Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:55 AM - Ditching a Nanchang "Part II" (Elmar & Manuela Hegenauer)
2. 05:45 AM - Re: Ditching a Nanchang "Part II" (Jay Land)
3. 07:49 AM - Re: Ditching a Nanchang "Part II" (Mark Davis)
4. 07:56 AM - Re: Ditching a Nanchang "Part II" (Richard Hess)
5. 08:00 AM - Re: Ditching a Nanchang "Part II" (Warren Hill)
6. 09:34 AM - Re: Ditching a Nanchang "Part II" (Roger Kemp M.D.)
7. 09:37 AM - Re: Ditching a Nanchang "Part II" (Larry Pine)
8. 02:02 PM - Re: Ditching a Nanchang "Part II" (ChangDriver)
9. 04:24 PM - Re: Ditching a Nanchang "Part II" (Adrian Coop Cooper)
10. 05:30 PM - Re: Re: Ditching a Nanchang "Part II" (Roger Kemp M.D.)
11. 11:09 PM - Hose replacement Yak 52 (CHRIS ABBOTT)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Ditching a Nanchang "Part II" |
A few weeks ago a good friend of mine
had an engine failure over the Strait of
Georgia. His aircraft was a RV-6 style
homebuilt with fixed conventional undercarriage.
According to some witnesses on shore he did
everything perfectly right and his aircraft
did not flip over. Both occupants got out
in time and the plane sank very quickly
to the bottom of the ocean at around 300 feet.
Still they had to spend 25 minutes in the cold
water until they got finally rescued.
Now here come some questions:
In the case the CJ engine quits over open water
what would be the safest landing configuration?
a) canopies open or closed?
b) gills open or closed?
c) oil-cooler open or closed?
d) flap up or down?
e) should the tail touch the water first or the belly?
f) any other ideas or thoughts?
Your input on this matter is highly appreciated.
cheers
Elmar
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Ditching a Nanchang "Part II" |
A parachute!
Thanks, Jay
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 6, 2012, at 4:03 AM, "Elmar & Manuela Hegenauer" <samira.h@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> what would be the safest landing configuration?
Message 3
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| Subject: | Ditching a Nanchang "Part II" |
As I recall my Dilbert Dunker training, the Navy would recommend canopy
open. I don't recall anything about flaps but I would think flaps up would
allow a little more nose up attitude on touchdown to allow a better chance
of the airplane skipping a time or two before the nose has the opportunity
to dig in. Gills open or closed doesn't matter. The first impact will wipe
them out like toothpicks. Tighten your harness, get rid of your headset,
kneeboards, other potential cockpit FOD, put your left hand on the canopy
bow or some other place to help brace yourself for the impact. If the
airplane flips over, wait until the bubble subside, release your harness and
head for the light. If you're lucky enough to do it at night, swim clear,
cup your hands over your mouth, exhale and follow the bubbles.
Mark Davis
Dilbert Dunker Survivor
9D5 Multiplace Simulator Trainer (Don't call it a helo dunker at least in
front of one former Vietnam POW who went nuts when I referred to it as such)
Survivor
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Elmar & Manuela
Hegenauer
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 2:51 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Ditching a Nanchang "Part II"
--> <samira.h@shaw.ca>
A few weeks ago a good friend of mine
had an engine failure over the Strait of Georgia. His aircraft was a RV-6
style homebuilt with fixed conventional undercarriage.
According to some witnesses on shore he did everything perfectly right and
his aircraft did not flip over. Both occupants got out in time and the plane
sank very quickly to the bottom of the ocean at around 300 feet.
Still they had to spend 25 minutes in the cold water until they got finally
rescued.
Now here come some questions:
In the case the CJ engine quits over open water what would be the safest
landing configuration?
a) canopies open or closed?
b) gills open or closed?
c) oil-cooler open or closed?
d) flap up or down?
e) should the tail touch the water first or the belly?
f) any other ideas or thoughts?
Your input on this matter is highly appreciated.
cheers
Elmar
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Ditching a Nanchang "Part II" |
I would put the flaps down to allow for a slower approach speed. E=MC squared
:-))
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 6, 2012, at 9:47 AM, "Mark Davis" <markdavis@wbsnet.org> wrote:
>
> As I recall my Dilbert Dunker training, the Navy would recommend canopy
> open. I don't recall anything about flaps but I would think flaps up would
> allow a little more nose up attitude on touchdown to allow a better chance
> of the airplane skipping a time or two before the nose has the opportunity
> to dig in. Gills open or closed doesn't matter. The first impact will wipe
> them out like toothpicks. Tighten your harness, get rid of your headset,
> kneeboards, other potential cockpit FOD, put your left hand on the canopy
> bow or some other place to help brace yourself for the impact. If the
> airplane flips over, wait until the bubble subside, release your harness and
> head for the light. If you're lucky enough to do it at night, swim clear,
> cup your hands over your mouth, exhale and follow the bubbles.
>
> Mark Davis
> Dilbert Dunker Survivor
> 9D5 Multiplace Simulator Trainer (Don't call it a helo dunker at least in
> front of one former Vietnam POW who went nuts when I referred to it as such)
> Survivor
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Elmar & Manuela
> Hegenauer
> Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 2:51 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Ditching a Nanchang "Part II"
>
> --> <samira.h@shaw.ca>
>
> A few weeks ago a good friend of mine
> had an engine failure over the Strait of Georgia. His aircraft was a RV-6
> style homebuilt with fixed conventional undercarriage.
>
> According to some witnesses on shore he did everything perfectly right and
> his aircraft did not flip over. Both occupants got out in time and the plane
> sank very quickly to the bottom of the ocean at around 300 feet.
> Still they had to spend 25 minutes in the cold water until they got finally
> rescued.
>
> Now here come some questions:
>
> In the case the CJ engine quits over open water what would be the safest
> landing configuration?
>
> a) canopies open or closed?
>
> b) gills open or closed?
>
> c) oil-cooler open or closed?
>
> d) flap up or down?
>
> e) should the tail touch the water first or the belly?
>
> f) any other ideas or thoughts?
>
>
> Your input on this matter is highly appreciated.
>
> cheers
>
> Elmar
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Ditching a Nanchang "Part II" |
F= MA
;-)
On Oct 6, 2012, at 7:53 AM, Richard Hess wrote:
>
> I would put the flaps down to allow for a slower approach speed. E=MC squared
>
> :-))
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 6, 2012, at 9:47 AM, "Mark Davis" <markdavis@wbsnet.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> As I recall my Dilbert Dunker training, the Navy would recommend canopy
>> open. I don't recall anything about flaps but I would think flaps up would
>> allow a little more nose up attitude on touchdown to allow a better chance
>> of the airplane skipping a time or two before the nose has the opportunity
>> to dig in. Gills open or closed doesn't matter. The first impact will wipe
>> them out like toothpicks. Tighten your harness, get rid of your headset,
>> kneeboards, other potential cockpit FOD, put your left hand on the canopy
>> bow or some other place to help brace yourself for the impact. If the
>> airplane flips over, wait until the bubble subside, release your harness and
>> head for the light. If you're lucky enough to do it at night, swim clear,
>> cup your hands over your mouth, exhale and follow the bubbles.
>>
>> Mark Davis
>> Dilbert Dunker Survivor
>> 9D5 Multiplace Simulator Trainer (Don't call it a helo dunker at least in
>> front of one former Vietnam POW who went nuts when I referred to it as such)
>> Survivor
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Elmar & Manuela
>> Hegenauer
>> Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2012 2:51 AM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Yak-List: Ditching a Nanchang "Part II"
>>
>> --> <samira.h@shaw.ca>
>>
>> A few weeks ago a good friend of mine
>> had an engine failure over the Strait of Georgia. His aircraft was a RV-6
>> style homebuilt with fixed conventional undercarriage.
>>
>> According to some witnesses on shore he did everything perfectly right and
>> his aircraft did not flip over. Both occupants got out in time and the plane
>> sank very quickly to the bottom of the ocean at around 300 feet.
>> Still they had to spend 25 minutes in the cold water until they got finally
>> rescued.
>>
>> Now here come some questions:
>>
>> In the case the CJ engine quits over open water what would be the safest
>> landing configuration?
>>
>> a) canopies open or closed?
>>
>> b) gills open or closed?
>>
>> c) oil-cooler open or closed?
>>
>> d) flap up or down?
>>
>> e) should the tail touch the water first or the belly?
>>
>> f) any other ideas or thoughts?
>>
>>
>> Your input on this matter is highly appreciated.
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> Elmar
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Ditching a Nanchang "Part II" |
As Jay Said if altitude permits otherwise gear up on rough terrain. Ie. anything
other than prepared runway surface grass or pavement. Pastures, plowed field
with or without terraces you just don't know if the surface is free or gofer
holes and is it soft or firm. Dig the nose wheel in and You better hope you have
a roll bar.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 6, 2012, at 7:42 AM, "Jay Land" <jland@popeandland.com> wrote:
>
> A parachute!
>
> Thanks, Jay
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 6, 2012, at 4:03 AM, "Elmar & Manuela Hegenauer" <samira.h@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>>
>> what would be the safest landing configuration?
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Ditching a Nanchang "Part II" |
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Ditching a Nanchang "Part II" |
What did Sully do in the Hudson?
The gills will go but I'd open them. The oil cooler door does not matter. I'd
leave flaps and all up. Canopy open. Fod tossed out on way down. Helmet secured.
Comm cable unplugged. If time, I'd get out of the parachute too and just
strap in with the harness. Once out activate the life vest I'm sure you are
wearing to fly over water!
Chang Driver
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384804#384804
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Ditching a Nanchang "Part II" |
Hi Elmar.
That is a very good question for those of us living in British Columbia and the
Pacific Northwest. I met your friend a couple of weeks ago within days of his
Ditching. I was dismayed to hear that his passenger got out of the cockpit okay
but got his foot trapped in the wing where the fixed gear had ripped a panel
out of the upper wing. Fortunately he was able to dislodge the foot moments
before the plane (a modified Zeniar I believe) sank. Which causes me to reiterate
previously mentioned items. Strap in very tightly, jettison all FOD and any
cables that could trap you, ie headset/helmet/iPad etc cables. Unplug audio
as soon as you have broadcast your May Day, briefed your passenger and Squawked
7700. Yes, open the canopy and brace yourself on the canopy bow, one hand on
the bow and the other on the stick, feet off the rudder pedals at the last moment.
Lock the canopy open so it doesn't try to close on impact. Gear up for sure.
I would leave the flaps up but probably close the oil door.
Meanwhile, sign up for Brian Webster's ("Bri the Dunker Guy") course. One of the
best courses I have ever taken. Bryan's course covers underwater egress and
puts you in a mock up cockpit which is shot into the water and rigged to flip
over upside down. Very, very real. Don't worry, he has divers in the water to
assist if needed.
On the question of Parachutes, even though I have hundreds of Sky Dives, I am not
sure that is a very good option over the water, unless you are on fire or important
bits are falling off. If you do decide to jump, cut away as soon as you
enter the water and swim away carefully so as not to get caught in the lines,
carry a knife. If you are fortunate enough to bring the plane to a gentle stop
on the surface, discard the parachute rig as soon as you climb out onto the
wing. They can absorb a very large amount of water and pull you under. Remember
not to inflate your PFD until out of the plane - especially if you do cartwheel.
You don't want any buoyancy until you are clear of the plane. It's hard
to get out of an upside down cockpit with an inflated PFD which wants to push
you back into the plane.
Should you have to ditch, hope for smooth water, otherwise all my Airline courses
emphasize alighting between the troughs. Preferable behind the crest of a wave.
As I suggested, take the Underwater Egress Training course.
Best regards and try to keep your feet dry.
Coop
--------
Coop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384810#384810
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Ditching a Nanchang "Part II" |
Good post Coop. Might put my hands on the belt release. Hands up on the canopy
bow may lose fingers if the canopy releases and slams forward. A canopy breaker
tool would be handy too! a waterman with the plyers tip sharpened to a point
will work to break the plexiglass if the canopy jams closed.
Sorry did see your first post about this being a water ditching. If you bailout
over water inflate your LPU manually before entering the water. Unless you have
a water activated LPU. Don't panic if the chute comes down on top of you. Don't
kick your legs because you will tangle them in the risers. Grab a seam and
just over hand crawl along the seam until you get to the edge of the canopy.
Then cut yourself free of risers and let the chute float and sink away.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 6, 2012, at 6:22 PM, "Adrian Coop Cooper" <cooperairracing@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Elmar.
> That is a very good question for those of us living in British Columbia and the
Pacific Northwest. I met your friend a couple of weeks ago within days of his
Ditching. I was dismayed to hear that his passenger got out of the cockpit
okay but got his foot trapped in the wing where the fixed gear had ripped a panel
out of the upper wing. Fortunately he was able to dislodge the foot moments
before the plane (a modified Zeniar I believe) sank. Which causes me to reiterate
previously mentioned items. Strap in very tightly, jettison all FOD and
any cables that could trap you, ie headset/helmet/iPad etc cables. Unplug audio
as soon as you have broadcast your May Day, briefed your passenger and Squawked
7700. Yes, open the canopy and brace yourself on the canopy bow, one hand
on the bow and the other on the stick, feet off the rudder pedals at the last
moment. Lock the canopy open so it doesn't try to close on impact. Gear up for
sure. I would leave the flaps up but probably close t!
> he oil door.
> Meanwhile, sign up for Brian Webster's ("Bri the Dunker Guy") course. One of
the best courses I have ever taken. Bryan's course covers underwater egress and
puts you in a mock up cockpit which is shot into the water and rigged to flip
over upside down. Very, very real. Don't worry, he has divers in the water to
assist if needed.
> On the question of Parachutes, even though I have hundreds of Sky Dives, I am
not sure that is a very good option over the water, unless you are on fire or
important bits are falling off. If you do decide to jump, cut away as soon as
you enter the water and swim away carefully so as not to get caught in the lines,
carry a knife. If you are fortunate enough to bring the plane to a gentle
stop on the surface, discard the parachute rig as soon as you climb out onto
the wing. They can absorb a very large amount of water and pull you under. Remember
not to inflate your PFD until out of the plane - especially if you do cartwheel.
You don't want any buoyancy until you are clear of the plane. It's hard
to get out of an upside down cockpit with an inflated PFD which wants to push
you back into the plane.
> Should you have to ditch, hope for smooth water, otherwise all my Airline courses
emphasize alighting between the troughs. Preferable behind the crest of a
wave. As I suggested, take the Underwater Egress Training course.
> Best regards and try to keep your feet dry.
> Coop
>
> --------
> Coop
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384810#384810
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Hose replacement Yak 52 |
Does anyone know the best deal on hose replacement or can the hose be purchased
to enable me to get done in Aussie ?
Thank you,
CHRIS ABBOTT
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