---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/08/12: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:54 AM - Re: Oshkosh and MTW (\) 2. 09:06 AM - Re: Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed (Walter Lannon) 3. 09:42 AM - Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed (N642K) 4. 10:03 AM - Re: Oshkosh and MTW (Brian Lloyd) 5. 10:03 AM - Re: Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed (A. Dennis Savarese) 6. 12:16 PM - Re: Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed (Mark Davis) 7. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed (Brian Lloyd) 8. 02:51 PM - Re: Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed (Roger Kemp) 9. 08:21 PM - Re: Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed (Walter Lannon) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:15 AM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oshkosh and MTW From: "\"" Geees the way I remember it he was your wingman when I shot him down. we changed his call sign from "Dbear" to "Dead Bear". One more turn I migh t have gotten you too. Pappy -----Original Message----- From: Brian Lloyd Sent: Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:33 pm Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oshkosh and MTW On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 6:47 PM, " wrote: Dead Bear, Pappy, is that supposed to be a hint? -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 brian@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) -= - The Yak-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:06:44 AM PST US From: "Walter Lannon" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed Hi Dennis; I probably am wrong but I seem to recall from the manual that the operating T.O. RPM limit for the M14P was 2901 and the overspeed limit was 2950. It appears that "N642K" may still not understand that the tachometer has nothing to do with the propellor. Cheers; Walt -----Original Message----- From: A. Dennis Savarese Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 12:54 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed The V530 limits are your engine RPM limits, which according to the manual is 2950 RPM. I prefer to use 2900 though. A. Dennis Savarese 334-285-6263 334-546-8182 (mobile) www.yak-52.com Skype - Yakguy1 On 8/7/2012 2:42 PM, N642K wrote: > > Thanks Dennis. Once again you come thru with the answer. I guess I need > to look up the limits of the V530 and double check what is already > programmed on my Horizon tach. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=380323#380323 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:42:45 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed From: "N642K" Thanks Walt but I get it Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=380410#380410 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:03:00 AM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oshkosh and MTW From: Brian Lloyd On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:51 AM, " wrote: > Geees the way I remember it he was your wingman when I shot him down. > When was that? The only one I ever played "tactical" with was Barry. > we changed his call sign from "Dbear" to "Dead Bear". One more turn I > might have gotten you too. > Must have been someone else. -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 brian@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:03:45 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed Hi Walt, From the M14P maintenance manual, here are the specs pertinent to this conversation. Take-off rating is 2900 RPM +-1 (99%). "Given in brackets are nominal values of the crankshaft speed of rotation in percent against the unified tachometer (99.4 % corresponds to 2900 r/min of the crankshaft)". I have no idea where they come up with 99.4% corresponds to 2900 r/min. There are numerous misprints in the manual caused by translation. I'd stick with 99%=2900 period. 1.2. SPECIFICATIONS 1.2.1. Engine Designation................................................................................ M-14P Cooling system .......................................................................... Air-type Engine starting system .............................................................. Air-type Engine continuous operation time: At take-off rating .................................................. Up to 5 min At maximum permissible speed, of rotation .......... ................... Up to 1 min At other ratings .................................. ...................................... Not limited Iverted engine operation: Ratings ........................................... ..........................................Nominal Continuous operation time ......................... .............................. Up to 2 min Total time within service life ...................................................... Up to 18 % _/Maximum permissible speed of rotation ............... ................... 2950 (101 %) r/min/_ Acceleration (pickup) from 760 r/min (idle) to take-off rating on stationary airplane .............. ....................................... Up to 3 s Maximum permissible crankshaft speed drop when changing over to one-magneto operation at nominal rating II and cruise rating I (low-pitch airscrew) .. ...................... 85 r/min (3 %) Number and arrangement of cylinders ................. .................... 9, radial, single-row Cylinder numbering .................................. ................................ Counter clockwise if viewed from rear cover side, top cylinder is Ho. 1 Cylinder bore ............................................................................. 105 mm Piston stroke: Cylinder No. 4 .................................... ....................................... 130 mm Cylinders Nos 3 and 5 ............................................................... 130.15 mm Cylinders Nos 2 and 6 ............................. ................................. 130.23 mm Cylinders Nos 8 and 9 ............................. ................................. 130.39 mm Cylinders Nos 1 and 7 ............................. ................................. 131.25 mm Total displacement .................................. ................................. 10.161 1 Compression ratio ................................... ................................. 6.30.1 Direction of rotation of crankshaft and airscrew shaft ...............LH Engine dry mass ..................................... 214 kg+2% NOTE: Engine dry mass does not include mass of the generator, compressor, fine filter with pipelines, engine frame ring, exhaust manifold parts, tachometer generator. Dennis A. Dennis Savarese 334-285-6263 334-546-8182 (mobile) www.yak-52.com Skype - Yakguy1 On 8/8/2012 11:04 AM, Walter Lannon wrote: > > Hi Dennis; > > I probably am wrong but I seem to recall from the manual that the > operating T.O. RPM limit for the M14P was 2901 and the overspeed limit > was 2950. > It appears that "N642K" may still not understand that the tachometer > has nothing to do with the propellor. > > Cheers; > Walt > > -----Original Message----- From: A. Dennis Savarese > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 12:54 PM > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed > > > > The V530 limits are your engine RPM limits, which according to the > manual is 2950 RPM. I prefer to use 2900 though. > > A. Dennis Savarese > 334-285-6263 > 334-546-8182 (mobile) > www.yak-52.com > Skype - Yakguy1 > > On 8/7/2012 2:42 PM, N642K wrote: >> >> Thanks Dennis. Once again you come thru with the answer. I guess I >> need to look up the limits of the V530 and double check what is >> already programmed on my Horizon tach. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=380323#380323 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:16:17 PM PST US From: "Mark Davis" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed His confusion may be from the fact that he has an M-14B with an M-14P nose case and standard Russian paddle blade prop on it, so the engine for all practical purposes is the same as an M-14P regarding RPM limitations. Engine RPM is engine RPM regardless of the nose case gear ratio. Mark Davis N44YK (w/M-14P, but also a spare M-14B in hangar with an M-14P nose case on it.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Lannon" Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 10:04 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed > > Hi Dennis; > > I probably am wrong but I seem to recall from the manual that the > operating T.O. RPM limit for the M14P was 2901 and the overspeed limit was > 2950. > It appears that "N642K" may still not understand that the tachometer has > nothing to do with the propellor. > > Cheers; > Walt > > -----Original Message----- > From: A. Dennis Savarese > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 12:54 PM > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed > > > > The V530 limits are your engine RPM limits, which according to the > manual is 2950 RPM. I prefer to use 2900 though. > > A. Dennis Savarese > 334-285-6263 > 334-546-8182 (mobile) > www.yak-52.com > Skype - Yakguy1 > > On 8/7/2012 2:42 PM, N642K wrote: >> >> Thanks Dennis. Once again you come thru with the answer. I guess I need >> to look up the limits of the V530 and double check what is already >> programmed on my Horizon tach. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=380323#380323 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed From: Brian Lloyd On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Mark Davis wrote: > > His confusion may be from the fact that he has an M-14B with an M-14P nose > case and standard Russian paddle blade prop on it, so the engine for all > practical purposes is the same as an M-14P regarding RPM limitations. > Engine RPM is engine RPM regardless of the nose case gear ratio. > And any tach that uses the impulses on the p-leads is using crankshaft RPM (probably a better name than "engine RPM") and not prop or output shaft RPM. FWIW: p-lead pulses per crank rotation = number-of-cylinders/2 -- Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL 3191 Western Dr. Cameron Park, CA 95682 brian@lloyd.com +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica) +1.916.877.5067 (USA) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:51:10 PM PST US From: Roger Kemp Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed And...who's on first? To really confuse... a M-14 DHPF with an M-14 P nose case?!! Along with a few other minor but significant changes to allow for the prop governor accessory drive. Doc -----Original Message----- >From: Mark Davis >Sent: Aug 8, 2012 2:13 PM >To: yak-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed > > >His confusion may be from the fact that he has an M-14B with an M-14P nose >case and standard Russian paddle blade prop on it, so the engine for all >practical purposes is the same as an M-14P regarding RPM limitations. >Engine RPM is engine RPM regardless of the nose case gear ratio. > >Mark Davis >N44YK (w/M-14P, but also a spare M-14B in hangar with an M-14P nose case on >it.) > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Walter Lannon" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 10:04 AM >Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed > > >> >> Hi Dennis; >> >> I probably am wrong but I seem to recall from the manual that the >> operating T.O. RPM limit for the M14P was 2901 and the overspeed limit was >> 2950. >> It appears that "N642K" may still not understand that the tachometer has >> nothing to do with the propellor. >> >> Cheers; >> Walt >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: A. Dennis Savarese >> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 12:54 PM >> To: yak-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed >> >> >> >> The V530 limits are your engine RPM limits, which according to the >> manual is 2950 RPM. I prefer to use 2900 though. >> >> A. Dennis Savarese >> 334-285-6263 >> 334-546-8182 (mobile) >> www.yak-52.com >> Skype - Yakguy1 >> >> On 8/7/2012 2:42 PM, N642K wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Dennis. Once again you come thru with the answer. I guess I need >>> to look up the limits of the V530 and double check what is already >>> programmed on my Horizon tach. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=380323#380323 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:41 PM PST US From: "Walter Lannon" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed Hi Dennis; Thanks for the info. I agree, 2900 RPM (99%) period is a good number. I would not set up the governor for the max. allowable of 2950 but would regard that as an accidental overspeed limit. Walt -----Original Message----- From: A. Dennis Savarese Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 10:00 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed Hi Walt, >From the M14P maintenance manual, here are the specs pertinent to this conversation. Take-off rating is 2900 RPM +-1 (99%). "Given in brackets are nominal values of the crankshaft speed of rotation in percent against the unified tachometer (99.4 % corresponds to 2900 r/min of the crankshaft)". I have no idea where they come up with 99.4% corresponds to 2900 r/min. There are numerous misprints in the manual caused by translation. I'd stick with 99%=2900 period. 1.2. SPECIFICATIONS 1.2.1. Engine Designation................................................................................ M-14P Cooling system .......................................................................... Air-type Engine starting system .............................................................. Air-type Engine continuous operation time: At take-off rating .................................................. Up to 5 min At maximum permissible speed, of rotation .......... ................... Up to 1 min At other ratings .................................. ...................................... Not limited Iverted engine operation: Ratings ........................................... ..........................................Nominal Continuous operation time ......................... .............................. Up to 2 min Total time within service life ...................................................... Up to 18 % _/Maximum permissible speed of rotation ............... ................... 2950 (101 %) r/min/_ Acceleration (pickup) from 760 r/min (idle) to take-off rating on stationary airplane .............. ....................................... Up to 3 s Maximum permissible crankshaft speed drop when changing over to one-magneto operation at nominal rating II and cruise rating I (low-pitch airscrew) .. ...................... 85 r/min (3 %) Number and arrangement of cylinders ................. .................... 9, radial, single-row Cylinder numbering .................................. ................................ Counter clockwise if viewed from rear cover side, top cylinder is Ho. 1 Cylinder bore ............................................................................. 105 mm Piston stroke: Cylinder No. 4 .................................... ....................................... 130 mm Cylinders Nos 3 and 5 ............................................................... 130.15 mm Cylinders Nos 2 and 6 ............................. ................................. 130.23 mm Cylinders Nos 8 and 9 ............................. ................................. 130.39 mm Cylinders Nos 1 and 7 ............................. ................................. 131.25 mm Total displacement .................................. ................................. 10.161 1 Compression ratio ................................... ................................. 6.30.1 Direction of rotation of crankshaft and airscrew shaft ...............LH Engine dry mass ..................................... 214 kg+2% NOTE: Engine dry mass does not include mass of the generator, compressor, fine filter with pipelines, engine frame ring, exhaust manifold parts, tachometer generator. Dennis A. Dennis Savarese 334-285-6263 334-546-8182 (mobile) www.yak-52.com Skype - Yakguy1 On 8/8/2012 11:04 AM, Walter Lannon wrote: > > Hi Dennis; > > I probably am wrong but I seem to recall from the manual that the > operating T.O. RPM limit for the M14P was 2901 and the overspeed limit was > 2950. > It appears that "N642K" may still not understand that the tachometer has > nothing to do with the propellor. > > Cheers; > Walt > > -----Original Message----- From: A. Dennis Savarese > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 12:54 PM > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine RPM and propeller speed > > > > The V530 limits are your engine RPM limits, which according to the > manual is 2950 RPM. I prefer to use 2900 though. > > A. Dennis Savarese > 334-285-6263 > 334-546-8182 (mobile) > www.yak-52.com > Skype - Yakguy1 > > On 8/7/2012 2:42 PM, N642K wrote: >> >> Thanks Dennis. Once again you come thru with the answer. I guess I need >> to look up the limits of the V530 and double check what is already >> programmed on my Horizon tach. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=380323#380323 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.