Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:31 AM - Re: flying movie (Rico Jaeger)
2. 05:57 PM - Re: Tragic loss in Tx (ChangDriver)
3. 06:13 PM - Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX (Ron Davis)
4. 06:32 PM - Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX (Roger Kemp M.D.)
5. 07:40 PM - Flying (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
6. 08:21 PM - Re: Flying (Roger Kemp M.D.)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: flying movie |
Wow! Inspiring...yet oh so humbling! Not your average "stale"
documentary...very in-depth and compelling. Thanks for posting, Brian!!
On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com> wrote:
> I am sure many of you have seen this, but for those of you who haven't, it
> is worth watching. Nearly an hour long. Put your computer into full-screen
> mode and enjoy.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvtQ3g0ELuE
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
> 3191 Western Dr.
> Cameron Park, CA 95682
> brian@lloyd.com
> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Tragic loss in Tx |
While we may never know exactly what happened to Howard Pardue, I did discuss the
accident with a friend of his that flew a missing man with me this weekend.
He said that he'd be very surprised if Howard would ever do a low level roll
on takeoff. He said it would have been a medical or mechanical failure for him
to roll at such a low altitude. Howard had countless hours in that Bearcat
and knew it's performance envelope well.
Interesting too is I am told that his airplane was the prototype for the Bearcat
so it was the XF8F.
Here is his obit...
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/reporternews/obituary.aspx?n=howard-edwards-pardue&pid=156885590
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370324#370324
Message 3
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| Subject: | Sad day at Breckenridge TX |
It troubles me when someone says flying is a privilege. Driving is a 'priv
ilege' in most states=2C according to the statutes. Is riding a bicycle a
privilege? Was riding a horse a privilege when the constitution was writte
n or was a right? Is walking a privilege? What rights exactly do I have
as a free man if moving around is a privilege? I guess I have the right to
remain silent. Or at least will as soon as I'm arrested.
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX
From: hess737@aol.com
Guys=2C
It's a tragedy for sure for his family. Someone else said something today t
hat was right up my line of thinking. If there was a medical or mechanical
issue then we are all sorry for the loss. If it was an intentional maneuver
=2C then I worry every time that happens because like the F-18 crash today
=2C people on the ground can and do get hurt or killed. Military must fly.
Warbirds are not so needed. Our privileges are at risk with every such even
t. That alone is reason enough to be careful and make smart decisions.
Happy Easter to all...
Richard Hess
C 404-964-4885
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich=2C Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point=2C MALS-14 64E=2C MALS-14 6
4E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Fri=2C Apr 6=2C 2012 2:44 pm
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX
=2C
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
And with that ... I'm out of this thread. More comments from me only worse
n the
problem. Manners: When did we all lose them?
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@mat
ronics.com]
On Behalf Of Bitterlich=2C Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point=2C MALS-14 64E
Sent: Friday=2C April 06=2C 2012 12:05
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX
=2C
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Thanks John=2C
I am sure the family and friends of Mr. Pardue will be absolutely delighted
at
the lessons you have espoused at the cost of his death ... which you know
absolutely nothing about.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@mat
ronics.com]
On Behalf Of John Fischer
Sent: Friday=2C April 06=2C 2012 6:42
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX
Group=2C
First off=2C I would like to offer my condolences to Mr. Pardue's family an
d
friends.
I have seen him many times=2C at the Reno Air Races I have attended over th
e last
15+ years.
While we do not know what actually happened to Mr. Pardue (mechanical=2C me
dical=2C
mistake=2C ect...)=2C and will probably never know=2C there are still lesso
ns to be
learned. One lesson=2C is are low level aerobatics unnecessary (if practici
ng for
an airshow/or performing at one=2C with precautions=2C yes: if not=2C no!).
If we are going to be able to continue enjoying our aircraft (Yaks=2C Warbi
rds=2C
ect....)=2C we must learn from the mistakes of others and not make the same
mistakes.
Once upon a time there was someone on this form that did low level aerobati
cs in
their Yak-52.
His attitude was=2C it is my aircraft=2C and I will do as I please!
How would you feel if he crashed and made the local public mad=2C causing y
our
local airport to close? (it has happened)
The FAA limited your rights to fly (that was how we got the 300/600 mile li
mits
imposed).
This list goes on=2C and on=2C and on......
As a flight engineer on C-130's=2C there are several times=2C I had to stop
the
pilots from performing unauthorized (and non briefed)=2C maneuvers!
While there are risk involved in aviation=2C hopefully we are all taking ac
tion to
mitigate them on every flight we take.
Fly safe
John Fischer
Yak-52
L-5A
PT-19A
On 4/6/2012 5:58 AM=2C Bill Geipel wrote:
Really Brian ? U r actually trying to defend yourself?
Let's all just let this one go. Brian knows this is a no win argument=2C n
one
will agree with him.
Bill
On Apr 5=2C 2012=2C at 8:09 PM=2C Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com> wrote:
On Thu=2C Apr 5=2C 2012 at 4:09 PM=2C Bitterlich=2C Mark G CIV Det Cherry
Point=2C
MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
He sure has my admiration. I am sorry that you are angered by the
thought that he not only killed himself=2C but destroyed an irreplaceabl
e
aircraft Brian=2C but I have this nagging feeling that he really didn't
much care what your opinion was in the matter=2C and I have to admit=2C
neither do I.
Whether you or he care for my opinion doesn't change the facts. The airpl
ane
and the laws of physics don't care about anyone's opinion. But three things
are
for sure: he's dead=2C the airplane is destroyed=2C and it didn't have to h
appen.
There are so many things we HAVE to risk when we fly: weather=2C mechanic
al
failure=2C momentary lapses of skill=2C and plain old bad luck. We don't ne
ed to
intentionally make it worse. We stay alive and give aviation a good name by
exercising GOOD judgement.
Some people really live life to the fullest=2C and that
oftentimes means doing things that others consider careless=2C reckless
=2C
or dangerous. One of the greatest freedoms we can have in this country
is to make those decisions ourselves=2C although it is well known that
there will ALWAYS be those with 20/20 hindsight.
Oh=2C bullshit Mark. There is no 20/20 hindsight in this. We all know tha
t doing
a roll on takeoff is both stupid and unnecessary. There is little question
in my
mind that I could pull it off too ... until I don't. But it is an unnecessa
ry
risk that gains no one anything ... well=2C actually=2C we see what it gain
s.
The bottom line Mark is that there was no need. He was one hell of a Good
Ol'
Boy but he did something stupid=2C killed himself=2C and destroyed an irrep
laceable
aircraft. All he had to do was choose to exercise good judgement and we wou
ld
still be enjoying his company and enjoying that aircraft. But he chose to
exercise poor judgement. Period. That's is an irrefutable fact.
Spin it however you want. Get pissed off at me for telling it like it is.
But
let me repeat what I said above because what I am saying is 100% true:
* He is dead.
* The airplane is destroyed.
* It didn't have to happen.
--
Brian Lloyd=2C WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park=2C CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
href="3D%22http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List%22">http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="3D%22http://forums.matronics.com%22">http://forums.matronics.com
href="3D%22http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22">http://www.matroni
cs.com/contribution
et=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX |
Ron,
I understand how you feel. But, unless you have a huge farm and can stay in c
lass E airspace the entire time
Holding a certificate in the US is a privilege. As much as I hate say it, it
is a privilege.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 8, 2012, at 8:11 PM, Ron Davis <l39parts@hotmail.com> wrote:
> It troubles me when someone says flying is a privilege. Driving is a 'pri
vilege' in most states, according to the statutes. Is riding a bicycle a pr
ivilege? Was riding a horse a privilege when the constitution was written o
r was a right? Is walking a privilege? What rights exactly do I have as a
free man if moving around is a privilege? I guess I have the right to rema
in silent. Or at least will as soon as I'm arrested.
>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX
> From: hess737@aol.com
> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 16:05:10 -0400
>
> Guys,
> It's a tragedy for sure for his family. Someone else said something today t
hat was right up my line of thinking. If there was a medical or mechanical i
ssue then we are all sorry for the loss. If it was an intentional maneuver, t
hen I worry every time that happens because like the F-18 crash today, peopl
e on the ground can and do get hurt or killed. Military must fly. Warbirds a
re not so needed. Our privileges are at risk with every such event. That alo
ne is reason enough to be careful and make smart decisions.
>
> Happy Easter to all...
> Richard Hess
> C 404-964-4885
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E, MALS-14 64E <m
ark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> To: yak-list <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Fri, Apr 6, 2012 2:44 pm
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX
>
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> And with that ... I'm out of this thread. More comments from me only wors
en the
> problem. Manners: When did we all lose them?
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@ma
tronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 12:05
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX
>
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Thanks John,
>
> I am sure the family and friends of Mr. Pardue will be absolutely delighte
d at
> the lessons you have espoused at the cost of his death ... which you know
> absolutely nothing about.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@ma
tronics.com]
> On Behalf Of John Fischer
> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 6:42
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX
>
> Group,
>
> First off, I would like to offer my condolences to Mr. Pardue's family and
> friends.
> I have seen him many times, at the Reno Air Races I have attended over the
last
> 15+ years.
>
> While we do not know what actually happened to Mr. Pardue (mechanical, med
ical,
> mistake, ect...), and will probably never know, there are still lessons to
be
> learned. One lesson, is are low level aerobatics unnecessary (if practicin
g for
> an airshow/or performing at one, with precautions, yes: if not, no!).
>
> If we are going to be able to continue enjoying our aircraft (Yaks, Warbir
ds,
> ect....), we must learn from the mistakes of others and not make the same
> mistakes.
>
> Once upon a time there was someone on this form that did low level aerobat
ics in
> their Yak-52.
> His attitude was, it is my aircraft, and I will do as I please!
> How would you feel if he crashed and made the local public mad, causing yo
ur
> local airport to close? (it has happened)
> The FAA limited your rights to fly (that was how we got the 300/600 mile l
imits
> imposed).
> This list goes on, and on, and on......
>
> As a flight engineer on C-130's, there are several times, I had to stop th
e
> pilots from performing unauthorized (and non briefed), maneuvers!
> While there are risk involved in aviation, hopefully we are all taking act
ion to
> mitigate them on every flight we take.
>
> Fly safe
> John Fischer
> Yak-52
> L-5A
> PT-19A
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4/6/2012 5:58 AM, Bill Geipel wrote:
>
> Really Brian ? U r actually trying to defend yourself?
> Let's all just let this one go. Brian knows this is a no win argume
nt, none
> will agree with him.
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> On Apr 5, 2012, at 8:09 PM, Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det C
herry Point,
> MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
>
>
> He sure has my admiration. I am sorry that you are
angered by the
> thought that he not only killed himself, but destro
yed an irreplaceable
> aircraft Brian, but I have this nagging feeling tha
t he really didn't
> much care what your opinion was in the matter, and I
have to admit,
> neither do I.
>
>
> Whether you or he care for my opinion doesn't change the fa
cts. The airplane
> and the laws of physics don't care about anyone's opinion. But three thing
s are
> for sure: he's dead, the airplane is destroyed, and it didn't have to happ
en.
>
> There are so many things we HAVE to risk when we fly: weath
er, mechanical
> failure, momentary lapses of skill, and plain old bad luck. We don't need t
o
> intentionally make it worse. We stay alive and give aviation a good name b
y
> exercising GOOD judgement.
>
>
>
>
> Some people really live life to the fullest, and th
at
> oftentimes means doing things that others consider c
areless, reckless,
> or dangerous. One of the greatest freedoms we can h
ave in this country
> is to make those decisions ourselves, although it i
s well known that
> there will ALWAYS be those with 20/20 hindsight.
>
>
>
> Oh, bullshit Mark. There is no 20/20 hindsight in this. We a
ll know that doing
> a roll on takeoff is both stupid and unnecessary. There is little question
in my
> mind that I could pull it off too ... until I don't. But it is an unnecess
ary
> risk that gains no one anything ... well, actually, we see what it gains.
>
> The bottom line Mark is that there was no need. He was one h
ell of a Good Ol'
> Boy but he did something stupid, killed himself, and destroyed an irreplac
eable
> aircraft. All he had to do was choose to exercise good judgement and we wo
uld
> still be enjoying his company and enjoying that aircraft. But he chose to
> exercise poor judgement. Period. That's is an irrefutable fact.
>
> Spin it however you want. Get pissed off at me for telling i
t like it is. But
> let me repeat what I said above because what I am saying is 100% true:
>
> * He is dead.
> * The airplane is destroyed.
> * It didn't have to happen.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
> 3191 Western Dr.
> Cameron Park, CA 95682
> brian@lloyd.com
> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> href="3D%22http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List%22">http:
//www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="3D%22http://forums.matronics.com%22">http://forums.matroni
cs.com
> href="3D%22http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22">http://www.
matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> et=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
> rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 5
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Hey Doc. Notice the difference in wording between what he said and what you said?
Might seem insignificant but it really is not.
There are a large number of people in this country that fly without a "certificate".
That probably will trouble a LOT of people but it is never-the-less a fact.
And if they are smart... they are actually pretty difficult to catch. If they
are smart AND have money, you can pretty much forget it.
Scary thought that you might be sharing the skys with an unlicensed driver huh?
:-)
Mark
________________________________
Roger Kemp M.D.
Holding a certificate in the US is a privilege. As much as I hate say it, it is
a privilege.
Doc
On Apr 8, 2012, at 8:11 PM, Ron Davis <l39parts@hotmail.com> wrote:
It troubles me when someone says flying is a privilege.
Message 6
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Roger. Have known of one of those. FAA could not do a thing about it because he
flew over his own farm and forest lands without ever broaching an airway or entering
class E airspace. He remained in class G airspace the entire time while
he surveyed his cattle and forest land. Was A WW II pilot that bought a surplus
T6 after the war. He is deceased now of natural causes associated with old
age.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 8, 2012, at 9:36 PM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
>
> Hey Doc. Notice the difference in wording between what he said and what you
said? Might seem insignificant but it really is not.
>
> There are a large number of people in this country that fly without a "certificate".
That probably will trouble a LOT of people but it is never-the-less a
fact.
> a
> And if they are smart... they are actually pretty difficult to catch. If they
are smart AND have money, you can pretty much forget it.
>
> Scary thought that you might be sharing the skys with an unlicensed driver huh?
>
> :-)
>
> Mark
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Roger Kemp M.D.
>
> Holding a certificate in the US is a privilege. As much as I hate say it, it
is a privilege.
> Doc
>
>
> On Apr 8, 2012, at 8:11 PM, Ron Davis <l39parts@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> It troubles me when someone says flying is a privilege.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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