Today's Message Index:
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0. 12:26 AM - PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During November! (Matt Dralle)
1. 10:12 AM - Re: Re: GPS and AOA (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
2. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: GPS and AOA (jblake207@comcast.net)
3. 08:39 PM - Chinese Digital ADF and VHF/UHF (PS)
Message 0
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| Subject: | PLEASE READ - Matronics Email List Fund Raiser During November! |
Dear Listers,
Each November I hold a PBS-like fund raiser to support the continued operation
and upgrade of the Email List and Fourm Services at Matronics. It's solely through
the Contributions of List members (you) that these Matronics Lists are possible.
You have probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows on any of the Matronics Lists or related web sites such as the Forums site http://forums.matronics.com , Wiki site http://wiki.matronics.com , or other related pages such as the List Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search , List Browse http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse , etc. This is because I believe in a List experience that is completely about the sport we all enjoy - namely Airplanes and not about annoying advertisements.
During the month of November I will be sending out List messages every couple of
days reminding everyone that the Fund Raiser is underway. I ask for your patience
and understanding during the Fund Raiser and throughout these regular messages.
The Fund Raiser is only financial support mechanism I have to pay all
of the bills associated with running these lists. YOUR personal Contribution
counts!
This year we have a really HUGE and TERRIFIC line up of free gifts to go along
with the various Contribution levels. In fact, there are over 30 different gifts
to choose from - more than we've ever had before! There's something for everyone,
to be sure. Most all of these gifts have been provided by some of the
vary members and vendors that you'll find on the Matronics Lists and they have
been either donated or provided at substantially discounted rates.
This year, these generous members include:
Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com
Bob Nuckolls of the AeroElectric Connection http://www.aeroelectric.com
Corbin Glowacki of My Pilot Store http://www.mypilotstore.com
George Race of Race Consulting http://www.mrrace.com/
Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP http://www.homebuilthelp.com
These are very generous guys and I encourage you to visit their respective web
sites. Each one offers a unique and excellent aviation-related product line.
I would like publicly to thank Andy, Bob, Corbin, George, and Jon their generous
support of the Lists again this year!!
Please make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods including
using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. All three methods afford
you the opportunity to select one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying
Contribution amount!!
To make your Contribution, please visit the secure web site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous financial AND moral
support over the years!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
RV-4/RV-6/RV-8 Builder/Rebuilder/Pilot
Message 1
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Shayne,
As much as I would love to reply regarding the topic of what people should (or
should not) be allowed to buy, build, test, or operate, I have to say that it
is pretty far out on the fringe as a topic for the YAK LIST. Thus everyone will
be glad to know that I have resisted the temptation! :)
That said, the thrust of this topic was to make people aware how dangerous it is
to rely on a "single-source nav based on something as easily jammed as GPS",
(Quote: Brian Lloyd) and that is still a very valid fact.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ShayneThill
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 22:52
Subject: Yak-List: Re: GPS and AOA
[quote="brian(at)lloyd.com"]On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Next day, two Prowlers went down on launch for "NO GPS". The point of this?
> Well besides winning the bet, the point was here were two jets, with
> 6 aircrew with fully operational TACAN, fully operational VOR
> (yeah we have that now too ) fully operational RADAR, fully
> operational ALQ-218 system, and TWO fully operational Ring Laser
> Inertial Systems. Neither jet would launch without GPS. How
> things have changed.
>
I know. It is downright scary just how fast we are moving toward single-source
nav based on something as easily jammed as GPS. It is good to see the LORAN-C
signals reappearing for testing and new modulation being tested on WWVB. It may
mean that someone has gotten religion and we may have a good, multi-source,
jam-resistant, area-navigation system on the horizon. The Europeans had the right
idea when they proposed to use LORAN-C as the WAAS distribution and backup
for Galileo, their version of GPS. Too bad it never materialized.
About 10 years back I was at Tailhook and was able to actually hold a Soviet GPS
jammer, one of the ones that were being sold on the black market for about $4000(us).
It was about the size of a 3x5 card file box as I recall. I have this
life-sized picture of some ass-hat taking one to the top of Mt. Wilson overlooking
the LA basin on some dark and stormy night after the FAA shuts down all
the VORTACs and taking out all the GPS nav. Won't everyone be surprised then!
And speaking of GPS jamming, I have had GPS just go away while feet-wet over the
Atlantic. Both my panel mount and my handheld GPS's were saying, "Satellites?
What satellites!" I was left with two choices: DR and ADF. Fortunately there
was a high-power NDB at my fuel stop (Great Inagua) that I was able to track
outbound after my fuel stop. 45 minutes into my outbound leg both receivers miraculously
came back on-line at the same time. Jamming? Selective availability?
Dunno. But it was both annoying and sobering. People think my insistance on
having a good ADF in the airplane is silly but I still find it quite useful once
I leave the borders of the lower 48.
And people are starting to throw away perfectly good KR-87s. I just picked up an
extra for $100!
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
brian@lloyd.com (brian@lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
> [b]
No private should allowed to buy gos jammer. I once heard that a New Jersey driver
who installed a gps jammer in his car affect the aviation system in his town.
That is dangerous.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411811#411811
Message 2
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Good reason to=C2- carry the low-tech "HHM" with you at all times... even
if it may be a little outdated.
(HHM=Hand Held Map)
Jon Blake
jblake207@comcast.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark G CIV NAVAIR Bitterlich, WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 12:10:25 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: GPS and AOA
itterlich@navy.mil>
Shayne,
As much as I would love to reply regarding the topic of what people should
(or should not) be allowed to buy, build, test, or operate, I have to say t
hat it is pretty far out on the fringe as a topic for the YAK LIST. =C2-T
hus everyone will be glad to know that I have resisted the temptation! =C2
-:)
That said, the thrust of this topic was to make people aware how dangerous
it is to rely on a "single-source nav based on something as easily jammed a
s GPS", (Quote: Brian Lloyd) and that is still a very valid fact.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@mat
ronics.com] On Behalf Of ShayneThill
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 22:52
Subject: Yak-List: Re: GPS and AOA
[quote="brian(at)lloyd.com"]On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Bitterlich,
Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E =C2-wrote:
> Next day, two Prowlers went down on launch for "NO GPS". =C3=AF=C2=C2
=BDThe point of this?
> =C2-Well besides winning the bet, the point was here were two jets, wit
h
> 6 aircrew =C2-with fully operational TACAN, fully operational VOR
> =C3=AF=C2=C2=BD(yeah we have that now =C2-too ) =C3=AF=C2=C2=BDfu
lly operational RADAR, fully
> operational ALQ-218 system, and =C2-TWO fully operational Ring Laser
> Inertial Systems. =C3=AF=C2=C2=BDNeither jet would launch =C2-withou
t GPS.=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD =C2-How
> things have changed.
>
I know. It is downright scary just how fast we are moving toward single-sou
rce nav based on something as easily jammed as GPS. It is good to see the L
ORAN-C signals reappearing for testing and new modulation being tested on W
WVB. It may mean that someone has gotten religion and we may have a good, m
ulti-source, jam-resistant, area-navigation system on the horizon. The Euro
peans had the right idea when they proposed to use LORAN-C as the WAAS dist
ribution and backup for Galileo, their version of GPS. Too bad it never mat
erialized.
About 10 years back I was at Tailhook and was able to actually hold a Sovie
t GPS jammer, one of the ones that were being sold on the black market for
about $4000(us). It was about the size of a 3x5 card file box as I recall.
I have this life-sized picture of some ass-hat taking one to the top of Mt.
Wilson overlooking the LA basin on some dark and stormy night after the FA
A shuts down all the VORTACs and taking out all the GPS nav. Won't everyone
be surprised then!=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD
And speaking of GPS jamming, I have had GPS just go away while feet-wet ove
r the Atlantic. Both my panel mount and my handheld GPS's were saying, "Sat
ellites? What satellites!" I was left with two choices: DR and ADF. Fortuna
tely there was a high-power NDB at my fuel stop (Great Inagua) that I was a
ble to track outbound after my fuel stop. 45 minutes into my outbound leg b
oth receivers miraculously came back on-line at the same time. Jamming? Sel
ective availability? Dunno. But it was both annoying and sobering. People t
hink my insistance on having a good ADF in the airplane is silly but I stil
l find it quite useful once I leave the borders of the lower 48.=C3=AF=C2
=C2=BD
And people are starting to throw away perfectly good KR-87s. I just picked
up an extra for $100!
--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
=C2-brian@lloyd.com (brian@lloyd.com)
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
> [b]
No private should allowed to buy gos jammer. I once heard that a New Jersey
driver who installed a gps jammer in his car affect the aviation system in
his town. That is dangerous.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411811#411811
===========
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
===========
MS -
===========
Message 3
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| Subject: | Chinese Digital ADF and VHF/UHF |
Anyone familiar with the stock Chinese digital radios? I am curious if I can use
them?
--------
PS
Yeager:"Rules are for those who cannot make their own"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411946#411946
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/radio_cj_111.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/digital_adf_130.jpg
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