Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:02 AM - Re: CJ-7 Pictures (Pete Fowler)
2. 09:08 AM - Re: Re: CJ-7 Pictures (Roger Kemp M.D.)
3. 10:04 AM - Sad day at Breckenridge TX (doug sapp)
4. 10:38 AM - Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX (Brian Lloyd)
5. 10:46 AM - CJ-6 shutters (JandEFinley@comcast.net)
6. 10:49 AM - Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX (Roger Kemp M.D.)
7. 01:14 PM - Re: CJ-6 shutters (Gary Gabbard)
8. 03:33 PM - Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX (Bill Geipel)
9. 04:12 PM - Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
10. 04:52 PM - Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX (bu131@swbell.net)
11. 06:12 PM - Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX (Brian Lloyd)
12. 07:57 PM - Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX (Invert)
13. 09:00 PM - Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
14. 09:12 PM - Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX (Randy)
15. 09:31 PM - Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX (Invert)
16. 11:23 PM - Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX (Cory Robin)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: CJ-7 Pictures |
UN-like the CJ-6, it's been widely known the CJ-7 is just a license-built Yak.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370088#370088
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: CJ-7 Pictures |
YAK 18 knock off. ;^))
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 5, 2012, at 9:58 AM, "Pete Fowler" <pfdesign1@cox.net> wrote:
>
> UN-like the CJ-6, it's been widely known the CJ-7 is just a license-built Yak.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370088#370088
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Sad day at Breckenridge TX |
http://www.reporternews.com/news/2012/apr/04/breckenridge-man-killed-in-wednesday-plane-crash/
Word on the street is that he was doing a roll on take off, done many times
before.
He was one of the war bird greats, he will be missed.
Doug
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX |
On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 10:01 AM, doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> http://www.reporternews.com/news/2012/apr/04/breckenridge-man-killed-in-wednesday-plane-crash/
>
> Word on the street is that he was doing a roll on take off, done many
> times before.
>
> He was one of the war bird greats, he will be missed.
>
Yes it is sad. But I must admit to being angered by the thought that he not
only killed himself but destroyed an irreplaceable aircraft by doing
unnecessary low-level aerobatics. I reminds me of the thing I repeatedly
tell my students:
"It is not that aviation is inherently unsafe, it is that it is terribly
unforgiving of mistakes."
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
Message 5
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I have a set of CJ shutters with inner ring and outer ring. They were removed when
I converted to
an M-14p. I can't vouch for condition or completeness but they are available for
the cost of shipping.
Pleasae contact me OFFLINE for particulars. John Finley
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX |
Sorry to hear this. Unfortunately, the PK of Terra Firma remains 1. Leave yo
urself an out when the situation turns to shit.
Sorry for the family and friends. The warbirds community has lost a great on
e.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 5, 2012, at 12:01 PM, doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.reporternews.com/news/2012/apr/04/breckenridge-man-killed-in-we
dnesday-plane-crash/
>
> Word on the street is that he was doing a roll on take off, done many time
s before.
>
> He was one of the war bird greats, he will be missed.
>
> Doug
>
>
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>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: CJ-6 shutters |
John. I'll take them. Gary. LAS
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 5, 2012, at 10:44, JandEFinley@comcast.net wrote:
> I have a set of CJ shutters with inner ring and outer ring. They were remo
ved when I converted to
>
> an M-14p. I can't vouch for condition or completeness but they are availab
le for the cost of shipping.
>
> Pleasae contact me OFFLINE for particulars. John Finley
>
>
>
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>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX |
That didn't take long.
Bill
On Apr 5, 2012, at 12:35 PM, Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 10:01 AM, doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.reporternews.com/news/2012/apr/04/breckenridge-man-killed-in-we
dnesday-plane-crash/
>
> Word on the street is that he was doing a roll on take off, done many time
s before.
>
> He was one of the war bird greats, he will be missed.
>
> Yes it is sad. But I must admit to being angered by the thought that he no
t only killed himself but destroyed an irreplaceable aircraft by doing unnec
essary low-level aerobatics. I reminds me of the thing I repeatedly tell my s
tudents:
>
> "It is not that aviation is inherently unsafe, it is that it is terribly u
nforgiving of mistakes."
>
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
> 3191 Western Dr.
> Cameron Park, CA 95682
> brian@lloyd.com
> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>
>
>
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>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Sad day at Breckenridge TX |
It is truly sad that a gentleman so in love with Aviation and with such
a tremendous background through multiple wars that included 11,000 hours
of flight time from Korea to Vietnam passed away in a crash. But if you
will read a little history on this gent, you will learn that he also
walked away from three other war bird crashes and kept at it. Ever
after his youngest daughter was lost in a crash, he kept on going.
He sure has my admiration. I am sorry that you are angered by the
thought that he not only killed himself, but destroyed an irreplaceable
aircraft Brian, but I have this nagging feeling that he really didn't
much care what your opinion was in the matter, and I have to admit,
neither do I. Some people really live life to the fullest, and that
oftentimes means doing things that others consider careless, reckless,
or dangerous. One of the greatest freedoms we can have in this country
is to make those decisions ourselves, although it is well known that
there will ALWAYS be those with 20/20 hindsight.
So be it.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 10:36
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX
On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 10:01 AM, doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com>
wrote:
http://www.reporternews.com/news/2012/apr/04/breckenridge-man-killed-in-
wednesday-plane-crash/
Word on the street is that he was doing a roll on take off, done
many times before.
He was one of the war bird greats, he will be missed.
Yes it is sad. But I must admit to being angered by the thought that he
not only killed himself but destroyed an irreplaceable aircraft by doing
unnecessary low-level aerobatics. I reminds me of the thing I repeatedly
tell my students:
"It is not that aviation is inherently unsafe, it is that it is terribly
unforgiving of mistakes."
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX |
Second it mark, howard had fun flying, I remember him from the old CAF real gentleman
good pilot too. He died the way I want to go, . More power to him, god
has a special place for old pilots like him
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sender: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX
It is truly sad that a gentleman so in love with Aviation and with such
a tremendous background through multiple wars that included 11,000 hours
of flight time from Korea to Vietnam passed away in a crash. But if you
will read a little history on this gent, you will learn that he also
walked away from three other war bird crashes and kept at it. Ever
after his youngest daughter was lost in a crash, he kept on going.
He sure has my admiration. I am sorry that you are angered by the
thought that he not only killed himself, but destroyed an irreplaceable
aircraft Brian, but I have this nagging feeling that he really didn't
much care what your opinion was in the matter, and I have to admit,
neither do I. Some people really live life to the fullest, and that
oftentimes means doing things that others consider careless, reckless,
or dangerous. One of the greatest freedoms we can have in this country
is to make those decisions ourselves, although it is well known that
there will ALWAYS be those with 20/20 hindsight.
So be it.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 10:36
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX
On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 10:01 AM, doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com>
wrote:
http://www.reporternews.com/news/2012/apr/04/breckenridge-man-killed-in-
wednesday-plane-crash/
Word on the street is that he was doing a roll on take off, done
many times before.
He was one of the war bird greats, he will be missed.
Yes it is sad. But I must admit to being angered by the thought that he
not only killed himself but destroyed an irreplaceable aircraft by doing
unnecessary low-level aerobatics. I reminds me of the thing I repeatedly
tell my students:
"It is not that aviation is inherently unsafe, it is that it is terribly
unforgiving of mistakes."
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX |
On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
> He sure has my admiration. I am sorry that you are angered by the
> thought that he not only killed himself, but destroyed an irreplaceable
> aircraft Brian, but I have this nagging feeling that he really didn't
> much care what your opinion was in the matter, and I have to admit,
> neither do I.
Whether you or he care for my opinion doesn't change the facts. The
airplane and the laws of physics don't care about anyone's opinion. But
three things are for sure: he's dead, the airplane is destroyed, and it
didn't have to happen.
There are so many things we HAVE to risk when we fly: weather, mechanical
failure, momentary lapses of skill, and plain old bad luck. We don't need
to intentionally make it worse. We stay alive and give aviation a good name
by exercising GOOD judgement.
> Some people really live life to the fullest, and that
> oftentimes means doing things that others consider careless, reckless,
> or dangerous. One of the greatest freedoms we can have in this country
> is to make those decisions ourselves, although it is well known that
> there will ALWAYS be those with 20/20 hindsight.
>
Oh, bullshit Mark. There is no 20/20 hindsight in this. We all know that
doing a roll on takeoff is both stupid and unnecessary. There is little
question in my mind that I could pull it off too ... until I don't. But it
is an unnecessary risk that gains no one anything ... well, actually, we
see what it gains.
The bottom line Mark is that there was no need. He was one hell of a Good
Ol' Boy but he did something stupid, killed himself, and destroyed an
irreplaceable aircraft. All he had to do was choose to exercise good
judgement and we would still be enjoying his company and enjoying that
aircraft. But he chose to exercise poor judgement. Period. That's is an
irrefutable fact.
Spin it however you want. Get pissed off at me for telling it like it is.
But let me repeat what I said above because what I am saying is 100% true:
- He is dead.
- The airplane is destroyed.
- It didn't have to happen.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX |
You are one callous individual Brian.
On 06/04/2012, at 11:09 AM, Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, M
ALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
> He sure has my admiration. I am sorry that you are angered by the
> thought that he not only killed himself, but destroyed an irreplaceable
> aircraft Brian, but I have this nagging feeling that he really didn't
> much care what your opinion was in the matter, and I have to admit,
> neither do I.
>
> Whether you or he care for my opinion doesn't change the facts. The airpla
ne and the laws of physics don't care about anyone's opinion. But three thin
gs are for sure: he's dead, the airplane is destroyed, and it didn't have to
happen.
>
> There are so many things we HAVE to risk when we fly: weather, mechanical f
ailure, momentary lapses of skill, and plain old bad luck. We don't need to i
ntentionally make it worse. We stay alive and give aviation a good name by e
xercising GOOD judgement.
>
> Some people really live life to the fullest, and that
> oftentimes means doing things that others consider careless, reckless,
> or dangerous. One of the greatest freedoms we can have in this country
> is to make those decisions ourselves, although it is well known that
> there will ALWAYS be those with 20/20 hindsight.
>
> Oh, bullshit Mark. There is no 20/20 hindsight in this. We all know that d
oing a roll on takeoff is both stupid and unnecessary. There is little quest
ion in my mind that I could pull it off too ... until I don't. But it is an u
nnecessary risk that gains no one anything ... well, actually, we see what i
t gains.
>
> The bottom line Mark is that there was no need. He was one hell of a Good O
l' Boy but he did something stupid, killed himself, and destroyed an irrepla
ceable aircraft. All he had to do was choose to exercise good judgement and w
e would still be enjoying his company and enjoying that aircraft. But he cho
se to exercise poor judgement. Period. That's is an irrefutable fact.
>
> Spin it however you want. Get pissed off at me for telling it like it is. B
ut let me repeat what I said above because what I am saying is 100% true:
> He is dead.
> The airplane is destroyed.
> It didn't have to happen.
> --
> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
> 3191 Western Dr.
> Cameron Park, CA 95682
> brian@lloyd.com
> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>
>
>
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=========
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Sad day at Breckenridge TX |
My common sense says to keep my mouth shut. My IQ says to keep my mouth shut.
However, the retired Marine in me insists I reply to this person. Above all,
I am a retired Marine. So here I go.
Here's a straw poll.
How many YAK List readers asked for Mr. Lloyds opinion on this pilots death?
How many Yak List readers needed another lecture from Mr. Lloyd on how smart he
is, and how dumb everyone else is?
How many Yak List readers feel that his comments are inappropriate, uncaring, show
no compassion for a dead pilots family or friends, are totally judgemental,
and are based purely on his constant belief that anything that comes out of
his mouth must be true?
Brian, take a hike. Again. Please. Your comments make me want to puke. I am
a retired service member, I have spent 42 years in service to my country, and
I am out here at Yuma Az. doing it again right now, and I do not think that
you have the slightest clue of what it means to show compassion and honor to the
service this man gave to YOUR country. To you, none of that matters.
Here's a big revelation for you. Sometimes the TRUTH does not matter. REALLY.
Sometimes it is about shutting your mouth and showing honor and respect for
others that deserve it. This is not saying that I admit to your interpretation
of "The Truth". Very simply, I do not. This is me telling you that you need
to shut your pie hole. You're a really great high school teacher. Let's
leave it at that. Now please DROP THIS and move on to some other topic.
Mark Bitterlich
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Thu 4/5/2012 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX
On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
He sure has my admiration. I am sorry that you are angered by the
thought that he not only killed himself, but destroyed an irreplaceable
aircraft Brian, but I have this nagging feeling that he really didn't
much care what your opinion was in the matter, and I have to admit,
neither do I.
Whether you or he care for my opinion doesn't change the facts. The airplane and
the laws of physics don't care about anyone's opinion. But three things are
for sure: he's dead, the airplane is destroyed, and it didn't have to happen.
There are so many things we HAVE to risk when we fly: weather, mechanical failure,
momentary lapses of skill, and plain old bad luck. We don't need to intentionally
make it worse. We stay alive and give aviation a good name by exercising
GOOD judgement.
Some people really live life to the fullest, and that
oftentimes means doing things that others consider careless, reckless,
or dangerous. One of the greatest freedoms we can have in this country
is to make those decisions ourselves, although it is well known that
there will ALWAYS be those with 20/20 hindsight.
Oh, bullshit Mark. There is no 20/20 hindsight in this. We all know that doing
a roll on takeoff is both stupid and unnecessary. There is little question in
my mind that I could pull it off too ... until I don't. But it is an unnecessary
risk that gains no one anything ... well, actually, we see what it gains.
The bottom line Mark is that there was no need. He was one hell of a Good Ol' Boy
but he did something stupid, killed himself, and destroyed an irreplaceable
aircraft. All he had to do was choose to exercise good judgement and we would
still be enjoying his company and enjoying that aircraft. But he chose to exercise
poor judgement. Period. That's is an irrefutable fact.
Spin it however you want. Get pissed off at me for telling it like it is. But let
me repeat what I said above because what I am saying is 100% true:
* He is dead.
* The airplane is destroyed.
* It didn't have to happen.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
Message 14
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| Subject: | Sad day at Breckenridge TX |
Brian's Comments:
The bottom line Mark is that there was no need. He was one hell of a Good
Ol' Boy but he did something stupid, killed himself, and destroyed an
irreplaceable aircraft. All he had to do was choose to exercise good
judgement and we would still be enjoying his company and enjoying that
aircraft. But he chose to exercise poor judgement. Period. That's is an
irrefutable fact.
Spin it however you want. Get pissed off at me for telling it like it is.
But let me repeat what I said above because what I am saying is 100% true:
* He is dead.
* The airplane is destroyed.
* It didn't have to happen.
Bear's Comments:
So Brian, you were there and saw the event?
Sorry, I have read some people's account for this. It doesn't mean that is
what occurred. While I don't like that a bearcat has been destroyed, I'm
more upset and a fellow pilot being dead. I'm glad the bearcat got to be
flown and seen by people. There are more than enough not flying in museums.
As to what occurred, we don't know yet. He might have lost an engine or
other mechanical failure, or he might have had a medical issue. Sitting
behind the screen and making comments about something that we don't have all
the facts on, is wrong.
He is dead,
The airplane is destroyed,
We don't have to comment on his actions unless we KNOW something. Period,
Irrefutable fact.
Bear
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX |
I mostly agree with Mark with the exception of the following:
"move on to some other topic"
It would be grateful if you could move on to another list.
On 06/04/2012, at 1:58 PM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
64E"<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
ALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> My common sense says to keep my mouth shut. My IQ says to keep my mouth s
hut. However, the retired Marine in me insists I reply to this person. Abo
ve all, I am a retired Marine. So here I go.
>
> Here's a straw poll.
>
> How many YAK List readers asked for Mr. Lloyds opinion on this pilots deat
h?
>
> How many Yak List readers needed another lecture from Mr. Lloyd on how sma
rt he is, and how dumb everyone else is?
>
> How many Yak List readers feel that his comments are inappropriate, uncari
ng, show no compassion for a dead pilots family or friends, are totally jud
gemental, and are based purely on his constant belief that anything that com
es out of his mouth must be true?
>
> Brian, take a hike. Again. Please. Your comments make me want to puke.
I am a retired service member, I have spent 42 years in service to my coun
try, and I am out here at Yuma Az. doing it again right now, and I do not th
ink that you have the slightest clue of what it means to show compassion and
honor to the service this man gave to YOUR country. To you, none of that m
atters.
>
> Here's a big revelation for you. Sometimes the TRUTH does not matter. RE
ALLY. Sometimes it is about shutting your mouth and showing honor and respe
ct for others that deserve it. This is not saying that I admit to your inte
rpretation of "The Truth". Very simply, I do not. This is me telling you t
hat you need to shut your pie hole. You're a really great high school teach
er. Let's leave it at that. Now please DROP THIS and move on to some ot
her topic.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Brian Lloyd
> Sent: Thu 4/5/2012 9:09 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, M
ALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
>
>
> He sure has my admiration. I am sorry that you are angered by the
> thought that he not only killed himself, but destroyed an irreplaceable
> aircraft Brian, but I have this nagging feeling that he really didn't
> much care what your opinion was in the matter, and I have to admit,
> neither do I.
>
>
> Whether you or he care for my opinion doesn't change the facts. The airpla
ne and the laws of physics don't care about anyone's opinion. But three thin
gs are for sure: he's dead, the airplane is destroyed, and it didn't have to
happen.
>
> There are so many things we HAVE to risk when we fly: weather, mechanical f
ailure, momentary lapses of skill, and plain old bad luck. We don't need to i
ntentionally make it worse. We stay alive and give aviation a good name by e
xercising GOOD judgement.
>
>
> Some people really live life to the fullest, and that
> oftentimes means doing things that others consider careless, reckless,
> or dangerous. One of the greatest freedoms we can have in this country
> is to make those decisions ourselves, although it is well known that
> there will ALWAYS be those with 20/20 hindsight.
>
>
>
> Oh, bullshit Mark. There is no 20/20 hindsight in this. We all know that d
oing a roll on takeoff is both stupid and unnecessary. There is little quest
ion in my mind that I could pull it off too ... until I don't. But it is an u
nnecessary risk that gains no one anything ... well, actually, we see what i
t gains.
>
> The bottom line Mark is that there was no need. He was one hell of a Good O
l' Boy but he did something stupid, killed himself, and destroyed an irrepla
ceable aircraft. All he had to do was choose to exercise good judgement and w
e would still be enjoying his company and enjoying that aircraft. But he cho
se to exercise poor judgement. Period. That's is an irrefutable fact.
>
> Spin it however you want. Get pissed off at me for telling it like it is. B
ut let me repeat what I said above because what I am saying is 100% true:
>
> * He is dead.
> * The airplane is destroyed.
> * It didn't have to happen.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
> 3191 Western Dr.
> Cameron Park, CA 95682
> brian@lloyd.com
> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX |
Honor heros, forget zeros.
Howard is a true legend. His legacy will echo throughout time and eternity.
Moving on...
Cory
PZL 104 Wilga'Beast'
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