Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:28 AM - Re: Air compressor overhaul (Jill Gernetzke)
2. 08:13 AM - Re: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
3. 08:47 AM - MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Dale)
4. 09:04 AM - Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Richard Goode)
5. 10:38 AM - Re: Re: OSH trip (hess737@aol.com)
6. 10:40 AM - Re: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller (Sam Sax)
7. 11:10 AM - Re: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
8. 12:17 PM - Re: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
9. 12:48 PM - MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Cpayne)
10. 01:22 PM - Re: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller (Warren Hill)
11. 01:48 PM - Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Dale)
12. 02:14 PM - Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Herb Coussons)
13. 06:20 PM - Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (kevin kimball)
14. 07:14 PM - Re: Re: OSH trip (cjpilot710@aol.com)
15. 07:57 PM - Re: Re: OSH trip (hess737@aol.com)
16. 08:40 PM - Re: Re: OSH trip (cjpilot710@aol.com)
17. 09:32 PM - Cylinder Base Nut Wrench/Nanchang Tools WANTED (bmiles)
18. 09:38 PM - Re: OSH trip (cjpilot710@aol.com)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Air compressor overhaul |
Bill & Group,
We overhaul air compressors here. We are also re-sleeving the Stage I
heads. We have not come up with a suitable fix for stripped threads at the
outlet valve port, though/ The hole is asymmetric, so you have more
material on part of the radius than others. Helicoil is not a viable
option, unless someone else out there has had success.
If anyone is wondering about our support of the Yak & M-14P community, here
are some of the things we do:
M-14P:
- Major repairs including prop strike/hydraulic lock teardown
- Full overhaul
- Accessory overhaul:
Magnetos
Carburetor
Fuel Pump
Oil Pump
Prop governor
Air compressor
-Compressor shear coupling repair
- Cylinder repair:
Guide replacement
Valve grinding & seating
Exhaust port repair
New, M-14P, Inc. rocker covers
-Automotive spark plug adaptor kit
-Nosecase seal replacement ****Flat rate with parts and labor
-Magneto modifications
Rewound coils with external capacitor
High performance auto points conversion
-Hose fabrication
Airframe:
-Hydrostatic testing of air bottles
-Electric trim system: Ailerons and elevators
-Tach Board for EFIS System
- Pneumatic system component overhauls
-Flap & landing gear actuators
-Flap & gear valves
-Uplock cylinders
-Fabric
- Coming soon: New Manufacture Fuel gauge and sending units
Propeller:
-Prop hub overhaul
-Static balancing
-M-14P, Inc. Carbon fiber V-530C blades *****Running OSHKOSH Special from
7/23thru 7/29/12******$500 off a Pair of Blades
Parts Support: We manufacture over 300 parts for the M-14P and Yak 52.
We are working on our new webstore to enable customers to see our vast
inventory and also shop with ease. The website will also be underrehab.
Best regards,
Jill
M-14P, Inc.
www.m-14p.com
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller |
Sam,
Understood on how the type of flying impacts the reliability of propellers.
What I am honestly interested in is the written information that relates to the
tear down inspection intervals recommended by the manufacturer officially and
in writing for either the blades, and/or the hub, both of which I refer to as
"the propeller".
You also said: "If you fly hard airshow or competition aerobatics, the 250 hours
/ 1 year would definitely make sense."
What defines "hard" air show aerobatics? Are we talking gyroscopic maneuvers?
Are we talking snap rolls? Just what exactly? Competition Aerobatics spans
the realm from Sportsman, to Unlimited with a wide margin in the middle.
Whirlwind obviously must have a set policy where some inspections might be "required"
and some might be "recommended".
What I am looking at here is a pretty hefty price tag if you purchase the blades,
required hub, and ..... does it also require a different prop governor?
In any case, before I plop down 15-18 K$ on a new prop assy., I'd like to read
the fine print. Not trying to put anyone on the spot here, I just think the
original question is apt, and I am still not quite sure of the answer.
Best Regards,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 6:06 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
Mark,
I'm on the road on business and will look at my propeller data sheet when back
in miami. If I recall correctly Whirlwind indicated that the limiting element
is not the blade but the hub - I believe this would be the case with the other
manufacturers also. If you fly hard airshow or competition aerobatics, the 250
hours / 1 year would definitly make sense.
I see your point but with the type of flying I do, formation and moderate aerobatics,
I'm not real concern about the reliability of the hub.
The nearly 1000 hours I have on their hub on my older prop (same) gives me good
confidence that it 'll work tomorrow too... :)
Sam
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
CC:
Sam, I am curious.
When I go to their web page:
http://www.whirlwindaviation.com/props/400cmseries.asp
Under "Specifications" I see this:
"Tear Down Inspection: 250 hours or 1 years"
In the owner's manual I find this statement:
"7.1 Teardown Inspection Schedule
Refer to the original propeller data sheet for recommended
teardown inspection schedule. If the original data sheet
cannot be found, please contact Whirl Wind Aviation directly
to confirm the recommended schedule for your propeller."
So, it appears rather vague to me just what the tear-down schedule is when approached
by a new potential buyer such as myself.
Do you have a copy of the "original propeller data sheet" that actually gives the
recommended teardown inspection schedule? Recommendations by owners are of
course welcomed at all times, but all props have some kind of official life history
inspection schedule. Of course, anyone can contact Whirlwind directly
for a verbal answer, but I sure would like to see something in writing.
Best Regards,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
Hi econ,
The prop flies even better than it looks...!
No, it is not necessary or required to remove once a year and this is nowhere in
the operations manual that came with prop. If you fly continuiously heavy acrobatics
they recommend inspection every 250 hours. I fly moderate acro and don't
expect inspection before 500 hours.
I suggest you call whirlwind directly and speak with Jeremy ans say hello from
me :)
Feel free to call me if you need more info. Ill be glad to help.
Sam Sax
305.215.5599 cell
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
From: Egon <egonmahr@westnet.com.au>
CC:
Hi Sam.
The prop looks fantastic. Is it true that it has to be removed and inspected once
a year? I am weighing up between the Whirlwind and the MT, and the requirement
to pull the prop and send it to a Prop Shop every year irrespective of hours
flown seems a little onerous. What do you think?
Cheers Egon.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378371#378371
~,g(MGqz{nrf
~,gky
x ojja{nrf
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop |
Just a note about the MT propeller. Up to one third of the MT blade can be damaged
and still be rebuilt by MT to overhauled like new condition for 1/5 the cost
of a new blade. Can anyone else claim that. I know . Been there did that.
I was impressed at the fast turn around as well from Germany. Not sure if
a carbon or full glass blade can withstand that and then not cost $5K per blade
to replace. As well as putting a higher load and chance of damage to the engine
and low vibration transmission .
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378508#378508
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop |
I sell MT propellers, and therefore I am very biased in favour of them.
But, to my mind, there are two critical issues that people should consider
when buying a prop:
MT props are fully certificated, and having once had propeller failure on a
non-certificated prop, I can say that it is something you never want to
happen!
Virtually all the competitors at the last 10 world aerobatic Championships
used MT propellers, which must say something.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
I'm currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:15 PM
Subject: Yak-List: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a
prop
Just a note about the MT propeller. Up to one third of the MT blade can be
damaged and still be rebuilt by MT to overhauled like new condition for 1/5
the cost of a new blade. Can anyone else claim that. I know . Been there
did that. I was impressed at the fast turn around as well from Germany.
Not sure if a carbon or full glass blade can withstand that and then not
cost $5K per blade to replace. As well as putting a higher load and chance
of damage to the engine and low vibration transmission .
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378508#378508
-----------------------------------------------
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by the Invictawiz MailScanner
and is believed to be clean.
http://www.invictawiz.com
-----------------------------------------------
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I might be able to come. If so, where can I stay? Any thoughts?
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: B Kennamore <bkennamore@aol.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 16, 2012 10:37 pm
Subject: Yak-List: Re: OSH trip
Works for me BJ
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 16, 2012, at 5:49 PM, cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
Troops,
Here is the first iteration of our proposed odyssey to OSH.
Chevy, me and possibly Smiley : Airborne sunup 21 July. WXP
FD44 to OPN = 251nm
OPN to 0A3 = 197nm
0A3 to C16 = 273nm
C16 to OSH = 230nm
Perhaps Goatboy could sortie his way to OPN and Snookum could find us at 0A
3.
What say ye?
Pappy
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade |
Propeller
SGkgTWFyaywKWW91ciBxdWVzdGlvbnMgYXJlIHZlcnkgbGVnaXRpbWF0ZSBhbmQgSSB0aGluayB3
b3VsZCBiZSBiZXN0IGFuc3dlcmVkIGJ5IGNvbnRhY3RpbmcgV2hpcmx3aW5kIEF2aWF0aW9uIGRp
cmVjdGx5IGF0IDQ0MC4yNzUuMTUzMC4gV2hlbiBjb250YWN0aW5nIFdoaXJsd2luZCwgwqBhc2sg
Zm9yIHRoZSBHZW5lcmFsIE1hbmFnZXIsIMKgSmVyZW15LsKgCgpBcyB0byB0aGUgZ292ZXJub3Ig
Zm9yIHRoZSBzdG9jayBNMTRQIGVuZ2luZSwgwqB0aGUgc3RhbmRhcmQgR292ZXJub3IgaXMgdXNl
ZC7CoAoKU2FtCgoKU2VudCB2aWEgdGhlIFNhbXN1bmcgR2FsYXh5IFPihKIgSUkgU2t5cm9ja2V0
4oSiLCBhbiBBVCZUIDRHIExURSBzbWFydHBob25lLgoKLS0tLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgbWVzc2Fn
ZSAtLS0tLS0tLQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSRTogWWFrLUxpc3Q6IFJlOiBGbGlnaHQgUmV2aWV3IFZpZGVv
IC0gV2hpcmxXaW5kIEF2aWF0aW9uIDMtQmxhZGUgICBQcm9wZWxsZXIgCkZyb206ICJCaXR0ZXJs
aWNoLCBNYXJrIEcgQ0lWIERldCBDaGVycnkgUG9pbnQsIE1BTFMtMTQgNjRFIiA8bWFyay5iaXR0
ZXJsaWNoQG5hdnkubWlsPiAKVG86IHlhay1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gCkNDOiAgCgotLT4g
WWFrLUxpc3QgbWVzc2FnZSBwb3N0ZWQgYnk6ICJCaXR0ZXJsaWNoLCBNYXJrIEcgQ0lWIERldCBD
aGVycnkgUG9pbnQsIE1BTFMtMTQgNjRFIiA8bWFyay5iaXR0ZXJsaWNoQG5hdnkubWlsPgoKU2Ft
LCAKClVuZGVyc3Rvb2Qgb24gaG93IHRoZSB0eXBlIG9mIGZseWluZyBpbXBhY3RzIHRoZSByZWxp
YWJpbGl0eSBvZiBwcm9wZWxsZXJzLsKgIAoKV2hhdCBJIGFtIGhvbmVzdGx5IGludGVyZXN0ZWQg
aW4gaXMgdGhlIHdyaXR0ZW4gaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gdGhhdCByZWxhdGVzIHRvIHRoZSB0ZWFyIGRv
d24gaW5zcGVjdGlvbiBpbnRlcnZhbHMgcmVjb21tZW5kZWQgYnkgdGhlIG1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciBv
ZmZpY2lhbGx5IGFuZCBpbiB3cml0aW5nIGZvciBlaXRoZXIgdGhlIGJsYWRlcywgYW5kL29yIHRo
ZSBodWIsIGJvdGggb2Ygd2hpY2ggSSByZWZlciB0byBhcyAidGhlIHByb3BlbGxlciIuwqAgCgpZ
b3UgYWxzbyBzYWlkOiAiSWYgeW91IGZseSBoYXJkIGFpcnNob3cgb3IgY29tcGV0aXRpb24gYWVy
b2JhdGljcyzCoCB0aGUgMjUwIGhvdXJzIC8gMSB5ZWFyIHdvdWxkIGRlZmluaXRlbHkgbWFrZSBz
ZW5zZS4iwqAgCgpXaGF0IGRlZmluZXMgImhhcmQiIGFpciBzaG93IGFlcm9iYXRpY3M/wqAgQXJl
IHdlIHRhbGtpbmcgZ3lyb3Njb3BpYyBtYW5ldXZlcnM/wqAgQXJlIHdlIHRhbGtpbmcgc25hcCBy
b2xscz/CoCBKdXN0IHdoYXQgZXhhY3RseT8gQ29tcGV0aXRpb24gQWVyb2JhdGljcyBzcGFucyB0
aGUgcmVhbG0gZnJvbSBTcG9ydHNtYW4sIHRvIFVubGltaXRlZCB3aXRoIGEgd2lkZSBtYXJnaW4g
aW4gdGhlIG1pZGRsZS7CoMKgIAoKV2hpcmx3aW5kIG9idmlvdXNseSBtdXN0IGhhdmUgYSBzZXQg
cG9saWN5IHdoZXJlIHNvbWUgaW5zcGVjdGlvbnMgbWlnaHQgYmUgInJlcXVpcmVkIiBhbmQgc29t
ZSBtaWdodCBiZSAicmVjb21tZW5kZWQiLsKgwqAgCgpXaGF0IEkgYW0gbG9va2luZyBhdCBoZXJl
IGlzIGEgcHJldHR5IGhlZnR5IHByaWNlIHRhZyBpZiB5b3UgcHVyY2hhc2UgdGhlIGJsYWRlcywg
cmVxdWlyZWQgaHViLCBhbmQgLi4uLi4gZG9lcyBpdCBhbHNvIHJlcXVpcmUgYSBkaWZmZXJlbnQg
cHJvcCBnb3Zlcm5vcj8gCgpJbiBhbnkgY2FzZSwgYmVmb3JlIEkgcGxvcCBkb3duIDE1LTE4IEsk
IG9uIGEgbmV3IHByb3AgYXNzeS4swqAgSSdkIGxpa2UgdG8gcmVhZCB0aGUgZmluZSBwcmludC7C
oCBOb3QgdHJ5aW5nIHRvIHB1dCBhbnlvbmUgb24gdGhlIHNwb3QgaGVyZSwgSSBqdXN0IHRoaW5r
IHRoZSBvcmlnaW5hbCBxdWVzdGlvbiBpcyBhcHQsIGFuZCBJIGFtIHN0aWxsIG5vdCBxdWl0ZSBz
dXJlIG9mIHRoZSBhbnN3ZXIuIAoKQmVzdCBSZWdhcmRzLCAKCk1hcmsKCgoKLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5h
bCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0KRnJvbTogb3duZXIteWFrLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20g
W21haWx0bzpvd25lci15YWstbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbV0gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9m
IFNhbSBTYXgKU2VudDogTW9uZGF5LCBKdWx5IDE2LCAyMDEyIDY6MDYgUE0KVG86IHlhay1saXN0
QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20KU3ViamVjdDogUkU6IFlhay1MaXN0OiBSZTogRmxpZ2h0IFJldmlldyBW
aWRlbyAtIFdoaXJsV2luZCBBdmlhdGlvbiAzLUJsYWRlIFByb3BlbGxlcgoKTWFyaywKSSdtIG9u
IHRoZSByb2FkIG9uIGJ1c2luZXNzIGFuZCB3aWxsIGxvb2sgYXQgbXkgcHJvcGVsbGVyIGRhdGEg
c2hlZXQgd2hlbiBiYWNrIGluIG1pYW1pLiBJZiBJIHJlY2FsbCBjb3JyZWN0bHkgV2hpcmx3aW5k
IGluZGljYXRlZCB0aGF0IHRoZSBsaW1pdGluZyBlbGVtZW50IGlzIG5vdCB0aGUgYmxhZGUgYnV0
IHRoZSBodWIgLSBJIGJlbGlldmUgdGhpcyB3b3VsZCBiZSB0aGUgY2FzZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBvdGhl
ciBtYW51ZmFjdHVyZXJzIGFsc28uIElmIHlvdSBmbHkgaGFyZCBhaXJzaG93IG9yIGNvbXBldGl0
aW9uIGFlcm9iYXRpY3MswqAgdGhlIDI1MCBob3VycyAvIDEgeWVhciB3b3VsZCBkZWZpbml0bHkg
bWFrZSBzZW5zZS7CoCAKSSBzZWUgeW91ciBwb2ludCBidXQgd2l0aCB0aGUgdHlwZSBvZiBmbHlp
bmcgSSBkbywgZm9ybWF0aW9uIGFuZCBtb2RlcmF0ZSBhZXJvYmF0aWNzLMKgIEknbSBub3QgcmVh
bCBjb25jZXJuIGFib3V0IHRoZSByZWxpYWJpbGl0eSBvZiB0aGUgaHViLgpUaGUgbmVhcmx5IDEw
MDAgaG91cnMgSSBoYXZlIG9uIHRoZWlyIGh1YiBvbiBteSBvbGRlciBwcm9wIChzYW1lKSBnaXZl
cyBtZSBnb29kIGNvbmZpZGVuY2UgdGhhdCBpdCAnbGwgd29yayB0b21vcnJvdyB0b28uLi4gOikK
U2FtCgpTZW50IHZpYSB0aGUgU2Ftc3VuZyBHYWxheHkgU+KEoiBJSSBTa3lyb2NrZXTihKIsIGFu
IEFUJlQgNEcgTFRFIHNtYXJ0cGhvbmUuCgoKCi0tLS0tLS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIG1lc3NhZ2UgLS0t
LS0tLS0KU3ViamVjdDogUkU6IFlhay1MaXN0OiBSZTogRmxpZ2h0IFJldmlldyBWaWRlbyAtIFdo
aXJsV2luZCBBdmlhdGlvbiAzLUJsYWRlIFByb3BlbGxlcgpGcm9tOiAiQml0dGVybGljaCwgTWFy
ayBHIENJViBEZXQgQ2hlcnJ5IFBvaW50LCBNQUxTLTE0IDY0RSIgPG1hcmsuYml0dGVybGljaEBu
YXZ5Lm1pbD4gClRvOiB5YWstbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIApDQzogCgoKCi0tPiBZYWstTGlz
dCBtZXNzYWdlIHBvc3RlZCBieTogIkJpdHRlcmxpY2gsIE1hcmsgRyBDSVYgRGV0IENoZXJyeSBQ
b2ludCwgTUFMUy0xNCA2NEUiIDxtYXJrLmJpdHRlcmxpY2hAbmF2eS5taWw+CgpTYW0sIEkgYW0g
Y3VyaW91cy7CoCAKCldoZW4gSSBnbyB0byB0aGVpciB3ZWIgcGFnZToKCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cud2hp
cmx3aW5kYXZpYXRpb24uY29tL3Byb3BzLzQwMGNtc2VyaWVzLmFzcAoKVW5kZXIgIlNwZWNpZmlj
YXRpb25zIiBJIHNlZSB0aGlzOiAKCiJUZWFyIERvd24gSW5zcGVjdGlvbjogMjUwIGhvdXJzIG9y
IDEgeWVhcnMiCgpJbiB0aGUgb3duZXIncyBtYW51YWwgSSBmaW5kIHRoaXMgc3RhdGVtZW50OiAK
CiI3LjEgVGVhcmRvd24gSW5zcGVjdGlvbiBTY2hlZHVsZQpSZWZlciB0byB0aGUgb3JpZ2luYWwg
cHJvcGVsbGVyIGRhdGEgc2hlZXQgZm9yIHJlY29tbWVuZGVkCnRlYXJkb3duIGluc3BlY3Rpb24g
c2NoZWR1bGUuIElmIHRoZSBvcmlnaW5hbCBkYXRhIHNoZWV0CmNhbm5vdCBiZSBmb3VuZCwgcGxl
YXNlIGNvbnRhY3QgV2hpcmwgV2luZCBBdmlhdGlvbiBkaXJlY3RseQp0byBjb25maXJtIHRoZSBy
ZWNvbW1lbmRlZCBzY2hlZHVsZSBmb3IgeW91ciBwcm9wZWxsZXIuIgoKU28sIGl0IGFwcGVhcnMg
cmF0aGVyIHZhZ3VlIHRvIG1lIGp1c3Qgd2hhdCB0aGUgdGVhci1kb3duIHNjaGVkdWxlIGlzIHdo
ZW4gYXBwcm9hY2hlZCBieSBhIG5ldyBwb3RlbnRpYWwgYnV5ZXIgc3VjaCBhcyBteXNlbGYuwqAg
CgpEbyB5b3UgaGF2ZSBhIGNvcHkgb2YgdGhlICJvcmlnaW5hbCBwcm9wZWxsZXIgZGF0YSBzaGVl
dCIgdGhhdCBhY3R1YWxseSBnaXZlcyB0aGUgcmVjb21tZW5kZWQgdGVhcmRvd24gaW5zcGVjdGlv
biBzY2hlZHVsZT/CoCBSZWNvbW1lbmRhdGlvbnMgYnkgb3duZXJzIGFyZSBvZiBjb3Vyc2Ugd2Vs
Y29tZWQgYXQgYWxsIHRpbWVzLCBidXQgYWxsIHByb3BzIGhhdmUgc29tZSBraW5kIG9mIG9mZmlj
aWFsIGxpZmUgaGlzdG9yeSBpbnNwZWN0aW9uIHNjaGVkdWxlLsKgIE9mIGNvdXJzZSwgYW55b25l
IGNhbiBjb250YWN0IFdoaXJsd2luZCBkaXJlY3RseSBmb3IgYSB2ZXJiYWwgYW5zd2VyLCBidXQg
SSBzdXJlIHdvdWxkIGxpa2UgdG8gc2VlIHNvbWV0aGluZyBpbiB3cml0aW5nLsKgIAoKQmVzdCBS
ZWdhcmRzLCAKCk1hcmsKCgoKCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tCkZyb206IG93bmVy
LXlhay1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIFttYWlsdG86b3duZXIteWFrLWxpc3Qtc2Vy
dmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb21dIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBTYW0gU2F4ClNlbnQ6IE1vbmRheSwgSnVs
eSAxNiwgMjAxMiAxMTo0MCBBTQpUbzogeWFrLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQpTdWJqZWN0OiBS
ZTogWWFrLUxpc3Q6IFJlOiBGbGlnaHQgUmV2aWV3IFZpZGVvIC0gV2hpcmxXaW5kIEF2aWF0aW9u
IDMtQmxhZGUgUHJvcGVsbGVyCgoKSGkgZWNvbiwKVGhlIHByb3AgZmxpZXMgZXZlbiBiZXR0ZXIg
dGhhbiBpdCBsb29rcy4uLiEKTm8sIGl0IGlzIG5vdCBuZWNlc3Nhcnkgb3IgcmVxdWlyZWQgdG8g
cmVtb3ZlIG9uY2UgYSB5ZWFyIGFuZCB0aGlzIGlzIG5vd2hlcmUgaW4gdGhlIG9wZXJhdGlvbnMg
bWFudWFsIHRoYXQgY2FtZSB3aXRoIHByb3AuIElmIHlvdSBmbHkgY29udGludWlvdXNseSBoZWF2
eSBhY3JvYmF0aWNzIHRoZXkgcmVjb21tZW5kIGluc3BlY3Rpb24gZXZlcnkgMjUwIGhvdXJzLiBJ
IGZseSBtb2RlcmF0ZSBhY3JvIGFuZCBkb24ndCBleHBlY3QgaW5zcGVjdGlvbiBiZWZvcmUgNTAw
IGhvdXJzLgpJIHN1Z2dlc3QgeW91IGNhbGwgd2hpcmx3aW5kIGRpcmVjdGx5IGFuZCBzcGVhayB3
aXRoIEplcmVteSBhbnMgc2F5IGhlbGxvIGZyb20gbWUgOikKRmVlbCBmcmVlIHRvIGNhbGwgbWUg
aWYgeW91IG5lZWQgbW9yZSBpbmZvLiBJbGwgYmUgZ2xhZCB0byBoZWxwLgpTYW0gU2F4CjMwNS4y
MTUuNTU5OSBjZWxsCgoKU2VudCB2aWEgdGhlIFNhbXN1bmcgR2FsYXh5IFPihKIgSUkgU2t5cm9j
a2V04oSiLCBhbiBBVCZUIDRHIExURSBzbWFydHBob25lLgoKCgotLS0tLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBt
ZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tLS0tClN1YmplY3Q6IFlhay1MaXN0OiBSZTogRmxpZ2h0IFJldmlldyBWaWRl
byAtIFdoaXJsV2luZCBBdmlhdGlvbiAzLUJsYWRlIFByb3BlbGxlciAKRnJvbTogRWdvbiA8ZWdv
bm1haHJAd2VzdG5ldC5jb20uYXU+IApUbzogeWFrLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbSAKQ0M6IAoK
CgotLT4gWWFrLUxpc3QgbWVzc2FnZSBwb3N0ZWQgYnk6ICJFZ29uIiA8ZWdvbm1haHJAd2VzdG5l
dC5jb20uYXU+CgpIaSBTYW0uClRoZSBwcm9wIGxvb2tzIGZhbnRhc3RpYy4gSXMgaXQgdHJ1ZSB0
aGF0IGl0IGhhcyB0byBiZSByZW1vdmVkIGFuZCBpbnNwZWN0ZWQgb25jZSBhIHllYXI/IEkgYW0g
d2VpZ2hpbmcgdXAgYmV0d2VlbiB0aGUgV2hpcmx3aW5kIGFuZCB0aGUgTVQsIGFuZCB0aGUgcmVx
dWlyZW1lbnQgdG8gcHVsbCB0aGUgcHJvcCBhbmQgc2VuZCBpdCB0byBhIFByb3AgU2hvcCBldmVy
eSB5ZWFyIGlycmVzcGVjdGl2ZSBvZiBob3VycyBmbG93biBzZWVtcyBhIGxpdHRsZSBvbmVyb3Vz
LiBXaGF0IGRvIHlvdSB0aGluaz8KQ2hlZXJzIEVnb24uCgoKCgpSZWFkIHRoaXMgdG9waWMgb25s
aW5lIGhlcmU6CgpodHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vdmlld3RvcGljLnBocD9wPTM3
ODM3MSMzNzgzNzEKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgp+LANnKE1HcXrfont/bnIbZgoKCgoKCgp+LANnAWt5CnjW
igYbIMuib2pqYd+ie39uchtmCgoKXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09
PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0KXy09wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIC0gVGhlIFlh
ay1MaXN0IEVtYWlsIEZvcnVtIC0KXy09IFVzZSB0aGUgTWF0cm9uaWNzIExpc3QgRmVhdHVyZXMg
TmF2aWdhdG9yIHRvIGJyb3dzZQpfLT0gdGhlIG1hbnkgTGlzdCB1dGlsaXRpZXMgc3VjaCBhcyBM
aXN0IFVuL1N1YnNjcmlwdGlvbiwKXy09IEFyY2hpdmUgU2VhcmNoICYgRG93bmxvYWQsIDctRGF5
IEJyb3dzZSwgQ2hhdCwgRkFRLApfLT0gUGhvdG9zaGFyZSwgYW5kIG11Y2ggbXVjaCBtb3JlOgpf
LT0KXy09wqDCoCAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9ZYWstTGlz
dApfLT0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09
PT09PT09PT09PT0KXy09wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoCAtIE1BVFJPTklDUyBX
RUIgRk9SVU1TIC0KXy09IFNhbWUgZ3JlYXQgY29udGVudCBhbHNvIGF2YWlsYWJsZSB2aWEgdGhl
IFdlYiBGb3J1bXMhCl8tPQpfLT3CoMKgIC0tPiBodHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20K
Xy09Cl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09
PT09PT09PT09Cl8tPcKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoCAtIExpc3QgQ29udHJpYnV0aW9u
IFdlYiBTaXRlIC0KXy09wqAgVGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciB5b3VyIGdlbmVyb3VzIHN1cHBvcnQhCl8t
PcKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKg
wqAgLU1hdHQgRHJhbGxlLCBMaXN0IEFkbWluLgpfLT3CoMKgIC0tPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJv
bmljcy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0aW9uCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09
PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09CgoKCg=
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade |
Propeller
I will be glad to do so Sam, but can you still post the information contained in
your propeller data sheet?
Thanks.
Mark
p.s. The number seems to be 440-275-1540 I tried 440.275.1530 and got some
strange answering machine.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:37 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
Hi Mark,
Your questions are very legitimate and I think would be best answered by contacting
Whirlwind Aviation directly at 440.275.1530. When contacting Whirlwind,
ask for the General Manager, Jeremy.
As to the governor for the stock M14P engine, the standard Governor is used.
Sam
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
CC:
Sam,
Understood on how the type of flying impacts the reliability of propellers.
What I am honestly interested in is the written information that relates to the
tear down inspection intervals recommended by the manufacturer officially and
in writing for either the blades, and/or the hub, both of which I refer to as
"the propeller".
You also said: "If you fly hard airshow or competition aerobatics, the 250 hours
/ 1 year would definitely make sense."
What defines "hard" air show aerobatics? Are we talking gyroscopic maneuvers?
Are we talking snap rolls? Just what exactly? Competition Aerobatics spans
the realm from Sportsman, to Unlimited with a wide margin in the middle.
Whirlwind obviously must have a set policy where some inspections might be "required"
and some might be "recommended".
What I am looking at here is a pretty hefty price tag if you purchase the blades,
required hub, and ..... does it also require a different prop governor?
In any case, before I plop down 15-18 K$ on a new prop assy., I'd like to read
the fine print. Not trying to put anyone on the spot here, I just think the
original question is apt, and I am still not quite sure of the answer.
Best Regards,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 6:06 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
Mark,
I'm on the road on business and will look at my propeller data sheet when back
in miami. If I recall correctly Whirlwind indicated that the limiting element
is not the blade but the hub - I believe this would be the case with the other
manufacturers also. If you fly hard airshow or competition aerobatics, the 250
hours / 1 year would definitly make sense.
I see your point but with the type of flying I do, formation and moderate aerobatics,
I'm not real concern about the reliability of the hub.
The nearly 1000 hours I have on their hub on my older prop (same) gives me good
confidence that it 'll work tomorrow too... :)
Sam
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
CC:
Sam, I am curious.
When I go to their web page:
http://www.whirlwindaviation.com/props/400cmseries.asp
Under "Specifications" I see this:
"Tear Down Inspection: 250 hours or 1 years"
In the owner's manual I find this statement:
"7.1 Teardown Inspection Schedule
Refer to the original propeller data sheet for recommended
teardown inspection schedule. If the original data sheet
cannot be found, please contact Whirl Wind Aviation directly
to confirm the recommended schedule for your propeller."
So, it appears rather vague to me just what the tear-down schedule is when approached
by a new potential buyer such as myself.
Do you have a copy of the "original propeller data sheet" that actually gives the
recommended teardown inspection schedule? Recommendations by owners are of
course welcomed at all times, but all props have some kind of official life history
inspection schedule. Of course, anyone can contact Whirlwind directly
for a verbal answer, but I sure would like to see something in writing.
Best Regards,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
Hi econ,
The prop flies even better than it looks...!
No, it is not necessary or required to remove once a year and this is nowhere in
the operations manual that came with prop. If you fly continuiously heavy acrobatics
they recommend inspection every 250 hours. I fly moderate acro and don't
expect inspection before 500 hours.
I suggest you call whirlwind directly and speak with Jeremy ans say hello from
me :)
Feel free to call me if you need more info. Ill be glad to help.
Sam Sax
305.215.5599 cell
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
From: Egon <egonmahr@westnet.com.au>
CC:
Hi Sam.
The prop looks fantastic. Is it true that it has to be removed and inspected once
a year? I am weighing up between the Whirlwind and the MT, and the requirement
to pull the prop and send it to a Prop Shop every year irrespective of hours
flown seems a little onerous. What do you think?
Cheers Egon.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378371#378371
~,g(MGqz{nrf
~,gky
x ojja{nrf
~,g(MGqzky
x o{{nrf
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade |
Propeller
I made the call, (440-275-1540) and talked to Jeremy.
Some points to consider (at least for me) : THIS IS AN EXPERIMENTAL PROPELLOR
1. As such all inspections listed are "recommended" and not mandatory. Whirlwind
will send out a "Service Letter" if an inspection moves into the high priority
category. In my mind there are pro's and con's here. Lots and LOTS of good
things are involved with certified props such as MT models. But an Experimental
Prop is the same as an Experimental Airplane as far as the FAA is concerned,
which can be a good thing in certain situations in certain "Regions" of
the U.S. Just saying.
2. As of TODAY, the recommended tear down period has been extended to 400 hours/5
years. Either or. Again, this is a RECOMMENDED tear down period, since it
is an Experimental Prop, this recommendation does not carry the same weight
as it does with a Certified Prop. I.E. You are not required to comply with it,
but you're not too bright if you do not.
Price is about the same as the certified MT props.
I did not question or discuss blade repair issues or vibration dampening.
Jeremy pointed out some YouTube videos of a Pitts S12 and other aircraft running
this prop. Very impressive.
I do have a general question for the folks flying the Whirlwind props on M-14 engines.
How did you folks decide to take the leap and go with this prop as compared
to say the MT series? Did you pay full price for these props, or did you
receive a discount for acting as a test bed?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:37 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
Hi Mark,
Your questions are very legitimate and I think would be best answered by contacting
Whirlwind Aviation directly at 440.275.1530. When contacting Whirlwind,
ask for the General Manager, Jeremy.
As to the governor for the stock M14P engine, the standard Governor is used.
Sam
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
CC:
Sam,
Understood on how the type of flying impacts the reliability of propellers.
What I am honestly interested in is the written information that relates to the
tear down inspection intervals recommended by the manufacturer officially and
in writing for either the blades, and/or the hub, both of which I refer to as
"the propeller".
You also said: "If you fly hard airshow or competition aerobatics, the 250 hours
/ 1 year would definitely make sense."
What defines "hard" air show aerobatics? Are we talking gyroscopic maneuvers?
Are we talking snap rolls? Just what exactly? Competition Aerobatics spans
the realm from Sportsman, to Unlimited with a wide margin in the middle.
Whirlwind obviously must have a set policy where some inspections might be "required"
and some might be "recommended".
What I am looking at here is a pretty hefty price tag if you purchase the blades,
required hub, and ..... does it also require a different prop governor?
In any case, before I plop down 15-18 K$ on a new prop assy., I'd like to read
the fine print. Not trying to put anyone on the spot here, I just think the
original question is apt, and I am still not quite sure of the answer.
Best Regards,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 6:06 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
Mark,
I'm on the road on business and will look at my propeller data sheet when back
in miami. If I recall correctly Whirlwind indicated that the limiting element
is not the blade but the hub - I believe this would be the case with the other
manufacturers also. If you fly hard airshow or competition aerobatics, the 250
hours / 1 year would definitly make sense.
I see your point but with the type of flying I do, formation and moderate aerobatics,
I'm not real concern about the reliability of the hub.
The nearly 1000 hours I have on their hub on my older prop (same) gives me good
confidence that it 'll work tomorrow too... :)
Sam
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
CC:
Sam, I am curious.
When I go to their web page:
http://www.whirlwindaviation.com/props/400cmseries.asp
Under "Specifications" I see this:
"Tear Down Inspection: 250 hours or 1 years"
In the owner's manual I find this statement:
"7.1 Teardown Inspection Schedule
Refer to the original propeller data sheet for recommended
teardown inspection schedule. If the original data sheet
cannot be found, please contact Whirl Wind Aviation directly
to confirm the recommended schedule for your propeller."
So, it appears rather vague to me just what the tear-down schedule is when approached
by a new potential buyer such as myself.
Do you have a copy of the "original propeller data sheet" that actually gives the
recommended teardown inspection schedule? Recommendations by owners are of
course welcomed at all times, but all props have some kind of official life history
inspection schedule. Of course, anyone can contact Whirlwind directly
for a verbal answer, but I sure would like to see something in writing.
Best Regards,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
Hi econ,
The prop flies even better than it looks...!
No, it is not necessary or required to remove once a year and this is nowhere in
the operations manual that came with prop. If you fly continuiously heavy acrobatics
they recommend inspection every 250 hours. I fly moderate acro and don't
expect inspection before 500 hours.
I suggest you call whirlwind directly and speak with Jeremy ans say hello from
me :)
Feel free to call me if you need more info. Ill be glad to help.
Sam Sax
305.215.5599 cell
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
From: Egon <egonmahr@westnet.com.au>
CC:
Hi Sam.
The prop looks fantastic. Is it true that it has to be removed and inspected once
a year? I am weighing up between the Whirlwind and the MT, and the requirement
to pull the prop and send it to a Prop Shop every year irrespective of hours
flown seems a little onerous. What do you think?
Cheers Egon.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378371#378371
~,g(MGqz{nrf
~,gky
x ojja{nrf
~,g(MGqzky
x o{{nrf
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop |
A few years back, during AirVenture, Ray Gage ran over an orange cone out in warbird
parking with his -TW with an MT. His MT prop sustained damage on one blade.
The MT rep at Oshkosh, told Ray that single blades could not be replaced,
they must be replaced as a set of three. Further more they said that the prop
hub needed to be examined as well and they offered to do it.
I observed the teardown, one of the plastic pitch change blocks had dented the
aluminum rub plate. MT said it was not serviceable and charged Ray for a whole
new prop. It took a while to get the prop.
After seeing this, and the type of customer service Ray received, I decided to
forgo purchasing an MT prop.
Craig Payne
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade |
Propeller
Mark,
I was one of the first users of the WhirlWind 2-blade composite prop for the M-14P
back in 2010. Paid full price and have been very happy.
The only down side of being an early (first) adaptor was determining the optimum
blade angle. The original setting only gave me 82% power on takeoff. Through
a little trial and error ended up at 17.5 degrees and it has been a delight ever
since. Can't say enough good things about this one.
Warren
On Jul 17, 2012, at 12:15 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
64E wrote:
>
> I made the call, (440-275-1540) and talked to Jeremy.
>
> Some points to consider (at least for me) : THIS IS AN EXPERIMENTAL PROPELLOR
>
> 1. As such all inspections listed are "recommended" and not mandatory. Whirlwind
will send out a "Service Letter" if an inspection moves into the high priority
category. In my mind there are pro's and con's here. Lots and LOTS of
good things are involved with certified props such as MT models. But an Experimental
Prop is the same as an Experimental Airplane as far as the FAA is concerned,
which can be a good thing in certain situations in certain "Regions" of
the U.S. Just saying.
>
> 2. As of TODAY, the recommended tear down period has been extended to 400 hours/5
years. Either or. Again, this is a RECOMMENDED tear down period, since
it is an Experimental Prop, this recommendation does not carry the same weight
as it does with a Certified Prop. I.E. You are not required to comply with
it, but you're not too bright if you do not.
>
> Price is about the same as the certified MT props.
>
> I did not question or discuss blade repair issues or vibration dampening.
>
> Jeremy pointed out some YouTube videos of a Pitts S12 and other aircraft running
this prop. Very impressive.
>
> I do have a general question for the folks flying the Whirlwind props on M-14
engines. How did you folks decide to take the leap and go with this prop as
compared to say the MT series? Did you pay full price for these props, or did
you receive a discount for acting as a test bed?
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:37 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
>
> Hi Mark,
> Your questions are very legitimate and I think would be best answered by contacting
Whirlwind Aviation directly at 440.275.1530. When contacting Whirlwind,
ask for the General Manager, Jeremy.
>
> As to the governor for the stock M14P engine, the standard Governor is used.
>
> Sam
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
> From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> CC:
>
>
>
>
> Sam,
>
> Understood on how the type of flying impacts the reliability of propellers.
>
> What I am honestly interested in is the written information that relates to the
tear down inspection intervals recommended by the manufacturer officially and
in writing for either the blades, and/or the hub, both of which I refer to
as "the propeller".
>
> You also said: "If you fly hard airshow or competition aerobatics, the 250 hours
/ 1 year would definitely make sense."
>
> What defines "hard" air show aerobatics? Are we talking gyroscopic maneuvers?
Are we talking snap rolls? Just what exactly? Competition Aerobatics spans
the realm from Sportsman, to Unlimited with a wide margin in the middle.
>
> Whirlwind obviously must have a set policy where some inspections might be "required"
and some might be "recommended".
>
> What I am looking at here is a pretty hefty price tag if you purchase the blades,
required hub, and ..... does it also require a different prop governor?
>
> In any case, before I plop down 15-18 K$ on a new prop assy., I'd like to read
the fine print. Not trying to put anyone on the spot here, I just think the
original question is apt, and I am still not quite sure of the answer.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 6:06 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
>
> Mark,
> I'm on the road on business and will look at my propeller data sheet when back
in miami. If I recall correctly Whirlwind indicated that the limiting element
is not the blade but the hub - I believe this would be the case with the other
manufacturers also. If you fly hard airshow or competition aerobatics, the
250 hours / 1 year would definitly make sense.
> I see your point but with the type of flying I do, formation and moderate aerobatics,
I'm not real concern about the reliability of the hub.
> The nearly 1000 hours I have on their hub on my older prop (same) gives me good
confidence that it 'll work tomorrow too... :)
> Sam
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
> From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> CC:
>
>
>
>
> Sam, I am curious.
>
> When I go to their web page:
>
> http://www.whirlwindaviation.com/props/400cmseries.asp
>
> Under "Specifications" I see this:
>
> "Tear Down Inspection: 250 hours or 1 years"
>
> In the owner's manual I find this statement:
>
> "7.1 Teardown Inspection Schedule
> Refer to the original propeller data sheet for recommended
> teardown inspection schedule. If the original data sheet
> cannot be found, please contact Whirl Wind Aviation directly
> to confirm the recommended schedule for your propeller."
>
> So, it appears rather vague to me just what the tear-down schedule is when approached
by a new potential buyer such as myself.
>
> Do you have a copy of the "original propeller data sheet" that actually gives
the recommended teardown inspection schedule? Recommendations by owners are
of course welcomed at all times, but all props have some kind of official life
history inspection schedule. Of course, anyone can contact Whirlwind directly
for a verbal answer, but I sure would like to see something in writing.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:40 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
>
>
> Hi econ,
> The prop flies even better than it looks...!
> No, it is not necessary or required to remove once a year and this is nowhere
in the operations manual that came with prop. If you fly continuiously heavy
acrobatics they recommend inspection every 250 hours. I fly moderate acro and
don't expect inspection before 500 hours.
> I suggest you call whirlwind directly and speak with Jeremy ans say hello from
me :)
> Feel free to call me if you need more info. Ill be glad to help.
> Sam Sax
> 305.215.5599 cell
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
> From: Egon <egonmahr@westnet.com.au>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> CC:
>
>
>
>
> Hi Sam.
> The prop looks fantastic. Is it true that it has to be removed and inspected
once a year? I am weighing up between the Whirlwind and the MT, and the requirement
to pull the prop and send it to a Prop Shop every year irrespective of hours
flown seems a little onerous. What do you think?
> Cheers Egon.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378371#378371
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~,g(MGqz{nrf
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~,gky
> x ojja{nrf
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~,g(MGqzky
> x o{{nrf
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop |
That was the old style props not the new computer generated propellers. Things
change. New propellers can replace one blade. My Tw has the new propeller design.
They changed somewhere in 2003.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378541#378541
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop |
I have had excellent experience with MT in the US. I have had typical short, uninterested
types of discussions with the Europeans. So not surprising to hear
of Ray's experience with MT reps at OSH.
The local MT shop gets 2 thumbs up. 6-7 years ago I also hit something at OSH
and dinged one blade. In less than 24 hours I had a matched set of blades overnighted
from MT USA in florida, my local MT rep did the tear down and rebuild
and the prop was back on the plane flying the same day.
Herb
On Jul 17, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Cpayne wrote:
>
> A few years back, during AirVenture, Ray Gage ran over an orange cone out in
warbird parking with his -TW with an MT. His MT prop sustained damage on one blade.
The MT rep at Oshkosh, told Ray that single blades could not be replaced,
they must be replaced as a set of three. Further more they said that the prop
hub needed to be examined as well and they offered to do it.
>
> I observed the teardown, one of the plastic pitch change blocks had dented the
aluminum rub plate. MT said it was not serviceable and charged Ray for a whole
new prop. It took a while to get the prop.
>
> After seeing this, and the type of customer service Ray received, I decided to
forgo purchasing an MT prop.
>
> Craig Payne
>
>
>
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop |
I remember helping with a yak that had a prop strike at Oshkosh. It hit a cone
that had a pipe in it driven into the ground. The local MT rep didn't have a
prop nor did MT USA in Deland. I was asked by either Coy or the MT guys in the
booth if I had one in stock in FL. I did and we had it shipped up to Oshkosh
to get him going. Cliff Coy, "Mr MT," Gerd Muhlbauer, and I installed it at
the show for the owner. Seems like pretty damn good service to me. I then
ordered a replacement prop for the airplane I had that prop for. So I took the
delay instead of the yak owner at Oshkosh.
Sincerely,
Kevin Kimball, Vice President
Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc.
PO Box 849
5354 Cemetery Road
Zellwood, FL 32798-0849
407.889.3451 phone
407.889.7168 fax
www.saettaboats.com
www.pittsmodel12.com
www.jimkimballenterprises.com
Email: Kevin@jimkimballenterprises.com
On Jul 17, 2012, at 3:45 PM, Cpayne wrote:
>
> A few years back, during AirVenture, Ray Gage ran over an orange cone out in
warbird parking with his -TW with an MT. His MT prop sustained damage on one blade.
The MT rep at Oshkosh, told Ray that single blades could not be replaced,
they must be replaced as a set of three. Further more they said that the prop
hub needed to be examined as well and they offered to do it.
>
> I observed the teardown, one of the plastic pitch change blocks had dented the
aluminum rub plate. MT said it was not serviceable and charged Ray for a whole
new prop. It took a while to get the prop.
>
> After seeing this, and the type of customer service Ray received, I decided to
forgo purchasing an MT prop.
>
> Craig Payne
>
>
>
>
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Give the college a call. They may very well have room still available.
Easy cheap bus ride door to door, and the school cafeteria has really good
food that not to expensive. That's where Payne & I are staying.
Pappy
In a message dated 7/17/2012 1:39:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
hess737@aol.com writes:
I might be able to come. If so, where can I stay? Any thoughts?
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: B Kennamore <bkennamore@aol.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 16, 2012 10:37 pm
Subject: Yak-List: Re: OSH trip
Works for me BJ
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 16, 2012, at 5:49 PM, _cjpilot710@aol.com_
(mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com) wrote:
Troops,
Here is the first iteration of our proposed odyssey to OSH.
Chevy, me and possibly Smiley : Airborne sunup 21 July. WXP
FD44 to OPN = 251nm
OPN to 0A3 = 197nm
0A3 to C16 = 273nm
C16 to OSH = 230nm
Perhaps Goatboy could sortie his way to OPN and Snookum could find us at
0A3.
What say ye?
Pappy
3D============================================
3D============================================
3D============================================
3D============================================
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Thanks Pappy. Got a phone number?
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: cjpilot710 <cjpilot710@aol.com>
Sent: Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:15 pm
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: OSH trip
Give the college a call. They may very well have room still available. Ea
sy cheap bus ride door to door, and the school cafeteria has really good fo
od that not to expensive. That's where Payne & I are staying.
Pappy
In a message dated 7/17/2012 1:39:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, hess737@ao
l.com writes:
I might be able to come. If so, where can I stay? Any thoughts?
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: B Kennamore <bkennamore@aol.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 16, 2012 10:37 pm
Subject: Yak-List: Re: OSH trip
Works for me BJ
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 16, 2012, at 5:49 PM, cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
Troops,
Here is the first iteration of our proposed odyssey to OSH.
Chevy, me and possibly Smiley : Airborne sunup 21 July. WXP
FD44 to OPN = 251nm
OPN to 0A3 = 197nm
0A3 to C16 = 273nm
C16 to OSH = 230nm
Perhaps Goatboy could sortie his way to OPN and Snookum could find us a
t 0A3.
What say ye?
Pappy
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Yak-List
s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
You can get it on the EAA web site. Payne did all grunt work.
In a message dated 7/17/2012 10:57:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
hess737@aol.com writes:
Thanks Pappy. Got a phone number?
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: cjpilot710 <cjpilot710@aol.com>
Sent: Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:15 pm
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: OSH trip
Give the college a call. They may very well have room still available.
Easy cheap bus ride door to door, and the school cafeteria has really good
food that not to expensive. That's where Payne & I are staying.
Pappy
In a message dated 7/17/2012 1:39:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_hess737@aol.com_ (mailto:hess737@aol.com) writes:
I might be able to come. If so, where can I stay? Any thoughts?
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: B Kennamore <_bkennamore@aol.com_ (mailto:bkennamore@aol.com) >
Sent: Mon, Jul 16, 2012 10:37 pm
Subject: Yak-List: Re: OSH trip
Works for me BJ
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 16, 2012, at 5:49 PM, _cjpilot710@aol.com_
(mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com) wrote:
Troops,
Here is the first iteration of our proposed odyssey to OSH.
Chevy, me and possibly Smiley : Airborne sunup 21 July. WXP
FD44 to OPN = 251nm
OPN to 0A3 = 197nm
0A3 to C16 = 273nm
C16 to OSH = 230nm
Perhaps Goatboy could sortie his way to OPN and Snookum could find us at
0A3.
What say ye?
Pappy
3D============================================
3D============================================
3D============================================
3D============================================
="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List)
s.matronics.com/">_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http:/
/forums.matronics.com/)
p://_www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution_
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Cylinder Base Nut Wrench/Nanchang Tools WANTED |
I need a full set of Nanchang Tools. At minimum I would like a cylinder base nut
wrench please. 512-705-1040 or email miles@wambua.com
Thanks
Miles
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378590#378590
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
0A3 does have patrol and that's where we'll be meeting up with "Lefty"
because its right next door to him.
As for C16 I show a $6.41 price, but Frasca usually give us a discount for
stopping by.
TAZ is a little far west from a straight shot north. And way out of the
way for Lefty.
HXF sound like a good stop to tank up ($5.15/g) before OSH.
So looking at :
Me Chevy & maybe Smily FD44 to OPN
Pickup Snookum, Lefty, & Goatboy at 0A3
5or6 ship to C16.
5or6 ship to HXF.
5or6 ship to OSH.
We'll plan on leaving FD44 right after sunup to OPN.
Takeoff + 2:00
OPN to 0A3 = 1:30
0A3 to C16 = 2:06
C16 to HXF = 1:30
HXF to OSH = :20
Goatboy maybe you can meet up with Snookum at MSL than to 0A3.
How's that sound guys?
In a message dated 7/16/2012 10:13:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
djester@gjtbs.com writes:
Better for me to meet you at 0A3...I note Smithville has no fuel. SYI has
fuel for 4.99 per gallon and is about 20 SW. Fuel at C16 is 6.74 a gallon
.
There is fuel 60 SW for 5.00 per (TAZ). About 30 south of OSH gas is
5.14 while at OSH it's 5.47.
Sent from my iPad
Sincerely,
Dave Jester, Director
GALLOWAY, JOHNSON, TOMPKINS, BURR & SMITH, A PLC
Phone: 850-436-7000 | Direct: 850-436-7010 | Cell: 850-291-4174 | Fax:
850-436-7099
118 East Garden Street Pensacola, 32502
Email: _djester@gjtbs.com_ (mailto:djester@gjtbs.com)
_Website_ (http://www.gjtbs.com/) | _Bio_
(http://www.gjtbs.com/ftpuser/attorney.php?slugline=jester) | _vCard_
(http://gjtbs.com/~gjtbspl/ftpuser/upload/W.%20David%20Jester.vcf)
Houston =99 St. Louis =99 Lafayette =99 Mandeville
=99 New Orleans =99 Gulfport =99
Mobile =99 Pensacola =99 Tampa =99 Atlanta
CONFIDENTIAL ATTORNEY-CLIENT OR OTHERWISE PRIVILEGED COMMUNICATION
DO NOT FORWARD WITHOUT PERMISSION On Jul 16, 2012, at 5:49 PM,
"_cjpilot710@aol.com_ (mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com) " <_cjpilot710@aol.com_
(mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com) > wrote:
Troops,
Here is the first iteration of our proposed odyssey to OSH.
Chevy, me and possibly Smiley : Airborne sunup 21 July. WXP
FD44 to OPN = 251nm
OPN to 0A3 = 197nm
0A3 to C16 = 273nm
C16 to OSH = 230nm
Perhaps Goatboy could sortie his way to OPN and Snookum could find us at
0A3.
What say ye?
Pappy
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|