Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:45 AM - Re: CJ condition inspection...a few questions (skidmk)
2. 11:13 AM - Re: More oil leakage (skidmk)
3. 01:28 PM - Re: CJ condition inspection...a few questions (keithmckinley)
4. 04:29 PM - Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 (migjockey)
5. 04:36 PM - Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 (migjockey)
6. 04:43 PM - Re: Avionics (migjockey)
7. 05:06 PM - Re: Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 (Kendal Simpson)
8. 05:19 PM - Re: Engine teardown after prop strike Questions (Roger Kemp M.D.)
9. 05:26 PM - Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 (migjockey)
10. 05:46 PM - Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 (Roger Kemp M.D.)
11. 06:34 PM - Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 (migjockey)
12. 06:37 PM - Re: Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 (gord)
13. 06:52 PM - SNJ T 6 Checkout Aerobatics (Roger Kemp M.D.)
14. 07:16 PM - Re: Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 (gord)
15. 08:37 PM - Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 (keithmckinley)
16. 08:37 PM - Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 (migjockey)
17. 08:39 PM - Re: SNJ T 6 Checkout Aerobatics (keithmckinley)
18. 09:08 PM - Re: Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 (Walter Lannon)
19. 09:17 PM - Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 (migjockey)
20. 10:46 PM - Re: Stainless Gill Vane Screws (keithmckinley)
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| Subject: | Re: CJ condition inspection...a few questions |
Hey buddy,,, typical Important stuff not replied to, I guess arguments about
mmo and nomex are more interesting.
I would send these questions direct to Walt Lannon. An amazing resource, and always
a gentleman.
cheers,,,
p.s hope to see you in Easton for the chicken drop.
--------
Mike "Skidmk" Bourget
Ottawa, Ontario
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404765#404765
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| Subject: | Re: More oil leakage |
Gents,,,,
going to try and chase down some leaks are selves this weekend. We never thought
to consider tightening bolts held in place with the tabs. (thanks)
without sounding too dumbass,,, pushing these tabs our of place? special tool?
screwdriver? pliers? any tips?
thanks
M
--------
Mike "Skidmk" Bourget
Ottawa, Ontario
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404767#404767
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| Subject: | Re: CJ condition inspection...a few questions |
Hi Mike! Shoot me an email off list!
keith@mckinley.us
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
X26 Sebastian, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404774#404774
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| Subject: | Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 |
I have been playing around, trying to get a great slow roll out of the Yak 52.
I've been entering at around 250kph. If I use medium right ailerons, I have
to really get the nose up quite high...cheating...in order to come out reasonably
well! If I use full ailerons, things get better. I realize I can use a higher
entry speed as well. Anyone out there have some suggestions, comments,
criticisms. Be my guest, fire away and thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404783#404783
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| Subject: | Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 |
A few more comments about my inquiry. I am asking about a slow roll, not an aileron
roll; that is, I'm trying to get that "sacred circle" small and just above
the horizon. I was hoping to get to the point where I could get a a "slow"
roll executed, but it seems difficult getting a good knife edge as I go through
the 90 and 270 degree positions from a 250kph entry speed. With full deflection
things go much better (no surprise) but wouldn't it be nice to get one of
those graceful slow rolls. Of course, one can always do this with...now what
do they call it...oh yes, better skills! Hey, give me a break!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404784#404784
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Thanks to everyone for their comments. Right now I'm exploring MGL because they
are located in Torrance, California, not far from my home base, Santa Paula,
California. They offer their V6 and V6R, both of which are 6+ watts units.
The V6 is around 4.25 inches in depth and the V6R is a remote unit (like the Balkan-5).
Both models can be remotely controlled and both have built-in intercoms.
Matt, the owner of MGL told me he will have their remote head available
in a few months. If so, one could have the V6 mounted up front with a remote
control head in the rear cockpit. Or the V6R mounted where the Balkan is located
with remote control heads in each of the cockpits. As always, comments and
suggestions are welcome. And thanks again for your comments to date.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404785#404785
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| Subject: | Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 |
Haven't flown a 52 but what I can say is that the "sacred circle" isn't very small
in most aircraft that aren't unlimited acro machines! Bottom of the circle
is straight and level flight at that airspeed, top of the circle is straight
and level inverted at that airspeed... Then you fill in the sides. That's usually
quite a pitch change in nose attitude from one to the other. The trick is
to smoothly transition from the low point to the inverted high point then back
again. It rrally is a finess thing especially when control surfaces are limited
in travel/authority. Try just completing half the roll to inverted first,
fly along inverted straight and level, then complete the second half. Really it's
one of the hardest maneuvers to truely do really well since all the controll
surfaces are constantly moving to keep the nose exactly where it should be.
Good luck and have fun
Kendal
www.acronut.com
On Jul 16, 2013, at 19:32, "migjockey" <glazik@wgn.net> wrote:
>
> A few more comments about my inquiry. I am asking about a slow roll, not an
aileron roll; that is, I'm trying to get that "sacred circle" small and just above
the horizon. I was hoping to get to the point where I could get a a "slow"
roll executed, but it seems difficult getting a good knife edge as I go through
the 90 and 270 degree positions from a 250kph entry speed. With full deflection
things go much better (no surprise) but wouldn't it be nice to get one
of those graceful slow rolls. Of course, one can always do this with...now what
do they call it...oh yes, better skills! Hey, give me a break!!!!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404784#404784
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Engine teardown after prop strike Questions |
Mark,
I agree with your comments but how do you verify that the Idler gears on the super
charger and the accessory spider gears do not have cracked or chipped teeth.
Have to crack the supercharger and accessory case for that. The nose case
is simple. The rest is a pain in the ass. Those damned air start lines are a real
pill to deal with.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 15, 2013, at 3:07 PM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
wrote:
>
> If the timing on the engine is OK, 90% of the stuff you just listed is unnecessary
Doc. However, it is of course your call! That said, my whole point all
along is that every situation differs and that needs to be taken into consideration.
There is no "ONE ANSWER" and we should stay away from any document that
promotes that way of thinking.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 13:59
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Engine teardown after prop strike Questions
>
>
> No Mark I am not implying total tear down but to access the accessry drive shaft,
inspect and magnaflux or dye penetrate the gear box and do a master crank
run out your have to take the nose case off the engine. The baffles will have
to be removed so you can take the air start lines off to seperate the supercharger
case from the crank case. The intake tubes and the exhaust manifold has
to be removed. The Oil Sump has to be removed. You can try to leave the carb on
but you will find out that to pull the supercharger and to seperate the accessory
case all of the attached accessories need to be out of your way. Since you
want to look at the journals on the crank too the cylinders need to come off.
No the rockers do not need to be pulled but to get to the base of the connecting
rod the cylinders need to come off. Now to inspect the accessory drive shaft
and the super charger idler gear the super charger section and the accessory
drive section are going to have to be seperated. T!
> o do that the air lines from the spider (air start distributor) have to come
off. It is a bit ill managable if you do not. You can try to leave the mags and
the compressor on but you will be cursing yourself for trying that after about
an hour. Yes you can do it though.
> I've been there and I have the damned T shirt.
>> From my stand point if I am going that far why not pull the whole damned thing
down so I can see the teeth and dye penetrate all of the gears in the gear
box and the accessory drive along with the crown gear on the crank shaft, the
idler gear that drive the timing cam plate, the accessory gear for the prop governor.
> Therer is no real simple easy way to do this with out tearing the engine down.
Since mine plopped down on the ground I want to look at the cylinder base studs,
the crank case through studs for the mounting ring and the cylinder head
baffle mounting studs. Not everybody will require that since 90% of the M-14's
flying have a protruding nose wheel to protect them when the gear collapses.
> There is more to mine than most so that is for sure.
> I am not implying that everyone should have to completely tear one down. Mine
is at the extreme.
> I am not going into how the metal got in the original engine that is at the began
this saga. Yes, the plan is to let Monty take this one apart because I am
tired of tearing M-14's down and putting them back togather.
> Like farts, man, there are loud oderless and on the other end there are silent
but deadly ones. There is a spectrum across the bell shaped curve. In this case,
since this engine will be pulling my rosey pink eventually, I want it right.
> By the way there was nothing wrong with this engine after it was reassembles
before it took the grass field slide. Don't really expect anything to be wrong
with it this time either but I need to go through the exercise.
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>> Sent: Jul 15, 2013 10:17 AM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Engine teardown after prop strike Questions
>>
>> --> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>> Since you checked back in, I will reply to your comment Doc.
>>
>> You take a very interesting point of view regarding your "rosy red pink". You
are suggesting that safety dictates a total tear down for the purpose of safety.
>>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 |
Thanks Kendal. I've pretty much already done everything you mentioned. So far,
it appears that at around 250kph entry speed, with moderate aileron inputs,
I find that I really have to hold the Yak 52's nose quite high when inverted to
maintain altitude as I continue to roll to the second knife edge. Of course,
with a faster roll rate, it's not as necessary. Obviously, in other planes
I've flown, like the Pitts with its symmetrical wings and such, the need for
a high nose attitude is kind of moot. What challenges me is that I recall seeing
Sergei Boriak do slow rolls in the Yak 52, and it didn't appear that he was
holding its nose as high, but at that time, I didn't ask him what entry speed
he uses. And, of course, he has just a wee bit more hours in Yaks than me...yeah,
just a wee bit!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404790#404790
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| Subject: | Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 |
Are you trying to do a slow aileron roll or do a barrel roll. What are you doing
with your rudder during these rolls? To do a slow roll you are pretty much doing
a barrel roll. You need opposite top rudder to your aileron input as you
enter the 90 degree and 270 degree points in the roll. Pitch up 10-15 degrees,
freeze the pitch, start your roll with ailerons in direction you want to roll
smoothly feed in top rudder to keep the nose up in the knife edge part of he
roll as you approach inverted bunt hard to keep the nose up 1 maybe 2 negative
G's then repeat top rudder on the 270 deg. Side off the roll. Approaching the
erect phase coordinate the control neutralizing the ailerons and rudder as you
approach the horizon finishing the roll 10 degrees nose below the horizon.
Apply aft stick as needed to keep it near that finishing attitude. If you pan
out don't try to save it with a hard pull especially if you got slow and were
uncoordinated on your controls. Practice three mistakes high.
Google T-6 WWII Barrel Roll Training for a great instructional video on Barrel
Rolls.
The only slow roll I was ever taught was the Barrel Roll.
The acro competitors on the list can correct me now.
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 16, 2013, at 6:25 PM, "migjockey" <glazik@wgn.net> wrote:
>
> I have been playing around, trying to get a great slow roll out of the Yak 52.
I've been entering at around 250kph. If I use medium right ailerons, I have
to really get the nose up quite high...cheating...in order to come out reasonably
well! If I use full ailerons, things get better. I realize I can use a
higher entry speed as well. Anyone out there have some suggestions, comments,
criticisms. Be my guest, fire away and thanks.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404783#404783
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 |
I'm talking about a slow roll, not an aileron roll or barrel roll. In the slow
roll, as I start the first 90 degrees, I begin with just a smidgen of elevator
to start the nose moving up...cheating if you will. As I continue to the first
90 knife edge, I'm not only using top rudder but I'm pushing slightly to maintain
heading an achieve (theoretically) zero lift from the wings and only lift
from the fuselage (knife edge). Then as I continue on to the 180 inverted
position, It is here that I find I have to really push quite a bit of forward
stick to maintain altitude. Somewhere around 10-20 degrees past inverted, I
start switching rudder position to continue top rudder to hold the nose up. I
also am reducing my forward stick, but not all of it, again to maintain direction
and zero life from the wings. The last part of the roll is where my controls
slowly return to neutral...sort of! Right now I'm experimenting with various
entry speeds to see which ones allow me to achieve momentary knife edge.
I really don't think the Yak 52 can hold it very long, but that's why I'm asking
if someone can comment on this observation. Perhaps with better technique
holding knife edge is achievable!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404795#404795
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| Subject: | Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 |
The slow roll is a great manoeuvre, almost impossible to get perfection. Two
hands in my YAK-50 is easier on the shoulder. Here is an explanation
outlined in Bob O'Dells 'Aerobatics Today' published in 1980. Hope this
helps. I am looking for my Neil Williams book. I think it has a good
explanation too. Gord
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| Subject: | SNJ T 6 Checkout Aerobatics |
Check out this video on YouTube:
http://youtu.be/-Ku8HSqoZV8
A good review of intermediate acro granted done in WWII in a T 6 but still.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
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| Subject: | Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 |
I find that last knife edge is easier to control if I roll left. Not always
possible in competition but I don't worry about that any more. Nose up and
watch for the inverted flick... stay high and practice inverted spins.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of migjockey
Sent: July-16-13 9:32 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52
I'm talking about a slow roll, not an aileron roll or barrel roll. In the
slow roll, as I start the first 90 degrees, I begin with just a smidgen of
elevator to start the nose moving up...cheating if you will. As I continue
to the first 90 knife edge, I'm not only using top rudder but I'm pushing
slightly to maintain heading an achieve (theoretically) zero lift from the
wings and only lift from the fuselage (knife edge). Then as I continue on
to the 180 inverted position, It is here that I find I have to really push
quite a bit of forward stick to maintain altitude. Somewhere around 10-20
degrees past inverted, I start switching rudder position to continue top
rudder to hold the nose up. I also am reducing my forward stick, but not
all of it, again to maintain direction and zero life from the wings. The
last part of the roll is where my controls slowly return to neutral...sort
of! Right now I'm experimenting with various entry speeds to see which ones
allow me to achi!
eve momentary knife edge. I really don't think the Yak 52 can hold it very
long, but that's why I'm asking if someone can comment on this observation.
Perhaps with better technique holding knife edge is achievable!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404795#404795
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| Subject: | Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 |
at the 50 minute mark of the SNJ film posted above all you'll ever need to know
about the slow roll, courtesy of WWII Naval Aviation!!
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
X26 Sebastian, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404805#404805
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| Subject: | Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 |
Thanks for the reply. Whenever I practice, I try to be at 3,000 AGL or higher.
If I'm focusing on spins, especially inverted ones, I start out at 6,000 AGL.
No point giving up that valuable altitude by starting low. It's analogous
to leaving that gas behind when filling up for a long cross country. I generally
roll right in the Yak due to the rotation of the engine. I recall seeing
a video online of someone doing a series of "fast" slow rolls and it looked like
he had it nailed! That nose hardly moved and went around in relatively small
circles just above the horizon. If anyone knows where I can find that video
again, I'd be very appreciative.
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404804#404804
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| Subject: | Re: SNJ T 6 Checkout Aerobatics |
Classic Joe!
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
X26 Sebastian, FL
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404806#404806
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| Subject: | Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 |
I think you are right on track with the slow roll but, as Gord pointed out,
perfection is elusive. It can be compared to the golf swing in many
respects! The occasional good one where the control changes are fluid and
perfectly co-ordinated is a joy to complete as you will eventually find.
For me it is maybe one out of ten and in the Harvard and CJ you pay for that
by wiping the oil off the belly (no inverted system like the '52). But
what the hell - it's worth it.
Walt
-----Original Message-----
From: migjockey
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 6:31 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52
I'm talking about a slow roll, not an aileron roll or barrel roll. In the
slow roll, as I start the first 90 degrees, I begin with just a smidgen of
elevator to start the nose moving up...cheating if you will. As I continue
to the first 90 knife edge, I'm not only using top rudder but I'm pushing
slightly to maintain heading an achieve (theoretically) zero lift from the
wings and only lift from the fuselage (knife edge). Then as I continue on
to the 180 inverted position, It is here that I find I have to really push
quite a bit of forward stick to maintain altitude. Somewhere around 10-20
degrees past inverted, I start switching rudder position to continue top
rudder to hold the nose up. I also am reducing my forward stick, but not
all of it, again to maintain direction and zero life from the wings. The
last part of the roll is where my controls slowly return to neutral...sort
of! Right now I'm experimenting with various entry speeds to see which ones
allow me to achi!
eve momentary knife edge. I really don't think the Yak 52 can hold it very
long, but that's why I'm asking if someone can comment on this observation.
Perhaps with better technique holding knife edge is achievable!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404795#404795
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| Subject: | Re: Elusive Slow Roll in Yak 52 |
You got that right. When everything works right, it's a joy.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404810#404810
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| Subject: | Re: Stainless Gill Vane Screws |
Hi Jeff,
Emails are not going through...How have you been!
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
X26 Sebastian, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404818#404818
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