Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:47 AM - Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX (cjpilot710@aol.com)
2. 07:01 AM - Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX (bill wade)
3. 12:07 PM - Howard Pardue - NTSB Prelim (ChangDriver)
4. 07:35 PM - Re: CJ-7 Pictures (Pete Fowler)
5. 09:51 PM - Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
6. 10:02 PM - Re: Howard Pardue - NTSB Prelim (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
7. 10:15 PM - Re: Yak-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 04/08/12 (Norman Davis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX |
Read the government license in your pocket. Its one reason to keep
government small. They assume control. But once you've learned something
(anything) no man or government can take knowledge away from you. Freedom starts
from knowledge. (I never knew one of the best pilots I ever knew, never
had a pilots license, until the day we buried him after he quietly passed in
his sleep at 80 plus years)
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 4/8/2012 9:13:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
l39parts@hotmail.com writes:
It troubles me when someone says flying is a privilege. Driving is a
'privilege' in most states, according to the statutes. Is riding a bicycle a
privilege? Was riding a horse a privilege when the constitution was written
or was a right? Is walking a privilege? What rights exactly do I have
as a free man if moving around is a privilege? I guess I have the right to
remain silent. Or at least will as soon as I'm arrested.
____________________________________
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX
From: hess737@aol.com
Guys,
It's a tragedy for sure for his family. Someone else said something today
that was right up my line of thinking. If there was a medical or mechanical
issue then we are all sorry for the loss. If it was an intentional
maneuver, then I worry every time that happens because like the F-18 crash today,
people on the ground can and do get hurt or killed. Military must fly.
Warbirds are not so needed. Our privileges are at risk with every such event.
That alone is reason enough to be careful and make smart decisions.
Happy Easter to all...
Richard Hess
C 404-964-4885
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E, MALS-14 64E
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Fri, Apr 6, 2012 2:44 pm
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX
MALS-14 64E" <_mark.bitterlich@navy.mil_ (mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil) >
And with that ... I'm out of this thread. More comments from me only
worsen the
problem. Manners: When did we all lose them?
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: _owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com) [_mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com?) ]
On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 12:05
To: _yak-list@matronics.com_ (mailto:yak-list@matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX
MALS-14 64E" <_mark.bitterlich@navy.mil_ (mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil)
>
Thanks John,
I am sure the family and friends of Mr. Pardue will be absolutely
delighted at
the lessons you have espoused at the cost of his death ... which you know
absolutely nothing about.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: _owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com) [_mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com?) ]
On Behalf Of John Fischer
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 6:42
To: _yak-list@matronics.com_ (mailto:yak-list@matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX
Group,
First off, I would like to offer my condolences to Mr. Pardue's family and
friends.
I have seen him many times, at the Reno Air Races I have attended over the
last
15+ years.
While we do not know what actually happened to Mr. Pardue (mechanical,
medical,
mistake, ect...), and will probably never know, there are still lessons to
be
learned. One lesson, is are low level aerobatics unnecessary (if
practicing for
an airshow/or performing at one, with precautions, yes: if not, no!).
If we are going to be able to continue enjoying our aircraft (Yaks,
Warbirds,
ect....), we must learn from the mistakes of others and not make the same
mistakes.
Once upon a time there was someone on this form that did low level
aerobatics in
their Yak-52.
His attitude was, it is my aircraft, and I will do as I please!
How would you feel if he crashed and made the local public mad, causing
your
local airport to close? (it has happened)
The FAA limited your rights to fly (that was how we got the 300/600 mile
limits
imposed).
This list goes on, and on, and on......
As a flight engineer on C-130's, there are several times, I had to stop
the
pilots from performing unauthorized (and non briefed), maneuvers!
While there are risk involved in aviation, hopefully we are all taking
action to
mitigate them on every flight we take.
Fly safe
John Fischer
Yak-52
L-5A
PT-19A
On 4/6/2012 5:58 AM, Bill Geipel wrote:
Really Brian ? U r actually trying to defend yourself?
Let's all just let this one go. Brian knows this is a no win argument,
none
will agree with him.
Bill
On Apr 5, 2012, at 8:09 PM, Brian Lloyd <_brian@lloyd.com_
(mailto:brian@lloyd.com) > wrote:
On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry
Point,
MALS-14 64E <_mark.bitterlich@navy.mil_ (mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil)
> wrote:
He sure has my admiration. I am sorry that you are angered by
the
thought that he not only killed himself, but destroyed an
irreplaceable
aircraft Brian, but I have this nagging feeling that he really
didn't
much care what your opinion was in the matter, and I have to
admit,
neither do I.
Whether you or he care for my opinion doesn't change the facts. The
airplane
and the laws of physics don't care about anyone's opinion. But three
things are
for sure: he's dead, the airplane is destroyed, and it didn't have to
happen.
There are so many things we HAVE to risk when we fly: weather,
mechanical
failure, momentary lapses of skill, and plain old bad luck. We don't need
to
intentionally make it worse. We stay alive and give aviation a good name
by
exercising GOOD judgement.
Some people really live life to the fullest, and that
oftentimes means doing things that others consider careless,
reckless,
or dangerous. One of the greatest freedoms we can have in this
country
is to make those decisions ourselves, although it is well known
that
there will ALWAYS be those with 20/20 hindsight.
Oh, bullshit Mark. There is no 20/20 hindsight in this. We all know
that doing
a roll on takeoff is both stupid and unnecessary. There is little question
in my
mind that I could pull it off too ... until I don't. But it is an
unnecessary
risk that gains no one anything ... well, actually, we see what it gains.
The bottom line Mark is that there was no need. He was one hell of
a Good Ol'
Boy but he did something stupid, killed himself, and destroyed an
irreplaceable
aircraft. All he had to do was choose to exercise good judgement and we
would
still be enjoying his company and enjoying that aircraft. But he chose to
exercise poor judgement. Period. That's is an irrefutable fact.
Spin it however you want. Get pissed off at me for telling it like
it is. But
let me repeat what I said above because what I am saying is 100% true:
* He is dead.
* The airplane is destroyed.
* It didn't have to happen.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
_brian@lloyd.com_ (mailto:brian@lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
href="3D%22http://_www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List%22_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List")
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href="3D%22http://_www.matronics.com/contribution%22_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution") ">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX |
I've started a free course on the United States Constitution being put out
by Hillsdale Collage and found it very enlightening. Currently trying to fi
nd out who we the people are if it turns out to be - you - me - us might wa
nt to keep our skills sharp cuss big government is way out of control accor
ding to our founding fathers and special skills might be needed to turn it
around.=0ABill Wade=0A=C2-=0A=0AIn the Q&A session for Week Seven,
=9CCrisis of Constitutional Government,=9D Dr. Will Morrisey explores
the proper constitutional response to =9Cjudicial activism,=9D
the moral relationship between slavery and abortion, the striking parallel
s between the sectional dilemma and our modern crisis, and how the Founders
dealt with the tension between slavery and equality.=0A=0AThese questions
are selected from those submitted by you, the participants in this course.
Thank you to all who submitted questions via email, Facebook, and Twitter!
=0A=0ATo view this session and access the lecture, readings, study guide, a
nd quiz for Week Seven, please:=0A=0A=A2 Go to hillsdale.edu/const
itution=0A=A2 Click the "Sign In" button at the top of the page=0A
=A2 Enter your email address in the space provided=0A=A2
Click =9CCrisis of Constitutional Government=9D =0A=A2
Select the "Q&A Session" tab along the left side of the page=0A=0APlease e
mail constitution@hillsdale.edu with any questions you may have =0A=0A_____
___________________________=0A From: "cjpilot710@aol.com" <cjpilot710@aol.c
om>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, April 9, 2012 8:44 AM=0AS
ubject: Re: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX=0A =0A=0ARead the governm
ent license in your pocket.=C2- Its one reason to keep =0Agovernment smal
l.=C2- They assume control.=C2- But once you've learned =0Asomething (a
nything) no man or government can take knowledge away from =0Ayou.=C2- Fr
eedom starts from knowledge.=C2- (I never knew one of the best =0Apilots
I ever knew, never had a pilots license, until the day we buried him =0Aaft
er he quietly passed in his sleep at 80 plus years)=C2- =0A=0AJim "Pappy"
Goolsby =0A=0AIn a message dated 4/8/2012 9:13:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Ti
me, =0Al39parts@hotmail.com writes: =0AIt troubles me when someone says fly
ing is a privilege.=C2- Driving is a 'privilege' in most states, accordi
ng to the statutes.=C2-=C2-Is riding a=C2-bicycle a privilege?=C2-
Was riding a horse a privilege when the=C2-constitution was written or
was a right?=C2- Is walking a privilege?=C2-=C2- What rights exactly
do I have as a free man if moving around is a privilege?=C2- I guess I
have the right to remain silent.=C2- Or at least=C2-will as soon as I'
m arrested.=0A>=C2-=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>________________________________=0A>
=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0A>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenr
idge =0A TX=0A>From: hess737@aol.com=0A>Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 16:05:10 =0A
-0400=0A>=0A>Guys, =0A>It's a tragedy for sure for his family. Someone el
se said something today that was right up my line of thinking. If there wa
s a medical or mechanical issue then we are all sorry for the loss. If it
was an intentional maneuver, then I worry every time that happens because
like the F-18 crash today, people on the ground can and do get hurt or kil
led. Military must fly. Warbirds are not so needed. Our privileges are at
risk with every such event. That alone is reason enough to be careful and
make smart decisions. =0A>=0A>Happy Easter to all...=0A> =0A>Richard Hess
=0A>C 404-964-4885=0A>=0A>=0A>-----Original Message-----=0A>From: Bitterli
ch, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E, =0A MALS-14 64E <mark.bitter
lich@navy.mil>=0A>To: yak-list =0A <yak-list@matronics.com>=0A>Sent: Fri,
Apr 6, 2012 2:44 pm=0A>Subject: =0A RE: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge
herry Point, =0AMALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> And with that ... I
'm out of this thread. More comments from me only worsen the =0Aproblem.
Manners: When did we all lose them? Mark Bitterlich -----Original Message
-----=0AFrom: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-se
rver@matronics.com] =0AOn Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point
, MALS-14 64E=0ASent: Friday, April 06, 2012 12:05=0ATo: yak-list@matronics
.com Subject: RE: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX --> Yak-List message
posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, =0AMALS-14 64E" <mark
.bitterlich@navy.mil> Thanks John, I am sure the family and friends of Mr.
Pardue will be absolutely delighted at =0Athe lessons you have espoused at
the cost of his death ... which you know =0Aabsolutely nothing about. Ma
rk Bitterlich -----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-yak-list-server@matr
onics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] =0AOn Behalf Of John
Fischer=0ASent: Friday, April 06, 2012 6:42=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com S
ubject: Re: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX Group, First off, I would
like to offer my condolences to Mr. Pardue's family and =0Afriends.=0AI hav
e seen him many times, at the Reno Air Races I have attended over the last
=0A15+ years. While we do not know what actually happened to Mr. Pardue (me
chanical, medical, =0Amistake, ect...), and will probably never know, there
are still lessons to be =0Alearned. One lesson, is are low level aerobatic
s unnecessary (if practicing for =0Aan airshow/or performing at one, with p
recautions, yes: if not, no!). If we are going to be able to continue enjoy
ing our aircraft (Yaks, Warbirds, =0Aect....), we must learn from the mista
kes of others and not make the same =0Amistakes. Once upon a time there was
someone on this form that did low level aerobatics in =0Atheir Yak-52.=0AH
is attitude was, it is my aircraft, and I will do as I please!=0AHow would
you feel if he crashed and made the local public mad, causing your =0Alocal
airport to close? (it has happened)=0AThe FAA limited your rights to fly (
that was how we got the 300/600 mile limits =0Aimposed).=0AThis list goes o
n, and on, and on...... As a flight engineer on C-130's, there are several
times, I had to stop the =0Apilots from performing unauthorized (and non b
riefed), maneuvers!=0AWhile there are risk involved in aviation, hopefully
we are all taking action to =0Amitigate them on every flight we take. Fly s
afe=0AJohn Fischer=0AYak-52=0AL-5A=0APT-19A On 4/6/2012 5:58 AM, Bill Geipe
l wrote: Really Brian ? U r actually trying to defend yourself? Let's all
just let this one go. Brian knows this is a no win argument, none =0Awill
agree with him. Bill On Apr 5, 2012, at 8:09 PM, Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.
com> wrote: On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cher
ry Point, =0AMALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote: He sure has my a
dmiration. I am sorry that you are angered by the thought that he not only
killed himself, but destroyed an irreplaceable aircraft Brian, but I have
this nagging feeling that he really didn't much care what your opinion was
in the matter, and I have to admit, neither do I. Whether you or he care
for my opinion doesn't change the facts. The airplane =0Aand the laws of ph
ysics don't care about anyone's opinion. But three things are =0Afor sure:
he's dead, the airplane is destroyed, and it didn't have to happen. There a
re so many things we HAVE to risk when we fly: weather, mechanical =0Afailu
re, momentary lapses of skill, and plain old bad luck. We don't need to =0A
intentionally make it worse. We stay alive and give aviation a good name by
=0Aexercising GOOD judgement. Some people really live life to the fullest,
and that oftentimes means doing things that others consider careless, reck
less, or dangerous. One of the greatest freedoms we can have in this count
ry is to make those decisions ourselves, although it is well known that the
re will ALWAYS be those with 20/20 hindsight. Oh, bullshit Mark. There is n
o 20/20 hindsight in this. We all know that doing =0Aa roll on takeoff is b
oth stupid and unnecessary. There is little question in my =0Amind that I c
ould pull it off too ... until I don't. But it is an unnecessary =0Arisk th
at gains no one anything ... well, actually, we see what it gains. The bott
om line Mark is that there was no need. He was one hell of a Good Ol' =0ABo
y but he did something stupid, killed himself, and destroyed an irreplaceab
le =0Aaircraft. All he had to do was choose to exercise good judgement and
we would =0Astill be enjoying his company and enjoying that aircraft. But h
e chose to =0Aexercise poor judgement. Period. That's is an irrefutable fac
t. Spin it however you want. Get pissed off at me for telling it like it is
. But =0Alet me repeat what I said above because what I am saying is 100% t
rue: * He is dead. * The airplane is destroyed. * It didn't have to h
appen. -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 956
82 brian@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) href=
"3D%22http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List%22">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Yak-List href="3D%22http://forums.matronics.com%22">http://
forums.matronics.com href="3D%22http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22"
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution et=_blank>http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Yak-List=0Ap://forums.matronics.com=0Ablank>http://www.matronics
.com/contribution =0A>rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-
List=0Attp://forums.matronics.com=0A=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/cont
ribution =0A>="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List=0As.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.
com=0Ap://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribu
==============
Message 3
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| Subject: | Howard Pardue - NTSB Prelim |
NTSB Identification: CEN12LA227
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation Accident occurred Wednesday, April 04, 2012 in
Breckenridge, TX Aircraft: Grumman F8F-1, registration: N14HP Injuries: 1 Fatal.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any
errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On April 4, 2012, at 1410 central daylight time, a Grumman model F8F-1 airplane,
N14HP, was substantially damaged when it collided with terrain during
a low-altitude aerobatic maneuver performed shortly after takeoff from Stephens
County Airport (KBKD), Breckenridge, Texas. A postimpact fire ensued. The commercial
pilot was fatally injured. The airplane was registered to and operated
by Breckenridge Aviation Museum, under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal
Regulations Part 91 without a flight plan. Day visual meteorological conditions
prevailed for the personal flight that was originating at the time of the accident.
A witness to the accident reported that he was in his airplane preparing to depart
when the accident airplane was taxiing toward runway
17. He told the accident pilot, via radio, that he wanted to watch the accident
airplane takeoff ahead of him. The accident pilot reportedly announced over the
radio that he was going to perform a Half Cuban Eight aerobatic maneuver after
takeoff and then overfly the runway in the opposite direction. The witness
stated that after liftoff the accident airplane climbed 100 to 200 feet in a
shallow climb before it pitched-up into a near vertical climb. The airplane continued
the climb in an inside loop before leveling out, inverted, about 500 feet
above the runway heading the opposite direction of the takeoff. The witness
then saw the airplane's wings roll suddenly before the airplane entered a near
vertical descent. The witness described the final portion of the aerobatic
maneuver as a split-S maneuver, or a descending half loop, from which the airplane
was unable to recover before colliding with terrain on a southeasterly heading.
The witness stated that there was an explosion when the airplane collided
with terrain and that a postimpact fire ensued.
At 1415, the airport's automated surface observing system reported the following
weather conditions: wind 280 degrees at 8 knots; clear skies; visibility 10
miles; temperature 21 degrees Celsius; dew point 07 degrees Celsius; altimeter
setting 29.88 inches of mercury.
And this is what Howard usually performed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BURpV8FxE38
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370390#370390
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: CJ-7 Pictures |
Though I'm SURE you're kidding, because everyone knows the CJ-6 is not a Yak 18
copy, knockoff. or relative...but because the mistake persists, here's a good
book on the subject.
My favorite quote: "The Yak-18A was duly studied by the design office of the Shenyang
Aircraft Factory and rejected as outdated. The reason was that the new
model retained the basic airframe structure of the Yak-18...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/36078486/Chinese-Aircraft
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370416#370416
Message 5
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| Subject: | Sad day at Breckenridge TX |
Imagine that.
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Mon 4/9/2012 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX
Read the government license in your pocket. Its one reason to keep government
small. They assume control. But once you've learned something (anything) no
man or government can take knowledge away from you. Freedom starts from knowledge.
(I never knew one of the best pilots I ever knew, never had a pilots license,
until the day we buried him after he quietly passed in his sleep at 80
plus years)
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 4/8/2012 9:13:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, l39parts@hotmail.com
writes:
It troubles me when someone says flying is a privilege. Driving is a 'privilege'
in most states, according to the statutes. Is riding a bicycle a privilege?
Was riding a horse a privilege when the constitution was written or was a
right? Is walking a privilege? What rights exactly do I have as a free man
if moving around is a privilege? I guess I have the right to remain silent.
Or at least will as soon as I'm arrested.
________________________________
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX
From: hess737@aol.com
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 16:05:10 -0400
Guys,
It's a tragedy for sure for his family. Someone else said something today that
was right up my line of thinking. If there was a medical or mechanical issue
then we are all sorry for the loss. If it was an intentional maneuver, then I
worry every time that happens because like the F-18 crash today, people on the
ground can and do get hurt or killed. Military must fly. Warbirds are not so
needed. Our privileges are at risk with every such event. That alone is reason
enough to be careful and make smart decisions.
Happy Easter to all...
Richard Hess
C 404-964-4885
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
To: yak-list <yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Fri, Apr 6, 2012 2:44 pm
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
And with that ... I'm out of this thread. More comments from me only worsen the
problem. Manners: When did we all lose them?
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com?> ]
On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 12:05
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Thanks John,
I am sure the family and friends of Mr. Pardue will be absolutely delighted at
the lessons you have espoused at the cost of his death ... which you know
absolutely nothing about.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com?> ]
On Behalf Of John Fischer
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 6:42
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX
Group,
First off, I would like to offer my condolences to Mr. Pardue's family and
friends.
I have seen him many times, at the Reno Air Races I have attended over the last
15+ years.
While we do not know what actually happened to Mr. Pardue (mechanical, medical,
mistake, ect...), and will probably never know, there are still lessons to be
learned. One lesson, is are low level aerobatics unnecessary (if practicing for
an airshow/or performing at one, with precautions, yes: if not, no!).
If we are going to be able to continue enjoying our aircraft (Yaks, Warbirds,
ect....), we must learn from the mistakes of others and not make the same
mistakes.
Once upon a time there was someone on this form that did low level aerobatics
in
their Yak-52.
His attitude was, it is my aircraft, and I will do as I please!
How would you feel if he crashed and made the local public mad, causing your
local airport to close? (it has happened)
The FAA limited your rights to fly (that was how we got the 300/600 mile limits
imposed).
This list goes on, and on, and on......
As a flight engineer on C-130's, there are several times, I had to stop the
pilots from performing unauthorized (and non briefed), maneuvers!
While there are risk involved in aviation, hopefully we are all taking action
to
mitigate them on every flight we take.
Fly safe
John Fischer
Yak-52
L-5A
PT-19A
On 4/6/2012 5:58 AM, Bill Geipel wrote:
Really Brian ? U r actually trying to defend yourself?
Let's all just let this one go. Brian knows this is a no win argument, none
will agree with him.
Bill
On Apr 5, 2012, at 8:09 PM, Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com> wrote:
On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
He sure has my admiration. I am sorry that you are angered by the
thought that he not only killed himself, but destroyed an irreplaceable
aircraft Brian, but I have this nagging feeling that he really didn't
much care what your opinion was in the matter, and I have to admit,
neither do I.
Whether you or he care for my opinion doesn't change the facts. The airplane
and the laws of physics don't care about anyone's opinion. But three things are
for sure: he's dead, the airplane is destroyed, and it didn't have to happen.
There are so many things we HAVE to risk when we fly: weather, mechanical
failure, momentary lapses of skill, and plain old bad luck. We don't need to
intentionally make it worse. We stay alive and give aviation a good name by
exercising GOOD judgement.
Some people really live life to the fullest, and that
oftentimes means doing things that others consider careless, reckless,
or dangerous. One of the greatest freedoms we can have in this country
is to make those decisions ourselves, although it is well known that
there will ALWAYS be those with 20/20 hindsight.
Oh, bullshit Mark. There is no 20/20 hindsight in this. We all know that
doing
a roll on takeoff is both stupid and unnecessary. There is little question in
my
mind that I could pull it off too ... until I don't. But it is an unnecessary
risk that gains no one anything ... well, actually, we see what it gains.
The bottom line Mark is that there was no need. He was one hell of a Good
Ol'
Boy but he did something stupid, killed himself, and destroyed an irreplaceable
aircraft. All he had to do was choose to exercise good judgement and we would
still be enjoying his company and enjoying that aircraft. But he chose to
exercise poor judgement. Period. That's is an irrefutable fact.
Spin it however you want. Get pissed off at me for telling it like it
is. But
let me repeat what I said above because what I am saying is 100% true:
* He is dead.
* The airplane is destroyed.
* It didn't have to happen.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
href="3D%22http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List%22">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="3D%22http://forums.matronics.com%22">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
href="3D%22http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
et=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Subject: | Howard Pardue - NTSB Prelim |
>>14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation Accident occurred Wednesday, April 04, 2012
in Breckenridge, TX Aircraft: Grumman F8F-1, registration: N14HP Injuries: 1 Fatal.
>>This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any
errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
Enough said.
Mark Bitterlich
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 04/08/12 |
Re the recent tragic Bearcat accident. I can remember witnessing the crash
on take off of a T-28 in 1957 at Whiting Field.=0A=0AIt turned out that the
aircraft had just been maintained and the flight was a maintenance test fl
ight. The ailerons had been rigged wrong. As a result, when the pilot attem
pted to level wings his control inputs were reversed. There just wasn't eno
ugh altitude for him to realize it and use opposite aileron.-=0A=0AEver s
ince then I instruct students to make sure all control surfaces move correc
tly in the proper sense during pre take off checks.=0A=0AThere is no way an
yone will truly know what happened until the investigation is complete.=0A
=0AIt's too damned bad it takes so long.=0A=0ACondolences to the family.=0A
=0ANorm Davis CDR USN ret.=0A=0A>________________________________=0A> From:
Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>=0A>To: Yak-List Digest Lis
t <yak-list-digest@matronics.com> =0A>Sent: Monday, 9 April 2012 7:00 PM=0A
>Subject: Yak-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 04/08/12=0A> =0A>*=0A>=0A>====
======================0A>- Onl
ine Versions of Today's List Digest Archive=0A>=========
=================0A>=0A>Today's complete Ya
k-List Digest can also be found in either of the =0A>two Web Links listed b
elow.- The .html file includes the Digest formatted =0A>in HTML for viewi
ng with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes =0A>and Message Navi
gation.- The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version =0A>of the Yak-Li
st Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor =0A>such as Notepad
or with a web browser. =0A>=0A>HTML Version:=0A>=0A>- - http://www.matr
onics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 12-04
-08&Archive=Yak=0A>=0A>Text Version:=0A>=0A>- - http://www.matronics.
com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 12-04-08&Arc
hive=Yak=0A>=0A>=0A>=================
=======0A>- EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive=0A>
========================0A>
=0A>=0A>- - - - - ----------------------------------------------
------------=0A>- - - - - - - - - - - - - Yak-Li
st Digest Archive=0A>- - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - ---=0A>- - - - - - - - - - Tot
al Messages Posted Sun 04/08/12: 6=0A>- - - - - ----------------
------------------------------------------=0A>=0A>=0A>Today's Message Index
:=0A>----------------------=0A>=0A>- - 1. 09:31 AM - Re: flying movie
- (Rico Jaeger)=0A>- - 2. 05:57 PM - Re: Tragic loss in Tx- (Chang
Driver)=0A>- - 3. 06:13 PM - Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX- (Ron Da
vis)=0A>- - 4. 06:32 PM - Re: Sad day at Breckenridge TX- (Roger Kem
p M.D.)=0A>- - 5. 07:40 PM - Flying- (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Che
rry Point, MALS-14 64E)=0A>- - 6. 08:21 PM - Re: Flying- (Roger Kemp
M.D.)=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>________________________________- Message 1- ____
_________________________________=0A>=0A>=0A>Time: 09:31:39 AM PST US=0A>Su
bject: Re: Yak-List: flying movie=0A>From: Rico Jaeger <rijaeger@wausau.k12
..wi.us>=0A>=0A>Wow! Inspiring...yet oh so humbling! Not your average "stale
"=0A>documentary...very in-depth and compelling. Thanks for posting, Brian!
!=0A>=0A>On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com> wrot
e:=0A>=0A>> I am sure many of you have seen this, but for those of you who
haven't, it=0A>> is worth watching. Nearly an hour long. Put your computer
into full-screen=0A>> mode and enjoy.=0A>>=0A>> http://www.youtube.com/watc
h?v=RvtQ3g0ELuE=0A>>=0A>> --=0A>> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL=0A>> 3191 We
stern Dr.=0A>> Cameron Park, CA 95682=0A>> brian@lloyd.com=0A>> +1.767.617.
1365 (Dominica)=0A>> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)=0A>>=0A>> *=0A>>=0A>> *=0A>>=0A>
>=0A>=0A>________________________________- Message 2- _________________
____________________=0A>=0A>=0A>Time: 05:57:27 PM PST US=0A>Subject: Yak-Li
st: Re: Tragic loss in Tx=0A>From: "ChangDriver" <capav8r@gmail.com>=0A>=0A
>=0A>While we may never know exactly what happened to Howard Pardue, I did
discuss the=0A>accident with a friend of his that flew a missing man with m
e this weekend.=0A>He said that he'd be very surprised if Howard would ever
do a low level roll=0A>on takeoff.- He said it would have been a medical
or mechanical failure for him=0A>to roll at such a low altitude.- Howard
had countless hours in that Bearcat=0A>and knew it's performance envelope
well.=0A>=0A>Interesting too is I am told that his airplane was the prototy
pe for the Bearcat=0A>so it was the XF8F.=0A>=0A>Here is his obit...=0A>=0A
>http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/reporternews/obituary.aspx?n=howard-edw
ards-pardue&pid=156885590=0A>=0A>=0A>Read this topic online here:=0A>=0A>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370324#370324=0A>=0A>=0A>____
____________________________- Message 3- ______________________________
_______=0A>=0A>=0A>Time: 06:13:41 PM PST US=0A>From: Ron Davis <l39parts@ho
tmail.com>=0A>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX=0A>=0A>=0A>
It troubles me when someone says flying is a privilege.- Driving is a 'pr
iv=0A>ilege' in most states=2C according to the statutes.- Is riding a
bicycle a =0A>privilege?- Was riding a horse a privilege when the constit
ution was writte=0A>n or was a right?- Is walking a privilege?- What r
ights exactly do I have =0A>as a free man if moving around is a privilege?
- I guess I have the right to=0A>remain silent.- Or at least will as so
on as I'm arrested.=0A>=0A>=0A>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenrid
ge TX=0A>From: hess737@aol.com=0A>=0A>=0A>Guys=2C=0A>It's a tragedy for s
ure for his family. Someone else said something today t=0A>hat was right up
my line of thinking. If there was a medical or mechanical =0A>issue then w
e are all sorry for the loss. If it was an intentional maneuver=0A>=2C th
en I worry every time that happens because like the F-18 crash today=0A>=
2C people on the ground can and do get hurt or killed. Military must fly.
=0A>Warbirds are not so needed. Our privileges are at risk with every such
even=0A>t. That alone is reason enough to be careful and make smart decisio
ns.=0A>=0A>Happy Easter to all...=0A>=0A>Richard Hess=0A>C 404-964-4885=0A>
=0A>=0A>-----Original Message-----=0A>From: Bitterlich=2C Mark G CIV Det
Cherry Point=2C MALS-14 64E=2C MALS-14 6=0A>4E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mi
l>=0A>Sent: Fri=2C Apr 6=2C 2012 2:44 pm=0A>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Sad
day at Breckenridge TX=0A>=0A>=0A>=2C =0A>MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@n
avy.mil>=0A>=0A>And with that ... I'm out of this thread.- More comments
from me only worse=0A>n the =0A>problem.- Manners:- When did we all los
e them? =0A>=0A>Mark Bitterlich=0A>=0A>=0A>-----Original Message-----=0A>Fr
om: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@mat
=0A>ronics.com] =0A>On Behalf Of Bitterlich=2C Mark G CIV Det Cherry Poin
t=2C MALS-14 64E=0A>Sent: Friday=2C April 06=2C 2012 12:05=0A>Subject
: RE: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX=0A>=0A>=2C =0A>MALS-14 64E" <m
ark.bitterlich@navy.mil>=0A>=0A>Thanks John=2C =0A>=0A>I am sure the fami
ly and friends of Mr. Pardue will be absolutely delighted=0A>at =0A>the les
sons you have espoused at the cost of his death ... which you know =0A>abso
lutely nothing about.- =0A>=0A>Mark Bitterlich=0A>=0A>=0A>-----Original M
essage-----=0A>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-
list-server@mat=0A>ronics.com] =0A>On Behalf Of John Fischer=0A>Sent: Frida
y=2C April 06=2C 2012 6:42=0A>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Sad day at Brecken
ridge TX=0A>=0A>Group=2C=0A>=0A>First off=2C I would like to offer my c
ondolences to Mr. Pardue's family an=0A>d =0A>friends.=0A>I have seen him m
any times=2C at the Reno Air Races I have attended over th=0A>e last =0A>
15+ years.=0A>=0A>While we do not know what actually happened to Mr. Pardue
(mechanical=2C me=0A>dical=2C =0A>mistake=2C ect...)=2C and will p
robably never know=2C there are still lesso=0A>ns to be =0A>learned. One
lesson=2C is are low level aerobatics unnecessary (if practici=0A>ng for
=0A>an airshow/or performing at one=2C with precautions=2C yes: if not
=2C no!).=0A>=0A>If we are going to be able to continue enjoying our airc
raft (Yaks=2C Warbi=0A>rds=2C =0A>ect....)=2C we must learn from the
mistakes of others and not make the same=0A>=0A>mistakes.=0A>=0A>Once upon
a time there was someone on this form that did low level aerobati=0A>cs in
=0A>their Yak-52.=0A>His attitude was=2C it is my aircraft=2C and I wil
l do as I please!=0A>How would you feel if he crashed and made the local pu
blic mad=2C causing y=0A>our =0A>local airport to close? (it has happened
)=0A>The FAA limited your rights to fly (that was how we got the 300/600 mi
le li=0A>mits =0A>imposed).=0A>This list goes on=2C and on=2C and on...
....=0A>=0A>As a flight engineer on C-130's=2C there are several times=2
C I had to stop=0A>the =0A>pilots from performing unauthorized (and- non
briefed)=2C maneuvers!=0A>While there are risk involved in aviation=2C
hopefully we are all taking ac=0A>tion to =0A>mitigate them on every flight
we take.=0A>=0A>Fly safe=0A>John Fischer=0A>Yak-52=0A>L-5A=0A>PT-19A=0A>
=0A>=0A>On 4/6/2012 5:58 AM=2C Bill Geipel wrote: =0A>=0A>--- Reall
y Brian ? U r actually trying to defend yourself? =0A>--- Let's all j
ust let this one go. Brian knows this is a no win argument=2C n=0A>one
=0A>will agree with him.=0A>=0A>=0A>--- Bill =0A>=0A>=0A>--- On
Apr 5=2C 2012=2C at 8:09 PM=2C Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com> wrote:
=0A>=0A>=0A>--- --- On Thu=2C Apr 5=2C 2012 at 4:09 PM=2C
Bitterlich=2C Mark G CIV Det Cherry=0A>Point=2C =0A>MALS-14 64E <mark.
bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:=0A>--- =0A>=0A>--- --- --
- He sure has my admiration.- I am sorry that you are angered by the=0A
>--- --- --- thought that he not only killed himself=2C
but destroyed an irreplaceabl=0A>e=0A>--- --- --- aircra
ft Brian=2C but I have this nagging feeling that he really didn't=0A>-
-- --- --- much care what your opinion was in the matter=
2C and I have to admit=2C=0A>--- --- --- neither do I.
- =0A>=0A>=0A>--- --- Whether you or he care for my opinion d
oesn't change the facts. The airpl=0A>ane =0A>and the laws of physics don't
care about anyone's opinion. But three things=0A>are =0A>for sure: he's de
ad=2C the airplane is destroyed=2C and it didn't have to h=0A>appen.=0A
>=0A>--- --- There are so many things we HAVE to risk when we f
ly: weather=2C mechanic=0A>al =0A>failure=2C momentary lapses of skill
=2C and plain old bad luck. We don't ne=0A>ed to =0A>intentionally make i
t worse. We stay alive and give aviation a good name by=0A>=0A>exercising G
OOD judgement.=0A>=0A>=0A>--- --- =0A>=0A>--- ---
--- Some people really live life to the fullest=2C and that=0A>-
-- --- --- oftentimes means doing things that others consid
er careless=2C reckless=0A>=2C=0A>--- --- --- or dang
erous.- One of the greatest freedoms we can have in this country=0A>-
-- --- --- is to make those decisions ourselves=2C althou
gh it is well known that=0A>--- --- --- there will ALWAYS
be those with 20/20 hindsight.=0A>--- --- =0A>=0A>=0A>--
- --- Oh=2C bullshit Mark. There is no 20/20 hindsight in this. W
e all know tha=0A>t doing =0A>a roll on takeoff is both stupid and unnecess
ary. There is little question =0A>in my =0A>mind that I could pull it off t
oo ... until I don't. But it is an unnecessa=0A>ry =0A>risk that gains no o
ne anything ... well=2C actually=2C we see what it gain=0A>s.=0A>=0A>
--- --- The bottom line Mark is that there was no need. He was
one hell of a Good=0A>Ol' =0A>Boy but he did something stupid=2C killed h
imself=2C and destroyed an irrep=0A>laceable =0A>aircraft. All he had to
do was choose to exercise good judgement and we wou=0A>ld =0A>still be enjo
ying his company and enjoying that aircraft. But he chose to =0A>exercise p
oor judgement. Period. That's is an irrefutable fact.=0A>=0A>--- -
-- Spin it however you want. Get pissed off at me for telling it like i
t is.=0A>But =0A>let me repeat what I said above because what I am saying i
s 100% true:=0A>=0A>--- --- *--- He is dead.=0A>---
--- *--- The airplane is destroyed.=0A>--- --- *
--- It didn't have to happen.=0A>=0A>--- --- -- =0A>-
-- --- Brian Lloyd=2C WB6RQN/J79BPL=0A>--- --- 3191
Western Dr.=0A>--- --- Cameron Park=2C CA 95682=0A>---
--- brian@lloyd.com=0A>--- --- +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica
)=0A>--- --- +1.916.877.5067 (USA)=0A>--- =0A>---
=0A>--- =0A>--- =0A>--- =0A>--- =0A>=0A>=0A>--
- href="3D%22http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List%22">http://ww
w.m=0A>atronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List=0A>--- href="3D%22http://fo
rums.matronics.com%22">http://forums.matronics.com=0A>--- href="3D
%22http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22">http://www.matroni=0A>cs.com/c
ontribution=0A>=0A>=0A>et=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-L
ist=0A>p://forums.matronics.com=0A>blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion=0A>=0A>=0A>--- --- --- - --- --- -
=0A>=0A>________________________________- Message 4- __________________
___________________=0A>=0A>=0A>Time: 06:32:02 PM PST US=0A>Subject: Re: Yak
-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX=0A>From: "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mind
spring.com>=0A>=0A>Ron,=0A>I understand how you feel. But, unless you have
a huge farm and can stay in c=0A>lass E airspace the entire time=0A>Holding
a certificate in the US is a privilege. As much as I hate say it, it=0A>is
a privilege. =0A>Doc=0A>=0A>Sent from my iPad=0A>=0A>On Apr 8, 2012, at 8:
11 PM, Ron Davis <l39parts@hotmail.com> wrote:=0A>=0A>> It troubles me when
someone says flying is a privilege.- Driving is a 'pri=0A>vilege' in mos
t states, according to the statutes.- Is riding a bicycle a pr=0A>ivilege
?- Was riding a horse a privilege when the constitution was written o=0A>
r was a right?- Is walking a privilege?- What rights exactly do I have
as a=0A>free man if moving around is a privilege?- I guess I have the ri
ght to rema=0A>in silent.- Or at least will as soon as I'm arrested.=0A>>
- =0A>> To: yak-list@matronics.com=0A>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Sad day at
Breckenridge TX=0A>> From: hess737@aol.com=0A>> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 16:0
5:10 -0400=0A>> =0A>> Guys,=0A>> It's a tragedy for sure for his family. So
meone else said something today t=0A>hat was right up my line of thinking.
If there was a medical or mechanical i=0A>ssue then we are all sorry for th
e loss. If it was an intentional maneuver, t=0A>hen I worry every time that
happens because like the F-18 crash today, peopl=0A>e on the ground can an
d do get hurt or killed. Military must fly. Warbirds a=0A>re not so needed.
Our privileges are at risk with every such event. That alo=0A>ne is reason
enough to be careful and make smart decisions.=0A>>- =0A>> Happy Easter
to all...=0A>> Richard Hess=0A>> C 404-964-4885=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> -----Origi
nal Message-----=0A>> From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-1
4 64E, MALS-14 64E <m=0A>ark.bitterlich@navy.mil>=0A>> To: yak-list <yak-li
st@matronics.com>=0A>> Sent: Fri, Apr 6, 2012 2:44 pm=0A>> Subject: RE: Yak
-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX=0A>> =0A>=0A>> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterl
ich@navy.mil>=0A>> =0A>> And with that ... I'm out of this thread.- More
comments from me only wors=0A>en the =0A>> problem.- Manners:- When did
we all lose them? =0A>> =0A>> Mark Bitterlich=0A>>- =0A>> =0A>> -----Ori
ginal Message-----=0A>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:o
wner-yak-list-server@ma=0A>tronics.com] =0A>> On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark
G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E=0A>> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 12:0
5=0A>> To: yak-list@matronics.com=0A>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Sad day at Br
eckenridge TX=0A>> =0A>=0A>> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>=0A>>
=0A>> Thanks John, =0A>> =0A>> I am sure the family and friends of Mr. Pard
ue will be absolutely delighte=0A>d at =0A>> the lessons you have espoused
at the cost of his death ... which you know =0A>=0A>> absolutely nothing ab
out.- =0A>> =0A>> Mark Bitterlich=0A>> =0A>> =0A>>- =0A>> =0A>> -----Or
iginal Message-----=0A>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
owner-yak-list-server@ma=0A>tronics.com] =0A>> On Behalf Of John Fischer=0A
>> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 6:42=0A>> To: yak-list@matronics.com=0A>> S
ubject: Re: Yak-List: Sad day at Breckenridge TX=0A>> =0A>> Group,=0A>> =0A
>> First off, I would like to offer my condolences to Mr. Pardue's family a
nd=0A>=0A>> friends.=0A>> I have seen him many times, at the Reno Air Races
I have attended over the=0A>last =0A>> 15+ years.=0A>> =0A>> While we do n
ot know what actually happened to Mr. Pardue (mechanical, med=0A>ical, =0A>
> mistake, ect...), and will probably never know, there are still lessons t
o=0A>be =0A>> learned. One lesson, is are low level aerobatics unnecessary
(if practicin=0A>g for =0A>> an airshow/or performing at one, with precauti
ons, yes: if not, no!).=0A>> =0A>> If we are going to be able to continue e
njoying our aircraft (Yaks, Warbir=0A>ds, =0A>> ect....), we must learn fro
m the mistakes of others and not make the same =0A>=0A>> mistakes.=0A>> =0A
>> Once upon a time there was someone on this form that did low level aerob
at=0A>ics in =0A>> their Yak-52.=0A>> His attitude was, it is my aircraft,
and I will do as I please!=0A>> How would you feel if he crashed and made t
he local public mad, causing yo=0A>ur =0A>> local airport to close? (it has
happened)=0A>> The FAA limited your rights to fly (that was how we got the
300/600 mile l=0A>imits =0A>> imposed).=0A>> This list goes on, and on, an
d on......=0A>> =0A>> As a flight engineer on C-130's, there are several ti
mes, I had to stop th=0A>e =0A>> pilots from performing unauthorized (and
- non briefed), maneuvers!=0A>> While there are risk involved in aviation
, hopefully we are all taking act=0A>ion to =0A>> mitigate them on every fl
ight we take.=0A>> =0A>> Fly safe=0A>> John Fischer=0A>> Yak-52=0A>> L-5A
=0A>> PT-19A=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> On 4/6/2012 5:58 AM, Bill G
eipel wrote: =0A>> =0A>> --- Really Brian ? U r actually trying to de
fend yourself? =0A>> --- Let's all just let this one go. Brian knows
this is a no win argume=0A>nt, none =0A>> will agree with him.=0A>> =0A>>
=0A>> --- Bill =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> --- On Apr 5, 2012, at 8
:09 PM, Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com> wrote:=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> --
- --- On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det C
=0A>herry Point, =0A>> MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:=0A>>
--- =0A>> =0A>> --- --- --- He sure has my admirati
on.- I am sorry that you are=0A>angered by the=0A>> --- ---
--- thought that he not only killed himself, but destro=0A>yed an irr
eplaceable=0A>> --- --- --- aircraft Brian, but I have th
is nagging feeling tha=0A>t he really didn't=0A>> --- --- -
-- much care what your opinion was in the matter, and I=0A>have to admi
t,=0A>> --- --- --- neither do I.- =0A>> =0A>> =0A>>
--- --- Whether you or he care for my opinion doesn't change th
e fa=0A>cts. The airplane =0A>> and the laws of physics don't care about an
yone's opinion. But three thing=0A>s are =0A>> for sure: he's dead, the air
plane is destroyed, and it didn't have to happ=0A>en.=0A>> =0A>> ---
--- There are so many things we HAVE to risk when we fly: weath=0A>er
, mechanical =0A>> failure, momentary lapses of skill, and plain old bad lu
ck. We don't need t=0A>o =0A>> intentionally make it worse. We stay alive a
nd give aviation a good name b=0A>y =0A>> exercising GOOD judgement.=0A>>
=0A>> =0A>> --- --- =0A>> =0A>> --- --- --- S
ome people really live life to the fullest, and th=0A>at=0A>> --- -
-- --- oftentimes means doing things that others consider c=0A>ar
eless, reckless,=0A>> --- --- --- or dangerous.- One of
the greatest freedoms we can h=0A>ave in this country=0A>> --- -
-- --- is to make those decisions ourselves, although it i=0A>s w
ell known that=0A>> --- --- --- there will ALWAYS be thos
e with 20/20 hindsight.=0A>> --- --- =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> --
- --- Oh, bullshit Mark. There is no 20/20 hindsight in this. We a
=0A>ll know that doing =0A>> a roll on takeoff is both stupid and unnecessa
ry. There is little question=0A>in my =0A>> mind that I could pull it off t
oo ... until I don't. But it is an unnecess=0A>ary =0A>> risk that gains no
one anything ... well, actually, we see what it gains.=0A>> =0A>> --
- --- The bottom line Mark is that there was no need. He was one h
=0A>ell of a Good Ol' =0A>> Boy but he did something stupid, killed himself
, and destroyed an irreplac=0A>eable =0A>> aircraft. All he had to do was c
hoose to exercise good judgement and we wo=0A>uld =0A>> still be enjoying h
is company and enjoying that aircraft. But he chose to =0A>=0A>> exercise p
oor judgement. Period. That's is an irrefutable fact.=0A>> =0A>> ---
--- Spin it however you want. Get pissed off at me for telling i=0A>t
like it is. But =0A>> let me repeat what I said above because what I am sa
ying is 100% true:=0A>> =0A>> --- --- *--- He is dead.=0A
>> --- --- *--- The airplane is destroyed.=0A>> ---
--- *--- It didn't have to happen.=0A>> =0A>> --- --
- -- =0A>> --- --- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL=0A>> ---
--- 3191 Western Dr.=0A>> --- --- Cameron Park, CA 95682
=0A>> --- --- brian@lloyd.com=0A>> --- --- +1.767.6
17.1365 (Dominica)=0A>> --- --- +1.916.877.5067 (USA)=0A>> -
-- =0A>> --- =0A>> --- =0A>> --- =0A>> --- =0A>
> --- =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> --- href="3D%22http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Yak-List%22">http:=0A>//www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak
-List=0A>> --- href="3D%22http://forums.matronics.com%22">http://f
orums.matroni=0A>cs.com=0A>> --- href="3D%22http://www.matronics.c
om/contribution%22">http://www.=0A>matronics.com/contribution=0A>> =0A>>
=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A
>> =0A>> et=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List=0A>> p://f
orums.matronics.com=0A>> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>>
=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Naviga
tor?Yak-List=0A>> ttp://forums.matronics.com=0A>> =_blank>http://www.matr
onics.com/contribution=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>==========
=================0A>=======
===0A>=====================
======0A>==========0A>========
===================0A>=====
=====0A>===================
========0A>==========0A>> =0A>=0A>_________
_______________________- Message 5- ___________________________________
__=0A>=0A>=0A>Time: 07:40:29 PM PST US=0A>Subject: Yak-List: Flying=0A>From
: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@n
avy.mil>=0A>=0A>=0A>Hey Doc.- Notice the difference in wording between wh
at he said and what you said?=0A>Might seem insignificant but it really is
not. =0A>=0A>There are a large number of people in this country that fly wi
thout a "certificate".=0A>That probably will trouble a LOT of people but it
is never-the-less a fact.=0A>=0A>=0A>And if they are smart... they are act
ually pretty difficult to catch.- If they=0A>are smart AND have money, yo
u can pretty much forget it. =0A>=0A>Scary thought that you might be sharin
g the skys with an unlicensed driver huh?=0A>=0A>=0A>:-)=0A>=0A>Mark=0A>=0A
>=0A>________________________________=0A>=0A>Roger Kemp M.D.=0A>=0A>Holding
a certificate in the US is a privilege. As much as I hate say it, it is=0A
>a privilege. =0A>Doc=0A>=0A>=0A>On Apr 8, 2012, at 8:11 PM, Ron Davis <l39
parts@hotmail.com> wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A>--- It troubles me when someone
says flying is a privilege.- =0A>=0A>=0A>________________________________
- Message 6- _____________________________________=0A>=0A>=0A>Time: 08:
21:57 PM PST US=0A>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Flying=0A>From: "Roger Kemp M.D."
<viperdoc@mindspring.com>=0A>=0A>=0A>Roger. Have known of one of those. FA
A could not do a thing about it because he=0A>flew over his own farm and fo
rest lands without ever broaching an airway or entering=0A>class E airspace
.. He remained in class G airspace the entire time while=0A>he surveyed his
cattle and forest land.- Was A WW II pilot that bought a surplus=0A>T6 a
fter the war. He is deceased now of natural causes associated with old=0A>a
ge.=0A>Doc=0A>=0A>Sent from my iPad=0A>=0A>On Apr 8, 2012, at 9:36 PM, "Bit
terlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"=0A><mark.bitterlich@navy
..mil> wrote:=0A>=0A>> =0A>> Hey Doc.- Notice the difference in wording be
tween what he said and what you=0A>said?- Might seem insignificant but it
really is not. =0A>> =0A>> There are a large number of people in this coun
try that fly without a "certificate".=0A>That probably will trouble a LOT o
f people but it is never-the-less a=0A>fact.- =0A>> a =0A>> And if they a
re smart... they are actually pretty difficult to catch.- If they=0A>are
smart AND have money, you can pretty much forget it. =0A>> =0A>> Scary thou
ght that you might be sharing the skys with an unlicensed driver huh?=0A>
=0A>> =0A>> :-)=0A>> =0A>> Mark=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> __________________________
______=0A>> =0A>> Roger Kemp M.D.=0A>> =0A>> Holding a certificate in the U
S is a privilege. As much as I hate say it, it=0A>is a privilege. =0A>> Doc
=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> On Apr 8, 2012, at 8:11 PM, Ron Davis <l39parts@hotmail.c
om> wrote:=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>>- - It troubles me when someone says f
lying is a privilege.- =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>=0A>=0A>
========================0A>
=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
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