Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:04 AM - Re: My bad day. (Al Pickering)
2. 04:52 AM - Re: My bad day. (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 09:16 AM - Re: My bad day. (Bill Geipel)
4. 10:31 AM - Re: My bad day. (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
5. 10:41 AM - Re: cockpit project (A. Dennis Savarese)
6. 01:03 PM - M-14P Oil Filter vs. Screens (Todd McCutchan)
7. 01:57 PM - Brain Farts (Cpayne)
8. 02:00 PM - Re: Brain Farts (Richard Hess)
9. 03:17 PM - Re: My bad day. (Todd McCutchan)
10. 03:22 PM - Re: My bad day. (Richard Hess)
11. 07:33 PM - Re: M-14P Oil Filter vs. Screens (Dale)
12. 08:15 PM - Re: Re: M-14P Oil Filter vs. Screens (cjpilot710@aol.com)
13. 09:27 PM - Re: Re: M-14P Oil Filter vs. Screens (Todd McCutchan)
14. 09:48 PM - Re: Re: M-14P Oil Filter vs. Screens (Todd McCutchan)
15. 10:33 PM - Re: My bad day. (Vic)
16. 10:59 PM - Re: Re: My bad day. (Jan Mevis)
17. 11:21 PM - Re: Preoiler (Frank Stelwagon)
Message 1
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Cg=
Message 2
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I am sorry to hear about Pappy's "bad day". =C2- The external oil shut of
f valve has always been a "band-aide" for the real problem, which is the in
ternal valve in the oil pump.=C2-=C2- Jill at M14P has proven this to b
e the problem with oil draining into the engine after shutdown and even pub
lished an article in the Red Star magazine a couple of years ago, with phot
os and drawings, illustrating the problem.=C2- Basically, when the intern
al valve does not close after shut down, the oil can continue to drain into
the engine due to head pressure.=C2- Any external oil shut off valve onl
y masks the real problem.=0ADennis=C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A______________________
__________=0A From: Al Pickering <alpick@live.com.au>=0ATo: "yak-list@matro
nics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com> =0ASent: Monday, January 27, 2014 3:02 A
M=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: My bad day.=0A =0A=0A=0ANice epitaph=0A=0A" I go
t distracted"=0A=0AHmmm dont blame the valve old son.=0A=0AWe all forget st
uff !=0A=0AAl=0A=0ASent from Alspad.=0A=0AOn 27/01/2014, at 12:21 PM, "Erne
st Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com> wrote:=0A=0A=0ASorry to hear about your m
is-fortune Pappy, but I'm glad you didn't have an in flight failure and you
caught it on the ground.=C2-=0A>=0A>=0A>It does say a lot about keeping
things simple though. The more systems you add to anything, the more suscep
tible you are to a failure . It's probably why the Chinese after over 50 ye
ars of manufacture have pretty much kept the design unchanged.=C2-=0A>=0A
>=0A>Companies have armies of full time engineers, dedicated full time to d
esigning, testing, and re-designing systems long before they are released i
nto production. Imagine our surprise when we experience a failure with our
home brew concoctions, despite several hours of trouble free service during
ideal conditions.=0A>=0A>=0A>I remember some advise shared with me several
years back, he said, "Ernie... every time you mess with your airplane, you
become a Test Pilot".=C2-=0A>=0A>=0A>The man who shared that prophetic b
it of wisdom with me was Jimmy Leeward.=C2-=0A>=0A>=0A>Ernie=0A>=0A>=0A>
=0A>On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 7:53 PM, <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:=0A>=0A>
=0A>>I guess by now a number of yawl have heard that I trashed =0Amy M-14p
several weeks back.=C2- I have =0Aan electric oil tank shutoff valve that
I normally close at engine =0Ashutdown.=C2- On start up, I close a =0Asw
itch which opens the valve and completes the electrical circuit to open the
=0Aair solenoid.=C2- Well after 1,800+ =0Ahours, it didn=C3=A2=82=AC
=84=A2t work.=C2- We were =0Adoing a memorial missing man flight, and
I got distracted during the start and =0Aneglected to note oil pressure aft
er start.=C2- I got the green light that indicated the =0Avalve was open,
and of course the engine started fine.=C2- However 5 minutes later after
taxiing to =0Athe run-up area, I notice that I could not get power to chec
k my prop =0Agovernor.=C2- At first I thought I had =0Alost just the gove
rnor and I called the flight lead that I was dropping =0Aout.=C2- As I tu
rned the airplane to =0Ahead for the hangar, the engine made a funny sound,
that made me look at the oil =0Apressure gage.=C2- It read zero of =0Aco
urse and I shut down the mags immediately.=C2- Too late of course.=0A>>At
present the engine is at Barretts in Tulsa and may be fixed by =0AJune.=C2
- A couple guys who have the =0Asame valve that I had have asked me to ta
ke it apart figure what happened.=C2- First of all the valve would not wo
rk on =0Afurther tests.=C2- It was stuck in the =0Aclosed position but wo
uld open manually HOWEVER with a good deal of =0Aresistant.=C2- I could o
perate the =0Aswitch in the cockpit which would show normal indications, bu
t the valve would =0Amove.=C2- And yes the engine was making medal.=0A>>I
disassembled the valve motor, and =0Aseparated it from the valve itself.
=C2- The valve by itself operated smoothly, however the motor body did
=0Anot.=C2- When I disassembled the motor =0Abody, the little electric mo
tor itself seem to turn smoothly.=C2- =0A>>There are 3 sections of gears
above the motor, that seem =0Abe designed to increase the torque of that ti
ny motor.=C2- When I separated those sections, I could =0Anot find any da
maged teeth on the two lower sections and they themselves seemed =0AOK.=C2
- However the upper section =0Acannot be seen or checked because of its l
ocation.=C2- This is also the section that moves 2 =0Amicro switches via
a rocker arm arrangement.=C2- What I found here was 2 things.=C2- One,
one of the micro switches was not =0Aworking at all.=C2- And two, the =0A
gearing section seem to be binding intermittently.=C2- Though I can not s
ee into that area, I =0Asuspect some kind of damage there nor can I determi
ne its cause. =0A>>This valve assembly had 1,800+ hours on =0Ait.=C2- I w
as under the =0Aimpression that the closed position of the valve, would pre
vent the engine from =0Aever being started and that the green light confirm
ed the valve was open.=C2- Not so on both counts.=C2- =0A>>In the end,
the ONE time (although there may =0Ahave been others) I didn=C3=A2=82=AC
=84=A2t check the oil pressure after starting, is the time it =0Afailed.
=C2- =0A>>So be warned this valve setup is not fail safe or idiot =0Aproo
f.=C2- The same thing happened to =0ACraig Payne, and like him, I=C3=A2
=82=AC=84=A2m going to add a big red low oil pressure light, =0Adead
center of the panel.=C2- I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ll put =0Aa pressure sw
itch on the inlet side of the external oil filter.=C2- I=C3=A2=82=AC
=84=A2d advise you guys/gals with the same =0Aset up to do the same.=0A>
>My plans right now waiting for my engine, is do some =0Amajor cockpit refu
rbishment and clean-up.=C2- Along with a bunch of other stuff, I=C3=A2
=82=AC=84=A2ve never had time for and wanted to =0Ado.=C2- I=C3=A2
=82=AC=84=A2ll still get plenty of flying =0A(the Collings B-24 and Stor
ch) that not=C2-a problem.=C2- But I do love to fly my CJ on those acro
=0Aflights at sunset and will miss it - - - for a while.=0A>>=C2-=0A>>Ji
m "Pappy" =0AGoolsby =0A>>et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?
Yak-List tp://forums.matronics.com=0A_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contr
=============== =C2=C2=B7=BA~
=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9Eg(=93=C5-=C3=93M4=C3=93G=C3=9Aq=C3=BC=C2=A2
=C3=C3=A2z=C2=B9=C3=9E=C3=81=C3=8A.=C2=AE'=C2=AB8^a=C2=A9=C5-=C3=8BD
=84=A2=C2=A8=C2=A5=C5-=C3=AE=EF=BD,z=C3=98^1=C2=ABk=C2=A2x=C5=93=C2
=B0=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B4W=C5=A1=C2=B6=C3=C3=9E=C2=B0=C3'=C2=AF=C5-=C2
=AD=C2=A2=C2=BBhn=C2=BA0=C2=B1=C3=AD=C3=A9=C5=A1=C5=B8"=C3=A2=C2
=B2=C3=9B=C2=AD=C5-X=C2=AD=B0=C3=AB,=C2=B9=C3=88Z=C2=B0=C2=B8=C2=AC
=C2=B5I=C3J=C3=C3=ACr=C2=B8=C2=A9=C2=B6*'
Message 3
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Radial engine is meant to leak. Embrace it, feel it, be a part of the round m
otor history
then mop it up when it misses the bucket, spend more money on oil and smile l
arge.
On Jan 27, 2014, at 6:51, "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
> I am sorry to hear about Pappy's "bad day". The external oil shut off va
lve has always been a "band-aide" for the real problem, which is the interna
l valve in the oil pump. Jill at M14P has proven this to be the problem wi
th oil draining into the engine after shutdown and even published an article
in the Red Star magazine a couple of years ago, with photos and drawings, i
llustrating the problem. Basically, when the internal valve does not close a
fter shut down, the oil can continue to drain into the engine due to head pr
essure. Any external oil shut off valve only masks the real problem.
> Dennis
>
> From: Al Pickering <alpick@live.com.au>
> To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 3:02 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: My bad day.
>
> Nice epitaph
>
> " I got distracted"
>
> Hmmm dont blame the valve old son.
>
> We all forget stuff !
>
> Al
>
> Sent from Alspad.
>
> On 27/01/2014, at 12:21 PM, "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Sorry to hear about your mis-fortune Pappy, but I'm glad you didn't have a
n in flight failure and you caught it on the ground.
>>
>> It does say a lot about keeping things simple though. The more systems yo
u add to anything, the more susceptible you are to a failure . It's probably
why the Chinese after over 50 years of manufacture have pretty much kept th
e design unchanged.
>>
>> Companies have armies of full time engineers, dedicated full time to desi
gning, testing, and re-designing systems long before they are released into p
roduction. Imagine our surprise when we experience a failure with our home b
rew concoctions, despite several hours of trouble free service during ideal c
onditions.
>>
>> I remember some advise shared with me several years back, he said, "Ernie
... every time you mess with your airplane, you become a Test Pilot".
>>
>> The man who shared that prophetic bit of wisdom with me was Jimmy Leeward
.
>>
>> Ernie
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 7:53 PM, <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
>> I guess by now a number of yawl have heard that I trashed my M-14p severa
l weeks back. I have an electric oil tank shutoff valve that I normally clo
se at engine shutdown. On start up, I close a switch which opens the valve a
nd completes the electrical circuit to open the air solenoid. Well after 1,
800+ hours, it didn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t work. We were doing a memorial
missing man flight, and I got distracted during the start and neglected to n
ote oil pressure after start. I got the green light that indicated the valv
e was open, and of course the engine started fine. However 5 minutes later a
fter taxiing to the run-up area, I notice that I could not get power to chec
k my prop governor. At first I thought I had lost just the governor and I c
alled the flight lead that I was dropping out. As I turned the airplane to h
ead for the hangar, the engine made a funny sound, that made me look at the o
il pressure gage. It read zero of course and I shut down the mags immediate
ly. Too late of course.
>> At present the engine is at Barretts in Tulsa and may be fixed by June. A
couple guys who have the same valve that I had have asked me to take it apa
rt figure what happened. First of all the valve would not work on further t
ests. It was stuck in the closed position but would open manually HOWEVER w
ith a good deal of resistant. I could operate the switch in the cockpit whi
ch would show normal indications, but the valve would move. And yes the eng
ine was making medal.
>> I disassembled the valve motor, and separated it from the valve itself. T
he valve by itself operated smoothly, however the motor body did not. When I
disassembled the motor body, the little electric motor itself seem to turn s
moothly.
>> There are 3 sections of gears above the motor, that seem be designed to i
ncrease the torque of that tiny motor. When I separated those sections, I c
ould not find any damaged teeth on the two lower sections and they themselve
s seemed OK. However the upper section cannot be seen or checked because of
its location. This is also the section that moves 2 micro switches via a r
ocker arm arrangement. What I found here was 2 things. One, one of the mic
ro switches was not working at all. And two, the gearing section seem to be
binding intermittently. Though I can not see into that area, I suspect som
e kind of damage there nor can I determine its cause.
>> This valve assembly had 1,800+ hours on it. I was under the impression t
hat the closed position of the valve, would prevent the engine from ever bei
ng started and that the green light confirmed the valve was open. Not so on
both counts.
>> In the end, the ONE time (although there may have been others) I didn=C3=A2
=82=AC=84=A2t check the oil pressure after starting, is the time it fa
iled.
>> So be warned this valve setup is not fail safe or idiot proof. The same t
hing happened to Craig Payne, and like him, I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m going
to add a big red low oil pressure light, dead center of the panel. I=C3=A2
=82=AC=84=A2ll put a pressure switch on the inlet side of the external
oil filter. I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2d advise you guys/gals with the same s
et up to do the same.
>> My plans right now waiting for my engine, is do some major cockpit refurb
ishment and clean-up. Along with a bunch of other stuff, I=C3=A2=82=AC
=84=A2ve never had time for and wanted to do. I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ll s
till get plenty of flying (the Collings B-24 and Storch) that not a problem.
But I do love to fly my CJ on those acro flights at sunset and will miss i
t - - - for a while.
>>
>> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>>
>>
>> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Li="nofollow" target="_blank" h
ref="http://www.matronics.com/contributi=
>>
> =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9Eg(=93=C5-=C3=93M
4=C3=93G=C3=9Aq=C3=BC=C2=A2=C3=C3=A2z=C2=B9=C3=9E=C3=81=C3=8A.=C2=AE'=C2=AB
8^a=C2=A9=C5-=C3=8BD=84=A2=C2=A8=C2=A5=C5-=C3=AE=EF=BD,z=C3=98^1=C2
=ABk=C2=A2x=C5=93=C2=B0=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B4W=C5=A1=C2=B6=C3=C3=9E=C2=B0=C3'
=C2=AF=C5-=C2=AD=C2=A2=C2=BBhn=C2=BA0=C2=B1=C3=AD=C3=A9=C5=A1=C5=B8
"=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=9B=C2=AD=C5-X=C2=AD=B0=C3=AB,=C2=B9=C3=88Z=C2=B0=C2
=B8=C2=AC=C2=B5I=C3J=C3=C3=ACr=C2=B8=C2=A9=C2=B6*'
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 4
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Pappy, sorry to hear this happened.
A note on the positive side. If your engine is at Barretts, and you decide to
go ahead and put his pistons and rings in the engine, the oil consumption goes
down by a huge amount (I am talking in-flight here) and the oil getting past
the rings into the cylinders is also drastically reduced (on the ground) due to
closer tolerances and better ring seal when cold. My friend Hubie Tolson has
one of his engines with the upgrades mounted on a SU-31 and I've been watching
it closely. The engine was dyno'ed at something like 430 HP (PF model).
Further, when the engine arrived from Barretts, the thing looked like it had
just come from the factory. Flawless rebuild, beautiful paint, everything looked
just amazing, and it ran the same as it looked.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: My bad day.
Radial engine is meant to leak. Embrace it, feel it, be a part of the round motor
history then mop it up when it misses the bucket, spend more money on oil and
smile large.
On Jan 27, 2014, at 6:51, "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
I am sorry to hear about Pappy's "bad day". The external oil shut off
valve has always been a "band-aide" for the real problem, which is the internal
valve in the oil pump. Jill at M14P has proven this to be the problem with
oil draining into the engine after shutdown and even published an article in
the Red Star magazine a couple of years ago, with photos and drawings, illustrating
the problem. Basically, when the internal valve does not close after shut
down, the oil can continue to drain into the engine due to head pressure.
Any external oil shut off valve only masks the real problem.
Dennis
________________________________
From: Al Pickering <alpick@live.com.au>
To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 3:02 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: My bad day.
Nice epitaph
" I got distracted"
Hmmm dont blame the valve old son.
We all forget stuff !
Al
Sent from Alspad.
On 27/01/2014, at 12:21 PM, "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry to hear about your mis-fortune Pappy, but I'm glad you didn't
have an in flight failure and you caught it on the ground.
It does say a lot about keeping things simple though. The more
systems you add to anything, the more susceptible you are to a failure . It's
probably why the Chinese after over 50 years of manufacture have pretty much kept
the design unchanged.
Companies have armies of full time engineers, dedicated full time
to designing, testing, and re-designing systems long before they are released
into production. Imagine our surprise when we experience a failure with our
home brew concoctions, despite several hours of trouble free service during ideal
conditions.
I remember some advise shared with me several years back, he said,
"Ernie... every time you mess with your airplane, you become a Test Pilot".
The man who shared that prophetic bit of wisdom with me was Jimmy
Leeward.
Ernie
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 7:53 PM, <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
I guess by now a number of yawl have heard that I trashed
my M-14p several weeks back. I have an electric oil tank shutoff valve that
I normally close at engine shutdown. On start up, I close a switch which opens
the valve and completes the electrical circuit to open the air solenoid.
Well after 1,800+ hours, it didnt work. We were doing a memorial missing man
flight, and I got distracted during the start and neglected to note oil pressure
after start. I got the green light that indicated the valve was open, and
of course the engine started fine. However 5 minutes later after taxiing to the
run-up area, I notice that I could not get power to check my prop governor.
At first I thought I had lost just the governor and I called the flight lead
that I was dropping out. As I turned the airplane to head for the hangar, the
engine made a funny sound, that made me look at the oil pressure gage. It read
zero of course and I shut down the mags immediately. Too late of course.
At present the engine is at Barretts in Tulsa and may be
fixed by June. A couple guys who have the same valve that I had have asked
me to take it apart figure what happened. First of all the valve would not work
on further tests. It was stuck in the closed position but would open manually
HOWEVER with a good deal of resistant. I could operate the switch in the
cockpit which would show normal indications, but the valve would move. And yes
the engine was making medal.
I disassembled the valve motor, and separated it from the
valve itself. The valve by itself operated smoothly, however the motor body
did not. When I disassembled the motor body, the little electric motor itself
seem to turn smoothly.
There are 3 sections of gears above the motor, that seem
be designed to increase the torque of that tiny motor. When I separated those
sections, I could not find any damaged teeth on the two lower sections and
they themselves seemed OK. However the upper section cannot be seen or checked
because of its location. This is also the section that moves 2 micro switches
via a rocker arm arrangement. What I found here was 2 things. One, one of
the micro switches was not working at all. And two, the gearing section seem
to be binding intermittently. Though I can not see into that area, I suspect
some kind of damage there nor can I determine its cause.
This valve assembly had 1,800+ hours on it. I was under
the impression that the closed position of the valve, would prevent the engine
from ever being started and that the green light confirmed the valve was open.
Not so on both counts.
In the end, the ONE time (although there may have been
others) I didnt check the oil pressure after starting, is the time it failed.
So be warned this valve setup is not fail safe or idiot
proof. The same thing happened to Craig Payne, and like him, Im going to add
a big red low oil pressure light, dead center of the panel. Ill put a pressure
switch on the inlet side of the external oil filter. Id advise you guys/gals
with the same set up to do the same.
My plans right now waiting for my engine, is do some major
cockpit refurbishment and clean-up. Along with a bunch of other stuff, Ive
never had time for and wanted to do. Ill still get plenty of flying (the Collings
B-24 and Storch) that not a problem. But I do love to fly my CJ on those
acro flights at sunset and will miss it - - - for a while.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Li="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contributi=
~,g(M4Gqz.'8^aD ,z^1kxWhn0"X,ZIJr*'
==================================
//www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
==================================
cs.com
==================================
matronics.com/contribution
==================================
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: cockpit project |
That's why it is highly recommended to cut the ends of the tubes at a 45 de
gree angle.=C2- This will help prevent the heal of the boot/shoe from acc
identally catching on the end of the tube.=0ADennis=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_________
_______________________=0A From: bill wade <bwade154@yahoo.com>=0ATo: "yak-
list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com> =0ASent: Sunday, January 26, 2
014 10:23 PM=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: cockpit project=0A =0A=0A=0AFirst sor
ry about your engine how many of Barrett's M-14 mods are you going for?. Ji
m I was told or read a story quite awhile=C2-ago about the rudder cable c
overs it went something like this an experienced hi time Russian acro pilot
and a GIB was demonstrating the capability's of the Yak 52 and did a maneu
ver that required full rudder and what happened was ether the pilot or the
GIBs boot heel got caught on the end of the cable=C2-cover and with the r
udder boot straps was unable to free the boot resulting in a=C2-stall spi
n and=C2-two dead. I don't know if the story's true but I think it could
be. My covers were not delivered with the aircraft so I was not able to see
if this could happen.=0ABill Wade N4450Y=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Sunday, January 26,
2014 8:31 PM, Tom Elliott <N13472@aol.com> wrote:=0A =0AWHY?=0AJust anothe
r opportunity for something to get under the cover and jam the rudder or we
ar the cables.=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0ATom Elliott=0ACJ-6A NX63727=0A777 Quartz
Ave=0APMB 7004=0ASandy Valley=0A NV=0A89019=0ACell 541-297-5497=0AN13472@A
OL.COM=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0AFrom:owner-yak-list-s
erver@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
Of cjpilot710@aol.com=0ASent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 5:18 PM=0ATo: yak-li
st@matronics.com=0ASubject: Yak-List: cockpit project=0A=C2-=0ATroops=0A
=C2-=0AAs part of my cockpit refurbishment project, I=99ve often wo
nder about putting rudder cables guards (a la Yak 52) over the CJ=99s
exposed rudder cables.=C2- =0AQuestion #1=C2- Has any of you CJ guys d
one this?=0AQuestion #2=C2- Is it an easy fit?=0AQuestion #3=C2- Assumi
ng =9Cyes=9D to all above, anyone out there have some available
?=0A=C2-=0AJim =9CPappy=9D Goolsby=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0Ahttp:/
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp:
//www.matronics.com/contribution=0A=C2-=0ANo virus found in this message.
=0AChecked by AVG - http://www.avg.com/=0AVersion: 2014.0.4259 / 01/26/14
=0Ak-List" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gatnics.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.matronics.co
==============
Message 6
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| Subject: | M-14P Oil Filter vs. Screens |
Can anyone provide pros vs. cons of putting an oil filter on the M-14P
installed on a Yak 50? I assume it would be similar to the process for
the Yak 52.
Please also include how to do this or where to get the kit.
Thanks!
Todd McCutchan
Fast Aircraft
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell - 260.402.1740
Email: <mailto:todd@fastaircraft.com> todd@fastaircraft.com
Skype: tmccutchan
Web: <http://www.fastaircraft.com/> www.fastaircraft.com &
<http://www.toddmccutchanairshows.com/> www.toddmccutchanairshows.com
Message 7
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I believe that no amount of equipment I have installed or thought of can circumvent
a solid Brain Fart. My low oil pressure kit was designed to improve SA, and
it has saved some butt. Over the years I have managed to bypass all those safety
and SA mods to do something stupid. Even the times with two experienced
'changers in the airplane, stupid still happened.
Checklists, audio callouts and procedures do help but do not prevent stupid. I
am reminded of the 4 pilots landing at San Francisco:
Sum Ting Wong
We Too Lo
Ho Lee Fuc
Bang Ding Ow
So what was the excuse the SFO firetruck drivers use for running over someone they
were there to save? Not once but by Two trucks! And then there are the Southwest
guys landing at the wrong airport...not that I haven't done it but grass
strips cut into Florida swamp all look alike. Pity Poor Pappy. 25,000+ hours
and the only airplane he ever broke was his. No justice I tell you :)
Craig Payne
Message 8
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It took two fire trucks because the first one only wounded the person... :-
(~
Richard Hess
President
International Jets, Inc.
Cell 404-964-4885
-----Original Message-----
From: Cpayne <cpayne@joimail.com>
Sent: Mon, Jan 27, 2014 4:57 pm
Subject: Yak-List: Brain Farts
I believe that no amount of equipment I have installed or thought of can
ircumvent a solid Brain Fart. My low oil pressure kit was designed to impro
ve
A, and it has saved some butt. Over the years I have managed to bypass all
hose safety and SA mods to do something stupid. Even the times with two
xperienced 'changers in the airplane, stupid still happened.
Checklists, audio callouts and procedures do help but do not prevent stupid
. I
m reminded of the 4 pilots landing at San Francisco:
Sum Ting Wong
e Too Lo
o Lee Fuc
ang Ding Ow
So what was the excuse the SFO firetruck drivers use for running over someo
ne
hey were there to save? Not once but by Two trucks! And then there are the
outhwest guys landing at the wrong airport...not that I haven't done it but
rass strips cut into Florida swamp all look alike. Pity Poor Pappy. 25,000+
ours and the only airplane he ever broke was his. No justice I tell you :)
Craig Payne
-= - The Yak-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
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-========================
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-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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Message 9
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Hi Pappy,
I am interested if any product improvements have been discussed with Kimball? I
am considering installing their oil shutoff valve but our experience gives me
pause.
I am also wondering now about the possibility of the oil shutoff closing inflight?
Thanks!
Todd McCutchan
Fast Aircraft
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell - 260.402.1740
Email: todd@fastaircraft.com
Skype: tmccutchan
Web: www.fastaircraft.com & www.toddmccutchanairshows.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 11:30 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: My bad day.
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Pappy, sorry to hear this happened.
A note on the positive side. If your engine is at Barretts, and you decide to
go ahead and put his pistons and rings in the engine, the oil consumption goes
down by a huge amount (I am talking in-flight here) and the oil getting past
the rings into the cylinders is also drastically reduced (on the ground) due to
closer tolerances and better ring seal when cold. My friend Hubie Tolson has
one of his engines with the upgrades mounted on a SU-31 and I've been watching
it closely. The engine was dyno'ed at something like 430 HP (PF model).
Further, when the engine arrived from Barretts, the thing looked like it had
just come from the factory. Flawless rebuild, beautiful paint, everything looked
just amazing, and it ran the same as it looked.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: My bad day.
Radial engine is meant to leak. Embrace it, feel it, be a part of the round motor
history then mop it up when it misses the bucket, spend more money on oil and
smile large.
On Jan 27, 2014, at 6:51, "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
I am sorry to hear about Pappy's "bad day". The external oil shut off
valve has always been a "band-aide" for the real problem, which is the internal
valve in the oil pump. Jill at M14P has proven this to be the problem with
oil draining into the engine after shutdown and even published an article in
the Red Star magazine a couple of years ago, with photos and drawings, illustrating
the problem. Basically, when the internal valve does not close after shut
down, the oil can continue to drain into the engine due to head pressure.
Any external oil shut off valve only masks the real problem.
Dennis
________________________________
From: Al Pickering <alpick@live.com.au>
To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 3:02 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: My bad day.
Nice epitaph
" I got distracted"
Hmmm dont blame the valve old son.
We all forget stuff !
Al
Sent from Alspad.
On 27/01/2014, at 12:21 PM, "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry to hear about your mis-fortune Pappy, but I'm glad you didn't
have an in flight failure and you caught it on the ground.
It does say a lot about keeping things simple though. The more
systems you add to anything, the more susceptible you are to a failure . It's
probably why the Chinese after over 50 years of manufacture have pretty much kept
the design unchanged.
Companies have armies of full time engineers, dedicated full time
to designing, testing, and re-designing systems long before they are released
into production. Imagine our surprise when we experience a failure with our
home brew concoctions, despite several hours of trouble free service during ideal
conditions.
I remember some advise shared with me several years back, he said,
"Ernie... every time you mess with your airplane, you become a Test Pilot".
The man who shared that prophetic bit of wisdom with me was Jimmy
Leeward.
Ernie
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 7:53 PM, <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
I guess by now a number of yawl have heard that I trashed
my M-14p several weeks back. I have an electric oil tank shutoff valve that
I normally close at engine shutdown. On start up, I close a switch which opens
the valve and completes the electrical circuit to open the air solenoid.
Well after 1,800+ hours, it didnt work. We were doing a memorial missing man
flight, and I got distracted during the start and neglected to note oil pressure
after start. I got the green light that indicated the valve was open, and
of course the engine started fine. However 5 minutes later after taxiing to the
run-up area, I notice that I could not get power to check my prop governor.
At first I thought I had lost just the governor and I called the flight lead
that I was dropping out. As I turned the airplane to head for the hangar, the
engine made a funny sound, that made me look at the oil pressure gage. It read
zero of course and I shut down the mags !
immediately. Too late of course.
At present the engine is at Barretts in Tulsa and may be
fixed by June. A couple guys who have the same valve that I had have asked
me to take it apart figure what happened. First of all the valve would not work
on further tests. It was stuck in the closed position but would open manually
HOWEVER with a good deal of resistant. I could operate the switch in the
cockpit which would show normal indications, but the valve would move. And yes
the engine was making medal.
I disassembled the valve motor, and separated it from the
valve itself. The valve by itself operated smoothly, however the motor body
did not. When I disassembled the motor body, the little electric motor itself
seem to turn smoothly.
There are 3 sections of gears above the motor, that seem
be designed to increase the torque of that tiny motor. When I separated those
sections, I could not find any damaged teeth on the two lower sections and
they themselves seemed OK. However the upper section cannot be seen or checked
because of its location. This is also the section that moves 2 micro switches
via a rocker arm arrangement. What I found here was 2 things. One, one of
the micro switches was not working at all. And two, the gearing section seem
to be binding intermittently. Though I can not see into that area, I suspect
some kind of damage there nor can I determine its cause.
This valve assembly had 1,800+ hours on it. I was under
the impression that the closed position of the valve, would prevent the engine
from ever being started and that the green light confirmed the valve was open.
Not so on both counts.
In the end, the ONE time (although there may have been
others) I didnt check the oil pressure after starting, is the time it failed.
So be warned this valve setup is not fail safe or idiot
proof. The same thing happened to Craig Payne, and like him, Im going to add
a big red low oil pressure light, dead center of the panel. Ill put a pressure
switch on the inlet side of the external oil filter. Id advise you guys/gals
with the same set up to do the same.
My plans right now waiting for my engine, is do some major
cockpit refurbishment and clean-up. Along with a bunch of other stuff, Ive
never had time for and wanted to do. Ill still get plenty of flying (the Collings
B-24 and Storch) that not a problem. But I do love to fly my CJ on those
acro flights at sunset and will miss it - - - for a while.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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~,g(M4Gqz.'8^aD ,z^1kxWhn0"X,ZIJr*'
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Message 10
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Todd,
I've had a Darton Clean Kit and the oil shutoff valve on Mongoose for ten y
ears and 800 hours with no operational problems. It does put a stress on th
e bottom stem of the oil tank so my guys built a little support shelf. My g
uys also rebuilt the valve this year when we installed an overhauled M-14P.
I've never had a problem with it. As a motor operated valve it shouldn't c
lose unless you flip the switch.
Richard Hess
President
International Jets, Inc.
Cell 404-964-4885
-----Original Message-----
From: Todd McCutchan <todd@fastaircraft.com>
Sent: Mon, Jan 27, 2014 6:17 pm
Subject: RE: Yak-List: My bad day.
Hi Pappy,
I am interested if any product improvements have been discussed with Kimbal
l? I
m considering installing their oil shutoff valve but our experience gives m
e
ause.
I am also wondering now about the possibility of the oil shutoff closing
nflight?
Thanks!
Todd McCutchan
ast Aircraft
-34A & Yak-50
Cell - 260.402.1740
Email: todd@fastaircraft.com
kype: tmccutchan
eb: www.fastaircraft.com & www.toddmccutchanairshows.com
-----Original Message-----
rom: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matr
onics.com]
n Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
ent: Monday, January 27, 2014 11:30 AM
o: yak-list@matronics.com
ubject: RE: Yak-List: My bad day.
-> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Pappy, sorry to hear this happened.
A note on the positive side. If your engine is at Barretts, and you decide
to
o ahead and put his pistons and rings in the engine, the oil consumption go
es
own by a huge amount (I am talking in-flight here) and the oil getting past
the
ings into the cylinders is also drastically reduced (on the ground) due to
loser tolerances and better ring seal when cold. My friend Hubie Tolson h
as
ne of his engines with the upgrades mounted on a SU-31 and I've been watchi
ng
t closely. The engine was dyno'ed at something like 430 HP (PF model).
urther, when the engine arrived from Barretts, the thing looked like it had
ust come from the factory. Flawless rebuild, beautiful paint, everything
ooked just amazing, and it ran the same as it looked.
Mark
----Original Message-----
rom: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matr
onics.com]
n Behalf Of Bill Geipel
ent: Monday, January 27, 2014 12:20 PM
o: yak-list@matronics.com
ubject: Re: Yak-List: My bad day.
Radial engine is meant to leak. Embrace it, feel it, be a part of the round
otor history then mop it up when it misses the bucket, spend more money on
oil
nd smile large.
n Jan 27, 2014, at 6:51, "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
rote:
I am sorry to hear about Pappy's "bad day". The external oil shut
off
alve has always been a "band-aide" for the real problem, which is the inter
nal
alve in the oil pump. Jill at M14P has proven this to be the problem with
oil
raining into the engine after shutdown and even published an article in the
Red
tar magazine a couple of years ago, with photos and drawings, illustrating
the
roblem. Basically, when the internal valve does not close after shut down,
the
il can continue to drain into the engine due to head pressure. Any externa
l
il shut off valve only masks the real problem.
Dennis
_______________________________
From: Al Pickering <alpick@live.com.au>
To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 3:02 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: My bad day.
Nice epitaph
" I got distracted"
Hmmm dont blame the valve old son.
We all forget stuff !
Al
Sent from Alspad.
On 27/01/2014, at 12:21 PM, "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
rote:
Sorry to hear about your mis-fortune Pappy, but I'm glad yo
u
idn't have an in flight failure and you caught it on the ground.
It does say a lot about keeping things simple though. The m
ore
ystems you add to anything, the more susceptible you are to a failure . It'
s
robably why the Chinese after over 50 years of manufacture have pretty much
ept the design unchanged.
Companies have armies of full time engineers, dedicated ful
l
ime to designing, testing, and re-designing systems long before they are
eleased into production. Imagine our surprise when we experience a failure
with
ur home brew concoctions, despite several hours of trouble free service dur
ing
deal conditions.
I remember some advise shared with me several years back, h
e
aid, "Ernie... every time you mess with your airplane, you become a Test
ilot".
The man who shared that prophetic bit of wisdom with me was
immy Leeward.
Ernie
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 7:53 PM, <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
I guess by now a number of yawl have heard that I
rashed my M-14p several weeks back. I have an electric oil tank shutoff va
lve
hat I normally close at engine shutdown. On start up, I close a switch whi
ch
pens the valve and completes the electrical circuit to open the air solenoi
d.
ell after 1,800+ hours, it didn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t work. We were doi
ng a memorial missing man
light, and I got distracted during the start and neglected to note oil pres
sure
fter start. I got the green light that indicated the valve was open, and o
f
ourse the engine started fine. However 5 minutes later after taxiing to th
e
un-up area, I notice that I could not get power to check my prop governor.
At
irst I thought I had lost just the governor and I called the flight lead th
at I
as dropping out. As I turned the airplane to head for the hangar, the engi
ne
ade a funny sound, that made me look at the oil pressure gage. It read zer
o of
ourse and I shut down the mags !
immediately. Too late of course.
At present the engine is at Barretts in Tulsa and ma
y be
ixed by June. A couple guys who have the same valve that I had have asked
me
o take it apart figure what happened. First of all the valve would not wor
k on
urther tests. It was stuck in the closed position but would open manually
OWEVER with a good deal of resistant. I could operate the switch in the
ockpit which would show normal indications, but the valve would move. And
yes
he engine was making medal.
I disassembled the valve motor, and separated it fro
m
he valve itself. The valve by itself operated smoothly, however the motor
body
id not. When I disassembled the motor body, the little electric motor itse
lf
eem to turn smoothly.
There are 3 sections of gears above the motor, that
seem
e designed to increase the torque of that tiny motor. When I separated tho
se
ections, I could not find any damaged teeth on the two lower sections and t
hey
hemselves seemed OK. However the upper section cannot be seen or checked
ecause of its location. This is also the section that moves 2 micro switch
es
ia a rocker arm arrangement. What I found here was 2 things. One, one of
the
icro switches was not working at all. And two, the gearing section seem to
be
inding intermittently. Though I can not see into that area, I suspect some
ind of damage there nor can I determine its cause.
This valve assembly had 1,800+ hours on it. I was u
nder
he impression that the closed position of the valve, would prevent the engi
ne
rom ever being started and that the green light confirmed the valve was ope
n.
ot so on both counts.
In the end, the ONE time (although there may have be
en
thers) I didn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t check the oil pressure after startin
g, is the time it failed.
So be warned this valve setup is not fail safe or id
iot
roof. The same thing happened to Craig Payne, and like him, I=C3=A2=82
=AC=84=A2m going to add
big red low oil pressure light, dead center of the panel. I=C3=A2=82
=AC=84=A2ll put a
ressure switch on the inlet side of the external oil filter. I=C3=A2=82
=AC=84=A2d advise you
uys/gals with the same set up to do the same.
My plans right now waiting for my engine, is do some
ajor cockpit refurbishment and clean-up. Along with a bunch of other stuff
,
=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ve never had time for and wanted to do. I=C3=A2
=82=AC=84=A2ll still get plenty of flying
the Collings B-24 and Storch) that not a problem. But I do love to fly my
CJ
n those acro flights at sunset and will miss it - - - for a while.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak
-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Li="nofollow"
arget="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contributi=
=C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9Eg(=93=C5-
=C3=93M4=C3=93G=C3=9Aq=C3=BC=C2=A2=C3=C3=A2z=C2=B9=C3=9E=C3=81=C3=8A.=C2
=AE'=C2=AB8^a=C2=A9=C5-=C3=8BD=84=A2=C2=A8=C2=A5=C5-=C3=AE ,z=C3=98^
1=C2=ABk=C2=A2x=C5=93=C2=B0=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B4W=C5=A1=C2=B6=C3=C3=9E=C2
=B0=C3'=C2=AF=C5-=C2=AD=C2=A2=C2=BBhn=C2=BA0=C2=B1=C3=AD=C3=A9
=C5=A1=C5=B8"=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=9B=C2=AD=C5-X=C2=AD=B0=C3=AB,=C2=B9=C3
=88Z=C2=B0=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B5I=C3J=C3=C3=ACr=C2=B8=C2=A9=C2=B6*'
======================
============
//www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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-= - The Yak-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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Message 11
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|
| Subject: | Re: M-14P Oil Filter vs. Screens |
Use the search engine on this site . You will find lots of Intel. Well hammered
subject. Yes get a filter. Goes on the output line before the oil cooler.
Lots of ways to do it. I use a Hamburger adapter from Jegs or Summitt Racing
supply width -12an fittings or Metric adapters which ever way to choose to do
it. I have set several up. Pros - cleans oil, Cons - cost money like everything
else.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417733#417733
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: M-14P Oil Filter vs. Screens |
A 10 micron filter on the out put side of the engine, hot oil is cleaned
before it enters the oil cooler. First it keeps the oil cooler cleaner and
thus more efficient. Once the oil is cooled it goes right to the oil tank as
almost clean oil. It keeps the oil tank cleaner. Most clearances in an
engine are 25 microns or more (I've been told.) A 10 micron filter is
taking all contaminates over 10 microns out of the oil, meaning that
contaminates 10 and under, will not have an abrasive wear effect on engine parts.
That's the theory and seem to work. We have fine oil filters on the B24's
PW1830s, I fly for the Collings Foundation. These regularly go to 1,400 to
1,500 hundred out before we pull them for overhaul. That does not happen
with original metal screens. Before this screw up I did, my M-14p had 1,600
hours on it before I did a top overhaul. When Barrett inspected the lower
end, he found it still almost as tight as new. It was very clean too. I
had put a 10 micron filter on it when I installed it on the airplane.
The other gadget that really makes big difference in engine life is a
pre-oiler. Its been said a number of times, that 70% of engine ware happens
during engine start. Again on the B24's PW1830s, we've installed pre-oilers
and religiously pre-oil before engine start. That and the filters make an
engine last much longer. I have a pre-oiler on my CJ and until this valve
failure, my engine was doing just fine at 1,805 hours of operation.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 1/27/2014 10:34:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dale@frii.com writes:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Dale" <dale@frii.com>
Use the search engine on this site . You will find lots of Intel. Well
hammered subject. Yes get a filter. Goes on the output line before the oil
cooler. Lots of ways to do it. I use a Hamburger adapter from Jegs or
Summitt Racing supply width -12an fittings or Metric adapters which ever way
to choose to do it. I have set several up. Pros - cleans oil, Cons - cost
money like everything else.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417733#417733
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: M-14P Oil Filter vs. Screens |
Anyone tried the Airwolf for the M-14P? Is there room in the cowl of a Yak 5
0?
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd@fastaircraft.com
www.fastaircraft.com
> On Jan 27, 2014, at 8:33 PM, "Dale" <dale@frii.com> wrote:
>
>
> Use the search engine on this site . You will find lots of Intel. Well h
ammered subject. Yes get a filter. Goes on the output line before the oil c
ooler. Lots of ways to do it. I use a Hamburger adapter from Jegs or Summit
t Racing supply width -12an fittings or Metric adapters which ever way to ch
oose to do it. I have set several up. Pros - cleans oil, Cons - cost money
like everything else.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417733#417733
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
>
>
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Re: M-14P Oil Filter vs. Screens |
Who makes the pre-oiler? I have asked around out here but no one knows of on
e.
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd@fastaircraft.com
www.fastaircraft.com
> On Jan 27, 2014, at 9:14 PM, cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
>
> A 10 micron filter on the out put side of the engine, hot oil is cleaned b
efore it enters the oil cooler. First it keeps the oil cooler cleaner and th
us more efficient. Once the oil is cooled it goes right to the oil tank as a
lmost clean oil. It keeps the oil tank cleaner. Most clearances in an engi
ne are 25 microns or more (I've been told.) A 10 micron filter is taking al
l contaminates over 10 microns out of the oil, meaning that contaminates 10 a
nd under, will not have an abrasive wear effect on engine parts. That's the
theory and seem to work. We have fine oil filters on the B24's PW1830s, I f
ly for the Collings Foundation. These regularly go to 1,400 to 1,500 hundre
d out before we pull them for overhaul. That does not happen with original m
etal screens. Before this screw up I did, my M-14p had 1,600 hours on it be
fore I did a top overhaul. When Barrett inspected the lower end, he found i
t still almost as tight as new. It was very clean too. I had put a 10 micr
on filter on it when I installed it on the airplane.
>
> The other gadget that really makes big difference in engine life is a pre-
oiler. Its been said a number of times, that 70% of engine ware happens dur
ing engine start. Again on the B24's PW1830s, we've installed pre-oilers an
d religiously pre-oil before engine start. That and the filters make an eng
ine last much longer. I have a pre-oiler on my CJ and until this valve fail
ure, my engine was doing just fine at 1,805 hours of operation.
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
> In a message dated 1/27/2014 10:34:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dale@fri
i.com writes:
>
> Use the search engine on this site . You will find lots of Intel. Well h
ammered subject. Yes get a filter. Goes on the output line before the oil c
ooler. Lots of ways to do it. I use a Hamburger adapter from Jegs or Summit
t Racing supply width -12an fittings or Metric adapters which ever way to ch
oose to do it. I have set several up. Pros - cleans oil, Cons - cost money
like everything else.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417733#417733
>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 15
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So sorry to hear about this electrical oil shut-off misery with obvious dramatic
consequences, even though the system did its job for a very long time. But indeed
this incident just confirmed my decision not to go the electric way . In
your country you say : In God we trust . But who really has equal trust in electrickery
?? In this actual case there were at least two failed components, and
as it often is with electrical parts, one is unable to check those components
by eyesight in order to catch them before they fail. So unless you come up
with a dual system of control switches and indicators you really dont know if
and when one set has broken down.
These considerations have lead me to a strictly mechanical system as described
earlier in this posting :
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=98977
The oil shut-off ball valve is linked by push-pull rod with the fuel shut-off lever,
so before starting the engine you wont miss to open the fuel tap - and the
oil valve gets activated the same time. An additional spring keeps the oil
valve open in case the pushrod failed in flight.
In case of a broken mag earth wire you will have to kill the engine by fuel shut-off.
So for this rare event I included a Bowden cable operated hook that disengages
the oil valve to remain open when the fuel tap gets closed. And no, I
dont pretend this system was easier to fabricate than the electrics but somehow
I feel better with this ........
Cheers
Vic
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I also did not want to add another possible point of failure, how good it
might be.
My engine (M14R) is rare and expensive, so I'd rather have it leaking oil
..
So, a very simple solution: a hose connected to the oil barrel.
Immediately after each flight I drain the oil from the barrel.
At the end of that hose, at the left side of the cowling, I have a
connector (as in hydraulics, don't know the proper term in English).
Since I can easily reach the shut-off valve at the bottom of the barrel
without opening the cowling, the whole exercise takes only two minutes.
BR,
Jan
Yak 50 F-AZUK
On 28/01/14 07:32, "Vic" <vicmolnar@aol.com> wrote:
>
>So sorry to hear about this electrical oil shut-off misery with obvious
>dramatic consequences, even though the system did its job for a very long
>time. But indeed this incident just confirmed my decision not to go the
>electric way . In your country you say : In God we trust . But who really
>has equal trust in electrickery ?? In this actual case there were at
>least two failed components, and as it often is with electrical parts,
>one is unable to check those components by eyesight in order to catch
>them before they fail. So unless you come up with a dual system of
>control switches and indicators you really dont know if and when one
>set has broken down.
> These considerations have lead me to a strictly mechanical system as
>described earlier in this posting :
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=98977
>The oil shut-off ball valve is linked by push-pull rod with the fuel
>shut-off lever, so before starting the engine you wont miss to open the
>fuel tap - and the oil valve gets activated the same time. An additional
>spring keeps the oil valve open in case the pushrod failed in flight.
> In case of a broken mag earth wire you will have to kill the engine by
>fuel shut-off. So for this rare event I included a Bowden cable operated
>hook that disengages the oil valve to remain open when the fuel tap gets
>closed. And no, I dont pretend this system was easier to fabricate than
>the electrics but somehow I feel better with this ........
>
> Cheers
> Vic
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417744#417744
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/shutoff_891.jpg
>
>
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The best one is Oil-Matic, they advertise in Trade_A_Plane.
Frank
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