Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:25 AM - Re: how not to crack your yak52 fuel tanks (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 04:58 AM - High oil temp (gord)
3. 05:17 AM - Re: High oil temp (Jan Mevis)
4. 05:40 AM - Re: High oil temp (gord)
5. 05:53 AM - Re: High oil temp (Richard Goode)
6. 05:53 AM - Re: High oil temp (Jan Mevis)
7. 06:18 AM - Re: High oil temp (cjpilot710@aol.com)
8. 06:35 AM - Re: High oil temp (Jan Mevis)
9. 07:54 AM - Re: how not to crack your yak52 fuel tanks (bob)
10. 08:21 AM - Re: High oil temp (Brian Lloyd)
11. 08:57 AM - Re: High oil temp (Warren Hill)
12. 09:40 AM - Re: High oil temp (Walter Lannon)
13. 09:53 AM - Re: High oil temp (Olivier Vigneron)
14. 10:30 AM - Re: High oil temp (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
15. 11:26 AM - Re: High oil temp (Roger Kemp M.D.)
16. 11:50 AM - Re: how not to crack your yak52 fuel tanks (bill wade)
17. 12:16 PM - Re: High oil temp (RICHARD VOLKER)
18. 12:40 PM - Re: how not to crack your yak52 fuel tanks (A. Dennis Savarese)
19. 12:57 PM - Re: High oil temp (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
20. 01:25 PM - Re: how not to crack your yak52 fuel tanks (A. Dennis Savarese)
21. 01:41 PM - Re: how not to crack your yak52 fuel tanks (Olivier Vigneron)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: how not to crack your yak52 fuel tanks |
Definitely not easy and to my knowledge, no kit is available.
Just to even think about it, the fuel tanks must have a capped off
fitting on the outboard, top end of the tanks. This is where the second
vent line is attached.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 6/11/2012 12:20 AM, Jeff Hove wrote:
>
> How hard is it to modify a single-vent Yak-52 to the newer dual-vent
> system? Are instructions or a kit available?
>
> Jeff Hove
>
> On 6/10/2012 1:49 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> It is my opinion the problem with the Yak 52 fuel tanks is the
>> flexing of the tank metal due to vapor expansion during hot
>> weather. This is prevalent in all Yak 52's with the single vent
>> tube on the belly of the airplane and very rarely seen on Yak 52's
>> with dual vent lines exiting the belly of the airplane. (Post 1989
>> manufacture). If the Yak 52 is left in the sun without venting the
>> fuel tanks by loosening the fuel caps, the expansion of the fuel
>> vapor causes the very thin fuel tank metal to expand, thus flexing
>> the fuel tank. The constant flexing and contracting during hot
>> weather ultimately causes the tank to fracture.
>>
>> Many (more than 50%) of the leaks appear around the weld points on
>> the bottom of the tank where the interior baffles are welded to the
>> exterior metal.
>>
>> I seriously doubt hard aerobatics would cause the tank to fracture
>> because the tank has several baffles inside the tank which prevent
>> the fuel from sloshing back and forth.
>>
>> I also doubt bumping on a grass field with full tanks would cause the
>> metal to crack.
>>
>> The constant flexing of the tank metal due to a very poor tank vent
>> system design is more likely the cause of the metal fracturing.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>> A. Dennis Savarese
>> 334-285-6263
>> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
>> www.yak-52.com
>> Skype - Yakguy1
>>
>>
>> On 6/10/2012 1:29 PM, Olivier Vigneron wrote:
>>> Hi All
>>>
>>> I encounter some difficulty with reccurents issues about gas tanks
>>> that are leaking.
>>>
>>> An aero welder told me that are the results of hard aerobatics with
>>> half full tanks . As the fuel is able to hit the tank wall.
>>>
>>> Yesterday a lituanian mechanic told me that are the results of
>>> bumping on grass field with full tanks on hot days.....
>>>
>>>
>>> Who's says the truth? The welder? The lituanian? both? :-)
>>>
>>> This discussion is about to make an aerobatics policy to avoid tank
>>> cracking !
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Olivier
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Now that we are into the summer temperatures my Yak 50 is up against the oil
temp red line after 10 min of aerobatics using Aeroshell W100. Any
solutions out there on cooling the oil. I have been running 11 qts. I am
wondering if I add more if it will just end up all over the belly or would
it help a bit. Also thinking of a second oil cooler. Does anyone have a
second cooler installation? Thanks Gord
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| Subject: | Re: High oil temp |
Which engine? M14P or M14PF? If the 360 horsepower, the original oil cooler
should be enough. Maybe have it checked (and thoroughly cleaned ?).
Jan
From: gord <gord@thedampub.ca>
Subject: Yak-List: High oil temp
Now that we are into the summer temperatures my Yak 50 is up against the oil
temp red line after 10 min of aerobatics using Aeroshell W100. Any solutions
out there on cooling the oil. I have been running 11 qts. I am wondering if
I add more if it will just end up all over the belly or would it help a bit.
Also thinking of a second oil cooler. Does anyone have a second cooler
installation? Thanks Gord
Message 4
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Ity is the original m14p engine
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: June-11-12 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: High oil temp
Which engine? M14P or M14PF? If the 360 horsepower, the original oil cooler
should be enough. Maybe have it checked (and thoroughly cleaned ?).
Jan
From: gord <gord@thedampub.ca>
Subject: Yak-List: High oil temp
Now that we are into the summer temperatures my Yak 50 is up against the oil
temp red line after 10 min of aerobatics using Aeroshell W100. Any
solutions out there on cooling the oil. I have been running 11 qts. I am
wondering if I add more if it will just end up all over the belly or would
it help a bit. Also thinking of a second oil cooler. Does anyone have a
second cooler installation? Thanks Gord
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
com
ronics.com/contribution
Message 5
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The standard oil cooler is fine for 360 HP. But a lot of these coolers are
20/30 years old, and have a layer of carbonised oil inside, effectively
insulating the hot oil from the metal cooling part. One can clean them with
certain chemicals, and also ultra--sonically, but, whatever you do to it, an
old cooler will never be as good as new one.
Also the standard oil cooler housing on the 50 is well into the air stream,
unlike a Sukhoi, where the oil has to go through a duct.
Of course, going to 400 HP will intrinsically mean hotter oil.
We have added a second (Western) oil cooler to the circuit, but the best
solution is to fit the gearbox oil cooler from the Mi-17 helicopter, which
is exactly the same design; same fittings, but 50% larger.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gord
Sent: 11 June 2012 12:54
Subject: Yak-List: High oil temp
Now that we are into the summer temperatures my Yak 50 is up against the oil
temp red line after 10 min of aerobatics using Aeroshell W100. Any
solutions out there on cooling the oil. I have been running 11 qts. I am
wondering if I add more if it will just end up all over the belly or would
it help a bit. Also thinking of a second oil cooler. Does anyone have a
second cooler installation? Thanks Gord
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: High oil temp |
Then the existing cooler should be enough, really.
Consider having the oil cooler cleaned? There are specialized companies
(look around in the car world).
Jan
From: gord <gord@thedampub.ca>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: High oil temp
Ity is the original m14p engine
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: June-11-12 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: High oil temp
Which engine? M14P or M14PF? If the 360 horsepower, the original oil cooler
should be enough. Maybe have it checked (and thoroughly cleaned ?).
Jan
From: gord <gord@thedampub.ca>
Subject: Yak-List: High oil temp
Now that we are into the summer temperatures my Yak 50 is up against the oil
temp red line after 10 min of aerobatics using Aeroshell W100. Any
solutions out there on cooling the oil. I have been running 11 qts. I am
wondering if I add more if it will just end up all over the belly or would
it help a bit. Also thinking of a second oil cooler. Does anyone have a
second cooler installation? Thanks Gord
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
com
ronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Subject: | Re: High oil temp |
What I've done and seem to work with a dirty cooler, is mix a solution of
"Gunk" degreaser (25%) and mineral spirits (75%). Spray it into the cooler
until you see it coming out the back. Let sit for a while (>5mins) than
flush with water. It is surprising how dirty they can get.
Also maybe going to W120 and putting a little more oil in the tank will
help.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 6/11/2012 8:54:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jan.mevis@informavia.be writes:
Then the existing cooler should be enough, really.
Consider having the oil cooler cleaned? There are specialized companies
(look around in the car world).
Jan
From: gord <_gord@thedampub.ca_ (mailto:gord@thedampub.ca) >
<_yak-list@matronics.com_ (mailto:yak-list@matronics.com) >
<_yak-list@matronics.com_ (mailto:yak-list@matronics.com) >
Subject: RE: Yak-List: High oil temp
Ity is the original m14p engine
____________________________________
From: _owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com) [_mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com) ] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: June-11-12 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: High oil temp
Which engine? M14P or M14PF? If the 360 horsepower, the original oil
cooler should be enough. Maybe have it checked (and thoroughly cleaned ?).
Jan
From: gord <_gord@thedampub.ca_ (mailto:gord@thedampub.ca) >
<_yak-list@matronics.com_ (mailto:yak-list@matronics.com) >
<_yak-list@matronics.com_ (mailto:yak-list@matronics.com) >
Subject: Yak-List: High oil temp
Now that we are into the summer temperatures my Yak 50 is up against the
oil temp red line after 10 min of aerobatics using Aeroshell W100. Any
solutions out there on cooling the oil. I have been running 11 qts. I am
wondering if I add more if it will just end up all over the belly or would it
help a bit. Also thinking of a second oil cooler. Does anyone have a second
cooler installation? Thanks Gord
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
com
ronics.com/contribution
_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List)
_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
com ronics.com/contribution
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: High oil temp |
The bigger oil cooler is nice, indeed (I have one) but it also implies
having the cooler cowling modified.
From: Richard Goode <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: High oil temp
The standard oil cooler is fine for 360 HP. But a lot of these coolers are
20/30 years old, and have a layer of carbonised oil inside, effectively
insulating the hot oil from the metal cooling part. One can clean them with
certain chemicals, and also ultra-=ADsonically, but, whatever you do to it, a
n
old cooler will never be as good as new one.
Also the standard oil cooler housing on the 50 is well into the air stream,
unlike a Sukhoi, where the oil has to go through a duct.
Of course, going to 400 HP will intrinsically mean hotter oil.
We have added a second (Western) oil cooler to the circuit, but the best
solution is to fit the gearbox oil cooler from the Mi-17 helicopter, which
is exactly the same design; same fittings, but 50% larger.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gord
Sent: 11 June 2012 12:54
Subject: Yak-List: High oil temp
Now that we are into the summer temperatures my Yak 50 is up against the oi
l
temp red line after 10 min of aerobatics using Aeroshell W100. Any
solutions out there on cooling the oil. I have been running 11 qts. I am
wondering if I add more if it will just end up all over the belly or would
it help a bit. Also thinking of a second oil cooler. Does anyone have a
second cooler installation? Thanks Gord
arch & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
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<; - List Contribution Web Site -
p; -Matt Dralle, List
Admin.http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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This message has been scanned for viruses and
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: how not to crack your yak52 fuel tanks |
There has been good advice on this topic from experienced sources.
Here is another view.
My Yak is a '93 model with dual vents, no Russian time and a balanced
prop. At about 250hrs it had a tank leak anyway.
My personal (unqualified) opinion puts the cause as acro with full
tanks. I am not a fan of violent acro (no snaps or tumbles) but pulling
6g on a full tank puts a lot of pressure on a very thin, flat bottomed
tank. After pulling and replacing the repaired tank i have been
religious about keeping g loads inversely proportionate to fuel loads.
That means don't pull hard with tanks over half full. Following that
practice for over 300hrs has resulted in no more leaks, so far. YMMV
Boris 52BN
PS It took a while to figure out the tank was leaking. For a time there
was a gas smell, only during acro, that we could not trace. Eventually
the crack expanded and fuel started dripping out of the wing. If you
pull G's and smell gas, it's time to check your tanks.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: High oil temp |
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 4:54 AM, gord <gord@thedampub.ca> wrote:
> Now that we are into the summer temperatures my Yak 50 is up against the
> oil temp red line after 10 min of aerobatics using Aeroshell W100. Any
> solutions out there on cooling the oil. I have been running 11 qts. I am
> wondering if I add more if it will just end up all over the belly or would
> it help a bit. Also thinking of a second oil cooler. Does anyone have a
> second cooler installation? Thanks Gord
>
I am going to blaspheme here and leave a thought for everyone. If you speak
with the oil manufacturers (Shell is pretty good about communicating) they
suggest a *MINIMUM* operating oil temperature of 80C. That is right -- they
say that oil should be at least 80C to work properly. Red line for the
inlet oil temperature is up above 120C. (It depends on how much temperature
rise the oil experiences going through the engine.) The CJ6A has an OUTLET
oil temp gauge and that is the one I always paid attention to. As long as
the outlet oil temp was below 120C I didn't care what the inlet temp got to.
Engine oil should be allowed to reach 100C at some point in its cycle
through the engine to "boil out" moisture that collects in the oil from
condensation of combustion products. I have no idea why the oil temp limits
on our aircraft are set so low but suspect that it was because the older
oils available when the aircraft were designed could not handle higher
operating temperatures. The oils we get now can and are expected to. And
after all, it is the oil we are protecting from high-temperature breakdown
and coking, not the engine itself.
So, just between you and me, IMHO inlet oil temps reaching a "red line" of
85C is nothing to worry about.
YMMV
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: High oil temp |
Agree completely.
Replaced my original CJ oil cooler with a new one from Doug Sapp and oil
temps immediately came under control.
I seriously doubt that it would ever be possible to properly clean the
inside of the original one.
Warren Hill
On Jun 11, 2012, at 5:50 AM, Richard Goode wrote:
> The standard oil cooler is fine for 360 HP. But a lot of these coolers
are 20/30 years old, and have a layer of carbonised oil inside,
effectively insulating the hot oil from the metal cooling part. One can
clean them with certain chemicals, and also ultra-'sonically, but,
whatever you do to it, an old cooler will never be as good as new one.
>
> Also the standard oil cooler housing on the 50 is well into the air
stream, unlike a Sukhoi, where the oil has to go through a duct.
>
> Of course, going to 400 HP will intrinsically mean hotter oil.
>
> We have added a second (Western) oil cooler to the circuit, but the
best solution is to fit the gearbox oil cooler from the Mi-17
helicopter, which is exactly the same design; same fittings, but 50%
larger.
>
> Richard Goode
> Rhodds Farm
> Lyonshall
> Hereford
> HR5 3LW
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
> www.russianaeros.com
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gord
> Sent: 11 June 2012 12:54
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: High oil temp
>
> Now that we are into the summer temperatures my Yak 50 is up against
the oil temp red line after 10 min of aerobatics using Aeroshell W100.
Any solutions out there on cooling the oil. I have been running 11 qts.
I am wondering if I add more if it will just end up all over the belly
or would it help a bit. Also thinking of a second oil cooler. Does
anyone have a second cooler installation? Thanks Gord
>
>
> arch & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
> ; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> ums.matronics.com
> <; - List Contribution Web Site -
> p; -Matt Dralle, List
Admin.http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by Invictawiz MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: High oil temp |
I have no idea of the oil tank capacity on the Yak 50 but, since it is
using the M14 engine, it should be equivalent to similar installations.
The CJ6 (with a lower powered engine) oil tank has a max. capacity of 19
liters and a normal full capacity of 17 liters plus the necessary air
space. In other military aircraft with radial engines the typical
minimum capacity is 0.6 X full. The reason of course is to maintain
adequate oil cooling. Based on this the CJ minimum would be 10 liters
and I would approach that with some caution.
I would suggest that your oil capacity is far too low for the engine,
especially at high power settings and OAT. In addition to maintaining
an adequate oil supply you could change to Aeroshell 120W or Phillips
X/C 25W60 which would help a bit.
Walt
From: gord
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 4:54 AM
Subject: Yak-List: High oil temp
Now that we are into the summer temperatures my Yak 50 is up against the
oil temp red line after 10 min of aerobatics using Aeroshell W100. Any
solutions out there on cooling the oil. I have been running 11 qts. I
am wondering if I add more if it will just end up all over the belly or
would it help a bit. Also thinking of a second oil cooler. Does anyone
have a second cooler installation? Thanks Gord
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: High oil temp |
But If you put more than 10liters during acro you will dump all the oil out
each time you ll go inverted....
2012/6/11 Walter Lannon <wlannon@shaw.ca>
> I have no idea of the oil tank capacity on the Yak 50 but, since it is
> using the M14 engine, it should be equivalent to similar installations.
>
> The CJ6 (with a lower powered engine) oil tank has a max. capacity of 19
> liters and a normal full capacity of 17 liters plus the necessary air
> space. In other military aircraft with radial engines the typical minimum
> capacity is 0.6 X full. The reason of course is to maintain adequate oil
> cooling. Based on this the CJ minimum would be 10 liters and I would
> approach that with some caution.
>
> I would suggest that your oil capacity is far too low for the engine,
> especially at high power settings and OAT. In addition to maintaining an
> adequate oil supply you could change to Aeroshell 120W or Phillips X/C
> 25W60 which would help a bit.
>
> Walt
>
>
> *From:* gord <gord@thedampub.ca>
> *Sent:* Monday, June 11, 2012 4:54 AM
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Yak-List: High oil temp
>
>
> Now that we are into the summer temperatures my Yak 50 is up against the
> oil temp red line after 10 min of aerobatics using Aeroshell W100. Any
> solutions out there on cooling the oil. I have been running 11 qts. I am
> wondering if I add more if it will just end up all over the belly or would
> it help a bit. Also thinking of a second oil cooler. Does anyone have a
> second cooler installation? Thanks Gord****
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 14
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Pretty much all M-14 oil tanks are the same in my experience Walt. I
have seen them on 50's, 52's, 55's, Sukhoi 26's, 29's, 31's. They
appear to all be identical.
They are not easy to replace with a bigger model, the internals are
rather complicated for the inverted flight aspect.
Minimum is 9 liters. As I remember, full is 15 liters.
Running it above 9 or 10 with hard aerobatic flight usually results in
some venting of the oil so the common standard procedure is to keep it
at 9 or 10 for that type of flight.
I am a firm believer in Phillips X/C 25W60 I do not run heavy straight
weight oil as it is harder to get OUT of the engine when you are
initially starting and are pulling through the prop, or if some gets
into the intake tubes on a cool day.
Most folks doing SERIOUS aerobatics usually run these engines right up
at 100%. Oh... in case anyone wishes to debate the logic of this,
please do not.
In the summertime, I have never seen an M-14P, especially an M-14PF
where oil temp does not get right to the red line after about 10 minutes
of hard aerobatics at 95-100% power settings. The typical approach to
helping to reduce this effect is to remove them and have them internally
cleaned (external cleaning is also wise), or to replace them, or to get
a bigger one! (Richard Goode's comments)
My personal approach is rather unusual. I have put the thermal valve
BACK INTO the oil cooler. This was removed from YAK-50 Oil Coolers at
one point in their construction evolution. This causes a few things to
happen.
1. The engine oil comes up to temp much more quickly on a cool/cold
day. It also makes a cold engine start somewhat safer.
2. The engine oil comes up to the red line more slowly in hard
aerobatics. It still gets there, but it takes a little longer. Once it
GETS there, it takes the same amount of time and effort to get it to
come back down again. The logic of this is clear to anyone that has
messed with heat transfer in radiators (it's the same in cars) using
temperature controlled valves.
I am not recommending this change. It happened to me by accident
really. But I kept it. Anyway, it really does seem to help.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: High oil temp
I have no idea of the oil tank capacity on the Yak 50 but, since it is
using the M14 engine, it should be equivalent to similar installations.
The CJ6 (with a lower powered engine) oil tank has a max. capacity of 19
liters and a normal full capacity of 17 liters plus the necessary air
space. In other military aircraft with radial engines the typical
minimum capacity is 0.6 X full. The reason of course is to maintain
adequate oil cooling. Based on this the CJ minimum would be 10 liters
and I would approach that with some caution.
I would suggest that your oil capacity is far too low for the engine,
especially at high power settings and OAT. In addition to maintaining
an adequate oil supply you could change to Aeroshell 120W or Phillips
X/C 25W60 which would help a bit.
Walt
From: gord <mailto:gord@thedampub.ca>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 4:54 AM
Subject: Yak-List: High oil temp
Now that we are into the summer temperatures my Yak 50 is up against the
oil temp red line after 10 min of aerobatics using Aeroshell W100. Any
solutions out there on cooling the oil. I have been running 11 qts. I
am wondering if I add more if it will just end up all over the belly or
would it help a bit. Also thinking of a second oil cooler. Does anyone
have a second cooler installation? Thanks Gord
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: High oil temp |
16 liters
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 11, 2012, at 11:35 AM, "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@shaw.ca> wrote:
> I have no idea of the oil tank capacity on the Yak 50 but, since it is usi
ng the M14 engine, it should be equivalent to similar installations.
>
> The CJ6 (with a lower powered engine) oil tank has a max. capacity of 19 l
iters and a normal full capacity of 17 liters plus the necessary air space.
In other military aircraft with radial engines the typical minimum capacity
is 0.6 X full. The reason of course is to maintain adequate oil cooling. B
ased on this the CJ minimum would be 10 liters and I would approach that wi
th some caution.
>
> I would suggest that your oil capacity is far too low for the engine, espe
cially at high power settings and OAT. In addition to maintaining an adequ
ate oil supply you could change to Aeroshell 120W or Phillips X/C 25W60 whic
h would help a bit.
>
> Walt
>
>
>
>
>
> From: gord
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 4:54 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: High oil temp
>
> Now that we are into the summer temperatures my Yak 50 is up against the o
il temp red line after 10 min of aerobatics using Aeroshell W100. Any solut
ions out there on cooling the oil. I have been running 11 qts. I am wonderi
ng if I add more if it will just end up all over the belly or would it help a
bit. Also thinking of a second oil cooler. Does anyone have a second coole
r installation? Thanks Gord
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: how not to crack your yak52 fuel tanks |
Dennis weren't you providing bladder tanks for the Yak 52? how are they hol
ding up? the guys and gals that purchased doing a lot of acro?=0ABill Wade
=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsa
varese0812@bellsouth.net>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, Jun
e 11, 2012 7:21 AM=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: how not to crack your yak52 fue
ese0812@bellsouth.net>=0A=0ADefinitely not easy and to my knowledge, no kit
is available.=0A=0AJust to even think about it, the fuel tanks must have a
capped off fitting on the outboard, top end of the tanks.- This is where
the second vent line is attached.=0ADennis=0A=0AA. Dennis Savarese=0A334-2
85-6263=0A334-546-8182 (mobile)=0Awww.yak-52.com=0ASkype - Yakguy1=0A=0A=0A
Jeff Hove <flying@jeffhove.com>=0A> =0A> How hard is it to modify a single
-vent Yak-52 to the newer dual-vent system?- Are instructions or a kit av
ailable?=0A> =0A> Jeff Hove=0A> =0A> On 6/10/2012 1:49 PM, A. Dennis Savare
ese0812@bellsouth.net>=0A>> =0A>> It is my opinion the problem with the Yak
52 fuel tanks is the flexing of the tank metal due to vapor expansion duri
ng hot weather.- This is prevalent in all Yak 52's with the single vent
tube on the belly of the airplane and very rarely seen on Yak 52's with dua
l vent lines exiting the belly of the airplane.- (Post 1989 manufacture).
- If the Yak 52 is left in the sun without venting the fuel tanks by loos
ening the fuel caps, the expansion of the fuel vapor causes the very thin f
uel tank metal to expand, thus flexing the fuel tank.- The constant flexi
ng and contracting during hot weather ultimately causes the tank to fractur
e.=0A>> =0A>> Many (more than 50%) of the leaks appear around the weld poin
ts on the bottom of the tank where the interior baffles are welded to the e
xterior metal.=0A>> =0A>> I seriously doubt hard aerobatics would cause the
tank to fracture because the tank has several baffles inside the tank whic
h prevent the fuel from sloshing back and forth.=0A>> =0A>> I also doubt bu
mping on a grass field with full tanks would cause the metal to crack.=0A>>
=0A>> The constant flexing of the tank metal due to a very poor tank vent
system design is more likely the cause of the metal fracturing.=0A>> =0A>>
Dennis=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> A. Dennis Savarese=0A>> 334-285-6263=0A>> 334-546-8
182 (mobile)=0A>> www.yak-52.com=0A>> Skype - Yakguy1=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> On 6
/10/2012 1:29 PM, Olivier Vigneron wrote:=0A>>> Hi All=0A>>> =0A>>> I encou
nter some difficulty with reccurents issues about gas tanks that are leakin
g.=0A>>> =0A>>> An aero welder told me that are the results of hard aerobat
ics with half full tanks . As the fuel is able to hit the tank wall.=0A>>>
=0A>>>- Yesterday a lituanian mechanic told me that are the results of bu
mping on grass field with full tanks on hot days.....=0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>> W
ho's says the truth? The welder? The lituanian? both? :-)=0A>>> =0A>>> This
discussion is about to make an aerobatics policy to avoid tank cracking !
=0A>>> =0A>>> Thanks=0A>>> =0A>>> Olivier=0A>>> *=0A>>> =0A>>> =0A>>> *=0A>
-========================
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List
======
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: High oil temp |
I run 11 liters in my Sukhoi for Airshow flights and practice , and will use 12
or 13 liters in if really hot. I dont get any more oil blowing out than when
i run 9 liters. Nikolai Timofeev does this and swears by it. If you are doing
shows, no matter what you put in your contract, half the time they only have
W100 on hand. So what Nikolai does is put about 20 quarts of W100 in the contract
and he changes the oil at the show, after running hot oil temps.
Rick VOLKER
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 11, 2012, at 1:27 PM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
>
> Pretty much all M-14 oil tanks are the same in my experience Walt. I
> have seen them on 50's, 52's, 55's, Sukhoi 26's, 29's, 31's. They
> appear to all be identical.
>
> They are not easy to replace with a bigger model, the internals are
> rather complicated for the inverted flight aspect.
>
> Minimum is 9 liters. As I remember, full is 15 liters.
>
> Running it above 9 or 10 with hard aerobatic flight usually results in
> some venting of the oil so the common standard procedure is to keep it
> at 9 or 10 for that type of flight.
>
> I am a firm believer in Phillips X/C 25W60 I do not run heavy straight
> weight oil as it is harder to get OUT of the engine when you are
> initially starting and are pulling through the prop, or if some gets
> into the intake tubes on a cool day.
>
> Most folks doing SERIOUS aerobatics usually run these engines right up
> at 100%. Oh... in case anyone wishes to debate the logic of this,
> please do not.
>
> In the summertime, I have never seen an M-14P, especially an M-14PF
> where oil temp does not get right to the red line after about 10 minutes
> of hard aerobatics at 95-100% power settings. The typical approach to
> helping to reduce this effect is to remove them and have them internally
> cleaned (external cleaning is also wise), or to replace them, or to get
> a bigger one! (Richard Goode's comments)
>
> My personal approach is rather unusual. I have put the thermal valve
> BACK INTO the oil cooler. This was removed from YAK-50 Oil Coolers at
> one point in their construction evolution. This causes a few things to
> happen.
>
> 1. The engine oil comes up to temp much more quickly on a cool/cold
> day. It also makes a cold engine start somewhat safer.
> 2. The engine oil comes up to the red line more slowly in hard
> aerobatics. It still gets there, but it takes a little longer. Once it
> GETS there, it takes the same amount of time and effort to get it to
> come back down again. The logic of this is clear to anyone that has
> messed with heat transfer in radiators (it's the same in cars) using
> temperature controlled valves.
>
> I am not recommending this change. It happened to me by accident
> really. But I kept it. Anyway, it really does seem to help.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 12:36 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: High oil temp
>
> I have no idea of the oil tank capacity on the Yak 50 but, since it is
> using the M14 engine, it should be equivalent to similar installations.
>
> The CJ6 (with a lower powered engine) oil tank has a max. capacity of 19
> liters and a normal full capacity of 17 liters plus the necessary air
> space. In other military aircraft with radial engines the typical
> minimum capacity is 0.6 X full. The reason of course is to maintain
> adequate oil cooling. Based on this the CJ minimum would be 10 liters
> and I would approach that with some caution.
>
> I would suggest that your oil capacity is far too low for the engine,
> especially at high power settings and OAT. In addition to maintaining
> an adequate oil supply you could change to Aeroshell 120W or Phillips
> X/C 25W60 which would help a bit.
>
> Walt
>
>
>
>
>
> From: gord <mailto:gord@thedampub.ca>
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 4:54 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: High oil temp
>
>
> Now that we are into the summer temperatures my Yak 50 is up against the
> oil temp red line after 10 min of aerobatics using Aeroshell W100. Any
> solutions out there on cooling the oil. I have been running 11 qts. I
> am wondering if I add more if it will just end up all over the belly or
> would it help a bit. Also thinking of a second oil cooler. Does anyone
> have a second cooler installation? Thanks Gord
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.
> com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: how not to crack your yak52 fuel tanks |
Yes, we still offer the bladder tanks and they seem to do quite well. I
can't answer the question as to whether they are doing a lot of acro or
not. The primary purpose of the bladders was to increase the very
limited fuel range of the 52. We also recommend when installing the
bladders, no acro with more than the standard fuel capacity of the
original metal tanks. I do know a couple of the guys on one of the
Yak/CJ demo teams that installed the bladders. They commented that
everything was doing well.
One thing for certain, the bladders are filled with fuel proof foam
which eliminates any sloshing of the fuel. You can see this on my web
site, www.yak-52.com and click on the button at the top 'Yak 52 Fuel
Bladders'.
Here's a photo of one of the bladders. You can see the blue foam inside
the oval filler plate opening.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 6/11/2012 1:46 PM, bill wade wrote:
> Dennis weren't you providing bladder tanks for the Yak 52? how are
> they holding up? the guys and gals that purchased doing a lot of acro?
> Bill Wade
>
> *From:* A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, June 11, 2012 7:21 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Yak-List: how not to crack your yak52 fuel tanks
>
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net <mailto:dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>>
>
> Definitely not easy and to my knowledge, no kit is available.
>
> Just to even think about it, the fuel tanks must have a capped off
> fitting on the outboard, top end of the tanks. This is where the
> second vent line is attached.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263
> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
> www.yak-52.com <http://www.yak-52.com>
> Skype - Yakguy1
>
>
> On 6/11/2012 12:20 AM, Jeff Hove wrote:
> <mailto:flying@jeffhove.com>>
> >
> > How hard is it to modify a single-vent Yak-52 to the newer dual-vent
> system? Are instructions or a kit available?
> >
> > Jeff Hove
> >
> > On 6/10/2012 1:49 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net <mailto:dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>>
> >>
> >> It is my opinion the problem with the Yak 52 fuel tanks is the
> flexing of the tank metal due to vapor expansion during hot weather.
> This is prevalent in all Yak 52's with the single vent tube on the
> belly of the airplane and very rarely seen on Yak 52's with dual vent
> lines exiting the belly of the airplane. (Post 1989 manufacture). If
> the Yak 52 is left in the sun without venting the fuel tanks by
> loosening the fuel caps, the expansion of the fuel vapor causes the
> very thin fuel tank metal to expand, thus flexing the fuel tank. The
> constant flexing and contracting during hot weather ultimately causes
> the tank to fracture.
> >>
> >> Many (more than 50%) of the leaks appear around the weld points on
> the bottom of the tank where the interior baffles are welded to the
> exterior metal.
> >>
> >> I seriously doubt hard aerobatics would cause the tank to fracture
> because the tank has several baffles inside the tank which prevent the
> fuel from sloshing back and forth.
> >>
> >> I also doubt bumping on a grass field with full tanks would cause
> the metal to crack.
> >>
> >> The constant flexing of the tank metal due to a very poor tank vent
> system design is more likely the cause of the metal fracturing.
> >>
> >> Dennis
> >>
> >>
> >> A. Dennis Savarese
> >> 334-285-6263
> >> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
> >> www.yak-52.com
> >> Skype - Yakguy1
> >>
> >>
> >> On 6/10/2012 1:29 PM, Olivier Vigneron wrote:
> >>> Hi All
> >>>
> >>> I encounter some difficulty with reccurents issues about gas tanks
> that are leaking.
> >>>
> >>> An aero welder told me that are the results of hard aerobatics
> with half full tanks . As the fuel is able to hit the tank wall.
> >>>
> >>> Yesterday a lituanian mechanic told me that are the results of
> bumping on grass field with full tanks on hot days.....
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Who's says the truth? The welder? The lituanian? both? :-)
> >>>
> >>> This discussion is about to make an aerobatics policy to avoid
> tank cracking !
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> Olivier
> >>> *
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> id="misspell-19" class="mark">Photoshare, and much much
> more:http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-ListDralle
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 19
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Smart.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RICHARD VOLKER
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: High oil temp
I run 11 liters in my Sukhoi for Airshow flights and practice , and will
use 12 or 13 liters in if really hot. I dont get any more oil blowing
out than when i run 9 liters. Nikolai Timofeev does this and swears by
it. If you are doing shows, no matter what you put in your contract,
half the time they only have W100 on hand. So what Nikolai does is put
about 20 quarts of W100 in the contract and he changes the oil at the
show, after running hot oil temps.
Rick VOLKER
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 11, 2012, at 1:27 PM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Pretty much all M-14 oil tanks are the same in my experience Walt. I
> have seen them on 50's, 52's, 55's, Sukhoi 26's, 29's, 31's. They
> appear to all be identical.
>
> They are not easy to replace with a bigger model, the internals are
> rather complicated for the inverted flight aspect.
>
> Minimum is 9 liters. As I remember, full is 15 liters.
>
> Running it above 9 or 10 with hard aerobatic flight usually results in
> some venting of the oil so the common standard procedure is to keep it
> at 9 or 10 for that type of flight.
>
> I am a firm believer in Phillips X/C 25W60 I do not run heavy
straight
> weight oil as it is harder to get OUT of the engine when you are
> initially starting and are pulling through the prop, or if some gets
> into the intake tubes on a cool day.
>
> Most folks doing SERIOUS aerobatics usually run these engines right up
> at 100%. Oh... in case anyone wishes to debate the logic of this,
> please do not.
>
> In the summertime, I have never seen an M-14P, especially an M-14PF
> where oil temp does not get right to the red line after about 10
minutes
> of hard aerobatics at 95-100% power settings. The typical approach to
> helping to reduce this effect is to remove them and have them
internally
> cleaned (external cleaning is also wise), or to replace them, or to
get
> a bigger one! (Richard Goode's comments)
>
> My personal approach is rather unusual. I have put the thermal valve
> BACK INTO the oil cooler. This was removed from YAK-50 Oil Coolers at
> one point in their construction evolution. This causes a few things to
> happen.
>
> 1. The engine oil comes up to temp much more quickly on a cool/cold
> day. It also makes a cold engine start somewhat safer.
> 2. The engine oil comes up to the red line more slowly in hard
> aerobatics. It still gets there, but it takes a little longer. Once
it
> GETS there, it takes the same amount of time and effort to get it to
> come back down again. The logic of this is clear to anyone that has
> messed with heat transfer in radiators (it's the same in cars) using
> temperature controlled valves.
>
> I am not recommending this change. It happened to me by accident
> really. But I kept it. Anyway, it really does seem to help.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter
Lannon
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 12:36 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: High oil temp
>
> I have no idea of the oil tank capacity on the Yak 50 but, since it is
> using the M14 engine, it should be equivalent to similar
installations.
>
> The CJ6 (with a lower powered engine) oil tank has a max. capacity of
19
> liters and a normal full capacity of 17 liters plus the necessary air
> space. In other military aircraft with radial engines the typical
> minimum capacity is 0.6 X full. The reason of course is to maintain
> adequate oil cooling. Based on this the CJ minimum would be 10 liters
> and I would approach that with some caution.
>
> I would suggest that your oil capacity is far too low for the engine,
> especially at high power settings and OAT. In addition to
maintaining
> an adequate oil supply you could change to Aeroshell 120W or Phillips
> X/C 25W60 which would help a bit.
>
> Walt
>
>
>
>
>
> From: gord <mailto:gord@thedampub.ca>
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 4:54 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: High oil temp
>
>
> Now that we are into the summer temperatures my Yak 50 is up against
the
> oil temp red line after 10 min of aerobatics using Aeroshell W100.
Any
> solutions out there on cooling the oil. I have been running 11 qts. I
> am wondering if I add more if it will just end up all over the belly
or
> would it help a bit. Also thinking of a second oil cooler. Does
anyone
> have a second cooler installation? Thanks Gord
>
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.
> com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: how not to crack your yak52 fuel tanks |
I guess the photo did not make it.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 6/11/2012 2:36 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> Yes, we still offer the bladder tanks and they seem to do quite well.
> I can't answer the question as to whether they are doing a lot of acro
> or not. The primary purpose of the bladders was to increase the very
> limited fuel range of the 52. We also recommend when installing the
> bladders, no acro with more than the standard fuel capacity of the
> original metal tanks. I do know a couple of the guys on one of the
> Yak/CJ demo teams that installed the bladders. They commented that
> everything was doing well.
>
> One thing for certain, the bladders are filled with fuel proof foam
> which eliminates any sloshing of the fuel. You can see this on my
> web site, www.yak-52.com and click on the button at the top 'Yak 52
> Fuel Bladders'.
>
> Here's a photo of one of the bladders. You can see the blue foam
> inside the oval filler plate opening.
>
>
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263
> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
> www.yak-52.com
> Skype - Yakguy1
>
>
> On 6/11/2012 1:46 PM, bill wade wrote:
>> Dennis weren't you providing bladder tanks for the Yak 52? how are
>> they holding up? the guys and gals that purchased doing a lot of acro?
>> Bill Wade
>>
>> *From:* A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 11, 2012 7:21 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: Yak-List: how not to crack your yak52 fuel tanks
>>
>> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net <mailto:dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>>
>>
>> Definitely not easy and to my knowledge, no kit is available.
>>
>> Just to even think about it, the fuel tanks must have a capped off
>> fitting on the outboard, top end of the tanks. This is where the
>> second vent line is attached.
>> Dennis
>>
>> A. Dennis Savarese
>> 334-285-6263
>> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
>> www.yak-52.com <http://www.yak-52.com>
>> Skype - Yakguy1
>>
>>
>> On 6/11/2012 12:20 AM, Jeff Hove wrote:
>> <mailto:flying@jeffhove.com>>
>> >
>> > How hard is it to modify a single-vent Yak-52 to the newer
>> dual-vent system? Are instructions or a kit available?
>> >
>> > Jeff Hove
>> >
>> > On 6/10/2012 1:49 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net <mailto:dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>>
>> >>
>> >> It is my opinion the problem with the Yak 52 fuel tanks is the
>> flexing of the tank metal due to vapor expansion during hot weather.
>> This is prevalent in all Yak 52's with the single vent tube on the
>> belly of the airplane and very rarely seen on Yak 52's with dual vent
>> lines exiting the belly of the airplane. (Post 1989 manufacture).
>> If the Yak 52 is left in the sun without venting the fuel tanks by
>> loosening the fuel caps, the expansion of the fuel vapor causes the
>> very thin fuel tank metal to expand, thus flexing the fuel tank. The
>> constant flexing and contracting during hot weather ultimately causes
>> the tank to fracture.
>> >>
>> >> Many (more than 50%) of the leaks appear around the weld points on
>> the bottom of the tank where the interior baffles are welded to the
>> exterior metal.
>> >>
>> >> I seriously doubt hard aerobatics would cause the tank to fracture
>> because the tank has several baffles inside the tank which prevent
>> the fuel from sloshing back and forth.
>> >>
>> >> I also doubt bumping on a grass field with full tanks would cause
>> the metal to crack.
>> >>
>> >> The constant flexing of the tank metal due to a very poor tank
>> vent system design is more likely the cause of the metal fracturing.
>> >>
>> >> Dennis
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> A. Dennis Savarese
>> >> 334-285-6263
>> >> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
>> >> www.yak-52.com
>> >> Skype - Yakguy1
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 6/10/2012 1:29 PM, Olivier Vigneron wrote:
>> >>> Hi All
>> >>>
>> >>> I encounter some difficulty with reccurents issues about gas
>> tanks that are leaking.
>> >>>
>> >>> An aero welder told me that are the results of hard aerobatics
>> with half full tanks . As the fuel is able to hit the tank wall.
>> >>>
>> >>> Yesterday a lituanian mechanic told me that are the results of
>> bumping on grass field with full tanks on hot days.....
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Who's says the truth? The welder? The lituanian? both? :-)
>> >>>
>> >>> This discussion is about to make an aerobatics policy to avoid
>> tank cracking !
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks
>> >>>
>> >>> Olivier
>> >>> *
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> *
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> id="misspell-19" class="mark">Photoshare, and much much
>> more:http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-ListDralle
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: how not to crack your yak52 fuel tanks |
unfortunately, my yak is Lithuanian registered and Termikas don't allow
this modification. They are selling their full tank wings......
For the next future, when my yak will French registered, this bladders have
quite no chance to be allowed too...very sad but it's like that.
2012/6/11 A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> I guess the photo did not make it.
>
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263
> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
> www.yak-52.com
> Skype - Yakguy1
>
>
> On 6/11/2012 2:36 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> Yes, we still offer the bladder tanks and they seem to do quite well.
>> I can't answer the question as to whether they are doing a lot of acro
>> or not. The primary purpose of the bladders was to increase the very
>> limited fuel range of the 52. We also recommend when installing the
>> bladders, no acro with more than the standard fuel capacity of the
>> original metal tanks. I do know a couple of the guys on one of the
>> Yak/CJ demo teams that installed the bladders. They commented that
>> everything was doing well.
>>
>> One thing for certain, the bladders are filled with fuel proof foam
>> which eliminates any sloshing of the fuel. You can see this on my
>> web site, www.yak-52.com and click on the button at the top 'Yak 52
>> Fuel Bladders'.
>>
>> Here's a photo of one of the bladders. You can see the blue foam
>> inside the oval filler plate opening.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>> A. Dennis Savarese
>> 334-285-6263
>> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
>> www.yak-52.com
>> Skype - Yakguy1
>>
>>
>> On 6/11/2012 1:46 PM, bill wade wrote:
>>
>>> Dennis weren't you providing bladder tanks for the Yak 52? how are
>>> they holding up? the guys and gals that purchased doing a lot of acro?
>>> Bill Wade
>>>
>>> *From:* A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>>> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
>>> *Sent:* Monday, June 11, 2012 7:21 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: Yak-List: how not to crack your yak52 fuel tanks
>>>
>>> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net <mailto:dsavarese0812@**bellsouth.net<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>>> >>
>>>
>>> Definitely not easy and to my knowledge, no kit is available.
>>>
>>> Just to even think about it, the fuel tanks must have a capped off
>>> fitting on the outboard, top end of the tanks. This is where the
>>> second vent line is attached.
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>> A. Dennis Savarese
>>> 334-285-6263
>>> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
>>> www.yak-52.com <http://www.yak-52.com>
>>> Skype - Yakguy1
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/11/2012 12:20 AM, Jeff Hove wrote:
>>> <mailto:flying@jeffhove.com>>
>>> >
>>> > How hard is it to modify a single-vent Yak-52 to the newer
>>> dual-vent system? Are instructions or a kit available?
>>> >
>>> > Jeff Hove
>>> >
>>> > On 6/10/2012 1:49 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>>> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net <mailto:dsavarese0812@**bellsouth.net<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> It is my opinion the problem with the Yak 52 fuel tanks is the
>>> flexing of the tank metal due to vapor expansion during hot weather.
>>> This is prevalent in all Yak 52's with the single vent tube on the
>>> belly of the airplane and very rarely seen on Yak 52's with dual vent
>>> lines exiting the belly of the airplane. (Post 1989 manufacture).
>>> If the Yak 52 is left in the sun without venting the fuel tanks by
>>> loosening the fuel caps, the expansion of the fuel vapor causes the
>>> very thin fuel tank metal to expand, thus flexing the fuel tank. The
>>> constant flexing and contracting during hot weather ultimately causes
>>> the tank to fracture.
>>> >>
>>> >> Many (more than 50%) of the leaks appear around the weld points on
>>> the bottom of the tank where the interior baffles are welded to the
>>> exterior metal.
>>> >>
>>> >> I seriously doubt hard aerobatics would cause the tank to fracture
>>> because the tank has several baffles inside the tank which prevent
>>> the fuel from sloshing back and forth.
>>> >>
>>> >> I also doubt bumping on a grass field with full tanks would cause
>>> the metal to crack.
>>> >>
>>> >> The constant flexing of the tank metal due to a very poor tank
>>> vent system design is more likely the cause of the metal fracturing.
>>> >>
>>> >> Dennis
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> A. Dennis Savarese
>>> >> 334-285-6263
>>> >> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
>>> >> www.yak-52.com
>>> >> Skype - Yakguy1
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On 6/10/2012 1:29 PM, Olivier Vigneron wrote:
>>> >>> Hi All
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I encounter some difficulty with reccurents issues about gas
>>> tanks that are leaking.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> An aero welder told me that are the results of hard aerobatics
>>> with half full tanks . As the fuel is able to hit the tank wall.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Yesterday a lituanian mechanic told me that are the results of
>>> bumping on grass field with full tanks on hot days.....
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Who's says the truth? The welder? The lituanian? both? :-)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> This discussion is about to make an aerobatics policy to avoid
>>> tank cracking !
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Thanks
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Olivier
>>> >>> *
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> *
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> id="misspell-19" class="mark">Photoshare, and much much
>>> more:http://www.matronics.com/**Navigator?Yak-ListDralle<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-ListDralle>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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