Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:02 AM - Re: Magnetos (Richard Goode)
2. 03:18 AM - Re: Magnetos (Cpayne)
3. 06:26 AM - Re: Re: Magnetos (Roger Kemp M.D.)
4. 09:39 AM - Re: Re: Magnetos (Walter Lannon)
5. 09:49 AM - Re: Re: Magnetos (\)
6. 11:18 AM - Re: Re: Magnetos (Joe Howse)
Message 1
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I am flattered that I should be thought an authority on magnetos
=93 but firstly I am not, but more importantly, we have virtually
no experience of the Chinese magnetos, simply because there are only, I
think, three CJ6 aircraft in all Europe, and to the best of my knowledge
no one has ever needed to change or examine the magnetos!
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
Sent: 29 June 2013 05:40
Subject: Yak-List: Magnetos
Hi All;
I have a question basically for Richard Goode and George Coy but also
for anyone else interested. It is a result of the following question
to me : ------ =9CCan I replace my M9F magneto on the M14P with a
DZ5 (Chinese) magneto?=9D.
My answer has been a qualified =9CNo, I don=99t think
it=99s a good idea=9D even though I know it has been done
and the reported results are good. This response has nothing to do
with the different timing requirements of a fixed spark mag. VS an auto
advance mag. which I try to explain to the questioner.
To the best of my knowledge there are only four versions of this
magneto: 1. The basic M9 of which the DZ5 is a license built copy
(though, I guess we could call that 2 versions), 2. The M9-25M, 3.
The M9-35M and 4. The M9F. Versions 1 & 2 are auto advance type with
a range of 23 to 27 degs. Version 3 is also auto advance but with an
extended range of 23 to 37 degs. and version 4 which is a fixed spark
magneto with no auto advance mechanism.
The basic M9 (DZ5) to the best of my knowledge is the standard magneto
on various engines with a maximum RPM of less than 2400. The M9-25M and
the M9-35M are approved alternates for the M14P and the M9-35M is the
standard magneto for the M14PF. Much of this is my observation and not
necessarily fully accurate.
Since the M14P and, presumably, the M14PF engines have a much higher
maximum RPM than the earlier versions I suspect that the M25M and the
M35M (in addition to the extended range of the latter) have a different
advance mechanism than the basic M9 (DZ5).
I expect there are different counter weights and/or return spring
tensions involved. Am I right or wrong? If wrong what is the actual
difference between the M9 and the M9-25M?
Have at it guys!!
Cheers;
Walt
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Message 2
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Walt,
I have been running CD-5's in M-14P's for about 13 years now and have recommended
them to anyone who will listen. More than once I rigged an M-14P with an M9F
on one side and a CD-5 on the other. Necessity the first time and to make a
point the 2nd time.
Of course the timing needs to be different. This I have documented in my "How to"
article you can find on the RPA/store/manuals page. The biggest advantage of
the CD-5 is the 'advance' which is really an auto retard that allows easy starts
and running at the optimal value of 28 degrees BTDC for full takeoff power.
CD-5's used to be a real bargain, but as the M9F prices have been rising to $1800
each, the Chinese must have noticed and raised prices too. Check with Doug
for latest prices.
I use the CD-5 as a basis for my Electronic Ignition conversion since it has the
"auto advance" feature.
Craig Payne
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: re: Magnetos |
Craig,
Send me your contact # off list to my email. Want to talk to you about your oil
filter/manifold. I am getting ready to put my oil cooler in the wing root on
my 50. Tom Johnson has one that he used but it does not appear to be available
on Ebay any longer. The other 50 + listed do not appear to be reasonable alternatives.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 29, 2013, at 5:14 AM, Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com> wrote:
>
> Walt,
>
> I have been running CD-5's in M-14P's for about 13 years now and have recommended
them to anyone who will listen. More than once I rigged an M-14P with an
M9F on one side and a CD-5 on the other. Necessity the first time and to make
a point the 2nd time.
>
> Of course the timing needs to be different. This I have documented in my "How
to" article you can find on the RPA/store/manuals page. The biggest advantage
of the CD-5 is the 'advance' which is really an auto retard that allows easy
starts and running at the optimal value of 28 degrees BTDC for full takeoff power.
>
> CD-5's used to be a real bargain, but as the M9F prices have been rising to $1800
each, the Chinese must have noticed and raised prices too. Check with Doug
for latest prices.
>
> I use the CD-5 as a basis for my Electronic Ignition conversion since it has
the "auto advance" feature.
>
> Craig Payne
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: re: Magnetos |
Thanks Craig;
For picking up my brain fart. Should have typed CD-5 rather than DZ5.
Walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Cpayne
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 3:14 AM
Subject: Yak-List: re: Magnetos
Walt,
I have been running CD-5's in M-14P's for about 13 years now and have
recommended them to anyone who will listen. More than once I rigged an M-14P
with an M9F on one side and a CD-5 on the other. Necessity the first time
and to make a point the 2nd time.
Of course the timing needs to be different. This I have documented in my
"How to" article you can find on the RPA/store/manuals page. The biggest
advantage of the CD-5 is the 'advance' which is really an auto retard that
allows easy starts and running at the optimal value of 28 degrees BTDC for
full takeoff power.
CD-5's used to be a real bargain, but as the M9F prices have been rising to
$1800 each, the Chinese must have noticed and raised prices too. Check with
Doug for latest prices.
I use the CD-5 as a basis for my Electronic Ignition conversion since it has
the "auto advance" feature.
Craig Payne
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: re: Magnetos |
I too have use CD-5 on my M-14p both as mixed (one of each) and dual. I ev
en ran a "generator" mag off the 3 cylinder M-14 where I changed out the ca
m from a Chinese mag into the mag to replace 3 lobed cam. It fit and worke
d perfectly well. I did this while waiting for the Russian mags coils to b
e redone.
Now I don't pretend this was perfectly engineered as to the theoretical sci
ence of ignition systems, but I could not tell any difference in performanc
e (I sure there was) the gages were normal, sounds, feel, fuel and oil burn
s were not any different. I operated in various combination for about 100
hours. Crazy? I guess but these engine are very basic (I'm a basic guy to
o i.e. simple minded more correctly) while I can understand that in pursuit
of perfection a lot can be done to these engines to make them "perfect" th
ey were not designed that way. That was why my M-14 came from the factory
with no oil ring but a scraper ring in the oil land of #3 cylinder, and ran
fine for 438 hours. Or why a Chinese mag ran just fine without a woodruff
key in the rotor shaft for 250 hours before the torque on the lock washer
cause it to shift and slip on the timing.
Right now I'm Payne's "second test pilot" (no nothing happened to the first
as it was Payne himself), testing his prototype electronic ignition and sp
ecial designed distributor cap. SFSG but he' in charge of that part.
Over the years we've watch this list cover the consternation's of members a
s they over came various problems. Some of us doing some plain shade tree
engineering if you will. A number of times a number have gone out a financ
ial limb to provide the rest of us with parts and services. GOD BLESS THEM
!!!
Man I love this list!!
BTW I'm in Cody, Wy flying the B-24. Spectacular views, BUT its "high, hot
, and heavy" and the turbo's are near flat out. :-]
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
-----Original Message-----
From: Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
Sent: Sat, Jun 29, 2013 4:18 am
Subject: Yak-List: re: Magnetos
Walt,
I have been running CD-5's in M-14P's for about 13 years now and have
ecommended them to anyone who will listen. More than once I rigged an M-14P
ith an M9F on one side and a CD-5 on the other. Necessity the first time an
d to
ake a point the 2nd time.
Of course the timing needs to be different. This I have documented in my "H
ow
o" article you can find on the RPA/store/manuals page. The biggest advantag
e of
he CD-5 is the 'advance' which is really an auto retard that allows easy st
arts
nd running at the optimal value of 28 degrees BTDC for full takeoff power.
CD-5's used to be a real bargain, but as the M9F prices have been rising to
1800 each, the Chinese must have noticed and raised prices too. Check with
Doug
or latest prices.
I use the CD-5 as a basis for my Electronic Ignition conversion since it ha
s the
auto advance" feature.
Craig Payne
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: re: Magnetos |
I also operated an M14P with CD-5 MAGS in my CJ6 for several years with good
results, no problems timing using the CD-5
advance timing chart.
Joe
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