Today's Message Index:
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1. 09:53 AM - Re: CJ starting/mag drop issues (Gill Gutierrez)
2. 01:17 PM - Re: CJ starting/mag drop issues (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 05:45 PM - Re: CJ starting/mag drop issues (\)
4. 09:11 PM - V530 props with composite blades (Walt Murphy)
Message 1
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| Subject: | CJ starting/mag drop issues |
1) Make sure both mags have the same advance.
2) We had a plugged primer nozzle that caused similar problem.
Gill
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay McIntyre
Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 4:12 PM
Subject: Yak-List: CJ starting/mag drop issues
Hi all.
Had a CJ through for an annual recently and we noticed a couple of
irregularities which we have not been able to rectify as yet...
1) #1 mag exhibits a constant mag drop throughout all RPM ranges of about
100 RPM and nearly stops at idle.
Initially we focussed on the mag drop as although not alot, something was
not quite right. We changed the plugs for new items (no effect); retimed the
mag (no effect); changed the coil (no effect); and somewhat grasping at
straws, changed the mags from side to side.
This seemed to fix the fault and the owner took the aircraft away but the
fault seems to have returned. Any ideas out there? We are thinking it must
be a plug lead. I know many of you have experienced plug lead woes in the
past but in 15 years of operating CJ's in a dry environment I have never had
a problem before. (aircraft has standard factory harness and leads but is
operated in a wetter environment than I am used to).
2) Aircraft can be hard to start. Intitally we thought this was related to
the mag problem but it seems to be more fuel related. Initally after the
annual I could not get it started and thought it was the part-worn set of
plugs we had just installed. I swapped them out for the old plugs with no
effect and then realised the aircraft had been parked on a slope for some
hours with minimal fuel in it... turned the aircraft 180 degrees and sure
enough she started first go.... a-ha - must have been no fuel to carb I
thought....
Alas no.... still exhibits hard starting from time to time.... will turn and
turn with no sign of life and then exhibit quite a violent ignition event on
one or two cylinders. Sometimes it seems it is over-primed (lots of fuel out
of the manifold drain) but other times under-primed. Other times it will
start happily and repeatedly. Engine being cold or at operating temp does
not seem to matter.
As seen above mag timing has been checked. Additionally we have checked
shower of sparks (OK) and primer line (OK) but are a bit lost as to where to
go now. Next step might be to pull the primer atomiser from the blower case
and check it is not blocked/damaged.
Perhaps the two symptoms are related - perhaps not?
Any ideas/help on this gratefully accepted!
Regards, Jay
New Zealand
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: CJ starting/mag drop issues |
A couple of thoughts.
- First, have you removed the starting coil wire from the left magneto
and tested it to ground to see if it is actually producing a solid
spark? It should be able to jump about 3/8" to ground. You will need
someone in the cockpit to assist. Be sure to deplete all the air in the
system forward of the main air valve (make sure the air is off) by
squeezing the brake lever until no "woosh" sound can be heard. Have the
person on the ground hold the starting coil wire about 3/8" or so from
ground using a pair of insulated pliers. Be sure to hold the insulated
part of the pliers only. Or you can position the starting coil wire so
it is about 3/8" from ground. Then turn on the Battery and the
Ignition switches. Have the person in the cockpit press the START
button. The starting coil wire should easily jump from the wire to
ground. The engine will not rotate because you have depleted the air
forward of the main air valve. If the starting coil wire does not arc
to ground, you should check the points in the starting coil AND possibly
replace the starting coil wire.
The starting coil wire very often deteriorates and cracks. Thus when
the start button is pressed, the spark from the starting coil will never
make it to the magneto cap because it is arcing to ground inside the
braided shield. This is a very common problem.
- While you have the magneto cover and cap off on the left side, do
check the point gap. It should be .25 to .35 mm or .0010 to .0014.
Ideally the point gap should be .3 mm or .0012. If you must adjust the
point gap on either or both mags, you must go back and check the
timing. I'm sure you already know the mag timing is based on the number
stamped in the mag cover mating surface and correlated to the Housai
timing chart. If both mags have the same number stamped on them, the
mags can be synchronized. If the numbers do not match, the mags can not
be synchronized and set to its own specified timing.
If you need an illustration of how to set the points or even the fine
timing adjustment, let me know and I will send you the illustration.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 4/6/2013 6:11 PM, Jay McIntyre wrote:
> Hi all.
> Had a CJ through for an annual recently and we noticed a couple of
> irregularities which we have not been able to rectify as yet...
> 1) #1 mag exhibits a constant mag drop throughout all RPM ranges of
> about 100 RPM and nearly stops at idle.
> Initially we focussed on the mag drop as although not alot, something
> was not quite right. We changed the plugs for new items (no effect);
> retimed the mag (no effect); changed the coil (no effect); and
> somewhat grasping at straws, changed the mags from side to side.
> This seemed to fix the fault and the owner took the aircraft away but
> the fault seems to have returned. Any ideas out there? We are thinking
> it must be a plug lead. I know many of you have experienced plug lead
> woes in the past but in 15 years of operating CJ's in a dry
> environment I have never had a problem before. (aircraft has standard
> factory harness and leads but is operated in a wetter environment than
> I am used to).
> 2) Aircraft can be hard to start. Intitally we thought this was
> related to the mag problem but it seems to be more fuel related.
> Initally after the annual I could not get it started and thought it
> was the part-worn set of plugs we had just installed. I swapped them
> out for the old plugs with no effect and then realised the aircraft
> had been parked on a slope for some hours with minimal fuel in it...
> turned the aircraft 180 degrees and sure enough she started first
> go.... a-ha - must have been no fuel to carb I thought....
> Alas no.... still exhibits hard starting from time to time.... will
> turn and turn with no sign of life and then exhibit quite a violent
> ignition event on one or two cylinders. Sometimes it seems it is
> over-primed (lots of fuel out of the manifold drain) but other times
> under-primed. Other times it will start happily and repeatedly. Engine
> being cold or at operating temp does not seem to matter.
> As seen above mag timing has been checked. Additionally we have
> checked shower of sparks (OK) and primer line (OK) but are a bit lost
> as to where to go now. Next step might be to pull the primer atomiser
> from the blower case and check it is not blocked/damaged.
> Perhaps the two symptoms are related - perhaps not?
> Any ideas/help on this gratefully accepted!
>
> Regards, Jay
> New Zealand
> *
>
>
> *
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: CJ starting/mag drop issues |
This is a good idea. Pappy
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Stelwagon <pfstelwagon@earthlink.net>
Sent: Sat, Apr 6, 2013 04:25 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: CJ starting/mag drop issues
1.? Go with the auto plug conversion!!? The originalplug leads are old and
not great to begin with.2.? Remove the primer line at the engine fitting, p
ut itin a container and work the primer.? Saw a CJ with a cracked line on t
hesuction side of the primer, made a great air pump but no fuel.? Had thesa
me starting problems.FrankCJ6-A----- Original Message -----From:JayMcIntyre
ting/mag dropissuesHi all.Had a CJ through for an annual recently and we no
ticed a couple ofirregularities which we have not been able to rectify as y
et...1) #1 mag exhibits a constant mag drop throughout all RPM ranges of ab
out100 RPM and nearly stops at idle.Initially we focussed on the mag drop a
s although not alot, something wasnot quite right. We changed the plugs for
new items (no effect); retimed themag (no effect); changed the coil (no ef
fect); and somewhat grasping atstraws, changed the mags from side to side.T
his seemed to fix the fault and the owner took the aircraft away but thefau
lt seems to have returned. Any ideas out there? We are thinking it must bea
plug lead.? I know many of you have experienced plug lead woes in thepast
but in 15 years of operating CJ's in a dry environment I have never had apr
oblem before. (aircraft has standard factory harness and leads but isoperat
ed in a wetter environment than I am used to).2) Aircraft can be hard to st
art. Intitally we thought this was relatedto the mag problem but it seems t
o be more fuel related. Initally after theannual I could not get it started
and thought it was the part-worn set ofplugs we had just installed. I swap
ped them out for the old plugs with noeffect and then realised the aircraft
had been parked on a slope for somehours with minimal fuel in it... turned
the aircraft 180 degrees and sureenough she started first go.... a-ha - mu
st have been no fuel to carb Ithought....Alas no.... still exhibits hard st
arting from time to time.... will turnand turn with no sign of life and the
n exhibit quite a violent ignition eventon one or two cylinders. Sometimes
it seems it is over-primed (lots of fuelout of the manifold drain) but?othe
r times under-primed. Other times itwill start happily and repeatedly. Engi
ne being cold or at operating temp doesnot seem to matter.As seen above mag
timing has been checked. Additionally we have checkedshower of sparks (OK)
and primer line (OK) but are a bit lost as to where togo now. Next step mi
ght be to pull the primer atomiser from the?blowercase and check it is not
blocked/damaged.Perhaps the two symptoms are related - perhaps not?Any idea
s/help onthis gratefully accepted!Regards, JayNew Zealandhref="http://www
.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-L
isthref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="
==============
Message 4
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| Subject: | V530 props with composite blades |
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