Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:41 AM - Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos (Espada)
2. 08:09 AM - Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos (Hans Oortman)
3. 08:29 AM - Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos (Byron Fox)
4. 09:25 AM - Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos (Bill Geipel)
5. 12:58 PM - Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos (Espada)
6. 01:03 PM - Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos (Espada)
7. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos (A. Dennis Savarese)
8. 01:21 PM - Re: Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos (A. Dennis Savarese)
9. 01:22 PM - Re: Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos (A. Dennis Savarese)
10. 01:52 PM - Re: Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos (Tom Elliott)
11. 06:13 PM - Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos (Espada)
12. 06:44 PM - Re: Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos (Walter Lannon)
13. 07:05 PM - Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos (Joe Enzminger)
14. 07:14 PM - Re: Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos (Gary Gabbard)
15. 07:21 PM - Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos (Espada)
16. 08:22 PM - Re: Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos (Walter Lannon)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos |
IMPORTANT NOTE: Ensure magneto selector switches in both the front and rear cockpits
remain on "0" until the propeller pull through procedure is complete, then
SET THE MAGNETO IN THE REAR COCKPIT TO "1+2" POSITION before attempting to
start the engine.
Following this procedure, I found on my first solo flight that I couldn't shut
down the engine with the front (and of course only accessible) magnetos... had
to get a friend to climb up on the wing and switch the rear seat magnetos to
"0."
Is there a rear seat "instructor screwing with the student's mind" switch that
will affect this situation?
Thanks,
Alex
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373388#373388
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| Subject: | Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos |
Why didn't you use the fuel cut off valve and just wait till the engine
comes to a stop.....??
Hans
RA3326K Yak52
Op 20-05-12 15:38, Espada <Espada42@yahoo.com> schreef:
>
> IMPORTANT NOTE: Ensure magneto selector switches in both the front and rear
> cockpits remain on "0" until the propeller pull through procedure is complete,
> then SET THE MAGNETO IN THE REAR COCKPIT TO "1+2" POSITION before attempting
> to start the engine.
>
> Following this procedure, I found on my first solo flight that I couldn't shut
> down the engine with the front (and of course only accessible) magnetos...
> had to get a friend to climb up on the wing and switch the rear seat magnetos
> to "0."
>
> Is there a rear seat "instructor screwing with the student's mind" switch that
> will affect this situation?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Alex
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373388#373388
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos |
Is the ignition selector switch in the aft cockpit set to the front seat? This
will give the front seat magneto control.
Sent from my iPhone
On May 20, 2012, at 6:38 AM, "Espada" <Espada42@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> IMPORTANT NOTE: Ensure magneto selector switches in both the front and rear
cockpits remain on "0" until the propeller pull through procedure is complete,
then SET THE MAGNETO IN THE REAR COCKPIT TO "1+2" POSITION before attempting
to start the engine.
>
> Following this procedure, I found on my first solo flight that I couldn't shut
down the engine with the front (and of course only accessible) magnetos...
had to get a friend to climb up on the wing and switch the rear seat magnetos
to "0."
>
> Is there a rear seat "instructor screwing with the student's mind" switch that
will affect this situation?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Alex
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373388#373388
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos |
If the rear mag is at 0, it won't start. So normal procedure is to leave the rear
on. Yours sounds like a wiring issue. I actually rewrite and removed the rear
mag switch.
Bill
On May 20, 2012, at 9:32 AM, Byron Fox <byronmfox@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Is the ignition selector switch in the aft cockpit set to the front seat? This
will give the front seat magneto control.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 20, 2012, at 6:38 AM, "Espada" <Espada42@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> IMPORTANT NOTE: Ensure magneto selector switches in both the front and rear
cockpits remain on "0" until the propeller pull through procedure is complete,
then SET THE MAGNETO IN THE REAR COCKPIT TO "1+2" POSITION before attempting
to start the engine.
>>
>> Following this procedure, I found on my first solo flight that I couldn't shut
down the engine with the front (and of course only accessible) magnetos...
had to get a friend to climb up on the wing and switch the rear seat magnetos
to "0."
>>
>> Is there a rear seat "instructor screwing with the student's mind" switch that
will affect this situation?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373388#373388
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos |
czech6(at)mesanetworks.ne wrote:
> If the rear mag is at 0, it won't start. So normal procedure is to leave the
rear on. Yours sounds like a wiring issue. I actually rewrite and removed the
rear mag switch.
>
> Bill
>
> Thanks... will investigate-
>
>
>
> On May 20, 2012, at 9:32 AM, Byron Fox wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> > Is the ignition selector switch in the aft cockpit set to the front seat?
This will give the front seat magneto control.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On May 20, 2012, at 6:38 AM, "Espada" wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > IMPORTANT NOTE: Ensure magneto selector switches in both the front and rear
cockpits remain on "0" until the propeller pull through procedure is complete,
then SET THE MAGNETO IN THE REAR COCKPIT TO "1+2" POSITION before attempting
to start the engine.
> > >
> > > Following this procedure, I found on my first solo flight that I couldn't
shut down the engine with the front (and of course only accessible) magnetos...
had to get a friend to climb up on the wing and switch the rear seat magnetos
to "0."
> > >
> > > Is there a rear seat "instructor screwing with the student's mind" switch
that will affect this situation?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Alex
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Read this topic online here:
> > >
> > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373388#373388
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373426#373426
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| Subject: | Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos |
"Is the ignition selector switch in the aft cockpit set to the front seat? This
will give the front seat magneto control."
- byronmfox
Don't have a clue, Byron... how does one do this ? I'm not near the airport
right now, so can't look for a switch so designated; what's it called ( I'll
feel pretty stupid if I find one marked "Ignition switch for front cockpit"
tomorrow) ?
And thanks for the advice -
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373427#373427
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| Subject: | Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos |
Assuming you have a CJ, look at the attached photo. See the toggle
switch just above the mag switch? In the UP position, the mag switch in
the front cockpit has control. In the DOWN position the mag switch in
the rear cockpit has control. It should be left in the UP position.
Same is true for the Yak 52 except the 52's toggle switch is above the
gear selector and has a metal 'guard' on both sides.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 5/20/2012 3:00 PM, Espada wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Espada"<Espada42@yahoo.com>
>
> "Is the ignition selector switch in the aft cockpit set to the front seat? This
will give the front seat magneto control."
>
> - byronmfox
>
> Don't have a clue, Byron... how does one do this ? I'm not near the airport
right now, so can't look for a switch so designated; what's it called ( I'll
feel pretty stupid if I find one marked "Ignition switch for front cockpit"
tomorrow) ?
>
> And thanks for the advice -
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373427#373427
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos |
If it's a Yak 52, look at the attached photo. Next to the gear selector
at about the 4 o'clock position is a toggle switch with metal tabs on
each side bent in over the toggle switch. Bending the side tabs
somewhat prevents accidental movement of the toggle switch.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 5/20/2012 3:00 PM, Espada wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Espada"<Espada42@yahoo.com>
>
> "Is the ignition selector switch in the aft cockpit set to the front seat? This
will give the front seat magneto control."
>
> - byronmfox
>
> Don't have a clue, Byron... how does one do this ? I'm not near the airport
right now, so can't look for a switch so designated; what's it called ( I'll
feel pretty stupid if I find one marked "Ignition switch for front cockpit"
tomorrow) ?
>
> And thanks for the advice -
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373427#373427
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos |
for the 52, I should have said next to the gear selector. Not above it.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 5/20/2012 3:13 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> Assuming you have a CJ, look at the attached photo. See the toggle
> switch just above the mag switch? In the UP position, the mag switch
> in the front cockpit has control. In the DOWN position the mag switch
> in the rear cockpit has control. It should be left in the UP position.
>
> Same is true for the Yak 52 except the 52's toggle switch is above the
> gear selector and has a metal 'guard' on both sides.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263
> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
> www.yak-52.com
> Skype - Yakguy1
>
>
> On 5/20/2012 3:00 PM, Espada wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Espada"<Espada42@yahoo.com>
>>
>> "Is the ignition selector switch in the aft cockpit set to the front
>> seat? This will give the front seat magneto control."
>>
>> - byronmfox
>>
>> Don't have a clue, Byron... how does one do this ? I'm not near
>> the airport right now, so can't look for a switch so designated;
>> what's it called ( I'll feel pretty stupid if I find one marked
>> "Ignition switch for front cockpit" tomorrow) ?
>>
>> And thanks for the advice -
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373427#373427
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos |
Almost correct on the Cj the rear mag switch is always in control. i.e. if it is
set to 0
no spark The selector switch allows the front mag switch to be paralleled with
the rear.
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
777 Quartz Ave
PMB 7004
Sandy Valley NV
89019
Cell 702-595-2680
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos
Assuming you have a CJ, look at the attached photo. See the toggle
switch just above the mag switch? In the UP position, the mag switch in
the front cockpit has control. In the DOWN position the mag switch in
the rear cockpit has control. It should be left in the UP position.
Same is true for the Yak 52 except the 52's toggle switch is above the
gear selector and has a metal 'guard' on both sides.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 5/20/2012 3:00 PM, Espada wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Espada"<Espada42@yahoo.com>
>
> "Is the ignition selector switch in the aft cockpit set to the front seat? This
will give the
front seat magneto control."
>
> - byronmfox
>
> Don't have a clue, Byron... how does one do this ? I'm not near the airport
right now, so
can't look for a switch so designated; what's it called ( I'll feel pretty stupid
if I find one
marked "Ignition switch for front cockpit" tomorrow) ?
>
> And thanks for the advice -
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373427#373427
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos |
Dennis and Byron, you guys are kickass... absolutely correct. I couldn't stand
it and drove all the way back to the airport (hope I get a hangar closer to
home one of these days) and checked out the Savarese photography.
Way down in the instructor position corner is what was shown on the photos - "zazhiganiye
kabina 1 + 2", which of course means "ignition, cockpits 1 + 2," right
?
Thanks to all for the input - Matronics folks are the good guys.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373444#373444
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos |
Tom is correct. The ignition control switch (NOT the ignition selector
switch " Off - 1 - 2 - 1+2"), if original wiring is intact, works as
follows: UP - Ignition selector is live in both cockpits, DOWN - Rear
selector is live, front selector is dead.
During restoration I prefer to re-wire the "P" leads to the front switch
only and remove all other wiring. The front seat then has the only
operating ignition selector. However many prefer to retain the original
system and in that case I placard the the rear cockpit control switch and
witness wire it in the UP position and also witness wire the rear selector
in the 1+2 position. Witness wire is pure copper and is easily broken if
necessary. I also witness wire the rear gear and flap selectors in the
neutral position.
If I can remember tomorrow I will take a photo of the control switch
placards and post it.
Walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Elliott
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 1:49 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos
Almost correct on the Cj the rear mag switch is always in control. i.e. if
it is set to 0
no spark The selector switch allows the front mag switch to be paralleled
with the rear.
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
777 Quartz Ave
PMB 7004
Sandy Valley NV
89019
Cell 702-595-2680
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos
Assuming you have a CJ, look at the attached photo. See the toggle
switch just above the mag switch? In the UP position, the mag switch in
the front cockpit has control. In the DOWN position the mag switch in
the rear cockpit has control. It should be left in the UP position.
Same is true for the Yak 52 except the 52's toggle switch is above the
gear selector and has a metal 'guard' on both sides.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 5/20/2012 3:00 PM, Espada wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Espada"<Espada42@yahoo.com>
>
> "Is the ignition selector switch in the aft cockpit set to the front seat?
> This will give the
front seat magneto control."
>
> - byronmfox
>
> Don't have a clue, Byron... how does one do this ? I'm not near the
> airport right now, so
can't look for a switch so designated; what's it called ( I'll feel pretty
stupid if I find one
marked "Ignition switch for front cockpit" tomorrow) ?
>
> And thanks for the advice -
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373427#373427
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos |
I would advise against leaving the rear mag switch in the "on" position as a matter
of procedure. If the instructor switch is inadvertently flipped (as is likely
the case here), you now have a hot prop. Since we pull through our engines
as a matter of procedure, and since the consequence of a mistake can be fatal,
I would recommend safing both mag switches after shutdown.
The very first thing I do in my preflight procedure, before touching anything else,
is to verify that both front and back mag switches are off. The last thing
I do before securing the airplane is to make sure both mag switches are off.
It may sound like overkill, but the design of our airplanes makes very easy
to inadvertently be in a hot mag situation.
Joe Enzminger
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373448#373448
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos |
Gentlemen. Some time back I suspected my front mag switch had maybe outlived it
time in use. I was correct. It would shut down the engine but with a bit of
wiggling at times it would become ungrounded. In that condition the mags are
hot. Next time you pull the prop thru it could be a nasty experience. Removed
the front mag switch and order a new one from Doug S. Old switch was worn and
felt just a bit loose and with an ohm meter on it the grounding reliability
was in question. New switch much tighter feeling. Suggest you all consider the
same action. Or at least check the grounding of the switch with an analog ohm
meter, much easier to see intermittent grounding with that type of meter. Needle
wiggling.
Gary Gabbard
N22YK
Sent from my iPhone
On May 20, 2012, at 18:37, "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> Tom is correct. The ignition control switch (NOT the ignition selector switch
" Off - 1 - 2 - 1+2"), if original wiring is intact, works as follows: UP
- Ignition selector is live in both cockpits, DOWN - Rear selector is live, front
selector is dead.
> During restoration I prefer to re-wire the "P" leads to the front switch only
and remove all other wiring. The front seat then has the only operating ignition
selector. However many prefer to retain the original system and in that
case I placard the the rear cockpit control switch and witness wire it in the
UP position and also witness wire the rear selector in the 1+2 position. Witness
wire is pure copper and is easily broken if necessary. I also witness wire
the rear gear and flap selectors in the neutral position.
> If I can remember tomorrow I will take a photo of the control switch placards
and post it.
>
> Walt
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Tom Elliott
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 1:49 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos
>
>
> Almost correct on the Cj the rear mag switch is always in control. i.e. if it
is set to 0
> no spark The selector switch allows the front mag switch to be paralleled with
the rear.
>
>
> Tom Elliott
> CJ-6A NX63727
> 777 Quartz Ave
> PMB 7004
> Sandy Valley NV
> 89019
> Cell 702-595-2680
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> A. Dennis Savarese
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 1:13 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos
>
> Assuming you have a CJ, look at the attached photo. See the toggle
> switch just above the mag switch? In the UP position, the mag switch in
> the front cockpit has control. In the DOWN position the mag switch in
> the rear cockpit has control. It should be left in the UP position.
>
> Same is true for the Yak 52 except the 52's toggle switch is above the
> gear selector and has a metal 'guard' on both sides.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263
> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
> www.yak-52.com
> Skype - Yakguy1
>
>
> On 5/20/2012 3:00 PM, Espada wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Espada"<Espada42@yahoo.com>
>>
>> "Is the ignition selector switch in the aft cockpit set to the front seat? This
will give the
> front seat magneto control."
>>
>> - byronmfox
>>
>> Don't have a clue, Byron... how does one do this ? I'm not near the airport
right now, so
> can't look for a switch so designated; what's it called ( I'll feel pretty
stupid if I find one
> marked "Ignition switch for front cockpit" tomorrow) ?
>>
>> And thanks for the advice -
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373427#373427
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos |
Joe Enzminger wrote:
> I would advise against leaving the rear mag switch in the "on" position as a
matter of procedure. If the instructor switch is inadvertently flipped (as is
likely the case here), you now have a hot prop. Since we pull through our engines
as a matter of procedure, and since the consequence of a mistake can be
fatal, I would recommend safing both mag switches after shutdown.
>
> The very first thing I do in my preflight procedure, before touching anything
else, is to verify that both front and back mag switches are off. The last thing
I do before securing the airplane is to make sure both mag switches are off.
It may sound like overkill, but the design of our airplanes makes very easy
to inadvertently be in a hot mag situation.
>
> Joe Enzminger
You bet.
But I inadvertently confused this thread because I dialed in "Yak 52," and apparently
the CJ6 is lumped into it. Hence the various responses.
I'll be more specific next time. Thanks to all for the support. Glad I didn't
buy a screwup-prone hangar queen !
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373450#373450
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos |
Good point Joe.
That is why the control switch is wired to front and rear. Someone would
have to consciously break the wire to do that but you are right, it would be
better to turn off both front and rear switches. Best though is to
eliminate the rear cockpit control entirely.
Walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Espada
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 7:19 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Solo startup and shutdown, re front/rear magnetos
Joe Enzminger wrote:
> I would advise against leaving the rear mag switch in the "on" position as
> a matter of procedure. If the instructor switch is inadvertently flipped
> (as is likely the case here), you now have a hot prop. Since we pull
> through our engines as a matter of procedure, and since the consequence of
> a mistake can be fatal, I would recommend safing both mag switches after
> shutdown.
>
> The very first thing I do in my preflight procedure, before touching
> anything else, is to verify that both front and back mag switches are off.
> The last thing I do before securing the airplane is to make sure both mag
> switches are off. It may sound like overkill, but the design of our
> airplanes makes very easy to inadvertently be in a hot mag situation.
>
> Joe Enzminger
You bet.
But I inadvertently confused this thread because I dialed in "Yak 52," and
apparently the CJ6 is lumped into it. Hence the various responses.
I'll be more specific next time. Thanks to all for the support. Glad I
didn't buy a screwup-prone hangar queen !
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=373450#373450
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