Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:30 AM - Re: Hydraulic Lock (Mozam)
2. 07:10 AM - Re: Re: Hydraulic Lock (Genzlinger, Reade)
3. 07:39 AM - Re: Re: Hydraulic Lock (Richard Goode)
4. 07:53 AM - Re: Engine is making aluminum (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
5. 10:31 AM - Re: Engine is making aluminum (Bill vH)
6. 11:11 AM - Re: Re: Engine is making aluminum (Roger Kemp)
7. 11:22 AM - Re: Re: Hydraulic Lock (Herb Coussons)
8. 11:37 AM - Re: Re: Engine is making aluminum (Bradly Banks)
9. 11:58 AM - Re: Re: Hydraulic Lock (Genzlinger, Reade)
10. 07:04 PM - Re: Re: Engine is making aluminum (Roger Kemp M.D.)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic Lock |
A couple years ago I watched as one of our NE guys tried to make a left turn onto
a taxiway in his -52TD just as his right brake froze up. The nose went over,
with a high power setting, and the prop hit the pavement.
The last 12 inches or so of every blade was reduced to a million splinters in about
one second! (Hence, his new callsign.) A broom and dustpan was used to sweep
up what used to be three prop blades.
I don't believe the engine was damaged at all.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399593#399593
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic Lock |
This is true - it was an amazing shower of sawdust! It did not tip up
very fast - it was a slow motion kind of thing which meant that I knew
exactly what was about to happen even with stick full aft and pulling
the power. We tore down the nose case and had the components tested
however they needed to be tested and nothing was out of order. We had
other tests done that were either prescribed in the manuals or deemed
appropriate for the situation. Results were all nominal. We put it
back together and that was probably 200 hours ago.
Splinter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mozam
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 8:28 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Hydraulic Lock
A couple years ago I watched as one of our NE guys tried to make a left
turn onto a taxiway in his -52TD just as his right brake froze up. The
nose went over, with a high power setting, and the prop hit the
pavement.
The last 12 inches or so of every blade was reduced to a million
splinters in about one second! (Hence, his new callsign.) A broom and
dustpan was used to sweep up what used to be three prop blades.
I don't believe the engine was damaged at all.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic Lock |
Was the engine checked in any way, or was it just assumed it was fine and a
new prop bolted on before continuing to fly?
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mozam
Sent: 29 April 2013 13:28
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Hydraulic Lock
A couple years ago I watched as one of our NE guys tried to make a left turn
onto a taxiway in his -52TD just as his right brake froze up. The nose went
over, with a high power setting, and the prop hit the pavement.
The last 12 inches or so of every blade was reduced to a million splinters
in about one second! (Hence, his new callsign.) A broom and dustpan was used
to sweep up what used to be three prop blades.
I don't believe the engine was damaged at all.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399593#399593
--
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Engine is making aluminum |
Brad,
Not meaning to disagree with Pappy, because every word he said is true... so this
is not in disagreement with anyone or anything.
However, I know a tiny bit about the M-14 and how it works, and these thoughts
come to mind.
1. In my 43 years of working on larger aircraft as a Field Engineer, the one axiom
that works more often than not is: When you have an unusual problem, look
at what was just worked on (or changed) last, and eliminate that possibility
first. In your case, the prop has 30 hours on it, and there is aluminum in the
hub. Props can make engines vibrate. As in: Ya think? The engine has 650
hours on it without a problem of this nature. Although pistons and rings do
come apart, it is the second thing I would look for and not the first given 30
hours on the prop. New prop, prop has aluminum in it, prop can make engine
vibrate, hmmm... look at prop! (And yes, you already figured this out I know)
2. The prop governor has an oil screen. Has it been checked? Quite important
that it DOES get checked. If there is no aluminum in the prop governor screen
and none in the main oil screen, then it is more than likely that the aluminum
came from inside the prop to begin with... and then there is the fact that
it has only been on the engine for 30 hours .. hint hint. :-)
So check the oil screens .... ALL of them, before you start flushing anything.
Just my two cents, and ask some of the better engine guys, like the folks that
rebuild them ... George Coy, etc.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bradly Banks
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 1:43
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Engine is making aluminum
Thanks pappy, we are holding our breath at the moment, I seem to remember a morning
3weeks back it was very cold and the oil pressure struggled to get past 1,
5 for a few minutes then rose to 6 where it usually resides we are a thicker
120 oil for our hotter temps. My thinking is that the debris could be from the
lobes in the oil pump.Time will tell.
Thanks for all you kind input.
BRAD
Sent from Samsung Mobile
-------- Original message --------
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Engine is making aluminum
If your sure its aluminum it could very well be a piston. I had a new M-14p right
from the factory where the #3 piston had a scraper ring in place of the oil
ring. (Things happen like that even very "controlled" countries). Anyway (at
438 hours) the chip light came on right as I started the engine during a fuel
stop returning from OSH. While mine didn't exhibit a vibration, its not out
of the question, particular if the balance is thrown off some. The pistons are
machined from aluminum castings, and bits are not unusual to find in a filter.
But large amounts are a no, no. In many cases the "lands" of the piston
brake off and at the same time the steel rings may brake also. The steel edges
will chew the softer aluminum. If you're lucky and the steel ring pieces haven't
started migrating though the engine, the aluminum is soft and less destructive.
A compression check may be able spot the offending cylinder and hopefully only
require a replacement. This can be done in 2 days if all the parts, tools, and
willing hands are at hand, along with a couple cans of beer for your buds.
OR it can be much worse.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 4/28/2013 3:21:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, brad@runawaymedia.co.za
writes:
Thankyou Bill, ill keep you posted on the progress.
Sent from Samsung Mobile
-------- Original message --------
From: bill wade <bwade154@yahoo.com>
Date:
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Engine is making aluminum
I remember reading about an oil ring that was replaced incorrectly quite a few
years ago that put enough metal through the engine to light the chip detector.
I don't recall if a vibration was detected, I think the fellow that it happened
to still monitors the list.
Bill Wade
From: Bradly Banks <brad@runawaymedia.co.za>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 1:11 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Engine is making aluminum
Oh dear, was all i could muster after my AME called. The engine is 30hrs old
.During a routine climb out at 80%, the aircraft developed a significant rhythmic
hum.enough for me to look for an alternative landing option. Throttling back
to 68% the vibration settled down and almost faded all together. Pullong in
to the Amo I askedhim to look at it.
Prop 30hrs
Engine 650hrs tt
Smoh 30hrs
The AME found that at 45% the instrument testing vibration reads 0, 2 then at80%
was last seen passing 10.
The AME pulled the prop and had the oil tested. No chrome or bearing material
but an unusual amount of aluminium in the hub (due to the centrifuge effect).
The run out is zero on the flange and there is no noticeable lash or give in the
propeller shaft.
We are planning on a complete flush of the oil .
And fit a spare prop to rule out the prop as a source of the vibration.
Any one wanting to take a shot at were the aluminium is being produced?
Regards brad
Sent from Samsung Mobile
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="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Engine is making aluminum |
Mark,
Engine is 30 SMOH, too.
Bill
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399614#399614
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Engine is making aluminum |
Saw that too and decided to keep my mouth shut. I have a new engine that had been
pickled for 6 years. I'm afraid to even ask what it is making right now.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
>From: Bill vH <billvh@beanddi.com>
>Sent: Apr 29, 2013 12:28 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine is making aluminum
>
>
>Mark,
>Engine is 30 SMOH, too.
>Bill
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399614#399614
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic Lock |
Reade, Holy shit what a picture !! I would have been sick I think.
I was worried about mine - happened in 2005, taxing at OSH prior to air
venture - hit something with only one blade. They were establishing all
the alternative ground taxi patterns. Other 2 blades ok.
Now 300 hours later no issues.
Dr. Herb Coussons, MD
drc@wscare.com
2641 Development Drive
Green Bay, WI 54311
Cell 920-639-8434
Work 920-338-6868
Fax 920-338-6869
On Apr 29, 2013, at 9:07 AM, "Genzlinger, Reade" <ReadeG@Cairnwood.com>
wrote:
> This is true - it was an amazing shower of sawdust! It did not tip up
> very fast - it was a slow motion kind of thing which meant that I knew
> exactly what was about to happen even with stick full aft and pulling
> the power. We tore down the nose case and had the components tested
> however they needed to be tested and nothing was out of order. We had
> other tests done that were either prescribed in the manuals or deemed
> appropriate for the situation. Results were all nominal. We put it
> back together and that was probably 200 hours ago.
>
> Splinter
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mozam
> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 8:28 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Hydraulic Lock
>
>
> A couple years ago I watched as one of our NE guys tried to make a
left
> turn onto a taxiway in his -52TD just as his right brake froze up. The
> nose went over, with a high power setting, and the prop hit the
> pavement.
>
> The last 12 inches or so of every blade was reduced to a million
> splinters in about one second! (Hence, his new callsign.) A broom and
> dustpan was used to sweep up what used to be three prop blades.
>
> I don't believe the engine was damaged at all.
>
> <070.JPG><072.JPG>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Engine is making aluminum |
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic Lock |
Yeah - it was not a great way to end the day. It was the last flight of
the day - I was doing a practice 4 ship flight as lead. As I was
taxiing I could not get it to turn left. I stopped and tried to taxing
again attempting a left turn and all it wanted to do was go straight
-but it did seem to exhibit some left braking. I stopped again and then
tried once more trying a little extra power to use the rudder to help.
As I began to move forward cycling the brake handle about the third
squeeze the brakes just locked up and the tail began to rise from power
and momentum. I pulled it back but too late. The one fortunate thing
is that the engine stopped with one of the blades on the ground - in
other words the blade held the cowl off the ground. After the Oscar
Sierra moment I shut everything down, a couple of buddies came over and
pulled the tail out of the sky and we got out and promptly pushed it out
of the way and into a hangar. As noted by Mozam, just a lot of
splinters on the ground. Not one mark out of the pavement.
Interestingly, the FAA was at this event. I had to provide my paperwork
(she looked at everything - program letter, registration, AC, parachute
repack date - all was in order!) and she wrote up a report. The next
day an inspector came out and determined that no property was damaged
and he simply called it an incident and not an accident. I had to let
them know when it was made airworthy again and that was it.
The MT prop is wonderful. But it is crazy expensive and the lead times
are awful. Insurance less deductible worked as expected. Needless to
say, the out of pocket still had some sting to it. The brake reduction
valve was replaced and all has been fine ever since. One expensive and
humbling way to get a call sign!
Reade Genzlinger
Cairnwood Cooperative Corporation
215.914.0370
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb Coussons
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Hydraulic Lock
Reade, Holy shit what a picture !! I would have been sick I think.
I was worried about mine - happened in 2005, taxing at OSH prior to air
venture - hit something with only one blade. They were establishing all
the alternative ground taxi patterns. Other 2 blades ok.
Now 300 hours later no issues.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Engine is making aluminum |
Copy Brad, good luck.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 29, 2013, at 1:34 PM, Bradly Banks <brad@runawaymedia.co.za> wrote:
> This was also in storage for 5 , Mark is quite right it's a bit like askin
g "how long is a piece of string".lets just hope that it isn't a disaster th
at we can't recover from . This engine is the equivalent to 5 yrs university
, or a fully paid up Com licence.
> Thanks again for all the time takrn by the contributors to this forum.
>
> Brad
>
>
> Sent from Samsung Mobile
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> Date:
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine is making aluminum
>
>
>
> Saw that too and decided to keep my mouth shut. I have a new engine that h
ad been pickled for 6 years. I'm afraid to even ask what it is making right n
ow.
> Doc
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Bill vH <billvh@beanddi.com>
> >Sent: Apr 29, 2013 12:28 PM
> >To: yak-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Yak-List: Re: Engine is making aluminum
> >
> >
> >Mark,
> >Engine is 30 SMOH, too.
> >Bill
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Read this topic online here:
> >
> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399614#399614
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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