Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:47 AM - Re: FW: M 14 P (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 06:50 AM - Re: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a (mgdimarco)
3. 07:28 AM - Re: Re: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a (Brian Lloyd)
4. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a (George Coy)
5. 09:26 AM - Snap rolls Yak 50 (gord)
6. 09:41 AM - Re: Snap rolls Yak 50 (Bill Geipel)
7. 10:39 AM - Re: Snap rolls Yak 50 (Roger Baker)
8. 11:06 AM - Re: Snap rolls Yak 50 (gord)
9. 11:23 AM - Re: Snap rolls Yak 50 (Genzlinger, Reade)
10. 11:25 AM - Re: Snap rolls Yak 50 (Nigel Willson)
11. 11:49 AM - Re: Snap rolls Yak 50 (gord)
12. 03:15 PM - Re: Snap rolls Yak 50 (Herb Coussons)
13. 03:59 PM - Re: Snap rolls Yak 50 (gord)
14. 04:50 PM - Re: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a (Adrian Coop Cooper)
15. 06:16 PM - Re: Snap rolls Yak 50 (Herb Coussons)
16. 08:21 PM - Re: g-meter for sale (keithmckinley)
17. 08:51 PM - Re: Snap rolls Yak 50 (barryhancock)
18. 09:42 PM - Re: Re: Snap rolls Yak 50 (Roger Baker)
Message 1
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Chris,'
You should contact Barrett Precision Engines in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I
guarantee you they will have the answers you need. 918-835-1089.
Outstanding US overhaul shop. They have developed and have running a
beautiful coil-over electronic ignition (one coil per spark plug) and
fuel injection setup for the M14.
Most likely you will speak to Rhonda first. Ask Rhonda if you can
discuss some technical stuff with either Monte Barrett or Allen
Barrett. They will also have cylinders for exchange. Rhonda's email
address is Rhonda@BPAENGINES.com.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 5/14/2012 4:58 PM, Chris Wise wrote:
>
> G'Day All,
>
> Can I please have some input re Ivor's questions.
>
> I have done all of my valves, intake and exhaust and used some
> grinding wheels (Dressed the angles with a diamond tip stone grinder
> in the lathe. One hell of a mess) and made some various size mandrels
> for both intake and exhaust to suite the slight differences of the guides.
>
> I found the exhaust seats to be extremely hard and went by the angles
> in the manual.
>
> Hey Chris,
>
> Do you know or could you find out if anyone knows what the M14P's
> factory exhaust valve face and exhaust valve seat angles should be ?
>
> Also, please ask if operators have had their exhaust valve seats
> re-cut and if so, did they encounter difficulty cutting the seat due
> to the hardness ?
>
> After hearing about your difficulties, I am contemplating making a
> diamond impregnated dressing stone for this task.
>
> Any takers ?
>
> Is there an exchange service for overhauled cylinders ?
>
> I have a mate who requires 3 urgently. I guess when the leakage
> exceeds the starting air flow, you have to either fit an electric
> start or FIX the problem, eh ?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ivor Paech LAME
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a |
I guess I'll have to hunt for a digital engine analyzer. Right now I have a digital
tach in one of the large holes (3.5"?). I'll bet I can use that space better.
Suggestions?
--------
Michael Di Marco
China Blue
mgdimarco@yahoo.com
407-608-3290
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373090#373090
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a |
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 6:48 AM, mgdimarco <mgdimarco@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I guess I'll have to hunt for a digital engine analyzer. Right now I have
> a digital tach in one of the large holes (3.5"?). I'll bet I can use that
> space better.
>
> Suggestions?
>
Michael, I did it old-school. I did a lot of cross-country flying in mine.
Every cross-country flight was a test flight. (Only aerobatic and formation
flights were not used for data collection although I did find that fuel
usage tended to go up when flying on someone's wing.) I would use various
altitudes and RPM settings. I always flew with the throttle wide open,
accepting whatever MAP I got. (Because the engines use mechanical
superchargers, reduced RPM reduces maximum available MAP.) In flight,
calculate TAS. Then land, fill up, and use your E6B to calculate fuel burn.
(Calibrate your ASI first. I can provide you with a spreadsheet that will
let you determine TAS and winds aloft from three GPS ground track and GS
readings. You work backward to CAS from that.)
I did find that, by giving up about 10kts of TAS, I could often eliminate
at least one fuel stop. That ends up saving a lot more time in a day than
going 10 kts faster would make up for.
BUT, if you have a good fuel-flow gauge, you can get your data almost
immediately and then collect several data points per flight rather than
just one.
The problem with using the fuel specifics, i.e. g/hp*hr, is that they
change with the operating point of the engine. Also hp output is not
completely linear with changes in MAP and RPM. It is possible to model the
hp output from MAP and RPM for a given mixture but it is just a lot easier
to measure it and plot it against the actual performance of the airplane.
So, you set the power to something you think reasonable, e.g. 2100 RPM,
full-throttle, 9,500', mixture leaned for smooth running, and then see what
you get. When you land you can find out what your actual fuel burn was.
After all, knowing the hp output might be interesting but what most pilots
really want to know is what the airplane will do at a given power setting.
Oh, be sure to be consistent in the loading of the airplane even moving the
CJ can affect the performance results.
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a |
I have the performance data on a Russian AI14RA. The Housai seems to be a
License built AI14RA as far as I can tell. If you would lie the data, I will
scan it and send it.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mgdimarco
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 9:48 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a
I guess I'll have to hunt for a digital engine analyzer. Right now I have a
digital tach in one of the large holes (3.5"?). I'll bet I can use that
space better.
Suggestions?
--------
Michael Di Marco
China Blue
mgdimarco@yahoo.com
407-608-3290
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373090#373090
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| Subject: | Snap rolls Yak 50 |
Hello
I have recently purchased Barry Hancock's Yak 50 and am having some
difficulty with the snaps. They run out of roll rate about 270 degrees and
have to be aileroned. Going right and using max 200 kph. Anyone out there
willing to share the secret ? I've watched the u-tube videos of the YAK 52
snaps but I can't see enough of the inputs. Also any lomcevak entries would
be much appreciated. Much different than the airplanes I grew up in. Once
I was told it takes 2 hands to roll I was quite relived. I thought it was
because I just turned 70. Love the airplane!
Many thanks,
Gord Price
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Snap rolls Yak 50 |
How about a nice gentle aileron roll? Or a little faster, full rudder and ai
leron seems to be the nature of the beast. Doing hammerheads I still need ai
leron to make it look right.
Bill
On May 15, 2012, at 10:20 AM, "gord" <gord@thedampub.ca> wrote:
> Hello
>
> I have recently purchased Barry Hancock=99s Yak 50 and am having som
e difficulty with the snaps. They run out of roll rate about 270 degrees an
d have to be aileroned. Going right and using max 200 kph. Anyone out the
re willing to share the secret ? I=99ve watched the u-tube videos of
the YAK 52 snaps but I can=99t see enough of the inputs. Also any lom
cevak entries would be much appreciated. Much different than the airplanes I
grew up in. Once I was told it takes 2 hands to roll I was quite relived.
I thought it was because I just turned 70. Love the airplane!
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Gord Price
>
>
==========================
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=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Snap rolls Yak 50 |
Gord,
Good snaps in a 52 by:
1. Between 180-200 kph, induce accelerated stall
2. Almost simutaneously, aggressive full rudder in direction you wanna' roll
3. Again almost simultaneously, full "pro roll" aileron
Once you get the timing of this down, a 52 will snap quite enthusiastic
ally.
Roger
PS Recovery? Simultaneously (assuming positive snap), stick briefly forward o
f neutral, center aileron and some opposite rudder. You don't have to "bury
" the controls in recovery. As the snap is stopping, return all three to ne
utral. This avoids a cross-over anything.
PPS Everything with two hands on the stick
PPPS All maneuvers done at least two mistakes high.
On May 15, 2012, at 9:20 AM, "gord" <gord@thedampub.ca> wrote:
> Hello
>
>
>
> I have recently purchased Barry Hancock=99s Yak 50 and am having som
e difficulty with the snaps. They run out of roll rate about 270 degrees an
d have to be aileroned. Going right and using max 200 kph. Anyone out the
re willing to share the secret ? I=99ve watched the u-tube videos of
the YAK 52 snaps but I can=99t see enough of the inputs. Also any lom
cevak entries would be much appreciated. Much different than the airplanes I
grew up in. Once I was told it takes 2 hands to roll I was quite relived.
I thought it was because I just turned 70. Love the airplane!
>
>
>
> Many thanks,
>
>
>
> Gord Price
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Snap rolls Yak 50 |
Thanks Roger,
I am close. I normally lead with some rudder, maybe that is the problem and
yes timing is the key I think. Maybe I am not quite aggressive enough on
the back stick too. Keep forgetting the 2 hands. Yes high is good,
particularly as I work through the outside snaps where 3 hands would be even
better on the recovery.
Gord
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Baker
Sent: May-15-12 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Snap rolls Yak 50
Gord,
Good snaps in a 52 by:
1. Between 180-200 kph, induce accelerated stall
2. Almost simutaneously, aggressive full rudder in direction you wanna' roll
3. Again almost simultaneously, full "pro roll" aileron
Once you get the timing of this down, a 52 will snap quite
enthusiastically.
Roger
PS Recovery? Simultaneously (assuming positive snap), stick briefly forward
of neutral, center aileron and some opposite rudder. You don't have to
"bury" the controls in recovery. As the snap is stopping, return all three
to neutral. This avoids a cross-over anything.
PPS Everything with two hands on the stick
PPPS All maneuvers done at least two mistakes high.
On May 15, 2012, at 9:20 AM, "gord" <gord@thedampub.ca> wrote:
Hello
I have recently purchased Barry Hancock's Yak 50 and am having some
difficulty with the snaps. They run out of roll rate about 270 degrees and
have to be aileroned. Going right and using max 200 kph. Anyone out there
willing to share the secret ? I've watched the u-tube videos of the YAK 52
snaps but I can't see enough of the inputs. Also any lomcevak entries would
be much appreciated. Much different than the airplanes I grew up in. Once
I was told it takes 2 hands to roll I was quite relived. I thought it was
because I just turned 70. Love the airplane!
Many thanks,
Gord Price
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ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Na
vigator?Yak-List
==================================
ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Snap rolls Yak 50 |
I find loading the wings first with stick pull then full (right) rudder
with all the rest that Roger said. Inputs are aggressive but not
jerking. In roll aileron accelerates rotation. As will almost
everything in the 52 as soon as you stop or check the input the maneuver
stops - therefore, do not anticipate going neutral - force yourself to
wait until wings are level (or whatever you are looking for) before
changing control input.
Splinter
Reade Genzlinger
Cairnwood Cooperative Corp.
215.914.0370
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gord
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 2:03 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Snap rolls Yak 50
Thanks Roger,
I am close. I normally lead with some rudder, maybe that is the problem
and yes timing is the key I think. Maybe I am not quite aggressive
enough on the back stick too. Keep forgetting the 2 hands. Yes high is
good, particularly as I work through the outside snaps where 3 hands
would be even better on the recovery.
Gord
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Baker
Sent: May-15-12 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Snap rolls Yak 50
Gord,
Good snaps in a 52 by:
1. Between 180-200 kph, induce accelerated stall
2. Almost simutaneously, aggressive full rudder in direction you wanna'
roll
3. Again almost simultaneously, full "pro roll" aileron
Once you get the timing of this down, a 52 will snap quite
enthusiastically.
Roger
PS Recovery? Simultaneously (assuming positive snap), stick briefly
forward of neutral, center aileron and some opposite rudder. You don't
have to "bury" the controls in recovery. As the snap is stopping,
return all three to neutral. This avoids a cross-over anything.
PPS Everything with two hands on the stick
PPPS All maneuvers done at least two mistakes high.
On May 15, 2012, at 9:20 AM, "gord" <gord@thedampub.ca> wrote:
Hello
I have recently purchased Barry Hancock's Yak 50 and am having
some difficulty with the snaps. They run out of roll rate about 270
degrees and have to be aileroned. Going right and using max 200 kph.
Anyone out there willing to share the secret ? I've watched the u-tube
videos of the YAK 52 snaps but I can't see enough of the inputs. Also
any lomcevak entries would be much appreciated. Much different than the
airplanes I grew up in. Once I was told it takes 2 hands to roll I was
quite relived. I thought it was because I just turned 70. Love the
airplane!
Many thanks,
Gord Price
=========
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.c
o
m/Navigator?Yak-List
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ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
=========
http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribu
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| Subject: | Snap rolls Yak 50 |
'52 ones work for me by:
Use TWO hands.....
Speed 190clicks
Accelerated stall with brief FULL CENTRAL back stick (then neutral to avoid
excessive drag)
Immediately followed by FULL rudder and FULL in flick aileron (maintaining
neutral elevator - that's the hard bit....)
Recovery pretty instantaneous with aileron central, rudder central and slig
ht forward stick all at the same time.
Nigel
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@mat
ronics.com] On Behalf Of gord
Sent: 15 May 2012 19:03
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Snap rolls Yak 50
Thanks Roger,
I am close. I normally lead with some rudder, maybe that is the problem an
d yes timing is the key I think. Maybe I am not quite aggressive enough on
the back stick too. Keep forgetting the 2 hands. Yes high is good, parti
cularly as I work through the outside snaps where 3 hands would be even bet
ter on the recovery.
Gord
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matr
onics.com> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]<mailto:[mailto:owne
r-yak-list-server@matronics.com]> On Behalf Of Roger Baker
Sent: May-15-12 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Snap rolls Yak 50
Gord,
Good snaps in a 52 by:
1. Between 180-200 kph, induce accelerated stall
2. Almost simutaneously, aggressive full rudder in direction you wanna' rol
l
3. Again almost simultaneously, full "pro roll" aileron
Once you get the timing of this down, a 52 will snap quite enthusiasti
cally.
Roger
PS Recovery? Simultaneously (assuming positive snap), stick briefly forward
of neutral, center aileron and some opposite rudder. You don't have to "b
ury" the controls in recovery. As the snap is stopping, return all three t
o neutral. This avoids a cross-over anything.
PPS Everything with two hands on the stick
PPPS All maneuvers done at least two mistakes high.
On May 15, 2012, at 9:20 AM, "gord" <gord@thedampub.ca<mailto:gord@thedampu
b.ca>> wrote:
Hello
I have recently purchased Barry Hancock's Yak 50 and am having some difficu
lty with the snaps. They run out of roll rate about 270 degrees and have t
o be aileroned. Going right and using max 200 kph. Anyone out there will
ing to share the secret ? I've watched the u-tube videos of the YAK 52 sn
aps but I can't see enough of the inputs. Also any lomcevak entries would b
e much appreciated. Much different than the airplanes I grew up in. Once
I was told it takes 2 hands to roll I was quite relived. I thought it was
because I just turned 70. Love the airplane!
Many thanks,
Gord Price
=========
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Yak-List
=========
ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
=========
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n<http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22%3ehttp:/www.matronics.com/contri
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| Subject: | Snap rolls Yak 50 |
OK .... That makes sense.... to unload the elevator to conserve energy and
yes a conscious effort to keep it neutral with full rudder and aileron.
That seems like what I am seeing on the snap roll on t/o video
http://www.yakuk.com/video/flickme.wmv
Thank you
Gord
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Snap rolls Yak 50 |
I would echo the other comments here. My experience is in 52 and
coached by Sergei.
Snaps
I use 120-140 mph (190-220kph) then firm neutral back stick. Immediate
right rudder. When rotation starts stick to the right toe. (release
back preassure and pro-spin aileron really speeds the rotation.) Then
recovery.
For the lomcevak.
Be very comfortable with inverted spins and recovery.
Start at least 4000 AGL for practice. Lower dive for airspeed
acceptable.
Enter 60 degree pitch up at 220 mph (350kph) then roll inverted. Full
left rudder followed with immediate full forward right stick and hold
inputs. Hang on. As energy disipates the plane will wind up forced
into an inverted spin if the control inputs are held. SO as the energy
disipates, close throttle, recover with opposite rudder and stick back /
neutral as the nose comes down and the airspeed builds.
Remeber the above is for 52. I never did lomcevaks in the 55 I owned.
I am super conservative and only do what I know how to do. I feel
comfortable with the above after doing countless with Sergei in the back
seat. I did not have this opportunity obviously with the 55, so I was
more cautious.
Dr. Herb Coussons, MD
drc@wscare.com
2641 Development Drive
Green Bay, WI 54311
Cell 920-639-8434
Work 920-338-6868
Fax 920-338-6869
On May 15, 2012, at 11:20 AM, gord wrote:
> Hello
>
> I have recently purchased Barry Hancock=92s Yak 50 and am having some
difficulty with the snaps. They run out of roll rate about 270 degrees
and have to be aileroned. Going right and using max 200 kph. Anyone
out there willing to share the secret ? I=92ve watched the u-tube
videos of the YAK 52 snaps but I can=92t see enough of the inputs. Also
any lomcevak entries would be much appreciated. Much different than the
airplanes I grew up in. Once I was told it takes 2 hands to roll I was
quite relived. I thought it was because I just turned 70. Love the
airplane!
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Gord Price
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Snap rolls Yak 50 |
Right toe... I like that and it makes sense. I was limiting the speed to
200 kph to keep g load to 5.
Do you recall what rolling g you get at 220?
Thank you for the Lomcevak entry. I will give it a go tomorrow.
Gord
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Charts CJ6a and Housai 6a |
Hi George.
I am sure a lot of us would like to see the performance chart you mentioned.
Any chance of posting the scan. If not, could you please email me a copy to coop@cj6.ca
Thanks in advance.
Coop. : :)
--------
Coop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373131#373131
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| Subject: | Re: Snap rolls Yak 50 |
One the wing stalls g load is minimal. Not sure the g load to induce stall. W
ill fly Thursday and reply.
Sent from DrC on the iPhone
On May 15, 2012, at 5:56 PM, "gord" <gord@thedampub.ca> wrote:
> Right toe I like that and it makes sense. I wa
s limiting the speed to 200 kph to keep g load to 5.
>
> Do you recall what rolling g you get at 220?
>
> Thank you for the Lomcevak entry. I will give it a go tomorrow.
>
> Gord
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
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>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: g-meter for sale |
Keep em coming. IMO this is exactly one of the things this list is for.
Too many uptight people that think they own this site....
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373134#373134
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Snap rolls Yak 50 |
Guys, just so you know who you are dealing with....google Gordon Price Canadian
Aerobatics, or World Aerobatic Championships. He may be 70 but still out flies
most guys half his age....
Good to see your having fun with #001, Gord!
Happy Flying,
Barry
--------
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
(877) 869-6458
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
Read this topic online here:
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Snap rolls Yak 50 |
Barry,
Thanks for the bio note on Gord. I was happy to pass along to him my bit
about what worked for me in snapping a 52....Just as I was happy, using my 52,
to check you out in inverted spins a few years back....passing along what worked
for me. I think that's the way it's supposed to work.
Glad the "first 50" has gone to someone who will use it, enjoy it, and fly
the pants off it!
Roger___________________________________________________
On May 15, 2012, at 8:49 PM, barryhancock wrote:
>
> Guys, just so you know who you are dealing with....google Gordon Price Canadian
Aerobatics, or World Aerobatic Championships. He may be 70 but still out flies
most guys half his age....
>
> Good to see your having fun with #001, Gord!
>
> Happy Flying,
>
> Barry
>
> --------
> Barry Hancock
> Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
> (877) 869-6458
> www.worldwidewarbirds.com
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373135#373135
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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