Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:17 AM - Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Kendal Simpson)
2. 04:54 AM - Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Jan Mevis)
3. 05:10 AM - Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Kendal Simpson)
4. 05:10 AM - Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (RICHARD VOLKER)
5. 05:16 AM - Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Jan Mevis)
6. 07:13 AM - Re: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
7. 08:31 AM - Re: Yak 55M Voltage regulator Overvoltage? (TumblingTiger)
8. 10:10 AM - Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Etienne Verhellen)
9. 10:47 AM - Re: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
10. 11:31 AM - Re: Re: OSH trip (Roger Kemp M.D.)
11. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Herb Coussons)
12. 12:55 PM - Oshkosh bound (Cpayne)
13. 01:36 PM - Re: OSH trip (BKENNAMORE@aol.com)
14. 01:44 PM - Re: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Jan Mevis)
15. 04:59 PM - Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller (Sam Sax)
16. 05:02 PM - Re: OSH trip (cjpilot710@aol.com)
17. 05:13 PM - Re: Re: OSH trip (cjpilot710@aol.com)
18. 05:22 PM - Re: Oshkosh bound (cjpilot710@aol.com)
19. 06:00 PM - Re: Re: OSH trip (Roger Kemp M.D.)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop |
Yes I worked a deal with Whirlwind but here is some history and my experiences.
The last MT prop I owned I couldn't go a full season without it needing to be
repaired by MT. The first time I went just over a year since overhaul before
I called them about the enormous amount of grease it was slinging. I had to pay
for the repair since I waited a month too long. The next two times I would email
pics a couple months or weeks after the repairs and then they would cover
the labor when I would send it to them. Unfortunately I had to pay for either
the shipping or the flight down to FL to have them do it. They wouldn't let the
prop shop here in PA do the "warranty" work even though they are an MT authorized
shop. I personally don't know any other of my friends who haven't had similar
issues with their MTs, and I'm not just talking about a little bit of grease
on the back of the blades... When I learned that Whirlwind had this new
prop about the same time my new plane was being completed I was excited because
I have several friends with Whirlwinds in their Lycomings and are extremely
happy with them. I called Whirlwind and they said they needed to do some setup
and testing with this new prop so I volunteered. After we got the pitch stops
and counterweights set correctly the prop has been fantastic and trouble free.
I've had it two years and over 200 hours on it now and it has needed nothing.
I've never flown an MT on an M14 that had more than about 3 very small power
ranges where it felt in balance and smooth. When we would have it balanced
it would be great until I would do a couple snap rolls or tumbles then it was
back to shaking at almost every power setting again. All four that I have flown
in different engines would be smooth all the way back or full power but could
never do mid range power settings without it being rough. My Whirlwind is
extremely smooth at any power setting! I have also had zero surging or any
other issues with my Whirlwind running the stock M14 governor. Personally if
I hit something with my prop my insurance is paying for the blade, prop, engine
or what!
ever so
I wouldn't take that into consideration when buying a prop. MT has a lot of great
people that are dealers, employees, and pilots flying their product and they
do make a good prop that is certified. However it's been my experience that
Whirlwind has a better and significantly cheaper prop that doesn't need any tweaked
or new governor to make it work right and I don't have to constantly repair
or balance it either. So for me if I needed to buy a new prop, I wouldn't
hesitate to buy the Whirlwind.
Kendal
On Jul 17, 2012, at 17:12, Herb Coussons <drc@wscare.com> wrote:
>
> I have had excellent experience with MT in the US. I have had typical short,
uninterested types of discussions with the Europeans. So not surprising to hear
of Ray's experience with MT reps at OSH.
>
> The local MT shop gets 2 thumbs up. 6-7 years ago I also hit something at OSH
and dinged one blade. In less than 24 hours I had a matched set of blades overnighted
from MT USA in florida, my local MT rep did the tear down and rebuild
and the prop was back on the plane flying the same day.
>
> Herb
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 17, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Cpayne wrote:
>
>>
>> A few years back, during AirVenture, Ray Gage ran over an orange cone out in
warbird parking with his -TW with an MT. His MT prop sustained damage on one
blade. The MT rep at Oshkosh, told Ray that single blades could not be replaced,
they must be replaced as a set of three. Further more they said that the prop
hub needed to be examined as well and they offered to do it.
>>
>> I observed the teardown, one of the plastic pitch change blocks had dented the
aluminum rub plate. MT said it was not serviceable and charged Ray for a whole
new prop. It took a while to get the prop.
>>
>> After seeing this, and the type of customer service Ray received, I decided
to forgo purchasing an MT prop.
>>
>> Craig Payne
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop |
This is a remarkable story.
Anyway I have an MTV-9-260 prop on my Yak 50, never had any issues, and
I'm very satisfied with it.
What exact type of MT prop did you have? There's a service letter from MT
about excessive oil leaks.
Excessive oil leakage can occur when oil with a lot of dirt cuts deep
scratches on the surface of the pitch change cylinder.
Then you have to change the cylinder and add extra PTFE seals. The newer
props all have these extra seals, I think.
Jan
On 18/07/12 13:15, "Kendal Simpson" <kendal@acronut.com> wrote:
>
>Yes I worked a deal with Whirlwind but here is some history and my
>experiences.
> The last MT prop I owned I couldn't go a full season without it needing
>to be repaired by MT. The first time I went just over a year since
>overhaul before I called them about the enormous amount of grease it was
>slinging. I had to pay for the repair since I waited a month too long.
>The next two times I would email pics a couple months or weeks after the
>repairs and then they would cover the labor when I would send it to them.
>Unfortunately I had to pay for either the shipping or the flight down to
>FL to have them do it. They wouldn't let the prop shop here in PA do the
>"warranty" work even though they are an MT authorized shop. I personally
>don't know any other of my friends who haven't had similar issues with
>their MTs, and I'm not just talking about a little bit of grease on the
>back of the blades... When I learned that Whirlwind had this new prop
>about the same time my new plane was being completed I was excited
>because I have several friends with Whirlwinds in their L!
> ycomings and are extremely happy with them. I called Whirlwind and they
>said they needed to do some setup and testing with this new prop so I
>volunteered. After we got the pitch stops and counterweights set
>correctly the prop has been fantastic and trouble free. I've had it two
>years and over 200 hours on it now and it has needed nothing. I've never
>flown an MT on an M14 that had more than about 3 very small power ranges
>where it felt in balance and smooth. When we would have it balanced it
>would be great until I would do a couple snap rolls or tumbles then it
>was back to shaking at almost every power setting again. All four that I
>have flown in different engines would be smooth all the way back or full
>power but could never do mid range power settings without it being rough.
> My Whirlwind is extremely smooth at any power setting! I have also
>had zero surging or any other issues with my Whirlwind running the stock
>M14 governor. Personally if I hit something with my p!
> rop my insurance is paying for the blade, prop, engine or what!
> ever so
>I wouldn't take that into consideration when buying a prop. MT has a lot
>of great people that are dealers, employees, and pilots flying their
>product and they do make a good prop that is certified. However it's been
>my experience that Whirlwind has a better and significantly cheaper prop
>that doesn't need any tweaked or new governor to make it work right and I
>don't have to constantly repair or balance it either. So for me if I
>needed to buy a new prop, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Whirlwind.
>
>Kendal
>
>On Jul 17, 2012, at 17:12, Herb Coussons <drc@wscare.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I have had excellent experience with MT in the US. I have had typical
>>short, uninterested types of discussions with the Europeans. So not
>>surprising to hear of Ray's experience with MT reps at OSH.
>>
>> The local MT shop gets 2 thumbs up. 6-7 years ago I also hit something
>>at OSH and dinged one blade. In less than 24 hours I had a matched set
>>of blades overnighted from MT USA in florida, my local MT rep did the
>>tear down and rebuild and the prop was back on the plane flying the same
>>day.
>>
>> Herb
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 17, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Cpayne wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> A few years back, during AirVenture, Ray Gage ran over an orange cone
>>>out in warbird parking with his -TW with an MT. His MT prop sustained
>>>damage on one blade. The MT rep at Oshkosh, told Ray that single blades
>>>could not be replaced, they must be replaced as a set of three. Further
>>>more they said that the prop hub needed to be examined as well and they
>>>offered to do it.
>>>
>>> I observed the teardown, one of the plastic pitch change blocks had
>>>dented the aluminum rub plate. MT said it was not serviceable and
>>>charged Ray for a whole new prop. It took a while to get the prop.
>>>
>>> After seeing this, and the type of customer service Ray received, I
>>>decided to forgo purchasing an MT prop.
>>>
>>> Craig Payne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop |
That particular prop was an MTV9 on my S2S. They installed 2 or 3 sets of the new
seals on it and the problem always returned.
Kendal
On Jul 18, 2012, at 7:49, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be> wrote:
>
> This is a remarkable story.
>
> Anyway I have an MTV-9-260 prop on my Yak 50, never had any issues, and
> I'm very satisfied with it.
>
> What exact type of MT prop did you have? There's a service letter from MT
> about excessive oil leaks.
>
> Excessive oil leakage can occur when oil with a lot of dirt cuts deep
> scratches on the surface of the pitch change cylinder.
>
> Then you have to change the cylinder and add extra PTFE seals. The newer
> props all have these extra seals, I think.
>
>
> Jan
>
>
>
> On 18/07/12 13:15, "Kendal Simpson" <kendal@acronut.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes I worked a deal with Whirlwind but here is some history and my
>> experiences.
>> The last MT prop I owned I couldn't go a full season without it needing
>> to be repaired by MT. The first time I went just over a year since
>> overhaul before I called them about the enormous amount of grease it was
>> slinging. I had to pay for the repair since I waited a month too long.
>> The next two times I would email pics a couple months or weeks after the
>> repairs and then they would cover the labor when I would send it to them.
>> Unfortunately I had to pay for either the shipping or the flight down to
>> FL to have them do it. They wouldn't let the prop shop here in PA do the
>> "warranty" work even though they are an MT authorized shop. I personally
>> don't know any other of my friends who haven't had similar issues with
>> their MTs, and I'm not just talking about a little bit of grease on the
>> back of the blades... When I learned that Whirlwind had this new prop
>> about the same time my new plane was being completed I was excited
>> because I have several friends with Whirlwinds in their L!
>> ycomings and are extremely happy with them. I called Whirlwind and they
>> said they needed to do some setup and testing with this new prop so I
>> volunteered. After we got the pitch stops and counterweights set
>> correctly the prop has been fantastic and trouble free. I've had it two
>> years and over 200 hours on it now and it has needed nothing. I've never
>> flown an MT on an M14 that had more than about 3 very small power ranges
>> where it felt in balance and smooth. When we would have it balanced it
>> would be great until I would do a couple snap rolls or tumbles then it
>> was back to shaking at almost every power setting again. All four that I
>> have flown in different engines would be smooth all the way back or full
>> power but could never do mid range power settings without it being rough.
>> My Whirlwind is extremely smooth at any power setting! I have also
>> had zero surging or any other issues with my Whirlwind running the stock
>> M14 governor. Personally if I hit something with my p!
>> rop my insurance is paying for the blade, prop, engine or what!
>> ever so
>> I wouldn't take that into consideration when buying a prop. MT has a lot
>> of great people that are dealers, employees, and pilots flying their
>> product and they do make a good prop that is certified. However it's been
>> my experience that Whirlwind has a better and significantly cheaper prop
>> that doesn't need any tweaked or new governor to make it work right and I
>> don't have to constantly repair or balance it either. So for me if I
>> needed to buy a new prop, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Whirlwind.
>>
>> Kendal
>>
>> On Jul 17, 2012, at 17:12, Herb Coussons <drc@wscare.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I have had excellent experience with MT in the US. I have had typical
>>> short, uninterested types of discussions with the Europeans. So not
>>> surprising to hear of Ray's experience with MT reps at OSH.
>>>
>>> The local MT shop gets 2 thumbs up. 6-7 years ago I also hit something
>>> at OSH and dinged one blade. In less than 24 hours I had a matched set
>>> of blades overnighted from MT USA in florida, my local MT rep did the
>>> tear down and rebuild and the prop was back on the plane flying the same
>>> day.
>>>
>>> Herb
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 17, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Cpayne wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> A few years back, during AirVenture, Ray Gage ran over an orange cone
>>>> out in warbird parking with his -TW with an MT. His MT prop sustained
>>>> damage on one blade. The MT rep at Oshkosh, told Ray that single blades
>>>> could not be replaced, they must be replaced as a set of three. Further
>>>> more they said that the prop hub needed to be examined as well and they
>>>> offered to do it.
>>>>
>>>> I observed the teardown, one of the plastic pitch change blocks had
>>>> dented the aluminum rub plate. MT said it was not serviceable and
>>>> charged Ray for a whole new prop. It took a while to get the prop.
>>>>
>>>> After seeing this, and the type of customer service Ray received, I
>>>> decided to forgo purchasing an MT prop.
>>>>
>>>> Craig Payne
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop |
I have had the same experience as Kendall, flying the MTV 9-260-29 on the Sukhoi.
The prop needs to be inspected and re-shimmed and balanced every 150 hr. after
a steady diet of tumbles and knife edge spins. it has several narrow rpm ranges
that are smooth and does not allow utilization of the engines flexibility,
though has Great performance at full power. I would love to try a Whirlwind
prop to compare .
Rick Volker
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2012, at 7:49 AM, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be> wrote:
>
> This is a remarkable story.
>
> Anyway I have an MTV-9-260 prop on my Yak 50, never had any issues, and
> I'm very satisfied with it.
>
> What exact type of MT prop did you have? There's a service letter from MT
> about excessive oil leaks.
>
> Excessive oil leakage can occur when oil with a lot of dirt cuts deep
> scratches on the surface of the pitch change cylinder.
>
> Then you have to change the cylinder and add extra PTFE seals. The newer
> props all have these extra seals, I think.
>
>
> Jan
>
>
>
> On 18/07/12 13:15, "Kendal Simpson" <kendal@acronut.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes I worked a deal with Whirlwind but here is some history and my
>> experiences.
>> The last MT prop I owned I couldn't go a full season without it needing
>> to be repaired by MT. The first time I went just over a year since
>> overhaul before I called them about the enormous amount of grease it was
>> slinging. I had to pay for the repair since I waited a month too long.
>> The next two times I would email pics a couple months or weeks after the
>> repairs and then they would cover the labor when I would send it to them.
>> Unfortunately I had to pay for either the shipping or the flight down to
>> FL to have them do it. They wouldn't let the prop shop here in PA do the
>> "warranty" work even though they are an MT authorized shop. I personally
>> don't know any other of my friends who haven't had similar issues with
>> their MTs, and I'm not just talking about a little bit of grease on the
>> back of the blades... When I learned that Whirlwind had this new prop
>> about the same time my new plane was being completed I was excited
>> because I have several friends with Whirlwinds in their L!
>> ycomings and are extremely happy with them. I called Whirlwind and they
>> said they needed to do some setup and testing with this new prop so I
>> volunteered. After we got the pitch stops and counterweights set
>> correctly the prop has been fantastic and trouble free. I've had it two
>> years and over 200 hours on it now and it has needed nothing. I've never
>> flown an MT on an M14 that had more than about 3 very small power ranges
>> where it felt in balance and smooth. When we would have it balanced it
>> would be great until I would do a couple snap rolls or tumbles then it
>> was back to shaking at almost every power setting again. All four that I
>> have flown in different engines would be smooth all the way back or full
>> power but could never do mid range power settings without it being rough.
>> My Whirlwind is extremely smooth at any power setting! I have also
>> had zero surging or any other issues with my Whirlwind running the stock
>> M14 governor. Personally if I hit something with my p!
>> rop my insurance is paying for the blade, prop, engine or what!
>> ever so
>> I wouldn't take that into consideration when buying a prop. MT has a lot
>> of great people that are dealers, employees, and pilots flying their
>> product and they do make a good prop that is certified. However it's been
>> my experience that Whirlwind has a better and significantly cheaper prop
>> that doesn't need any tweaked or new governor to make it work right and I
>> don't have to constantly repair or balance it either. So for me if I
>> needed to buy a new prop, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Whirlwind.
>>
>> Kendal
>>
>> On Jul 17, 2012, at 17:12, Herb Coussons <drc@wscare.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I have had excellent experience with MT in the US. I have had typical
>>> short, uninterested types of discussions with the Europeans. So not
>>> surprising to hear of Ray's experience with MT reps at OSH.
>>>
>>> The local MT shop gets 2 thumbs up. 6-7 years ago I also hit something
>>> at OSH and dinged one blade. In less than 24 hours I had a matched set
>>> of blades overnighted from MT USA in florida, my local MT rep did the
>>> tear down and rebuild and the prop was back on the plane flying the same
>>> day.
>>>
>>> Herb
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 17, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Cpayne wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> A few years back, during AirVenture, Ray Gage ran over an orange cone
>>>> out in warbird parking with his -TW with an MT. His MT prop sustained
>>>> damage on one blade. The MT rep at Oshkosh, told Ray that single blades
>>>> could not be replaced, they must be replaced as a set of three. Further
>>>> more they said that the prop hub needed to be examined as well and they
>>>> offered to do it.
>>>>
>>>> I observed the teardown, one of the plastic pitch change blocks had
>>>> dented the aluminum rub plate. MT said it was not serviceable and
>>>> charged Ray for a whole new prop. It took a while to get the prop.
>>>>
>>>> After seeing this, and the type of customer service Ray received, I
>>>> decided to forgo purchasing an MT prop.
>>>>
>>>> Craig Payne
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a |
prop
Thanks for sharing!
Jan
On 18/07/12 14:07, "Kendal Simpson" <kendal@acronut.com> wrote:
>
>That particular prop was an MTV9 on my S2S. They installed 2 or 3 sets of
>the new seals on it and the problem always returned.
>Kendal
>
>On Jul 18, 2012, at 7:49, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be> wrote:
>
>>
>> This is a remarkable story.
>>
>> Anyway I have an MTV-9-260 prop on my Yak 50, never had any issues, and
>> I'm very satisfied with it.
>>
>> What exact type of MT prop did you have? There's a service letter from
>>MT
>> about excessive oil leaks.
>>
>> Excessive oil leakage can occur when oil with a lot of dirt cuts deep
>> scratches on the surface of the pitch change cylinder.
>>
>> Then you have to change the cylinder and add extra PTFE seals. The newer
>> props all have these extra seals, I think.
>>
>>
>> Jan
>>
>>
>>
>> On 18/07/12 13:15, "Kendal Simpson" <kendal@acronut.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Yes I worked a deal with Whirlwind but here is some history and my
>>> experiences.
>>> The last MT prop I owned I couldn't go a full season without it needing
>>> to be repaired by MT. The first time I went just over a year since
>>> overhaul before I called them about the enormous amount of grease it
>>>was
>>> slinging. I had to pay for the repair since I waited a month too long.
>>> The next two times I would email pics a couple months or weeks after
>>>the
>>> repairs and then they would cover the labor when I would send it to
>>>them.
>>> Unfortunately I had to pay for either the shipping or the flight down
>>>to
>>> FL to have them do it. They wouldn't let the prop shop here in PA do
>>>the
>>> "warranty" work even though they are an MT authorized shop. I
>>>personally
>>> don't know any other of my friends who haven't had similar issues with
>>> their MTs, and I'm not just talking about a little bit of grease on the
>>> back of the blades... When I learned that Whirlwind had this new prop
>>> about the same time my new plane was being completed I was excited
>>> because I have several friends with Whirlwinds in their L!
>>> ycomings and are extremely happy with them. I called Whirlwind and they
>>> said they needed to do some setup and testing with this new prop so I
>>> volunteered. After we got the pitch stops and counterweights set
>>> correctly the prop has been fantastic and trouble free. I've had it two
>>> years and over 200 hours on it now and it has needed nothing. I've
>>>never
>>> flown an MT on an M14 that had more than about 3 very small power
>>>ranges
>>> where it felt in balance and smooth. When we would have it balanced it
>>> would be great until I would do a couple snap rolls or tumbles then it
>>> was back to shaking at almost every power setting again. All four
>>>that I
>>> have flown in different engines would be smooth all the way back or
>>>full
>>> power but could never do mid range power settings without it being
>>>rough.
>>> My Whirlwind is extremely smooth at any power setting! I have also
>>> had zero surging or any other issues with my Whirlwind running the
>>>stock
>>> M14 governor. Personally if I hit something with my p!
>>> rop my insurance is paying for the blade, prop, engine or what!
>>> ever so
>>> I wouldn't take that into consideration when buying a prop. MT has a
>>>lot
>>> of great people that are dealers, employees, and pilots flying their
>>> product and they do make a good prop that is certified. However it's
>>>been
>>> my experience that Whirlwind has a better and significantly cheaper
>>>prop
>>> that doesn't need any tweaked or new governor to make it work right
>>>and I
>>> don't have to constantly repair or balance it either. So for me if I
>>> needed to buy a new prop, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Whirlwind.
>>>
>>> Kendal
>>>
>>> On Jul 17, 2012, at 17:12, Herb Coussons <drc@wscare.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have had excellent experience with MT in the US. I have had typical
>>>> short, uninterested types of discussions with the Europeans. So not
>>>> surprising to hear of Ray's experience with MT reps at OSH.
>>>>
>>>> The local MT shop gets 2 thumbs up. 6-7 years ago I also hit
>>>>something
>>>> at OSH and dinged one blade. In less than 24 hours I had a matched
>>>>set
>>>> of blades overnighted from MT USA in florida, my local MT rep did the
>>>> tear down and rebuild and the prop was back on the plane flying the
>>>>same
>>>> day.
>>>>
>>>> Herb
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 17, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Cpayne wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A few years back, during AirVenture, Ray Gage ran over an orange cone
>>>>> out in warbird parking with his -TW with an MT. His MT prop sustained
>>>>> damage on one blade. The MT rep at Oshkosh, told Ray that single
>>>>>blades
>>>>> could not be replaced, they must be replaced as a set of three.
>>>>>Further
>>>>> more they said that the prop hub needed to be examined as well and
>>>>>they
>>>>> offered to do it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I observed the teardown, one of the plastic pitch change blocks had
>>>>> dented the aluminum rub plate. MT said it was not serviceable and
>>>>> charged Ray for a whole new prop. It took a while to get the prop.
>>>>>
>>>>> After seeing this, and the type of customer service Ray received, I
>>>>> decided to forgo purchasing an MT prop.
>>>>>
>>>>> Craig Payne
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade |
Propeller
Good answer!
Thanks for writing it Warren!
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Warren Hill
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
Mark,
I was one of the first users of the WhirlWind 2-blade composite prop for the M-14P
back in 2010. Paid full price and have been very happy.
The only down side of being an early (first) adaptor was determining the optimum
blade angle. The original setting only gave me 82% power on takeoff. Through
a little trial and error ended up at 17.5 degrees and it has been a delight ever
since. Can't say enough good things about this one.
Warren
On Jul 17, 2012, at 12:15 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
64E wrote:
>
> I made the call, (440-275-1540) and talked to Jeremy.
>
> Some points to consider (at least for me) : THIS IS AN EXPERIMENTAL PROPELLOR
>
> 1. As such all inspections listed are "recommended" and not mandatory. Whirlwind
will send out a "Service Letter" if an inspection moves into the high priority
category. In my mind there are pro's and con's here. Lots and LOTS of
good things are involved with certified props such as MT models. But an Experimental
Prop is the same as an Experimental Airplane as far as the FAA is concerned,
which can be a good thing in certain situations in certain "Regions" of
the U.S. Just saying.
>
> 2. As of TODAY, the recommended tear down period has been extended to 400 hours/5
years. Either or. Again, this is a RECOMMENDED tear down period, since
it is an Experimental Prop, this recommendation does not carry the same weight
as it does with a Certified Prop. I.E. You are not required to comply with
it, but you're not too bright if you do not.
>
> Price is about the same as the certified MT props.
>
> I did not question or discuss blade repair issues or vibration dampening.
>
> Jeremy pointed out some YouTube videos of a Pitts S12 and other aircraft running
this prop. Very impressive.
>
> I do have a general question for the folks flying the Whirlwind props on M-14
engines. How did you folks decide to take the leap and go with this prop as
compared to say the MT series? Did you pay full price for these props, or did
you receive a discount for acting as a test bed?
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:37 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
>
> Hi Mark,
> Your questions are very legitimate and I think would be best answered by contacting
Whirlwind Aviation directly at 440.275.1530. When contacting Whirlwind,
ask for the General Manager, Jeremy.
>
> As to the governor for the stock M14P engine, the standard Governor is used.
>
> Sam
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
> From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> CC:
>
>
>
>
> Sam,
>
> Understood on how the type of flying impacts the reliability of propellers.
>
> What I am honestly interested in is the written information that relates to the
tear down inspection intervals recommended by the manufacturer officially and
in writing for either the blades, and/or the hub, both of which I refer to
as "the propeller".
>
> You also said: "If you fly hard airshow or competition aerobatics, the 250 hours
/ 1 year would definitely make sense."
>
> What defines "hard" air show aerobatics? Are we talking gyroscopic maneuvers?
Are we talking snap rolls? Just what exactly? Competition Aerobatics spans
the realm from Sportsman, to Unlimited with a wide margin in the middle.
>
> Whirlwind obviously must have a set policy where some inspections might be "required"
and some might be "recommended".
>
> What I am looking at here is a pretty hefty price tag if you purchase the blades,
required hub, and ..... does it also require a different prop governor?
>
> In any case, before I plop down 15-18 K$ on a new prop assy., I'd like to read
the fine print. Not trying to put anyone on the spot here, I just think the
original question is apt, and I am still not quite sure of the answer.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 6:06 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
>
> Mark,
> I'm on the road on business and will look at my propeller data sheet when back
in miami. If I recall correctly Whirlwind indicated that the limiting element
is not the blade but the hub - I believe this would be the case with the other
manufacturers also. If you fly hard airshow or competition aerobatics, the
250 hours / 1 year would definitly make sense.
> I see your point but with the type of flying I do, formation and moderate aerobatics,
I'm not real concern about the reliability of the hub.
> The nearly 1000 hours I have on their hub on my older prop (same) gives me good
confidence that it 'll work tomorrow too... :)
> Sam
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
> From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> CC:
>
>
>
>
> Sam, I am curious.
>
> When I go to their web page:
>
> http://www.whirlwindaviation.com/props/400cmseries.asp
>
> Under "Specifications" I see this:
>
> "Tear Down Inspection: 250 hours or 1 years"
>
> In the owner's manual I find this statement:
>
> "7.1 Teardown Inspection Schedule
> Refer to the original propeller data sheet for recommended
> teardown inspection schedule. If the original data sheet
> cannot be found, please contact Whirl Wind Aviation directly
> to confirm the recommended schedule for your propeller."
>
> So, it appears rather vague to me just what the tear-down schedule is when approached
by a new potential buyer such as myself.
>
> Do you have a copy of the "original propeller data sheet" that actually gives
the recommended teardown inspection schedule? Recommendations by owners are
of course welcomed at all times, but all props have some kind of official life
history inspection schedule. Of course, anyone can contact Whirlwind directly
for a verbal answer, but I sure would like to see something in writing.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:40 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
>
>
> Hi econ,
> The prop flies even better than it looks...!
> No, it is not necessary or required to remove once a year and this is nowhere
in the operations manual that came with prop. If you fly continuiously heavy
acrobatics they recommend inspection every 250 hours. I fly moderate acro and
don't expect inspection before 500 hours.
> I suggest you call whirlwind directly and speak with Jeremy ans say hello from
me :)
> Feel free to call me if you need more info. Ill be glad to help.
> Sam Sax
> 305.215.5599 cell
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
> From: Egon <egonmahr@westnet.com.au>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> CC:
>
>
>
>
> Hi Sam.
> The prop looks fantastic. Is it true that it has to be removed and inspected
once a year? I am weighing up between the Whirlwind and the MT, and the requirement
to pull the prop and send it to a Prop Shop every year irrespective of hours
flown seems a little onerous. What do you think?
> Cheers Egon.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378371#378371
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~,g(MGqz{nrf
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~,gky
> x ojja{nrf
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~,g(MGqzky
> x o{{nrf
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 55M Voltage regulator Overvoltage? |
Gentlemen,
The problem was primarily an over voltage situation that was stressing the two
small 7AH batteries that I use inboard the aircraft causing an over current situation
to the batteries.
For other Yak 55 owners with the original system installed it was quite simple
to adjust.
The CB I was complaining about earlier is an over current CB designed to take the
batteries off line if it detects a short on the battery direct bus, or to high
of a load from overcharging. The over current was due to too much voltage
(30v+) trying to cram into those small gell cell batteries.
Located on the top right corner near the firewall behind the panel above the spar,
is a cylinder looking object with cooling fins. This is the voltage regulator.
Looking at it from the cockpit seat there are two set screws holding down
the big (slot) master adjustment screw. My set screws were safety wired. Once
the set screws were loosened. the big adjustment screw in the middle can be
rotated. Rotating clockwise to REDUCE voltage and counterclockwise to INCREASE
voltage. I set mine to 26-27.5v with varying RPM.
The mistake I made earlier is that I turned the regulator the wrong way initially,
and this tripped the OVER VOLTAGE relay when the Voltage peaked over 31v on
run up. This then tripped the Generator off line giving a GEN OFF LIGHT at all
RPMS. The Generator relay is a gray box with two small cannon plugs coming
out of it, located top left corner behind the panel, above the wing spar. On
top of this box, near the rear is a reset button, under what feels like a rubber
cap. Pushing it you will hear a click, indicating the relay is reset.
The stock system worked as designed and is a good system. I'm assuming when one
of these great items fail then the cost replacement/simplicity of going to the
B&C route is definitely worth considering.
I want to give special thanks to Mark Bitterlich for taking my call, while on vacation,
and working with me through the problem. Also, everyone on this list
is an invaluable asset and I am grateful to have such a tool available in my
toolbox in time of need. See you all at a show soon, I hope.
--------
Mark Sorenson-
www.tigerairshows.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378637#378637
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop |
Yeah Jan, you're happy with your MT prop.
But you never do any snaps, flat spins, tumbling or Lomcevaks with your Yak 50.
;-)
We've got the standard Russian V530 TA-D35 on our Yak-52 (and a spinner !)
and we have NEVER had any issues with it ... so far.
Perfectly statically and dynamically balanced (prop-engine-spinner).
Very smooth throughout the complete RPM range, from idle to full power and every
power/prop combination in between.
And we do A LOT of snaps, flat spins, tumbling or Lomcevaks with your Yak 52. [Wink]
http://www.irishairpics.com/photo/1029467/L/Yakovlev-Yak-52/G-CBSS/Etienne-Verhellen/?&sid=&sp
http://youtu.be/nEp-WMjJdvw
http://www.rtbf.be/video/v_meeting-aerien-a-saint-hubert?id=1730533&category=info
http://forums.matronics.com/download.php?id=8504
We like to keep it simple.
"If it ain't broke don't fix it"
The only thing is that it "needs" overhaul every 6 years according to
the very strict maintenance rules edicted by the UK CAA for Yakovlevs.
Skycraft in the UK or Hoffmann in Germany do a good job overhauling
the standard Russian V530 TA-D35 2 blade paddle prop. 8)
Having said that, as reported by Richard in a previous post,
a lot of much better pilot than me (most if not all) fly behind MT propellers,
"which must say something".
I'm just saying that a "good old" Russian V530 TA-D35 is certainly good enough
for most Yaks (50 and 52).
Best Wishes, Etienne.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378647#378647
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing |
a prop
Etienne,
http://who_really_cares_how Jan flies his own airplane?
Are you recommending that the V530 be flown in engines that produce more
than 400 HP?
If so, bad advice.
Best Wishes,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Etienne
Verhellen
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 13:08
Subject: Yak-List: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when
choosing a prop
Yeah Jan, you're happy with your MT prop.
But you never do any snaps, flat spins, tumbling or Lomcevaks with your
Yak 50. ;-)
We've got the standard Russian V530 TA-D35 on our Yak-52 (and a spinner
!)
and we have NEVER had any issues with it ... so far.
Perfectly statically and dynamically balanced (prop-engine-spinner).
Very smooth throughout the complete RPM range, from idle to full power
and every power/prop combination in between.
And we do A LOT of snaps, flat spins, tumbling or Lomcevaks with your
Yak 52. [Wink]
http://www.irishairpics.com/photo/1029467/L/Yakovlev-Yak-52/G-CBSS/Etien
ne-Verhellen/?&sid=&sp
http://youtu.be/nEp-WMjJdvw
http://www.rtbf.be/video/v_meeting-aerien-a-saint-hubert?id=1730533&cate
gory=info
http://forums.matronics.com/download.php?id=8504
We like to keep it simple.
"If it ain't broke don't fix it"
The only thing is that it "needs" overhaul every 6 years according to
the very strict maintenance rules edicted by the UK CAA for Yakovlevs.
Skycraft in the UK or Hoffmann in Germany do a good job overhauling
the standard Russian V530 TA-D35 2 blade paddle prop. 8)
Having said that, as reported by Richard in a previous post,
a lot of much better pilot than me (most if not all) fly behind MT
propellers,
"which must say something".
I'm just saying that a "good old" Russian V530 TA-D35 is certainly good
enough for most Yaks (50 and 52).
Best Wishes, Etienne.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378647#378647
Message 10
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Okay, who is snookum?
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 17, 2012, at 11:35 PM, cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
> 0A3 does have patrol and that's where we'll be meeting up with "Lefty" bec
ause its right next door to him.
>
> As for C16 I show a $6.41 price, but Frasca usually give us a discount for
stopping by.
> TAZ is a little far west from a straight shot north. And way out of the w
ay for Lefty.
>
> HXF sound like a good stop to tank up ($5.15/g) before OSH.
>
> So looking at :
>
> Me Chevy & maybe Smily FD44 to OPN
> Pickup Snookum, Lefty, & Goatboy at 0A3
> 5or6 ship to C16.
> 5or6 ship to HXF.
> 5or6 ship to OSH.
>
> We'll plan on leaving FD44 right after sunup to OPN.
> Takeoff + 2:00
> OPN to 0A3 = 1:30
> 0A3 to C16 = 2:06
> C16 to HXF = 1:30
> HXF to OSH = :20
>
> Goatboy maybe you can meet up with Snookum at MSL than to 0A3.
>
> How's that sound guys?
>
>
>
> In a message dated 7/16/2012 10:13:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, djester@
gjtbs.com writes:
> Better for me to meet you at 0A3...I note Smithville has no fuel. SYI has
fuel for 4.99 per gallon and is about 20 SW. Fuel at C16 is 6.74 a gallon.
There is fuel 60 SW for 5.00 per (TAZ). About 30 south of OSH gas is 5.14
while at OSH it's 5.47.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> <SilverAnniversaryLogo2small.jpg>
>
> Dave Jester, Director
> GALLOWAY, JOHNSON, TOMPKINS, BURR & SMITH, A PLC
> Phone: 850-436-7000 | Direct: 850-436-7010 | Cell: 850-291-4174 | Fax: 850
-436-7099
> 118 East Garden Street Pensacola, 32502
> Email: djester@gjtbs.com
>
>
>
> Website | Bio | vCard
>
> Houston =99 St. Louis =99 Lafayette =99 Mandeville =99
New Orleans =99 Gulfport =99 Mobile =99 Pensacola =99
Tampa =99 Atlanta
>
> CONFIDENTIAL ATTORNEY-CLIENT OR OTHERWISE PRIVILEGED COMMUNICATION
> DO NOT FORWARD WITHOUT PERMISSION
>
> On Jul 16, 2012, at 5:49 PM, "cjpilot710@aol.com" <cjpilot710@aol.com> wro
te:
>
>> Troops,
>>
>> Here is the first iteration of our proposed odyssey to OSH.
>>
>>
>> Chevy, me and possibly Smiley : Airborne sunup 21 July. WXP
>>
>> FD44 to OPN = 251nm
>> OPN to 0A3 = 197nm
>> 0A3 to C16 = 273nm
>> C16 to OSH = 230nm
>>
>> Perhaps Goatboy could sortie his way to OPN and Snookum could find us at 0
A3.
>> What say ye?
>>
>> Pappy
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing |
a prop
FWIW -
465 hours MT9 with tumbles and snaps. No problems.
Also had an MT3 on Yak 55 - no problems. This was another cold reception by the
Germans - finding out any service info on the MT3.
But again local advice from rep was excellent.
My local rep is Larry Schlasinger in Chetek WI. He is a Yak / I3 / Sukhoi aerobatic
pilot.
Herb
drc@wscare.com
2641 Development Drive
Green Bay, WI 54311
Cell 920-639-8434
Work 920-338-6868
Fax 920-338-6869
On Jul 18, 2012, at 12:08 PM, Etienne Verhellen wrote:
>
> Yeah Jan, you're happy with your MT prop.
> But you never do any snaps, flat spins, tumbling or Lomcevaks with your Yak 50.
;-)
> We've got the standard Russian V530 TA-D35 on our Yak-52 (and a spinner !)
> and we have NEVER had any issues with it ... so far.
> Perfectly statically and dynamically balanced (prop-engine-spinner).
> Very smooth throughout the complete RPM range, from idle to full power and every
power/prop combination in between.
> And we do A LOT of snaps, flat spins, tumbling or Lomcevaks with your Yak 52.
[Wink]
> http://www.irishairpics.com/photo/1029467/L/Yakovlev-Yak-52/G-CBSS/Etienne-Verhellen/?&sid=&sp
> http://youtu.be/nEp-WMjJdvw
> http://www.rtbf.be/video/v_meeting-aerien-a-saint-hubert?id=1730533&category=info
> http://forums.matronics.com/download.php?id=8504
> We like to keep it simple.
> "If it ain't broke don't fix it"
> The only thing is that it "needs" overhaul every 6 years according to
> the very strict maintenance rules edicted by the UK CAA for Yakovlevs.
> Skycraft in the UK or Hoffmann in Germany do a good job overhauling
> the standard Russian V530 TA-D35 2 blade paddle prop. 8)
> Having said that, as reported by Richard in a previous post,
> a lot of much better pilot than me (most if not all) fly behind MT propellers,
> "which must say something".
> I'm just saying that a "good old" Russian V530 TA-D35 is certainly good enough
for most Yaks (50 and 52).
> Best Wishes, Etienne.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378647#378647
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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Headed to AirVenture tomorrow with my mobile "shop" for those in need of A&P services
or just some good BS. "BS" best served with bratwurst and Wisconsin beer.
Craig Payne
Message 13
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Jeff said the price for fuel @ OSH is below 5.00 / may go up for show Dave
can you check it ?
In a message dated 7/17/2012 11:35:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
cjpilot710@aol.com writes:
0A3 does have patrol and that's where we'll be meeting up with "Lefty"
because its right next door to him.
As for C16 I show a $6.41 price, but Frasca usually give us a discount for
stopping by.
TAZ is a little far west from a straight shot north. And way out of the
way for Lefty.
HXF sound like a good stop to tank up ($5.15/g) before OSH.
So looking at :
Me Chevy & maybe Smily FD44 to OPN
Pickup Snookum, Lefty, & Goatboy at 0A3
5or6 ship to C16.
5or6 ship to HXF.
5or6 ship to OSH.
We'll plan on leaving FD44 right after sunup to OPN.
Takeoff + 2:00
OPN to 0A3 = 1:30
0A3 to C16 = 2:06
C16 to HXF = 1:30
HXF to OSH = :20
Goatboy maybe you can meet up with Snookum at MSL than to 0A3.
How's that sound guys?
In a message dated 7/16/2012 10:13:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
djester@gjtbs.com writes:
Better for me to meet you at 0A3...I note Smithville has no fuel. SYI has
fuel for 4.99 per gallon and is about 20 SW. Fuel at C16 is 6.74 a gallon
.
There is fuel 60 SW for 5.00 per (TAZ). About 30 south of OSH gas is
5.14 while at OSH it's 5.47.
Sent from my iPad
Sincerely,
Dave Jester, Director
GALLOWAY, JOHNSON, TOMPKINS, BURR & SMITH, A PLC
Phone: 850-436-7000 | Direct: 850-436-7010 | Cell: 850-291-4174 | Fax:
850-436-7099
118 East Garden Street Pensacola, 32502
Email: _djester@gjtbs.com_ (mailto:djester@gjtbs.com)
_Website_ (http://www.gjtbs.com/) | _Bio_
(http://www.gjtbs.com/ftpuser/attorney.php?slugline=jester) | _vCard_
(http://gjtbs.com/~gjtbspl/ftpuser/upload/W.%20David%20Jester.vcf)
Houston =99 St. Louis =99 Lafayette =99 Mandeville
=99 New Orleans =99 Gulfport =99
Mobile =99 Pensacola =99 Tampa =99 Atlanta
CONFIDENTIAL ATTORNEY-CLIENT OR OTHERWISE PRIVILEGED COMMUNICATION
DO NOT FORWARD WITHOUT PERMISSION On Jul 16, 2012, at 5:49 PM,
"_cjpilot710@aol.com_ (mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com) " <_cjpilot710@aol.com_
(mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com) > wrote:
Troops,
Here is the first iteration of our proposed odyssey to OSH.
Chevy, me and possibly Smiley : Airborne sunup 21 July. WXP
FD44 to OPN = 251nm
OPN to 0A3 = 197nm
0A3 to C16 = 273nm
C16 to OSH = 230nm
Perhaps Goatboy could sortie his way to OPN and Snookum could find us at
0A3.
What say ye?
Pappy
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing |
a prop
Well, I don't plan to do any "serious"" aerobatics with my 50 anyway.
That's not a problem of the engine or the propeller, the plane is just too
old (and too nice and to precious - to me) to be flown hard.
And I am to old too
With 450 horsepower (even more now, with electronic ignition ) I just
have the mere fun of outclimbing every other dude in the far neighborhood,
be it with Extra or Edge or whatever.
And I NEVER pull more than 5 G (it used to be different in the past, I
know).
Jan
On 18/07/12 19:08, "Etienne Verhellen" <janie@yak52.fr> wrote:
>
>Yeah Jan, you're happy with your MT prop.
>But you never do any snaps, flat spins, tumbling or Lomcevaks with your
>Yak 50. ;-)
>We've got the standard Russian V530 TA-D35 on our Yak-52 (and a spinner !)
>and we have NEVER had any issues with it ... so far.
>Perfectly statically and dynamically balanced (prop-engine-spinner).
>Very smooth throughout the complete RPM range, from idle to full power
>and every power/prop combination in between.
>And we do A LOT of snaps, flat spins, tumbling or Lomcevaks with your Yak
>52. [Wink]
>http://www.irishairpics.com/photo/1029467/L/Yakovlev-Yak-52/G-CBSS/Etienne
>-Verhellen/?&sid=&sp
>http://youtu.be/nEp-WMjJdvw
>http://www.rtbf.be/video/v_meeting-aerien-a-saint-hubert?id=1730533&catego
>ry=info
>http://forums.matronics.com/download.php?id=8504
>We like to keep it simple.
>"If it ain't broke don't fix it"
>The only thing is that it "needs" overhaul every 6 years according to
>the very strict maintenance rules edicted by the UK CAA for Yakovlevs.
>Skycraft in the UK or Hoffmann in Germany do a good job overhauling
>the standard Russian V530 TA-D35 2 blade paddle prop. 8)
>Having said that, as reported by Richard in a previous post,
>a lot of much better pilot than me (most if not all) fly behind MT
>propellers,
>"which must say something".
>I'm just saying that a "good old" Russian V530 TA-D35 is certainly good
>enough for most Yaks (50 and 52).
>Best Wishes, Etienne.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378647#378647
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller |
Mark,
I tried responding to your message and apparently it didn't go through - I'll try
again :)
Btw, Sorry for the typo on Whirlwind's phone number - my fat fingers on the not-so-smart
phone keypad, you know...
Excellent news regarding Whirlwind service interval extension to 400 hours/5 years!
I went back and looked at the logbook of my first three bladed prop from Whirlwind
and logbook says I flew it for a total time of 725 hours - during that time
I had it serviced only once. The service process was simply taking it to a
local Miami Prop shop who disassembled it and sent the blades to Whirlwind for
inspection and re-paint (per my request). Two weeks later, during which the
prop shop serviced my hub, they reinstalled and statically balanced the blades
and I flew the following day - simple and easy (for me).
My story with the new propeller and the Youtube Video is a little different - I
already had a spare McCauley hub that I acquired on-line a couple of years ago
so this was only a re-blading with servicing the hub job. I told Jeremy at
the time, that I intend to do a video review and will tell it like it is to the
folks who may be interested in what I have to say about it. I have been a member
of the Yak-List since day one, and a member of "The Yak Club" (for those
of us who remember :) ) which preceded our RPA... and was not going to tell
our member anything that I havent experienced myself. As I mentioned before,
I flew behind the Whirlwind 'first generation' hub and propeller for years with
zero issues so my trust in their product and their high level of service is
based on actual operational experience and ownership over a long time. As you
may know, they have been producing 2 and 3 blades propellers for a long time
with very good reputation for the Homebuilt segment of the aviation market.
Having said all that, I did not have experience with their new blades for the
M-14P and wasn't 100% sure the new blades would be as good or better which is
the reason I told Jeremy of my intention in doing the video review.
It was very helpful to have a very talented and close flying friend who is a professional business video producer (VTM Productions) who did all the aerial and ground video as well as the setup work - I'm sure you'd agree that is nothing else, it looks professionally done. I had no idea so much goes into producing a good video clip! It was a lot of fun doing it. I may look a little 'stiff' on the video but unfortunately, I have no Hollywood experience.. LOL. This prop really does make me grin when I fly acro or formation which is why I sound a 'bit' excited about it in the video... If you haven't seen the video yet, simply go to youtube.com and search for "Whirlwind Aviation Propeller" or use this link to go there directly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sFFD_XNpa4 .
As far as I'm concerned, the Whirlwind propeller for the M-14P is the best available
and best value today - best value in price, service, reliability and performance
- again, this is only my opinion.
Besides, with all due respect for our international members, This propeller is
made in America - and I much prefer supporting an American company and help keeping
the jobs here at home - I am sure you feel the same way. So as long as
Whirlwind continues to manufacture a superb product, they will get my business
:)
Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:11 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
Good answer!
Thanks for writing it Warren!
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Warren Hill
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
Mark,
I was one of the first users of the WhirlWind 2-blade composite prop for the M-14P
back in 2010. Paid full price and have been very happy.
The only down side of being an early (first) adaptor was determining the optimum
blade angle. The original setting only gave me 82% power on takeoff. Through
a little trial and error ended up at 17.5 degrees and it has been a delight ever
since. Can't say enough good things about this one.
Warren
On Jul 17, 2012, at 12:15 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
64E wrote:
>
> I made the call, (440-275-1540) and talked to Jeremy.
>
> Some points to consider (at least for me) : THIS IS AN EXPERIMENTAL PROPELLOR
>
> 1. As such all inspections listed are "recommended" and not mandatory. Whirlwind
will send out a "Service Letter" if an inspection moves into the high priority
category. In my mind there are pro's and con's here. Lots and LOTS of
good things are involved with certified props such as MT models. But an Experimental
Prop is the same as an Experimental Airplane as far as the FAA is concerned,
which can be a good thing in certain situations in certain "Regions" of
the U.S. Just saying.
>
> 2. As of TODAY, the recommended tear down period has been extended to 400 hours/5
years. Either or. Again, this is a RECOMMENDED tear down period, since
it is an Experimental Prop, this recommendation does not carry the same weight
as it does with a Certified Prop. I.E. You are not required to comply with
it, but you're not too bright if you do not.
>
> Price is about the same as the certified MT props.
>
> I did not question or discuss blade repair issues or vibration dampening.
>
> Jeremy pointed out some YouTube videos of a Pitts S12 and other aircraft running
this prop. Very impressive.
>
> I do have a general question for the folks flying the Whirlwind props on M-14
engines. How did you folks decide to take the leap and go with this prop as
compared to say the MT series? Did you pay full price for these props, or did
you receive a discount for acting as a test bed?
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:37 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
>
> Hi Mark,
> Your questions are very legitimate and I think would be best answered by contacting
Whirlwind Aviation directly at 440.275.1530. When contacting Whirlwind,
ask for the General Manager, Jeremy.
>
> As to the governor for the stock M14P engine, the standard Governor is used.
>
> Sam
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
> From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> CC:
>
>
>
>
> Sam,
>
> Understood on how the type of flying impacts the reliability of propellers.
>
> What I am honestly interested in is the written information that relates to the
tear down inspection intervals recommended by the manufacturer officially and
in writing for either the blades, and/or the hub, both of which I refer to
as "the propeller".
>
> You also said: "If you fly hard airshow or competition aerobatics, the 250 hours
/ 1 year would definitely make sense."
>
> What defines "hard" air show aerobatics? Are we talking gyroscopic maneuvers?
Are we talking snap rolls? Just what exactly? Competition Aerobatics spans
the realm from Sportsman, to Unlimited with a wide margin in the middle.
>
> Whirlwind obviously must have a set policy where some inspections might be "required"
and some might be "recommended".
>
> What I am looking at here is a pretty hefty price tag if you purchase the blades,
required hub, and ..... does it also require a different prop governor?
>
> In any case, before I plop down 15-18 K$ on a new prop assy., I'd like to read
the fine print. Not trying to put anyone on the spot here, I just think the
original question is apt, and I am still not quite sure of the answer.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 6:06 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
>
> Mark,
> I'm on the road on business and will look at my propeller data sheet when back
in miami. If I recall correctly Whirlwind indicated that the limiting element
is not the blade but the hub - I believe this would be the case with the other
manufacturers also. If you fly hard airshow or competition aerobatics, the
250 hours / 1 year would definitly make sense.
> I see your point but with the type of flying I do, formation and moderate aerobatics,
I'm not real concern about the reliability of the hub.
> The nearly 1000 hours I have on their hub on my older prop (same) gives me good
confidence that it 'll work tomorrow too... :)
> Sam
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
> From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> CC:
>
>
>
>
> Sam, I am curious.
>
> When I go to their web page:
>
> http://www.whirlwindaviation.com/props/400cmseries.asp
>
> Under "Specifications" I see this:
>
> "Tear Down Inspection: 250 hours or 1 years"
>
> In the owner's manual I find this statement:
>
> "7.1 Teardown Inspection Schedule
> Refer to the original propeller data sheet for recommended
> teardown inspection schedule. If the original data sheet
> cannot be found, please contact Whirl Wind Aviation directly
> to confirm the recommended schedule for your propeller."
>
> So, it appears rather vague to me just what the tear-down schedule is when approached
by a new potential buyer such as myself.
>
> Do you have a copy of the "original propeller data sheet" that actually gives
the recommended teardown inspection schedule? Recommendations by owners are
of course welcomed at all times, but all props have some kind of official life
history inspection schedule. Of course, anyone can contact Whirlwind directly
for a verbal answer, but I sure would like to see something in writing.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:40 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
>
>
> Hi econ,
> The prop flies even better than it looks...!
> No, it is not necessary or required to remove once a year and this is nowhere
in the operations manual that came with prop. If you fly continuiously heavy
acrobatics they recommend inspection every 250 hours. I fly moderate acro and
don't expect inspection before 500 hours.
> I suggest you call whirlwind directly and speak with Jeremy ans say hello from
me :)
> Feel free to call me if you need more info. Ill be glad to help.
> Sam Sax
> 305.215.5599 cell
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
> From: Egon <egonmahr@westnet.com.au>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> CC:
>
>
>
>
> Hi Sam.
> The prop looks fantastic. Is it true that it has to be removed and inspected
once a year? I am weighing up between the Whirlwind and the MT, and the requirement
to pull the prop and send it to a Prop Shop every year irrespective of hours
flown seems a little onerous. What do you think?
> Cheers Egon.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378371#378371
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~,g(MGqz{nrf
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~,gky
> x ojja{nrf
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~,g(MGqzky
> x o{{nrf
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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OK. So lets try :
FD44 to OPN = 2:00
OPN to SYI =1:30 (join up)
SYI to 1C1 = 2:20
1C1 to HXF = 1:20
ETA SYI about 1100 EST for the Florida bunch.
That sounds good to me.
Every one?
Pappy
In a message dated 7/18/2012 9:19:41 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
randmyak52@bellsouth.net writes:
Pappy, after talking to BJ this morning I suggest that we meet at SYI,
100LL 4.99. the operator there has busted ass to keep fuel below 5.00. Hav
ing
several A/C top off there going and coming will help him continue this.
This would work well for BJ and the two pilots he will have with him. Knoc
king
some thirty miles off their 1st leg. I will just back track to there as
the 4.99 number will compensate for the extra distance. Also would like to
consider making 1C1 our next stop as they have Mo gas and the 100LL is 6.11
,
19 NM N. of Frasca. Agree that the stop @ KHXF is wise as that will provide
fuel for the operations @ OSH @ a savings of some .50 per Gal. I plan to
call the manager @ 1C1 and ask for some slack for having several A/C top o
ff.
Will do what ever you decide.
Lefty
----- Original Message -----
From: _cjpilot710@aol.com_ (mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com)
(mailto:BKENNAMORE@aol.com)
Cc: _jford512001@yahoo.com_ (mailto:jford512001@yahoo.com) ;
_rlanger2@comcast.net_ (mailto:rlanger2@comcast.net) ; _randmyak52@bellsou
th.net_
(mailto:randmyak52@bellsouth.net) ; _yak-list@matronics.com_
(mailto:yak-list@matronics.com)
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: OSH trip
0A3 does have patrol and that's where we'll be meeting up with "Lefty"
because its right next door to him.
As for C16 I show a $6.41 price, but Frasca usually give us a discount for
stopping by.
TAZ is a little far west from a straight shot north. And way out of the
way for Lefty.
HXF sound like a good stop to tank up ($5.15/g) before OSH.
So looking at :
Me Chevy & maybe Smily FD44 to OPN
Pickup Snookum, Lefty, & Goatboy at 0A3
5or6 ship to C16.
5or6 ship to HXF.
5or6 ship to OSH.
We'll plan on leaving FD44 right after sunup to OPN.
Takeoff + 2:00
OPN to 0A3 = 1:30
0A3 to C16 = 2:06
C16 to HXF = 1:30
HXF to OSH = :20
Goatboy maybe you can meet up with Snookum at MSL than to 0A3.
How's that sound guys?
In a message dated 7/16/2012 10:13:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
djester@gjtbs.com writes:
Better for me to meet you at 0A3...I note Smithville has no fuel. SYI has
fuel for 4.99 per gallon and is about 20 SW. Fuel at C16 is 6.74 a gallon
.
There is fuel 60 SW for 5.00 per (TAZ). About 30 south of OSH gas is 5.14
while at OSH it's 5.47.
Sent from my iPad
Sincerely,
Dave Jester, Director
GALLOWAY, JOHNSON, TOMPKINS, BURR & SMITH, A PLC
Phone: 850-436-7000 | Direct: 850-436-7010 | Cell: 850-291-4174 | Fax:
850-436-7099
118 East Garden Street Pensacola, 32502
Email: _djester@gjtbs.com_ (mailto:djester@gjtbs.com)
_Website_ (http://www.gjtbs.com/) | _Bio_
(http://www.gjtbs.com/ftpuser/attorney.php?slugline=jester) | _vCard_
(http://gjtbs.com/~gjtbspl/ftpuser/upload/W.%20David%20Jester.vcf)
Houston =99 St. Louis =99 Lafayette =99 Mandeville
=99 New Orleans =99 Gulfport =99
Mobile =99 Pensacola =99 Tampa =99 Atlanta
CONFIDENTIAL ATTORNEY-CLIENT OR OTHERWISE PRIVILEGED COMMUNICATION
DO NOT FORWARD WITHOUT PERMISSION On Jul 16, 2012, at 5:49 PM,
"_cjpilot710@aol.com_ (mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com) " <_cjpilot710@aol.com_
(mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com) > wrote:
Troops,
Here is the first iteration of our proposed odyssey to OSH.
Chevy, me and possibly Smiley : Airborne sunup 21 July. WXP
FD44 to OPN = 251nm
OPN to 0A3 = 197nm
0A3 to C16 = 273nm
C16 to OSH = 230nm
Perhaps Goatboy could sortie his way to OPN and Snookum could find us at
0A3.
What say ye?
Pappy
Message 17
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Why that's B J Kennamore from MSL.!
In a message dated 7/18/2012 2:31:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
viperdoc@mindspring.com writes:
Okay, who is snookum?
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 17, 2012, at 11:35 PM, _cjpilot710@aol.com_
(mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com) wrote:
0A3 does have patrol and that's where we'll be meeting up with "Lefty"
because its right next door to him.
As for C16 I show a $6.41 price, but Frasca usually give us a discount for
stopping by.
TAZ is a little far west from a straight shot north. And way out of the
way for Lefty.
HXF sound like a good stop to tank up ($5.15/g) before OSH.
So looking at :
Me Chevy & maybe Smily FD44 to OPN
Pickup Snookum, Lefty, & Goatboy at 0A3
5or6 ship to C16.
5or6 ship to HXF.
5or6 ship to OSH.
We'll plan on leaving FD44 right after sunup to OPN.
Takeoff + 2:00
OPN to 0A3 = 1:30
0A3 to C16 = 2:06
C16 to HXF = 1:30
HXF to OSH = :20
Goatboy maybe you can meet up with Snookum at MSL than to 0A3.
How's that sound guys?
In a message dated 7/16/2012 10:13:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_djester@gjtbs.com_ (mailto:djester@gjtbs.com) writes:
Better for me to meet you at 0A3...I note Smithville has no fuel. SYI has
fuel for 4.99 per gallon and is about 20 SW. Fuel at C16 is 6.74 a gallon
.
There is fuel 60 SW for 5.00 per (TAZ). About 30 south of OSH gas is 5.14
while at OSH it's 5.47.
Sent from my iPad
Sincerely,
<SilverAnniversaryLogo2small.jpg>
Dave Jester, Director
GALLOWAY, JOHNSON, TOMPKINS, BURR & SMITH, A PLC
Phone: 850-436-7000 | Direct: 850-436-7010 | Cell: 850-291-4174 | Fax:
850-436-7099
118 East Garden Street Pensacola, 32502
Email: _djester@gjtbs.com_ (mailto:djester@gjtbs.com)
_Website_ (http://www.gjtbs.com/) | _Bio_
(http://www.gjtbs.com/ftpuser/attorney.php?slugline=jester) | _vCard_
(http://gjtbs.com/~gjtbspl/ftpuser/upload/W.%20David%20Jester.vcf)
Houston =99 St. Louis =99 Lafayette =99 Mandeville
=99 New Orleans =99 Gulfport =99
Mobile =99 Pensacola =99 Tampa =99 Atlanta
CONFIDENTIAL ATTORNEY-CLIENT OR OTHERWISE PRIVILEGED COMMUNICATION
DO NOT FORWARD WITHOUT PERMISSION On Jul 16, 2012, at 5:49 PM,
"_cjpilot710@aol.com_ (mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com) " <_cjpilot710@aol.com_
(mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com) > wrote:
Troops,
Here is the first iteration of our proposed odyssey to OSH.
Chevy, me and possibly Smiley : Airborne sunup 21 July. WXP
FD44 to OPN = 251nm
OPN to 0A3 = 197nm
0A3 to C16 = 273nm
C16 to OSH = 230nm
Perhaps Goatboy could sortie his way to OPN and Snookum could find us at
0A3.
What say ye?
Pappy
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh bound |
PITA,
Should get into OSH mid afternoon (WXP) on 21 with a 5 or maybe 6 ship.
Pappy
In a message dated 7/18/2012 3:55:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
cpayne@joimail.com writes:
--> Yak-List message posted by: Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
Headed to AirVenture tomorrow with my mobile "shop" for those in need of
A&P services or just some good BS. "BS" best served with bratwurst and
Wisconsin beer.
Craig Payne
Message 19
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Okayyyy...never new that one.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 18, 2012, at 7:09 PM, cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
> Why that's B J Kennamore from MSL.!
>
> In a message dated 7/18/2012 2:31:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, viperdoc@
mindspring.com writes:
> Okay, who is snookum?
> Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jul 17, 2012, at 11:35 PM, cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
>
>> 0A3 does have patrol and that's where we'll be meeting up with "Lefty" be
cause its right next door to him.
>>
>> As for C16 I show a $6.41 price, but Frasca usually give us a discount fo
r stopping by.
>> TAZ is a little far west from a straight shot north. And way out of the w
ay for Lefty.
>>
>> HXF sound like a good stop to tank up ($5.15/g) before OSH.
>>
>> So looking at :
>>
>> Me Chevy & maybe Smily FD44 to OPN
>> Pickup Snookum, Lefty, & Goatboy at 0A3
>> 5or6 ship to C16.
>> 5or6 ship to HXF.
>> 5or6 ship to OSH.
>>
>> We'll plan on leaving FD44 right after sunup to OPN.
>> Takeoff + 2:00
>> OPN to 0A3 = 1:30
>> 0A3 to C16 = 2:06
>> C16 to HXF = 1:30
>> HXF to OSH = :20
>>
>> Goatboy maybe you can meet up with Snookum at MSL than to 0A3.
>>
>> How's that sound guys?
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 7/16/2012 10:13:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, djester
@gjtbs.com writes:
>> Better for me to meet you at 0A3...I note Smithville has no fuel. SYI ha
s fuel for 4.99 per gallon and is about 20 SW. Fuel at C16 is 6.74 a gallon
. There is fuel 60 SW for 5.00 per (TAZ). About 30 south of OSH gas is 5.1
4 while at OSH it's 5.47.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> <SilverAnniversaryLogo2small.jpg>
>>
>> Dave Jester, Director
>> GALLOWAY, JOHNSON, TOMPKINS, BURR & SMITH, A PLC
>> Phone: 850-436-7000 | Direct: 850-436-7010 | Cell: 850-291-4174 | Fax: 85
0-436-7099
>> 118 East Garden Street Pensacola, 32502
>> Email: djester@gjtbs.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Website | Bio | vCard
>>
>> Houston =99 St. Louis =99 Lafayette =99 Mandeville =99
New Orleans =99 Gulfport =99 Mobile =99 Pensacola =99
Tampa =99 Atlanta
>>
>> CONFIDENTIAL ATTORNEY-CLIENT OR OTHERWISE PRIVILEGED COMMUNICATION
>> DO NOT FORWARD WITHOUT PERMISSION
>>
>> On Jul 16, 2012, at 5:49 PM, "cjpilot710@aol.com" <cjpilot710@aol.com> wr
ote:
>>
>>> Troops,
>>>
>>> Here is the first iteration of our proposed odyssey to OSH.
>>>
>>>
>>> Chevy, me and possibly Smiley : Airborne sunup 21 July. WXP
>>>
>>> FD44 to OPN = 251nm
>>> OPN to 0A3 = 197nm
>>> 0A3 to C16 = 273nm
>>> C16 to OSH = 230nm
>>>
>>> Perhaps Goatboy could sortie his way to OPN and Snookum could find us at
0A3.
>>> What say ye?
>>>
>>> Pappy
>
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