Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:58 AM - Re: Air system 'stuff' (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 05:40 AM - CJ6 engine exhaust system collars (CJ6XXK)
3. 05:57 AM - Re: Air system 'stuff' (John Nolan)
4. 06:14 AM - Re: Air system 'stuff' (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
5. 06:36 AM - Re: Air system 'stuff' (A. Dennis Savarese)
6. 06:51 AM - Re: Air system 'stuff' (A. Dennis Savarese)
7. 06:52 AM - Re: Air system 'stuff' (John Nolan)
8. 06:59 AM - Re: Air system 'stuff' (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
9. 07:07 AM - Re: Air system 'stuff' (A. Dennis Savarese)
10. 07:22 AM - Re: Air system 'stuff' (Mark Davis)
11. 07:52 AM - Re: Air system 'stuff' (bill wade)
12. 08:28 AM - Re: Air system 'stuff' (A. Dennis Savarese)
13. 08:32 AM - Re: Air system 'stuff' (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
14. 02:18 PM - Re: Air system 'stuff' (bill wade)
15. 02:32 PM - Re: Air system 'stuff' (A. Dennis Savarese)
16. 07:40 PM - Fw: Parker pop-off in use on my CJ (Roger Kemp M.D.)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Air system 'stuff' |
Since neither the CJ nor the Yak 52, which have 100% identical gear and
flap selectors for both front and rear cockpits, the rear cockpit gear
and flap selectors are no longer used as was originally intended; as
primary trainers. Therefore gear and flap selectors in the rear cockpit
serve no functional benefit other than to pass the air pressure through
them to the front cockpit. Why not fabricate a 3 valve and 5 valve
bypass 'block' which could replace both of these "rarely ever used"
components and eliminate potential failures in the pneumatic system?
This is not difficult to do. In fact, I am pretty sure Jim Goolsby
modified his rear gear selector and created a bypass. Thus he eliminated
the potential failure of the unit. I personally fabricated a bypass
configuration for one Yak 52 and completely removed the rear gear
selector. Replacing a rear gear selector in a Yak 52 is far more
difficult than on a CJ because the CJ's gear selector can be accessed
from behind the front seat. In the Yak 52 you need a 10 year old skinny
kid to get under the instrument panel.
If you have never disassembled a rear gear selector after it has started
leaking, you would not believe the rust and junk that accumulates inside
this piece of equipment when it is never used. And many folks never even
test them during the condition inspection. So they just sit there and
corrode over time.
My contention is, if it is not used and can and will cause pneumatic
system problems, why not remove it from the system and eliminate the
potential problem once and for all.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 6/10/2013 4:41 PM, doug sapp wrote:
> Mark,
> It has been my experience that 75% or more of the failures of QSF2A
> valves (3 port valves to you 52 types), and 12-5522-00 (5 port valve)
> are caused not by moisture/rust but by grit and or pieces of rusted
> springs. Years of rusty springs and poor maintenance has resulted in
> the majority of the air systems out there being contaminated to some
> degree. To combat the base problem we switched to all stainless steel
> springs in most all of our valves quite some time ago. The secondary
> problem of contaminated pneumatic problems is harder to solve as
> flushing the system out is very difficult. We are experimenting with
> the installation of a second stainless steel desiccant filter
> installed just prior to the rear gear valve, if successful this should
> vastly extend the life of these expensive valves.
>
> Best,
> Doug
>
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>> wrote:
>
> WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>
>
> Thanks for the expert advice Doug. I had never even considered that.
>
> By the way, there is an air filter of sorts in the YAK-50. It is
> located on the "T" air divider area where all the check valves are
> located (four of them). It appears to be a circular device with
> fittings at both ends and is possibly filled with something like steel
> wool. In any case, whatever was in mine came all to pieces and junked
> up the check valves.
>
> Again: Good advice on a better filter. Hmmm.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of doug sapp
> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 14:44
> To: yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
>
> Cory,
> Mark is correct in all he said, however the valve which you have
> selected would be somewhat prone to problems if your upstream air
> system
> is not 100% free of foreign material, such as old std steel rusted
> spring parts, dirt, grease, etc. These valves are intended for use in
> clean environments, not the somewhat dirtier systems of the CJ6.
> Placing the valve just after a high quality filter would both extend
> it's life and lower the probability of reoccurring maintenance issues
> I'm sure.
>
> Best,
> Doug
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>> wrote:
>
>
> NAVAIR,
> WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>
>
> Cory,
>
> Sorry to disagree, but just in the details. The valves that
> you referenced are indeed pop-off valves. They open to release or
> by-pass pressure to keep at a maintained value, exactly as does the
> pressure relief valve that is in there now. That said, they are
> of much
> better design and should work much better than the ones that are in
> there now, if you get one rated for the pressure and flow for our
> application.
>
> Taken from the company's web site:
>
> "Although this valve operates very similar to a relief valve
> which is usually designed to release pressure quickly as soon as
> the set
> pressure is exceeded , this valve is designed to relieve pressure more
> gradually with changes in flow resulting in fewer pressure spikes when
> the valve opens and closes. This is a direct-acting valve with an
> adjustable spring operating against a piston subjected to the inlet
> pressure of the valve. Increasing the spring compression will increase
> the system or line pressure to be maintained. Reducing the spring
> compression will reduce the system or line pressure to be
> maintained. "
>
> The summation:
>
> "An increase in system pressure beyond the set point will
> cause
> the main valve to open and relieve or bypass the excess pressure."
>
> This is EXACTLY how our present valves work, but these are
> easier to get and maintain.
>
> Mark
>
> p.s. Probably a darn good replacement.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Cory Robin
> Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2013 10:09
> To: yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
>
> I found a source of a back pressure relief valve. Rather
> than
> it popping off and reducing the pressure, it maintains the pressure at
> your pre-set value.
>
> I've ordered a couple to test them.
>
>
> https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regul
> ator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05
> <https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regul%0Aator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05>
>
>
> ==========
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> ==========
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 2
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| Subject: | CJ6 engine exhaust system collars |
Hi
I have about 11-12 new cnc machined exhaust collars for the exhaust.I all so have
9 stubs as well to suit.
let me know if your interested and would like pictures.
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402473#402473
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Air system 'stuff' |
When removing any components from the aft cockpit I would consider the
possibility of pilot incapacitation in the forward cockpit with a person in
the back.
Regards,
John Nolan
On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 7:55 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> Since neither the CJ nor the Yak 52, which have 100% identical gear and
> flap selectors for both front and rear cockpits, the rear cockpit gear and
> flap selectors are no longer used as was originally intended; as primary
> trainers. Therefore gear and flap selectors in the rear cockpit serve no
> functional benefit other than to pass the air pressure through them to the
> front cockpit. Why not fabricate a 3 valve and 5 valve bypass 'block'
> which could replace both of these "rarely ever used" components and
> eliminate potential failures in the pneumatic system?
>
> This is not difficult to do. In fact, I am pretty sure Jim Goolsby
> modified his rear gear selector and created a bypass. Thus he eliminated
> the potential failure of the unit. I personally fabricated a bypass
> configuration for one Yak 52 and completely removed the rear gear selector.
> Replacing a rear gear selector in a Yak 52 is far more difficult than on a
> CJ because the CJ's gear selector can be accessed from behind the front
> seat. In the Yak 52 you need a 10 year old skinny kid to get under the
> instrument panel.
>
> If you have never disassembled a rear gear selector after it has started
> leaking, you would not believe the rust and junk that accumulates inside
> this piece of equipment when it is never used. And many folks never even
> test them during the condition inspection. So they just sit there and
> corrode over time.
>
> My contention is, if it is not used and can and will cause pneumatic
> system problems, why not remove it from the system and eliminate the
> potential problem once and for all.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263
> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
> www.yak-52.com
> Skype - Yakguy1
>
> On 6/10/2013 4:41 PM, doug sapp wrote:
>
>> Mark,
>> It has been my experience that 75% or more of the failures of QSF2A
>> valves (3 port valves to you 52 types), and 12-5522-00 (5 port valve) are
>> caused not by moisture/rust but by grit and or pieces of rusted springs.
>> Years of rusty springs and poor maintenance has resulted in the majority
>> of the air systems out there being contaminated to some degree. To combat
>> the base problem we switched to all stainless steel springs in most all of
>> our valves quite some time ago. The secondary problem of contaminated
>> pneumatic problems is harder to solve as flushing the system out is very
>> difficult. We are experimenting with the installation of a second
>> stainless steel desiccant filter installed just prior to the rear gear
>> valve, if successful this should vastly extend the life of these expensive
>> valves.
>>
>> Best,
>> Doug
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <
>> mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.**mil<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.**mil<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>> >>
>>
>> Thanks for the expert advice Doug. I had never even considered that.
>>
>> By the way, there is an air filter of sorts in the YAK-50. It is
>> located on the "T" air divider area where all the check valves are
>> located (four of them). It appears to be a circular device with
>> fittings at both ends and is possibly filled with something like steel
>> wool. In any case, whatever was in mine came all to pieces and junked
>> up the check valves.
>>
>> Again: Good advice on a better filter. Hmmm.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
>> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
>> >
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
>> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>>]
>> On Behalf Of doug sapp
>> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 14:44
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com**>
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
>>
>> Cory,
>> Mark is correct in all he said, however the valve which you have
>> selected would be somewhat prone to problems if your upstream air
>> system
>> is not 100% free of foreign material, such as old std steel rusted
>> spring parts, dirt, grease, etc. These valves are intended for use in
>> clean environments, not the somewhat dirtier systems of the CJ6.
>> Placing the valve just after a high quality filter would both extend
>> it's life and lower the probability of reoccurring maintenance issues
>> I'm sure.
>>
>> Best,
>> Doug
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
>> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.**mil<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> NAVAIR,
>> WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.**mil<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>> >>
>>
>> Cory,
>>
>> Sorry to disagree, but just in the details. The valves that
>> you referenced are indeed pop-off valves. They open to release or
>> by-pass pressure to keep at a maintained value, exactly as does the
>> pressure relief valve that is in there now. That said, they are
>> of much
>> better design and should work much better than the ones that are in
>> there now, if you get one rated for the pressure and flow for our
>> application.
>>
>> Taken from the company's web site:
>>
>> "Although this valve operates very similar to a relief valve
>> which is usually designed to release pressure quickly as soon as
>> the set
>> pressure is exceeded , this valve is designed to relieve pressure more
>> gradually with changes in flow resulting in fewer pressure spikes when
>> the valve opens and closes. This is a direct-acting valve with an
>> adjustable spring operating against a piston subjected to the inlet
>> pressure of the valve. Increasing the spring compression will increase
>> the system or line pressure to be maintained. Reducing the spring
>> compression will reduce the system or line pressure to be
>> maintained. "
>>
>> The summation:
>>
>> "An increase in system pressure beyond the set point will
>> cause
>> the main valve to open and relieve or bypass the excess pressure."
>>
>> This is EXACTLY how our present valves work, but these are
>> easier to get and maintain.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> p.s. Probably a darn good replacement.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
>> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
>> >
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
>> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>>]
>> On Behalf Of Cory Robin
>> Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2013 10:09
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com**>
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
>>
>> I found a source of a back pressure relief valve. Rather
>> than
>> it popping off and reducing the pressure, it maintains the pressure at
>> your pre-set value.
>>
>> I've ordered a couple to test them.
>>
>>
>> https://straval.com/catlist-**back-pressure-regulators/back-**
>> pressure-regul<https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regul>
>> ator-piston-angle-valve-**threaded-bps-05
>> <https://straval.com/catlist-**back-pressure-regulators/back-**
>> pressure-regul%0Aator-piston-**angle-valve-threaded-bps-05<https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regul%0Aator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> rget="_blank">http://www.**matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-**List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List>
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.**matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> rget="_blank">http://www.**matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-**List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List>
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.**matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Air system 'stuff' |
I have the same concerns when flying my YAK-50. :-)
No seriously.... with a "person" in the back, or "you" in the back? For
those performing aerobatic flight instruction in their YAK-52's where
they have some less than qualified person in the front seat, keeping the
rear seat selectors and indicators working makes sense. Of course that
also then assumes the same folks are going to pay special attention to
the known problems that accumulate due to this decision.
Otherwise the less than qualified person is probably going to be in the
rear seat anyway... and if the owner/pilot is incapacitated in the front
seat the passenger can land it gear up. :-) Just thinking out loud...
sorry.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Nolan
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 8:55
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
When removing any components from the aft cockpit I would consider the
possibility of pilot incapacitation in the forward cockpit with a person
in the back.
Regards,
John Nolan
On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 7:55 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Since neither the CJ nor the Yak 52, which have 100% identical
gear and flap selectors for both front and rear cockpits, the rear
cockpit gear and flap selectors are no longer used as was originally
intended; as primary trainers. Therefore gear and flap selectors in the
rear cockpit serve no functional benefit other than to pass the air
pressure through them to the front cockpit. Why not fabricate a 3
valve and 5 valve bypass 'block' which could replace both of these
"rarely ever used" components and eliminate potential failures in the
pneumatic system?
This is not difficult to do. In fact, I am pretty sure Jim
Goolsby modified his rear gear selector and created a bypass. Thus he
eliminated the potential failure of the unit. I personally fabricated a
bypass configuration for one Yak 52 and completely removed the rear gear
selector. Replacing a rear gear selector in a Yak 52 is far more
difficult than on a CJ because the CJ's gear selector can be accessed
from behind the front seat. In the Yak 52 you need a 10 year old skinny
kid to get under the instrument panel.
If you have never disassembled a rear gear selector after it has
started leaking, you would not believe the rust and junk that
accumulates inside this piece of equipment when it is never used. And
many folks never even test them during the condition inspection. So
they just sit there and corrode over time.
My contention is, if it is not used and can and will cause
pneumatic system problems, why not remove it from the system and
eliminate the potential problem once and for all.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 6/10/2013 4:41 PM, doug sapp wrote:
Mark,
It has been my experience that 75% or more of the
failures of QSF2A valves (3 port valves to you 52 types), and 12-5522-00
(5 port valve) are caused not by moisture/rust but by grit and or pieces
of rusted springs. Years of rusty springs and poor maintenance has
resulted in the majority of the air systems out there being contaminated
to some degree. To combat the base problem we switched to all stainless
steel springs in most all of our valves quite some time ago. The
secondary problem of contaminated pneumatic problems is harder to solve
as flushing the system out is very difficult. We are experimenting with
the installation of a second stainless steel desiccant filter installed
just prior to the rear gear valve, if successful this should vastly
extend the life of these expensive valves.
Best,
Doug
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV
NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >> wrote:
CIV NAVAIR,
WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >>
Thanks for the expert advice Doug. I had never even
considered that.
By the way, there is an air filter of sorts in the
YAK-50. It is
located on the "T" air divider area where all the
check valves are
located (four of them). It appears to be a circular
device with
fittings at both ends and is possibly filled with
something like steel
wool. In any case, whatever was in mine came all to
pieces and junked
up the check valves.
Again: Good advice on a better filter. Hmmm.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >] On Behalf Of doug sapp
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 14:44
To: yak-list@matronics.com
<mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
Cory,
Mark is correct in all he said, however the valve
which you have
selected would be somewhat prone to problems if your
upstream air
system
is not 100% free of foreign material, such as old
std steel rusted
spring parts, dirt, grease, etc. These valves are
intended for use in
clean environments, not the somewhat dirtier systems
of the CJ6.
Placing the valve just after a high quality filter
would both extend
it's life and lower the probability of reoccurring
maintenance issues
I'm sure.
Best,
Doug
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV NAVAIR, WD
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >>
wrote:
Mark G CIV
NAVAIR,
WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >>
Cory,
Sorry to disagree, but just in the details.
The valves that
you referenced are indeed pop-off valves. They open
to release or
by-pass pressure to keep at a maintained value,
exactly as does the
pressure relief valve that is in there now. That
said, they are
of much
better design and should work much better than the
ones that are in
there now, if you get one rated for the pressure and
flow for our
application.
Taken from the company's web site:
"Although this valve operates very similar
to a relief valve
which is usually designed to release pressure
quickly as soon as
the set
pressure is exceeded , this valve is designed to
relieve pressure more
gradually with changes in flow resulting in fewer
pressure spikes when
the valve opens and closes. This is a direct-acting
valve with an
adjustable spring operating against a piston
subjected to the inlet
pressure of the valve. Increasing the spring
compression will increase
the system or line pressure to be maintained.
Reducing the spring
compression will reduce the system or line pressure
to be
maintained. "
The summation:
"An increase in system pressure beyond the
set point will
cause
the main valve to open and relieve or bypass the
excess pressure."
This is EXACTLY how our present valves work,
but these are
easier to get and maintain.
Mark
p.s. Probably a darn good replacement.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >] On Behalf Of Cory Robin
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2013 10:09
To: yak-list@matronics.com
<mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
I found a source of a back pressure relief
valve. Rather
than
it popping off and reducing the pressure, it
maintains the pressure at
your pre-set value.
I've ordered a couple to test them.
https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regul
<https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regu
l>
ator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05
<https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regu
l%0Aator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05
<https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regu
l%0Aator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05> >
==========
rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List>
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
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rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List>
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Air system 'stuff' |
I am not suggesting this modification is for everyone. Each owner has
to make his or her own decision whether to keep the gear and flap
selectors in the rear cockpit or not. But if one decides to keep them,
then by golly make sure you exercise them periodically. Not exercising
them periodically can do more harm than good.
We could create all kinds of scenarios John to justify keeping the no
longer used components in the rear cockpit. Then what about the rear
brake disabling capability? What about the instrument failure simulator
switches? Next question would be, do you always fly with a qualified
pilot in the rear seat? If you had a non-pilot in the rear seat
(happens much more than with a qualified pilot) do you really think the
non qualified person is going to know what to do in the first place?
Lastly, the Yak 52 can be landed gear up. The question is, can the
person in the back seat REALLY land the airplane? Gear up OR gear down?
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 6/11/2013 7:55 AM, John Nolan wrote:
> When removing any components from the aft cockpit I would consider the
> possibility of pilot incapacitation in the forward cockpit with a
> person in the back.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Nolan
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 7:55 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net <mailto:dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>> wrote:
>
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net <mailto:dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>>
>
> Since neither the CJ nor the Yak 52, which have 100% identical
> gear and flap selectors for both front and rear cockpits, the rear
> cockpit gear and flap selectors are no longer used as was
> originally intended; as primary trainers. Therefore gear and flap
> selectors in the rear cockpit serve no functional benefit other
> than to pass the air pressure through them to the front cockpit.
> Why not fabricate a 3 valve and 5 valve bypass 'block' which could
> replace both of these "rarely ever used" components and eliminate
> potential failures in the pneumatic system?
>
> This is not difficult to do. In fact, I am pretty sure Jim
> Goolsby modified his rear gear selector and created a bypass. Thus
> he eliminated the potential failure of the unit. I personally
> fabricated a bypass configuration for one Yak 52 and completely
> removed the rear gear selector. Replacing a rear gear selector in
> a Yak 52 is far more difficult than on a CJ because the CJ's gear
> selector can be accessed from behind the front seat. In the Yak
> 52 you need a 10 year old skinny kid to get under the instrument
> panel.
>
> If you have never disassembled a rear gear selector after it has
> started leaking, you would not believe the rust and junk that
> accumulates inside this piece of equipment when it is never used.
> And many folks never even test them during the condition
> inspection. So they just sit there and corrode over time.
>
> My contention is, if it is not used and can and will cause
> pneumatic system problems, why not remove it from the system and
> eliminate the potential problem once and for all.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263 <tel:334-285-6263>
> 334-546-8182 <tel:334-546-8182> (mobile)
> www.yak-52.com <http://www.yak-52.com>
> Skype - Yakguy1
>
> On 6/10/2013 4:41 PM, doug sapp wrote:
>
> Mark,
> It has been my experience that 75% or more of the failures of
> QSF2A valves (3 port valves to you 52 types), and 12-5522-00
> (5 port valve) are caused not by moisture/rust but by grit and
> or pieces of rusted springs. Years of rusty springs and poor
> maintenance has resulted in the majority of the air systems
> out there being contaminated to some degree. To combat the
> base problem we switched to all stainless steel springs in
> most all of our valves quite some time ago. The secondary
> problem of contaminated pneumatic problems is harder to solve
> as flushing the system out is very difficult. We are
> experimenting with the installation of a second stainless
> steel desiccant filter installed just prior to the rear gear
> valve, if successful this should vastly extend the life of
> these expensive valves.
>
> Best,
> Doug
>
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV
> NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>> wrote:
>
> NAVAIR,
> WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>>
>
> Thanks for the expert advice Doug. I had never even
> considered that.
>
> By the way, there is an air filter of sorts in the YAK-50.
> It is
> located on the "T" air divider area where all the check
> valves are
> located (four of them). It appears to be a circular
> device with
> fittings at both ends and is possibly filled with
> something like steel
> wool. In any case, whatever was in mine came all to
> pieces and junked
> up the check valves.
>
> Again: Good advice on a better filter. Hmmm.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>>
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>>] On Behalf Of
> doug sapp
> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 14:44
> To: yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
>
> Cory,
> Mark is correct in all he said, however the valve which
> you have
> selected would be somewhat prone to problems if your
> upstream air
> system
> is not 100% free of foreign material, such as old std
> steel rusted
> spring parts, dirt, grease, etc. These valves are
> intended for use in
> clean environments, not the somewhat dirtier systems of
> the CJ6.
> Placing the valve just after a high quality filter would
> both extend
> it's life and lower the probability of reoccurring
> maintenance issues
> I'm sure.
>
> Best,
> Doug
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV
> NAVAIR, WD
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>> wrote:
>
>
> G CIV
> NAVAIR,
> WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>>
>
> Cory,
>
> Sorry to disagree, but just in the details. The
> valves that
> you referenced are indeed pop-off valves. They open to
> release or
> by-pass pressure to keep at a maintained value, exactly as
> does the
> pressure relief valve that is in there now. That said,
> they are
> of much
> better design and should work much better than the ones
> that are in
> there now, if you get one rated for the pressure and flow
> for our
> application.
>
> Taken from the company's web site:
>
> "Although this valve operates very similar to a
> relief valve
> which is usually designed to release pressure quickly as
> soon as
> the set
> pressure is exceeded , this valve is designed to relieve
> pressure more
> gradually with changes in flow resulting in fewer pressure
> spikes when
> the valve opens and closes. This is a direct-acting valve
> with an
> adjustable spring operating against a piston subjected to
> the inlet
> pressure of the valve. Increasing the spring compression
> will increase
> the system or line pressure to be maintained. Reducing the
> spring
> compression will reduce the system or line pressure to be
> maintained. "
>
> The summation:
>
> "An increase in system pressure beyond the set
> point will
> cause
> the main valve to open and relieve or bypass the excess
> pressure."
>
> This is EXACTLY how our present valves work, but
> these are
> easier to get and maintain.
>
> Mark
>
> p.s. Probably a darn good replacement.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>>
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>>] On Behalf Of
> Cory Robin
> Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2013 10:09
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
>
> I found a source of a back pressure relief valve.
> Rather
> than
> it popping off and reducing the pressure, it maintains the
> pressure at
> your pre-set value.
>
> I've ordered a couple to test them.
>
>
> https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regul
> ator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05
>
> <https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regul%0Aator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05>
>
>
> ==========
>
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> ==========
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> ===================================
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ===================================
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Air system 'stuff' |
Why in the world would you put a "less than qualified person" in the
front seat of a Yak 52 in the first place? Putting anyone in the front
seat of a Yak 52, including even a high time pilot, without proper
aircraft-specific instruction and cockpit briefing BEFOREHAND is
potentially an accident looking for a place to happen.
Performing aerobatic flight instruction from the rear seat in a Yak 52
normally presumes the person in the front cockpit is a certificated
pilot to begin with. If not, what is that person doing in the front
seat in the first place? AND if an instructor is in the back seat and
teaching aerobatics to certificated pilot, the instructor also has the
responsibility to provide proper orientation and cockpit instruction
long before ever having the person in the front seat push the start button.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 6/11/2013 8:12 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD wrote:
>
> I have the same concerns when flying my YAK-50. :-)
>
> No seriously.... with a "person" in the back, or "you" in the back? For
> those performing aerobatic flight instruction in their YAK-52's where
> they have some less than qualified person in the front seat, keeping the
> rear seat selectors and indicators working makes sense. Of course that
> also then assumes the same folks are going to pay special attention to
> the known problems that accumulate due to this decision.
>
> Otherwise the less than qualified person is probably going to be in the
> rear seat anyway... and if the owner/pilot is incapacitated in the front
> seat the passenger can land it gear up. :-) Just thinking out loud...
> sorry.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Nolan
> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 8:55
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
>
> When removing any components from the aft cockpit I would consider the
> possibility of pilot incapacitation in the forward cockpit with a person
> in the back.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Nolan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 7:55 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> Since neither the CJ nor the Yak 52, which have 100% identical
> gear and flap selectors for both front and rear cockpits, the rear
> cockpit gear and flap selectors are no longer used as was originally
> intended; as primary trainers. Therefore gear and flap selectors in the
> rear cockpit serve no functional benefit other than to pass the air
> pressure through them to the front cockpit. Why not fabricate a 3
> valve and 5 valve bypass 'block' which could replace both of these
> "rarely ever used" components and eliminate potential failures in the
> pneumatic system?
>
> This is not difficult to do. In fact, I am pretty sure Jim
> Goolsby modified his rear gear selector and created a bypass. Thus he
> eliminated the potential failure of the unit. I personally fabricated a
> bypass configuration for one Yak 52 and completely removed the rear gear
> selector. Replacing a rear gear selector in a Yak 52 is far more
> difficult than on a CJ because the CJ's gear selector can be accessed
> from behind the front seat. In the Yak 52 you need a 10 year old skinny
> kid to get under the instrument panel.
>
> If you have never disassembled a rear gear selector after it has
> started leaking, you would not believe the rust and junk that
> accumulates inside this piece of equipment when it is never used. And
> many folks never even test them during the condition inspection. So
> they just sit there and corrode over time.
>
> My contention is, if it is not used and can and will cause
> pneumatic system problems, why not remove it from the system and
> eliminate the potential problem once and for all.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263
> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
> www.yak-52.com
> Skype - Yakguy1
>
> On 6/10/2013 4:41 PM, doug sapp wrote:
>
>
> Mark,
> It has been my experience that 75% or more of the
> failures of QSF2A valves (3 port valves to you 52 types), and 12-5522-00
> (5 port valve) are caused not by moisture/rust but by grit and or pieces
> of rusted springs. Years of rusty springs and poor maintenance has
> resulted in the majority of the air systems out there being contaminated
> to some degree. To combat the base problem we switched to all stainless
> steel springs in most all of our valves quite some time ago. The
> secondary problem of contaminated pneumatic problems is harder to solve
> as flushing the system out is very difficult. We are experimenting with
> the installation of a second stainless steel desiccant filter installed
> just prior to the rear gear valve, if successful this should vastly
> extend the life of these expensive valves.
>
> Best,
> Doug
>
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV
> NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >> wrote:
>
> CIV NAVAIR,
> WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >>
>
> Thanks for the expert advice Doug. I had never even
> considered that.
>
> By the way, there is an air filter of sorts in the
> YAK-50. It is
> located on the "T" air divider area where all the
> check valves are
> located (four of them). It appears to be a circular
> device with
> fittings at both ends and is possibly filled with
> something like steel
> wool. In any case, whatever was in mine came all to
> pieces and junked
> up the check valves.
>
> Again: Good advice on a better filter. Hmmm.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >] On Behalf Of doug sapp
> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 14:44
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
>
> Cory,
> Mark is correct in all he said, however the valve
> which you have
> selected would be somewhat prone to problems if your
> upstream air
> system
> is not 100% free of foreign material, such as old
> std steel rusted
> spring parts, dirt, grease, etc. These valves are
> intended for use in
> clean environments, not the somewhat dirtier systems
> of the CJ6.
> Placing the valve just after a high quality filter
> would both extend
> it's life and lower the probability of reoccurring
> maintenance issues
> I'm sure.
>
> Best,
> Doug
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G
> CIV NAVAIR, WD
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >>
> wrote:
>
>
> Mark G CIV
> NAVAIR,
> WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >>
>
> Cory,
>
> Sorry to disagree, but just in the details.
> The valves that
> you referenced are indeed pop-off valves. They open
> to release or
> by-pass pressure to keep at a maintained value,
> exactly as does the
> pressure relief valve that is in there now. That
> said, they are
> of much
> better design and should work much better than the
> ones that are in
> there now, if you get one rated for the pressure and
> flow for our
> application.
>
> Taken from the company's web site:
>
> "Although this valve operates very similar
> to a relief valve
> which is usually designed to release pressure
> quickly as soon as
> the set
> pressure is exceeded , this valve is designed to
> relieve pressure more
> gradually with changes in flow resulting in fewer
> pressure spikes when
> the valve opens and closes. This is a direct-acting
> valve with an
> adjustable spring operating against a piston
> subjected to the inlet
> pressure of the valve. Increasing the spring
> compression will increase
> the system or line pressure to be maintained.
> Reducing the spring
> compression will reduce the system or line pressure
> to be
> maintained. "
>
> The summation:
>
> "An increase in system pressure beyond the
> set point will
> cause
> the main valve to open and relieve or bypass the
> excess pressure."
>
> This is EXACTLY how our present valves work,
> but these are
> easier to get and maintain.
>
> Mark
>
> p.s. Probably a darn good replacement.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >] On Behalf Of Cory Robin
> Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2013 10:09
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
>
> I found a source of a back pressure relief
> valve. Rather
> than
> it popping off and reducing the pressure, it
> maintains the pressure at
> your pre-set value.
>
> I've ordered a couple to test them.
>
>
>
> https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regul
> <https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regu
> l>
> ator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05
>
> <https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regu
> l%0Aator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05
> <https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regu
> l%0Aator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
>
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List>
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
>
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
>
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List>
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> ==========
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
>
> ===================================
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ===================================
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Air system 'stuff' |
Dennis,
You are correct sir and I deffer to your superior knowledge of the 52. My
post was, in general, for all to consider this possibility when disabling
or keeping/enabling any system.
Regards,
John Nolan
On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 9:34 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> I am not suggesting this modification is for everyone. Each owner has to
> make his or her own decision whether to keep the gear and flap selectors in
> the rear cockpit or not. But if one decides to keep them, then by golly
> make sure you exercise them periodically. Not exercising them periodically
> can do more harm than good.
>
> We could create all kinds of scenarios John to justify keeping the no
> longer used components in the rear cockpit. Then what about the rear brake
> disabling capability? What about the instrument failure simulator
> switches? Next question would be, do you always fly with a qualified pilot
> in the rear seat? If you had a non-pilot in the rear seat (happens much
> more than with a qualified pilot) do you really think the non qualified
> person is going to know what to do in the first place?
>
> Lastly, the Yak 52 can be landed gear up. The question is, can the
> person in the back seat REALLY land the airplane? Gear up OR gear down?
>
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263
> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
> www.yak-52.com
> Skype - Yakguy1
>
> On 6/11/2013 7:55 AM, John Nolan wrote:
>
>> When removing any components from the aft cockpit I would consider the
>> possibility of pilot incapacitation in the forward cockpit with a person in
>> the back.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> John Nolan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 7:55 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <
>> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net <mailto:dsavarese0812@**bellsouth.net<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net <mailto:dsavarese0812@**bellsouth.net<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>> >>
>>
>> Since neither the CJ nor the Yak 52, which have 100% identical
>> gear and flap selectors for both front and rear cockpits, the rear
>> cockpit gear and flap selectors are no longer used as was
>> originally intended; as primary trainers. Therefore gear and flap
>> selectors in the rear cockpit serve no functional benefit other
>> than to pass the air pressure through them to the front cockpit.
>> Why not fabricate a 3 valve and 5 valve bypass 'block' which could
>> replace both of these "rarely ever used" components and eliminate
>> potential failures in the pneumatic system?
>>
>> This is not difficult to do. In fact, I am pretty sure Jim
>> Goolsby modified his rear gear selector and created a bypass. Thus
>> he eliminated the potential failure of the unit. I personally
>> fabricated a bypass configuration for one Yak 52 and completely
>> removed the rear gear selector. Replacing a rear gear selector in
>> a Yak 52 is far more difficult than on a CJ because the CJ's gear
>> selector can be accessed from behind the front seat. In the Yak
>> 52 you need a 10 year old skinny kid to get under the instrument
>> panel.
>>
>> If you have never disassembled a rear gear selector after it has
>> started leaking, you would not believe the rust and junk that
>> accumulates inside this piece of equipment when it is never used.
>> And many folks never even test them during the condition
>> inspection. So they just sit there and corrode over time.
>>
>> My contention is, if it is not used and can and will cause
>> pneumatic system problems, why not remove it from the system and
>> eliminate the potential problem once and for all.
>> Dennis
>>
>> A. Dennis Savarese
>> 334-285-6263 <tel:334-285-6263>
>> 334-546-8182 <tel:334-546-8182> (mobile)
>> www.yak-52.com <http://www.yak-52.com>
>> Skype - Yakguy1
>>
>> On 6/10/2013 4:41 PM, doug sapp wrote:
>>
>> Mark,
>> It has been my experience that 75% or more of the failures of
>> QSF2A valves (3 port valves to you 52 types), and 12-5522-00
>> (5 port valve) are caused not by moisture/rust but by grit and
>> or pieces of rusted springs. Years of rusty springs and poor
>> maintenance has resulted in the majority of the air systems
>> out there being contaminated to some degree. To combat the
>> base problem we switched to all stainless steel springs in
>> most all of our valves quite some time ago. The secondary
>> problem of contaminated pneumatic problems is harder to solve
>> as flushing the system out is very difficult. We are
>> experimenting with the installation of a second stainless
>> steel desiccant filter installed just prior to the rear gear
>> valve, if successful this should vastly extend the life of
>> these expensive valves.
>>
>> Best,
>> Doug
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV
>> NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
>> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.**mil <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>
>> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.**mil <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.**mil <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> NAVAIR,
>> WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
>> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.**mil <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>
>> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.**mil <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.**mil <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>>>
>>
>> Thanks for the expert advice Doug. I had never even
>> considered that.
>>
>> By the way, there is an air filter of sorts in the YAK-50.
>> It is
>> located on the "T" air divider area where all the check
>> valves are
>> located (four of them). It appears to be a circular
>> device with
>> fittings at both ends and is possibly filled with
>> something like steel
>> wool. In any case, whatever was in mine came all to
>> pieces and junked
>> up the check valves.
>>
>> Again: Good advice on a better filter. Hmmm.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
>> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
>> >
>> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
>> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
>> >>
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
>> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
>> >
>> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
>> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>>>]
>> On Behalf Of
>> doug sapp
>> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 14:44
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com**>
>> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com**>>
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
>>
>> Cory,
>> Mark is correct in all he said, however the valve which
>> you have
>> selected would be somewhat prone to problems if your
>> upstream air
>> system
>> is not 100% free of foreign material, such as old std
>> steel rusted
>> spring parts, dirt, grease, etc. These valves are
>> intended for use in
>> clean environments, not the somewhat dirtier systems of
>> the CJ6.
>> Placing the valve just after a high quality filter would
>> both extend
>> it's life and lower the probability of reoccurring
>> maintenance issues
>> I'm sure.
>>
>> Best,
>> Doug
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV
>> NAVAIR, WD
>> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
>> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.**mil <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>
>> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.**mil <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.**mil <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> G CIV
>> NAVAIR,
>> WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
>> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.**mil <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>
>> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.**mil <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.**mil <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>>>
>>
>> Cory,
>>
>> Sorry to disagree, but just in the details. The
>> valves that
>> you referenced are indeed pop-off valves. They open to
>> release or
>> by-pass pressure to keep at a maintained value, exactly as
>> does the
>> pressure relief valve that is in there now. That said,
>> they are
>> of much
>> better design and should work much better than the ones
>> that are in
>> there now, if you get one rated for the pressure and flow
>> for our
>> application.
>>
>> Taken from the company's web site:
>>
>> "Although this valve operates very similar to a
>> relief valve
>> which is usually designed to release pressure quickly as
>> soon as
>> the set
>> pressure is exceeded , this valve is designed to relieve
>> pressure more
>> gradually with changes in flow resulting in fewer pressure
>> spikes when
>> the valve opens and closes. This is a direct-acting valve
>> with an
>> adjustable spring operating against a piston subjected to
>> the inlet
>> pressure of the valve. Increasing the spring compression
>> will increase
>> the system or line pressure to be maintained. Reducing the
>> spring
>> compression will reduce the system or line pressure to be
>> maintained. "
>>
>> The summation:
>>
>> "An increase in system pressure beyond the set
>> point will
>> cause
>> the main valve to open and relieve or bypass the excess
>> pressure."
>>
>> This is EXACTLY how our present valves work, but
>> these are
>> easier to get and maintain.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> p.s. Probably a darn good replacement.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
>> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
>> >
>> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
>> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
>> >>
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
>> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
>> >
>> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
>> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@**matronics.com<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>>>]
>> On Behalf Of
>> Cory Robin
>> Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2013 10:09
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com**> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com
>> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com**>>
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
>>
>> I found a source of a back pressure relief valve.
>> Rather
>> than
>> it popping off and reducing the pressure, it maintains the
>> pressure at
>> your pre-set value.
>>
>> I've ordered a couple to test them.
>>
>>
>> https://straval.com/catlist-**back-pressure-regulators/back-**
>> pressure-regul<https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regul>
>> ator-piston-angle-valve-**threaded-bps-05
>> <https://straval.com/catlist-**
>> back-pressure-regulators/back-**pressure-regul%0Aator-piston-**
>> angle-valve-threaded-bps-05<https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regul%0Aator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> rget="_blank">http://www.**
>> matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-**List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List>
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.**matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> rget="_blank">http://www.**matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-**List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List>
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.**matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>> ==============================**=====
>> rget="_blank">http://www.**matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-**List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List>
>> ==============================**=====
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==============================**=====
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.**matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>> ==============================**=====
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>
>
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| Subject: | Air system 'stuff' |
I totally agree.
I was playing "Devils Advocate".
Mark Bitterlich
p.s. My Guy In Back is usually hanging on by a long rope.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 9:50
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
--> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Why in the world would you put a "less than qualified person" in the
front seat of a Yak 52 in the first place? Putting anyone in the front
seat of a Yak 52, including even a high time pilot, without proper
aircraft-specific instruction and cockpit briefing BEFOREHAND is
potentially an accident looking for a place to happen.
Performing aerobatic flight instruction from the rear seat in a Yak 52
normally presumes the person in the front cockpit is a certificated
pilot to begin with. If not, what is that person doing in the front
seat in the first place? AND if an instructor is in the back seat and
teaching aerobatics to certificated pilot, the instructor also has the
responsibility to provide proper orientation and cockpit instruction
long before ever having the person in the front seat push the start
button.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 6/11/2013 8:12 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD wrote:
> --> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> I have the same concerns when flying my YAK-50. :-)
>
> No seriously.... with a "person" in the back, or "you" in the back?
> For those performing aerobatic flight instruction in their YAK-52's
> where they have some less than qualified person in the front seat,
> keeping the rear seat selectors and indicators working makes sense.
> Of course that also then assumes the same folks are going to pay
> special attention to the known problems that accumulate due to this
decision.
>
> Otherwise the less than qualified person is probably going to be in
> the rear seat anyway... and if the owner/pilot is incapacitated in the
> front seat the passenger can land it gear up. :-) Just thinking out
loud...
> sorry.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Nolan
> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 8:55
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
>
> When removing any components from the aft cockpit I would consider the
> possibility of pilot incapacitation in the forward cockpit with a
> person in the back.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Nolan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 7:55 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> Since neither the CJ nor the Yak 52, which have 100% identical
gear
> and flap selectors for both front and rear cockpits, the rear cockpit
> gear and flap selectors are no longer used as was originally intended;
> as primary trainers. Therefore gear and flap selectors in the rear
> cockpit serve no functional benefit other than to pass the air
> pressure through them to the front cockpit. Why not fabricate a 3
> valve and 5 valve bypass 'block' which could replace both of these
> "rarely ever used" components and eliminate potential failures in the
> pneumatic system?
>
> This is not difficult to do. In fact, I am pretty sure Jim
Goolsby
> modified his rear gear selector and created a bypass. Thus he
> eliminated the potential failure of the unit. I personally fabricated
> a bypass configuration for one Yak 52 and completely removed the rear
> gear selector. Replacing a rear gear selector in a Yak 52 is far more
> difficult than on a CJ because the CJ's gear selector can be accessed
> from behind the front seat. In the Yak 52 you need a 10 year old
> skinny kid to get under the instrument panel.
>
> If you have never disassembled a rear gear selector after it has
> started leaking, you would not believe the rust and junk that
> accumulates inside this piece of equipment when it is never used. And
> many folks never even test them during the condition inspection. So
> they just sit there and corrode over time.
>
> My contention is, if it is not used and can and will cause
pneumatic
> system problems, why not remove it from the system and eliminate the
> potential problem once and for all.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263
> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
> www.yak-52.com
> Skype - Yakguy1
>
> On 6/10/2013 4:41 PM, doug sapp wrote:
>
>
> Mark,
> It has been my experience that 75% or more of the
failures of QSF2A
> valves (3 port valves to you 52 types), and 12-5522-00
> (5 port valve) are caused not by moisture/rust but by grit and or
> pieces of rusted springs. Years of rusty springs and poor maintenance
> has resulted in the majority of the air systems out there being
> contaminated to some degree. To combat the base problem we switched
> to all stainless steel springs in most all of our valves quite some
> time ago. The secondary problem of contaminated pneumatic problems is
> harder to solve as flushing the system out is very difficult. We are
> experimenting with the installation of a second stainless steel
> desiccant filter installed just prior to the rear gear valve, if
> successful this should vastly extend the life of these expensive
valves.
>
> Best,
> Doug
>
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV
NAVAIR, WD
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >> wrote:
>
CIV NAVAIR,
> WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >>
>
> Thanks for the expert advice Doug. I had never even
considered
> that.
>
> By the way, there is an air filter of sorts in the
YAK-50. It
> is
> located on the "T" air divider area where all the
check valves
> are
> located (four of them). It appears to be a circular
device with
> fittings at both ends and is possibly filled with
something like
> steel
> wool. In any case, whatever was in mine came all to
pieces and
> junked
> up the check valves.
>
> Again: Good advice on a better filter. Hmmm.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >] On Behalf Of doug sapp
> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 14:44
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
>
> Cory,
> Mark is correct in all he said, however the valve
which you have
> selected would be somewhat prone to problems if your
upstream
> air
> system
> is not 100% free of foreign material, such as old
std steel
> rusted
> spring parts, dirt, grease, etc. These valves are
intended for
> use in
> clean environments, not the somewhat dirtier systems
of the CJ6.
> Placing the valve just after a high quality filter
would both
> extend
> it's life and lower the probability of reoccurring
maintenance
> issues
> I'm sure.
>
> Best,
> Doug
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV NAVAIR,
> WD
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >>
> wrote:
>
>
Mark G CIV
> NAVAIR,
> WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >>
>
> Cory,
>
> Sorry to disagree, but just in the details.
> The valves that
> you referenced are indeed pop-off valves. They open
to release
> or
> by-pass pressure to keep at a maintained value,
exactly as does
> the
> pressure relief valve that is in there now. That
said, they are
> of much
> better design and should work much better than the
ones that are
> in
> there now, if you get one rated for the pressure and
flow for
> our
> application.
>
> Taken from the company's web site:
>
> "Although this valve operates very similar
to a relief
> valve
> which is usually designed to release pressure
quickly as soon as
> the set
> pressure is exceeded , this valve is designed to
relieve
> pressure more
> gradually with changes in flow resulting in fewer
pressure
> spikes when
> the valve opens and closes. This is a direct-acting
valve with
> an
> adjustable spring operating against a piston
subjected to the
> inlet
> pressure of the valve. Increasing the spring
compression will
> increase
> the system or line pressure to be maintained.
> Reducing the spring
> compression will reduce the system or line pressure
to be
> maintained. "
>
> The summation:
>
> "An increase in system pressure beyond the
set point
> will
> cause
> the main valve to open and relieve or bypass the
excess
> pressure."
>
> This is EXACTLY how our present valves work,
but these
> are
> easier to get and maintain.
>
> Mark
>
> p.s. Probably a darn good replacement.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >] On Behalf Of Cory
Robin
> Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2013 10:09
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
>
> I found a source of a back pressure relief
> valve. Rather
> than
> it popping off and reducing the pressure, it
maintains the
> pressure at
> your pre-set value.
>
> I've ordered a couple to test them.
>
>
>
> https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-reg
> ul
> <https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-re
> gu
> l>
> ator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05
>
> <https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-re
> gu
> l%0Aator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05
> <https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-re
> gu l%0Aator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
>
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List>
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
>
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
>
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Air system 'stuff' |
John,
I would agree with you if the airplane's mission today was for primary
or initial flight instruction. But since it is not, components that can
potentially fail could be removed. Again, that decision is always up to
the owner.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 6/11/2013 8:50 AM, John Nolan wrote:
> Dennis,
>
> You are correct sir and I deffer to your superior knowledge of the 52.
> My post was, in general, for all to consider this possibility when
> disabling or keeping/enabling any system.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Nolan
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 9:34 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net <mailto:dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>> wrote:
>
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net <mailto:dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>>
>
> I am not suggesting this modification is for everyone. Each owner
> has to make his or her own decision whether to keep the gear and
> flap selectors in the rear cockpit or not. But if one decides to
> keep them, then by golly make sure you exercise them periodically.
> Not exercising them periodically can do more harm than good.
>
> We could create all kinds of scenarios John to justify keeping the
> no longer used components in the rear cockpit. Then what about
> the rear brake disabling capability? What about the instrument
> failure simulator switches? Next question would be, do you always
> fly with a qualified pilot in the rear seat? If you had a
> non-pilot in the rear seat (happens much more than with a
> qualified pilot) do you really think the non qualified person is
> going to know what to do in the first place?
>
> Lastly, the Yak 52 can be landed gear up. The question is, can
> the person in the back seat REALLY land the airplane? Gear up OR
> gear down?
>
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263 <tel:334-285-6263>
> 334-546-8182 <tel:334-546-8182> (mobile)
> www.yak-52.com <http://www.yak-52.com>
> Skype - Yakguy1
>
> On 6/11/2013 7:55 AM, John Nolan wrote:
>
> When removing any components from the aft cockpit I would
> consider the possibility of pilot incapacitation in the
> forward cockpit with a person in the back.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Nolan
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 7:55 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net
> <mailto:dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
> <mailto:dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net
> <mailto:dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>>> wrote:
>
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net
> <mailto:dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
> <mailto:dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net
> <mailto:dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>>>
>
> Since neither the CJ nor the Yak 52, which have 100% identical
> gear and flap selectors for both front and rear cockpits,
> the rear
> cockpit gear and flap selectors are no longer used as was
> originally intended; as primary trainers. Therefore gear
> and flap
> selectors in the rear cockpit serve no functional benefit
> other
> than to pass the air pressure through them to the front
> cockpit. Why not fabricate a 3 valve and 5 valve bypass
> 'block' which could
> replace both of these "rarely ever used" components and
> eliminate
> potential failures in the pneumatic system?
>
> This is not difficult to do. In fact, I am pretty sure Jim
> Goolsby modified his rear gear selector and created a
> bypass. Thus
> he eliminated the potential failure of the unit. I personally
> fabricated a bypass configuration for one Yak 52 and
> completely
> removed the rear gear selector. Replacing a rear gear
> selector in
> a Yak 52 is far more difficult than on a CJ because the
> CJ's gear
> selector can be accessed from behind the front seat. In
> the Yak
> 52 you need a 10 year old skinny kid to get under the
> instrument
> panel.
>
> If you have never disassembled a rear gear selector after
> it has
> started leaking, you would not believe the rust and junk that
> accumulates inside this piece of equipment when it is
> never used.
> And many folks never even test them during the condition
> inspection. So they just sit there and corrode over time.
>
> My contention is, if it is not used and can and will cause
> pneumatic system problems, why not remove it from the
> system and
> eliminate the potential problem once and for all.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263 <tel:334-285-6263> <tel:334-285-6263
> <tel:334-285-6263>>
> 334-546-8182 <tel:334-546-8182> <tel:334-546-8182
> <tel:334-546-8182>> (mobile)
> www.yak-52.com <http://www.yak-52.com> <http://www.yak-52.com>
> Skype - Yakguy1
>
> On 6/10/2013 4:41 PM, doug sapp wrote:
>
> Mark,
> It has been my experience that 75% or more of the
> failures of
> QSF2A valves (3 port valves to you 52 types), and
> 12-5522-00
> (5 port valve) are caused not by moisture/rust but by
> grit and
> or pieces of rusted springs. Years of rusty springs
> and poor
> maintenance has resulted in the majority of the air
> systems
> out there being contaminated to some degree. To
> combat the
> base problem we switched to all stainless steel springs in
> most all of our valves quite some time ago. The secondary
> problem of contaminated pneumatic problems is harder
> to solve
> as flushing the system out is very difficult. We are
> experimenting with the installation of a second stainless
> steel desiccant filter installed just prior to the
> rear gear
> valve, if successful this should vastly extend the life of
> these expensive valves.
>
> Best,
> Doug
>
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV
> NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>>> wrote:
>
> G CIV
> NAVAIR,
> WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>>>
>
> Thanks for the expert advice Doug. I had never even
> considered that.
>
> By the way, there is an air filter of sorts in the
> YAK-50.
> It is
> located on the "T" air divider area where all the
> check
> valves are
> located (four of them). It appears to be a circular
> device with
> fittings at both ends and is possibly filled with
> something like steel
> wool. In any case, whatever was in mine came all to
> pieces and junked
> up the check valves.
>
> Again: Good advice on a better filter. Hmmm.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>>>
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>>>] On Behalf Of
> doug sapp
> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 14:44
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>>
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>>>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
>
> Cory,
> Mark is correct in all he said, however the valve
> which
> you have
> selected would be somewhat prone to problems if your
> upstream air
> system
> is not 100% free of foreign material, such as old std
> steel rusted
> spring parts, dirt, grease, etc. These valves are
> intended for use in
> clean environments, not the somewhat dirtier
> systems of
> the CJ6.
> Placing the valve just after a high quality filter
> would
> both extend
> it's life and lower the probability of reoccurring
> maintenance issues
> I'm sure.
>
> Best,
> Doug
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Bitterlich, Mark
> G CIV
> NAVAIR, WD
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>>> wrote:
>
>
> "Bitterlich, Mark
> G CIV
> NAVAIR,
> WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>>>
>
> Cory,
>
> Sorry to disagree, but just in the
> details. The
> valves that
> you referenced are indeed pop-off valves. They
> open to
> release or
> by-pass pressure to keep at a maintained value,
> exactly as
> does the
> pressure relief valve that is in there now. That
> said,
> they are
> of much
> better design and should work much better than the
> ones
> that are in
> there now, if you get one rated for the pressure
> and flow
> for our
> application.
>
> Taken from the company's web site:
>
> "Although this valve operates very similar
> to a
> relief valve
> which is usually designed to release pressure
> quickly as
> soon as
> the set
> pressure is exceeded , this valve is designed to
> relieve
> pressure more
> gradually with changes in flow resulting in fewer
> pressure
> spikes when
> the valve opens and closes. This is a
> direct-acting valve
> with an
> adjustable spring operating against a piston
> subjected to
> the inlet
> pressure of the valve. Increasing the spring
> compression
> will increase
> the system or line pressure to be maintained.
> Reducing the
> spring
> compression will reduce the system or line
> pressure to be
> maintained. "
>
> The summation:
>
> "An increase in system pressure beyond the set
> point will
> cause
> the main valve to open and relieve or bypass the
> excess
> pressure."
>
> This is EXACTLY how our present valves
> work, but
> these are
> easier to get and maintain.
>
> Mark
>
> p.s. Probably a darn good replacement.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>>>
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>>>] On Behalf Of
> Cory Robin
> Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2013 10:09
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>>
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>>>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
>
> I found a source of a back pressure relief
> valve.
> Rather
> than
> it popping off and reducing the pressure, it
> maintains the
> pressure at
> your pre-set value.
>
> I've ordered a couple to test them.
>
>
> https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regul
> ator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05
>
> <https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regul%0Aator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05>
>
>
> ==========
>
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
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> ==========
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>
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> ==========
>
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> ==========
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> ==========
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> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
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>
>
> *
>
>
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> ===================================
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> ===================================
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> ===================================
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ===================================
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Air system 'stuff' |
The good news with a YAK-52 is that if you kill the mags and land flaps
up you likely will do very little damage to the aircraft in a gear up
landing. This of course would depend on a GIB that understands this
concept and actually gives a s#%t at the time!
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: John Nolan
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
When removing any components from the aft cockpit I would consider the
possibility of pilot incapacitation in the forward cockpit with a person
in the back.
Regards,
John Nolan
On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 7:55 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Since neither the CJ nor the Yak 52, which have 100% identical gear
and flap selectors for both front and rear cockpits, the rear cockpit
gear and flap selectors are no longer used as was originally intended;
as primary trainers. Therefore gear and flap selectors in the rear
cockpit serve no functional benefit other than to pass the air pressure
through them to the front cockpit. Why not fabricate a 3 valve and 5
valve bypass 'block' which could replace both of these "rarely ever
used" components and eliminate potential failures in the pneumatic
system?
This is not difficult to do. In fact, I am pretty sure Jim Goolsby
modified his rear gear selector and created a bypass. Thus he eliminated
the potential failure of the unit. I personally fabricated a bypass
configuration for one Yak 52 and completely removed the rear gear
selector. Replacing a rear gear selector in a Yak 52 is far more
difficult than on a CJ because the CJ's gear selector can be accessed
from behind the front seat. In the Yak 52 you need a 10 year old skinny
kid to get under the instrument panel.
If you have never disassembled a rear gear selector after it has
started leaking, you would not believe the rust and junk that
accumulates inside this piece of equipment when it is never used. And
many folks never even test them during the condition inspection. So
they just sit there and corrode over time.
My contention is, if it is not used and can and will cause pneumatic
system problems, why not remove it from the system and eliminate the
potential problem once and for all.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 6/10/2013 4:41 PM, doug sapp wrote:
Mark,
It has been my experience that 75% or more of the failures of
QSF2A valves (3 port valves to you 52 types), and 12-5522-00 (5 port
valve) are caused not by moisture/rust but by grit and or pieces of
rusted springs. Years of rusty springs and poor maintenance has
resulted in the majority of the air systems out there being contaminated
to some degree. To combat the base problem we switched to all stainless
steel springs in most all of our valves quite some time ago. The
secondary problem of contaminated pneumatic problems is harder to solve
as flushing the system out is very difficult. We are experimenting with
the installation of a second stainless steel desiccant filter installed
just prior to the rear gear valve, if successful this should vastly
extend the life of these expensive valves.
Best,
Doug
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR,
WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>> wrote:
NAVAIR,
WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>
Thanks for the expert advice Doug. I had never even
considered that.
By the way, there is an air filter of sorts in the YAK-50. It
is
located on the "T" air divider area where all the check valves
are
located (four of them). It appears to be a circular device
with
fittings at both ends and is possibly filled with something
like steel
wool. In any case, whatever was in mine came all to pieces
and junked
up the check valves.
Again: Good advice on a better filter. Hmmm.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of
doug sapp
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 14:44
To: yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
Cory,
Mark is correct in all he said, however the valve which you
have
selected would be somewhat prone to problems if your upstream
air
system
is not 100% free of foreign material, such as old std steel
rusted
spring parts, dirt, grease, etc. These valves are intended
for use in
clean environments, not the somewhat dirtier systems of the
CJ6.
Placing the valve just after a high quality filter would both
extend
it's life and lower the probability of reoccurring maintenance
issues
I'm sure.
Best,
Doug
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV
NAVAIR, WD
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>
wrote:
CIV
NAVAIR,
WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>
Cory,
Sorry to disagree, but just in the details. The valves
that
you referenced are indeed pop-off valves. They open to
release or
by-pass pressure to keep at a maintained value, exactly as
does the
pressure relief valve that is in there now. That said, they
are
of much
better design and should work much better than the ones that
are in
there now, if you get one rated for the pressure and flow for
our
application.
Taken from the company's web site:
"Although this valve operates very similar to a relief
valve
which is usually designed to release pressure quickly as soon
as
the set
pressure is exceeded , this valve is designed to relieve
pressure more
gradually with changes in flow resulting in fewer pressure
spikes when
the valve opens and closes. This is a direct-acting valve with
an
adjustable spring operating against a piston subjected to the
inlet
pressure of the valve. Increasing the spring compression will
increase
the system or line pressure to be maintained. Reducing the
spring
compression will reduce the system or line pressure to be
maintained. "
The summation:
"An increase in system pressure beyond the set point
will
cause
the main valve to open and relieve or bypass the excess
pressure."
This is EXACTLY how our present valves work, but these
are
easier to get and maintain.
Mark
p.s. Probably a darn good replacement.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of
Cory Robin
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2013 10:09
To: yak-list@matronics.com
<mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
I found a source of a back pressure relief valve.
Rather
than
it popping off and reducing the pressure, it maintains the
pressure at
your pre-set value.
I've ordered a couple to test them.
https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regul
ator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05
<https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regul
%0Aator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05>
==========
rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
==========
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==========
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="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
==========
rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
==========
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==========
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="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
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Message 11
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|
| Subject: | Re: Air system 'stuff' |
As were talking about air system stuff =0ADoes any one know if the air star
t valve solenoid is polarity sensitive? The-wire plug connector can be at
tached both ways.-Took it out cleaned it now it doesn't work I have-vol
tage at the wire when start button is pushed, valve works when the lever is
pushed down? Just ordered new Batteries.=0ABill Wade=0A =0A=0A____________
____________________=0A From: Mark Davis <markdavis@wbsnet.org>=0ATo: yak-l
ist@matronics.com =0ASent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 10:20 AM=0ASubject: Re: Y
ak-List: Air system 'stuff'=0A =0A=0A=0A =0AThe good news with a YAK-52 is
that if you kill the =0Amags and land flaps up you likely will do very lit
tle damage to the aircraft in =0Aa gear up landing.- This of course would
depend on a GIB that understands =0Athis concept and actually gives a s#%t
at the time! =0A- =0AMark Davis =0AN44YK =0A- =0A- =0A----- Original
Message ----- =0A>From: John Nolan =0A>To: yak-list@matronics.com =0A>S
ent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 6:55 =0AAM =0A>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air syste
m 'stuff' =0A>=0A> =0A>When removing any components from the aft cockpit I
would consider the possibility of pilot incapacitation in the forward coc
kpit with a person in the back. =0A>=0A> =0A>Regards, =0A>=0A> =0A>John No
lan=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 7:55 AM, A. De
nnis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:=0A>=0A>--> Yak-List mess
age posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>=0A>>=0A>
>Since neither the =0A CJ nor the Yak 52, which have 100% identical gear
and flap selectors for =0A both front and rear cockpits, the rear cockp
it gear and flap selectors are =0A no longer used as was originally inte
nded; as primary trainers. Therefore =0A gear and flap selectors in the
rear cockpit serve no functional benefit =0A other than to pass the air
pressure through them to the front cockpit. =0A - Why not fabricate a
3 valve and 5 valve bypass 'block' which could =0A replace both of these
"rarely ever used" components and eliminate potential =0A failures in t
he pneumatic system?=0A>>=0A>>This is not difficult to do. =0A -In fac
t, I am pretty sure Jim Goolsby modified his rear gear selector =0A and
created a bypass. Thus he eliminated the potential failure of the unit. =0A
-I personally fabricated a bypass configuration for one Yak 52 and
=0A completely removed the rear gear selector. -Replacing a rear gear
=0A selector in a Yak 52 is far more difficult than on a CJ because the
CJ's =0A gear selector can be accessed from behind the front seat. -In
the Yak =0A 52 you need a 10 year old skinny kid to get under the instr
ument =0A panel.=0A>>=0A>>If you have never disassembled a rear gear sel
ector after it =0A has started leaking, you would not believe the rust a
nd junk that =0A accumulates inside this piece of equipment when it is n
ever used. And many =0A folks never even test them during the condition
inspection. -So they =0A just sit there and corrode over time.=0A>>=0A
>>My contention is, if it is not =0A used and can and will cause pneumat
ic system problems, why not remove it =0A from the system and eliminate
the potential problem once and for =0A all.=0A>>Dennis=0A>>=0A>>A. Denni
s Savarese=0A>>334-285-6263=0A>>334-546-8182-(mobile)=0A>>http://www.yak-
52.com/=0A>>Skype - =0A Yakguy1=0A>>=0A>>On 6/10/2013 4:41 PM, doug sapp
wrote:=0A>>=0A>>Mark,=0A>>>It has been my experience that 75% or more of
=0A the failures of QSF2A valves (3 port valves to you 52 types), and
=0A 12-5522-00 (5 port valve) are caused not by moisture/rust but by g
rit and =0A or pieces of rusted springs. -Years of rusty springs and
poor =0A maintenance has resulted in the majority of the air systems
out there =0A being contaminated to some degree. -To combat the base
problem we =0A switched to all stainless steel springs in most all of
our valves quite =0A some time ago. -The secondary problem of conta
minated pneumatic =0A problems is harder to solve as flushing the syst
em out is very difficult. =0A -We are experimenting with the install
ation of a second stainless =0A steel desiccant filter installed just
prior to the rear gear valve, if =0A successful this should vastly ext
end the life of these expensive =0A valves.=0A>>>=0A>>>Best,=0A>>>Doug
=0A>>>=0A>>>On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 12:10 PM, =0A Bitterlich, Mark G C
IV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>
lich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR,=0A>>>- - WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto
:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>=0A>>>=0A>>>- =0A - Thanks for the expe
rt advice Doug. -I had never even =0A considered that.=0A>>>=0A>>>
- - By the way, there is an air filter =0A of sorts in the YAK-50.
-It is=0A>>>- - located on the "T" =0A air divider area where a
ll the check valves are=0A>>>- - located =0A (four of them). -It
appears to be a circular device with=0A>>>- =0A - fittings at bot
h ends and is possibly filled with something like =0A steel=0A>>>-
- wool. -In any case, whatever was in mine came =0A all to pieces
and junked=0A>>>- - up the check =0A valves.=0A>>>=0A>>>- - Ag
ain: Good advice on a better filter. =0A -Hmmm.=0A>>>=0A>>>- - M
ark=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>- - =0A -----Original Message-----=0A>>>-
- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com=0A>>>- =0A - <mailto
:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>=0A>>>- =0A - [mailto:owner-y
ak-list-server@matronics.com=0A>>>- =0A - <mailto:owner-yak-list-s
erver@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of doug sapp=0A>>>- - Sent: Monday, Ju
ne 10, 2013 =0A 14:44=0A>>>- - To: yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:
yak-list@matronics.com>=0A>>>- - =0A Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air sy
stem 'stuff'=0A>>>=0A>>>- - =0A Cory,=0A>>>- - Mark is correct
in all he said, however the valve =0A which you have=0A>>>- - sel
ected would be somewhat prone to =0A problems if your upstream air=0A>
>>- - system=0A>>>- - is =0A not 100% free of foreign material
, such as old std steel rusted=0A>>>- =0A - spring parts, dirt, gr
ease, etc. -These valves are intended =0A for use in=0A>>>- - cl
ean environments, not the somewhat dirtier =0A systems of the CJ6.=0A>
>>- - Placing the valve just after a high =0A quality filter would
both extend=0A>>>- - it's life and lower the =0A probability of r
eoccurring maintenance issues=0A>>>- - I'm =0A sure.=0A>>>=0A>>>
- - Best,=0A>>>- - Doug=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>- =0A - On Mon, J
un 10, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, =0A WD=0A>>>
- - <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>> wrote
:=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>- - - - - - --> =0A Yak-List message po
sted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV=0A>>>- - =0A NAVAIR,=0A>>>- -
WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>=0A>>>=0A>
>>- =0A - - - - - Cory,=0A>>>=0A>>>- - - =0A
- - - Sorry to disagree, but just in the details. The =0A valves
that=0A>>>- - you referenced are indeed pop-off valves. =0A -Th
ey open to release or=0A>>>- - by-pass pressure to keep at =0A a m
aintained value, exactly as does the=0A>>>- - pressure relief =0A
valve that is in there now. -That said, they are=0A>>>- - of =0A
much=0A>>>- - better design and should work much better than the =0A
ones that are in=0A>>>- - there now, if you get one rated for the
=0A pressure and flow for our=0A>>>- - application.=0A>>>=0A>>>-
=0A - - - - - Taken from the company's web =0A site:
=0A>>>=0A>>>- - - - - - "Although this =0A valve operates
very similar to a relief valve=0A>>>- - which is =0A usually desig
ned to release pressure quickly as soon as=0A>>>- - =0A the set=0A
>>>- - pressure is exceeded , this valve is designed to =0A reliev
e pressure more=0A>>>- - gradually with changes in flow =0A result
ing in fewer pressure spikes when=0A>>>- - the valve opens =0A and
closes. This is a direct-acting valve with an=0A>>>- - =0A adjust
able spring operating against a piston subjected to the =0A inlet=0A>>
>- - pressure of the valve. Increasing the spring =0A compression
will increase=0A>>>- - the system or line pressure to =0A be maint
ained. Reducing the spring=0A>>>- - compression will =0A reduce th
e system or line pressure to be=0A>>>- - maintained. =0A "=0A>>>
=0A>>>- - - - - - The =0A summation:=0A>>>=0A>>>- -
- - - - "An increase =0A in system pressure beyond the set poi
nt will=0A>>>- - =0A cause=0A>>>- - the main valve to open and
relieve or bypass the =0A excess pressure."=0A>>>=0A>>>- - -
- - - This is =0A EXACTLY how our present valves work, but these
are=0A>>>- - easier =0A to get and maintain.=0A>>>=0A>>>- -
- - - - =0A Mark=0A>>>=0A>>>- - - - - - p.s. -Pr
obably =0A a darn good replacement.=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>- - - -
- =0A - -----Original Message-----=0A>>>- - - - - =0A
- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com=0A>>>- =0A - <mai
lto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>=0A>>>- =0A - [mailto:owne
r-yak-list-server@matronics.com=0A>>>- =0A - <mailto:owner-yak-lis
t-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Cory Robin=0A>>>- - - - -
- Sent: =0A Sunday, June 09, 2013 10:09=0A>>>- - - - - -
=0A To: yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>=0A>>>
- - =0A - - - - Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system =0A
'stuff'=0A>>>=0A>>>- - - - - - I found a source =0A of a
back pressure relief valve. - Rather=0A>>>- - =0A than=0A>>>-
- it popping off and reducing the pressure, it =0A maintains the pre
ssure at=0A>>>- - your pre-set =0A value.=0A>>>=0A>>>- - -
- - - I've ordered a =0A couple to test them.=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>
- - https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-
regul=0A>>>- =0A - ator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05=0A>>>
- - =0A <https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back
-pressure-regul%0Aator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>
>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>- =0A - - - - - ===
=========0A>>>- - - =0A - - - rget="_bla
nk">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List=0A>>>- =0A - -
- - - ============0A>>>- - http://forums.ma
tronics.com/=0A>>>- - - =0A - - - ========
====0A>>>- - - - - =0A - le, List Admin.=0A>>>-
- - - - - =0A ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion=0A>>>- =0A - - - - - =0A ========
====0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>
=0A>>>=0A>>>- =0A - ============0A>>>- -
rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List=0A>>>- =0A
- ============0A>>>- - http://forums.matron
ics.com/=0A>>>- - =0A ============0A>>>-
- le, List Admin.=0A>>>- - =0A ="_blank">http://www.matronics.
com/contribution=0A>>>- =0A - =0A =========
===0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>*=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>*=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>=
===========0A>>rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Yak-List=0A>>=================
====================0A>>http://forums
.matronics.com=0A>>==================
===================0A>>le, =0A List
=0A Admin.=0A>>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>>=
===========0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>href="http://ww
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-
List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ah
ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=============
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Air system 'stuff' |
Bill,
If I am not mistaken, a Cannon plug without a key-way indicates it can
be connected either way. Since it is nothing more than a solenoid with
power and ground being applied, it should work either way.
You can easily test it though with a 24 volt battery and some leads.
Connect them both ways and see if the solenoid engages or not.
Battery voltage has a significant effect on whether the solenoid engages
or not. Less than about 22 volts on the battery voltage instrument may
not engage the solenoid.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 6/11/2013 9:50 AM, bill wade wrote:
> As were talking about air system stuff
> Does any one know if the air start valve solenoid is polarity
> sensitive? The wire plug connector can be attached both ways. Took it
> out cleaned it now it doesn't work I have voltage at the wire when
> start button is pushed, valve works when the lever is pushed down?
> Just ordered new Batteries.
> Bill Wade
>
> *From:* Mark Davis <markdavis@wbsnet.org>
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 11, 2013 10:20 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
>
> The good news with a YAK-52 is that if you kill the mags and land
> flaps up you likely will do very little damage to the aircraft in a
> gear up landing. This of course would depend on a GIB that
> understands this concept and actually gives a s#%t at the time!
> Mark Davis
> N44YK
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* John Nolan <mailto:johnrobertnolan@gmail.com>
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 11, 2013 6:55 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
>
> When removing any components from the aft cockpit I would consider
> the possibility of pilot incapacitation in the forward cockpit
> with a person in the back.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Nolan
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 7:55 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net <mailto:dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>>
> wrote:
>
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net <mailto:dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>>
>
> Since neither the CJ nor the Yak 52, which have 100% identical
> gear and flap selectors for both front and rear cockpits, the
> rear cockpit gear and flap selectors are no longer used as was
> originally intended; as primary trainers. Therefore gear and
> flap selectors in the rear cockpit serve no functional benefit
> other than to pass the air pressure through them to the front
> cockpit. Why not fabricate a 3 valve and 5 valve bypass
> 'block' which could replace both of these "rarely ever used"
> components and eliminate potential failures in the pneumatic
> system?
>
> This is not difficult to do. In fact, I am pretty sure Jim
> Goolsby modified his rear gear selector and created a bypass.
> Thus he eliminated the potential failure of the unit. I
> personally fabricated a bypass configuration for one Yak 52
> and completely removed the rear gear selector. Replacing a
> rear gear selector in a Yak 52 is far more difficult than on a
> CJ because the CJ's gear selector can be accessed from behind
> the front seat. In the Yak 52 you need a 10 year old skinny
> kid to get under the instrument panel.
>
> If you have never disassembled a rear gear selector after it
> has started leaking, you would not believe the rust and junk
> that accumulates inside this piece of equipment when it is
> never used. And many folks never even test them during the
> condition inspection. So they just sit there and corrode over
> time.
>
> My contention is, if it is not used and can and will cause
> pneumatic system problems, why not remove it from the system
> and eliminate the potential problem once and for all.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263
> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
> http://www.yak-52.com/
> Skype - Yakguy1
>
> On 6/10/2013 4:41 PM, doug sapp wrote:
>
> Mark,
> It has been my experience that 75% or more of the failures
> of QSF2A valves (3 port valves to you 52 types), and
> 12-5522-00 (5 port valve) are caused not by moisture/rust
> but by grit and or pieces of rusted springs. Years of
> rusty springs and poor maintenance has resulted in the
> majority of the air systems out there being contaminated
> to some degree. To combat the base problem we switched to
> all stainless steel springs in most all of our valves
> quite some time ago. The secondary problem of
> contaminated pneumatic problems is harder to solve as
> flushing the system out is very difficult. We are
> experimenting with the installation of a second stainless
> steel desiccant filter installed just prior to the rear
> gear valve, if successful this should vastly extend the
> life of these expensive valves.
>
> Best,
> Doug
>
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV
> NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>> wrote:
>
> CIV NAVAIR,
> WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>>
>
> Thanks for the expert advice Doug. I had never even
> considered that.
>
> By the way, there is an air filter of sorts in the
> YAK-50. It is
> located on the "T" air divider area where all the
> check valves are
> located (four of them). It appears to be a circular
> device with
> fittings at both ends and is possibly filled with
> something like steel
> wool. In any case, whatever was in mine came all to
> pieces and junked
> up the check valves.
>
> Again: Good advice on a better filter. Hmmm.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>>
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>>] On Behalf
> Of doug sapp
> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 14:44
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
>
> Cory,
> Mark is correct in all he said, however the valve
> which you have
> selected would be somewhat prone to problems if your
> upstream air
> system
> is not 100% free of foreign material, such as old std
> steel rusted
> spring parts, dirt, grease, etc. These valves are
> intended for use in
> clean environments, not the somewhat dirtier systems
> of the CJ6.
> Placing the valve just after a high quality filter
> would both extend
> it's life and lower the probability of reoccurring
> maintenance issues
> I'm sure.
>
> Best,
> Doug
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G
> CIV NAVAIR, WD
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>> wrote:
>
>
> Mark G CIV
> NAVAIR,
> WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>>
>
> Cory,
>
> Sorry to disagree, but just in the details.
> The valves that
> you referenced are indeed pop-off valves. They open
> to release or
> by-pass pressure to keep at a maintained value,
> exactly as does the
> pressure relief valve that is in there now. That
> said, they are
> of much
> better design and should work much better than the
> ones that are in
> there now, if you get one rated for the pressure and
> flow for our
> application.
>
> Taken from the company's web site:
>
> "Although this valve operates very similar to
> a relief valve
> which is usually designed to release pressure quickly
> as soon as
> the set
> pressure is exceeded , this valve is designed to
> relieve pressure more
> gradually with changes in flow resulting in fewer
> pressure spikes when
> the valve opens and closes. This is a direct-acting
> valve with an
> adjustable spring operating against a piston subjected
> to the inlet
> pressure of the valve. Increasing the spring
> compression will increase
> the system or line pressure to be maintained. Reducing
> the spring
> compression will reduce the system or line pressure to be
> maintained. "
>
> The summation:
>
> "An increase in system pressure beyond the set
> point will
> cause
> the main valve to open and relieve or bypass the
> excess pressure."
>
> This is EXACTLY how our present valves work,
> but these are
> easier to get and maintain.
>
> Mark
>
> p.s. Probably a darn good replacement.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>>
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>>] On Behalf
> Of Cory Robin
> Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2013 10:09
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
>
> I found a source of a back pressure relief
> valve. Rather
> than
> it popping off and reducing the pressure, it maintains
> the pressure at
> your pre-set value.
>
> I've ordered a couple to test them.
>
>
> https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regul
> ator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05
>
> <https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regul%0Aator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05>
>
>
> ==========
>
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com/
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> ==========
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com/
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> ==========
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ===================================
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
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> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *http://www.ma====================
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
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> *
Message 13
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| Subject: | Air system 'stuff' |
Yes, it should be polarity sensitive even though I have never tested it
to that effect. We are talking DC here, so if we reverse the polarity,
the magnetic field will reverse as well. I never realized that the plug
could be connected both ways. Hmmm.
Connect an ohm-meter to the two pins on the solenoid and check to at
least see that you do not have an open, meaning make sure coil is not
dead.
Check cockpit volt meter and make sure when you press the start button
that you are not dropping voltage below say ... 20 volts minimum...
actually should stay up around 23 VDC or so, but even 20 volts (when
pushing the start button) should open the valve.
You checked for voltage to one pin on the feed plug, but did you check
the other pin with an ohm-meter and make sure it has a good reading to
ground? If you really want to be sure, connect about a 20 watt (or so)
light bulb across the two pins in the plug and make sure it lights when
you hit start. Realize that when you check for power on a plug like you
just did, it is being checked with zero load (no current flow). So if
you have a ton of resistance in the wire, it will still read the exact
voltage that you want to see. Meaning, voltage drop equals current
times resistance. So if E=IR and you have zero current ... zero times
anything is zero, so you will have no voltage drop. This rarely is a
concern because wires normally just fail open. But once in awhile it
can really bite you in the tail if you are not aware of it.
In any case, putting a light bulb across the two pins on the feed plug
puts a load on the wires. If the bulb lights up bright, you have good
wiring, if it glows dimly, you have high resistance somewhere. Simple.
Did you take it out and clean it because you were already having a
problem? Or just because ..... Usually problems of this nature are not
with the aircraft wiring, but with the device itself. A lot has already
been writing about these things.. you might want to check the archives.
Mark
p.s. Doug Sapp has new ones.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bill wade
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 10:51
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
As were talking about air system stuff
Does any one know if the air start valve solenoid is polarity sensitive?
The wire plug connector can be attached both ways. Took it out cleaned
it now it doesn't work I have voltage at the wire when start button is
pushed, valve works when the lever is pushed down? Just ordered new
Batteries.
Bill Wade
From: Mark Davis <markdavis@wbsnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
The good news with a YAK-52 is that if you kill the mags and land flaps
up you likely will do very little damage to the aircraft in a gear up
landing. This of course would depend on a GIB that understands this
concept and actually gives a s#%t at the time!
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: John Nolan <mailto:johnrobertnolan@gmail.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
When removing any components from the aft cockpit I would
consider the possibility of pilot incapacitation in the forward cockpit
with a person in the back.
Regards,
John Nolan
On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 7:55 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Since neither the CJ nor the Yak 52, which have 100%
identical gear and flap selectors for both front and rear cockpits, the
rear cockpit gear and flap selectors are no longer used as was
originally intended; as primary trainers. Therefore gear and flap
selectors in the rear cockpit serve no functional benefit other than to
pass the air pressure through them to the front cockpit. Why not
fabricate a 3 valve and 5 valve bypass 'block' which could replace both
of these "rarely ever used" components and eliminate potential failures
in the pneumatic system?
This is not difficult to do. In fact, I am pretty sure
Jim Goolsby modified his rear gear selector and created a bypass. Thus
he eliminated the potential failure of the unit. I personally
fabricated a bypass configuration for one Yak 52 and completely removed
the rear gear selector. Replacing a rear gear selector in a Yak 52 is
far more difficult than on a CJ because the CJ's gear selector can be
accessed from behind the front seat. In the Yak 52 you need a 10 year
old skinny kid to get under the instrument panel.
If you have never disassembled a rear gear selector
after it has started leaking, you would not believe the rust and junk
that accumulates inside this piece of equipment when it is never used.
And many folks never even test them during the condition inspection. So
they just sit there and corrode over time.
My contention is, if it is not used and can and will
cause pneumatic system problems, why not remove it from the system and
eliminate the potential problem once and for all.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
http://www.yak-52.com/
Skype - Yakguy1
On 6/10/2013 4:41 PM, doug sapp wrote:
Mark,
It has been my experience that 75% or more of
the failures of QSF2A valves (3 port valves to you 52 types), and
12-5522-00 (5 port valve) are caused not by moisture/rust but by grit
and or pieces of rusted springs. Years of rusty springs and poor
maintenance has resulted in the majority of the air systems out there
being contaminated to some degree. To combat the base problem we
switched to all stainless steel springs in most all of our valves quite
some time ago. The secondary problem of contaminated pneumatic problems
is harder to solve as flushing the system out is very difficult. We are
experimenting with the installation of a second stainless steel
desiccant filter installed just prior to the rear gear valve, if
successful this should vastly extend the life of these expensive valves.
Best,
Doug
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Bitterlich,
Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >>
wrote:
Mark G CIV NAVAIR,
WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >>
Thanks for the expert advice Doug. I had
never even considered that.
By the way, there is an air filter of sorts
in the YAK-50. It is
located on the "T" air divider area where
all the check valves are
located (four of them). It appears to be a
circular device with
fittings at both ends and is possibly filled
with something like steel
wool. In any case, whatever was in mine
came all to pieces and junked
up the check valves.
Again: Good advice on a better filter.
Hmmm.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >] On Behalf Of doug sapp
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 14:44
To: yak-list@matronics.com
<mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
Cory,
Mark is correct in all he said, however the
valve which you have
selected would be somewhat prone to problems
if your upstream air
system
is not 100% free of foreign material, such
as old std steel rusted
spring parts, dirt, grease, etc. These
valves are intended for use in
clean environments, not the somewhat dirtier
systems of the CJ6.
Placing the valve just after a high quality
filter would both extend
it's life and lower the probability of
reoccurring maintenance issues
I'm sure.
Best,
Doug
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 11:12 AM,
Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >>
wrote:
"Bitterlich, Mark G CIV
NAVAIR,
WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >>
Cory,
Sorry to disagree, but just in the
details. The valves that
you referenced are indeed pop-off valves.
They open to release or
by-pass pressure to keep at a maintained
value, exactly as does the
pressure relief valve that is in there now.
That said, they are
of much
better design and should work much better
than the ones that are in
there now, if you get one rated for the
pressure and flow for our
application.
Taken from the company's web site:
"Although this valve operates very
similar to a relief valve
which is usually designed to release
pressure quickly as soon as
the set
pressure is exceeded , this valve is
designed to relieve pressure more
gradually with changes in flow resulting in
fewer pressure spikes when
the valve opens and closes. This is a
direct-acting valve with an
adjustable spring operating against a piston
subjected to the inlet
pressure of the valve. Increasing the spring
compression will increase
the system or line pressure to be
maintained. Reducing the spring
compression will reduce the system or line
pressure to be
maintained. "
The summation:
"An increase in system pressure
beyond the set point will
cause
the main valve to open and relieve or bypass
the excess pressure."
This is EXACTLY how our present
valves work, but these are
easier to get and maintain.
Mark
p.s. Probably a darn good
replacement.
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >] On Behalf Of Cory Robin
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2013 10:09
To: yak-list@matronics.com
<mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system
'stuff'
I found a source of a back pressure
relief valve. Rather
than
it popping off and reducing the pressure, it
maintains the pressure at
your pre-set value.
I've ordered a couple to test them.
https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regul
<https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regu
l>
ator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05
<https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regu
l%0Aator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05
<https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regu
l%0Aator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05> >
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rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Air system 'stuff' |
Actually Mark-I've been having problem's-building air and a friend clea
ned his air starter and-reported very good results on higher RPM when sta
rting so I thought-as I'm messing with the air system and I've read it sh
ould be cleaned periodically (first time in 13 years)-I would take a look
, falls under if it isn't broke don't fix it! actually it was very clean.
-As for the building air seems to be from the pump to the check valve and
still chasing it, looking for a flex hose from the pump to the snot valve.
I will try the bulb thing and check for an open in solenoid. Thanks=0ABill
Wade=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: "Bitterlich, Mark
G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:29 AM=0ASubject: RE: Yak-List: Air syste
NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>=0A=0AYes, it should be polarity sen
sitive even though I have never tested it=0Ato that effect.- We are talki
ng DC here, so if we reverse the polarity,=0Athe magnetic field will revers
e as well.- I never realized that the plug=0Acould be connected both ways
.- Hmmm.- =0A=0AConnect an ohm-meter to the two pins on the solenoid an
d check to at=0Aleast see that you do not have an open, meaning make sure c
oil is not=0Adead.- =0A=0ACheck cockpit volt meter and make sure when you
press the start button=0Athat you are not dropping voltage below say ... 2
0 volts minimum...=0Aactually should stay up around 23 VDC or so, but even
20 volts (when=0Apushing the start button) should open the valve.- =0A=0A
You checked for voltage to one pin on the feed plug, but did you check=0Ath
e other pin with an ohm-meter and make sure it has a good reading to=0Agrou
nd?- If you really want to be sure, connect about a 20 watt (or so)=0Alig
ht bulb across the two pins in the plug and make sure it lights when=0Ayou
hit start.- Realize that when you check for power on a plug like you=0Aju
st did, it is being checked with zero load (no current flow).- So if=0Ayo
u have a ton of resistance in the wire, it will still read the exact=0Avolt
age that you want to see.- Meaning, voltage drop equals current=0Atimes r
esistance.- So if E=IR and you have zero current ... zero times=0Aanyth
ing is zero, so you will have no voltage drop.- This rarely is a=0Aconcer
n because wires normally just fail open.- But once in awhile it=0Acan rea
lly bite you in the tail if you are not aware of it.- =0A=0AIn any case,
putting a light bulb across the two pins on the feed plug=0Aputs a load on
the wires. If the bulb lights up bright, you have good=0Awiring, if it glow
s dimly, you have high resistance somewhere.- Simple.=0A=0A=0ADid you tak
e it out and clean it because you were already having a=0Aproblem?- Or ju
st because .....- Usually problems of this nature are not=0Awith the airc
raft wiring, but with the device itself.- A lot has already=0Abeen writin
g about these things.. you might want to check the archives.=0A=0A=0A=0AMar
k=0A=0Ap.s. Doug Sapp has new ones.- =0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AF
rom: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of bill wade=0ASent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 10:51=0A
=0AAs were talking about air system stuff =0ADoes any one know if the air s
tart valve solenoid is polarity sensitive?=0AThe wire plug connector can be
attached both ways. Took it out cleaned=0Ait now it doesn't work I have vo
ltage at the wire when start button is=0Apushed, valve works when the lever
is pushed down? Just ordered new=0ABatteries.=0ABill Wade=0A=0AFrom: Mark
Davis <markdavis@wbsnet.org>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Tuesday,
June 11, 2013 10:20 AM=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'=0A=0A
=0AThe good news with a YAK-52 is that if you kill the mags and land flaps
=0Aup you likely will do very little damage to the aircraft in a gear up=0A
landing.- This of course would depend on a GIB that understands this=0Aco
ncept and actually gives a s#%t at the time!=0A=0AMark Davis=0AN44YK=0A=0A
=0A=0A--- ----- Original Message ----- =0A--- From: John Nolan
<mailto:johnrobertnolan@gmail.com>- =0A--- To: yak-list@matronics.c
om =0A--- Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 6:55 AM=0A--- Subject: R
e: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'=0A=0A--- When removing any components
from the aft cockpit I would=0Aconsider the possibility of pilot incapacit
ation in the forward cockpit=0Awith a person in the back. =0A=0A--- R
egards,=0A=0A--- John Nolan=0A--- =0A=0A--- =0A=0A=0A-
-- On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 7:55 AM, A. Dennis Savarese=0A<dsavarese0812
@bellsouth.net> wrote:=0A--- =0A=0A--- --- --> Yak-List m
essage posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"=0A<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>=0A
--- --- =0A--- --- Since neither the CJ nor the Yak
52, which have 100%=0Aidentical gear and flap selectors for both front and
rear cockpits, the=0Arear cockpit gear and flap selectors are no longer us
ed as was=0Aoriginally intended; as primary trainers. Therefore gear and fl
ap=0Aselectors in the rear cockpit serve no functional benefit other than t
o=0Apass the air pressure through them to the front cockpit.- Why not=0A
fabricate a 3 valve and 5 valve bypass 'block' which could replace both=0Ao
f these "rarely ever used" components and eliminate potential failures=0Ain
the pneumatic system?=0A--- --- =0A--- --- This is
not difficult to do.- In fact, I am pretty sure=0AJim Goolsby modified h
is rear gear selector and created a bypass. Thus=0Ahe eliminated the potent
ial failure of the unit.- I personally=0Afabricated a bypass configuratio
n for one Yak 52 and completely removed=0Athe rear gear selector.- Replac
ing a rear gear selector in a Yak 52 is=0Afar more difficult than on a CJ b
ecause the CJ's gear selector can be=0Aaccessed from behind the front seat.
- In the Yak 52 you need a 10 year=0Aold skinny kid to get under the inst
rument panel.=0A--- --- =0A--- --- If you have neve
r disassembled a rear gear selector=0Aafter it has started leaking, you wou
ld not believe the rust and junk=0Athat accumulates inside this piece of eq
uipment when it is never used.=0AAnd many folks never even test them during
the condition inspection.- So=0Athey just sit there and corrode over tim
e.=0A--- --- =0A--- --- My contention is, if it is
not used and can and will=0Acause pneumatic system problems, why not remove
it from the system and=0Aeliminate the potential problem once and for all.
=0A--- --- Dennis=0A--- --- =0A--- ---
A. Dennis Savarese=0A--- --- 334-285-6263=0A--- ---
334-546-8182 (mobile)=0A--- --- http://www.yak-52.com/=0A-
-- --- Skype - Yakguy1=0A--- --- =0A--- --
- On 6/10/2013 4:41 PM, doug sapp wrote:=0A--- --- =0A=0A-
-- --- --- Mark,=0A--- --- --- It has bee
n my experience that 75% or more of=0Athe failures of QSF2A valves (3 port
valves to you 52 types), and=0A12-5522-00 (5 port valve) are caused not by
moisture/rust but by grit=0Aand or pieces of rusted springs.- Years of ru
sty springs and poor=0Amaintenance has resulted in the majority of the air
systems out there=0Abeing contaminated to some degree.- To combat the bas
e problem we=0Aswitched to all stainless steel springs in most all of our v
alves quite=0Asome time ago.- The secondary problem of contaminated pneum
atic problems=0Ais harder to solve as flushing the system out is very diffi
cult.- We are=0Aexperimenting with the installation of a second stainless
steel=0Adesiccant filter installed just prior to the rear gear valve, if
=0Asuccessful this should vastly extend the life of these expensive valves.
=0A--- --- --- =0A--- --- --- Best,=0A
--- --- --- Doug=0A--- --- --- =0A-
-- --- --- On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Bitterlich,=0A
Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil=0A<mailto:mark.bitterlich@n
avy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >>=0Awrote:=0A--- ---
--- =0A--- --- --- - - --> Yak-List message po
sted by: "Bitterlich,=0AMark G CIV NAVAIR,=0A--- --- ---
- - WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil=0A<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <m
ailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >>=0A--- --- --- =0A-
-- --- --- - - Thanks for the expert advice Doug.- I
had=0Anever even considered that.=0A--- --- --- =0A--
- --- --- - - By the way, there is an air filter of sorts
=0Ain the YAK-50.- It is=0A--- --- --- - - located
on the "T" air divider area where=0Aall the check valves are=0A---
--- --- - - located (four of them).- It appears to be a
=0Acircular device with=0A--- --- --- - - fittings at
both ends and is possibly filled=0Awith something like steel=0A---
--- --- - - wool.- In any case, whatever was in mine=0Aca
me all to pieces and junked=0A--- --- --- - - up the
check valves.=0A--- --- --- =0A--- --- --
- - - Again: Good advice on a better filter.=0AHmmm.=0A--- -
-- --- =0A--- --- --- - - Mark=0A---
--- --- =0A--- --- --- =0A--- ---
--- - - -----Original Message-----=0A--- --- --
- - - From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com=0A<mailto:owner-yak-l
ist-server@matronics.com> =0A--- --- --- - - <mailto:
owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com=0A<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matroni
cs.com> >=0A--- --- --- - - [mailto:owner-yak-list-se
rver@matronics.com=0A<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> =0A--
- --- --- - - <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
=0A<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >] On Behalf Of doug sapp
=0A--- --- --- - - Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 14:44
=0A--- --- --- - - To: yak-list@matronics.com=0A<mail
to:yak-list@matronics.com>=0A--- --- --- - - Subject:
Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'=0A--- --- --- =0A--
- --- --- - - Cory,=0A--- --- --- -
- Mark is correct in all he said, however the=0Avalve which you have=0A
--- --- --- - - selected would be somewhat prone to p
roblems=0Aif your upstream air=0A--- --- --- - - syst
em=0A--- --- --- - - is not 100% free of foreign mate
rial, such=0Aas old std steel rusted=0A--- --- --- -
- spring parts, dirt, grease, etc.- These=0Avalves are intended for use
in=0A--- --- --- - - clean environments, not the som
ewhat dirtier=0Asystems of the CJ6.=0A--- --- --- - -
Placing the valve just after a high quality=0Afilter would both extend=0A
--- --- --- - - it's life and lower the probability o
f=0Areoccurring maintenance issues=0A--- --- --- - -
I'm sure.=0A--- --- --- =0A--- --- ---
- - Best,=0A--- --- --- - - Doug=0A--- -
-- --- =0A--- --- --- =0A--- ---
--- - - On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 11:12 AM,=0ABitterlich, Mark G CI
V NAVAIR, WD=0A--- --- --- - - <mark.bitterlich@navy.
mil=0A<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >>
=0Awrote:=0A--- --- --- =0A--- --- ---
=0A--- --- --- - - - - - - --> Yak-List messa
ge posted by:=0A"Bitterlich, Mark G CIV=0A--- --- --- -
- NAVAIR,=0A--- --- --- - - WD" <mark.bitterlich@n
avy.mil=0A<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> >>=0A--- --- --- =0A--- --- --- -
- - - - - Cory,=0A--- --- --- =0A--- -
-- --- - - - - - - Sorry to disagree, but just in the
=0Adetails. The valves that=0A--- --- --- - - you ref
erenced are indeed pop-off valves.=0AThey open to release or=0A---
--- --- - - by-pass pressure to keep at a maintained=0Avalu
e, exactly as does the=0A--- --- --- - - pressure rel
ief valve that is in there now.=0AThat said, they are=0A--- ---
--- - - of much=0A--- --- --- - - better d
esign and should work much better=0Athan the ones that are in=0A---
--- --- - - there now, if you get one rated for the=0Apress
ure and flow for our=0A--- --- --- - - application.
=0A--- --- --- =0A--- --- --- - -
- - - - Taken from the company's web site:=0A--- ---
--- =0A--- --- --- - - - - - - "Althoug
h this valve operates very=0Asimilar to a relief valve=0A--- --
- --- - - which is usually designed to release=0Apressure quick
ly as soon as=0A--- --- --- - - the set=0A---
--- --- - - pressure is exceeded , this valve is=0Adesigned
to relieve pressure more=0A--- --- --- - - gradually
with changes in flow resulting in=0Afewer pressure spikes when=0A---
--- --- - - the valve opens and closes. This is a=0Adirect
-acting valve with an=0A--- --- --- - - adjustable sp
ring operating against a piston=0Asubjected to the inlet=0A--- --
- --- - - pressure of the valve. Increasing the spring=0Acompre
ssion will increase=0A--- --- --- - - the system or l
ine pressure to be=0Amaintained. Reducing the spring=0A--- ---
--- - - compression will reduce the system or line=0Apressure to
be=0A--- --- --- - - maintained. "=0A--- --
- --- =0A--- --- --- - - - - - - The
summation:=0A--- --- --- =0A--- --- ---
- - - - - - "An increase in system pressure=0Abeyond the set p
oint will=0A--- --- --- - - cause=0A--- --
- --- - - the main valve to open and relieve or bypass=0Athe ex
cess pressure."=0A--- --- --- =0A--- --- -
-- - - - - - - This is EXACTLY how our present=0Avalves wor
k, but these are=0A--- --- --- - - easier to get and
maintain.=0A--- --- --- =0A--- --- ---
- - - - - - Mark=0A--- --- --- =0A---
--- --- - - - - - - p.s.- Probably a darn good=0A
replacement.=0A--- --- --- =0A--- --- --
- =0A--- --- --- - - - - - - -----Original
Message-----=0A--- --- --- - - - - - - From:
=0Aowner-yak-list-server@matronics.com=0A<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matr
onics.com> =0A--- --- --- - - <mailto:owner-yak-list-
server@matronics.com=0A<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >=0A-
-- --- --- - - [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.
com=0A<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> =0A--- ---
--- - - <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com=0A<mailto:own
er-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >] On Behalf Of Cory Robin=0A---
--- --- - - - - - - Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2013 10:
09=0A--- --- --- - - - - - - To: yak-list@mat
ronics.com=0A<mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>=0A--- --- --
- - - - - - - Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system=0A'stuff'=0A
--- --- --- =0A--- --- --- - - -
- - - I found a source of a back pressure=0Arelief valve.- Rather
=0A--- --- --- - - than=0A--- --- --
- - - it popping off and reducing the pressure, it=0Amaintains the pr
essure at=0A--- --- --- - - your pre-set value.=0A-
-- --- --- =0A--- --- --- - - - -
- - I've ordered a couple to test them.=0A--- --- --
- =0A--- --- --- =0A--- =0Ahttps://straval.com/ca
tlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regul=0A<https://straval.com/c
atlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regu=0Al> =0A--- --
- --- - - ator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05=0A---
=0A<https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regu
=0Al%0Aator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05=0A<https://straval.com/catli
st-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regu=0Al%0Aator-piston-angle-valv
e-threaded-bps-05> >=0A--- --- --- =0A--- ---
--- =0A--- --- --- =0A--- --- --
- =0A--- --- --- =0A--- --- --- =0A
--- --- --- =0A--- --- --- - - -
- - - ============0A--- =0Arget="_blank
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List=0A<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Yak-List> =0A--- --- --- - - - - - -
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Air system 'stuff' |
Doug Sapp has the flexible hose from the compressor output check valve banjo
fitting to the snot bottle.
Dennis
________________________________
From: bill wade <bwade154@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tue, June 11, 2013 4:19:32 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
Actually Mark I've been having problem's building air and a friend cleaned his
air starter and reported very good results on higher RPM when starting so I
thought as I'm messing with the air system and I've read it should be cleaned
periodically (first time in 13 years) I would take a look, falls under if it
isn't broke don't fix it! actually it was very clean. As for the building air
seems to be from the pump to the check valve and still chasing it, looking for
a
flex hose from the pump to the snot valve. I will try the bulb thing and check
for an open in solenoid. Thanks
Bill Wade
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:29 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Yes, it should be polarity sensitive even though I have never tested it
to that effect. We are talking DC here, so if we reverse the polarity,
the magnetic field will reverse as well. I never realized that the plug
could be connected both ways. Hmmm.
Connect an ohm-meter to the two pins on the solenoid and check to at
least see that you do not have an open, meaning make sure coil is not
dead.
Check cockpit volt meter and make sure when you press the start button
that you are not dropping voltage below say ... 20 volts minimum...
actually should stay up around 23 VDC or so, but even 20 volts (when
pushing the start button) should open the valve.
You checked for voltage to one pin on the feed plug, but did you check
the other pin with an ohm-meter and make sure it has a good reading to
ground? If you really want to be sure, connect about a 20 watt (or so)
light bulb across the two pins in the plug and make sure it lights when
you hit start. Realize that when you check for power on a plug like you
just did, it is being checked with zero load (no current flow). So if
you have a ton of resistance in the wire, it will still read the exact
voltage that you want to see. Meaning, voltage drop equals current
times resistance. So if E=IR and you have zero current ... zero times
anything is zero, so you will have no voltage drop. This rarely is a
concern because wires normally just fail open. But once in awhile it
can really bite you in the tail if you are not aware of it.
In any case, putting a light bulb across the two pins on the feed plug
puts a load on the wires. If the bulb lights up bright, you have good
wiring, if it glows dimly, you have high resistance somewhere. Simple.
Did you take it out and clean it because you were already having a
problem? Or just because ..... Usually problems of this nature are not
with the aircraft wiring, but with the device itself. A lot has already
been writing about these things.. you might want to check the archives.
Mark
p.s. Doug Sapp has new ones.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bill wade
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 10:51
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
As were talking about air system stuff
Does any one know if the air start valve solenoid is polarity sensitive?
The wire plug connector can be attached both ways. Took it out cleaned
it now it doesn't work I have voltage at the wire when start button is
pushed, valve works when the lever is pushed down? Just ordered new
Batteries.
Bill Wade
From: Mark Davis <markdavis@wbsnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
The good news with a YAK-52 is that if you kill the mags and land flaps
up you likely will do very little damage to the aircraft in a gear up
landing. This of course would depend on a GIB that understands this
concept and actually gives a s#%t at the time!
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: John Nolan <mailto:johnrobertnolan@gmail.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
When removing any components from the aft cockpit I would
consider the possibility of pilot incapacitation in the forward cockpit
with a person in the back.
Regards,
John Nolan
On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 7:55 AM, A. Dennis Savarese
<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
<dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Since neither the CJ nor the Yak 52, which have 100%
identical gear and flap selectors for both front and rear cockpits, the
rear cockpit gear and flap selectors are no longer used as was
originally intended; as primary trainers. Therefore gear and flap
selectors in the rear cockpit serve no functional benefit other than to
pass the air pressure through them to the front cockpit. Why not
fabricate a 3 valve and 5 valve bypass 'block' which could replace both
of these "rarely ever used" components and eliminate potential failures
in the pneumatic system?
This is not difficult to do. In fact, I am pretty sure
Jim Goolsby modified his rear gear selector and created a bypass. Thus
he eliminated the potential failure of the unit. I personally
fabricated a bypass configuration for one Yak 52 and completely removed
the rear gear selector. Replacing a rear gear selector in a Yak 52 is
far more difficult than on a CJ because the CJ's gear selector can be
accessed from behind the front seat. In the Yak 52 you need a 10 year
old skinny kid to get under the instrument panel.
If you have never disassembled a rear gear selector
after it has started leaking, you would not believe the rust and junk
that accumulates inside this piece of equipment when it is never used.
And many folks never even test them during the condition inspection. So
they just sit there and corrode over time.
My contention is, if it is not used and can and will
cause pneumatic system problems, why not remove it from the system and
eliminate the potential problem once and for all.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
http://www.yak-52.com/
Skype - Yakguy1
On 6/10/2013 4:41 PM, doug sapp wrote:
Mark,
It has been my experience that 75% or more of
the failures of QSF2A valves (3 port valves to you 52 types), and
12-5522-00 (5 port valve) are caused not by moisture/rust but by grit
and or pieces of rusted springs. Years of rusty springs and poor
maintenance has resulted in the majority of the air systems out there
being contaminated to some degree. To combat the base problem we
switched to all stainless steel springs in most all of our valves quite
some time ago. The secondary problem of contaminated pneumatic problems
is harder to solve as flushing the system out is very difficult. We are
experimenting with the installation of a second stainless steel
desiccant filter installed just prior to the rear gear valve, if
successful this should vastly extend the life of these expensive valves.
Best,
Doug
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Bitterlich,
Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >>
wrote:
Mark G CIV NAVAIR,
WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >>
Thanks for the expert advice Doug. I had
never even considered that.
By the way, there is an air filter of sorts
in the YAK-50. It is
located on the "T" air divider area where
all the check valves are
located (four of them). It appears to be a
circular device with
fittings at both ends and is possibly filled
with something like steel
wool. In any case, whatever was in mine
came all to pieces and junked
up the check valves.
Again: Good advice on a better filter.
Hmmm.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >] On Behalf Of doug sapp
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 14:44
To: yak-list@matronics.com
<mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system 'stuff'
Cory,
Mark is correct in all he said, however the
valve which you have
selected would be somewhat prone to problems
if your upstream air
system
is not 100% free of foreign material, such
as old std steel rusted
spring parts, dirt, grease, etc. These
valves are intended for use in
clean environments, not the somewhat dirtier
systems of the CJ6.
Placing the valve just after a high quality
filter would both extend
it's life and lower the probability of
reoccurring maintenance issues
I'm sure.
Best,
Doug
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 11:12 AM,
Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >>
wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by:
"Bitterlich, Mark G CIV
NAVAIR,
WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >>
Cory,
Sorry to disagree, but just in the
details. The valves that
you referenced are indeed pop-off valves.
They open to release or
by-pass pressure to keep at a maintained
value, exactly as does the
pressure relief valve that is in there now.
That said, they are
of much
better design and should work much better
than the ones that are in
there now, if you get one rated for the
pressure and flow for our
application.
Taken from the company's web site:
"Although this valve operates very
similar to a relief valve
which is usually designed to release
pressure quickly as soon as
the set
pressure is exceeded , this valve is
designed to relieve pressure more
gradually with changes in flow resulting in
fewer pressure spikes when
the valve opens and closes. This is a
direct-acting valve with an
adjustable spring operating against a piston
subjected to the inlet
pressure of the valve. Increasing the spring
compression will increase
the system or line pressure to be
maintained. Reducing the spring
compression will reduce the system or line
pressure to be
maintained. "
The summation:
"An increase in system pressure
beyond the set point will
cause
the main valve to open and relieve or bypass
the excess pressure."
This is EXACTLY how our present
valves work, but these are
easier to get and maintain.
Mark
p.s. Probably a darn good
replacement.
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> >] On Behalf Of Cory Robin
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2013 10:09
To: yak-list@matronics.com
<mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system
'stuff'
I found a source of a back pressure
relief valve. Rather
than
it popping off and reducing the pressure, it
maintains the pressure at
your pre-set value.
I've ordered a couple to test them.
https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regul
<https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regu
l>
ator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05
<https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regu
l%0Aator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05
<https://straval.com/catlist-back-pressure-regulators/back-pressure-regu
l%0Aator-piston-angle-valve-threaded-bps-05> >
==========
rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Fwd: Parker pop-off in use on my CJ |
Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> Mark,
>>>
>>> I'm using a Parker pressure relief valve on my CJ, which I obtained from
Kevin Kimball. Check with them for prices if you are interested at some point.
My motives in exploring this were: A. Cleaner engine compartment and;
B. Longterm supportability of this particularly critical item. (I think that
supplies of NOS parts will eventually dry up.); C. Thought it would be an easy
installation---and it was.
>>>
>>> The unit was factory preset and certified to pop off at 750psi---but is easily
adjustable. It also has an outlet port which I connected to an unused smoke
fitting on the left exhaust stack. It is mounted on the firewall exactly where
the original valve was; uses the stock CJ tubing and fittings; with the pressure
inlet and check valves mounted on an AN cross. As the brass valve is
heavier than the original, I drilled three holes in the firewall and added plate
nuts for adel clamps to hold the valve. That was it for mods.
>>>
>>> This unit has proven to be reliable; stable in pressure maintenance; and much
cleaner in operation due to venting the bypass crud to the exhaust...rather
than dumping it on the firewall.
>>>
>>> I am out of the county and out of memory re: the Parker part #--- but will
be back in country late next week. I will be glad to post photos of my installation
on the list should anyone be interested.
>>>
>>> Buddy Moman
>>> Northport, Alabama
>>> N5616N
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
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