Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:39 AM - Re: propeller pull through procedure (Harv)
2. 07:33 AM - Re: Re: propeller pull through procedure (jblake207@comcast.net)
3. 07:47 AM - Re: propeller pull through procedure (Joe Enzminger)
4. 08:28 AM - Re: Re: propeller pull through procedure (A. Dennis Savarese)
5. 09:05 AM - Re: Re: propeller pull through procedure (Walter Lannon)
6. 09:15 AM - Re: Re: propeller pull through procedure (Walter Lannon)
7. 09:29 AM - Re: Re: propeller pull through procedure (Gill Gutierrez)
8. 01:06 PM - Re: Re: propeller pull through procedure (A. Dennis Savarese)
9. 01:12 PM - Re: propeller pull through procedure (LawnDart)
10. 01:20 PM - Re: Re: propeller pull through procedure (Gill Gutierrez)
11. 01:48 PM - Re: Re: propeller pull through procedure (Todd McCutchan)
12. 01:57 PM - Re: propeller pull through procedure (LawnDart)
13. 02:00 PM - Re: Re: propeller pull through procedure (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
14. 02:12 PM - Re: Re: propeller pull through procedure (Gill Gutierrez)
15. 02:29 PM - Re: Re: propeller pull through procedure (Mark Davis)
16. 02:32 PM - Re: Re: propeller pull through procedure (jblake207@comcast.net)
17. 02:35 PM - Re: Re: propeller pull through procedure (jblake207@comcast.net)
18. 04:05 PM - Re: Re: propeller pull through procedure (Mark Davis)
19. 07:09 PM - Re: Re: propeller pull through procedure (cjpilot710@aol.com)
20. 11:04 PM - Re: Re: propeller pull through procedure (Todd McCutchan)
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
Joe
Great info right there, thanks for sharing.
I believe that the prop pull through is something we should re-evaluate from time
to time.
I particularly like your comments relating to turning the prop backwards if a cylinder
is locked (I had this the other day) and using the fuel primer to thin
oil that might be collected in the intake tubes so it can drain (if manifold
drain kit is fitted).
Rgs
Harv
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418992#418992
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
One more tidbit of advice on hydraulic lock. =C2- This is aimed directly
at the CJ-6 since that=99s what I am familiar with, but may be applic
able to the other round motor airplanes as well. =C2- The air induction s
ystem of the lower cowl is a great collector of water, so after an aircraft
wash or if the airplane sits outside overnight in a rain shower one should
clear the lower cowl of water before starting the engine. =C2- Pulling t
he prop thru in this case has no effect. =C2- One must drop the lower cow
l or otherwise eliminate residual water in the lower induction cowl. =C2-
The simplest method to keep the induction clear of fluid is to drill a sma
ll hole or two in the lowest point(s) of the induction cowl thus allowing f
luid to drain on its own. =C2- This was a hard learned lesson by a friend
who washed his airplane, pulled the prop thru as described to clear oil, a
nd then cranked it to go fly. =C2- The engine ran for a few seconds and t
hen abruptly locked from the ingestion of water.
Jon Blake
jblake207@comcast.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd McCutchan" <todd@fastaircraft.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 10:11:15 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd@fastaircraft.com
www.fastaircraft.com
On Feb 18, 2014, at 4:21 PM, "Joe Enzminger" < panchoandlefty2002@yahoo.com
> wrote:
com >
After 9 years of owning a CJ and 3 years of owning a Yak-55, and having the
same questions, I think having a good understanding of the theory behind "
pulling the prop through" is important. =C2-Too many people rely on time
honored and passed down lore in deciding how to prevent hydraulic lock.
Hydraulic lock occurs when the cylinder head attempts to compress incompres
sible fluid (usually oil or fuel). =C2-If the volume of fluid in the cyli
nder is more than the total volume of the cylinder when the cylinder head i
s at full compression, the force required to continue to move the cylinder
head will increase dramatically. =C2-If you continue to force it through,
something besides the incompressible fluid will give first (usually a conn
ecting rod).
As you pull the prop through, each cylinder is at a slightly different phas
e of the power cycle. =C2-The goal is to have each cylinder that is susce
ptible to a lock (usually the lower ones), go through a complete cycle - in
take, compression, power, exhaust. =C2-For a cylinder to lock, it is usua
lly necessary that both the intake and exhaust valves be closed (otherwise
the fluid would drain out of the cylinder into the exhaust (and your hangar
floor), or your intake (more on this later).
In the condition where both valves are closed, you are either between the i
ntake-compression or the power-exhaust phase of the compression cycle. =C2
-If the latter, as you pull, the cylinder head is moving "down", or away
from the top of the cylinder, and when it reaches the bottom, the exhaust v
alve will open and any fluid in the cylinder will begin to drain out the ex
haust. =C2-You'll also usually hear some air actually get sucked into the
cylinder. =C2-Usually when I hear this sucking sound its a clue to stop
for a few seconds and make sure I'm upwind of the exhaust (because oil is a
bout to come streaming out). =C2-In this situation, even though you may h
ave had enough oil to generate a lock, in a short time it will drain out an
d you'll be AOK to start (after completing checking all the other cylinders
). =C2-The colder it is outside, the more time you should give it to drai
n.
In the former case, (intake-compression), you'll feel the lock. =C2-If yo
u get here, what you do next depends on your airplane.
If you don't have intake drains installed, then your only option is to pull
the spark plugs and drain the oil. =C2-The advice not to pull the prop b
ackward applies here because if you do, the intake valve will open and the
oil will dump into the intake. =C2-You'll be able to pull the prop throug
h after that, but when you start the engine there is a good chance that oil
will immediately be sucked back into the cylinder, locking at power, and t
rashing your engine. =C2-
If you do have intake drains installed, then pulling the prop through backw
ard is =C2-safe (in my opinion - although others might disagree and I'd b
e interested in learning their reasons), provided you also take the time to
make sure you get oil draining out of your intake drain afterward. =C2-T
he technique is to go back enough to allow the intake valve to open. =C2-
Again, usually you can hear this as a sucking sound as air is sucked into t
he intake valve when it opens. =C2-Once you hear this, wait a few moments
and check to see if oil starts to drain from the intake. =C2-If you don'
t see oil, then it is likely you have a plug in your intake drains and you
need to pull your plugs and drains to clear them out. =C2-However, in mos
t cases, you'll start to see a steady stream of oil that usually takes 10 t
o 15 minutes to stop. =C2-Do keep in mind that while pulling the prop thr
ough backwards you might hit a lock on another cylinder, in which case you
should stop and pull plugs. =C2-Rare, but I suppose !
it could happen. =C2-Once you've given the oil time to drain, pull the pr
op through normally to confirm that you've successfully cleared the lock, a
nd continue with your normal procedure until you've checked all the cylinde
rs - in other words, if you find a lock on blade 2 and clear it, don't stop
- continue to pull through to check the other cylinders.
You can also use the primer to thin out the oil in the intake to make it dr
ain quicker. =C2-If you don't have intake drains, I do not recommend usin
g the primer to "thin out the oil" as the fuel will collect in the intake a
nd could actually cause a hydraulic lock by itself. =C2-=C2-
In any of these airplanes, I would HIGHLY recommend intake drains. =C2-An
other condition that can trash an engine is oil draining into a lower cylin
der and out the cylinder though an open intake valve into the intake (where
it sits). =C2-You dutifully pull the prop through (with no abnormal resi
stance), and start the engine, whereby all that oil (and the prime you shot
in) gets sucked in through the intake and blocks the compression stroke, t
rashing your engine.
My goal in pulling the prop through is to have each cylinder go through one
full intake/compression/power/exhaust cycle. =C2-On the M14 this require
s 6 crankshaft revolutions, or 18 blades on a 3 blade prop and 12 on a two
blade. =C2-I believe it to be the same for the HS6A, but I'm not 100% sur
e. =C2-More is just making your arms tired. =C2-If I get a lot of oil o
ut of my first pull-through session, I might do another after letting the a
irplane sit a few minutes just to make sure everything is clear.
Another note about pulling though - remember that this might be the most da
ngerous thing you do the entire flight. =C2-Make triple sure mags and sho
wer of sparks are off, and make sure the aircraft is chocked (especially if
you do this inside of the hangar). =C2-Keep your limbs clear of the plan
e of rotation and always assume that you might inadvertently start the engi
ne. =C2-Always. =C2-Lots of war stories about what happens if you don't
.
Joe Enzminger
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418964#418964
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?=============
===============bsp;=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-- List Contribution Web Site -p;=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
"The actual minimum CRANKSHAFT rotation necessary to cycle all cylinders is
4.5 for all 9 cyl. radials. That is 9 blades for a direct drive engine.
Minimum for the M14P is 6 blades ( 4.5 X 0.658 X 2) and for the Huosai 7
blades (4.5 X 0.787 X 2). "
Walt,
Thanks for that! I've always suspected I didn't quite have that right.
So the chart would be:
Engine Prop Blades
M14 2 6
M14 3 9
HS6A 2 7
HS6A 3 11 (is there such a thing?)
Joe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418998#418998
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
Someone please check my math because this is what I calculate for the
Housai engine. One complete revolution covers 7 cylinders. ie: 360
degrees/9= 40 degrees per cylinder. 360 degrees * .787 = 283 degrees/40
degrees = 7 cylinders per 2 blades (360 degrees). Therefore 1 blade
covers 3.5 cylinders. 2 blades = 7 cylinders and 3 blades = 9.5
cylinders. Thus to cycle through all cylinders completely for a Housai
engine is 3 blades
For the M14, using the same analogy, 360 * .658 = 237 degrees/40 = 5.9
cylinders per 2 blades. Therefore 1 blade covers 2.9 cylinders.
Therefore to cycle all cylinders completely on an M14, would require 4
blades, not 3 because 3 blades is not quite 9 cylinders.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 2/19/2014 9:47 AM, Joe Enzminger wrote:
>
> "The actual minimum CRANKSHAFT rotation necessary to cycle all cylinders is
> 4.5 for all 9 cyl. radials. That is 9 blades for a direct drive engine.
> Minimum for the M14P is 6 blades ( 4.5 X 0.658 X 2) and for the Huosai 7
> blades (4.5 X 0.787 X 2). "
>
> Walt,
>
> Thanks for that! I've always suspected I didn't quite have that right.
>
> So the chart would be:
>
> Engine Prop Blades
> M14 2 6
> M14 3 9
> HS6A 2 7
> HS6A 3 11 (is there such a thing?)
>
> Joe
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418998#418998
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
Thanks Joe;
I keep forgetting about the 3 blade prop. - never had one.
Of course these are minimum requirements. Out of long habit from R1340 days
I usually pull 9 blades but as you suggested once you have done a CLEAN full
cycle you are ready to go.
Any more is great exercise!
The one fairly common procedure I strongly dis-agree with is pulling the
prop through after priming the engine. Sure, it may show that your intake
drains are open, etc. but, as I have posted many times before, ANY type of
failure of a mag. switch or the "P" lead is a LIVE magneto. It's a game of
Russian Roulette and eventually someone will lose.
Walt.
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Enzminger
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 7:47 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
<panchoandlefty2002@yahoo.com>
"The actual minimum CRANKSHAFT rotation necessary to cycle all cylinders is
4.5 for all 9 cyl. radials. That is 9 blades for a direct drive engine.
Minimum for the M14P is 6 blades ( 4.5 X 0.658 X 2) and for the Huosai 7
blades (4.5 X 0.787 X 2). "
Walt,
Thanks for that! I've always suspected I didn't quite have that right.
So the chart would be:
Engine Prop Blades
M14 2 6
M14 3 9
HS6A 2 7
HS6A 3 11 (is there such a thing?)
Joe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418998#418998
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
Hi Dennis;
All that math gives me a headache before lunch! I think you may have
forgotten that one cycle requires 720 degs. of crank rotation rather
than 360.
Cheers;
Walt
From: A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
Someone please check my math because this is what I calculate for the
Housai engine. One complete revolution covers 7 cylinders. ie: 360
degrees/9 = 40 degrees per cylinder. 360 degrees * .787 = 283
degrees/40 degrees = 7 cylinders per 2 blades (360 degrees).
Therefore 1 blade covers 3.5 cylinders. 2 blades = 7 cylinders and 3
blades = 9.5 cylinders. Thus to cycle through all cylinders
completely for a Housai engine is 3 blades
For the M14, using the same analogy, 360 * .658 = 237 degrees/40 =
5.9 cylinders per 2 blades. Therefore 1 blade covers 2.9 cylinders.
Therefore to cycle all cylinders completely on an M14, would require 4
blades, not 3 because 3 blades is not quite 9 cylinders.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1On 2/19/2014 9:47 AM, Joe Enzminger wrote:
mailto:panchoandlefty2002@yahoo.com
"The actual minimum CRANKSHAFT rotation necessary to cycle all cylinders
is
4.5 for all 9 cyl. radials. That is 9 blades for a direct drive engine.
Minimum for the M14P is 6 blades ( 4.5 X 0.658 X 2) and for the Huosai 7
blades (4.5 X 0.787 X 2). "
Walt,
Thanks for that! I've always suspected I didn't quite have that right.
So the chart would be:
Engine Prop Blades
M14 2 6
M14 3 9
HS6A 2 7
HS6A 3 11 (is there such a thing?)
Joe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418998#418998
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
Your numbers are inverted. One prop revolution on m14p is 360/.658 or 547
deg or 13.7 cyl and on the housai it is 360/.768 or 468 deg or 11.7 cyl.
Gill
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
Someone please check my math because this is what I calculate for the Housai
engine. One complete revolution covers 7 cylinders. ie: 360 degrees/9 = 40
degrees per cylinder. 360 degrees * .787 = 283 degrees/40 degrees = 7
cylinders per 2 blades (360 degrees). Therefore 1 blade covers 3.5
cylinders. 2 blades = 7 cylinders and 3 blades = 9.5 cylinders. Thus to
cycle through all cylinders completely for a Housai engine is 3 blades
For the M14, using the same analogy, 360 * .658 = 237 degrees/40 = 5.9
cylinders per 2 blades. Therefore 1 blade covers 2.9 cylinders. Therefore
to cycle all cylinders completely on an M14, would require 4 blades, not 3
because 3 blades is not quite 9 cylinders.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 2/19/2014 9:47 AM, Joe Enzminger wrote:
<mailto:panchoandlefty2002@yahoo.com> <panchoandlefty2002@yahoo.com>
"The actual minimum CRANKSHAFT rotation necessary to cycle all cylinders is
4.5 for all 9 cyl. radials. That is 9 blades for a direct drive engine.
Minimum for the M14P is 6 blades ( 4.5 X 0.658 X 2) and for the Huosai 7
blades (4.5 X 0.787 X 2). "
Walt,
Thanks for that! I've always suspected I didn't quite have that right.
So the chart would be:
Engine Prop Blades
M14 2 6
M14 3 9
HS6A 2 7
HS6A 3 11 (is there such a thing?)
Joe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418998#418998
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
Hi Walt,
Yep, you're 100% correct, as usual. Thanks for keep me in line.
Best regards,
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 2/19/2014 11:14 AM, Walter Lannon wrote:
> Hi Dennis;
> All that math gives me a headache before lunch! I think you may have
> forgotten that one cycle requires 720 degs. of crank rotation rather
> than 360.
> Cheers;
> Walt
> *From:* A. Dennis Savarese <mailto:dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2014 8:27 AM
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
> Someone please check my math because this is what I calculate for the
> Housai engine. One complete revolution covers 7 cylinders. ie: 360
> degrees/9= 40 degrees per cylinder. 360 degrees * .787 = 283
> degrees/40 degrees = 7 cylinders per 2 blades (360 degrees). Therefore
> 1 blade covers 3.5 cylinders. 2 blades = 7 cylinders and 3 blades =
> 9.5 cylinders. Thus to cycle through all cylinders completely for a
> Housai engine is 3 blades
>
> For the M14, using the same analogy, 360 * .658 = 237 degrees/40 = 5.9
> cylinders per 2 blades. Therefore 1 blade covers 2.9 cylinders.
> Therefore to cycle all cylinders completely on an M14, would require 4
> blades, not 3 because 3 blades is not quite 9 cylinders.
>
> Dennis
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-285-6263
> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
> www.yak-52.com
> Skype - Yakguy1
> On 2/19/2014 9:47 AM, Joe Enzminger wrote:
>>
>> "The actual minimum CRANKSHAFT rotation necessary to cycle all cylinders is
>> 4.5 for all 9 cyl. radials. That is 9 blades for a direct drive engine.
>> Minimum for the M14P is 6 blades ( 4.5 X 0.658 X 2) and for the Huosai 7
>> blades (4.5 X 0.787 X 2). "
>>
>> Walt,
>>
>> Thanks for that! I've always suspected I didn't quite have that right.
>>
>> So the chart would be:
>>
>> Engine Prop Blades
>> M14 2 6
>> M14 3 9
>> HS6A 2 7
>> HS6A 3 11 (is there such a thing?)
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418998#418998
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
1 crankshaft rotation = 360 deg.
1 thermodynamic cycle (4-stroke) = 720 deg of crankshaft rotation.
M14P prop reduction = 0.658 (prop turns less than crankshaft).
720 / 0.658 = 1094 deg of prop rotation to complete 1 thermodynamic 4-stroke cycle.
1094 / 180 deg = 6.1 blades (turning one blade of a 2-bladed prop = 180 deg of
prop rotation).
Notes:
a) substitute 0.xxx for 0.658 if your prop reduction is different.
b) for a 3-bladed prop, substitute 120 deg for 180 deg.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419017#419017
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
This backwards - 720 degrees prop rotation equals 1094 degrees engine
rotation
Gill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LawnDart
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 2:12 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
1 crankshaft rotation = 360 deg.
1 thermodynamic cycle (4-stroke) = 720 deg of crankshaft rotation.
M14P prop reduction = 0.658 (prop turns less than crankshaft).
720 / 0.658 = 1094 deg of prop rotation to complete 1 thermodynamic 4-stroke
cycle.
1094 / 180 deg = 6.1 blades (turning one blade of a 2-bladed prop = 180 deg
of prop rotation).
Notes:
a) substitute 0.xxx for 0.658 if your prop reduction is different.
b) for a 3-bladed prop, substitute 120 deg for 180 deg.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419017#419017
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
Ok. So how many blades for 2 blade & 3 blade to get all 9 cyl for those of u
s that are math challenged?
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd@fastaircraft.com
www.fastaircraft.com
> On Feb 19, 2014, at 1:20 PM, "Gill Gutierrez" <gill.g@gpimail.com> wrote:
>
>
> This backwards - 720 degrees prop rotation equals 1094 degrees engine
> rotation
>
> Gill
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LawnDart
> Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 2:12 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
>
>
> 1 crankshaft rotation = 360 deg.
> 1 thermodynamic cycle (4-stroke) = 720 deg of crankshaft rotation.
>
> M14P prop reduction = 0.658 (prop turns less than crankshaft).
> 720 / 0.658 = 1094 deg of prop rotation to complete 1 thermodynamic 4-st
roke
> cycle.
> 1094 / 180 deg = 6.1 blades (turning one blade of a 2-bladed prop = 18
0 deg
> of prop rotation).
>
> Notes:
> a) substitute 0.xxx for 0.658 if your prop reduction is different.
> b) for a 3-bladed prop, substitute 120 deg for 180 deg.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419017#419017
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
[quote="gill.g(at)gpimail.com"]This backwards - 720 degrees prop rotation equals
1094 degrees engine
rotation
Gill
--[/quote]
Gill is correct.
Corrected math -
1 crankshaft rotation = 360 deg.
1 thermodynamic cycle (4-stroke) = 720 deg of crankshaft rotation.
M14P prop reduction = 0.658 (prop turns less than crankshaft).
720 * 0.658 = 474 deg of prop rotation to complete 1 thermodynamic 4-stroke cycle.
474 / 180 deg = 2.6 blades (turning one blade of a 2-bladed prop = 180 deg of prop
rotation).
Notes:
a) substitute 0.xxx for 0.658 if your prop reduction is different.
b) for a 3-bladed prop, substitute 120 deg for 180 deg.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419020#419020
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
Walt,
The difference in not pulling the engine in after prime, or pulling it through
manually after prime, can have a dramatic difference on how fast the engine starts,
and whether or not you run out of air before it starts and are left with
the only solution BEING hand propping.
This gets even worse in very cold whether when oil viscosity is at a minimum.
So it is a trade-off really. The last time the engine shut down, the mag switch
and wires were "tested good". That said, it is true that a wire can break at
any time. So the answer is that we should always treat these props as dangerous.........
primed or not.
I watched a good friend get hit by a prop that he was pulling through, with a disconnected
mag wire. It had not been primed. It picked him up and threw him
for about 10 feet. Engine actually started! So yes, someone has ALREADY lost.
He survived, and did not lose anything except some flesh. The prop blade
had to be sent in for repair.
If safety is the ultimate answer, stop pulling the prop through at all. Open the
cowl, remove the plugs, open the intake drain caps, and let it go for a while.
But no one really wants that hassle, so we have intake drain kits, and mathematics
about how many blades should be pulled.
I think procedures are important, but ATTITUDE is the MOST important. I prime
and pull my engine through on EVERY start. I also am damn careful.
Just sayin.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
Thanks Joe;
I keep forgetting about the 3 blade prop. - never had one.
Of course these are minimum requirements. Out of long habit from R1340 days I
usually pull 9 blades but as you suggested once you have done a CLEAN full cycle
you are ready to go.
Any more is great exercise!
The one fairly common procedure I strongly dis-agree with is pulling the
prop through after priming the engine. Sure, it may show that your intake
drains are open, etc. but, as I have posted many times before, ANY type of failure
of a mag. switch or the "P" lead is a LIVE magneto. It's a game of Russian
Roulette and eventually someone will lose.
Walt.
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Enzminger
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 7:47 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
<panchoandlefty2002@yahoo.com>
"The actual minimum CRANKSHAFT rotation necessary to cycle all cylinders is
4.5 for all 9 cyl. radials. That is 9 blades for a direct drive engine.
Minimum for the M14P is 6 blades ( 4.5 X 0.658 X 2) and for the Huosai 7 blades
(4.5 X 0.787 X 2). "
Walt,
Thanks for that! I've always suspected I didn't quite have that right.
So the chart would be:
Engine Prop Blades
M14 2 6
M14 3 9
HS6A 2 7
HS6A 3 11 (is there such a thing?)
Joe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418998#418998
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
Two blade prop =93 assuming you pull the blade 180 degrees
=93 so you do 4 blades to give you 1094 degrees of engine rotation
which is greater than the 720 required for a full cycle. Three blades
assuming 120 degrees per blade would require six blades for the same
engine rotation of 1094 degrees. The deferent gearing in the Housai
means that you get less engine rotation but on a two blade prop, 4
blades would also exceed the 720 cycle rotation on the engine,
Gill
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd McCutchan
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
Ok. So how many blades for 2 blade & 3 blade to get all 9 cyl for those
of us that are math challenged?
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd@fastaircraft.com
www.fastaircraft.com
On Feb 19, 2014, at 1:20 PM, "Gill Gutierrez" <gill.g@gpimail.com>
wrote:
This backwards - 720 degrees prop rotation equals 1094 degrees engine
rotation
Gill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LawnDart
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 2:12 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
1 crankshaft rotation = 360 deg.
1 thermodynamic cycle (4-stroke) = 720 deg of crankshaft rotation.
M14P prop reduction = 0.658 (prop turns less than crankshaft).
720 / 0.658 = 1094 deg of prop rotation to complete 1 thermodynamic
4-stroke
cycle.
1094 / 180 deg = 6.1 blades (turning one blade of a 2-bladed prop =
180 deg
of prop rotation).
Notes:
a) substitute 0.xxx for 0.658 if your prop reduction is different.
b) for a 3-bladed prop, substitute 120 deg for 180 deg.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419017#419017
http://www.matr====================
=======bsp; <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List>
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
-ttp://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
All of this math is causing a major helmet fire! Reminds me of an
instructor I had in Schools Command in the Navy who had a useful equation
for the young Student Naval Aviators and Student Naval Flight Officers
before they went out on liberty in Pensacola. It went like this:
B4I4Q RU/18?
First person to solve the equation may be eligible to win a free trip across
the Shit River in Olongapo, R.P.
Mark Davis
N44YK
P.S. I pull twelve blades on my M-14P to hopefully have cleared the
cylinders twice.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gill Gutierrez" <gill.g@gpimail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 2:20 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
>
> This backwards - 720 degrees prop rotation equals 1094 degrees engine
> rotation
>
> Gill
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LawnDart
> Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 2:12 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
>
>
> 1 crankshaft rotation = 360 deg.
> 1 thermodynamic cycle (4-stroke) = 720 deg of crankshaft rotation.
>
> M14P prop reduction = 0.658 (prop turns less than crankshaft).
> 720 / 0.658 = 1094 deg of prop rotation to complete 1 thermodynamic
> 4-stroke
> cycle.
> 1094 / 180 deg = 6.1 blades (turning one blade of a 2-bladed prop = 180
> deg
> of prop rotation).
>
> Notes:
> a) substitute 0.xxx for 0.658 if your prop reduction is different.
> b) for a 3-bladed prop, substitute 120 deg for 180 deg.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419017#419017
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
Simple... no real math just finger counting... pull at least 9, but a few m
ore doesn't hurt anything.
Jon Blake
jblake207@comcast.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd McCutchan" <todd@fastaircraft.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 3:47:51 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
Ok. So how many blades for 2 blade & 3 blade to get all 9 cyl for those of
us that are math challenged?
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd@fastaircraft.com
www.fastaircraft.com
On Feb 19, 2014, at 1:20 PM, "Gill Gutierrez" < gill.g@gpimail.com > wrote:
This backwards - 720 degrees prop rotation equals 1094 degrees engine
rotation
Gill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[ mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of LawnDart
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 2:12 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
1 crankshaft rotation = 360 deg.
1 thermodynamic cycle (4-stroke) = 720 deg of crankshaft rotation.
M14P prop reduction = 0.658 (prop turns less than crankshaft).
720 / 0.658 = 1094 deg of prop rotation to complete 1 thermodynamic 4-str
oke
cycle.
1094 / 180 deg = 6.1 blades (turning one blade of a 2-bladed prop = 180
deg
of prop rotation).
Notes:
a) substitute 0.xxx for 0.658 if your prop reduction is different.
b) for a 3-bladed prop, substitute 120 deg for 180 deg.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419017#419017
http://www.matr====================
=======bsp;=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2--
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -ttp://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.c
om
=;=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-- Lis
t Conbsp;=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2--Matt Dralle, L
ist Ads.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
Hey Mark, Was she?=C2- Over 18 that is...
Jon Blake
jblake207@comcast.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Davis" <markdavis@wbsnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:29:35 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
All of this math is causing a major helmet fire! =C2-Reminds me of an
instructor I had in Schools Command in the Navy who had a useful equation
for the young Student Naval Aviators and Student Naval Flight Officers
before they went out on liberty in Pensacola. =C2-It went like this:
B4I4Q RU/18?
First person to solve the equation may be eligible to win a free trip acros
s
the Shit River in Olongapo, R.P.
Mark Davis
N44YK
P.S. I pull twelve blades on my M-14P to hopefully have cleared the
cylinders twice.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gill Gutierrez" <gill.g@gpimail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 2:20 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
>
> This backwards - 720 degrees prop rotation equals 1094 degrees engine
> rotation
>
> Gill
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LawnDart
> Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 2:12 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
>
>
> 1 crankshaft rotation = 360 deg.
> 1 thermodynamic cycle (4-stroke) = 720 deg of crankshaft rotation.
>
> M14P prop reduction = 0.658 (prop turns less than crankshaft).
> 720 / 0.658 = 1094 deg of prop rotation to complete 1 thermodynamic
> 4-stroke
> cycle.
> 1094 / 180 deg = 6.1 blades (turning one blade of a 2-bladed prop = 1
80
> deg
> of prop rotation).
>
> Notes:
> a) substitute 0.xxx for 0.658 if your prop reduction is different.
> b) for a 3-bladed prop, substitute 120 deg for 180 deg.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419017#419017
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
MS -
===========
e -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
Jon,
I got multiple all expense paid trips to Subic Bay on Carl Vinson
to have the opportunity to cross the Shit River into the paradise known
as Olongapo......
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: jblake207@comcast.net
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
Hey Mark, Was she? Over 18 that is...
Jon Blake
jblake207@comcast.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: "Mark Davis" <markdavis@wbsnet.org>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:29:35 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
All of this math is causing a major helmet fire! Reminds me of an
instructor I had in Schools Command in the Navy who had a useful
equation
for the young Student Naval Aviators and Student Naval Flight Officers
before they went out on liberty in Pensacola. It went like this:
B4I4Q RU/18?
First person to solve the equation may be eligible to win a free trip
across
the Shit River in Olongapo, R.P.
Mark Davis
N44YK
P.S. I pull twelve blades on my M-14P to hopefully have cleared the
cylinders twice.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gill Gutierrez" <gill.g@gpimail.com>
To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 2:20 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
<gill.g@gpimail.com>
>
> This backwards - 720 degrees prop rotation equals 1094 degrees
engine
> rotation
>
> Gill
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LawnDart
> Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 2:12 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
>
>
> 1 crankshaft rotation = 360 deg.
> 1 thermodynamic cycle (4-stroke) = 720 deg of crankshaft rotation.
>
> M14P prop reduction = 0.658 (prop turns less than crankshaft).
> 720 / 0.658 = 1094 deg of prop rotation to complete 1
thermodynamic
> 4-stroke
> cycle.
> 1094 / 180 deg = 6.1 blades (turning one blade of a 2-bladed prop
= 180
> deg
> of prop rotation).
>
> Notes:
> a) substitute 0.xxx for 0.658 if your prop reduction is different.
> b) for a 3-bladed prop, substitute 120 deg for 180 deg.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419017#419017
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
=======================
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
So where does MMO come into to this?
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 2/19/2014 7:05:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
markdavis@wbsnet.org writes:
Jon,
I got multiple all expense paid trips to Subic Bay on Carl Vinson to
have the opportunity to cross the Shit River into the paradise known as
Olongapo......
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: _jblake207@comcast.net_ (mailto:jblake207@comcast.net)
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
Hey Mark, Was she? Over 18 that is...
Jon Blake
_jblake207@comcast.net_ (mailto:jblake207@comcast.net)
____________________________________
From: "Mark Davis" <_markdavis@wbsnet.org_ (mailto:markdavis@wbsnet.org) >
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:29:35 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Davis" <_markdavis@wbsnet.org_
(mailto:markdavis@wbsnet.org) >
All of this math is causing a major helmet fire! Reminds me of an
instructor I had in Schools Command in the Navy who had a useful equation
for the young Student Naval Aviators and Student Naval Flight Officers
before they went out on liberty in Pensacola. It went like this:
B4I4Q RU/18?
First person to solve the equation may be eligible to win a free trip
across
the Shit River in Olongapo, R.P.
Mark Davis
N44YK
P.S. I pull twelve blades on my M-14P to hopefully have cleared the
cylinders twice.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gill Gutierrez" <gill.g@gpimail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 2:20 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
>
> This backwards - 720 degrees prop rotation equals 1094 degrees engine
> rotation
>
> Gill
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LawnDart
> Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 2:12 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: propeller pull through procedure
>
>
> 1 crankshaft rotation = 360 deg.
> 1 thermodynamic cycle (4-stroke) = 720 deg of crankshaft rotation.
>
> M14P prop reduction = 0.658 (prop turns less than crankshaft).
> 720 / 0.658 = 1094 deg of prop rotation to complete 1 thermodynamic
> 4-stroke
> cycle.
> 1094 / 180 deg = 6.1 blades (turning one blade of a 2-bladed prop = 180
> deg
> of prop rotation).
>
> Notes:
> a) substitute 0.xxx for 0.658 if your prop reduction is different.
> b) for a 3-bladed prop, substitute 120 deg for 180 deg.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419017#419017
>
>
=======================
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: propeller pull through procedure |
So I get 9.12 blades for complete rotation (1094/120) which means 10 blades t
o clear all yes?
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd@fastaircraft.com
www.fastaircraft.com
> On Feb 19, 2014, at 2:12 PM, "LawnDart" <propwash@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> 1 crankshaft rotation = 360 deg.
> 1 thermodynamic cycle (4-stroke) = 720 deg of crankshaft rotation.
>
> M14P prop reduction = 0.658 (prop turns less than crankshaft).
> 720 / 0.658 = 1094 deg of prop rotation to complete 1 thermodynamic 4-st
roke cycle.
> 1094 / 180 deg = 6.1 blades (turning one blade of a 2-bladed prop = 18
0 deg of prop rotation).
>
> Notes:
> a) substitute 0.xxx for 0.658 if your prop reduction is different.
> b) for a 3-bladed prop, substitute 120 deg for 180 deg.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419017#419017
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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