Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:33 AM - Re: Re: Aerobatic with CJ6A (Michael Orth)
2. 05:12 AM - Re: Re: Aerobatic with CJ6A (cjpilot710@aol.com)
3. 05:48 AM - Re: Re: Aerobatic with CJ6A (A. Dennis Savarese)
4. 07:01 AM - Re: Re: Aerobatic with CJ6A (DaBear)
5. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: Aerobatic with CJ6A (James Goolsby)
6. 08:16 AM - propeller pull through procedure (PaulW)
7. 08:43 AM - Re: propeller pull through procedure (Richard Goode)
8. 08:50 AM - Re: propeller pull through procedure (Byron M Fox)
9. 09:10 AM - Re: propeller pull through procedure (Shaun Dawson)
10. 09:10 AM - Re: propeller pull through procedure (Bill Geipel)
11. 11:40 AM - Re: propeller pull through procedure (Dale)
12. 12:17 PM - Re: Re: Aerobatic with CJ6A (Marcus Bates)
13. 01:32 PM - Re: propeller pull through procedure (DaBear)
14. 01:34 PM - Re: Re: propeller pull through procedure (Javier Carrasco)
15. 05:54 PM - Re: propeller pull through procedure (Dale)
16. 06:43 PM - Re: Aerobatic with CJ6A (keithmckinley)
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| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic with CJ6A |
With all this talk of spins, you may be interested in this video.
A/C did 26 rotations.
http://diverjency.com/blog/2014/02/16/plane-crash-lands-after-spinnning-2
6-times-pilot-ok
Michael
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Aerobatic with CJ6A
My CJ has a M-14p in it. With a GIB and full fuel, I can put the
airplane in a flat spin. I do a normal spin entry, but leave the power
on. When you release the back stick pressure, the airplane continues to
spin, but more importantly, the stick will not automatically go to
neutral. It will stay in your stomach, and requires about 3 lbs of
pressure to move it forward. You can also recover by closing the
throttle. Now I have not - but have been told that increasing power you
can flatten the spin even more and have seen video of a Yak doing just
that.
You are correct about the CJ not wanting to spin nor morphing into a
nose low spiral. However I have found that when my C/G is at or very
near the rear limit the CJ will spin normally. I believe a lot of CJs
after leaving China and having those back radios removed, tend to be
nose heavy even when ballast is added. That maybe part of the reason
and if done solo too.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 2/16/2014 10:38:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
cetopfed@gmail.com writes:
Besides being somewhat underpowered, I don't believe that a stock CJ
with it's big dihedral wing will ever do a flat spin. As a
matter-of-fact it does not want to stay in a legitimate spin after 2-3
turns, morphing instead into a nose low spiral. The CJ is a forgiving,
docile, aerobatic performer. However, competent instruction, and HOURS
of practice on your routine (muscle memory) would be the safest course
of action before attempting to perform at a show. I've been in the
absolute worst spots in my CJ during practices and a time or two at
shows and it has never failed to treat me with respect.
Bon Chance with your performance.
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
X26 Sebastian, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418842#418842
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
02/16/14
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| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic with CJ6A |
When I had the HS6 (260hp) engine in the airplane, I set the C/G up the
forward limit, with pilot, chute, normal oil, and :30 minutes fuel. If I
remember correctly that came to about 33 pounds of lead in the tail. When I
put the M-14P in I had to up that to 55 lbs IF my memory is right. I
remember pulling 186 pounds of radios and wiring out the CJ when I got it, and
right now I'm doing some major rewiring and I'm STILL finding original wiring
I don't need.
There are a number of ways to put ballast in the CJ. Basic rule is the
further back you mount the ballast - less you have to put in. On my
airplane, I removed the tail skid, and fill the tube with molten lead. I than
turned it on its side, making a simple mold to fill again with lead, leaving a
hole for the tie down rope. The rest of the ballast is in a canvas bag
sown to fit in the very last part of the tail cone. The bag is inserted
empty, a pre measured amount of lead bird shot is poured in. The bag has a draw
sting for closing and takes on the shape of the tail compartment. Every 3
or so years, I vacuum out the bird shot, removed the bag and inspected the
compartment. I've never found in damage nor corrosion in the 19 years
I've own the airplane. There are a number of way to mount ballast and
opinions run wide and deep on the best way to do it. Just make sure you put in
the correct amount for where you mount it and that it is secured.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 2/17/2014 12:40:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
psalter@aol.com writes:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "PS" <psalter@aol.com>
Approximately how much weight is normally added to the tail of the CJ?
Phil
--------
Phil
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418847#418847
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| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic with CJ6A |
When we assembled Buddy Moman's CJ a few years ago, we added approximately
40-50 lbs using two pre-weighed 25 lb bags of bird shot.- Buddy was ingen
ious in creating a bag fabricated to the exact internal dimensions of the t
ail cone (using poster board templates) with a lid with a hole in it.- Th
e bag was fabricated at an upholstery shop using the templates and a 3 dime
nsional drawing buddy made.- The lid folded over the top of the bag and w
as velcro'd down.- Inside the bag was another bag with a pull-tie (as I r
emember).- The hole was for "funneling" the bird shot into the bag.- Wi
th the airplane on the scales, we added the premeasured and weighed birdsho
t and calculated the CG right then and there.- Once the correct amount of
bird shot was in the bag, the inside bag pull-tie was pulled and knotted.
- Using the bird shot was much easier than using bars of lead and trying
to keep them in place.=0A=0AHope this helps.=0A=0ADennis=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____
____________________________=0A From: PS <psalter@aol.com>=0ATo: yak-list@m
atronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 11:40 PM=0ASubject: Yak-Lis
salter@aol.com>=0A=0AApproximately how much weight is normally added to the
tail of the CJ?- =0A=0APhil=0A=0A--------=0APhil=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this
topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4188
======================
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| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic with CJ6A |
I would encourage everyone who has not PERSONALLY completed a W&B on their
CJ to do so. Level, weigh, and calculate their CG. I would bet many would
be surprised at where the CG is in relation to the recommendations. I've
flown the CJ 1400 hours in many places on the CG and can't get it to flat
spin, nor stay in a spin unless I'm aft of 23% MAC. That is very close to
the aft CG limit.
I'd also recommend you not put weight in the tail of the CJ. While you have
to put more weight bringing it forward, I'd recommend putting it in the
radio/baggage area to insure that you are not over stressing the tail nor
creating momentum with that weight back there. Many people do put weight
back there, it's just my opinion.
What are people using for forward and aft limits? The recommended CG range
of the CJ is somewhat narrow. What I find is that setting up the CJ to fly
at the forward limit (with me flying in the front seat) then it is difficult
to put someone in the back that weighs more than 220lbs (including chute)
without going past rear limit.
I find if you set up the plane to be able to fly with a reasonable sized gib
and baggage, when you fly solo, you'll be forward of the recommended CG.
Now it's been discussed what the negatives are regarding going past forward
CG, it is much better to be forward than aft.
All of this is ..My not so humble opinion, your mileage may be different.
Void where prohibited. Weight before cooking, Don't make investment
decisions, without seeing your own advisor, etc...
Bear
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Aerobatic with CJ6A
When I had the HS6 (260hp) engine in the airplane, I set the C/G up the
forward limit, with pilot, chute, normal oil, and :30 minutes fuel. If I
remember correctly that came to about 33 pounds of lead in the tail. When I
put the M-14P in I had to up that to 55 lbs IF my memory is right. I
remember pulling 186 pounds of radios and wiring out the CJ when I got it,
and right now I'm doing some major rewiring and I'm STILL finding original
wiring I don't need.
There are a number of ways to put ballast in the CJ. Basic rule is the
further back you mount the ballast - less you have to put in. On my
airplane, I removed the tail skid, and fill the tube with molten lead. I
than turned it on its side, making a simple mold to fill again with lead,
leaving a hole for the tie down rope. The rest of the ballast is in a
canvas bag sown to fit in the very last part of the tail cone. The bag is
inserted empty, a pre measured amount of lead bird shot is poured in. The
bag has a draw sting for closing and takes on the shape of the tail
compartment. Every 3 or so years, I vacuum out the bird shot, removed the
bag and inspected the compartment. I've never found in damage nor corrosion
in the 19 years I've own the airplane. There are a number of way to mount
ballast and opinions run wide and deep on the best way to do it. Just make
sure you put in the correct amount for where you mount it and that it is
secured.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 2/17/2014 12:40:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
psalter@aol.com <mailto:psalter@aol.com> writes:
<mailto:psalter@aol.com> >
Approximately how much weight is normally added to the tail of the CJ?
Phil
--------
Phil
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418847#418847
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| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic with CJ6A |
In 2003 when Bushi Cheng came to OSH, brain Lloyd asked Bushi about over str
essing the tail with ballast that far back. Bushi said it didn't matter bec
ause the CJ wasn't "big enough" to be effected by that factor. Words to tha
t effect. Brain had used much bigger words of course - something like 'pola
r angular momentum" which to be honest I personally still don't understand. :
-/
And the CJ will do a flat spin (I done them - inadvertently at first). BUT t
he CG must be at its aft limit. AAMOF it has been reported to me by a reall
y reliable guy, that one of our Russian acro guys demo a inverted flat spin
to him. No I have not tried it. To old and to slow.
"Normal disclaimers apply"
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Sent from my iPad from some where on The 3rd rock from the Sun.
> On Feb 17, 2014, at th10:00, "DaBear" <dabear@damned.org> wrote:
>
> I would encourage everyone who has not PERSONALLY completed a W&B on their
CJ to do so. Level, weigh, and calculate their CG. I would bet many would
be surprised at where the CG is in relation to the recommendations. I
=99ve flown the CJ 1400 hours in many places on the CG and can=99t get
it to flat spin, nor stay in a spin unless I=99m aft of 23% MAC. Tha
t is very close to the aft CG limit.
>
> I=99d also recommend you not put weight in the tail of the CJ. While
you have to put more weight bringing it forward, I=99d recommend putt
ing it in the radio/baggage area to insure that you are not over stressing t
he tail nor creating momentum with that weight back there. Many people do p
ut weight back there, it=99s just my opinion.
>
> What are people using for forward and aft limits? The recommended CG ran
ge of the CJ is somewhat narrow. What I find is that setting up the CJ to f
ly at the forward limit (with me flying in the front seat) then it is diffic
ult to put someone in the back that weighs more than 220lbs (including chute
) without going past rear limit.
>
> I find if you set up the plane to be able to fly with a reasonable sized g
ib and baggage, when you fly solo, you=99ll be forward of the recommen
ded CG. Now it=99s been discussed what the negatives are regarding go
ing past forward CG, it is much better to be forward than aft.
>
> All of this is .My not so humble opinion, your mileage may be dif
ferent. Void where prohibited. Weight before cooking, Don=99t make i
nvestment decisions, without seeing your own advisor, etc..
>
> Bear
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of cjpilot710@aol.com
> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 8:12 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Aerobatic with CJ6A
>
> When I had the HS6 (260hp) engine in the airplane, I set the C/G up the fo
rward limit, with pilot, chute, normal oil, and :30 minutes fuel. If I reme
mber correctly that came to about 33 pounds of lead in the tail. When I put
the M-14P in I had to up that to 55 lbs IF my memory is right. I remember p
ulling 186 pounds of radios and wiring out the CJ when I got it, and right n
ow I'm doing some major rewiring and I'm STILL finding original wiring I don
't need.
>
> There are a number of ways to put ballast in the CJ. Basic rule is the fu
rther back you mount the ballast - less you have to put in. On my airplane,
I removed the tail skid, and fill the tube with molten lead. I than turned
it on its side, making a simple mold to fill again with lead, leaving a hol
e for the tie down rope. The rest of the ballast is in a canvas bag sown to
fit in the very last part of the tail cone. The bag is inserted empty, a p
re measured amount of lead bird shot is poured in. The bag has a draw sting
for closing and takes on the shape of the tail compartment. Every 3 or so y
ears, I vacuum out the bird shot, removed the bag and inspected the compartm
ent. I've never found in damage nor corrosion in the 19 years I've own the a
irplane. There are a number of way to mount ballast and opinions run wide a
nd deep on the best way to do it. Just make sure you put in the correct amo
unt for where you mount it and that it is secured.
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
> In a message dated 2/17/2014 12:40:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, psalter@
aol.com writes:
>
> Approximately how much weight is normally added to the tail of the CJ?
>
> Phil
>
> --------
> Phil
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418847#418847
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | propeller pull through procedure |
Hi
This probably has been covered a zillion times, but I can't find any reference
to it.
With a M14-P in a Yak, how many times do you really pull the prop through and when
do you know you have pulled it through enough?
Some say 9 times, some say till no more oil come out of the exhaust, etc.
I am pulling through 36 blades. Is that an overkill?
I have been thinking that maybe I am just pumping in more oil which I am draining
out again if done to many times.
What if you squirt a bit of fuel in with the primer just before or after the pull
through to make the oil thinner. Will that work to get the oil out or just
the opposite?
There is a drain mod installed in the bottom 3 cylinders where the oil drain out
through a tap at the bottom and of course containers underneath the exhausts.
At the moment I pull through 36 blades, do rest of pre-flight which may take another
15 minutes or more, then 3 blades, 3 primes, 3 blades, 3 primes.
Then get in, strap in, 3 primes and start.
Any comments on the number of blades to turn?
regards
Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418874#418874
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| Subject: | propeller pull through procedure |
The really is not a fixed number of blades, since there are a lot of
variables, the main ones being:
A simple point - but two or three blade prop?
Temperature - if it is very cold it will take much longer for viscous oil to
leave the engine.
Engine condition - does a lot of oil come down into the intake tubes and
into the lower cylinders? If the engine is old and worn and this is
happening, clearly you will need to turn the propeller through more
revolutions than you will a new engine with tight clearances which does not
allow much oil into the intake tubes/cylinders
The amount of oil that comes out - obviously connected with the point above,
but if any significant amount of oil comes out of the exhausts, then you
need to continue turning until it is absolutely clear.
But, turning the propeller is not "squirting more oil in"- certainly not in
measurable quantities.
Priming into the supercharger, particularly in cold weather will help to
move congealed oil. But make sure it is into "system" rather than
"cylinder", or you will get dramatically over priming, and possibly a
hydraulic lock, which is just what you are trying to avoid.
Having said that, I would suggest that 18 revolutions is more than is likely
to be needed except in the case of a worn/oily engine.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of PaulW
Sent: 17 February 2014 16:16
Subject: Yak-List: propeller pull through procedure
Hi
This probably has been covered a zillion times, but I can't find any
reference to it.
With a M14-P in a Yak, how many times do you really pull the prop through
and when do you know you have pulled it through enough?
Some say 9 times, some say till no more oil come out of the exhaust, etc.
I am pulling through 36 blades. Is that an overkill?
I have been thinking that maybe I am just pumping in more oil which I am
draining out again if done to many times.
What if you squirt a bit of fuel in with the primer just before or after the
pull through to make the oil thinner. Will that work to get the oil out or
just the opposite?
There is a drain mod installed in the bottom 3 cylinders where the oil drain
out through a tap at the bottom and of course containers underneath the
exhausts.
At the moment I pull through 36 blades, do rest of pre-flight which may take
another 15 minutes or more, then 3 blades, 3 primes, 3 blades, 3 primes.
Then get in, strap in, 3 primes and start.
Any comments on the number of blades to turn?
regards
Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418874#418874
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by
MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
36 blades is a bit of over-kill, Paul. I pull 18 because somebody told me that
a dozen years ago. Fundamentally, however, you're correct when you observe that
no more drips from your exhaust stacks. You're not pumping more oil into the
cylinders.
To be sure, though, you're great upper body exercise.
Blitz Fox
415-307-2405
> On Feb 17, 2014, at 8:16 AM, "PaulW" <paul@budcyber.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi
>
> This probably has been covered a zillion times, but I can't find any reference
to it.
>
> With a M14-P in a Yak, how many times do you really pull the prop through and
when do you know you have pulled it through enough?
>
> Some say 9 times, some say till no more oil come out of the exhaust, etc.
>
> I am pulling through 36 blades. Is that an overkill?
>
> I have been thinking that maybe I am just pumping in more oil which I am draining
out again if done to many times.
> What if you squirt a bit of fuel in with the primer just before or after the
pull through to make the oil thinner. Will that work to get the oil out or just
the opposite?
>
> There is a drain mod installed in the bottom 3 cylinders where the oil drain
out through a tap at the bottom and of course containers underneath the exhausts.
>
> At the moment I pull through 36 blades, do rest of pre-flight which may take
another 15 minutes or more, then 3 blades, 3 primes, 3 blades, 3 primes.
> Then get in, strap in, 3 primes and start.
>
> Any comments on the number of blades to turn?
>
> regards
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418874#418874
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
I'm sure this is a dumb question, but I'm kind of a dumb guy: Is there any
reason to not use the starter to pull the blades through? Why is this done
manually?
I can think of a at least one reason off-hand... don't want to run the risk
that you start the engine accidentally. Are there others? Don't want to
use up your air pressure?
Shaun
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 8:50 AM, Byron M Fox <byronmfox@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 36 blades is a bit of over-kill, Paul. I pull 18 because somebody told me
> that a dozen years ago. Fundamentally, however, you're correct when you
> observe that no more drips from your exhaust stacks. You're not pumping
> more oil into the cylinders.
>
> To be sure, though, you're great upper body exercise.
>
> Blitz Fox
> 415-307-2405
>
> > On Feb 17, 2014, at 8:16 AM, "PaulW" <paul@budcyber.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > This probably has been covered a zillion times, but I can't find any
> reference to it.
> >
> > With a M14-P in a Yak, how many times do you really pull the prop
> through and when do you know you have pulled it through enough?
> >
> > Some say 9 times, some say till no more oil come out of the exhaust, etc.
> >
> > I am pulling through 36 blades. Is that an overkill?
> >
> > I have been thinking that maybe I am just pumping in more oil which I am
> draining out again if done to many times.
> > What if you squirt a bit of fuel in with the primer just before or after
> the pull through to make the oil thinner. Will that work to get the oil out
> or just the opposite?
> >
> > There is a drain mod installed in the bottom 3 cylinders where the oil
> drain out through a tap at the bottom and of course containers underneath
> the exhausts.
> >
> > At the moment I pull through 36 blades, do rest of pre-flight which may
> take another 15 minutes or more, then 3 blades, 3 primes, 3 blades, 3
> primes.
> > Then get in, strap in, 3 primes and start.
> >
> > Any comments on the number of blades to turn?
> >
> > regards
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418874#418874
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
36 times. U r my hero. What big muscles you have.
On Feb 17, 2014, at 9:16, "PaulW" <paul@budcyber.com> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> This probably has been covered a zillion times, but I can't find any reference
to it.
>
> With a M14-P in a Yak, how many times do you really pull the prop through and
when do you know you have pulled it through enough?
>
> Some say 9 times, some say till no more oil come out of the exhaust, etc.
>
> I am pulling through 36 blades. Is that an overkill?
>
> I have been thinking that maybe I am just pumping in more oil which I am draining
out again if done to many times.
> What if you squirt a bit of fuel in with the primer just before or after the
pull through to make the oil thinner. Will that work to get the oil out or just
the opposite?
>
> There is a drain mod installed in the bottom 3 cylinders where the oil drain
out through a tap at the bottom and of course containers underneath the exhausts.
>
> At the moment I pull through 36 blades, do rest of pre-flight which may take
another 15 minutes or more, then 3 blades, 3 primes, 3 blades, 3 primes.
> Then get in, strap in, 3 primes and start.
>
> Any comments on the number of blades to turn?
>
> regards
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418874#418874
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
You can bend a rod with just the air starter and can do it just as easily hand
propping it with too much force. Big round engins have a clutch in the starter
that diengages if it hits a hydrolock. You don't.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418891#418891
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic with CJ6A |
YOU CAN ALSO FILL THE TAILSKID WITH MOLTEN LEAD............You will have to
repaint it.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: A. Den
nis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>=0ATo: "yak-list@matronics.com" <
yak-list@matronics.com> =0ASent: Monday, February 17, 2014 7:47 AM=0ASubjec
t: Re: Yak-List: Re: Aerobatic with CJ6A=0A =0A=0A=0AWhen we assembled Budd
y Moman's CJ a few years ago, we added approximately 40-50 lbs using two pr
e-weighed 25 lb bags of bird shot.- Buddy was ingenious in creating a bag
fabricated to the exact internal dimensions of the tail cone (using poster
board templates) with a lid with a hole in it.- The bag was fabricated a
t an upholstery shop using the templates and a 3 dimensional drawing buddy
made.- The lid folded over the top of the bag and was velcro'd down.- I
nside the bag was another bag with a pull-tie (as I remember).- The hole
was for "funneling" the bird shot into the bag.- With the airplane on the
scales, we added the premeasured and weighed birdshot and calculated the C
G right then and there.- Once the correct amount of bird shot was in the
bag, the inside bag pull-tie was pulled and knotted.- Using the bird shot
was much easier than using bars of lead and trying to keep them in place.
=0A=0AHope this helps.=0A=0ADennis=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__________________________
______=0A From: PS <psalter@aol.com>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com =0ASent:
Sunday, February 16, 2014 11:40 PM=0ASubject: Yak-List: Re: Aerobatic with
pproximately=0A how much weight is normally added to the tail of the CJ?-
=0A=0APhil=0A=0A--------=0APhil=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:
=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418847#gator?Yak-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Linbsp; - -
- - -=0Asp; - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Adm==
=
Message 13
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| Subject: | propeller pull through procedure |
The idea of pulling the blades through by hand is NOT to get the oil out (it
is 2nd ), it is primarily to feel for a hydraulic (oil) lock). If there is
too much oil in the Cyl then pulling through will bend the rod. You need to
NOT pull if there is too much resistance as you can bend a rod by hand. The
rest of the procedure IS to get the oil out of the CYL and not into the
intake, so don't pull the prop backward.
I have an oil scavenge pump, so there is not much oil left in the engine and
I have an engine/oil tank/cooler heater so the oil is easier to move when
the OAT is cold. I still pull 9 blades on the first start of the day.
I don't prime/pull blades/prime/pull blades. Once I'm done clearing the
engine, I get set in the cockpit. Then full pump for pressure, prime, then
start. My engine will normally start in 2-3 blades with that procedure.
There is a lot of "ART" to starting the M14P. Once you learn what works for
your engine in different modes (cold, hot, first time of day, after many
flights), then use those procedures. What works on one engine will work on
all/most, but there are differences in the engines such that you'll find
you'll want to "tweek" your procedures for your situations.
YMMV
Bear
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Shaun Dawson
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: propeller pull through procedure
I'm sure this is a dumb question, but I'm kind of a dumb guy: Is there any
reason to not use the starter to pull the blades through? Why is this done
manually?
I can think of a at least one reason off-hand... don't want to run the risk
that you start the engine accidentally. Are there others? Don't want to
use up your air pressure?
Shaun
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 8:50 AM, Byron M Fox <byronmfox@gmail.com
<mailto:byronmfox@gmail.com> > wrote:
<mailto:byronmfox@gmail.com> >
36 blades is a bit of over-kill, Paul. I pull 18 because somebody told me
that a dozen years ago. Fundamentally, however, you're correct when you
observe that no more drips from your exhaust stacks. You're not pumping more
oil into the cylinders.
To be sure, though, you're great upper body exercise.
Blitz Fox
415-307-2405 <tel:415-307-2405>
> On Feb 17, 2014, at 8:16 AM, "PaulW" <paul@budcyber.com
<mailto:paul@budcyber.com> > wrote:
>
<mailto:paul@budcyber.com> >
>
> Hi
>
> This probably has been covered a zillion times, but I can't find any
reference to it.
>
> With a M14-P in a Yak, how many times do you really pull the prop through
and when do you know you have pulled it through enough?
>
> Some say 9 times, some say till no more oil come out of the exhaust, etc.
>
> I am pulling through 36 blades. Is that an overkill?
>
> I have been thinking that maybe I am just pumping in more oil which I am
draining out again if done to many times.
> What if you squirt a bit of fuel in with the primer just before or after
the pull through to make the oil thinner. Will that work to get the oil out
or just the opposite?
>
> There is a drain mod installed in the bottom 3 cylinders where the oil
drain out through a tap at the bottom and of course containers underneath
the exhausts.
>
> At the moment I pull through 36 blades, do rest of pre-flight which may
take another 15 minutes or more, then 3 blades, 3 primes, 3 blades, 3
primes.
> Then get in, strap in, 3 primes and start.
>
> Any comments on the number of blades to turn?
>
> regards
> Paul
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418874#418874
>
>
rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
Hi Paul,=0A=0AI pull 10 blades on my 3 bladed prop right after I enter the
hanger, so any oil that is going to drip is contained and not on the asphla
t. Then I carry on with anything that needs to be done before pushing out o
f the hangar which can take 15 to 20 minutes. Then I do 15 more blades, I f
I see any oil dripping then I stop let drain and start again from zero. Th
e next is three primes on left 3 primes 3 on right. Six to 9 blades and clo
se the oil drain. jump on the cockpit 2 shots on each side of the switch an
d start.=0A=0AOver do it, it is better that way.=0A=0AJavier Carrasco=0AYak
-55m=0AN5245H=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Monday, February 17, 2014 2:47 PM, Dale <
ii.com>=0A=0AYou can bend a rod with just the air starter and can do it jus
t as easily hand propping it with too much force.- Big round engins have
a clutch in the starter that diengages if it hits a hydrolock. You don't.
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.co
-========================
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List
======
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
Follow the advice of the people that posted checking for a hydro lock by feel.
Do not use the starter unless you want what happened to this poor sole's engine.
Was a $20K mistake. You CAN way over prime and do it with fuel as well. If
the engine stops no matter how long I always check before starting again. Cheap
insurance. Make sure you have intake drains as well on the lower cylinder
intake tubes.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418912#418912
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_02_17_16_40_43_590_759.jpg
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Aerobatic with CJ6A |
Pappy,
I would imagine that a aft loaded CJ with an M-14 might be coaxed into a flat spin.
Must be interesting!
My reference was for a stock CJ since it looked like that's what the original poster
has.
Have you ever tried to spin it inverted?
Keith
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
X26 Sebastian, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418919#418919
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