Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:33 AM - Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
2. 09:59 AM - Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201 (Michael B. Cavanagh)
3. 10:13 AM - Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201 (doug sapp)
4. 10:43 AM - Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201 (Rico Jaeger)
5. 11:04 AM - Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201 (jblake207@comcast.net)
6. 11:10 AM - Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201 (Jan Mevis)
7. 11:26 AM - Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201 (keithmckinley)
8. 11:48 AM - Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201 (DaBear)
9. 12:31 PM - Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201 (Mark Davis)
10. 12:59 PM - Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201 (Jon Blake)
11. 01:06 PM - Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201 (Richard Hess)
12. 03:04 PM - Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
13. 03:25 PM - Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 2014 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
14. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
15. 04:36 PM - Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201 (Ernest Martinez)
16. 05:38 PM - Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
17. 07:01 PM - Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 20 (LawnDart)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 |
May 201
I think the point here is that having different shaped knobs can indeed help keep
you from grabbing the wrong lever and thinking you put the gear down when it
fact you did not. I don't personally believe that is an issue in the Yaks,
maybe for the 52? Possible I guess. That said, I don't have any stinking flaps
on the YAK-50, so it would not help me one little bit either Michael B. Cavanagh.
The point Keith made is perfectly apt, and that is that ANYONE in ANY make, model,
series, of aircraft (unless it is down and welded) can be the victim of landing
with the gear up, or not carefully noting that all THREE (or in my case
TWO) green lights are on, etc. There have been many cases where I have been
on short final and have said to myself: "Did I check the gear or not?" I don't
hesitate, I look at them AGAIN. After it has happened to YOU, either some very
close call, or actually scraping and skidding down the runway, you tend to
become paranoid about it, which is probably a good thing.
Point is, the shape of the knob has no bearing on just simply forgetting to lower
the dang gear, which is what Keith was alluding to and did not, in my opinion
justify your publically written denigrating response, but then I have been
guilty of that as well, so I have no room to talk.
By the way, Keith *IS* one of the smart people.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK N66PW
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael B. Cavanagh
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18
May 201
--> <mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com>
Nobody said it would. But some pretty smart people seem to think it helps. You're
right, probably would not help you one bit.
On May 22, 2014, at 3:40 PM, keithmckinley <cetopfed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Wheel "shmeel", ball, knob whatever. Not gonna save your ass, even close. Hell,
I flew a plane that had a button for gear up and one for gear down. Look, it
can happen to anyone, I'm sorry it happened to this guy and I'm sorry it happened
to that guy (on video) who had an absolute cherry CJ with and M-14 and big
prop....but hey, at least he got the flaps down.....
>
> I can say without a doubt I have whipped into the break (CJ and Miltary) and
did a tight 180 to land and after landing thought I'm not sure if I ever checked
the gear. Maybe I did subconsciously, maybe not. In any case, thank God for
muscle memory and First Officers.......
>
> --------
> Keith McKinley
> 700HS
> X26 Sebastian, FL
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423610#423610
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 |
May 201
The point to this website is to share information, not debate and degrade others
trying to share good ideas. I agree with you that the shape of the gear handle
is no help when you've forgotten there is a handle at all. Staying current
and proficient is your best defense. I never said knobs were a cure. Losing
SA, and that is what forgetting the gear is about, is helped by being in front
of the airplane and not being overly distracted when out of the ordinary things
happen. No one is immune to forgetting the gear, and there is no one solution
for preventing it. Read my paragraph again. That said, I'm dropping this
website and you won't hear from me again, Mr. Mark G. Bitterlich. AMF
On May 23, 2014, at 9:33 AM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
wrote:
>
> I think the point here is that having different shaped knobs can indeed help
keep you from grabbing the wrong lever and thinking you put the gear down when
it fact you did not. I don't personally believe that is an issue in the Yaks,
maybe for the 52? Possible I guess. That said, I don't have any stinking
flaps on the YAK-50, so it would not help me one little bit either Michael B.
Cavanagh.
>
> The point Keith made is perfectly apt, and that is that ANYONE in ANY make, model,
series, of aircraft (unless it is down and welded) can be the victim of
landing with the gear up, or not carefully noting that all THREE (or in my case
TWO) green lights are on, etc. There have been many cases where I have been
on short final and have said to myself: "Did I check the gear or not?" I don't
hesitate, I look at them AGAIN. After it has happened to YOU, either some
very close call, or actually scraping and skidding down the runway, you tend
to become paranoid about it, which is probably a good thing.
>
> Point is, the shape of the knob has no bearing on just simply forgetting to lower
the dang gear, which is what Keith was alluding to and did not, in my opinion
justify your publically written denigrating response, but then I have been
guilty of that as well, so I have no room to talk.
>
> By the way, Keith *IS* one of the smart people.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK N66PW
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael B. Cavanagh
> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:15 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18
May 201
>
> --> <mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com>
>
> Nobody said it would. But some pretty smart people seem to think it helps.
You're right, probably would not help you one bit.
> On May 22, 2014, at 3:40 PM, keithmckinley <cetopfed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Wheel "shmeel", ball, knob whatever. Not gonna save your ass, even close. Hell,
I flew a plane that had a button for gear up and one for gear down. Look,
it can happen to anyone, I'm sorry it happened to this guy and I'm sorry it happened
to that guy (on video) who had an absolute cherry CJ with and M-14 and
big prop....but hey, at least he got the flaps down.....
>>
>> I can say without a doubt I have whipped into the break (CJ and Miltary) and
did a tight 180 to land and after landing thought I'm not sure if I ever checked
the gear. Maybe I did subconsciously, maybe not. In any case, thank God for
muscle memory and First Officers.......
>>
>> --------
>> Keith McKinley
>> 700HS
>> X26 Sebastian, FL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423610#423610
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 |
May 201
Why, gentlemen do we, more times than not end up pissing off the original
poster who I am sure only had the best intentions? If we keep this up the
list will be populated only by those who do not believe the the axiom "if
you can't say something nice don't say anything at all". After all is said
and done, what have you accomplished?
Doug Sapp
On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Michael B. Cavanagh <
mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com> wrote:
> mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com>
>
> The point to this website is to share information, not debate and degrade
> others trying to share good ideas. I agree with you that the shape of the
> gear handle is no help when you've forgotten there is a handle at all.
> Staying current and proficient is your best defense. I never said knobs
> were a cure. Losing SA, and that is what forgetting the gear is about, is
> helped by being in front of the airplane and not being overly distracted
> when out of the ordinary things happen. No one is immune to forgetting the
> gear, and there is no one solution for preventing it. Read my paragraph
> again. That said, I'm dropping this website and you won't hear from me
> again, Mr. Mark G. Bitterlich. AMF
> On May 23, 2014, at 9:33 AM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <
> mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
>
> mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >
> > I think the point here is that having different shaped knobs can indeed
> help keep you from grabbing the wrong lever and thinking you put the gear
> down when it fact you did not. I don't personally believe that is an
> issue in the Yaks, maybe for the 52? Possible I guess. That said, I don't
> have any stinking flaps on the YAK-50, so it would not help me one little
> bit either Michael B. Cavanagh.
> >
> > The point Keith made is perfectly apt, and that is that ANYONE in ANY
> make, model, series, of aircraft (unless it is down and welded) can be the
> victim of landing with the gear up, or not carefully noting that all THREE
> (or in my case TWO) green lights are on, etc. There have been many cases
> where I have been on short final and have said to myself: "Did I check the
> gear or not?" I don't hesitate, I look at them AGAIN. After it has
> happened to YOU, either some very close call, or actually scraping and
> skidding down the runway, you tend to become paranoid about it, which is
> probably a good thing.
> >
> > Point is, the shape of the knob has no bearing on just simply forgetting
> to lower the dang gear, which is what Keith was alluding to and did not, in
> my opinion justify your publically written denigrating response, but then I
> have been guilty of that as well, so I have no room to talk.
> >
> > By the way, Keith *IS* one of the smart people.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> > N50YK N66PW
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael B. Cavanagh
> > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:15 PM
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium
> ... 18 May 201
> >
> > --> <mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Nobody said it would. But some pretty smart people seem to think it
> helps. You're right, probably would not help you one bit.
> > On May 22, 2014, at 3:40 PM, keithmckinley <cetopfed@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Wheel "shmeel", ball, knob whatever. Not gonna save your ass, even
> close. Hell, I flew a plane that had a button for gear up and one for gear
> down. Look, it can happen to anyone, I'm sorry it happened to this guy and
> I'm sorry it happened to that guy (on video) who had an absolute cherry CJ
> with and M-14 and big prop....but hey, at least he got the flaps down.....
> >>
> >> I can say without a doubt I have whipped into the break (CJ and
> Miltary) and did a tight 180 to land and after landing thought I'm not sure
> if I ever checked the gear. Maybe I did subconsciously, maybe not. In any
> case, thank God for muscle memory and First Officers.......
> >>
> >> --------
> >> Keith McKinley
> >> 700HS
> >> X26 Sebastian, FL
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Read this topic online here:
> >>
> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423610#423610
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 |
May 201
Hear=2C Hear=2C Doug. There is no better teacher than one whom has the expe
rience first hand - and no better student than one truly seeking an answer.
As an excited owner / pilot of an (almost-fully functional) Yak-52=2C I ha
ve been conditioned to think twice regarding "putting it out there" when I
have questions that I know could be easily answered by those whom have "bee
n there." Now=2C my scruffy-but-still-beautiful Russian bird has zero tan l
ines because my inquiries regarding my grounding issues are either ignored
(not in w/ the "good ol' boys") or the info I include is examined 10% and t
he "Did you turn it ON?" reply is received. This forum could be so much mor
e than the (sad to say) bragging rights and attitude-laden=2C opinionated o
ne-ups typically dispatched. We all had to learn somewhere. Instead of roll
ing your eyes and ruining someone's day - why not share the wealth - even o
n the obvious questions? The feeling of being helpful may actually trump th
e feeling of superior exclusion. You catch a lot more flies w/ honey...and
this IS FLY IN SEASON! (sorry)
Submitted respectfully...
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau=2C WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1966 Cessna 150F ^/---//-X
N8558G //
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ...
18 May 201
From: dougsappllc@gmail.com
Why=2C gentlemen do we=2C more times than not end up pissing off the origin
al poster who I am sure only had the best intentions? If we keep this up t
he list will be populated only by those who do not believe the the axiom "i
f you can't say something nice don't say anything at all". After all is sa
id and done=2C what have you accomplished?=0A
Doug Sapp
On Fri=2C May 23=2C 2014 at 9:59 AM=2C Michael B. Cavanagh <mikecavanagh1@h
otmail.com> wrote:
=0A
l.com>
=0A
=0A
=0A
The point to this website is to share information=2C not debate and degrade
others trying to share good ideas. I agree with you that the shape of th
e gear handle is no help when you've forgotten there is a handle at all. S
taying current and proficient is your best defense. I never said knobs wer
e a cure. Losing SA=2C and that is what forgetting the gear is about=2C is
helped by being in front of the airplane and not being overly distracted w
hen out of the ordinary things happen. No one is immune to forgetting the
gear=2C and there is no one solution for preventing it. Read my paragraph
again. That said=2C I'm dropping this website and you won't hear from me ag
ain=2C Mr. Mark G. Bitterlich. AMF
=0A
=0A
On May 23=2C 2014=2C at 9:33 AM=2C "Bitterlich=2C Mark G CIV NAVAIR=2C WD"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
=0A
=0A
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
=0A
>
=0A
> I think the point here is that having different shaped knobs can indeed h
elp keep you from grabbing the wrong lever and thinking you put the gear do
wn when it fact you did not. I don't personally believe that is an issue
in the Yaks=2C maybe for the 52? Possible I guess. That said=2C I don't h
ave any stinking flaps on the YAK-50=2C so it would not help me one little
bit either Michael B. Cavanagh.
=0A
=0A
>
=0A
> The point Keith made is perfectly apt=2C and that is that ANYONE in ANY m
ake=2C model=2C series=2C of aircraft (unless it is down and welded) can be
the victim of landing with the gear up=2C or not carefully noting that all
THREE (or in my case TWO) green lights are on=2C etc. There have been ma
ny cases where I have been on short final and have said to myself: "Did I c
heck the gear or not?" I don't hesitate=2C I look at them AGAIN. After it
has happened to YOU=2C either some very close call=2C or actually scraping
and skidding down the runway=2C you tend to become paranoid about it=2C wh
ich is probably a good thing.
=0A
=0A
>
=0A
> Point is=2C the shape of the knob has no bearing on just simply forgettin
g to lower the dang gear=2C which is what Keith was alluding to and did not
=2C in my opinion justify your publically written denigrating response=2C b
ut then I have been guilty of that as well=2C so I have no room to talk.
=0A
=0A
>
=0A
> By the way=2C Keith *IS* one of the smart people.
=0A
>
=0A
> Mark Bitterlich
=0A
> N50YK N66PW
=0A
>
=0A
> -----Original Message-----
=0A
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael B. Cavanagh
=0A
=0A
> Sent: Thursday=2C May 22=2C 2014 8:15 PM
=0A
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
=0A
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium .
.. 18 May 201
=0A
>
=0A
=0A
> --> <mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com>
=0A
>
=0A
> Nobody said it would. But some pretty smart people seem to think it help
s. You're right=2C probably would not help you one bit.
=0A
> On May 22=2C 2014=2C at 3:40 PM=2C keithmckinley <cetopfed@gmail.com> wro
te:
=0A
>
=0A
=0A
>>
=0A
>> Wheel "shmeel"=2C ball=2C knob whatever. Not gonna save your ass=2C even
close. Hell=2C I flew a plane that had a button for gear up and one for ge
ar down. Look=2C it can happen to anyone=2C I'm sorry it happened to this g
uy and I'm sorry it happened to that guy (on video) who had an absolute che
rry CJ with and M-14 and big prop....but hey=2C at least he got the flaps d
own.....
=0A
=0A
>>
=0A
>> I can say without a doubt I have whipped into the break (CJ and Miltary)
and did a tight 180 to land and after landing thought I'm not sure if I ev
er checked the gear. Maybe I did subconsciously=2C maybe not. In any case
=2C thank God for muscle memory and First Officers.......
=0A
=0A
>>
=0A
>> --------
=0A
>> Keith McKinley
=0A
>> 700HS
=0A
>> X26 Sebastian=2C FL
=0A
>>
=0A
>>
=0A
>>
=0A
>>
=0A
>> Read this topic online here:
=0A
>>
=0A
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423610#423610
=0A
>>
=0A
>>
=0A
>>
=0A
>>
=0A
>>
=0A
>>
=0A
>>
=0A
>>
=0A
>>
=0A
>>
=0A
>>
=0A
>
=0A
>
=0A
>
=0A
>
=0A
>
=0A
>
=0A
>
=0A
>
=0A
>
=0A
>
=0A
>
=0A
>
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
=0A
=0A
MS -
=0A
k">http://forums.matronics.com
=0A
=0A
e -
=0A
-Matt Dralle=2C List Admin.
=0A
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
============0A
============0A
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 |
May 201
Both Doug and Rico are correct.=C2- I left the list for the very same rea
son... a big mouth who thought he knew (knows) everything about... well eve
rything.=C2- The irony is that that person felt he was more of a veteran
than me and started berating me about a point having nothing to do with air
planes. In situations like this, the two best things to do is 1. Don
=99t respond and just let it go. or 2. Don=99t respond and if you mus
t, at least take it off-list. Exchange all the ugly emails you want between
each other, but keep in mind you may meet at an RPA or airshow gathering s
omeday.
=C2-
I=99m glad I returned to the list as this is a great forum for sharin
g good information about our unique airplanes. I, for one, say thanks to al
l those who post tidbits of info about new gadgets or new discoveries that
may be relevant to many or maybe even just one or two.=C2- Keep 'em comin
g.
=C2-
Saber
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rico Jaeger" <rocknpilot@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 12:42:34 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ...
=C2-18 =C2-May 201
Hear, Hear, Doug. There is no better teacher than one whom has the experien
ce first hand - and no better student than one truly seeking an answer. As
an excited owner / pilot of an (almost-fully functional) Yak-52, I have bee
n conditioned to think twice regarding "putting it out there" when I have q
uestions that I know could be easily answered by those whom have "been ther
e." Now, my scruffy-but-still-beautiful Russian bird has zero tan lines bec
ause my inquiries regarding my grounding issues are either ignored (not in
w/ the "good ol' boys") or the info I include is examined 10% and the "Did
you turn it ON?" reply is received. This forum could be so much more than t
he (sad to say) bragging rights and attitude-laden, opinionated one-ups typ
ically dispatched. We all had to learn somewhere. Instead of rolling your e
yes and ruining someone's day - why not share the wealth - even on the obvi
ous questions? The feeling of being helpful may actually trump the feeling
of superior exclusion. You catch a lot more flies w/ honey...and this IS FL
Y IN SEASON! (sorry)
Submitted respectfully...
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave. =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2-
Wausau, WI. 54401 =C2- =C2-=C2-
715.529.7426 =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2
- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2
- =C2- //
1966 Cessna 150F=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- ^/---//-X
N8558G =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2
- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-//
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2
- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2- =C2- =C2- //=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-^/---//-X
N21YK =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-//
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ...
18 May 201
From: dougsappllc@gmail.com
Why, gentlemen do we, more times than not end up pissing off the original p
oster who I am sure only had the best intentions? =C2-If we keep this up
the list will be populated only by those who do not believe the the axiom "
if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all". =C2-After all
is said and done, what have you accomplished?
Doug Sapp
On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Michael B. Cavanagh < mikecavanagh1@hotmai
l.com > wrote:
il.com >
The point to this website is to share information, not debate and degrade o
thers trying to share good ideas. =C2- I agree with you that the shape of
the gear handle is no help when you've forgotten there is a handle at all.
=C2-Staying current and proficient is your best defense. =C2-I never s
aid knobs were a cure. =C2-Losing SA, and that is what forgetting the gea
r is about, is helped by being in front of the airplane and not being overl
y distracted when out of the ordinary things happen. =C2-No one is immune
to forgetting the gear, and there is no one solution for preventing it.
=C2-Read my paragraph again. That said, I'm dropping this website and you
won't hear from me again, =C2-Mr. Mark G. Bitterlich. =C2-AMF
On May 23, 2014, at 9:33 AM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" < mark.bit
terlich@navy.mil > wrote:
k.bitterlich@navy.mil >
>
> I think the point here is that having different shaped knobs can indeed h
elp keep you from grabbing the wrong lever and thinking you put the gear do
wn when it fact you did not. =C2- I don't personally believe that is an i
ssue in the Yaks, maybe for the 52? =C2-Possible I guess. =C2-That said
, I don't have any stinking flaps on the YAK-50, so it would not help me on
e little bit either Michael B. Cavanagh.
>
> The point Keith made is perfectly apt, and that is that ANYONE in ANY mak
e, model, series, of aircraft (unless it is down and welded) can be the vic
tim of landing with the gear up, or not carefully noting that all THREE (or
in my case TWO) green lights are on, etc. =C2- There have been many case
s where I have been on short final and have said to myself: "Did I check th
e gear or not?" =C2-I don't hesitate, I look at them AGAIN. =C2-After i
t has happened to YOU, either some very close call, or actually scraping an
d skidding down the runway, you tend to become paranoid about it, which is
probably a good thing.
>
> Point is, the shape of the knob has no bearing on just simply forgetting
to lower the dang gear, which is what Keith was alluding to and did not, in
my opinion justify your publically written denigrating response, but then
I have been guilty of that as well, so I have no room to talk.
>
> By the way, Keith *IS* one of the smart people.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK =C2-N66PW
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-yak-list-server@
matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Michael B. Cavanagh
> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:15 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium .
.. 18 May 201
>
> --> < mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com >
>
> Nobody said it would. =C2-But some pretty smart people seem to think it
helps. =C2-You're right, probably would not help you one bit.
> On May 22, 2014, at 3:40 PM, keithmckinley < cetopfed@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>>
>> Wheel "shmeel", ball, knob whatever. Not gonna save your ass, even close
. Hell, I flew a plane that had a button for gear up and one for gear down.
Look, it can happen to anyone, I'm sorry it happened to this guy and I'm s
orry it happened to that guy (on video) who had an absolute cherry CJ with
and M-14 and big prop....but hey, at least he got the flaps down.....
>>
>> I can say without a doubt I have whipped into the break (CJ and Miltary)
and did a tight 180 to land and after landing thought I'm not sure if I ev
er checked the gear. Maybe I did subconsciously, maybe not. In any case, th
ank God for muscle memory and First Officers.......
>>
>> --------
>> Keith McKinley
>> 700HS
>> X26 Sebastian, FL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423610#423610
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
===========
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
e -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List =====
=====
http://forums.matronics.com ==========
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========
===
===
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| Subject: | Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 |
May 201
The original poster correlated a mortal accident with 11 victims (skydivers)
to a simple gear-up landing.
That is untolerable.
Jan
From: doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ...
18 May 201
Why, gentlemen do we, more times than not end up pissing off the original
poster who I am sure only had the best intentions? If we keep this up the
list will be populated only by those who do not believe the the axiom "if
you can't say something nice don't say anything at all". After all is said
and done, what have you accomplished?
Doug Sapp
On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Michael B. Cavanagh
<mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com> wrote:
> <mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com>
>
> The point to this website is to share information, not debate and degrade
> others trying to share good ideas. I agree with you that the shape of the
> gear handle is no help when you've forgotten there is a handle at all.
> Staying current and proficient is your best defense. I never said knobs were
> a cure. Losing SA, and that is what forgetting the gear is about, is helped
> by being in front of the airplane and not being overly distracted when out of
> the ordinary things happen. No one is immune to forgetting the gear, and
> there is no one solution for preventing it. Read my paragraph again. That
> said, I'm dropping this website and you won't hear from me again, Mr. Mark G.
> Bitterlich. AMF
> On May 23, 2014, at 9:33 AM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD"
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
>
>> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>> >
>> > I think the point here is that having different shaped knobs can indeed
>> help keep you from grabbing the wrong lever and thinking you put the gear
>> down when it fact you did not. I don't personally believe that is an issue
>> in the Yaks, maybe for the 52? Possible I guess. That said, I don't have
>> any stinking flaps on the YAK-50, so it would not help me one little bit
>> either Michael B. Cavanagh.
>> >
>> > The point Keith made is perfectly apt, and that is that ANYONE in ANY make,
>> model, series, of aircraft (unless it is down and welded) can be the victim
>> of landing with the gear up, or not carefully noting that all THREE (or in my
>> case TWO) green lights are on, etc. There have been many cases where I have
>> been on short final and have said to myself: "Did I check the gear or not?"
>> I don't hesitate, I look at them AGAIN. After it has happened to YOU, either
>> some very close call, or actually scraping and skidding down the runway, you
>> tend to become paranoid about it, which is probably a good thing.
>> >
>> > Point is, the shape of the knob has no bearing on just simply forgetting to
>> lower the dang gear, which is what Keith was alluding to and did not, in my
>> opinion justify your publically written denigrating response, but then I have
>> been guilty of that as well, so I have no room to talk.
>> >
>> > By the way, Keith *IS* one of the smart people.
>> >
>> > Mark Bitterlich
>> > N50YK N66PW
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael B. Cavanagh
>> > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:15 PM
>> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ...
>> 18 May 201
>> >
>> > --> <mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com>
>> >
>> > Nobody said it would. But some pretty smart people seem to think it helps.
>> You're right, probably would not help you one bit.
>> > On May 22, 2014, at 3:40 PM, keithmckinley <cetopfed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> Wheel "shmeel", ball, knob whatever. Not gonna save your ass, even close.
>>> Hell, I flew a plane that had a button for gear up and one for gear down.
>>> Look, it can happen to anyone, I'm sorry it happened to this guy and I'm
>>> sorry it happened to that guy (on video) who had an absolute cherry CJ with
>>> and M-14 and big prop....but hey, at least he got the flaps down.....
>>> >>
>>> >> I can say without a doubt I have whipped into the break (CJ and Miltary)
>>> and did a tight 180 to land and after landing thought I'm not sure if I ever
>>> checked the gear. Maybe I did subconsciously, maybe not. In any case, thank
>>> God for muscle memory and First Officers.......
>>> >>
>>> >> --------
>>> >> Keith McKinley
>>> >> 700HS
>>> >> X26 Sebastian, FL
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Read this topic online here:
>>> >>
>>> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423610#423610
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
> ==========
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May |
201
Damn, I didn't even know I was getting slammed....and I wasn't even trying to piss
anyone off!
For what its worth, without having a RALT. I set my GPS (which stares me in the
face) at 100 feet AGL. AT 100 feet I get a big red warning sign. That's my mechanical
safeguard.
Mike, if your the guy whose feelings got hurt. It's a post, you read it wrong.
There was no contempt or sarcasm intended.....
Where can we all meet for a group hug?
S/F
K
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
X26 Sebastian, FL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423660#423660
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 |
May 201
So I think there are multiple parts to this.
This *IS* a forum for debate. If we can=99t sit around and debate
points to find the best answer, this forum is useless. If we expect
someone to come with a question or comment and we should just all nod
our heads in agreement to the first answer, etc. Then what service are
we bringing? Debate is a good thing, personal attacks are NOT.
When someone posts a different opinion, they are NOT attacking someone,
questioning their man/woman-hood/parentage, etc. It=99s a
different opinion. We need to stop getting our underwear in a bunch
from some perceived slight because of how the text is read.
Example; some people get personally upset at curse words, others use
them like adjectives throughout their speech. Go to NYC and the F bomb
is used in saying good morning and how the )(*)& are you? Down south,
that would be frowned upon in a huge way.
The words are just bunches of letters and you should understanding the
meaning before getting upset. And in the case of the forum, they are
bunches of letters and bunches of words. People typically respond on
this forum quickly, without a lot of proof reading and without worry in
how their quickly worded response will be received. Take 80-95% of
what is on this forum as people trying to help. Otherwise, you might as
well get off the internet because it is this way across thousands of
forums.
As to this thread, 11 skydivers didn=99t die because of a gear up
landing. We=99ve discussed multiple options to prevent gear up
landings including experimental squat switches, horns, and modified
knobs. While all those are good ideas of things to help, they will NOT
prevent ALL gear up landings.
Sooo
Give each other a hug, say you are sorry and let the spirited debate
continue.
Or not
Bear
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium
... 18 May 201
Why, gentlemen do we, more times than not end up pissing off the
original poster who I am sure only had the best intentions? If we keep
this up the list will be populated only by those who do not believe the
the axiom "if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all".
After all is said and done, what have you accomplished?
Doug Sapp
On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Michael B. Cavanagh
<mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com <mailto:mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com> > wrote:
<mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com <mailto:mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com> >
The point to this website is to share information, not debate and
degrade others trying to share good ideas. I agree with you that the
shape of the gear handle is no help when you've forgotten there is a
handle at all. Staying current and proficient is your best defense. I
never said knobs were a cure. Losing SA, and that is what forgetting
the gear is about, is helped by being in front of the airplane and not
being overly distracted when out of the ordinary things happen. No one
is immune to forgetting the gear, and there is no one solution for
preventing it. Read my paragraph again. That said, I'm dropping this
website and you won't hear from me again, Mr. Mark G. Bitterlich. AMF
On May 23, 2014, at 9:33 AM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> > wrote:
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >
>
> I think the point here is that having different shaped knobs can
indeed help keep you from grabbing the wrong lever and thinking you put
the gear down when it fact you did not. I don't personally believe
that is an issue in the Yaks, maybe for the 52? Possible I guess. That
said, I don't have any stinking flaps on the YAK-50, so it would not
help me one little bit either Michael B. Cavanagh.
>
> The point Keith made is perfectly apt, and that is that ANYONE in ANY
make, model, series, of aircraft (unless it is down and welded) can be
the victim of landing with the gear up, or not carefully noting that all
THREE (or in my case TWO) green lights are on, etc. There have been
many cases where I have been on short final and have said to myself:
"Did I check the gear or not?" I don't hesitate, I look at them AGAIN.
After it has happened to YOU, either some very close call, or actually
scraping and skidding down the runway, you tend to become paranoid about
it, which is probably a good thing.
>
> Point is, the shape of the knob has no bearing on just simply
forgetting to lower the dang gear, which is what Keith was alluding to
and did not, in my opinion justify your publically written denigrating
response, but then I have been guilty of that as well, so I have no room
to talk.
>
> By the way, Keith *IS* one of the smart people.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK N66PW
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of Michael B.
Cavanagh
> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:15 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in
Belgium ... 18 May 201
>
> --> <mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com <mailto:mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com> >
>
> Nobody said it would. But some pretty smart people seem to think it
helps. You're right, probably would not help you one bit.
> On May 22, 2014, at 3:40 PM, keithmckinley <cetopfed@gmail.com
<mailto:cetopfed@gmail.com> > wrote:
>
<mailto:cetopfed@gmail.com> >
>>
>> Wheel "shmeel", ball, knob whatever. Not gonna save your ass, even
close. Hell, I flew a plane that had a button for gear up and one for
gear down. Look, it can happen to anyone, I'm sorry it happened to this
guy and I'm sorry it happened to that guy (on video) who had an absolute
cherry CJ with and M-14 and big prop....but hey, at least he got the
flaps down.....
>>
>> I can say without a doubt I have whipped into the break (CJ and
Miltary) and did a tight 180 to land and after landing thought I'm not
sure if I ever checked the gear. Maybe I did subconsciously, maybe not.
In any case, thank God for muscle memory and First Officers.......
>>
>> --------
>> Keith McKinley
>> 700HS
>> X26 Sebastian, FL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423610#423610
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
e -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 9
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|
| Subject: | Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 |
May 201
Can't we just drop the gear up discussion and get back with something
serious like the benefits of Marvel Mystery Oil and Nomex? : )
Everyone have a safe Memorial Day weekend. Please take the time to
remember the purpose of the holiday.
http://www.usmemorialday.org/?page_id=2
Fly safe, fly often and FLY NAVY!
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: DaBear
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 12:47 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in
Belgium ... 18 May 201
So I think there are multiple parts to this.
This *IS* a forum for debate. If we can=99t sit around and
debate points to find the best answer, this forum is useless. If we
expect someone to come with a question or comment and we should just all
nod our heads in agreement to the first answer, etc. Then what service
are we bringing? Debate is a good thing, personal attacks are NOT.
When someone posts a different opinion, they are NOT attacking
someone, questioning their man/woman-hood/parentage, etc. It=99s
a different opinion. We need to stop getting our underwear in a bunch
from some perceived slight because of how the text is read.
Example; some people get personally upset at curse words, others use
them like adjectives throughout their speech. Go to NYC and the F bomb
is used in saying good morning and how the )(*)& are you? Down south,
that would be frowned upon in a huge way.
The words are just bunches of letters and you should understanding the
meaning before getting upset. And in the case of the forum, they are
bunches of letters and bunches of words. People typically respond on
this forum quickly, without a lot of proof reading and without worry in
how their quickly worded response will be received. Take 80-95% of
what is on this forum as people trying to help. Otherwise, you might as
well get off the internet because it is this way across thousands of
forums.
As to this thread, 11 skydivers didn=99t die because of a gear
up landing. We=99ve discussed multiple options to prevent gear up
landings including experimental squat switches, horns, and modified
knobs. While all those are good ideas of things to help, they will NOT
prevent ALL gear up landings.
Sooo
Give each other a hug, say you are sorry and let the spirited debate
continue.
Or not
Bear
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 1:12 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in
Belgium ... 18 May 201
Why, gentlemen do we, more times than not end up pissing off the
original poster who I am sure only had the best intentions? If we keep
this up the list will be populated only by those who do not believe the
the axiom "if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all".
After all is said and done, what have you accomplished?
Doug Sapp
On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Michael B. Cavanagh
<mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com> wrote:
<mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com>
The point to this website is to share information, not debate and
degrade others trying to share good ideas. I agree with you that the
shape of the gear handle is no help when you've forgotten there is a
handle at all. Staying current and proficient is your best defense. I
never said knobs were a cure. Losing SA, and that is what forgetting
the gear is about, is helped by being in front of the airplane and not
being overly distracted when out of the ordinary things happen. No one
is immune to forgetting the gear, and there is no one solution for
preventing it. Read my paragraph again. That said, I'm dropping this
website and you won't hear from me again, Mr. Mark G. Bitterlich. AMF
On May 23, 2014, at 9:33 AM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> I think the point here is that having different shaped knobs can
indeed help keep you from grabbing the wrong lever and thinking you put
the gear down when it fact you did not. I don't personally believe
that is an issue in the Yaks, maybe for the 52? Possible I guess. That
said, I don't have any stinking flaps on the YAK-50, so it would not
help me one little bit either Michael B. Cavanagh.
>
> The point Keith made is perfectly apt, and that is that ANYONE in
ANY make, model, series, of aircraft (unless it is down and welded) can
be the victim of landing with the gear up, or not carefully noting that
all THREE (or in my case TWO) green lights are on, etc. There have
been many cases where I have been on short final and have said to
myself: "Did I check the gear or not?" I don't hesitate, I look at them
AGAIN. After it has happened to YOU, either some very close call, or
actually scraping and skidding down the runway, you tend to become
paranoid about it, which is probably a good thing.
>
> Point is, the shape of the knob has no bearing on just simply
forgetting to lower the dang gear, which is what Keith was alluding to
and did not, in my opinion justify your publically written denigrating
response, but then I have been guilty of that as well, so I have no room
to talk.
>
> By the way, Keith *IS* one of the smart people.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK N66PW
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael B.
Cavanagh
> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:15 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in
Belgium ... 18 May 201
>
> --> <mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com>
>
> Nobody said it would. But some pretty smart people seem to think
it helps. You're right, probably would not help you one bit.
> On May 22, 2014, at 3:40 PM, keithmckinley <cetopfed@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
<cetopfed@gmail.com>
>>
>> Wheel "shmeel", ball, knob whatever. Not gonna save your ass,
even close. Hell, I flew a plane that had a button for gear up and one
for gear down. Look, it can happen to anyone, I'm sorry it happened to
this guy and I'm sorry it happened to that guy (on video) who had an
absolute cherry CJ with and M-14 and big prop....but hey, at least he
got the flaps down.....
>>
>> I can say without a doubt I have whipped into the break (CJ and
Miltary) and did a tight 180 to land and after landing thought I'm not
sure if I ever checked the gear. Maybe I did subconsciously, maybe not.
In any case, thank God for muscle memory and First Officers.......
>>
>> --------
>> Keith McKinley
>> 700HS
>> X26 Sebastian, FL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423610#423610
>>
>>
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| Subject: | Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 |
May 201
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PT0g
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 |
May 201
Unless you feel the need for speed. Then fly air force! :-)~
Mongoose
Richard Hess
C 404-964-4885
> On May 23, 2014, at 14:58, Jon Blake <jblake207@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> One small albeit significant addition to your post Mark.
>
> FLY ARMY! :-)
>
> Saber
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
>
>
> Mark Davis <markdavis@wbsnet.org> wrote:
>
> Can't we just drop the gear up discussion and get back with something seri
ous like the benefits of Marvel Mystery Oil and Nomex? : )
>
> Everyone have a safe Memorial Day weekend. Please take the time to rememb
er the purpose of the holiday.
> http://www.usmemorialday.org/?page_id=2
>
> Fly safe, fly often and FLY NAVY!
> Mark Davis
> N44YK
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: DaBear
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 12:47 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ..
. 18 May 201
>
> So I think there are multiple parts to this.
>
>
>
> This *IS* a forum for debate. If we can=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t sit arou
nd and debate points to find the best answer, this forum is useless. If we e
xpect someone to come with a question or comment and we should just all nod o
ur heads in agreement to the first answer, etc. Then what service are we br
inging? Debate is a good thing, personal attacks are NOT.
>
>
>
> When someone posts a different opinion, they are NOT attacking someone, qu
estioning their man/woman-hood/parentage, etc. It=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s a
different opinion. We need to stop getting our underwear in a bunch from s
ome perceived slight because of how the text is read.
>
>
>
> Example; some people get personally upset at curse words, others use them l
ike adjectives throughout their speech. Go to NYC and the F bomb is used in
saying good morning and how the )(*)& are you? Down south, that would be f
rowned upon in a huge way.
>
>
>
> The words are just bunches of letters and you should understanding the mea
ning before getting upset. And in the case of the forum, they are bunches o
f letters and bunches of words. People typically respond on this forum quic
kly, without a lot of proof reading and without worry in how their quickly w
orded response will be received. Take 80-95% of what is on this forum as p
eople trying to help. Otherwise, you might as well get off the internet bec
ause it is this way across thousands of forums.
>
>
>
> As to this thread, 11 skydivers didn=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t die because o
f a gear up landing. We=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2ve discussed multiple option
s to prevent gear up landings including experimental squat switches, horns, a
nd modified knobs. While all those are good ideas of things to help, they w
ill NOT prevent ALL gear up landings.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sooo=C3=A2=82=AC=C2
>
>
>
> Give each other a hug, say you are sorry and let the spirited debate conti
nue.
>
>
>
> Or not=C3=A2=82=AC=C2
>
>
>
> Bear
>
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp
> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 1:12 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ..
. 18 May 201
>
>
>
> Why, gentlemen do we, more times than not end up pissing off the original p
oster who I am sure only had the best intentions? If we keep this up the li
st will be populated only by those who do not believe the the axiom "if you c
an't say something nice don't say anything at all". After all is said and d
one, what have you accomplished?
>
>
>
> Doug Sapp
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Michael B. Cavanagh <mikecavanagh1@hotmai
l.com> wrote:
>
il.com>
>
> The point to this website is to share information, not debate and degrade o
thers trying to share good ideas. I agree with you that the shape of the g
ear handle is no help when you've forgotten there is a handle at all. Stayi
ng current and proficient is your best defense. I never said knobs were a c
ure. Losing SA, and that is what forgetting the gear is about, is helped by
being in front of the airplane and not being overly distracted when out of t
he ordinary things happen. No one is immune to forgetting the gear, and the
re is no one solution for preventing it. Read my paragraph again. That said
, I'm dropping this website and you won't hear from me again, Mr. Mark G. B
itterlich. AMF
> On May 23, 2014, at 9:33 AM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bit
terlich@navy.mil> wrote:
>
k.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >
> > I think the point here is that having different shaped knobs can indeed h
elp keep you from grabbing the wrong lever and thinking you put the gear dow
n when it fact you did not. I don't personally believe that is an issue in
the Yaks, maybe for the 52? Possible I guess. That said, I don't have any
stinking flaps on the YAK-50, so it would not help me one little bit either
Michael B. Cavanagh.
> >
> > The point Keith made is perfectly apt, and that is that ANYONE in ANY ma
ke, model, series, of aircraft (unless it is down and welded) can be the vic
tim of landing with the gear up, or not carefully noting that all THREE (or i
n my case TWO) green lights are on, etc. There have been many cases w
here I have been on short final and have said to myself: "Did I check the ge
ar or not?" I don't hesitate, I look at them AGAIN. After it has happened t
o YOU, either some very close call, or actually scraping and skidding down t
he runway, you tend to become paranoid about it, which is probably a good th
ing.
> >
> > Point is, the shape of the knob has no bearing on just simply forgetting
to lower the dang gear, which is what Keith was alluding to and did not, in
my opinion justify your publically written denigrating response, but t
hen I have been guilty of that as well, so I have no room to talk.
> >
> > By the way, Keith *IS* one of the smart people.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> > N50YK N66PW
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@
matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael B. Cavanagh
> > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:15 PM
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium .
.. 18 May 201
> >
> > --> list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium .
.. 18 May 201
> >
> > --> <mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Nobody said it would. But some pretty smart people seem to think it hel
ps. You're right, probably would not help you one bit.
> > On May 22, 2014, at 3:40 PM, keithmckinley <cetopfed@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Wheel "shmeel", ball, knob whatever. Not gonna save your ass, even clos
e. Hell, I flew a plane that had a button for gear up and one for gear down.
Look, it can happen to anyone, I'm sorry it happened to this guy and I'm so
rry it happened to that guy (on video) who had an absolute cherry CJ with an
d M-14 and big prop....but hey, at least he got the flaps down.....
> >>
> >> I can say without a doubt I have whipped into the break (CJ and Miltary
) and did a tight 180 to land and after landing thought I'm not sure if I ev
er checked the gear. Maybe I did subconsciously, maybe not. In any case, tha
nk God for muscle memory and First Officers.......
> >>
> >> --------
> >> Keith McKinley
> >> 700HS
> >> X26 Sebastian, FL
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Read this topic online here:
> >>
> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423610#423610
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ==========
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
> =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9E=C3=99=C3=8A%=C2=A2=C2=BD
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=A1r=C3=BE=1Bf=93i
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 |
May 201
Have a nice day.
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
on behalf of Michael B. Cavanagh [mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18
May 201
The point to this website is to share information, not debate and degrade others
trying to share good ideas. I agree with you that the shape of the gear handle
is no help when you've forgotten there is a handle at all. Staying current
and proficient is your best defense. I never said knobs were a cure. Losing
SA, and that is what forgetting the gear is about, is helped by being in front
of the airplane and not being overly distracted when out of the ordinary things
happen. No one is immune to forgetting the gear, and there is no one solution
for preventing it. Read my paragraph again. That said, I'm dropping this
website and you won't hear from me again, Mr. Mark G. Bitterlich. AMF
On May 23, 2014, at 9:33 AM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
wrote:
>
> I think the point here is that having different shaped knobs can indeed help
keep you from grabbing the wrong lever and thinking you put the gear down when
it fact you did not. I don't personally believe that is an issue in the Yaks,
maybe for the 52? Possible I guess. That said, I don't have any stinking
flaps on the YAK-50, so it would not help me one little bit either Michael B.
Cavanagh.
>
> The point Keith made is perfectly apt, and that is that ANYONE in ANY make, model,
series, of aircraft (unless it is down and welded) can be the victim of
landing with the gear up, or not carefully noting that all THREE (or in my case
TWO) green lights are on, etc. There have been many cases where I have been
on short final and have said to myself: "Did I check the gear or not?" I don't
hesitate, I look at them AGAIN. After it has happened to YOU, either some
very close call, or actually scraping and skidding down the runway, you tend
to become paranoid about it, which is probably a good thing.
>
> Point is, the shape of the knob has no bearing on just simply forgetting to lower
the dang gear, which is what Keith was alluding to and did not, in my opinion
justify your publically written denigrating response, but then I have been
guilty of that as well, so I have no room to talk.
>
> By the way, Keith *IS* one of the smart people.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK N66PW
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael B. Cavanagh
> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:15 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18
May 201
>
> --> <mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com>
>
> Nobody said it would. But some pretty smart people seem to think it helps.
You're right, probably would not help you one bit.
> On May 22, 2014, at 3:40 PM, keithmckinley <cetopfed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Wheel "shmeel", ball, knob whatever. Not gonna save your ass, even close. Hell,
I flew a plane that had a button for gear up and one for gear down. Look,
it can happen to anyone, I'm sorry it happened to this guy and I'm sorry it happened
to that guy (on video) who had an absolute cherry CJ with and M-14 and
big prop....but hey, at least he got the flaps down.....
>>
>> I can say without a doubt I have whipped into the break (CJ and Miltary) and
did a tight 180 to land and after landing thought I'm not sure if I ever checked
the gear. Maybe I did subconsciously, maybe not. In any case, thank God for
muscle memory and First Officers.......
>>
>> --------
>> Keith McKinley
>> 700HS
>> X26 Sebastian, FL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423610#423610
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May |
2014
Everything and anything helps, but it never will take away from the simple fact
that the most important change to make is the one located between your ears.
While the big topic seems to be different shapes for different controls..... has
anyone thought of the proper shape for the AIR VALVE? The one that if left
off will end up with a gear up landing? Hmmm.
I switch back and forth between a fixed gear UTVA-66 and a YAK-50 all the time,
and every single time I do, I have to wrap my head around the fact that I have
to make a total mental attitude change. I understand the flap/gear knob suggestion
and it is a good one. But as I mentioned, I have no flaps, and it is
STILL an easy thing to do to miss the gear. It goes so far as to include are
all THREE of those lights on (in my case 2), or did I just see some "green light".
For ME it was an attitude adjustment. What it was/is for everyone else ... I have
no freaking clue.
What I have found of interest is the stories you hear from pilots who have HAD
gear up landings. A lot of follks find it very hard to come clean on this, especially
when insurance comes into play.
Good luck with the knobs. I hope they save the day. No, really. No amount of
money is too much to avoid the alternative.
Mark
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
on behalf of DaBear [dabear@damned.org]
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 4:06 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May
2014
My opinion only..
But plenty of standard airplanes land gear up, or pull the gear up on the ground
with those different knobs. While they may help. Sometimes we just make mistakes.
Bear
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kingcj6@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May
2014
At one point, Bill Blackwell was selling a 2.5 red-colored aluminum wheel with
GEAR engraved on the front, machined to fit CJs clearly different than the flap
ball/knob in color, size, material and shape. Not sure if it fits the Yaks.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Lannon <wlannon@shaw.ca<mailto:wlannon@shaw.ca>>
Sent: Wed, May 21, 2014 4:32 pm
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May
2014
Already did that on my CJ, Alum alloy wheels (with tread) and black
anodized.
Walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael B. Cavanagh
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18
May 2014
<mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com<mailto:mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com>>
Mark is right. Breaking the normal routine or being distracted can bite us.
Another twist is that during times of distraction or multi-tasking you may
inadvertently operate a an identical looking or feeling control not even
realizing you've done it. This is slightly off the subject of forgetting
the gear, but may prevent someone from inadvertently raising the gear on the
ground. Although in different cockpit locations, the operation and
appearance of the flap and gear controls on the YAK 52 is similar enough
that I have modified mine so that the gear handle has a black wheel painted
to look like a wheel, and my flap control has a blue airfoil like a flap as
the handle. Visually they look completely different and tactilely they feel
different. I don't want my brain to subconsciously link the two. You'd
think it can't happen, but it can. Your brain can be a dangerous thing. I
used hard wood to shape the new control knobs, drilled them and mounted them
just like the or!
iginals. Before gear and flap controls were redesigned to look like wheels
and flaps a number of airliners suffered gear retractions when a flight
crew member raised the gear thinking they were retracting the flaps. I once
extended the Flaps on my YAK while thinking GEAR. I was distracted but
luckily got it sorted out when I reached down to extend the FLAPS and found
them already extended. Brain Fart! I realized the two controls being nearly
identical could cause big problems for me and decided then to make the
changes. Brain Farts are gonna happen, and as I get older more often, so we
try hard to control them with good training, SOPs, good design, and
checklists. Modifying the two knobs is an easy thing to do and it may
protect you from a publicly demonstrated brain fart. Good Luck. Blue side
up. DUCK
On May 21, 2014, at 11:37 AM, Mark Davis <markdavis@wbsnet.org<mailto:markdavis@wbsnet.org>> wrote:
>
> Walt,
> I'm a believer in the "those who have and those who will" on gear up
> landings. I normally add "and those who will again". Checklists are
> great, but distractions have a way of rearing their head on even the most
> professional and astute pilots. There's a good reason every Naval Air
> Station in the Training Command has a Runway Duty Officer monitoring all
> landings. I personally do a landing checklist over the intercom even if
> I'm solo on every landing. It's a break in the normal routine that bites
> most. So far, I'm in the "those who will" category!
>
> Mark Davis
> N44YK
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@shaw.ca<mailto:wlannon@shaw.ca>>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com<mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:16 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18
> May 2014
>
>
>>
>> Jim;
>>
>> Does that mean that everybody will do a gear up landing?
>>
>> Walt
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: James Goolsby
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 6:46 AM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com<mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ...
>> 18 May 2014
>>
>>
>> A fact of life and aviation. NO ONE --- NO ONE, no matter their flying
>> time or license in their. pocket, is safe from NOT making a gear up
>> landing. And it's a fool who thinks any government can do any better.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad from some where on The 3rd rock from the Sun.
>>
>>> On May 21, 2014, at 6:07, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD"
>>> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>> wrote:
>>>
>>> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>
>>>
>>> Concur
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>.com<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
>>> [owner-yak-list-server@matronics<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>.com<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>] on behalf of Bill Geipel
>>> [l129bs@gmail.com<mailto:l129bs@gmail.com>]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 2:27 AM
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com<mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ...
>>> 18 May 2014
>>>
>>>
>>> Getting instruction from an "Aerobatic" instructor will not get the gear
>>> down any better
>>> I would appreciate it if the FAA would not get involved in a non-event
>>> like a gear up landing in a Yak. Not much damage not much of an issue.
>>> Good luck fighting the government.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On May 21, 2014, at 13:41, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be<mailto:jan.mevis@informavia.be>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To all the Yak listers:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mr Verhellen is at war with the airfield of Namur. That is obvious.
>>>>
>>>> He 'll do whatever he can to harm the airfield and the people that are
>>>> based there.
>>>>
>>>> I try to stay out of his fight. It's none of my business but this time,
>>>> and only this time, I have to react.
>>>>
>>>> @Etienne: KEEP YOUR PERSONAL STUFF OFF THE LIST! YOU ARE ABUSING THE
>>>> LIST.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jan, Yak 50, F-AZUK, based ath the Namur airfield.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> PS: I will not respond on eventual replies from Etienne Verhellen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 20/05/14 22:38, "Etienne Verhellen" <janie@yak52.fr<mailto:janie@yak52.fr>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Another Yak-52 'gear-up' landing accident in Belgium ....
>>>>> [Exclamation]
>>>>> [Exclamation] [Exclamation]
>>>>> ====================
>>>>>
>>>>> Sunday 18 May 2014 - Namur airfield, EBNM.
>>>>>
>>>>> See attached photo taken just a few moments after the crash in EBNM.
>>>>>
>>>>> # Yak-52 Serial No. : 822203.
>>>>> http://www.avbuyer.com/aircraft-for-sale/piston/single-engine/Yak/52-34707
>>>>> /Yak-52-for-sale-34707.200.1.jpg
>>>>> http://www.avbuyer.com/aircraft-for-sale/piston/single-engine/Yak/52-34707
>>>>> /
>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/96986043@N08/14044351540/
>>>>>
>>>>> Previously UK CAA registered (G-YAKO) and maintained under the
>>>>> supervision of the UK Civil Aviation Authorithy
>>>>> according to the Directives from the aircraft manufacturer, the
>>>>> Yakovlev
>>>>> Design Bureau (YDB) regarding Life items
>>>>> (Airframe, Engine, Propeller, Air bottles, Actuators, hoses, ...)
>>>>> http://www.yakuk.com/mpd.htm
>>>>> https://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/20140318MPD2002009R3.pdf
>>>>> http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=de
>>>>> tailnosummary&fullregmark=YAKO
>>>>> http://www.caa.co.uk/applicationmodules/ginfo/ginfo_photo.aspx?regmark=G-Y
>>>>> AKO&imgname=G-YAKO001&imgtype=jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> ... But then 'received' a Polish registration when it arrived in
>>>>> Belgium
>>>>> ...
>>>>> (Belgian CAA Inspectors and AAIU - the 'Belgian AAIB' - have
>>>>> ABSOLUTELY
>>>>> NO CLUE about Yak-52) ...
>>>>> RA-xxxxK, SP-YAM, F-WRUH, F-AZXK, LY-FOU, T7-xxx, ... etc etc
>>>>>
>>>>> At least 2 'gear up' accident for the 'pilot' of this Yak-52 :
>>>>> This one and one on Saturday 4 September, 2010 ...
>>>>>
>>>>> # Yak-52 Serial No. : 899409 (RA-1453K then Temporary French
>>>>> registration
>>>>> F-WRUH)
>>>>> has done at least 3 'gear-up' landings in Namur airfield EBNM, Belgium
>>>>> ...
>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/62861611@N08/8951700885/
>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/96986043@N08/14230563495/
>>>>>
>>>>> So ... at least (!!!!!) ... 5 Yak-52 'gear-up' accidents at Namur
>>>>> airfield in Belgium (EBNM).
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe more because they do not get reported when they happen at Namur
>>>>> airfield [Rolling Eyes]
>>>>>
>>>>> NOT a single report to Belgian CAA (DGTA) and Air Accident
>>>>> Investigation
>>>>> Unit (AAIU - Mr Luc Blendeman)
>>>>> by the pilot or by the airfield 'commander' ...
>>>>> http://www.mobilit.belgium.be/fr/transport_aerien/accidents/notification/
>>>>> http://www.mobilit.belgium.be/fr/binaries/accid01NF_tcm467-215518.pdf
>>>>> http://www.mobilit.belgium.be/fr/binaries/airw09%20NF_tcm467-215537.pdf
>>>>> http://www.mobilit.belgium.be/fr/transport_aerien/aeroports/terrains/aerod
>>>>> romes/
>>>>>
>>>>> How come Herbert Decouvreur is still in charge as 'Commandant
>>>>> d'Arodrome' ??
>>>>> Protected by some Safety Inspectors maybe ... (Mrs Genevive Laloux -
>>>>> Hugo WUYTS ??)
>>>>> http://www.mobilit.belgium.be/fr/binaries/INS01NF_tcm467-215745.pdf
>>>>> A lot of accidents at Namur airfield ... 19 October 2013 ... 11 people
>>>>> KILLED. Something needs to be done.
>>>>> Something MUST be done by the Belgian CAA before more people die.
>>>>>
>>>>> _____________________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> A few years ago there was another VERY serious Yak-52 accident that
>>>>> could
>>>>> have 'easily' killed 2 or 3 persons.
>>>>> The Belgian AAIU was informed but NOT INTERESTED.
>>>>> No accident report published although it was promissed ...
>>>>> So NO LESSON learned. I am fed up with this attitude.
>>>>> _____________________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> [Arrow] Is there an issue with the maintenance of Yaks in Belgium
>>>>> [Question] YES.
>>>>>
>>>>> [Arrow] [Arrow] Is there an issue with the training of Yak pilots in
>>>>> Belgium [Question] [Exclamation] Quite clearly YES [Shocked]
>>>>>
>>>>> _____________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> [Idea] Maintain your Yaks properly.
>>>>>
>>>>> [Idea] Get type specific training from an experienced Yak-52 Aerobatic
>>>>> FI (A) Flight Instructor.
>>>>>
>>>>> [Idea] [Idea] Put the gear down before landing.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/flight_international_yak_52_issues_orig<http://forums.matronics.com/files/flight_international_yak_52_issues_orig>
>>>>> inal_363.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers.
>>>>> http://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/403690/g-cbss-private-yakovlev-yak-
>>>>> 52/
>>>>>
>>>>> --------
>>>>> http://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/240525/g-cbss-private-yakovlev-yak-
>>>>> 52/
>>>>> http://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/215762/g-cbss-private-yakovlev-yak-
>>>>> 52/
>>>>> http://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/403690/g-cbss-private-yakovlev-yak-
>>>>> 52/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423517#423517
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Attachments:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/accident_arodrome_de_namur_ebnm__dimanc<http://forums.matronics.com/files/accident_arodrome_de_namur_ebnm__dimanc>
>>>>> he_18_mai_2014__yak_52_sp_yam__dgta__aaiu_800x600_150.jpg
>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/accident_arodrome_de_namur_ebnm__dimanc<http://forums.matronics.com/files/accident_arodrome_de_namur_ebnm__dimanc>
>>>>> he_18_mai_2014__yak_52_sp_yam__dgta__aaiu_2_743.jpg
>>>>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/yak_52_training_airworthiness_and_regis<http://forums.matronics.com/files/yak_52_training_airworthiness_and_regis>
>>>>> tration_issues_111.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
et=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 |
May 201
Jan, I think everyone realized the worth of the original posting.
Mark
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 |
May 201
We're not just beating this dead horse but puree'ing it.
On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 6:43 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
> mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Jan, I think everyone realized the worth of the original posting.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 |
May 201
There are several horses involved. I don't think any of them won the race, several
are still pushing for position, and one left the track and went home disgusted.
It just does not get any better on "The Yak List".
So tell me again why it is important to wear a Flight Suit in your War Bird?
Why, SAFETY of course! What other reason could there be?
Nice to hear from you by the way......
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
on behalf of Ernest Martinez [erniel29@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18
May 201
We're not just beating this dead horse but puree'ing it.
On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 6:43 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>> wrote:
Jan, I think everyone realized the worth of the original posting.
Mark
==========
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
==========
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
==========
e -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May |
20
[quote="mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m"]
So tell me again why it is important to wear a Flight Suit in your War Bird?
Why, SAFETY of course! What other reason could there be?
[/quote]
The one grand divide that will keep a generation away from Red Star.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423705#423705
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