Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:17 AM - Re: Interesting scenario (George Coy)
2. 11:46 AM - Re: Interesting scenario (Jan Mevis)
3. 12:12 PM - Re: Interesting scenario (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
4. 01:04 PM - Re: Interesting scenario (Rico Jaeger)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Interesting scenario |
I can also testify to running the Yak52 engine on the primer during a
fuel starvation problem. Early march about 7 years ago I was hired to
pick up a 52 just outside of Boston and bring it to our shop in Vermont.
The airplane had sat for about 3 years. After a through ramp inspection
I got it going. Ran it up for a good bit. Found the com radio and
transponder INOP. I elected to fly NORDO. It was at a towered field, so
I arranged with the tower for light gun signals to depart. My course
home put me right into ARSA, so I climed to clear it. Sure enough at
6500 ft right over Manchester NH airport the engine quit. No fuel
pressure. I used the primer (cylinder position) to keep the engine
going. Each stroke of the primer gave a burst of power. I headed toward
frozen lakes about 15 miles north. I was able to maintain altitude.
Approaching the Lakes I elected to continue another few miles to land at
Lakes Region airport. Still using the hand primer. During descent to
land the engine started to run normally. After normal landing I
inspected the fuel system and vent system carefully. I found no
problems. Engine ran normally, so I continued home. I never did find out
the problem, but I suspected that I had some water in the system that
froze and blocked the normal fuel pump system.
George Coy
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of H=C3=A5vard
Dale
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 4:22 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
Hi,
Look at this one, engine failure after take off. Pilot manage to climb
out after hiting the ground with his wing and cuted some trees. Engine
did cut after fuel supply problems and Pilot primed the engine and kept
it running for a return to field.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFAfuNWSCaI
H=C3=A5vard Dale
Yaknorway
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Goode <mailto:richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 9:21 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
You are wrong about the UK Yak 50, which we are currently restoring.
All the oil fell out due to the pressure-release valve not being
wire-locked, and the engine lasted about 3 min after the pilot noticed
the problem, but probably at least 10 min without oil before he did.
When the engine finally seized, it was with sufficient violence to break
the propeller shaft, and most of the piston-rings were actually welded
into the cylinders and immovable!
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bill wade
Sent: 09 September 2012 19:28
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
Bradly I remember a story of a new Yak 52 owner ferrying his new to him
airplane back east from Ca and what I recall is that on a straight in
final to one of the airports the engine quit due to fuel starvation and
he pumped enough fuel through the primer to make the airport.
It kind of makes since as the header tank would have at least two gals
of fuel in it cause it draws fuel from the top of the tank in upright
flight (bottom - inverted)and the primer draws from the bottom (I
think). But I also think you would have to pump the primer, although if
you don't center the primer in normal flight it sure does run rich.
We would need a diagram of the fuel system and header tank, Dennis
As for the oil pressure there is a video of a Yak 50 in England that ran
out of oil it didn't last long.
Bill Wade
From: Bradly Banks <brad@runawaymedia.co.za>
Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2012 1:05 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
Hello All , here is an interesting scenario that has come up in the late
evening discussions whilst chewing the cud.
We all know now that the accessory drive gear failed, and that the
engine stopped due to fuel starvation. In the POH the Russians
suggest that the fuel primer pump be left in the right (Cyl) and out
position when cold starting to allow unrestricted fuel into the intake.
Pg 16 /20 {http://ebookbrowse.com/rpa-yak52-poh-pdf-d148849914}
1) Would this allow fuel to be sucked directly into the intake
bypassing the carb system
2) Would the pressure created by the supercharger blow the fuel
back into the tank?
3) Could the aircraft have been given a few vital minutes by
allowing unrestricted fuel into the intake, for the Pilot to have made a
better choice of emergency landing?
4) How long could the engine run with out oil pressure as a result
of the gears disengaging ?
Bradly Banks
Cell:0825083200
Tel :0333308580
Email :brad@runawaymedia.co.za
Skype: brad.banks10
--
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting scenario |
Interesting story! Thanks for sharing!
Jan
From: George Coy <george.coy@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
I can also testify to running the Yak52 engine on the primer during a fuel
starvation problem. Early march about 7 years ago I was hired to pick up a
52 just outside of Boston and bring it to our shop in Vermont. The airplane
had sat for about 3 years. After a through ramp inspection I got it going.
Ran it up for a good bit. Found the com radio and transponder INOP. I
elected to fly NORDO. It was at a towered field, so I arranged with the
tower for light gun signals to depart. My course home put me right into
ARSA, so I climed to clear it. Sure enough at 6500 ft right over Manchester
NH airport the engine quit. No fuel pressure. I used the primer (cylinder
position) to keep the engine going. Each stroke of the primer gave a burst
of power. I headed toward frozen lakes about 15 miles north. I was able to
maintain altitude. Approaching the Lakes I elected to continue another few
miles to land at Lakes Region airport. Still using the hand primer. During
descent to land the engine started to run normally. After normal landing I
inspected the fuel system and vent system carefully. I found no problems.
Engine ran normally, so I continued home. I never did find out the problem,
but I suspected that I had some water in the system that froze and blocked
the normal fuel pump system.
George Coy
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of H=E5vard Dale
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 4:22 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
Hi,
Look at this one, engine failure after take off. Pilot manage to climb out
after hiting the ground with his wing and cuted some trees. Engine did cut
after fuel supply problems and Pilot primed the engine and kept it running
for a return to field.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFAfuNWSCaI
H=E5vard Dale
Yaknorway
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Richard Goode <mailto:richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 9:21 AM
>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
> You are wrong about the UK Yak 50, which we are currently restoring.
>
> All the oil fell out due to the pressure-release valve not being wire-loc
ked,
> and the engine lasted about 3 min after the pilot noticed the problem, bu
t
> probably at least 10 min without oil before he did.
>
> When the engine finally seized, it was with sufficient violence to break
the
> propeller shaft, and most of the piston-rings were actually welded into t
he
> cylinders and immovable!
>
>
> Richard Goode
> Rhodds Farm
> Lyonshall
> Hereford
> HR5 3LW
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
> www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com>
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bill wade
> Sent: 09 September 2012 19:28
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
> Bradly I remember a story of a new Yak 52 owner ferrying his new to him
> airplane back east from Ca and what I recall is that on a straight in fin
al to
> one of the airports the engine quit due to fuel starvation and he pumped
> enough fuel through the primer to make the airport.
>
> It kind of makes since as the header tank would have at least two gals of
fuel
> in it cause it draws fuel from the top of the tank in upright flight (bot
tom -
> inverted)and the primer draws from the bottom (I think). But I also think
you
> would have to pump the primer, although if you don't center the primer in
> normal flight it sure does run rich.
>
> We would need a diagram of the fuel system and header tank, Dennis
>
> As for the oil pressure there is a video of a Yak 50 in England that ran
out
> of oil it didn't last long.
>
> Bill Wade
>
>
>
> From: Bradly Banks <brad@runawaymedia.co.za>
> To: Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2012 1:05 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
> Hello All , here is an interesting scenario that has come up in the late
> evening discussions whilst chewing the cud.
>
> We all know now that the accessory drive gear failed, and that the engine
> stopped due to fuel starvation=8A. In the POH the Russians suggest that th
e
> fuel primer pump be left in the right (Cyl) and out position when cold
> starting to allow unrestricted fuel into the intake. Pg 16 /20
> {http://ebookbrowse.com/rpa-yak52-poh-pdf-d148849914}
>
> 1) Would this allow fuel to be sucked directly into the intake bypas
sing
> the carb system
>
> 2) Would the pressure created by the supercharger blow the fuel back
into
> the tank?
>
> 3) Could the aircraft have been given a few vital minutes by allowin
g
> unrestricted fuel into the intake, for the Pilot to have made a better ch
oice
> of emergency landing?
>
> 4) How long could the engine run with out oil pressure as a result o
f the
> gears disengaging ?
>
>
>
> Bradly Banks
>
> Cell:0825083200
>
> Tel :0333308580
>
> Email :brad@runawaymedia.co.za
>
> Skype: brad.banks10
>
>
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by Invictawiz MailScanner <http://www.invictawiz.com/>
, and
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Interesting scenario |
I remember that the old T-34B that I flew had a switch marked as "Emergency Fuel".
Can't quite remember how it worked, but I think it by-passed the normal fuel
delivery system and fed pressurized fuel right to the fuel injection distributor.
Gave full throttle only, but worked pretty darn well.
Given all the stories on this topic, and also given some of the individual designs
I have heard discussed on this list about electric fuel pump additions, it
seems pretty clear that an emergency backup fuel delivery system could be added
to both the M-14 and Housai engine designs pretty darn easily. I wouldn't
mind having something like that actually... but it is nice to know that if you
have a strong right hand, you might just get by with the primer pump!
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
Interesting story! Thanks for sharing!
Jan
From: George Coy <george.coy@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
I can also testify to running the Yak52 engine on the primer during a fuel starvation
problem. Early march about 7 years ago I was hired to pick up a 52 just
outside of Boston and bring it to our shop in Vermont. The airplane had sat for
about 3 years. After a through ramp inspection I got it going. Ran it up for
a good bit. Found the com radio and transponder INOP. I elected to fly NORDO.
It was at a towered field, so I arranged with the tower for light gun signals
to depart. My course home put me right into ARSA, so I climed to clear it. Sure
enough at 6500 ft right over Manchester NH airport the engine quit. No fuel
pressure. I used the primer (cylinder position) to keep the engine going. Each
stroke of the primer gave a burst of power. I headed toward frozen lakes about
15 miles north. I was able to maintain altitude. Approaching the Lakes I elected
to continue another few miles to land at Lakes Region airport. Still using
the hand primer. During descent to land the engine started to run normally.
After normal landing I inspected the fuel system and vent system carefully.
I found no problems. Engine ran normally, so I continued home. I never did find
out the problem, but I suspected that I had some water in the system that froze
and blocked the normal fuel pump system.
George Coy
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hvard Dale
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 4:22 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
Hi,
Look at this one, engine failure after take off. Pilot manage to climb out after
hiting the ground with his wing and cuted some trees. Engine did cut after fuel
supply problems and Pilot primed the engine and kept it running for a return
to field.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFAfuNWSCaI
Hvard Dale
Yaknorway
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Goode <mailto:richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 9:21 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
You are wrong about the UK Yak 50, which we are currently restoring.
All the oil fell out due to the pressure-release valve not being wire-locked,
and the engine lasted about 3 min after the pilot noticed the problem, but probably
at least 10 min without oil before he did.
When the engine finally seized, it was with sufficient violence to break the propeller
shaft, and most of the piston-rings were actually welded into the cylinders
and immovable!
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bill wade
Sent: 09 September 2012 19:28
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
Bradly I remember a story of a new Yak 52 owner ferrying his new to him airplane
back east from Ca and what I recall is that on a straight in final to one of
the airports the engine quit due to fuel starvation and he pumped enough fuel
through the primer to make the airport.
It kind of makes since as the header tank would have at least two gals of fuel
in it cause it draws fuel from the top of the tank in upright flight (bottom
- inverted)and the primer draws from the bottom (I think). But I also think you
would have to pump the primer, although if you don't center the primer in normal
flight it sure does run rich.
We would need a diagram of the fuel system and header tank, Dennis
As for the oil pressure there is a video of a Yak 50 in England that ran out of
oil it didn't last long.
Bill Wade
From: Bradly Banks <brad@runawaymedia.co.za>
To: Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2012 1:05 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
Hello All , here is an interesting scenario that has come up in the late evening
discussions whilst chewing the cud.
We all know now that the accessory drive gear failed, and that the engine stopped due to fuel starvation.... In the POH the Russians suggest that the fuel primer pump be left in the right (Cyl) and out position when cold starting to allow unrestricted fuel into the intake. Pg 16 /20 {http://ebookbrowse.com/rpa-yak52-poh-pdf-d148849914}
1) Would this allow fuel to be sucked directly into the intake bypassing
the carb system
2) Would the pressure created by the supercharger blow the fuel back into
the tank?
3) Could the aircraft have been given a few vital minutes by allowing unrestricted
fuel into the intake, for the Pilot to have made a better choice of
emergency landing?
4) How long could the engine run with out oil pressure as a result of the
gears disengaging ?
Bradly Banks
Cell:0825083200
Tel :0333308580
Email :brad@runawaymedia.co.za
Skype: brad.banks10
--
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting scenario |
"if you have a strong right hand, you might just get by"
I'm going to boldly NOT go where everyone else is already thinking anyway..
.
On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> I remember that the old T-34B that I flew had a switch marked as
> "Emergency Fuel". Can't quite remember how it worked, but I think it
> by-passed the normal fuel delivery system and fed pressurized fuel right
to
> the fuel injection distributor. Gave full throttle only, but worked pret
ty
> darn well.
>
> Given all the stories on this topic, and also given some of the individua
l
> designs I have heard discussed on this list about electric fuel pump
> additions, it seems pretty clear that an emergency backup fuel delivery
> system could be added to both the M-14 and Housai engine designs pretty
> darn easily. I wouldn't mind having something like that actually... but
it
> is nice to know that if you have a strong right hand, you might just get
by
> with the primer pump!
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 2:43 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
> Interesting story! Thanks for sharing!
>
> Jan
>
> From: George Coy <george.coy@gmail.com>
> Date: Tuesday 11 September 2012 14:17
> To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
> I can also testify to running the Yak52 engine on the primer during a fue
l
> starvation problem. Early march about 7 years ago I was hired to pick up
a
> 52 just outside of Boston and bring it to our shop in Vermont. The airpla
ne
> had sat for about 3 years. After a through ramp inspection I got it going
.
> Ran it up for a good bit. Found the com radio and transponder INOP. I
> elected to fly NORDO. It was at a towered field, so I arranged with the
> tower for light gun signals to depart. My course home put me right into
> ARSA, so I climed to clear it. Sure enough at 6500 ft right over Manchest
er
> NH airport the engine quit. No fuel pressure. I used the primer (cylinder
> position) to keep the engine going. Each stroke of the primer gave a burs
t
> of power. I headed toward frozen lakes about 15 miles north. I was able t
o
> maintain altitude. Approaching the Lakes I elected to continue another fe
w
> miles to land at Lakes Region airport. Still using the hand primer. Durin
g
> descent to land the engi!
> ne started to run normally. After normal landing I inspected the fuel
> system and vent system carefully. I found no problems. Engine ran normall
y,
> so I continued home. I never did find out the problem, but I suspected th
at
> I had some water in the system that froze and blocked the normal fuel pum
p
> system.
>
> George Coy
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of H=E5vard Dale
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 4:22 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
> Look at this one, engine failure after take off. Pilot manage to climb ou
t
> after hiting the ground with his wing and cuted some trees. Engine did cu
t
> after fuel supply problems and Pilot primed the engine and kept it runnin
g
> for a return to field.
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFAfuNWSCaI
>
>
> H=E5vard Dale
>
> Yaknorway
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Richard Goode <mailto:richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 9:21 AM
>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
> You are wrong about the UK Yak 50, which we are currently
> restoring.
>
>
> All the oil fell out due to the pressure-release valve not being
> wire-locked, and the engine lasted about 3 min after the pilot noticed th
e
> problem, but probably at least 10 min without oil before he did.
>
>
> When the engine finally seized, it was with sufficient violence t
o
> break the propeller shaft, and most of the piston-rings were actually
> welded into the cylinders and immovable!
>
>
> Richard Goode
>
> Rhodds Farm
>
> Lyonshall
>
> Hereford
>
> HR5 3LW
>
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
>
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
>
> www.russianaeros.com
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bill wade
> Sent: 09 September 2012 19:28
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
> Bradly I remember a story of a new Yak 52 owner ferrying his new
> to him airplane back east from Ca and what I recall is that on a straight
> in final to one of the airports the engine quit due to fuel starvation an
d
> he pumped enough fuel through the primer to make the airport.
>
> It kind of makes since as the header tank would have at least two
> gals of fuel in it cause it draws fuel from the top of the tank in uprigh
t
> flight (bottom - inverted)and the primer draws from the bottom (I think).
> But I also think you would have to pump the primer, although if you don't
> center the primer in normal flight it sure does run rich.
>
> We would need a diagram of the fuel system and header tank, Denni
s
>
> As for the oil pressure there is a video of a Yak 50 in England
> that ran out of oil it didn't last long.
>
> Bill Wade
>
>
> From: Bradly Banks <brad@runawaymedia.co.za>
> To: Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2012 1:05 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
> Hello All , here is an interesting scenario that has come up in
> the late evening discussions whilst chewing the cud.
>
> We all know now that the accessory drive gear failed, and that th
e
> engine stopped due to fuel starvation.... In the POH the Russians sugges
t
> that the fuel primer pump be left in the right (Cyl) and out position wh
en
> cold starting to allow unrestricted fuel into the intake. Pg 16 /20 {
> http://ebookbrowse.com/rpa-yak52-poh-pdf-d148849914}
>
> 1) Would this allow fuel to be sucked directly into the
> intake bypassing the carb system
>
> 2) Would the pressure created by the supercharger blow the
> fuel back into the tank?
>
> 3) Could the aircraft have been given a few vital minutes by
> allowing unrestricted fuel into the intake, for the Pilot to have made a
> better choice of emergency landing?
>
> 4) How long could the engine run with out oil pressure as a
> result of the gears disengaging ?
>
>
> Bradly Banks
>
> Cell:0825083200
>
> Tel :0333308580
>
> Email :brad@runawaymedia.co.za
>
> Skype: brad.banks10
>
>
> --
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