Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:25 AM - Re: Magnetos (George Coy)
2. 05:39 AM - Re: CK gear checks (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 05:52 AM - Russian and Chinese engines (Richard Goode)
4. 09:42 AM - Oil leakage. (Cory Robin)
5. 09:51 AM - Re: Re: CK gear checks (doug sapp)
6. 10:11 AM - Re: Re: CK gear checks (A. Dennis Savarese)
7. 10:19 AM - Re: Re: CK gear checks (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
8. 10:22 AM - Re: Re: CK gear checks (doug sapp)
9. 10:29 AM - Re: Oil leakage. (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
10. 10:32 AM - Re: Re: CK gear checks (doug sapp)
11. 10:42 AM - Re: Re: CK gear checks (A. Dennis Savarese)
12. 10:52 AM - Re: Oil leakage. ()
13. 11:02 AM - Re: Oil leakage. (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
14. 12:17 PM - FW: CJ6 down in Maryland (Dave Strawn)
15. 12:56 PM - Re: Oil leakage. (Cory Robin)
16. 03:39 PM - Re: CK gear checks (keithmckinley)
17. 03:48 PM - Re: Oil leakage. (keithmckinley)
18. 06:38 PM - Re: Oil leakage. (Roger Kemp M.D.)
19. 08:59 PM - Re: Re: CK gear checks (Walter Lannon)
20. 11:08 PM - Official Yak-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
21. 11:11 PM - Official Yak-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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I do not know the DZ5 magnetos. I suspect they are same as the M9-35
mags that are used on the AI14 Engine. The Housai engine is identical to
the AI14 engine. Probably originally license built. The Kamov
helicopter engines all had the M9-35 and many of the M14P engines we
supplied had the M9-35 magneto. The basic difference to the airplane is
the starting system is different as it uses a =9Cvibrator=9D
style of start instead of the high voltage =9Cshower of
Sparks=9D. We often use the =9CSlick Start=9D for
these mags. The other difference as [pointed out is the initial timing
is different to accommodate the centrifugal advance system.
George Coy
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 12:40 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Magnetos
Hi All;
I have a question basically for Richard Goode and George Coy but also
for anyone else interested. It is a result of the following question
to me : ------ =9CCan I replace my M9F magneto on the M14P with a
DZ5 (Chinese) magneto?=9D.
My answer has been a qualified =9CNo, I don=99t think
it=99s a good idea=9D even though I know it has been done
and the reported results are good. This response has nothing to do
with the different timing requirements of a fixed spark mag. VS an auto
advance mag. which I try to explain to the questioner.
To the best of my knowledge there are only four versions of this
magneto: 1. The basic M9 of which the DZ5 is a license built copy
(though, I guess we could call that 2 versions), 2. The M9-25M, 3.
The M9-35M and 4. The M9F. Versions 1 & 2 are auto advance type with
a range of 23 to 27 degs. Version 3 is also auto advance but with an
extended range of 23 to 37 degs. and version 4 which is a fixed spark
magneto with no auto advance mechanism.
The basic M9 (DZ5) to the best of my knowledge is the standard magneto
on various engines with a maximum RPM of less than 2400. The M9-25M and
the M9-35M are approved alternates for the M14P and the M9-35M is the
standard magneto for the M14PF. Much of this is my observation and not
necessarily fully accurate.
Since the M14P and, presumably, the M14PF engines have a much higher
maximum RPM than the earlier versions I suspect that the M25M and the
M35M (in addition to the extended range of the latter) have a different
advance mechanism than the basic M9 (DZ5).
I expect there are different counter weights and/or return spring
tensions involved. Am I right or wrong? If wrong what is the actual
difference between the M9 and the M9-25M?
Have at it guys!!
Cheers;
Walt
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: CK gear checks |
Actually, with the front gear selector in the UP position, turn off the mai
n air valve, open the emergency air valve, (the gear will release and go li
mp), THEN put the front gear selector in the neutral position.- The gear
should go down and locked and you should see the 3 (or 2 as applicable) gre
en lights.- Turn off the emergency air valve.- Move the front gear sele
ctor to the DOWN position.- Now squeeze the brake handle until you no lon
ger hear the "woosh" when you release it and you hear the "fart" valve rele
ase (when the pressure is almost entirely depleted.=0A=0ANext, turn on the
main air valve and perform another normal gear retraction to ensure the shu
ttle or diverter valves have shifted back into position.- If you do not s
queeze off all the air in the system after using the emergency air, the nex
t time you attempt to retract the gear normally, the gear will not retract
into the up and locked position.=0A=0AHere is a link to the complete proced
ure on my web site: http://www.yak-52.com/maintena.htm#Gear%20Retraction%20
/%20Extension%20Test%20Procedure=0A=0ADennis=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________
________________=0A From: Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com>=0ATo: "
yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com> =0ASent: Monday, July 1, 2
013 12:10 AM=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: CK gear checks=0A =0A=0A--> Yak-List
message posted by: "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>=0A=0AKeith,
as remember per Dennis's method, after testing the main side place then. Pl
ace the gear handle in the neutral position. squeeze the brake leaver until
the system is depleted. Lower the gear handle and activate the emergency s
ide. =0ACorrect me if I'm wrong Dennis. =0ADoc=0A=0ASent from my iPad=0A=0A
On Jun 30, 2013, at 11:09 PM, "keithmckinley" <cetopfed@gmail.com> wrote:
>=0A> =0A> I am working with a local AI on my condition inspection. He has
no CJ experience and I'm looking for the proper method to test the gear. Th
e CJ maintenance manual and the Condition Inspection checklist from RPA (Cr
aig Payne) are different. I seem to recall the guy who did my annuals "blee
d" the gear up and down slowly. I'm not sure if this is a correct method to
test the emergency side.=0A> =0A> If any one has a good procedure they wou
ld share please drop me a line.=0A> =0A> I do have a set of 4 CJ jacks=0A>
=0A> Thank you,=0A> =0A> Keith McKinley=0A> =0A> keith@mckinley.us=0A> =0A>
--------=0A> Keith McKinley=0A> 700HS=0A> X26 Sebastian, FL=0A> =0A> =0A>
=0A> =0A> Read this topic online here:=0A> =0A> http://forums.matronics.com
/viewtopic.php?p=403673#403673=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A
=================
Message 3
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| Subject: | Russian and Chinese engines |
We have disassembled an HS6 engine and compared it to an AI 14, and were
very surprised by the large number of detail differences in most parts
of the engines. It is clear that the Chinese decided to "improve" the
engine in a variety of ways.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Coy
Sent: 01 July 2013 13:25
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Magnetos
I do not know the DZ5 magnetos. I suspect they are same as the M9-35
mags that are used on the AI14 Engine. The Housai engine is identical to
the AI14 engine. Probably originally license built. The Kamov
helicopter engines all had the M9-35 and many of the M14P engines we
supplied had the M9-35 magneto. The basic difference to the airplane is
the starting system is different as it uses a =9Cvibrator=9D
style of start instead of the high voltage =9Cshower of
Sparks=9D. We often use the =9CSlick Start=9D for
these mags. The other difference as [pointed out is the initial timing
is different to accommodate the centrifugal advance system.
George Coy
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 12:40 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Magnetos
Hi All;
I have a question basically for Richard Goode and George Coy but also
for anyone else interested. It is a result of the following question
to me : ------ =9CCan I replace my M9F magneto on the M14P with a
DZ5 (Chinese) magneto?=9D.
My answer has been a qualified =9CNo, I don=99t think
it=99s a good idea=9D even though I know it has been done
and the reported results are good. This response has nothing to do
with the different timing requirements of a fixed spark mag. VS an auto
advance mag. which I try to explain to the questioner.
To the best of my knowledge there are only four versions of this
magneto: 1. The basic M9 of which the DZ5 is a license built copy
(though, I guess we could call that 2 versions), 2. The M9-25M, 3.
The M9-35M and 4. The M9F. Versions 1 & 2 are auto advance type with
a range of 23 to 27 degs. Version 3 is also auto advance but with an
extended range of 23 to 37 degs. and version 4 which is a fixed spark
magneto with no auto advance mechanism.
The basic M9 (DZ5) to the best of my knowledge is the standard magneto
on various engines with a maximum RPM of less than 2400. The M9-25M and
the M9-35M are approved alternates for the M14P and the M9-35M is the
standard magneto for the M14PF. Much of this is my observation and not
necessarily fully accurate.
Since the M14P and, presumably, the M14PF engines have a much higher
maximum RPM than the earlier versions I suspect that the M25M and the
M35M (in addition to the extended range of the latter) have a different
advance mechanism than the basic M9 (DZ5).
I expect there are different counter weights and/or return spring
tensions involved. Am I right or wrong? If wrong what is the actual
difference between the M9 and the M9-25M?
Have at it guys!!
Cheers;
Walt
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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I have a difficult to locate oil leak somewhere that is giving the belly of
the beast a nice lube job.
Anyone have any tips or 'easy button' I can press to help me locate this
spitter? Top ten locations of leaks?
Cory Robin
'WilgaBeast' <http://www.facebook.com/skyvantage>
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| Subject: | Re: CK gear checks |
Keith,
If the air line restrictors, my part number H2-5500-02 have the proper hole
size and are in the correct places the gear should not slam up OR down. I
have the blank restrictors in stock if you need them. See vol #1 of the
parts books, fig 6-1 (Page 292 and on). Look for the word "DAMPER" in the
Nomenclature section. You will notice that some of the dampers have
different dash numbers, this is because they have differing hole sizes in
them. Gear transition speeds can to a degree be altered/changed by
increasing or decreasing the size of hole in the restrictor.
Best,
Doug
On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 10:20 PM, keithmckinley <cetopfed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Below was on the Yak List posted in 2007 and is pretty much the way it
> looks in the CJ maint manual.
> Just had heard about the airplane getting a little jumpy on the jacks....
>
>
> > 1) MAIN AIR- OPEN
> > 2) SELECT GEAR- UP
> > 3) VERIFY GEAR UP- CHECK UPLOCKS ETC
> > 4) MAIN AIR - CLOSE
> > 5) EMERGENCY AIR- OPEN QUICKLY
> > 6) VERIFY GEAR UNLOCKS FROM THE UP POSITION
> > The gear should be caught in between the up and down positions.
> > This is a good time to look over the gear swing action by hand.
> > 7) SELECT GEAR- NEUTRAL
> > VERIFY GEAR DOWN AND LOCKED
> > 9) EMERGENCY AIR- CLOSE
> > 10) SELECT GEAR- DOWN
> > 11) BLEED OFF SYSTEM PRESSURE FOR 2 MINUTES
> > I usually actuate the parking brake and alternate left and right rudder
> > until the "fart" valve releases.
> > It's important to wait a good minute after the valve releases to ensure
> > the emergency system is purged before engaging the main air system.
> > If there's any residual pressure in the emergency side the shuttle
> > valves on the gear may not switch over completely to the main system.
> > 12) MAIN AIR- OPEN
> > 13) SELECT GEAR- UP
> > 14) VERIFY GEAR UP
> > 15) SELECT GEAR- DOWN
> > 16) VERIFY GEAR DOWN AND LOCKED
> >
> > With best regards to all,
> > Cliff
> >
>
>
> --------
> Keith McKinley
> 700HS
> X26 Sebastian, FL
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403678#403678
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: CK gear checks |
Question Doug,
Does both the main AND emergency side of the pneumatic system associated
with the gear actuators have the restrictors in both sides (main and
emergency) or just the main side have them? In the Yak 52, it is only
the main side. When activating the emergency side gear extension test
in the 52, the gear WILL come down pretty hard. Thus the reason for
doing the gear retraction/extension test as I suggested.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 7/1/2013 11:48 AM, doug sapp wrote:
> Keith,
> If the air line restrictors, my part number H2-5500-02 have the proper
> hole size and are in the correct places the gear should not slam up OR
> down. I have the blank restrictors in stock if you need them. See
> vol #1 of the parts books, fig 6-1 (Page 292 and on). Look for the
> word "DAMPER" in the Nomenclature section. You will notice that some
> of the dampers have different dash numbers, this is because they have
> differing hole sizes in them. Gear transition speeds can to a degree
> be altered/changed by increasing or decreasing the size of hole in the
> restrictor.
>
> Best,
> Doug
>
> On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 10:20 PM, keithmckinley <cetopfed@gmail.com
> <mailto:cetopfed@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> <cetopfed@gmail.com <mailto:cetopfed@gmail.com>>
>
> Below was on the Yak List posted in 2007 and is pretty much the
> way it looks in the CJ maint manual.
> Just had heard about the airplane getting a little jumpy on the
> jacks....
>
>
> > 1) MAIN AIR- OPEN
> > 2) SELECT GEAR- UP
> > 3) VERIFY GEAR UP- CHECK UPLOCKS ETC
> > 4) MAIN AIR - CLOSE
> > 5) EMERGENCY AIR- OPEN QUICKLY
> > 6) VERIFY GEAR UNLOCKS FROM THE UP POSITION
> > The gear should be caught in between the up and down positions.
> > This is a good time to look over the gear swing action by hand.
> > 7) SELECT GEAR- NEUTRAL
> > VERIFY GEAR DOWN AND LOCKED
> > 9) EMERGENCY AIR- CLOSE
> > 10) SELECT GEAR- DOWN
> > 11) BLEED OFF SYSTEM PRESSURE FOR 2 MINUTES
> > I usually actuate the parking brake and alternate left and right
> rudder
> > until the "fart" valve releases.
> > It's important to wait a good minute after the valve releases to
> ensure
> > the emergency system is purged before engaging the main air system.
> > If there's any residual pressure in the emergency side the shuttle
> > valves on the gear may not switch over completely to the main
> system.
> > 12) MAIN AIR- OPEN
> > 13) SELECT GEAR- UP
> > 14) VERIFY GEAR UP
> > 15) SELECT GEAR- DOWN
> > 16) VERIFY GEAR DOWN AND LOCKED
> >
> > With best regards to all,
> > Cliff
> >
>
>
> --------
> Keith McKinley
> 700HS
> X26 Sebastian, FL
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403678#403678
>
>
> ==========
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
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| Subject: | Re: CK gear checks |
Doug, does the CJ-6 have flow restrictors in both the normal *AND* the
emergency hoses going to the actuators? I really do not know.
On the YAK aircraft, the Emergency Side hoses do *NOT* have any flow
restrictors, (on the 50 anyway) and with good purpose. If you have a
blown chevron seal, restricting air flow in any way can mean the gear
will not come down and lock. The idea (from the Russians) is that if
you have a real emergency with the gear, you want all the flow the
system can generate, and who cares if they "slam" or not, thus no flow
restrictors on the emergency side and thus why you have to be careful
when actuating emergency gear valve while on jacks. This is how it was
explained to me by two Russian Mechs anyway, so take it with a grain of
salt.
Glad to know about you have the blank restrictors! I very carefully
trimmed my holes to allow the gear to go up and down almost perfectly in
sync. Why this mattered to me I have no idea, as it really doesn't make
much difference. :-)
Mark
p.s. I just see Dennis asked the same thing!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 12:48
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: CK gear checks
Keith,
If the air line restrictors, my part number H2-5500-02 have the proper
hole size and are in the correct places the gear should not slam up OR
down. I have the blank restrictors in stock if you need them. See vol
#1 of the parts books, fig 6-1 (Page 292 and on). Look for the word
"DAMPER" in the Nomenclature section. You will notice that some of the
dampers have different dash numbers, this is because they have differing
hole sizes in them. Gear transition speeds can to a degree be
altered/changed by increasing or decreasing the size of hole in the
restrictor.
Best,
Doug
On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 10:20 PM, keithmckinley <cetopfed@gmail.com>
wrote:
<cetopfed@gmail.com>
Below was on the Yak List posted in 2007 and is pretty much the
way it looks in the CJ maint manual.
Just had heard about the airplane getting a little jumpy on the
jacks....
> 1) MAIN AIR- OPEN
> 2) SELECT GEAR- UP
> 3) VERIFY GEAR UP- CHECK UPLOCKS ETC
> 4) MAIN AIR - CLOSE
> 5) EMERGENCY AIR- OPEN QUICKLY
> 6) VERIFY GEAR UNLOCKS FROM THE UP POSITION
> The gear should be caught in between the up and down
positions.
> This is a good time to look over the gear swing action by
hand.
> 7) SELECT GEAR- NEUTRAL
> VERIFY GEAR DOWN AND LOCKED
> 9) EMERGENCY AIR- CLOSE
> 10) SELECT GEAR- DOWN
> 11) BLEED OFF SYSTEM PRESSURE FOR 2 MINUTES
> I usually actuate the parking brake and alternate left and
right rudder
> until the "fart" valve releases.
> It's important to wait a good minute after the valve releases
to ensure
> the emergency system is purged before engaging the main air
system.
> If there's any residual pressure in the emergency side the
shuttle
> valves on the gear may not switch over completely to the main
system.
> 12) MAIN AIR- OPEN
> 13) SELECT GEAR- UP
> 14) VERIFY GEAR UP
> 15) SELECT GEAR- DOWN
> 16) VERIFY GEAR DOWN AND LOCKED
>
> With best regards to all,
> Cliff
>
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
X26 Sebastian, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403678#403678
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==========
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="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: CK gear checks |
I would have to check to make sure but I think the restrictors are on both
sides. They may have differing hole sizes, I am just guessing here, as I
said would have to check to make sure. May have a moment later today,
Mondays are crazy busy.
Doug
On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 10:07 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> Question Doug,
> Does both the main AND emergency side of the pneumatic system associated
> with the gear actuators have the restrictors in both sides (main and
> emergency) or just the main side have them? In the Yak 52, it is only the
> main side. When activating the emergency side gear extension test in the
> 52, the gear WILL come down pretty hard. Thus the reason for doing the
> gear retraction/extension test as I suggested.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263
> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
> www.yak-52.com
> Skype - Yakguy1
>
>
> On 7/1/2013 11:48 AM, doug sapp wrote:
>
>> Keith,
>> If the air line restrictors, my part number H2-5500-02 have the proper
>> hole size and are in the correct places the gear should not slam up OR
>> down. I have the blank restrictors in stock if you need them. See vol #1
>> of the parts books, fig 6-1 (Page 292 and on). Look for the word "DAMPER"
>> in the Nomenclature section. You will notice that some of the dampers have
>> different dash numbers, this is because they have differing hole sizes in
>> them. Gear transition speeds can to a degree be altered/changed by
>> increasing or decreasing the size of hole in the restrictor.
>>
>> Best,
>> Doug
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 10:20 PM, keithmckinley <cetopfed@gmail.com<mailto:
>> cetopfed@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> <cetopfed@gmail.com <mailto:cetopfed@gmail.com>>
>>
>>
>> Below was on the Yak List posted in 2007 and is pretty much the
>> way it looks in the CJ maint manual.
>> Just had heard about the airplane getting a little jumpy on the
>> jacks....
>>
>>
>>
>> > 1) MAIN AIR- OPEN
>> > 2) SELECT GEAR- UP
>> > 3) VERIFY GEAR UP- CHECK UPLOCKS ETC
>> > 4) MAIN AIR - CLOSE
>> > 5) EMERGENCY AIR- OPEN QUICKLY
>> > 6) VERIFY GEAR UNLOCKS FROM THE UP POSITION
>> > The gear should be caught in between the up and down positions.
>> > This is a good time to look over the gear swing action by hand.
>> > 7) SELECT GEAR- NEUTRAL
>> > VERIFY GEAR DOWN AND LOCKED
>> > 9) EMERGENCY AIR- CLOSE
>> > 10) SELECT GEAR- DOWN
>> > 11) BLEED OFF SYSTEM PRESSURE FOR 2 MINUTES
>> > I usually actuate the parking brake and alternate left and right
>> rudder
>> > until the "fart" valve releases.
>> > It's important to wait a good minute after the valve releases to
>> ensure
>> > the emergency system is purged before engaging the main air system.
>> > If there's any residual pressure in the emergency side the shuttle
>> > valves on the gear may not switch over completely to the main
>> system.
>> > 12) MAIN AIR- OPEN
>> > 13) SELECT GEAR- UP
>> > 14) VERIFY GEAR UP
>> > 15) SELECT GEAR- DOWN
>> > 16) VERIFY GEAR DOWN AND LOCKED
>> >
>> > With best regards to all,
>> > Cliff
>> >
>>
>>
>> --------
>> Keith McKinley
>> 700HS
>> X26 Sebastian, FL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/**viewtopic.php?p=403678#403678<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403678#403678>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> rget="_blank">http://www.**matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-**List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List>
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Message 9
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What I normally do is to remove top and lower cowls, get ALL the oil off the engine
and firewall, start it up and have a guy with a ladder behind the prop to
very carefully inspect the engine when it is running. Yes, it is dangerous..
but.....
I recently had an oil leak that for all the world looked like it was the rear supercharger
seal. I was crushed. That seal can only be replaced by yanking the
engine and taking a lot of stuff apart.
Guess what? Turns out it was the freaking lower GENERATOR adapter plate that was
leaking. Why? Because even with the standard "bend up and lock" Russian nut
locks, all four nuts had come loose on the generator studs, allowing the oil
to leak out of the lower generator adapter plate. I replaced the seals, and
put the nuts back on the studs with split ring lock wasters and also thread sealer
and am keeping a close eye on them. Thinking about drilling some nuts so
I can safety wire those suckers.
Otherwise normal oil leaks are from the valve rocker covers, the valve rocker shaft
crush washers, etc.
Bottom line, the only way I've ever found to find the leaks is to have the engine
totally clean and then run it on the desk with a guy that has good eyes looking
at it. Oil leaks can be insidious.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cory Robin
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 12:31
Subject: Yak-List: Oil leakage.
I have a difficult to locate oil leak somewhere that is giving the belly of the
beast a nice lube job.
Anyone have any tips or 'easy button' I can press to help me locate this spitter?
Top ten locations of leaks?
Cory Robin
'WilgaBeast' <http://www.facebook.com/skyvantage>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: CK gear checks |
Guys,
I would think you are correct and my better judgement tells me that
restrictors on the down side of the emergency system would not be a good
idea. Rather or not the CJ books call out the need for them I really at
this point do not know.
Best,
Doug
On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
> mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Doug, does the CJ-6 have flow restrictors in both the normal *AND* the
> emergency hoses going to the actuators? I really do not know.
>
> On the YAK aircraft, the Emergency Side hoses do *NOT* have any flow
> restrictors, (on the 50 anyway) and with good purpose. If you have a
> blown chevron seal, restricting air flow in any way can mean the gear
> will not come down and lock. The idea (from the Russians) is that if
> you have a real emergency with the gear, you want all the flow the
> system can generate, and who cares if they "slam" or not, thus no flow
> restrictors on the emergency side and thus why you have to be careful
> when actuating emergency gear valve while on jacks. This is how it was
> explained to me by two Russian Mechs anyway, so take it with a grain of
> salt.
>
> Glad to know about you have the blank restrictors! I very carefully
> trimmed my holes to allow the gear to go up and down almost perfectly in
> sync. Why this mattered to me I have no idea, as it really doesn't make
> much difference. :-)
>
> Mark
>
> p.s. I just see Dennis asked the same thing!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp
> Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 12:48
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: CK gear checks
>
> Keith,
> If the air line restrictors, my part number H2-5500-02 have the proper
> hole size and are in the correct places the gear should not slam up OR
> down. I have the blank restrictors in stock if you need them. See vol
> #1 of the parts books, fig 6-1 (Page 292 and on). Look for the word
> "DAMPER" in the Nomenclature section. You will notice that some of the
> dampers have different dash numbers, this is because they have differing
> hole sizes in them. Gear transition speeds can to a degree be
> altered/changed by increasing or decreasing the size of hole in the
> restrictor.
>
> Best,
> Doug
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 10:20 PM, keithmckinley <cetopfed@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> <cetopfed@gmail.com>
>
> Below was on the Yak List posted in 2007 and is pretty much the
> way it looks in the CJ maint manual.
> Just had heard about the airplane getting a little jumpy on the
> jacks....
>
>
> > 1) MAIN AIR- OPEN
> > 2) SELECT GEAR- UP
> > 3) VERIFY GEAR UP- CHECK UPLOCKS ETC
> > 4) MAIN AIR - CLOSE
> > 5) EMERGENCY AIR- OPEN QUICKLY
> > 6) VERIFY GEAR UNLOCKS FROM THE UP POSITION
> > The gear should be caught in between the up and down
> positions.
> > This is a good time to look over the gear swing action by
> hand.
> > 7) SELECT GEAR- NEUTRAL
> > VERIFY GEAR DOWN AND LOCKED
> > 9) EMERGENCY AIR- CLOSE
> > 10) SELECT GEAR- DOWN
> > 11) BLEED OFF SYSTEM PRESSURE FOR 2 MINUTES
> > I usually actuate the parking brake and alternate left and
> right rudder
> > until the "fart" valve releases.
> > It's important to wait a good minute after the valve releases
> to ensure
> > the emergency system is purged before engaging the main air
> system.
> > If there's any residual pressure in the emergency side the
> shuttle
> > valves on the gear may not switch over completely to the main
> system.
> > 12) MAIN AIR- OPEN
> > 13) SELECT GEAR- UP
> > 14) VERIFY GEAR UP
> > 15) SELECT GEAR- DOWN
> > 16) VERIFY GEAR DOWN AND LOCKED
> >
> > With best regards to all,
> > Cliff
> >
>
>
> --------
> Keith McKinley
> 700HS
> X26 Sebastian, FL
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403678#403678
>
>
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> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
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> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: CK gear checks |
Completely agree with you on that Doug.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 7/1/2013 12:28 PM, doug sapp wrote:
> Guys,
> I would think you are correct and my better judgement tells me that
> restrictors on the down side of the emergency system would not be a
> good idea. Rather or not the CJ books call out the need for them I
> really at this point do not know.
>
> Best,
> Doug
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>> wrote:
>
> WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>
>
> Doug, does the CJ-6 have flow restrictors in both the normal *AND* the
> emergency hoses going to the actuators? I really do not know.
>
> On the YAK aircraft, the Emergency Side hoses do *NOT* have any flow
> restrictors, (on the 50 anyway) and with good purpose. If you have a
> blown chevron seal, restricting air flow in any way can mean the gear
> will not come down and lock. The idea (from the Russians) is that if
> you have a real emergency with the gear, you want all the flow the
> system can generate, and who cares if they "slam" or not, thus no flow
> restrictors on the emergency side and thus why you have to be careful
> when actuating emergency gear valve while on jacks. This is how
> it was
> explained to me by two Russian Mechs anyway, so take it with a
> grain of
> salt.
>
> Glad to know about you have the blank restrictors! I very carefully
> trimmed my holes to allow the gear to go up and down almost
> perfectly in
> sync. Why this mattered to me I have no idea, as it really
> doesn't make
> much difference. :-)
>
> Mark
>
> p.s. I just see Dennis asked the same thing!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of doug sapp
> Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 12:48
> To: yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: CK gear checks
>
> Keith,
> If the air line restrictors, my part number H2-5500-02 have the proper
> hole size and are in the correct places the gear should not slam up OR
> down. I have the blank restrictors in stock if you need them.
> See vol
> #1 of the parts books, fig 6-1 (Page 292 and on). Look for the word
> "DAMPER" in the Nomenclature section. You will notice that some
> of the
> dampers have different dash numbers, this is because they have
> differing
> hole sizes in them. Gear transition speeds can to a degree be
> altered/changed by increasing or decreasing the size of hole in the
> restrictor.
>
> Best,
> Doug
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 10:20 PM, keithmckinley
> <cetopfed@gmail.com <mailto:cetopfed@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
>
> <cetopfed@gmail.com <mailto:cetopfed@gmail.com>>
>
> Below was on the Yak List posted in 2007 and is pretty
> much the
> way it looks in the CJ maint manual.
> Just had heard about the airplane getting a little jumpy
> on the
> jacks....
>
>
> > 1) MAIN AIR- OPEN
> > 2) SELECT GEAR- UP
> > 3) VERIFY GEAR UP- CHECK UPLOCKS ETC
> > 4) MAIN AIR - CLOSE
> > 5) EMERGENCY AIR- OPEN QUICKLY
> > 6) VERIFY GEAR UNLOCKS FROM THE UP POSITION
> > The gear should be caught in between the up and down
> positions.
> > This is a good time to look over the gear swing action by
> hand.
> > 7) SELECT GEAR- NEUTRAL
> > VERIFY GEAR DOWN AND LOCKED
> > 9) EMERGENCY AIR- CLOSE
> > 10) SELECT GEAR- DOWN
> > 11) BLEED OFF SYSTEM PRESSURE FOR 2 MINUTES
> > I usually actuate the parking brake and alternate left and
> right rudder
> > until the "fart" valve releases.
> > It's important to wait a good minute after the valve
> releases
> to ensure
> > the emergency system is purged before engaging the main air
> system.
> > If there's any residual pressure in the emergency side the
> shuttle
> > valves on the gear may not switch over completely to the
> main
> system.
> > 12) MAIN AIR- OPEN
> > 13) SELECT GEAR- UP
> > 14) VERIFY GEAR UP
> > 15) SELECT GEAR- DOWN
> > 16) VERIFY GEAR DOWN AND LOCKED
> >
> > With best regards to all,
> > Cliff
> >
>
>
> --------
> Keith McKinley
> 700HS
> X26 Sebastian, FL
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403678#403678
>
>
> ==========
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> ==
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Oil leakage. |
I have a leaky oil tank drain valve that initially only leaked when the oil
was hot. It took a while to find the source of all the oil on the aircraft
belly. I have a replace valve, but have not found a way to remove the old
valve without removing the tank.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 1:24 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil leakage.
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
What I normally do is to remove top and lower cowls, get ALL the oil off the
engine and firewall, start it up and have a guy with a ladder behind the
prop to very carefully inspect the engine when it is running. Yes, it is
dangerous.. but.....
I recently had an oil leak that for all the world looked like it was the
rear supercharger seal. I was crushed. That seal can only be replaced by
yanking the engine and taking a lot of stuff apart.
Guess what? Turns out it was the freaking lower GENERATOR adapter plate
that was leaking. Why? Because even with the standard "bend up and lock"
Russian nut locks, all four nuts had come loose on the generator studs,
allowing the oil to leak out of the lower generator adapter plate. I
replaced the seals, and put the nuts back on the studs with split ring lock
wasters and also thread sealer and am keeping a close eye on them. Thinking
about drilling some nuts so I can safety wire those suckers.
Otherwise normal oil leaks are from the valve rocker covers, the valve
rocker shaft crush washers, etc.
Bottom line, the only way I've ever found to find the leaks is to have the
engine totally clean and then run it on the desk with a guy that has good
eyes looking at it. Oil leaks can be insidious.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cory Robin
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 12:31
Subject: Yak-List: Oil leakage.
I have a difficult to locate oil leak somewhere that is giving the belly of
the beast a nice lube job.
Anyone have any tips or 'easy button' I can press to help me locate this
spitter? Top ten locations of leaks?
Cory Robin
'WilgaBeast' <http://www.facebook.com/skyvantage>
Message 13
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|
Good one! I forgot about that source! Another one is the sump drain on the nose
of the engine. That can leak too.
Mark
p.s. Actually, it's hard to name all the possible sources ...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimmy@pfmengineering.com
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 13:49
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil leakage.
I have a leaky oil tank drain valve that initially only leaked when the oil was
hot. It took a while to find the source of all the oil on the aircraft belly.
I have a replace valve, but have not found a way to remove the old valve without
removing the tank.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 1:24 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Oil leakage.
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
What I normally do is to remove top and lower cowls, get ALL the oil off the engine
and firewall, start it up and have a guy with a ladder behind the prop to
very carefully inspect the engine when it is running. Yes, it is dangerous..
but.....
I recently had an oil leak that for all the world looked like it was the rear supercharger
seal. I was crushed. That seal can only be replaced by yanking the
engine and taking a lot of stuff apart.
Guess what? Turns out it was the freaking lower GENERATOR adapter plate that was
leaking. Why? Because even with the standard "bend up and lock"
Russian nut locks, all four nuts had come loose on the generator studs, allowing
the oil to leak out of the lower generator adapter plate. I replaced the seals,
and put the nuts back on the studs with split ring lock wasters and also
thread sealer and am keeping a close eye on them. Thinking about drilling some
nuts so I can safety wire those suckers.
Otherwise normal oil leaks are from the valve rocker covers, the valve rocker shaft
crush washers, etc.
Bottom line, the only way I've ever found to find the leaks is to have the engine
totally clean and then run it on the desk with a guy that has good eyes looking
at it. Oil leaks can be insidious.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cory Robin
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 12:31
Subject: Yak-List: Oil leakage.
I have a difficult to locate oil leak somewhere that is giving the belly of
the beast a nice lube job.
Anyone have any tips or 'easy button' I can press to help me locate this
spitter? Top ten locations of leaks?
Cory Robin
'WilgaBeast' <http://www.facebook.com/skyvantage>
Message 14
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| Subject: | FW: CJ6 down in Maryland |
FYI to the list - just saw this on MSN.com
http://fw.to/kiQ7bx
Two bodies recovered after Ocean City plane crash
Maryland State Police divers on Monday recovered two bodies from the
wreckage of a small plane crash a half-mile off the shore of Ocean City
<http://fw.to/mrUiOFQ> .
To unsubscribe
<http://www.gigya.com/site/landing.aspx?ut=stAnAL4OdFIYlReHSSn5rYvgpgRViaHRt
MsPSmnIRK2vXMnTOfnT5J8mGQe4M7fo686hJ_-B1fpj8es3nCmjsZJg7DsQxnGjqMRicPqlLxXD1
Ptehz1afyRgESR-EoKlid1> click here.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Oil leakage. |
Thank you everyone! This is very helpful as tomorrow it's looking to be
sporty hot in Salt Lake City tomorrow as I troubleshoot this. And hope to
nail things down! Any other suggestions are welcome!
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: CK gear checks |
Thank you gentleman. I do have restrictors in place, including the flaps.
Cheers,
Keith
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
X26 Sebastian, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403744#403744
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Oil leakage. |
I don't know what aircraft you are speaking of but if it has a vent line in the
oil tank like the CJ, any time the aircraft is less than 1G a little oil gets
in that vent tube a coats the belly when the G comes back on. Until I put an
air/oil separator on my CJ you can't imagine how much a tiny amount of oil seems
to look like quarts when is gets on the belly.
K
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
X26 Sebastian, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403745#403745
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Oil leakage. |
Back seal on sump
Seal on base of tach drive
Sump drain
Super charger seal
Nose case seal
Seals on push rod tubes
Cylinder base O ring
Valve cover seal
Push rod tube at rocker box
Every dead gummed seal on the accessory case
Every danged one of the oil line fittings
To name a few places I have seen.
Permabond anaerobic gasket sealant works great on those pesky flawed seals. N
ice part is it comes apart with a little pressure and a few taps on the case
with a rubber sand hammer.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 1, 2013, at 2:52 PM, Cory Robin <crobin@skyvantage.com> wrote:
> Thank you everyone! This is very helpful as tomorrow it's looking to be s
porty hot in Salt Lake City tomorrow as I troubleshoot this. And hope to na
il things down! Any other suggestions are welcome!
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: CK gear checks |
The CJ manual does not show any restrictors in the emergency down
plumbing.
Walt
From: doug sapp
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: CK gear checks
Guys,
I would think you are correct and my better judgement tells me that
restrictors on the down side of the emergency system would not be a good
idea. Rather or not the CJ books call out the need for them I really at
this point do not know.
Best,
Doug
On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Doug, does the CJ-6 have flow restrictors in both the normal *AND* the
emergency hoses going to the actuators? I really do not know.
On the YAK aircraft, the Emergency Side hoses do *NOT* have any flow
restrictors, (on the 50 anyway) and with good purpose. If you have a
blown chevron seal, restricting air flow in any way can mean the gear
will not come down and lock. The idea (from the Russians) is that if
you have a real emergency with the gear, you want all the flow the
system can generate, and who cares if they "slam" or not, thus no flow
restrictors on the emergency side and thus why you have to be careful
when actuating emergency gear valve while on jacks. This is how it
was
explained to me by two Russian Mechs anyway, so take it with a grain
of
salt.
Glad to know about you have the blank restrictors! I very carefully
trimmed my holes to allow the gear to go up and down almost perfectly
in
sync. Why this mattered to me I have no idea, as it really doesn't
make
much difference. :-)
Mark
p.s. I just see Dennis asked the same thing!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 12:48
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: CK gear checks
Keith,
If the air line restrictors, my part number H2-5500-02 have the proper
hole size and are in the correct places the gear should not slam up OR
down. I have the blank restrictors in stock if you need them. See
vol
#1 of the parts books, fig 6-1 (Page 292 and on). Look for the word
"DAMPER" in the Nomenclature section. You will notice that some of
the
dampers have different dash numbers, this is because they have
differing
hole sizes in them. Gear transition speeds can to a degree be
altered/changed by increasing or decreasing the size of hole in the
restrictor.
Best,
Doug
On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 10:20 PM, keithmckinley <cetopfed@gmail.com>
wrote:
<cetopfed@gmail.com>
Below was on the Yak List posted in 2007 and is pretty much
the
way it looks in the CJ maint manual.
Just had heard about the airplane getting a little jumpy on
the
jacks....
> 1) MAIN AIR- OPEN
> 2) SELECT GEAR- UP
> 3) VERIFY GEAR UP- CHECK UPLOCKS ETC
> 4) MAIN AIR - CLOSE
> 5) EMERGENCY AIR- OPEN QUICKLY
> 6) VERIFY GEAR UNLOCKS FROM THE UP POSITION
> The gear should be caught in between the up and down
positions.
> This is a good time to look over the gear swing action by
hand.
> 7) SELECT GEAR- NEUTRAL
> VERIFY GEAR DOWN AND LOCKED
> 9) EMERGENCY AIR- CLOSE
> 10) SELECT GEAR- DOWN
> 11) BLEED OFF SYSTEM PRESSURE FOR 2 MINUTES
> I usually actuate the parking brake and alternate left and
right rudder
> until the "fart" valve releases.
> It's important to wait a good minute after the valve
releases
to ensure
> the emergency system is purged before engaging the main air
system.
> If there's any residual pressure in the emergency side the
shuttle
> valves on the gear may not switch over completely to the
main
system.
> 12) MAIN AIR- OPEN
> 13) SELECT GEAR- UP
> 14) VERIFY GEAR UP
> 15) SELECT GEAR- DOWN
> 16) VERIFY GEAR DOWN AND LOCKED
>
> With best regards to all,
> Cliff
>
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
X26 Sebastian, FL
Read this topic online here:
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Message 20
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| Subject: | Official Yak-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Yak-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Yak-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Yak-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Yak-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Yak-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Yak-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
yak-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "yak-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Yak-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Yak-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/yak-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Yak-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Yak-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Yak-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Yak-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Yak-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Yak-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Yak-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Yak-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Yak-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Yak-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Yak-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Yak
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Yak-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Yak-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Yak-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Yak-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Yak-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Official Yak-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Yak-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Yak-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Yak-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Yak-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Yak-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Yak-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Yak-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Yak-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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