Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:45 AM - Yak 55 parts and... Final Prop Strike comments (Jill Gernetzke)
2. 11:35 AM - Matt's KLVK ATC Streaming... (Matt Dralle)
3. 12:37 PM - Re: Matt's KLVK ATC Streaming... (Didier BLOUZARD)
4. 12:46 PM - Re: Yak 55 parts and... Final Prop Strike comments (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
5. 01:13 PM - Re: Matt's KLVK ATC Streaming... (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
6. 01:31 PM - Re: Matt's KLVK ATC Streaming... (James Goolsby)
7. 02:40 PM - (l29delfin)
8. 02:52 PM - Re: 2" N numbers (Jon Boede)
9. 04:24 PM - Fw: Re: 2" N numbers (l29delfin)
10. 08:12 PM - Flight planning to OSH. (James Goolsby)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Yak 55 parts and... Final Prop Strike comments |
Group,
I have been offered a set of NEW Yak 55 ailerons and a rudder: available for
sale. If you want to see a picture, go to our M-14P, Inc. Facebook page or
contact me offlist.
We wanted to share our final thoughts on the commentary about prop strikes
and engine teardowns. There is conjecture about all manner of hidden
damage. Most people do not want to take the time to understand the forces,
loads and physics on the engine and the different outcomes. There are a
number of things we can say with some certainty, drawing from over 50 years
of collective experience on M-14Ps (80 years of collective radial engine
experience): two of us being graduates of the M-14P factory overhaul
school, visits to the Shakhty overhaul factory, experience in performing
teardowns for prop strikes, hydraulic lock repairs or overhauls of 40 -50
AI-14, Housai and M-14 engines. This is what we do, day in and day out.
The only nosecase damage we have seen, was on an AI-14 and an M-14P that had
link rods fail in flight; which sheared off the propeller shafts. The AI-14
has 3 planet gears, the M-14P has 6. The first thing that is affected, if
anything, is always a rotation of the rear cheekplate on the crankshaft.
This produces a wobble in the front of the crankshaft which jams the cam
drive gear into the idler gear and breaks teeth. (We have had one Housai
engine that popped the camplate up when the nosecase was removed.) Because
the crankshaft is held by 3 bearings, all of which have some side clearance,
it is simply not possible to accurately measure the runout with the
crankshaft held in those bearings. The runout limit at the end of the
crankshaft is .03mm. The runout would be absorbed by the bearing clearances,
if the crankshaft is measured in the engine. The crankshaft has to be
removed from the engine and checked with a dial gauge in v-blocks.
We are aware of at least 3 of the aforementioned jammed/broken teeth
failures; which occur many hours after the event. The engine then ceases to
make power. While twisted accessory shafts occur, along with broken blower
drive gears, they have all been the result of hydraulic lock and not prop
strikes. A hydraulic lock is a far more serious problem than a prop strike
with WOOD or COMPOSITE blades. The full load torque on the prop shaft is
almost 1000 ft.lbs. Engineering practices would require double that for
failure. With any forward motion, on a flat surface (runway), breaking the
blades to the rear, the blades used on these engines will simply not
transfer that much torque to the prop shaft.
Anything beyond what is in the Maintenance Manual requires more data. We
have spent a lot of time and money to acquire the data, tools, procedures,
fixtures and expensive lessons in learning (some the hard way). What you
can save in doing it yourself, is less than damage you may incur without
having the above. If you are not sure of what you are doing, give us a call.
BTW, we are all still learning. : )
Jill, Carl, Roger & Kevin
M-14P, Inc.
928-681-4400
Message 2
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| Subject: | Matt's KLVK ATC Streaming... |
Dear Listers,
A couple of weeks ago I found a web site on the Internet called LiveATC.net that
has the Air Traffic Control (ATC) tower communications on line for streaming
for a number of airports around the country. Lo 'n behold, they even have a
stream for my home base, the Livermore Airport. But, much to my dismay, the quality
of their KLVK feed was just plain awful. It was obvious the airband source
didn't have a decent antenna or perhaps even a good radio. I suppose that
given that their site is a consortium of local citizens providing the feeds,
the lack of quality goes with the territory.
But, I really liked the idea of being able to monitor the LVK ATC and also the
ability to bring up the archives and listen to my personal communications with
the tower after a flight.
Since I had a computer at the hangar along with a pretty decent Internet connection
and, in the spirit of Experimental Homebuilding, I had an idea... I mounted
an air-band antenna on the top of the hangar and brought the RG-58 coax down
to near the computer and plugged it into my trusty Icom IC-A20 hand held.
I was AMAZED at the quality of signal I was getting. It was picking up guys in
airplanes 19 miles out like they were sitting next to my hangar! I set the
radio to high-speed scan between the Tower and Ground frequencies so with a single
feed I could get all communications.
So next, I made an audio connection from the handheld to the Line In input on the computer. Sure enough, now I was getting great sound from the hand held on the computer! I found some software from Australia called BroadWave from a company called NCH ( http://www.nch.com.au/streaming ). It lets you connect to the Line In port on the computer and then generate real time audio streams that can be served up via the Internet. And sure enough, it works great!
Next, I found some software from Germany called Loop Recorder ( http://looprecorder.de ) that let's you monitor an audio input on your computer and generate archive files. You can select an increment in which to rotate the files automatically, for example, every 30 minutes. I downloaded this software and installed it and sure enough, I was able to start archiving the ATC transmissions coming in, all the while streaming them live as well!
The last piece of the puzzle was to enable the Web and FTP servers on the Windows
7 system and come up with a front-end web page that would tie all of these
new resources together for easy access from the Internet. I'm happy to report,
the whole thing came together very nicely and even allows you stream directly
to your Android or iPhone as well as your desktop! Pretty darn cool!
And so, without further ado, here is my new web site for monitoring the ATC communications
at KLVK:
http://klvk.matronics.com/
Just to state the obvious, the stream is silent if there isn't any current ATC
or aircraft communications. During the day, you'll usually hear something within
five or ten minutes. Sometimes much quicker.
I contacted LiveATC.net and they were excited about adding my new stream to their web site as well. So, at some point soon, the LiveATC.net feed for Livermore Airport will be coming from my hangar! My site http://klvk.matronics.com will continue to be available as well.
For entertainment purposes only!
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 170+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Matt's KLVK ATC Streaming... |
Congratulation Matt
I will carefully listen to your airfield now
Bravo for the technical skills
Best of all
Didier Blouzard
+33 6 5184 4802
Le 18 juil. 2013 20:33, Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> a crit :
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> A couple of weeks ago I found a web site on the Internet called LiveATC.net that
has the Air Traffic Control (ATC) tower communications on line for streaming
for a number of airports around the country. Lo 'n behold, they even have
a stream for my home base, the Livermore Airport. But, much to my dismay, the
quality of their KLVK feed was just plain awful. It was obvious the airband
source didn't have a decent antenna or perhaps even a good radio. I suppose that
given that their site is a consortium of local citizens providing the feeds,
the lack of quality goes with the territory.
>
> But, I really liked the idea of being able to monitor the LVK ATC and also the
ability to bring up the archives and listen to my personal communications with
the tower after a flight.
>
> Since I had a computer at the hangar along with a pretty decent Internet connection
and, in the spirit of Experimental Homebuilding, I had an idea... I mounted
an air-band antenna on the top of the hangar and brought the RG-58 coax
down to near the computer and plugged it into my trusty Icom IC-A20 hand held.
I was AMAZED at the quality of signal I was getting. It was picking up guys
in airplanes 19 miles out like they were sitting next to my hangar! I set the
radio to high-speed scan between the Tower and Ground frequencies so with a
single feed I could get all communications.
>
> So next, I made an audio connection from the handheld to the Line In input on the computer. Sure enough, now I was getting great sound from the hand held on the computer! I found some software from Australia called BroadWave from a company called NCH ( http://www.nch.com.au/streaming ). It lets you connect to the Line In port on the computer and then generate real time audio streams that can be served up via the Internet. And sure enough, it works great!
>
> Next, I found some software from Germany called Loop Recorder ( http://looprecorder.de ) that let's you monitor an audio input on your computer and generate archive files. You can select an increment in which to rotate the files automatically, for example, every 30 minutes. I downloaded this software and installed it and sure enough, I was able to start archiving the ATC transmissions coming in, all the while streaming them live as well!
>
> The last piece of the puzzle was to enable the Web and FTP servers on the Windows
7 system and come up with a front-end web page that would tie all of these
new resources together for easy access from the Internet. I'm happy to report,
the whole thing came together very nicely and even allows you stream directly
to your Android or iPhone as well as your desktop! Pretty darn cool!
>
> And so, without further ado, here is my new web site for monitoring the ATC communications
at KLVK:
>
> http://klvk.matronics.com/
>
> Just to state the obvious, the stream is silent if there isn't any current ATC
or aircraft communications. During the day, you'll usually hear something within
five or ten minutes. Sometimes much quicker.
>
> I contacted LiveATC.net and they were excited about adding my new stream to their web site as well. So, at some point soon, the LiveATC.net feed for Livermore Airport will be coming from my hangar! My site http://klvk.matronics.com will continue to be available as well.
>
> For entertainment purposes only!
>
>
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 170+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mode
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Yak 55 parts and... Final Prop Strike comments |
I for one would like to thank you for writing this. This email is a keeper
..... forever.
Mark
From: Jill Gernetzke
Sent: Thu 7/18/2013 12:43 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Yak 55 parts and... Final Prop Strike comments
Group,
I have been offered a set of NEW Yak 55 ailerons and a rudder: available fo
r
sale. If you want to see a picture, go to our M-14P, Inc. Facebook page or
contact me offlist.
We wanted to share our final thoughts on the commentary about prop strikes
and engine teardowns. There is conjecture about all manner of hidden
damage. Most people do not want to take the time to understand the forces,
loads and physics on the engine and the different outcomes. There are a
number of things we can say with some certainty, drawing from over 50 years
of collective experience on M-14Ps (80 years of collective radial engine
experience): two of us being graduates of the M-14P factory overhaul
school, visits to the Shakhty overhaul factory, experience in performing
teardowns for prop strikes, hydraulic lock repairs or overhauls of 40 -50
AI-14, Housai and M-14 engines. This is what we do, day in and day out.
The only nosecase damage we have seen, was on an AI-14 and an M-14P that ha
d
link rods fail in flight; which sheared off the propeller shafts. The AI-1
4
has 3 planet gears, the M-14P has 6. The first thing that is affected, if
anything, is always a rotation of the rear cheekplate on the crankshaft.
This produces a wobble in the front of the crankshaft which jams the cam
drive gear into the idler gear and breaks teeth. (We have had one Housai
engine that popped the camplate up when the nosecase was removed.) Because
the crankshaft is held by 3 bearings, all of which have some side clearance
,
it is simply not possible to accurately measure the runout with the
crankshaft held in those bearings. The runout limit at the end of the
crankshaft is .03mm. The runout would be absorbed by the bearing clearances
,
if the crankshaft is measured in the engine. The crankshaft has to be
removed from the engine and checked with a dial gauge in v-blocks.
We are aware of at least 3 of the aforementioned jammed/broken teeth
failures; which occur many hours after the event. The engine then ceases t
o
make power. While twisted accessory shafts occur, along with broken blower
drive gears, they have all been the result of hydraulic lock and not prop
strikes. A hydraulic lock is a far more serious problem than a prop strike
with WOOD or COMPOSITE blades. The full load torque on the prop shaft is
almost 1000 ft.lbs. Engineering practices would require double that for
failure. With any forward motion, on a flat surface (runway), breaking the
blades to the rear, the blades used on these engines will simply not
transfer that much torque to the prop shaft.
Anything beyond what is in the Maintenance Manual requires more data. We
have spent a lot of time and money to acquire the data, tools, procedures,
fixtures and expensive lessons in learning (some the hard way). What you
can save in doing it yourself, is less than damage you may incur without
having the above. If you are not sure of what you are doing, give us a call
.
BTW, we are all still learning. : )
Jill, Carl, Roger & Kevin
M-14P, Inc.
928-681-4400
Message 5
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| Subject: | Matt's KLVK ATC Streaming... |
Ok,
So now you just need to add a Skype like interface so you can take your tab
let, Skype connect to the same computer connect speaker out to radio transm
it audio input. The PTT will pose an interesting problem, however when fin
ished you will be able to go flying, Skype into your radio and communicate
with the tower. VOIP, IRLP, or any number of other interfaces will work.
Pretty handy when you are also out of normal radio range of your tower, and
good for emergencies too.
Just need to keep low so that 3G 4G will work into the cell towers and then
to your computer/radio interface.
Don't laugh, this has already been done on Amateur Radio.
Great job for the tower receiver;..... but hey man, make it TWO WAY! :-)
Mark Bitterlich
WA3JPY
From: Matt Dralle
Sent: Thu 7/18/2013 2:33 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Matt's KLVK ATC Streaming...
Dear Listers,
A couple of weeks ago I found a web site on the Internet called LiveATC.net
that has the Air Traffic Control (ATC) tower communications on line for st
reaming for a number of airports around the country. Lo 'n behold, they ev
en have a stream for my home base, the Livermore Airport. But, much to my
dismay, the quality of their KLVK feed was just plain awful. It was obviou
s the airband source didn't have a decent antenna or perhaps even a good ra
dio. I suppose that given that their site is a consortium of local citizen
s providing the feeds, the lack of quality goes with the territory.
But, I really liked the idea of being able to monitor the LVK ATC and also
the ability to bring up the archives and listen to my personal communicatio
ns with the tower after a flight.
Since I had a computer at the hangar along with a pretty decent Internet co
nnection and, in the spirit of Experimental Homebuilding, I had an idea...
I mounted an air-band antenna on the top of the hangar and brought the RG-
58 coax down to near the computer and plugged it into my trusty Icom IC-A20
hand held. I was AMAZED at the quality of signal I was getting. It was p
icking up guys in airplanes 19 miles out like they were sitting next to my
hangar! I set the radio to high-speed scan between the Tower and Ground fr
equencies so with a single feed I could get all communications.
So next, I made an audio connection from the handheld to the Line In input
on the computer. Sure enough, now I was getting great sound from the hand
held on the computer! I found some software from Australia called BroadWa
ve from a company called NCH ( http://www.nch.com.au/streaming ). It lets
you connect to the Line In port on the computer and then generate real time
audio streams that can be served up via the Internet. And sure enough, it
works great!
Next, I found some software from Germany called Loop Recorder ( http://loop
recorder.de ) that let's you monitor an audio input on your computer and ge
nerate archive files. You can select an increment in which to rotate the f
iles automatically, for example, every 30 minutes. I downloaded this softw
are and installed it and sure enough, I was able to start archiving the ATC
transmissions coming in, all the while streaming them live as well!
The last piece of the puzzle was to enable the Web and FTP servers on the W
indows 7 system and come up with a front-end web page that would tie all of
these new resources together for easy access from the Internet. I'm happy
to report, the whole thing came together very nicely and even allows you s
tream directly to your Android or iPhone as well as your desktop! Pretty d
arn cool!
And so, without further ado, here is my new web site for monitoring the ATC
communications at KLVK:
http://klvk.matronics.com/
Just to state the obvious, the stream is silent if there isn't any current
ATC or aircraft communications. During the day, you'll usually hear someth
ing within five or ten minutes. Sometimes much quicker.
I contacted LiveATC.net and they were excited about adding my new stream to
their web site as well. So, at some point soon, the LiveATC.net feed for
Livermore Airport will be coming from my hangar! My site http://klvk.matro
nics.com will continue to be available as well.
For entertainment purposes only!
-
Matt Dralle
RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
Status: 170+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer Mo
de
Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Matt's KLVK ATC Streaming... |
But ain't there a lot more wires? 3G, 4G, PTT, VOIP, IRILP, - - - - HELL I'
m trying to remember who I said I'd sleep with at OSH! Ah I mean who I sa
id I'd share a room with at OSH.
Pappy
Sent from my iPad from some where on The 3rd rock from the Sun.
On Jul 18, 2013, at 15:10, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterl
ich@navy.mil> wrote:
> Ok,
>
> So now you just need to add a Skype like interface so you can take your ta
blet, Skype connect to the same computer connect speaker out to radio transm
it audio input. The PTT will pose an interesting problem, however when fini
shed you will be able to go flying, Skype into your radio and communicate wi
th the tower. VOIP, IRLP, or any number of other interfaces will work.
>
> Pretty handy when you are also out of normal radio range of your tower, an
d good for emergencies too.
>
> Just need to keep low so that 3G 4G will work into the cell towers and the
n to your computer/radio interface.
>
> Don't laugh, this has already been done on Amateur Radio.
>
> Great job for the tower receiver;..... but hey man, make it TWO WAY! :-)
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> WA3JPY
>
> From: Matt Dralle
> Sent: Thu 7/18/2013 2:33 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Matt's KLVK ATC Streaming...
>
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> A couple of weeks ago I found a web site on the Internet called LiveATC.ne
t that has the Air Traffic Control (ATC) tower communications on line for st
reaming for a number of airports around the country. Lo 'n behold, they eve
n have a stream for my home base, the Livermore Airport. But, much to my di
smay, the quality of their KLVK feed was just plain awful. It was obvious t
he airband source didn't have a decent antenna or perhaps even a good radio.
I suppose that given that their site is a consortium of local citizens pro
viding the feeds, the lack of quality goes with the territory.
>
> But, I really liked the idea of being able to monitor the LVK ATC and also
the ability to bring up the archives and listen to my personal communicatio
ns with the tower after a flight.
>
> Since I had a computer at the hangar along with a pretty decent Internet c
onnection and, in the spirit of Experimental Homebuilding, I had an idea...
I mounted an air-band antenna on the top of the hangar and brought the RG-5
8 coax down to near the computer and plugged it into my trusty Icom IC-A20 h
and held. I was AMAZED at the quality of signal I was getting. It was pick
ing up guys in airplanes 19 miles out like they were sitting next to my hang
ar! I set the radio to high-speed scan between the Tower and Ground frequen
cies so with a single feed I could get all communications.
>
> So next, I made an audio connection from the handheld to the Line In input
on the computer. Sure enough, now I was getting great sound from the hand h
eld on the computer! I found some software from Australia called BroadWave
from a company called NCH ( http://www.nch.com.au/streaming ). It lets you
connect to the Line In port on the computer and then generate real time aud
io streams that can be served up via the Internet. And sure enough, it work
s great!
>
> Next, I found some software from Germany called Loop Recorder ( http://loo
precorder.de ) that let's you monitor an audio input on your computer and ge
nerate archive files. You can select an increment in which to rotate the fi
les automatically, for example, every 30 minutes. I downloaded this softwar
e and installed it and sure enough, I was able to start archiving the ATC tr
ansmissions coming in, all the while streaming them live as well!
>
> The last piece of the puzzle was to enable the Web and FTP servers on the W
indows 7 system and come up with a front-end web page that would tie all of t
hese new resources together for easy access from the Internet. I'm happy to
report, the whole thing came together very nicely and even allows you strea
m directly to your Android or iPhone as well as your desktop! Pretty darn c
ool!
>
> And so, without further ado, here is my new web site for monitoring the AT
C communications at KLVK:
>
> http://klvk.matronics.com/
>
> Just to state the obvious, the stream is silent if there isn't any current
ATC or aircraft communications. During the day, you'll usually hear someth
ing within five or ten minutes. Sometimes much quicker.
>
> I contacted LiveATC.net and they were excited about adding my new stream t
o their web site as well. So, at some point soon, the LiveATC.net feed for L
ivermore Airport will be coming from my hangar! My site http://klvk.matroni
cs.com will continue to be available as well.
>
> For entertainment purposes only!
>
>
>
> -
> Matt Dralle
>
> RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen"
> http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log
> http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log
> http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel
> Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap...
>
> RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer"
> http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log
> Status: 170+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer M
ode
>
> Matt's Livermore Airport Live ATC Stream!
> Check out the live ATC stream directly from my hangar at the Livermore
> Airport. Includes both Tower and Ground transmissions. Archives too!
> For entertainment purposes only. http://klvk.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
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SGFzIHRoZSBleGVtcHRpb24gZm9yIDIgaW5jaCBuIG51bWJlcnMgb24gYSB3YXJiaXJkIGJlZW4g
ZXh0ZW5kZWQKVGhhbmtzCsKgwqAKCgpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgVmVyaXpvbiBXaXJlbGVzcyA0RyBM
VEUgc21hcnRwaG9uZQ=
Message 8
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| Subject: | RE: 2" N numbers |
This isn't an exemption=2C it's the language in 14 CFR =A7 45.22(b)
If your local FSDO is giving you grief about it=2C have them contact AFS 80
0=2C or do so yourself.
From: l29delfin@yahoo.com
Subject:
Has the exemption for 2 inch n numbers on a warbird been extendedThanks
Message 9
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| Subject: | RE: 2" N numbers |
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Flight planning to OSH. |
Well troops looks like its time to start flight planning for OSH. I'll be leaving
KILG the morning of Saturday 27th with the first stop in K8G1. From there
nonstop (overwater) to KHXF. 2:37 for the first leg and 2:34 for the leg to
HXF. Buy cheaper fuel in HXF than sortie to OSH. I hope.
Anyone from the east want to tag along?
Pappy
Sent from my iPad from some where on The 3rd rock from the Sun.
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