Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:25 AM - MOGAS APPROVAL (Richard Goode)
2. 04:05 AM - Re: MOGAS APPROVAL (lOU)
3. 07:00 AM - Re: MOGAS APPROVAL (Lee R. Haven)
4. 10:21 AM - Re: Re: MOGAS APPROVAL (David Jester)
5. 10:47 AM - Re: Re: MOGAS APPROVAL (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
6. 12:50 PM - Re:MOGAS APPROVAL (Cpayne)
7. 12:55 PM - Torque values (Cpayne)
8. 01:03 PM - Re: Torque values (A. Dennis Savarese)
9. 02:03 PM - Re: Torque values (Roger Kemp)
10. 02:47 PM - Re: Torque values (A. Dennis Savarese)
11. 03:14 PM - Re: Re: MOGAS APPROVAL (Pilotdog57)
12. 05:53 PM - Re: Torque values (Roger Kemp M.D.)
13. 06:21 PM - Re: Re:MOGAS APPROVAL (Roger Kemp M.D.)
14. 08:32 PM - Re: Re:MOGAS APPROVAL (Brian Lloyd)
Message 1
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The issue is not restricted to that of octane.
For octane, remember that Aviation and motor fuels measure octane in
different ways, and, very roughly, 97 motor octane is about 91 aviation.
But M14P is fine for European 95 octane mogas., from an octane point of
view.
Then there is the issue of the fuel attacking compounds in the fuel system.
This is a slight unknown since the content of mogas varies greatly, but, in
my view is unlikely to be a problem.
BUT, I feel the real area of concern is that of volatility, in that mogas is
significantly more volatile than avgas-that is, it boils at a lower
temperature.
This is particularly true of "winter" mogas which is more volatile to assist
in starting.
So your worst scenario is with a low-wing plane [so the fuel needs to be
sucked into the engine by a pump], still using "winter" mogas on a hot
summer day; plane left in the sun, so the wing tanks heat up, and you go for
take-off and your engine COULD find itself trying to run on vapour!!
But, avoid the winter fuel and keep the tanks cool, and I see no problem,
and of course, in my estimation, about half of world-wide Yaks operate some
or all of the time on mogas!
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
I'm currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
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Message 2
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Michael
CASA Australia has found one case (Skyfox C25N) where mogas attacked seals
in the fuel pump it swelled causing fuel pump to leak, I found the same
problem some years ago when racing Go-karts we were forced to use un-leaded
the diaphragms in carby swelled, so I will not use it in my Cj6a.
I don't think it has been approved in Australia as yet for aircraft flying
under the Limited category.
Regards Lou
Subject: Yak-List: MOGAS APPROVAL
Gent's I know there has been quite a bit of discussion over the years on
the operation of the Yaks & Nanchangs on Mogas.
The question I have is there or has there been any formal approval given by
the FAA to operate these aircraft on Mogas.
I know in the Nanchang operational manual it states that they can operate on
as low as 78octain.
Any assistance in finding this out would be appreciated.
Message 3
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| Subject: | RE: MOGAS APPROVAL |
Thanks for the info on MOGAS.
Can a person bring MOGAS to the airport and fuel their plane directly
from 5 gallon cans?
Lee Haven |
EMT International, Inc.
780 Centerline Drive | Hobart, Wisconsin 54155
( 920-544-8958 | 7 920-468-7991
Email: leeh@emtinternational.com <mailto:leeh@emtinternational.com>
Visit our website at emtinternational.com
<http://www.emtinternational.com/>
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RE: MOGAS APPROVAL |
We do here in Florida.
Regards,
Dave Jester
On Apr 23, 2012, at 8:56 AM, "Lee R. Haven" <leeh@emtinternational.com> wrot
e:
> Thanks for the info on MOGAS.
>
> Can a person bring MOGAS to the airport and fuel their plane directly from
5 gallon cans?
>
> Lee Haven |
>
> <image001.jpg>
>
> EMT International, Inc.
> 780 Centerline Drive | Hobart, Wisconsin 54155
> ( 920-544-8958 | 7 920-468-7991
> Email: leeh@emtinternational.com
>
> Visit our website at emtinternational.com
>
> Notice: For complete, proactive, communication any copy (CC :) notice is t
o provide you with information only. If you do not wish to continue to rece
ive messages of this type, please reply to this message with the word "REMOV
E" in the subject. This e-mail, including attachments, may include confide
ntial and/or proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or e
ntity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the inte
nded recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified
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plying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately.
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | RE: MOGAS APPROVAL |
A quick story. Our local airport here in New Bern North Carolina is very "pro
FBO" and once tried to prohibit the very thing you are talking about. They made
an airport regulation that prohibited a person from bringing ANY type of fuel
onto the airport and fueling ANY kind of airplane. You were to buy your fuel
from the FBO .... period "or else".
Interestingly enough, the Feds weighed in on this one. Since the airport accepts
federal funds, they have to comply with federal regulations. Since it has
been proven that running some older engines on 100% 100LL fuel can cause damage,
and said engines are approved to run MOGAS by the FAA, the airport is required
to provide a means to put such fuel into airplanes and if they do not have
MOGAS fuel available to be put into airplanes on the airport itself, then they
cannot by law prohibit an aircraft owner from bringing it onto the airport and
fueling his own airplane.
The Airport Authority was forced to change their regulation prohibiting bringing
fuel onto the airport. Of course they then passed rules to make it as inconvenient
as possible to do so, but that's another story.
So bottom line, if your airport accepts federal funding, and does not have MOGAS
available for sale at the airport for aircraft use, then they can't stop you
from doing it.
Reality of course is a totally different thing. They can make an issue out of
it, but a call to the FAA will change their minds very quickly. Of course that
has "consequences" as well. Then expect all kinds of hassles about the type
of container meeting safety regulations, leaving those containers at the airport,
etc., etc., etc.
Good luck.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Jester
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: MOGAS APPROVAL
We do here in Florida.
Regards,
Dave Jester
On Apr 23, 2012, at 8:56 AM, "Lee R. Haven" <leeh@emtinternational.com> wrote:
Thanks for the info on MOGAS.
Can a person bring MOGAS to the airport and fuel their plane directly from 5 gallon
cans?
Lee Haven |
<image001.jpg>
EMT International, Inc.
780 Centerline Drive | Hobart, Wisconsin 54155
( 920-544-8958 | 7 920-468-7991
Email: leeh@emtinternational.com <mailto:leeh@emtinternational.com>
Visit our website at emtinternational.com <http://www.emtinternational.com/>
Notice: For complete, proactive, communication any copy (CC :) notice is to provide
you with information only. If you do not wish to continue to receive messages
of this type, please reply to this message with the word "REMOVE" in the
subject. This e-mail, including attachments, may include confidential and/or
proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity to which
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or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that any dissemination,
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and delete this e-mail immediately.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re:MOGAS APPROVAL |
Richard,
In regards to mogas vapor pressure issues, I have not experienced anything like
that with the CJ/M-14. Perhaps the pressure type carb is not as susceptible as
the float type carb. However; when Florida's Big Sugar lobby got ethanol onto
our mogas, *stuff* started happening to seals, even before the warning labels
about ethanol content showed up on the retail pumps.
Today, I mix 100LL with "Boat Gas", AKA "Recreational 90 octane" without ethanol.
Ethanol blended fuels made a sorry mess out of built-in fuel tanks on fiberglass
boat hulls, turned them into "gloop".
OTOH, I have seen vapor pressure issues with various homebuilts, such as the RV
series with fiberglass/foam cored cowlings, which make great insulators and hold
in the heat,
Craig Payne
Message 7
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Installing an OH'd M-14P which came with new rubber cushions in the mount. Does
anyone know if there is a published torque value? So far I tightened the nuts
until the mounts were compressed some. Took about 50 in-lbs.
Craig Payne
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Torque values |
Craig,
See attached. This should answer your question.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 4/23/2012 2:51 PM, Cpayne wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Cpayne<cpayne@joimail.com>
>
> Installing an OH'd M-14P which came with new rubber cushions in the mount. Does
anyone know if there is a published torque value? So far I tightened the nuts
until the mounts were compressed some. Took about 50 in-lbs.
>
> Craig Payne
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Torque values |
That's what I did to mine. Nice pdf. file Dennis. Some work went into that! Maybe
I missed it but where were the torque values. I'm looking for the torque values
for the motor mounts on the ring and the fire wall. Right now I am using
the Deutch values...goottentight.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
>From: Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
>Sent: Apr 23, 2012 2:51 PM
>To: yak-list <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Yak-List: Torque values
>
>
>Installing an OH'd M-14P which came with new rubber cushions in the mount. Does
anyone know if there is a published torque value? So far I tightened the nuts
until the mounts were compressed some. Took about 50 in-lbs.
>
>Craig Payne
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Torque values |
There actually are no specific torque values. It is a compression
value. IE: the dimension of the mount rubber once compressed.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 4/23/2012 3:59 PM, Roger Kemp wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp<viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> That's what I did to mine. Nice pdf. file Dennis. Some work went into that!
Maybe I missed it but where were the torque values. I'm looking for the torque
values for the motor mounts on the ring and the fire wall. Right now I am using
the Deutch values...goottentight.
> Doc
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Cpayne<cpayne@joimail.com>
>> Sent: Apr 23, 2012 2:51 PM
>> To: yak-list<yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Yak-List: Torque values
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Cpayne<cpayne@joimail.com>
>>
>> Installing an OH'd M-14P which came with new rubber cushions in the mount. Does
anyone know if there is a published torque value? So far I tightened the nuts
until the mounts were compressed some. Took about 50 in-lbs.
>>
>> Craig Payne
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: RE: MOGAS APPROVAL |
Does anyone run Mogas with ethanol? I used to run Mogas most of the time whe
n
It was mixed with MTBE- but ethanol mix has me running 100 LL.
Any one been running ethanol mixed Mogas long enough to have developed
a informed opinion? I am running an M14P in a CJ6.
Thanks. Doug Zeissner
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 23, 2012, at 10:17 AM, David Jester <wdjester@cox.net> wrote:
> We do here in Florida.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dave Jester
>
>
> On Apr 23, 2012, at 8:56 AM, "Lee R. Haven" <leeh@emtinternational.com> wr
ote:
>
>> Thanks for the info on MOGAS.
>>
>> Can a person bring MOGAS to the airport and fuel their plane directly fro
m 5 gallon cans?
>>
>> Lee Haven |
>>
>> <image001.jpg>
>>
>> EMT International, Inc.
>> 780 Centerline Drive | Hobart, Wisconsin 54155
>> ( 920-544-8958 | 7 920-468-7991
>> Email: leeh@emtinternational.com
>>
>> Visit our website at emtinternational.com
>>
>> Notice: For complete, proactive, communication any copy (CC :) notice is t
o provide you with information only. If you do not wish to continue to rece
ive messages of this type, please reply to this message with the word "REMOV
E" in the subject. This e-mail, including attachments, may include confide
ntial and/or proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or e
ntity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the inte
nded recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified
that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibite
d. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by re
plying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately.
>>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Torque values |
Copy.. That is what I did. The T.O.'s did not give any guidance.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 23, 2012, at 4:45 PM, "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
>
> There actually are no specific torque values. It is a compression value. IE:
the dimension of the mount rubber once compressed.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263
> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
> www.yak-52.com
> Skype - Yakguy1
>
>
> On 4/23/2012 3:59 PM, Roger Kemp wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp<viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>>
>> That's what I did to mine. Nice pdf. file Dennis. Some work went into that!
Maybe I missed it but where were the torque values. I'm looking for the torque
values for the motor mounts on the ring and the fire wall. Right now I am using
the Deutch values...goottentight.
>> Doc
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Cpayne<cpayne@joimail.com>
>>> Sent: Apr 23, 2012 2:51 PM
>>> To: yak-list<yak-list@matronics.com>
>>> Subject: Yak-List: Torque values
>>>
>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Cpayne<cpayne@joimail.com>
>>>
>>> Installing an OH'd M-14P which came with new rubber cushions in the mount.
Does anyone know if there is a published torque value? So far I tightened the
nuts until the mounts were compressed some. Took about 50 in-lbs.
>>>
>>> Craig Payne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re:MOGAS APPROVAL |
With Mogas do you add stabilizer to gas if you are going to have the A/C down for
a while?
Knowing some of the crap they put in Mogas can gum up the floats and plastic in
auto carbs I would assume it would do the same to a CJ engine that was stood
down for awhile.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 23, 2012, at 2:46 PM, Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com> wrote:
>
> Richard,
>
> In regards to mogas vapor pressure issues, I have not experienced anything like
that with the CJ/M-14. Perhaps the pressure type carb is not as susceptible
as the float type carb. However; when Florida's Big Sugar lobby got ethanol onto
our mogas, *stuff* started happening to seals, even before the warning labels
about ethanol content showed up on the retail pumps.
>
> Today, I mix 100LL with "Boat Gas", AKA "Recreational 90 octane" without ethanol.
Ethanol blended fuels made a sorry mess out of built-in fuel tanks on fiberglass
boat hulls, turned them into "gloop".
>
> OTOH, I have seen vapor pressure issues with various homebuilts, such as the
RV series with fiberglass/foam cored cowlings, which make great insulators and
hold in the heat,
>
> Craig Payne
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re:MOGAS APPROVAL |
On Monday, April 23, 2012, Roger Kemp M.D. wrote:
> >
>
> With Mogas do you add stabilizer to gas if you are going to have the A/C
> down for a while?
> Knowing some of the crap they put in Mogas can gum up the floats and
> plastic in auto carbs I would assume it would do the same to a CJ engine
> that was stood down for awhile.
> Doc
I never did. But then, I don't think I ever left a tank of gas for longer
than a week either. And every so often, i.e. every couple of months, I
would go on a cross country and have to burn avgas anyway. So I never had a
problem.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
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