Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:16 AM - Re: Engine teardown after prop strike Questions (Richard Goode)
2. 08:01 AM - Re: FLAT SPINNING in a Yak-52 .... ;-)) (keithmckinley)
3. 08:03 AM - SPinning the Yak-52 (keithmckinley)
4. 11:38 AM - Re: Engine teardown after prop strike Questions (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
5. 02:34 PM - Re: Engine teardown after prop strike Questions (George Coy)
6. 04:30 PM - bearings (Kelley Monroe)
7. 05:12 PM - Re: bearings (A. Dennis Savarese)
8. 05:31 PM - Re: Engine teardown after prop strike Questions (Roger Kemp M.D.)
9. 06:36 PM - Re: Engine Teardown (Jill Gernetzke)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Engine teardown after prop strike Questions |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=
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: FLAT SPINNING in a Yak-52 .... ;-)) |
My only comment, Nice watch!
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
X26 Sebastian, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404598#404598
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | SPinning the Yak-52 |
Found this in my archive. May be of interest.
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
X26 Sebastian, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404599#404599
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/spins_unspun_259.pdf
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Engine teardown after prop strike Questions |
Richard-
Your reply is a case in point for why I wrote what I did. The fact is that
there are many types of prop strikes and the severity of the loads imposed
to the engine vary greatly.
You have stated many times how "lucky" we in the West are regarding our Exp
erimental Category and the ease by which we can license and operate our air
craft compared to most operators in Europe. This is exactly the "thing" th
at I am trying to protect here and American owners need to take note.
The FAA in the United States often likes to make things simple by categoriz
ing everything with some kind of "written instruction". If they can find a
piece of paper that they can hold close to their chest and demand complian
ce with, they often will.
You said: "I personally think that far too many pilots in the West are very
casual about these engines after prop - strikes".
Richard, you are welcome to any opinion you wish to have, but please let's
leave it at that. When you start to emphasize the validity of a posted do
cument that happens to agree with your point of view, and that document can
possibly change the way things are handled in another country, that cross
es the line from being an opinion to something else. I would ask that as a
friend, you at least keep that in mind. I know I do.
As regards prop strikes on M-14 engines, I too believe in caution and safet
y, but I also believe in applying common sense. I know of three M-14 engin
es with "prop strikes" that have flown over 600 hours since the "incident"
without an issue. One of those three "Prop Strikes" was when an SU-31 prop
hit a human leg and tossed the person it was attached to 10 feet in the ai
r, and took a huge chunk out of both his leg, and one prop blade of an MTV9
-260! In that case, the person's leg needed more of a teardown than the en
gine did. But hey .... that was indeed a legitimate prop strike with blade
damage.
Lots of things can damage an M-14, and I believe the most significant is so
me form of Hydraulic Lock. I have seen far more M-14 engines come apart fr
om this malady than prop strikes.
So bottom line.. Let's continue to have spirited and intense discussions, t
hat include opinions and experience, but please let's also try to avoid med
dling in issues that can impact how a whole class of engines or airplanes a
re treated in a country, especially ones that we don't live in.
Mark
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Engine teardown after prop strike Questions |
Mark, I disagree with you. I think people should have the facts and that
includes factory recommendations. As stated we are experimental, and not
required to follow the factory recommendations on an experimental aircraft.
The FAA is already well aware of the recommended overhaul times for eastern
aircraft airframes and engines and has never even questioned it in an
experimental aircraft. Often, insurance companies are driving the issue of
teardown. Yes, I have flown many a Yak that has had a prop strike and yes,
yes I know of many aircraft hat have hundreds of hours after a prop strike
with no sign of damage. I have seen hidden damage at a normal teardown that
was waiting to become more serious. So I think it is the owner/pilots
decision and then should have all the information to make that decision.
George Coy
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 2:33 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Engine teardown after prop strike Questions
Richard-
Your reply is a case in point for why I wrote what I did. The fact is that
there are many types of prop strikes and the severity of the loads imposed
to the engine vary greatly.
You have stated many times how "lucky" we in the West are regarding our
Experimental Category and the ease by which we can license and operate our
aircraft compared to most operators in Europe. This is exactly the "thing"
that I am trying to protect here and American owners need to take note.
The FAA in the United States often likes to make things simple by
categorizing everything with some kind of "written instruction". If they
can find a piece of paper that they can hold close to their chest and demand
compliance with, they often will.
You said: "I personally think that far too many pilots in the West are very
casual about these engines after prop - strikes".
Richard, you are welcome to any opinion you wish to have, but please let's
leave it at that. When you start to emphasize the validity of a posted
document that happens to agree with your point of view, and that document
can possibly change the way things are handled in another country, that
crosses the line from being an opinion to something else. I would ask that
as a friend, you at least keep that in mind. I know I do.
As regards prop strikes on M-14 engines, I too believe in caution and
safety, but I also believe in applying common sense. I know of three M-14
engines with "prop strikes" that have flown over 600 hours since the
"incident" without an issue. One of those three "Prop Strikes" was when an
SU-31 prop hit a human leg and tossed the person it was attached to 10 feet
in the air, and took a huge chunk out of both his leg, and one prop blade of
an MTV9-260! In that case, the person's leg needed more of a teardown than
the engine did. But hey .... that was indeed a legitimate prop strike with
blade damage.
Lots of things can damage an M-14, and I believe the most significant is
some form of Hydraulic Lock. I have seen far more M-14 engines come apart
from this malady than prop strikes.
So bottom line.. Let's continue to have spirited and intense discussions,
that include opinions and experience, but please let's also try to avoid
meddling in issues that can impact how a whole class of engines or airplanes
are treated in a country, especially ones that we don't live in.
Mark
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
The control surface bearings on the CJ are double roller and unsealed.
Can a single roller sealed bearing of the same ID an OD be used to
replace them?
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Not really because the double row bearings are self-aligning bearings.=0ADe
nnis=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Kelley Monroe
<kelmonroe@comcast.net>=0ATo: Yak-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Saturday, Jul
y 13, 2013 6:26 PM=0ASubject: Yak-List: bearings=0A =0A=0A=0A =0AThe contro
l surface bearings on the CJ are double =0Aroller and unsealed.- Can a si
ngle roller sealed bearing of the same ID an =0AOD be used to replace them?
=============
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Engine teardown after prop strike Questions |
Had pitched out of the fight but will re-enter. Since it is my rosy red pink
being pulled behind that thing I am tearing mine down. Yes the last gear up
CJ's engine that I know of (M-14P with wood props) had no damage on tear do
wn by Monty Barrett. Now saying that the Builder in Lithuania rebuilt the en
gine with an out of spec master crank roller bearings that were basically wo
rn out. That was gotcha waiting to happen. It was not Termikus's shop. That i
s all I will say. If the owner of that engine wishes to comment he can.
As for to tear or not teardown, in the US we sort of have the option. Do I t
ake 6 bullets out of the revolver or do I take 5 to play Russian Roulette. I
t is our choice but as George said, "insurance is driving the tear down requ
irement." If you are self insured and like playing Roulette go for it. If yo
u drop that bird in some one's house with others having knowledge of your fl
ying with an engine that had a prop strike that crapped out in flight causin
g injury on the ground we are all going to pay. Your only hope is you got mo
rted in the process so your estate can cover the loses.
Was there one of those in Maine a couple of years ago or was a hydraulic loc
k that caused that one fall on to the downtown streets morting both occupant
s.
My two cents since my insurance company is requiring the tear down, I'm tea
ring it down. Would be a hell of a lot easier to repair the sheet metal, rep
lace the leaking air line, hang to new blades and go fly. But, right now I d
o not trust that engine.
Break, any one looking for a YAK -50 project? Will sell the airframe firewal
l back minus engine cheap. Contact me off list if interested. Will sell as i
s for salvage value or may consider parting it out.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 13, 2013, at 4:32 PM, "George Coy" <george.coy@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mark, I disagree with you. I think people should have the facts and that i
ncludes factory recommendations. As stated we are experimental, and not requ
ired to follow the factory recommendations on an experimental aircraft. The
FAA is already well aware of the recommended overhaul times for eastern airc
raft airframes and engines and has never even questioned it in an experiment
al aircraft. Often, insurance companies are driving the issue of teardown. Y
es, I have flown many a Yak that has had a prop strike and yes, yes I know o
f many aircraft hat have hundreds of hours after a prop strike with no sign o
f damage. I have seen hidden damage at a normal teardown that was waiting to
become more serious. So I think it is the owner/pilots decision and then s
hould have all the information to make that decision.
> George Coy
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
> Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 2:33 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Engine teardown after prop strike Questions
>
> Richard-
>
> Your reply is a case in point for why I wrote what I did. The fact is tha
t there are many types of prop strikes and the severity of the loads imposed
to the engine vary greatly.
>
> You have stated many times how =9Clucky=9D we in the West are r
egarding our Experimental Category and the ease by which we can license and o
perate our aircraft compared to most operators in Europe. This is exactly t
he =9Cthing=9D that I am trying to protect here and American own
ers need to take note.
>
> The FAA in the United States often likes to make things simple by categori
zing everything with some kind of =9Cwritten instruction=9D. If
they can find a piece of paper that they can hold close to their chest and d
emand compliance with, they often will.
>
> You said: =9CI personally think that far too many pilots in the West
are very casual about these engines after prop =93 strikes=9D.
>
> Richard, you are welcome to any opinion you wish to have, but please let
=99s leave it at that. When you start to emphasize the validity of a po
sted document that happens to agree with your point of view, and that docume
nt can possibly change the way things are handled in another country, that c
rosses the line from being an opinion to something else. I would ask that a
s a friend, you at least keep that in mind. I know I do.
>
> As regards prop strikes on M-14 engines, I too believe in caution and safe
ty, but I also believe in applying common sense. I know of three M-14 engin
es with =9Cprop strikes=9D that have flown over 600 hours since t
he =9Cincident=9D without an issue. One of those three =9C
Prop Strikes=9D was when an SU-31 prop hit a human leg and tossed the p
erson it was attached to 10 feet in the air, and took a huge chunk out of bo
th his leg, and one prop blade of an MTV9-260! In that case, the person
=99s leg needed more of a teardown than the engine did. But hey .... that w
as indeed a legitimate prop strike with blade damage.
>
> Lots of things can damage an M-14, and I believe the most significant is s
ome form of Hydraulic Lock. I have seen far more M-14 engines come apart fr
om this malady than prop strikes.
>
> So bottom line. Let=99s continue to have spirited and inten
se discussions, that include opinions and experience, but please let=99
s also try to avoid meddling in issues that can impact how a whole class of e
ngines or airplanes are treated in a country, especially ones that we don
=99t live in.
>
> Mark
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Engine Teardown |
Group,
I will offer up my opinion based upon my experiences in this business.
There are some instances where money can be a great motivation.
OKBM did not have the overhaul experience that the Shakhty overhaul factory
did in overhauling the M-14P engines. (As far as I know, OKBM is effectively
out of the M-14P manufacturing business. Richard (Goode) may be better able
to elaborate on this.) I asked the question when I traveled to Shakhty about
their findings on prop strikes and the reply was that internal damage to the
engine did not occur very often. This factory was operational since WWII, so
they are the people that I sit up and take notice of. I cannot imagine how
many M-14P they have overhauled.
The Wilga manual also gives a recommendation for prop blade length that can
be missing before a teardown is required. This manual was written long
before that directive was issued. The AI-14RA engine has much weaker drive
components in the nosecase.
(Didn't we hash this all out on the List before???)
Ask yourself, why would M-14P, Inc, who is in a position to monetarily gain
from this directive not be trying to direct their way? Because, we would
rather people deal in the truth of matters and real experience. We have
been in the Russian aircraft and engine business since 1992 and draw from
what we have coming through our shop on major repairs, teardown inspections
and overhauls. Every prop strike should dealt with on an individual basis,
as there are many factors to consider.
I wholeheartedly agree with Mark on this issue.
Jill
M-14P, Inc.
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|