Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:33 AM - Re: Interesting scenario (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
2. 06:29 AM - Re: Interesting scenario (Roger Kemp)
3. 08:44 AM - Re: Interesting scenario (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
4. 08:56 AM - Re: Interesting scenario (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
5. 11:18 AM - Changes ? (Ahmed)
6. 11:35 AM - Re: Interesting scenario (Didier BLOUZARD)
7. 11:50 AM - CJ jacks (doug sapp)
8. 12:12 PM - Re: Changes ? (Robin Hou)
9. 12:21 PM - Re: CJ jacks (Doug Zeissner)
10. 01:10 PM - Re: Changes ? (Robin Hou)
11. 01:11 PM - Re: Changes ? (A. Dennis Savarese)
12. 01:13 PM - Re: Changes ? (A. Dennis Savarese)
13. 01:14 PM - Re: Changes ? (A. Dennis Savarese)
14. 07:09 PM - Re: Interesting scenario (Roger Kemp M.D.)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Interesting scenario |
I'm left handed ......
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rico Jaeger
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
"if you have a strong right hand, you might just get by"
I'm going to boldly NOT go where everyone else is already thinking anyway...
On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
I remember that the old T-34B that I flew had a switch marked as "Emergency Fuel".
Can't quite remember how it worked, but I think it by-passed the normal
fuel delivery system and fed pressurized fuel right to the fuel injection distributor.
Gave full throttle only, but worked pretty darn well.
Given all the stories on this topic, and also given some of the individual designs
I have heard discussed on this list about electric fuel pump additions, it
seems pretty clear that an emergency backup fuel delivery system could be added
to both the M-14 and Housai engine designs pretty darn easily. I wouldn't
mind having something like that actually... but it is nice to know that if you
have a strong right hand, you might just get by with the primer pump!
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 2:43 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
Interesting story! Thanks for sharing!
Jan
From: George Coy <george.coy@gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday 11 September 2012 14:17
To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
I can also testify to running the Yak52 engine on the primer during a fuel starvation
problem. Early march about 7 years ago I was hired to pick up a 52 just
outside of Boston and bring it to our shop in Vermont. The airplane had sat
for about 3 years. After a through ramp inspection I got it going. Ran it up for
a good bit. Found the com radio and transponder INOP. I elected to fly NORDO.
It was at a towered field, so I arranged with the tower for light gun signals
to depart. My course home put me right into ARSA, so I climed to clear it.
Sure enough at 6500 ft right over Manchester NH airport the engine quit. No fuel
pressure. I used the primer (cylinder position) to keep the engine going. Each
stroke of the primer gave a burst of power. I headed toward frozen lakes about
15 miles north. I was able to maintain altitude. Approaching the Lakes I
elected to continue another few miles to land at Lakes Region airport. Still using
the hand primer. During descent to land the engi!
ne started to run normally. After normal landing I inspected the fuel system
and vent system carefully. I found no problems. Engine ran normally, so I continued
home. I never did find out the problem, but I suspected that I had some
water in the system that froze and blocked the normal fuel pump system.
George Coy
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hvard Dale
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 4:22 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
Hi,
Look at this one, engine failure after take off. Pilot manage to climb out after
hiting the ground with his wing and cuted some trees. Engine did cut after
fuel supply problems and Pilot primed the engine and kept it running for a return
to field.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFAfuNWSCaI
Hvard Dale
Yaknorway
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Goode <mailto:richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 9:21 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
You are wrong about the UK Yak 50, which we are currently restoring.
All the oil fell out due to the pressure-release valve not being wire-locked,
and the engine lasted about 3 min after the pilot noticed the problem,
but probably at least 10 min without oil before he did.
When the engine finally seized, it was with sufficient violence to break
the propeller shaft, and most of the piston-rings were actually welded into
the cylinders and immovable!
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com/>
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bill wade
Sent: 09 September 2012 19:28
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
Bradly I remember a story of a new Yak 52 owner ferrying his new to him
airplane back east from Ca and what I recall is that on a straight in final
to one of the airports the engine quit due to fuel starvation and he pumped enough
fuel through the primer to make the airport.
It kind of makes since as the header tank would have at least two gals
of fuel in it cause it draws fuel from the top of the tank in upright flight
(bottom - inverted)and the primer draws from the bottom (I think). But I also
think you would have to pump the primer, although if you don't center the primer
in normal flight it sure does run rich.
We would need a diagram of the fuel system and header tank, Dennis
As for the oil pressure there is a video of a Yak 50 in England that ran
out of oil it didn't last long.
Bill Wade
From: Bradly Banks <brad@runawaymedia.co.za>
To: Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2012 1:05 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
Hello All , here is an interesting scenario that has come up in the late
evening discussions whilst chewing the cud.
We all know now that the accessory drive gear failed, and that the engine stopped due to fuel starvation.... In the POH the Russians suggest that the fuel primer pump be left in the right (Cyl) and out position when cold starting to allow unrestricted fuel into the intake. Pg 16 /20 {http://ebookbrowse.com/rpa-yak52-poh-pdf-d148849914}
1) Would this allow fuel to be sucked directly into the intake bypassing
the carb system
2) Would the pressure created by the supercharger blow the fuel back
into the tank?
3) Could the aircraft have been given a few vital minutes by allowing
unrestricted fuel into the intake, for the Pilot to have made a better choice
of emergency landing?
4) How long could the engine run with out oil pressure as a result
of the gears disengaging ?
Bradly Banks
Cell:0825083200
Tel :0333308580
Email :brad@runawaymedia.co.za
Skype: brad.banks10
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Interesting scenario |
You are a Marine...adapt.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>Sent: Sep 12, 2012 6:31 AM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
>
>I'm left handed ......
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rico Jaeger
>Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 4:02 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>"if you have a strong right hand, you might just get by"
>
>I'm going to boldly NOT go where everyone else is already thinking anyway...
>
>
>On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
>
>
>
> I remember that the old T-34B that I flew had a switch marked as "Emergency Fuel".
Can't quite remember how it worked, but I think it by-passed the normal
fuel delivery system and fed pressurized fuel right to the fuel injection distributor.
Gave full throttle only, but worked pretty darn well.
>
> Given all the stories on this topic, and also given some of the individual designs
I have heard discussed on this list about electric fuel pump additions,
it seems pretty clear that an emergency backup fuel delivery system could be added
to both the M-14 and Housai engine designs pretty darn easily. I wouldn't
mind having something like that actually... but it is nice to know that if you
have a strong right hand, you might just get by with the primer pump!
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 2:43 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
> Interesting story! Thanks for sharing!
>
> Jan
>
> From: George Coy <george.coy@gmail.com>
> Date: Tuesday 11 September 2012 14:17
> To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
>
>
> I can also testify to running the Yak52 engine on the primer during a fuel starvation
problem. Early march about 7 years ago I was hired to pick up a 52 just
outside of Boston and bring it to our shop in Vermont. The airplane had sat
for about 3 years. After a through ramp inspection I got it going. Ran it up
for a good bit. Found the com radio and transponder INOP. I elected to fly NORDO.
It was at a towered field, so I arranged with the tower for light gun signals
to depart. My course home put me right into ARSA, so I climed to clear it.
Sure enough at 6500 ft right over Manchester NH airport the engine quit. No fuel
pressure. I used the primer (cylinder position) to keep the engine going.
Each stroke of the primer gave a burst of power. I headed toward frozen lakes
about 15 miles north. I was able to maintain altitude. Approaching the Lakes I
elected to continue another few miles to land at Lakes Region airport. Still
using the hand primer. During descent to land the eng!
> i!
>
> ne started to run normally. After normal landing I inspected the fuel system
and vent system carefully. I found no problems. Engine ran normally, so I continued
home. I never did find out the problem, but I suspected that I had some
water in the system that froze and blocked the normal fuel pump system.
>
> George Coy
>
>
>
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hvard Dale
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 4:22 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Look at this one, engine failure after take off. Pilot manage to climb out after
hiting the ground with his wing and cuted some trees. Engine did cut after
fuel supply problems and Pilot primed the engine and kept it running for a return
to field.
>
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFAfuNWSCaI
>
>
>
> Hvard Dale
>
> Yaknorway
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: Richard Goode <mailto:richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
>
>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 9:21 AM
>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
>
> You are wrong about the UK Yak 50, which we are currently restoring.
>
>
>
> All the oil fell out due to the pressure-release valve not being wire-locked,
and the engine lasted about 3 min after the pilot noticed the problem,
but probably at least 10 min without oil before he did.
>
>
>
> When the engine finally seized, it was with sufficient violence to break
the propeller shaft, and most of the piston-rings were actually welded into
the cylinders and immovable!
>
>
>
> Richard Goode
>
> Rhodds Farm
>
> Lyonshall
>
> Hereford
>
> HR5 3LW
>
>
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
>
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
>
> www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com/>
>
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bill wade
> Sent: 09 September 2012 19:28
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
>
> Bradly I remember a story of a new Yak 52 owner ferrying his new to him
airplane back east from Ca and what I recall is that on a straight in final
to one of the airports the engine quit due to fuel starvation and he pumped enough
fuel through the primer to make the airport.
>
> It kind of makes since as the header tank would have at least two gals
of fuel in it cause it draws fuel from the top of the tank in upright flight
(bottom - inverted)and the primer draws from the bottom (I think). But I also
think you would have to pump the primer, although if you don't center the primer
in normal flight it sure does run rich.
>
> We would need a diagram of the fuel system and header tank, Dennis
>
> As for the oil pressure there is a video of a Yak 50 in England that
ran out of oil it didn't last long.
>
> Bill Wade
>
>
>
> From: Bradly Banks <brad@runawaymedia.co.za>
> To: Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2012 1:05 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
>
> Hello All , here is an interesting scenario that has come up in the late
evening discussions whilst chewing the cud.
>
>
> We all know now that the accessory drive gear failed, and that the engine stopped due to fuel starvation.... In the POH the Russians suggest that the fuel primer pump be left in the right (Cyl) and out position when cold starting to allow unrestricted fuel into the intake. Pg 16 /20 {http://ebookbrowse.com/rpa-yak52-poh-pdf-d148849914}
>
>
> 1) Would this allow fuel to be sucked directly into the intake bypassing
the carb system
>
> 2) Would the pressure created by the supercharger blow the fuel
back into the tank?
>
> 3) Could the aircraft have been given a few vital minutes by allowing
unrestricted fuel into the intake, for the Pilot to have made a better choice
of emergency landing?
>
> 4) How long could the engine run with out oil pressure as a result
of the gears disengaging ?
>
>
>
> Bradly Banks
>
> Cell:0825083200
>
> Tel :0333308580
>
> Email :brad@runawaymedia.co.za
>
> Skype: brad.banks10
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>
> dangerous content by Invictawiz MailScanner <http://www.invictawiz.com/> , and is
>
> believed to be clean.
>
>
>
>
> <=======================< - The Yak-List Email Forum -
>
> n/Subscription,
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List<=======================< <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List%3c=======================%3c> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>
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>
>
>
>
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>
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>
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> -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by
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>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/> ">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
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>
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>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
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> ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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> ronics.> :
> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List <http://ronics.com/contribution>
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> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Interesting scenario |
I already have. I just offer the task to some Air Force weenie...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:16 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
You are a Marine...adapt.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>Sent: Sep 12, 2012 6:31 AM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
>
>I'm left handed ......
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rico Jaeger
>Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 4:02 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>"if you have a strong right hand, you might just get by"
>
>I'm going to boldly NOT go where everyone else is already thinking anyway...
>
>
>On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
>
>
>
> I remember that the old T-34B that I flew had a switch marked as "Emergency Fuel".
Can't quite remember how it worked, but I think it by-passed the normal
fuel delivery system and fed pressurized fuel right to the fuel injection distributor.
Gave full throttle only, but worked pretty darn well.
>
> Given all the stories on this topic, and also given some of the individual designs
I have heard discussed on this list about electric fuel pump additions,
it seems pretty clear that an emergency backup fuel delivery system could be added
to both the M-14 and Housai engine designs pretty darn easily. I wouldn't
mind having something like that actually... but it is nice to know that if you
have a strong right hand, you might just get by with the primer pump!
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 2:43 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
> Interesting story! Thanks for sharing!
>
> Jan
>
> From: George Coy <george.coy@gmail.com>
> Date: Tuesday 11 September 2012 14:17
> To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
>
>
> I can also testify to running the Yak52 engine on the primer during a fuel starvation
problem. Early march about 7 years ago I was hired to pick up a 52 just
outside of Boston and bring it to our shop in Vermont. The airplane had sat
for about 3 years. After a through ramp inspection I got it going. Ran it up
for a good bit. Found the com radio and transponder INOP. I elected to fly NORDO.
It was at a towered field, so I arranged with the tower for light gun signals
to depart. My course home put me right into ARSA, so I climed to clear it.
Sure enough at 6500 ft right over Manchester NH airport the engine quit. No fuel
pressure. I used the primer (cylinder position) to keep the engine going.
Each stroke of the primer gave a burst of power. I headed toward frozen lakes
about 15 miles north. I was able to maintain altitude. Approaching the Lakes I
elected to continue another few miles to land at Lakes Region airport. Still
using the hand primer. During descent to land the en!
g!
> i!
>
> ne started to run normally. After normal landing I inspected the fuel system
and vent system carefully. I found no problems. Engine ran normally, so I continued
home. I never did find out the problem, but I suspected that I had some
water in the system that froze and blocked the normal fuel pump system.
>
> George Coy
>
>
>
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hvard Dale
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 4:22 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Look at this one, engine failure after take off. Pilot manage to climb out after
hiting the ground with his wing and cuted some trees. Engine did cut after
fuel supply problems and Pilot primed the engine and kept it running for a return
to field.
>
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFAfuNWSCaI
>
>
>
> Hvard Dale
>
> Yaknorway
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: Richard Goode <mailto:richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
>
>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 9:21 AM
>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
>
> You are wrong about the UK Yak 50, which we are currently restoring.
>
>
>
> All the oil fell out due to the pressure-release valve not being wire-locked,
and the engine lasted about 3 min after the pilot noticed the problem,
but probably at least 10 min without oil before he did.
>
>
>
> When the engine finally seized, it was with sufficient violence to break
the propeller shaft, and most of the piston-rings were actually welded into
the cylinders and immovable!
>
>
>
> Richard Goode
>
> Rhodds Farm
>
> Lyonshall
>
> Hereford
>
> HR5 3LW
>
>
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
>
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
>
> www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com/>
>
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bill wade
> Sent: 09 September 2012 19:28
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
>
> Bradly I remember a story of a new Yak 52 owner ferrying his new to him
airplane back east from Ca and what I recall is that on a straight in final
to one of the airports the engine quit due to fuel starvation and he pumped enough
fuel through the primer to make the airport.
>
> It kind of makes since as the header tank would have at least two gals
of fuel in it cause it draws fuel from the top of the tank in upright flight
(bottom - inverted)and the primer draws from the bottom (I think). But I also
think you would have to pump the primer, although if you don't center the primer
in normal flight it sure does run rich.
>
> We would need a diagram of the fuel system and header tank, Dennis
>
> As for the oil pressure there is a video of a Yak 50 in England that
ran out of oil it didn't last long.
>
> Bill Wade
>
>
>
> From: Bradly Banks <brad@runawaymedia.co.za>
> To: Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2012 1:05 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
>
> Hello All , here is an interesting scenario that has come up in the late
evening discussions whilst chewing the cud.
>
>
> We all know now that the accessory drive gear failed, and that the engine stopped due to fuel starvation.... In the POH the Russians suggest that the fuel primer pump be left in the right (Cyl) and out position when cold starting to allow unrestricted fuel into the intake. Pg 16 /20 {http://ebookbrowse.com/rpa-yak52-poh-pdf-d148849914}
>
>
> 1) Would this allow fuel to be sucked directly into the intake bypassing
the carb system
>
> 2) Would the pressure created by the supercharger blow the fuel
back into the tank?
>
> 3) Could the aircraft have been given a few vital minutes by allowing
unrestricted fuel into the intake, for the Pilot to have made a better choice
of emergency landing?
>
> 4) How long could the engine run with out oil pressure as a result
of the gears disengaging ?
>
>
>
> Bradly Banks
>
> Cell:0825083200
>
> Tel :0333308580
>
> Email :brad@runawaymedia.co.za
>
> Skype: brad.banks10
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>
> dangerous content by Invictawiz MailScanner <http://www.invictawiz.com/> , and is
>
> believed to be clean.
>
>
>
>
> <=======================< - The Yak-List Email Forum -
>
> n/Subscription,
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List<=======================< <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List%3c=======================%3c> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>
>
> <://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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>
> believed to be clean.
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> -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by
the Invictawiz MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/> ">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> com
> ronics.> :
> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List <http://ronics.com/contribution>
>
> = --> h
> a href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://forums.matronics.com/>
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Interesting scenario |
Probably a good idea to drop this one Doc..... you can have the parting shot.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:41 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
I already have. I just offer the task to some Air Force weenie...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:16 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
You are a Marine...adapt.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>Sent: Sep 12, 2012 6:31 AM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
>
>I'm left handed ......
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rico Jaeger
>Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 4:02 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>"if you have a strong right hand, you might just get by"
>
>I'm going to boldly NOT go where everyone else is already thinking anyway...
>
>
>On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
>
>
>
> I remember that the old T-34B that I flew had a switch marked as "Emergency Fuel".
Can't quite remember how it worked, but I think it by-passed the normal
fuel delivery system and fed pressurized fuel right to the fuel injection distributor.
Gave full throttle only, but worked pretty darn well.
>
> Given all the stories on this topic, and also given some of the individual designs
I have heard discussed on this list about electric fuel pump additions,
it seems pretty clear that an emergency backup fuel delivery system could be added
to both the M-14 and Housai engine designs pretty darn easily. I wouldn't
mind having something like that actually... but it is nice to know that if you
have a strong right hand, you might just get by with the primer pump!
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 2:43 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
> Interesting story! Thanks for sharing!
>
> Jan
>
> From: George Coy <george.coy@gmail.com>
> Date: Tuesday 11 September 2012 14:17
> To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
>
>
> I can also testify to running the Yak52 engine on the primer during a fuel starvation
problem. Early march about 7 years ago I was hired to pick up a 52 just
outside of Boston and bring it to our shop in Vermont. The airplane had sat
for about 3 years. After a through ramp inspection I got it going. Ran it up
for a good bit. Found the com radio and transponder INOP. I elected to fly NORDO.
It was at a towered field, so I arranged with the tower for light gun signals
to depart. My course home put me right into ARSA, so I climed to clear it.
Sure enough at 6500 ft right over Manchester NH airport the engine quit. No fuel
pressure. I used the primer (cylinder position) to keep the engine going.
Each stroke of the primer gave a burst of power. I headed toward frozen lakes
about 15 miles north. I was able to maintain altitude. Approaching the Lakes I
elected to continue another few miles to land at Lakes Region airport. Still
using the hand primer. During descent to land the en!
g!
> i!
>
> ne started to run normally. After normal landing I inspected the fuel system
and vent system carefully. I found no problems. Engine ran normally, so I continued
home. I never did find out the problem, but I suspected that I had some
water in the system that froze and blocked the normal fuel pump system.
>
> George Coy
>
>
>
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hvard Dale
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 4:22 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Look at this one, engine failure after take off. Pilot manage to climb out after
hiting the ground with his wing and cuted some trees. Engine did cut after
fuel supply problems and Pilot primed the engine and kept it running for a return
to field.
>
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFAfuNWSCaI
>
>
>
> Hvard Dale
>
> Yaknorway
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: Richard Goode <mailto:richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
>
>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 9:21 AM
>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
>
> You are wrong about the UK Yak 50, which we are currently restoring.
>
>
>
> All the oil fell out due to the pressure-release valve not being wire-locked,
and the engine lasted about 3 min after the pilot noticed the problem,
but probably at least 10 min without oil before he did.
>
>
>
> When the engine finally seized, it was with sufficient violence to break
the propeller shaft, and most of the piston-rings were actually welded into
the cylinders and immovable!
>
>
>
> Richard Goode
>
> Rhodds Farm
>
> Lyonshall
>
> Hereford
>
> HR5 3LW
>
>
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
>
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
>
> www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com/>
>
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bill wade
> Sent: 09 September 2012 19:28
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
>
> Bradly I remember a story of a new Yak 52 owner ferrying his new to him
airplane back east from Ca and what I recall is that on a straight in final
to one of the airports the engine quit due to fuel starvation and he pumped enough
fuel through the primer to make the airport.
>
> It kind of makes since as the header tank would have at least two gals
of fuel in it cause it draws fuel from the top of the tank in upright flight
(bottom - inverted)and the primer draws from the bottom (I think). But I also
think you would have to pump the primer, although if you don't center the primer
in normal flight it sure does run rich.
>
> We would need a diagram of the fuel system and header tank, Dennis
>
> As for the oil pressure there is a video of a Yak 50 in England that
ran out of oil it didn't last long.
>
> Bill Wade
>
>
>
> From: Bradly Banks <brad@runawaymedia.co.za>
> To: Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2012 1:05 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
>
> Hello All , here is an interesting scenario that has come up in the late
evening discussions whilst chewing the cud.
>
>
> We all know now that the accessory drive gear failed, and that the engine stopped due to fuel starvation.... In the POH the Russians suggest that the fuel primer pump be left in the right (Cyl) and out position when cold starting to allow unrestricted fuel into the intake. Pg 16 /20 {http://ebookbrowse.com/rpa-yak52-poh-pdf-d148849914}
>
>
> 1) Would this allow fuel to be sucked directly into the intake bypassing
the carb system
>
> 2) Would the pressure created by the supercharger blow the fuel
back into the tank?
>
> 3) Could the aircraft have been given a few vital minutes by allowing
unrestricted fuel into the intake, for the Pilot to have made a better choice
of emergency landing?
>
> 4) How long could the engine run with out oil pressure as a result
of the gears disengaging ?
>
>
>
> Bradly Banks
>
> Cell:0825083200
>
> Tel :0333308580
>
> Email :brad@runawaymedia.co.za
>
> Skype: brad.banks10
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>
> dangerous content by Invictawiz MailScanner <http://www.invictawiz.com/> , and is
>
> believed to be clean.
>
>
>
>
> <=======================< - The Yak-List Email Forum -
>
> n/Subscription,
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List<=======================< <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List%3c=======================%3c> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>
>
> <://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>
> dangerous content by Invictawiz MailScanner <http://www.invictawiz.com/> , and is
>
> believed to be clean.
>
> -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by
the Invictawiz MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/> ">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> com
> ronics.> :
> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List <http://ronics.com/contribution>
>
> = --> h
> a href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://forums.matronics.com/>
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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|
I am helping a good friend who just bought a Nanchang and is trying to get his
Operating Limitations and Airworthiness certificate re issued.
He called our FSDO and the inspector told him that EVERY THING has been changed
as of this July and now he asking for a maintenance program letter and copies
of the previous 2 Annual inspections. Additionally, he said that a statement
that he is responsible for the operation and maintenance of the aircraft must
be in the program letter as well as a statement of who is going to be the PIC.
Does any one know about these changes and a good DAR in Ga?
Med
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting scenario |
Don't word of tour Life dpend on it you will do it !
I have no doubt left hand, right hand, right foot, left foot, tongue anything would
do it for life!!!
Enjoy.....
Didier Blouzard
+33(0)6 5184 4802
Le 12 sept. 2012 17:53, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
a crit :
>
> Probably a good idea to drop this one Doc..... you can have the parting shot.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:41 AM
> To: 'yak-list@matronics.com'
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
> I already have. I just offer the task to some Air Force weenie...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:16 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>
>
> You are a Marine...adapt.
> Doc
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>> Sent: Sep 12, 2012 6:31 AM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm left handed ......
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rico Jaeger
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 4:02 PM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>>
>> "if you have a strong right hand, you might just get by"
>>
>> I'm going to boldly NOT go where everyone else is already thinking anyway...
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I remember that the old T-34B that I flew had a switch marked as "Emergency
Fuel". Can't quite remember how it worked, but I think it by-passed the normal
fuel delivery system and fed pressurized fuel right to the fuel injection
distributor. Gave full throttle only, but worked pretty darn well.
>>
>> Given all the stories on this topic, and also given some of the individual
designs I have heard discussed on this list about electric fuel pump additions,
it seems pretty clear that an emergency backup fuel delivery system could
be added to both the M-14 and Housai engine designs pretty darn easily. I wouldn't
mind having something like that actually... but it is nice to know that
if you have a strong right hand, you might just get by with the primer pump!
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 2:43 PM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>>
>>
>> Interesting story! Thanks for sharing!
>>
>> Jan
>>
>> From: George Coy <george.coy@gmail.com>
>> Date: Tuesday 11 September 2012 14:17
>> To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I can also testify to running the Yak52 engine on the primer during a fuel
starvation problem. Early march about 7 years ago I was hired to pick up a 52
just outside of Boston and bring it to our shop in Vermont. The airplane had
sat for about 3 years. After a through ramp inspection I got it going. Ran it
up for a good bit. Found the com radio and transponder INOP. I elected to fly
NORDO. It was at a towered field, so I arranged with the tower for light gun
signals to depart. My course home put me right into ARSA, so I climed to clear
it. Sure enough at 6500 ft right over Manchester NH airport the engine quit.
No fuel pressure. I used the primer (cylinder position) to keep the engine going.
Each stroke of the primer gave a burst of power. I headed toward frozen lakes
about 15 miles north. I was able to maintain altitude. Approaching the Lakes
I elected to continue another few miles to land at Lakes Region airport. Still
using the hand primer. During descent to land the en!
> g!
>> i!
>>
>> ne started to run normally. After normal landing I inspected the fuel system
and vent system carefully. I found no problems. Engine ran normally, so I
continued home. I never did find out the problem, but I suspected that I had
some water in the system that froze and blocked the normal fuel pump system.
>>
>> George Coy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hvard Dale
>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 4:22 AM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> Look at this one, engine failure after take off. Pilot manage to climb out
after hiting the ground with his wing and cuted some trees. Engine did cut after
fuel supply problems and Pilot primed the engine and kept it running for
a return to field.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFAfuNWSCaI
>>
>>
>>
>> Hvard Dale
>>
>> Yaknorway
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>>
>> From: Richard Goode <mailto:richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
>>
>>
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>
>> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 9:21 AM
>>
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>>
>>
>>
>> You are wrong about the UK Yak 50, which we are currently restoring.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the oil fell out due to the pressure-release valve not being
wire-locked, and the engine lasted about 3 min after the pilot noticed the problem,
but probably at least 10 min without oil before he did.
>>
>>
>>
>> When the engine finally seized, it was with sufficient violence to
break the propeller shaft, and most of the piston-rings were actually welded
into the cylinders and immovable!
>>
>>
>>
>> Richard Goode
>>
>> Rhodds Farm
>>
>> Lyonshall
>>
>> Hereford
>>
>> HR5 3LW
>>
>>
>>
>> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
>>
>> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
>>
>> www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bill wade
>> Sent: 09 September 2012 19:28
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>>
>>
>>
>> Bradly I remember a story of a new Yak 52 owner ferrying his new
to him airplane back east from Ca and what I recall is that on a straight in final
to one of the airports the engine quit due to fuel starvation and he pumped
enough fuel through the primer to make the airport.
>>
>> It kind of makes since as the header tank would have at least two
gals of fuel in it cause it draws fuel from the top of the tank in upright flight
(bottom - inverted)and the primer draws from the bottom (I think). But I
also think you would have to pump the primer, although if you don't center the
primer in normal flight it sure does run rich.
>>
>> We would need a diagram of the fuel system and header tank, Dennis
>>
>> As for the oil pressure there is a video of a Yak 50 in England that
ran out of oil it didn't last long.
>>
>> Bill Wade
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Bradly Banks <brad@runawaymedia.co.za>
>> To: Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2012 1:05 PM
>> Subject: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello All , here is an interesting scenario that has come up in the
late evening discussions whilst chewing the cud.
>>
>>
>> We all know now that the accessory drive gear failed, and that the engine stopped due to fuel starvation.... In the POH the Russians suggest that the fuel primer pump be left in the right (Cyl) and out position when cold starting to allow unrestricted fuel into the intake. Pg 16 /20 {http://ebookbrowse.com/rpa-yak52-poh-pdf-d148849914}
>>
>>
>> 1) Would this allow fuel to be sucked directly into the intake
bypassing the carb system
>>
>> 2) Would the pressure created by the supercharger blow the fuel
back into the tank?
>>
>> 3) Could the aircraft have been given a few vital minutes by
allowing unrestricted fuel into the intake, for the Pilot to have made a better
choice of emergency landing?
>>
>> 4) How long could the engine run with out oil pressure as a
result of the gears disengaging ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Bradly Banks
>>
>> Cell:0825083200
>>
>> Tel :0333308580
>>
>> Email :brad@runawaymedia.co.za
>>
>> Skype: brad.banks10
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>>
>> dangerous content by Invictawiz MailScanner <http://www.invictawiz.com/> , and is
>>
>> believed to be clean.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <=======================< - The Yak-List Email Forum -
>>
>> n/Subscription,
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List<=======================< <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List%3c=======================%3c> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>>
>>
>> <://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>>
>> dangerous content by Invictawiz MailScanner <http://www.invictawiz.com/> , and is
>>
>> believed to be clean.
>>
>> -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content
by the Invictawiz MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
>>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/> ">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> com
>> ronics.> :
>> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List <http://ronics.com/contribution>
>>
>> = --> h
>> a href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://forums.matronics.com/>
>> ==========
>>
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Message 7
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CJ drivers,
I have been asked to make another run of CJ wing jack sets.
This run will consist of:
12 each stub wing jacks
6 each engine support jacks
6 each tail jack support jack stands
At this writing 2 of the 6 sets are spoken for. If you have an interest
please contact me off line.
Because of steel costs, labor costs, old age and a very bad back I am sure
that this one will be my last production run of CJ jacks.
Best to all from Omak,
Doug Sapp
Message 8
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Your FSDO is wrong; see the attached Deviation to Order that EAA Warbird se
nt me.
Prior to FAA=99s issuance of=0Athe Deviation to Order, certification
of experimental exhibition category=0Aaircrafts was governed by FAA Order 8
130.2G which provided the local FSDO having=0Athe power to require reissuan
ce of the aircraft=99s special airworthiness=0Acertificate and operat
ing limitations upon transfer of ownership or change of=0Ahome base. See FA
A Order 8130.2G, Chang 1, Section 10, Paragraph 4107c(2).=0A=0A=C2-=0A=0A
However, the Deviation to=0AOrder limits the power of local FSDO to require
reissuance.=C2- Under the revised Paragraph 4107c(2) of the=0ADeviation
to Order, local FSDO will not require reissuance unless the aircraft=0Ais i
n Phase I testing, or FAA Headquarters determines that reissuance is=0Arequ
ired, or the owner requests reissuance. See the Deviation to Order, Section
=0A10, Paragraph 4107c(2).
EAA saved me from weeks of downtime and hundreds if not thousands to pay DA
R.
Email me off line if you want a copy of my program letter.
Robin
--- On Wed, 9/12/12, Ahmed <f16ftrplt@aol.com> wrote:
From: Ahmed <f16ftrplt@aol.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Changes ?
I am helping a good friend who just bought a Nanchang and is trying to get
his Operating Limitations and Airworthiness certificate re issued.
He called our FSDO and the inspector told him that EVERY THING has been cha
nged as of this July and now he asking for a maintenance program letter and
copies of the previous 2 Annual inspections. Additionally, he said that a
statement that he is responsible for the operation and maintenance of the a
ircraft must be in the program letter as well as a statement of who is goin
g to be the PIC.
Does any one know about these changes and a good DAR in Ga?
Med
S WEB FORUMS -
on Web Site -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 9
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Hi Doug
Did you ever find any main tires that
can be re-tread?
Doug Zeissner
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 12, 2012, at 11:48 AM, doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com> wrote:
> CJ drivers,
> I have been asked to make another run of CJ wing jack sets.
> This run will consist of:
> 12 each stub wing jacks
> 6 each engine support jacks
> 6 each tail jack support jack stands
>
> At this writing 2 of the 6 sets are spoken for. If you have an interest p
lease contact me off line.
>
> Because of steel costs, labor costs, old age and a very bad back I am sure
that this one will be my last production run of CJ jacks.
>
> Best to all from Omak,
> Doug Sapp
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 10
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I sent the following to the list with the Deviation to Order attached, but
my email was rejected by the list because the attached pdf was too large.
=C2-Please feel free to contact me and I will email you the Deviation to
Order, or you can contact EAA for a copy.
Here is my rejected reply:
Your FSDO is wrong; see the attached Deviation to Order that EAA Warbird se
nt me.
Prior to FAA=99s issuance of the Deviation to Order, certification of
experimental exhibition category aircrafts was governed by FAA Order 8130.
2G which provided the local FSDO having the power to require reissuance of
the aircraft=99s special airworthiness certificate and operating limi
tations upon transfer of ownership or change of home base. See FAA Order 81
30.2G, Chang 1, Section 10, Paragraph 4107c(2).=C2-However, the Deviation
to Order limits the power of local FSDO to require reissuance.=C2- Under
the revised Paragraph 4107c(2) of the Deviation to Order, local FSDO will
not require reissuance unless the aircraft is in Phase I testing, or FAA He
adquarters determines that reissuance is required, or the owner requests re
issuance. See the Deviation to Order, Section 10, Paragraph 4107c(2).
EAA saved me from weeks of downtime and hundreds if not thousands to pay DA
R.
Robin Hou
--- On Wed, 9/12/12, Ahmed <f16ftrplt@aol.com> wrote:
From: Ahmed <f16ftrplt@aol.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Changes ?
I am helping a good friend who just bought a Nanchang and is trying to get
his Operating Limitations and Airworthiness certificate re issued.
He called our FSDO and the inspector told him that EVERY THING has been cha
nged as of this July and now he asking for a maintenance program letter and
copies of the previous 2 Annual inspections. Additionally, he said that a
statement that he is responsible for the operation and maintenance of the a
ircraft must be in the program letter as well as a statement of who is goin
g to be the PIC.
Does any one know about these changes and a good DAR in Ga?
Med
S WEB FORUMS -
on Web Site -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 11
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If your friend is a member of EAA and Warbirds of America (if not, he
definitely should be), contact the EAA government affairs group and
explain the situation to them. I seriously doubt the FSDO inspector's
remarks are accurate. Since this is effectively a re-write of the the
existing OL's to the latest FAA Order. the FSDO does not have deal with
all the nuances related to the initial certification, like Phase 1
flight testing etc.
The latest Order is FAA Order 8130.2G with Change 1. Change 1 was issued
on 7/02/2012. Change 1 is pertinent to Light Sport Aircraft ONLY.
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/8130.2G%20.pdf. The
original release of 8130.2G was issued on August 31, 2010. Therefore,
the July date the Inspector gave you is not relevant to Experimental
EXHIBITION and Group 2 aircraft which is covered in Section 10, UNLESS
he can show you by 'chapter and verse' what changes were issued in July
of 2012 that are pertinent to Group 2 aircraft. The Group the CJ fits in
to is Group 2. The following paragraphs pertain to Group 2 aircraft and
are pertinent to this discussion.
/4110. Groups of Aircraft. Aircraft eligible for experimental
airworthiness certification are//
//divided into seven groups. This was done in order to establish
standardized operating limitations//
//and inspection requirements. Operating limitations for each group are
provided in//
//paragraph 4113 of this order.//
//
//(f) Must be in compliance with the _*manufacturers*_ or country of
origins//
//maintenance, and/or inspection programs //_*(if
provided)*_//.//_*(NOTE - IF PROVIDED MEANS IF ORIGINALLY PROVIDED BY
THE MANUFACTURE. SINCE THIS WAS NEVER PROVIDED, IT IS NOT RELEVANT)*_
//(g) If the manufacturer or country of origin does not provide an
inspection//
//program, the aircraft must have an annual condition inspection that
meets the scope and detail of//
//14 CFR part 43, appendix D.//
//(h) The aircraft must be in full compliance with _*manufacturers*_ or
country of origin//
//life limits //*_(if specified)_*//./ _/*(NOTE-IF SPECIFIED MEANS IF
ORIGINALLY SPECIFIED BY THE MANUFACTURE, WHICH IS NEVER WAS. THEREFORE
THIS IS ALSO NOT RELEVANT)*/_
/(2) Type of Aircraft. Examples of aircraft that could operate under
this group include,//
//but are not limited to, aircraft such as the //_*Yak-52;*_//SU-31;
SIAI-Marchetti S.M.1019, AN-2; all//
//single-engine piston-powered WWII fighters; and small helicopters./
/4113. Issuance of Experimental Exhibition and Air Racing Operating
Limitations.//
//a. Operating limitations. The FAA may impose any additional
limitations deemed//
//necessary in the interest of safety, only after coordination with
AFS-800 and AIR-200. The FAA//
//must review each imposed operating limitation with the applicant to
ensure that the operating//
//limitations are understood by the applicant./
Look at the table just below Paragraph 4113. It states which specific
paragraphs are required for each group of aircraft. Look at the ones
required for Group 2.
Regarding the Annual Program Letter, this is the exact paragraph that
must be in the OL's. No where does it say the NAME of the PIC must be
included in the Program Letter. Ask the FSDO inspector to show you by
'chapter and verse' where it says that.
/(3) The owner operator must submit an annual program letter to the
geographically//
//responsible FSDO where the aircraft is based. All operations must be
conducted in accordance//
//with these limitations and the program letter. A copy of the current
program letter and any//
//amendments must be carried on board the aircraft any time that the
aircraft is being operated.//
//The program letter must include the following information://
//(a) The aircrafts home base.//
//(b) The name of the person responsible for the operation and
maintenance of the//
//aircraft.//
//(c) A list of events at which the aircraft will be exhibited (the list
may be amended//
//as necessary).//
//(d) For Group 6 and Group 7 aircraft, the proficiency area. The
proficiency area//
//may be depicted using a map or it may be described by geographic
landmarks, airports, or aids to//
//navigation.//
/
/(4) The pilot in command of this aircraft must hold an appropriate
category and class////rating./
With regards to an approved inspection program, limitation no. 29 and 30
clearly state ALL LARGE AIRPLANES etc. The CJ is definitely not
considered a 'large' airplane. Large airplanes AS DEFINED IN THIS ORDER
ARE AIRCRAFT OVER 12,500 POUNDS. See paragraph 4110 for the definition.
/*(note-there has never been a required inspection program for the CJ) */
(/29) _*All large airplanes*_, turbojet airplanes,
turbopropeller-powered multiengine//
//airplanes, or turbine-powered rotorcraft must be maintained in with
accordance an//
//FAA-approved inspection program meeting the scope and content as
described in 14 CFR //
//91.409(f). Completion of these inspections must be recorded in the
aircraft maintenance records.//
//(30) Inspections for _*all large airplanes*_, turbojet airplanes,
turbopropeller-powered//
//multiengine airplanes, and turbine-powered rotorcraft must be recorded
in the aircraft//
//maintenance records showing the following, or a similarly worded,
statement: I certify that this//
//aircraft has been inspected on [insert date] in accordance with the
scope and detail of [identify//
//applicable inspection program] and found to be in a condition for safe
operation.//
/*This paragraph is important.....*/*
*(37) When an aircrafts home base is changed or there is a transfer of
ownership, the
new owner/operator will take any or all of the following actions within
30 days:
(a) Submit a new program letter to the geographically responsible FSDO.
(b)*_If_ an approved inspection program is specified in these operating
limitations, *
submit a copy to the geographically responsible FSDO. The gaining FSDO
will not change the
previously approved program unless it can be substantiated that the
previously approved program
no longer meets FAA requirements.
(c) The gaining FSDO will not require the aircrafts airworthiness
certificate or
operating limitations to be reissued, unless the aircraft requires Phase
I test flight operations.
/I hope this helps somewhat.
Dennis
/*
*/
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 9/12/2012 1:15 PM, Ahmed wrote:
>
> I am helping a good friend who just bought a Nanchang and is trying to get his
Operating Limitations and Airworthiness certificate re issued.
>
> He called our FSDO and the inspector told him that EVERY THING has been changed
as of this July and now he asking for a maintenance program letter and copies
of the previous 2 Annual inspections. Additionally, he said that a statement
that he is responsible for the operation and maintenance of the aircraft must
be in the program letter as well as a statement of who is going to be the PIC.
>
> Does any one know about these changes and a good DAR in Ga?
>
> Med
>
>
Message 12
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|
Excellent Robin...this only adds fuel to the fire which I pointed out in
my reply.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 9/12/2012 2:09 PM, Robin Hou wrote:
> Your FSDO is wrong; see the attached Deviation to Order that EAA
> Warbird sent me.
>
> Prior to FAAs issuance of the Deviation to Order, certification of
> experimental exhibition category aircrafts was governed by FAA Order
> 8130.2G which provided the local FSDO having the power to require
> reissuance of the aircrafts special airworthiness certificate and
> operating limitations upon transfer of ownership or change of home
> base. See FAA Order 8130.2G, Chang 1, Section 10, Paragraph 4107c(2).
>
> However, the Deviation to Order limits the power of local FSDO to
> require reissuance. Under the revised Paragraph 4107c(2) of the
> Deviation to Order, local FSDO will not require reissuance unless the
> aircraft is in Phase I testing, or FAA Headquarters determines that
> reissuance is required, or the owner requests reissuance. See the
> Deviation to Order, Section 10, Paragraph 4107c(2).
>
>
> EAA saved me from weeks of downtime and hundreds if not thousands to
> pay DAR.
>
>
> Email me off line if you want a copy of my program letter.
>
>
> Robin
>
>
> --- On Wed, 9/12/12, Ahmed <f16ftrplt@aol.com> wrote:
>
> From: Ahmed <f16ftrplt@aol.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Changes ?
> To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Wednesday, September 12, 2012, 11:15 AM
>
>
> I am helping a good friend who just bought a Nanchang and is trying to
> get his Operating Limitations and Airworthiness certificate re issued.
>
> He called our FSDO and the inspector told him that EVERY THING has
> been changed as of this July and now he asking for a maintenance
> program letter and copies of the previous 2 Annual inspections.
> Additionally, he said that a statement that he is responsible for the
> operation and maintenance of the aircraft must be in the program
> letter as well as a statement of who is going to be the PIC.
>
> Does any one know about these changes and a good DAR in Ga?
>
> Med<====================
> < many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
>
Message 13
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I got it!
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 9/12/2012 3:07 PM, Robin Hou wrote:
> I sent the following to the list with the Deviation to Order attached,
> but my email was rejected by the list because the attached pdf was too
> large. Please feel free to contact me and I will email you the
> Deviation to Order, or you can contact EAA for a copy.
>
> Here is my rejected reply:
>
> Your FSDO is wrong; see the attached Deviation to Order that EAA
> Warbird sent me.
>
> Prior to FAAs issuance of the Deviation to Order, certification of
> experimental exhibition category aircrafts was governed by FAA Order
> 8130.2G which provided the local FSDO having the power to require
> reissuance of the aircrafts special airworthiness certificate and
> operating limitations upon transfer of ownership or change of home
> base. See FAA Order 8130.2G, Chang 1, Section 10, Paragraph 4107c(2).
>
> However, the Deviation to Order limits the power of local FSDO to
> require reissuance. Under the revised Paragraph 4107c(2) of the
> Deviation to Order, local FSDO will not require reissuance unless the
> aircraft is in Phase I testing, or FAA Headquarters determines that
> reissuance is required, or the owner requests reissuance. See the
> Deviation to Order, Section 10, Paragraph 4107c(2).
>
>
> EAA saved me from weeks of downtime and hundreds if not thousands to
> pay DAR.
>
>
> Robin Hou
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 9/12/12, Ahmed /<f16ftrplt@aol.com>/*wrote:
>
>
> From: Ahmed <f16ftrplt@aol.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Changes ?
> To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Wednesday, September 12, 2012, 11:15 AM
>
> </mc/compose?to=f16ftrplt@aol.com>>
>
> I am helping a good friend who just bought a Nanchang and is
> trying to get his Operating Limitations and Airworthiness
> certificate re issued.
>
> He called our FSDO and the inspector told him that EVERY THING has
> been changed as of this July and now he asking for a maintenance
> program letter and copies of the previous 2 Annual inspections.
> Additionally, he said that a statement that he is responsible for
> the operation and maintenance of the aircraft must be in the
> program letter as well as a statement of who is going to be the PIC.
>
> Does any one know about these changes and a good DAR in Ga?
>
> Med
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution===========
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Interesting scenario |
Hey Mark,
We can hold our stick with either hand. Why yes "we Air Force Weenies" Are ambidextrous.
We can play with stick or the longer stick with either Rosie palm.
;^))
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 12, 2012, at 1:32 PM, Didier BLOUZARD <didier.blouzard@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Don't word of tour Life dpend on it you will do it !
> I have no doubt left hand, right hand, right foot, left foot, tongue anything
would do it for life!!!
>
> Enjoy.....
>
> Didier Blouzard
> +33(0)6 5184 4802
>
> Le 12 sept. 2012 17:53, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
a crit :
>
>>
>> Probably a good idea to drop this one Doc..... you can have the parting shot.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:41 AM
>> To: 'yak-list@matronics.com'
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>>
>> I already have. I just offer the task to some Air Force weenie...
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:16 AM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Interesting scenario
>>
>>
>> You are a Marine...adapt.
>> Doc
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>> Sent: Sep 12, 2012 6:31 AM
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
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