Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:56 AM - Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Etienne Verhellen)
2. 05:26 AM - Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Egon)
3. 07:29 AM - Re: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Sam Sax)
4. 08:24 AM - Re: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
5. 08:45 AM - Re: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
6. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Richard Goode)
7. 10:32 AM - Re: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Jan Mevis)
8. 01:26 PM - Re: OSH trip (BKENNAMORE@aol.com)
9. 02:00 PM - Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Dale)
10. 04:02 PM - Re: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (kevin kimball)
11. 07:00 PM - Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Sam Sax)
12. 07:35 PM - Re: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Roger Kemp M.D.)
13. 07:49 PM - Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Dale)
14. 08:03 PM - Re: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
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| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop |
Morning Mark !
> Are you recommending that the V530 be flown in engines
> that produce more than 400 HP?
NO Mark, I NEVER said that. I have no idea where you got that from. ??
I simply said that the standard V530 is good enough for most Yaks.
The Hoffmann prop is nice.
The MT prop is nice.
As Richard mentioned earlier, the WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
is not an option in Europe because it is not Certified. And (unfortunately)
I have nothing to do with that or any varying European CAA requirements" for Yaks
...
Best Wishes,
Etienne.
--------
http://www.flyforfun.be/?q=yaks
http://www.planecheck.com/eu/index.asp?ent=dv&id=6711
http://www.airshowactionphotography.com/san07/page1.html
http://www.irishairpics.com/photo/1029467/L/Yakovlev-Yak-52/G-CBSS/Etienne-Verhellen/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378737#378737
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| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop |
Hiya Guys.
I certainly appreciate all the good info re the two props. Sam, just a quick question.
Have you done a comparison on cruise speed of the two props on similarly
powered CJ's? For example, power setting differences to stay in formation.
Many thanks.
Egon.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378743#378743
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| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing |
a prop
Hi Egon,
Doing a true comparison test requires more than similar power setting
between the two ships. I am not an engineer but to me it seems that a
better comparison would be testing both props on the same aircraft and
compare the performance results.
Having said that, the only experience flying and comparing performance to an
MT was with my first Whirlwind prop (which is still a great performer). The
other CJ had the Fucke-Wulf type MT propeller (I don't know the model number
of it). We both had full fuel and two parachutes. I had a back-seater on
mine and he flew solo. Miami is pretty much at sea level (actually 8 feet
above sea level).
At full power max climb I was pulling away from him at a pretty good rate -
now, what is a 'pretty good rate' - I don't know. Al I can tell you is that
I out-climb him.
We also flew cruise and compared full power in straight and level flight
that day - here again I pulled away. Again, this is not scientific. It's
what I witness from my cockpit...
FWIW,
Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Egon
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 8:24 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a
prop
Hiya Guys.
I certainly appreciate all the good info re the two props. Sam, just a
quick question. Have you done a comparison on cruise speed of the two props
on similarly powered CJ's? For example, power setting differences to stay in
formation. Many thanks.
Egon.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378743#378743
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| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing |
a prop
Thanks, nice to know.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Etienne
Verhellen
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 3:54 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when
choosing a prop
Morning Mark !
> Are you recommending that the V530 be flown in engines
> that produce more than 400 HP?
NO Mark, I NEVER said that. I have no idea where you got that from. ??
I simply said that the standard V530 is good enough for most Yaks.
The Hoffmann prop is nice.
The MT prop is nice.
As Richard mentioned earlier, the WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
is not an option in Europe because it is not Certified. And
(unfortunately)
I have nothing to do with that or any varying European CAA requirements"
for Yaks ...
Best Wishes,
Etienne.
--------
http://www.flyforfun.be/?q=yaks
http://www.planecheck.com/eu/index.asp?ent=dv&id=6711
http://www.airshowactionphotography.com/san07/page1.html
http://www.irishairpics.com/photo/1029467/L/Yakovlev-Yak-52/G-CBSS/Etien
ne-Verhellen/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378737#378737
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| Subject: | Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade |
Propeller
Thanks for writing this Sam.
Mark
p.s. You make some very strong points, and .... I think you did a pretty darn
good job in your video.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 7:55 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
Mark,
I tried responding to your message and apparently it didn't go through - I'll try
again :)
Btw, Sorry for the typo on Whirlwind's phone number - my fat fingers on the not-so-smart
phone keypad, you know...
Excellent news regarding Whirlwind service interval extension to 400 hours/5 years!
I went back and looked at the logbook of my first three bladed prop from Whirlwind
and logbook says I flew it for a total time of 725 hours - during that time
I had it serviced only once. The service process was simply taking it to a
local Miami Prop shop who disassembled it and sent the blades to Whirlwind for
inspection and re-paint (per my request). Two weeks later, during which the
prop shop serviced my hub, they reinstalled and statically balanced the blades
and I flew the following day - simple and easy (for me).
My story with the new propeller and the Youtube Video is a little different - I
already had a spare McCauley hub that I acquired on-line a couple of years ago
so this was only a re-blading with servicing the hub job. I told Jeremy at
the time, that I intend to do a video review and will tell it like it is to the
folks who may be interested in what I have to say about it. I have been a member
of the Yak-List since day one, and a member of "The Yak Club" (for those
of us who remember :) ) which preceded our RPA... and was not going to tell
our member anything that I havent experienced myself. As I mentioned before,
I flew behind the Whirlwind 'first generation' hub and propeller for years with
zero issues so my trust in their product and their high level of service is
based on actual operational experience and ownership over a long time. As you
may know, they have been producing 2 and 3 blades propellers for a long time
with very good reputation for the Homebuilt segm!
ent of the aviation market. Having said all that, I did not have experience
with their new blades for the M-14P and wasn't 100% sure the new blades would
be as good or better which is the reason I told Jeremy of my intention in doing
the video review.
It was very helpful to have a very talented and close flying friend who is a professional business video producer (VTM Productions) who did all the aerial and ground video as well as the setup work - I'm sure you'd agree that is nothing else, it looks professionally done. I had no idea so much goes into producing a good video clip! It was a lot of fun doing it. I may look a little 'stiff' on the video but unfortunately, I have no Hollywood experience.. LOL. This prop really does make me grin when I fly acro or formation which is why I sound a 'bit' excited about it in the video... If you haven't seen the video yet, simply go to youtube.com and search for "Whirlwind Aviation Propeller" or use this link to go there directly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sFFD_XNpa4 .
As far as I'm concerned, the Whirlwind propeller for the M-14P is the best available
and best value today - best value in price, service, reliability and performance
- again, this is only my opinion.
Besides, with all due respect for our international members, This propeller is
made in America - and I much prefer supporting an American company and help keeping
the jobs here at home - I am sure you feel the same way. So as long as
Whirlwind continues to manufacture a superb product, they will get my business
:)
Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:11 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
Good answer!
Thanks for writing it Warren!
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Warren Hill
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
Mark,
I was one of the first users of the WhirlWind 2-blade composite prop for the M-14P
back in 2010. Paid full price and have been very happy.
The only down side of being an early (first) adaptor was determining the optimum
blade angle. The original setting only gave me 82% power on takeoff. Through
a little trial and error ended up at 17.5 degrees and it has been a delight ever
since. Can't say enough good things about this one.
Warren
On Jul 17, 2012, at 12:15 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
64E wrote:
>
> I made the call, (440-275-1540) and talked to Jeremy.
>
> Some points to consider (at least for me) : THIS IS AN EXPERIMENTAL PROPELLOR
>
> 1. As such all inspections listed are "recommended" and not mandatory. Whirlwind
will send out a "Service Letter" if an inspection moves into the high priority
category. In my mind there are pro's and con's here. Lots and LOTS of
good things are involved with certified props such as MT models. But an Experimental
Prop is the same as an Experimental Airplane as far as the FAA is concerned,
which can be a good thing in certain situations in certain "Regions" of
the U.S. Just saying.
>
> 2. As of TODAY, the recommended tear down period has been extended to 400 hours/5
years. Either or. Again, this is a RECOMMENDED tear down period, since
it is an Experimental Prop, this recommendation does not carry the same weight
as it does with a Certified Prop. I.E. You are not required to comply with
it, but you're not too bright if you do not.
>
> Price is about the same as the certified MT props.
>
> I did not question or discuss blade repair issues or vibration dampening.
>
> Jeremy pointed out some YouTube videos of a Pitts S12 and other aircraft running
this prop. Very impressive.
>
> I do have a general question for the folks flying the Whirlwind props on M-14
engines. How did you folks decide to take the leap and go with this prop as
compared to say the MT series? Did you pay full price for these props, or did
you receive a discount for acting as a test bed?
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:37 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
>
> Hi Mark,
> Your questions are very legitimate and I think would be best answered by contacting
Whirlwind Aviation directly at 440.275.1530. When contacting Whirlwind,
ask for the General Manager, Jeremy.
>
> As to the governor for the stock M14P engine, the standard Governor is used.
>
> Sam
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
> From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> CC:
>
>
>
>
> Sam,
>
> Understood on how the type of flying impacts the reliability of propellers.
>
> What I am honestly interested in is the written information that relates to the
tear down inspection intervals recommended by the manufacturer officially and
in writing for either the blades, and/or the hub, both of which I refer to
as "the propeller".
>
> You also said: "If you fly hard airshow or competition aerobatics, the 250 hours
/ 1 year would definitely make sense."
>
> What defines "hard" air show aerobatics? Are we talking gyroscopic maneuvers?
Are we talking snap rolls? Just what exactly? Competition Aerobatics spans
the realm from Sportsman, to Unlimited with a wide margin in the middle.
>
> Whirlwind obviously must have a set policy where some inspections might be "required"
and some might be "recommended".
>
> What I am looking at here is a pretty hefty price tag if you purchase the blades,
required hub, and ..... does it also require a different prop governor?
>
> In any case, before I plop down 15-18 K$ on a new prop assy., I'd like to read
the fine print. Not trying to put anyone on the spot here, I just think the
original question is apt, and I am still not quite sure of the answer.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 6:06 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
>
> Mark,
> I'm on the road on business and will look at my propeller data sheet when back
in miami. If I recall correctly Whirlwind indicated that the limiting element
is not the blade but the hub - I believe this would be the case with the other
manufacturers also. If you fly hard airshow or competition aerobatics, the
250 hours / 1 year would definitly make sense.
> I see your point but with the type of flying I do, formation and moderate aerobatics,
I'm not real concern about the reliability of the hub.
> The nearly 1000 hours I have on their hub on my older prop (same) gives me good
confidence that it 'll work tomorrow too... :)
> Sam
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
> From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> CC:
>
>
>
>
> Sam, I am curious.
>
> When I go to their web page:
>
> http://www.whirlwindaviation.com/props/400cmseries.asp
>
> Under "Specifications" I see this:
>
> "Tear Down Inspection: 250 hours or 1 years"
>
> In the owner's manual I find this statement:
>
> "7.1 Teardown Inspection Schedule
> Refer to the original propeller data sheet for recommended
> teardown inspection schedule. If the original data sheet
> cannot be found, please contact Whirl Wind Aviation directly
> to confirm the recommended schedule for your propeller."
>
> So, it appears rather vague to me just what the tear-down schedule is when approached
by a new potential buyer such as myself.
>
> Do you have a copy of the "original propeller data sheet" that actually gives
the recommended teardown inspection schedule? Recommendations by owners are
of course welcomed at all times, but all props have some kind of official life
history inspection schedule. Of course, anyone can contact Whirlwind directly
for a verbal answer, but I sure would like to see something in writing.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 11:40 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
>
>
> Hi econ,
> The prop flies even better than it looks...!
> No, it is not necessary or required to remove once a year and this is nowhere
in the operations manual that came with prop. If you fly continuiously heavy
acrobatics they recommend inspection every 250 hours. I fly moderate acro and
don't expect inspection before 500 hours.
> I suggest you call whirlwind directly and speak with Jeremy ans say hello from
me :)
> Feel free to call me if you need more info. Ill be glad to help.
> Sam Sax
> 305.215.5599 cell
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone.
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Flight Review Video - WhirlWind Aviation 3-Blade Propeller
> From: Egon <egonmahr@westnet.com.au>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> CC:
>
>
>
>
> Hi Sam.
> The prop looks fantastic. Is it true that it has to be removed and inspected
once a year? I am weighing up between the Whirlwind and the MT, and the requirement
to pull the prop and send it to a Prop Shop every year irrespective of hours
flown seems a little onerous. What do you think?
> Cheers Egon.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378371#378371
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~,g(MGqz{nrf
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~,gky
> x ojja{nrf
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~,g(MGqzky
> x o{{nrf
>
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>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing |
a prop
In fairness to MT, that F-W 190 style prop is purely for show. It is not
suitable for anything but the most gentle of aerobatics, and gives far less
performance than the standard MTV-9 with the - 29 blades.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
I'm currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 7:56 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when
choosing a prop
Hi Egon,
Doing a true comparison test requires more than similar power setting
between the two ships. I am not an engineer but to me it seems that a
better comparison would be testing both props on the same aircraft and
compare the performance results.
Having said that, the only experience flying and comparing performance to an
MT was with my first Whirlwind prop (which is still a great performer). The
other CJ had the Fucke-Wulf type MT propeller (I don't know the model number
of it). We both had full fuel and two parachutes. I had a back-seater on
mine and he flew solo. Miami is pretty much at sea level (actually 8 feet
above sea level).
At full power max climb I was pulling away from him at a pretty good rate -
now, what is a 'pretty good rate' - I don't know. Al I can tell you is that
I out-climb him.
We also flew cruise and compared full power in straight and level flight
that day - here again I pulled away. Again, this is not scientific. It's
what I witness from my cockpit...
FWIW,
Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Egon
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 8:24 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a
prop
Hiya Guys.
I certainly appreciate all the good info re the two props. Sam, just a
quick question. Have you done a comparison on cruise speed of the two props
on similarly powered CJ's? For example, power setting differences to stay in
formation. Many thanks.
Egon.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378743#378743
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| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing |
a prop
Thanks Richard! I always wondered how it performs. Beautiful prop though.
Do they continue develoment on this F-W 190 prop, at Mullbauer's ?
Jan
On 19/07/12 18:41, "Richard Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
><richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
>
>In fairness to MT, that F-W 190 style prop is purely for show. It is not
>suitable for anything but the most gentle of aerobatics, and gives far
>less
>performance than the standard MTV-9 with the - 29 blades.
>
>Richard Goode
>
>Rhodds Farm
>Lyonshall
>Hereford
>HR5 3LW
>United Kingdom
> Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
>Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
>Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
>www.russianaeros.com
>I'm currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
>+94 779 132 160.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
>Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 7:56 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when
>choosing a prop
>
>
>Hi Egon,
>
>Doing a true comparison test requires more than similar power setting
>between the two ships. I am not an engineer but to me it seems that a
>better comparison would be testing both props on the same aircraft and
>compare the performance results.
>Having said that, the only experience flying and comparing performance to
>an
>MT was with my first Whirlwind prop (which is still a great performer).
>The
>other CJ had the Fucke-Wulf type MT propeller (I don't know the model
>number
>of it). We both had full fuel and two parachutes. I had a back-seater on
>mine and he flew solo. Miami is pretty much at sea level (actually 8
>feet
>above sea level).
>At full power max climb I was pulling away from him at a pretty good rate
>-
>now, what is a 'pretty good rate' - I don't know. Al I can tell you is
>that
>I out-climb him.
>
>We also flew cruise and compared full power in straight and level flight
>that day - here again I pulled away. Again, this is not scientific. It's
>what I witness from my cockpit...
>
>FWIW,
>
>Sam
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Egon
>Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 8:24 AM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Yak-List: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when
>choosing a
>prop
>
>
>Hiya Guys.
> I certainly appreciate all the good info re the two props. Sam, just a
>quick question. Have you done a comparison on cruise speed of the two
>props
>on similarly powered CJ's? For example, power setting differences to stay
>in
>formation. Many thanks.
>Egon.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378743#378743
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------
>This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the
>Invictawiz MailScanner and is believed to be clean.
>http://www.invictawiz.com
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>
>
Message 8
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BJ is ok with SYI will be there @ 10:00 CENTRAL
In a message dated 7/18/2012 8:29:23 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
djester@gjtbs.com writes:
Cool...meet you at Syi.
Sincerely,
Dave Jester, Director
GALLOWAY, JOHNSON, TOMPKINS, BURR & SMITH, A PLC
Phone: 850-436-7000 | Direct: 850-436-7010 | Cell: 850-291-4174 | Fax:
850-436-7099
118 East Garden Street Pensacola, 32502
Email: _djester@gjtbs.com_ (mailto:djester@gjtbs.com)
_Website_ (http://www.gjtbs.com/) | _Bio_
(http://www.gjtbs.com/ftpuser/attorney.php?slugline=jester) | _vCard_
(http://gjtbs.com/~gjtbspl/ftpuser/upload/W.%20David%20Jester.vcf)
Houston =99 St. Louis =99 Lafayette =99 Mandeville
=99 New Orleans =99 Gulfport =99
Mobile =99 Pensacola =99 Tampa =99 Atlanta
CONFIDENTIAL ATTORNEY-CLIENT OR OTHERWISE PRIVILEGED COMMUNICATION
DO NOT FORWARD WITHOUT PERMISSION On Jul 18, 2012, at 7:58 PM,
"_cjpilot710@aol.com_ (mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com) " <_cjpilot710@aol.com_
(mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com) > wrote:
OK. So lets try :
FD44 to OPN = 2:00
OPN to SYI =1:30 (join up)
SYI to 1C1 = 2:20
1C1 to HXF = 1:20
ETA SYI about 1100 EST for the Florida bunch.
That sounds good to me.
Every one?
Pappy
In a message dated 7/18/2012 9:19:41 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_randmyak52@bellsouth.net_ (mailto:randmyak52@bellsouth.net) writes:
Pappy, after talking to BJ this morning I suggest that we meet at SYI,
100LL 4.99. the operator there has busted ass to keep fuel below 5.00. Hav
ing
several A/C top off there going and coming will help him continue this.
This would work well for BJ and the two pilots he will have with him. Knoc
king
some thirty miles off their 1st leg. I will just back track to there as
the 4.99 number will compensate for the extra distance. Also would like to
consider making 1C1 our next stop as they have Mo gas and the 100LL is 6.1
1,
19 NM N. of Frasca. Agree that the stop @ KHXF is wise as that will provid
e
fuel for the operations @ OSH @ a savings of some .50 per Gal. I plan to
call the manager @ 1C1 and ask for some slack for having several A/C top
off. Will do what ever you decide.
Lefty
----- Original Message -----
From: _cjpilot710@aol.com_ (mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com)
(mailto:BKENNAMORE@aol.com)
Cc: _jford512001@yahoo.com_ (mailto:jford512001@yahoo.com) ;
_rlanger2@comcast.net_ (mailto:rlanger2@comcast.net) ; _randmyak52@bellsou
th.net_
(mailto:randmyak52@bellsouth.net) ; _yak-list@matronics.com_
(mailto:yak-list@matronics.com)
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: OSH trip
0A3 does have patrol and that's where we'll be meeting up with "Lefty"
because its right next door to him.
As for C16 I show a $6.41 price, but Frasca usually give us a discount for
stopping by.
TAZ is a little far west from a straight shot north. And way out of the
way for Lefty.
HXF sound like a good stop to tank up ($5.15/g) before OSH.
So looking at :
Me Chevy & maybe Smily FD44 to OPN
Pickup Snookum, Lefty, & Goatboy at 0A3
5or6 ship to C16.
5or6 ship to HXF.
5or6 ship to OSH.
We'll plan on leaving FD44 right after sunup to OPN.
Takeoff + 2:00
OPN to 0A3 = 1:30
0A3 to C16 = 2:06
C16 to HXF = 1:30
HXF to OSH = :20
Goatboy maybe you can meet up with Snookum at MSL than to 0A3.
How's that sound guys?
In a message dated 7/16/2012 10:13:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_djester@gjtbs.com_ (mailto:djester@gjtbs.com) writes:
Better for me to meet you at 0A3...I note Smithville has no fuel. SYI has
fuel for 4.99 per gallon and is about 20 SW. Fuel at C16 is 6.74 a gallon
.
There is fuel 60 SW for 5.00 per (TAZ). About 30 south of OSH gas is 5.14
while at OSH it's 5.47.
Sent from my iPad
Sincerely,
<OSHtrip.jpg>
Dave Jester, Director
GALLOWAY, JOHNSON, TOMPKINS, BURR & SMITH, A PLC
Phone: 850-436-7000 | Direct: 850-436-7010 | Cell: 850-291-4174 | Fax:
850-436-7099
118 East Garden Street Pensacola, 32502
Email: _djester@gjtbs.com_ (mailto:djester@gjtbs.com)
_Website_ (http://www.gjtbs.com/) | _Bio_
(http://www.gjtbs.com/ftpuser/attorney.php?slugline=jester) | _vCard_
(http://gjtbs.com/~gjtbspl/ftpuser/upload/W.%20David%20Jester.vcf)
Houston =99 St. Louis =99 Lafayette =99 Mandeville
=99 New Orleans =99 Gulfport =99
Mobile =99 Pensacola =99 Tampa =99 Atlanta
CONFIDENTIAL ATTORNEY-CLIENT OR OTHERWISE PRIVILEGED COMMUNICATION
DO NOT FORWARD WITHOUT PERMISSION On Jul 16, 2012, at 5:49 PM,
"_cjpilot710@aol.com_ (mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com) " <_cjpilot710@aol.com_
(mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com) > wrote:
Troops,
Here is the first iteration of our proposed odyssey to OSH.
Chevy, me and possibly Smiley : Airborne sunup 21 July. WXP
FD44 to OPN = 251nm
OPN to 0A3 = 197nm
0A3 to C16 = 273nm
C16 to OSH = 230nm
Perhaps Goatboy could sortie his way to OPN and Snookum could find us at
0A3.
What say ye?
Pappy
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop |
The FW-190 blade was made for just that a scaled 190 built in limited production
kit/experimental. MT also makes a scimitar blade as well. The Radial Rocket
uses the scimitar shaped blade. You can get the Straight, 190, or scimitar
blade for the MT. I asked for a paddle blade and they said no even though
they build one for a scaled 51190 in a four blade. The standard - 29 can be built
to a number of diameters. Your choice
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378768#378768
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing |
a prop
The scimitar MT blades were first created for the McCullocoupe, an M14PF powered
design I created and we built here. It will be at Oshkosh at the IAC area this
year along with a Model 12 with a 420hp BPE M14P, injected and electronic
ignition. That is the plan anyway.
Sincerely,
Kevin Kimball, Vice President
Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc.
PO Box 849
5354 Cemetery Road
Zellwood, FL 32798-0849
407.889.3451 phone
407.889.7168 fax
www.saettaboats.com
www.pittsmodel12.com
www.jimkimballenterprises.com
Email: Kevin@jimkimballenterprises.com
On Jul 19, 2012, at 4:58 PM, Dale wrote:
>
> The FW-190 blade was made for just that a scaled 190 built in limited production
kit/experimental. MT also makes a scimitar blade as well. The Radial
Rocket uses the scimitar shaped blade. You can get the Straight, 190, or scimitar
blade for the MT. I asked for a paddle blade and they said no even though
they build one for a scaled 51190 in a four blade. The standard - 29 can be
built to a number of diameters. Your choice
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378768#378768
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop |
Richard,
I was not aware that this was designed purely or mainly for show... I can
tell you with high degree of confidence that the guy I was referring to in
my previous e-mail who had this MT "Fucke-Wulf" prop was not aware of this
limited performance either. He operates his CJ out of a high elevation
airport and was looking for a strong performing prop for that purpose. He
liked the shape of the blades and I guess he assumed it will perform.
Frankly, he was very upset with the results of that flight and suspected
that his engine was the problem. I believe there are more of this MT model
prop flying in the US -an I can't help but wonder if they were they told
about the limited performance by MT? MT is a reputable company so the
owners may indeed have been told and opted to buy it anyway - nothing wrong
with that.
As they say, this is "neither here nor there"... Some like the MT props,
others like the Whirlwind props - similar to the expression: some like
brunettes and some like blondes... :)
As far as I am concerned I like brunettes and the Whirlwind prop... notice
the plural and singular use of the words - if my wife ever finds out, I am
in deep trouble... LOL
Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 12:42 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when
choosing a prop
--> <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
In fairness to MT, that F-W 190 style prop is purely for show. It is not
suitable for anything but the most gentle of aerobatics, and gives far less
performance than the standard MTV-9 with the - 29 blades.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
I'm currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 7:56 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when
choosing a prop
Hi Egon,
Doing a true comparison test requires more than similar power setting
between the two ships. I am not an engineer but to me it seems that a
better comparison would be testing both props on the same aircraft and
compare the performance results.
Having said that, the only experience flying and comparing performance to an
MT was with my first Whirlwind prop (which is still a great performer). The
other CJ had the Fucke-Wulf type MT propeller (I don't know the model number
of it). We both had full fuel and two parachutes. I had a back-seater on
mine and he flew solo. Miami is pretty much at sea level (actually 8 feet
above sea level).
At full power max climb I was pulling away from him at a pretty good rate -
now, what is a 'pretty good rate' - I don't know. Al I can tell you is that
I out-climb him.
We also flew cruise and compared full power in straight and level flight
that day - here again I pulled away. Again, this is not scientific. It's
what I witness from my cockpit...
FWIW,
Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Egon
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 8:24 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a
prop
Hiya Guys.
I certainly appreciate all the good info re the two props. Sam, just a
quick question. Have you done a comparison on cruise speed of the two props
on similarly powered CJ's? For example, power setting differences to stay in
formation. Many thanks.
Egon.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378743#378743
-----------------------------------------------
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing |
a prop
Sam,
My wife approved the two steel mistresses. No others though. I believe Tom Johnson
has a FW-190 MT prop on his 5o.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 19, 2012, at 8:58 PM, "Sam Sax" <cd001633@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> Richard,
>
> I was not aware that this was designed purely or mainly for show... I can
> tell you with high degree of confidence that the guy I was referring to in
> my previous e-mail who had this MT "Fucke-Wulf" prop was not aware of this
> limited performance either. He operates his CJ out of a high elevation
> airport and was looking for a strong performing prop for that purpose. He
> liked the shape of the blades and I guess he assumed it will perform.
> Frankly, he was very upset with the results of that flight and suspected
> that his engine was the problem. I believe there are more of this MT model
> prop flying in the US -an I can't help but wonder if they were they told
> about the limited performance by MT? MT is a reputable company so the
> owners may indeed have been told and opted to buy it anyway - nothing wrong
> with that.
>
> As they say, this is "neither here nor there"... Some like the MT props,
> others like the Whirlwind props - similar to the expression: some like
> brunettes and some like blondes... :)
>
> As far as I am concerned I like brunettes and the Whirlwind prop... notice
> the plural and singular use of the words - if my wife ever finds out, I am
> in deep trouble... LOL
>
> Sam
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 12:42 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when
> choosing a prop
>
> --> <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
>
> In fairness to MT, that F-W 190 style prop is purely for show. It is not
> suitable for anything but the most gentle of aerobatics, and gives far less
> performance than the standard MTV-9 with the - 29 blades.
>
> Richard Goode
>
> Rhodds Farm
> Lyonshall
> Hereford
> HR5 3LW
> United Kingdom
> Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
> www.russianaeros.com
> I'm currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
> +94 779 132 160.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 7:56 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when
> choosing a prop
>
>
> Hi Egon,
>
> Doing a true comparison test requires more than similar power setting
> between the two ships. I am not an engineer but to me it seems that a
> better comparison would be testing both props on the same aircraft and
> compare the performance results.
> Having said that, the only experience flying and comparing performance to an
> MT was with my first Whirlwind prop (which is still a great performer). The
> other CJ had the Fucke-Wulf type MT propeller (I don't know the model number
> of it). We both had full fuel and two parachutes. I had a back-seater on
> mine and he flew solo. Miami is pretty much at sea level (actually 8 feet
> above sea level).
> At full power max climb I was pulling away from him at a pretty good rate -
> now, what is a 'pretty good rate' - I don't know. Al I can tell you is that
> I out-climb him.
>
> We also flew cruise and compared full power in straight and level flight
> that day - here again I pulled away. Again, this is not scientific. It's
> what I witness from my cockpit...
>
> FWIW,
>
> Sam
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Egon
> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 8:24 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a
> prop
>
>
> Hiya Guys.
> I certainly appreciate all the good info re the two props. Sam, just a
> quick question. Have you done a comparison on cruise speed of the two props
> on similarly powered CJ's? For example, power setting differences to stay in
> formation. Many thanks.
> Egon.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378743#378743
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the
> Invictawiz MailScanner and is believed to be clean.
> http://www.invictawiz.com
> -----------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop |
Maybe your friend with the 190 prop blades can send it back to Germany and have
them rebuild it into a -29 for the same price as a blade overhaul? Just thinking.
Might at least have one advantage to being a MT if it could work. If that
doesn't work have your friend get your prop. He can afford it. If it's who
I think it is.
Dale
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378780#378780
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing |
a prop
Sam,
I talked to MT about the FW blades versus the MTV9-260 (newer) blades, and they
warned me that the FW blades would not perform as well. They did not give a
ton of details, but did clearly point out they would not have the same vertical
penetration or overall thrust. They said if performance was my primary goal,
to not go with the FW blades.
Tom Johnson does have the FW blades and indicated to me that he liked them.
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Sam Sax
Sent: Thu 7/19/2012 9:58 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a prop
Richard,
I was not aware that this was designed purely or mainly for show... I can
tell you with high degree of confidence that the guy I was referring to in
my previous e-mail who had this MT "Fucke-Wulf" prop was not aware of this
limited performance either. He operates his CJ out of a high elevation
airport and was looking for a strong performing prop for that purpose. He
liked the shape of the blades and I guess he assumed it will perform.
Frankly, he was very upset with the results of that flight and suspected
that his engine was the problem. I believe there are more of this MT model
prop flying in the US -an I can't help but wonder if they were they told
about the limited performance by MT? MT is a reputable company so the
owners may indeed have been told and opted to buy it anyway - nothing wrong
with that.
As they say, this is "neither here nor there"... Some like the MT props,
others like the Whirlwind props - similar to the expression: some like
brunettes and some like blondes... :)
As far as I am concerned I like brunettes and the Whirlwind prop... notice
the plural and singular use of the words - if my wife ever finds out, I am
in deep trouble... LOL
Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 12:42 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when
choosing a prop
--> <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
In fairness to MT, that F-W 190 style prop is purely for show. It is not
suitable for anything but the most gentle of aerobatics, and gives far less
performance than the standard MTV-9 with the - 29 blades.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
I'm currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 7:56 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when
choosing a prop
Hi Egon,
Doing a true comparison test requires more than similar power setting
between the two ships. I am not an engineer but to me it seems that a
better comparison would be testing both props on the same aircraft and
compare the performance results.
Having said that, the only experience flying and comparing performance to an
MT was with my first Whirlwind prop (which is still a great performer). The
other CJ had the Fucke-Wulf type MT propeller (I don't know the model number
of it). We both had full fuel and two parachutes. I had a back-seater on
mine and he flew solo. Miami is pretty much at sea level (actually 8 feet
above sea level).
At full power max climb I was pulling away from him at a pretty good rate -
now, what is a 'pretty good rate' - I don't know. Al I can tell you is that
I out-climb him.
We also flew cruise and compared full power in straight and level flight
that day - here again I pulled away. Again, this is not scientific. It's
what I witness from my cockpit...
FWIW,
Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Egon
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 8:24 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: MT 3 Blade Propeller Food For Thought when choosing a
prop
Hiya Guys.
I certainly appreciate all the good info re the two props. Sam, just a
quick question. Have you done a comparison on cruise speed of the two props
on similarly powered CJ's? For example, power setting differences to stay in
formation. Many thanks.
Egon.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378743#378743
-----------------------------------------------
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