Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:43 AM - Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 20 (Bill Geipel)
2. 05:53 AM - Fw: Dead horses (Roger Kemp)
3. 09:23 AM - Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201 (Walter Lannon)
4. 11:10 AM - Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201 (Byron M Fox)
5. 01:10 PM - Re: Vibrating control (Jacquescj6)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 |
May 20
Please, not again.
On May 24, 2014, at 11:01, "LawnDart" <propwash@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [quote="mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m"]
> So tell me again why it is important to wear a Flight Suit in your War Bird?
Why, SAFETY of course! What other reason could there be?
> [/quote]
>
> The one grand divide that will keep a generation away from Red Star.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423705#423705
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Fwd: Dead horses |
Apparently Mat does not recognize me any longer. Probably a good thing.
See attached
Have a safe Memorial Day now YA Hear,
Doc
Sent from my iPad
Begin forwarded message:
> From: "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> Date: May 24, 2014 at 7:47:42 AM CDT
> To: "yak-list-digest@matronics.com" <yak-list-digest@matronics.com>
> Subject: Dead horses
>
> Guys,
> Y'all have not only beat this dead horse to a pulp, peed on it, pulverized it,
and turned it's bones to dust. But when you solve "Shit Happens" let me know.
> Please delete all of the previous message on a thread before you repost on that
thread. Sorting through the hyroglyphics in the daily batch dump is a bitch.
> To another topic, anyone have a contact # or email for Paco? I have a MalComb
Hood question for him.
> Thanks,
> Lurking Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 |
May 201
Well said Randy
Walt
From: DaBear
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 11:47 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium
... 18 May 201
So I think there are multiple parts to this.
This *IS* a forum for debate. If we can=99t sit around and debate
points to find the best answer, this forum is useless. If we expect
someone to come with a question or comment and we should just all nod
our heads in agreement to the first answer, etc. Then what service are
we bringing? Debate is a good thing, personal attacks are NOT.
When someone posts a different opinion, they are NOT attacking someone,
questioning their man/woman-hood/parentage, etc. It=99s a
different opinion. We need to stop getting our underwear in a bunch
from some perceived slight because of how the text is read.
Example; some people get personally upset at curse words, others use
them like adjectives throughout their speech. Go to NYC and the F bomb
is used in saying good morning and how the )(*)& are you? Down south,
that would be frowned upon in a huge way.
The words are just bunches of letters and you should understanding the
meaning before getting upset. And in the case of the forum, they are
bunches of letters and bunches of words. People typically respond on
this forum quickly, without a lot of proof reading and without worry in
how their quickly worded response will be received. Take 80-95% of
what is on this forum as people trying to help. Otherwise, you might as
well get off the internet because it is this way across thousands of
forums.
As to this thread, 11 skydivers didn=99t die because of a gear up
landing. We=99ve discussed multiple options to prevent gear up
landings including experimental squat switches, horns, and modified
knobs. While all those are good ideas of things to help, they will NOT
prevent ALL gear up landings.
Sooo
Give each other a hug, say you are sorry and let the spirited debate
continue.
Or not
Bear
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium
... 18 May 201
Why, gentlemen do we, more times than not end up pissing off the
original poster who I am sure only had the best intentions? If we keep
this up the list will be populated only by those who do not believe the
the axiom "if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all".
After all is said and done, what have you accomplished?
Doug Sapp
On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Michael B. Cavanagh
<mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com> wrote:
<mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com>
The point to this website is to share information, not debate and
degrade others trying to share good ideas. I agree with you that the
shape of the gear handle is no help when you've forgotten there is a
handle at all. Staying current and proficient is your best defense. I
never said knobs were a cure. Losing SA, and that is what forgetting
the gear is about, is helped by being in front of the airplane and not
being overly distracted when out of the ordinary things happen. No one
is immune to forgetting the gear, and there is no one solution for
preventing it. Read my paragraph again. That said, I'm dropping this
website and you won't hear from me again, Mr. Mark G. Bitterlich. AMF
On May 23, 2014, at 9:33 AM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> I think the point here is that having different shaped knobs can
indeed help keep you from grabbing the wrong lever and thinking you put
the gear down when it fact you did not. I don't personally believe
that is an issue in the Yaks, maybe for the 52? Possible I guess. That
said, I don't have any stinking flaps on the YAK-50, so it would not
help me one little bit either Michael B. Cavanagh.
>
> The point Keith made is perfectly apt, and that is that ANYONE in
ANY make, model, series, of aircraft (unless it is down and welded) can
be the victim of landing with the gear up, or not carefully noting that
all THREE (or in my case TWO) green lights are on, etc. There have
been many cases where I have been on short final and have said to
myself: "Did I check the gear or not?" I don't hesitate, I look at them
AGAIN. After it has happened to YOU, either some very close call, or
actually scraping and skidding down the runway, you tend to become
paranoid about it, which is probably a good thing.
>
> Point is, the shape of the knob has no bearing on just simply
forgetting to lower the dang gear, which is what Keith was alluding to
and did not, in my opinion justify your publically written denigrating
response, but then I have been guilty of that as well, so I have no room
to talk.
>
> By the way, Keith *IS* one of the smart people.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK N66PW
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael B.
Cavanagh
> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:15 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in
Belgium ... 18 May 201
>
> --> <mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com>
>
> Nobody said it would. But some pretty smart people seem to think it
helps. You're right, probably would not help you one bit.
> On May 22, 2014, at 3:40 PM, keithmckinley <cetopfed@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
<cetopfed@gmail.com>
>>
>> Wheel "shmeel", ball, knob whatever. Not gonna save your ass, even
close. Hell, I flew a plane that had a button for gear up and one for
gear down. Look, it can happen to anyone, I'm sorry it happened to this
guy and I'm sorry it happened to that guy (on video) who had an absolute
cherry CJ with and M-14 and big prop....but hey, at least he got the
flaps down.....
>>
>> I can say without a doubt I have whipped into the break (CJ and
Miltary) and did a tight 180 to land and after landing thought I'm not
sure if I ever checked the gear. Maybe I did subconsciously, maybe not.
In any case, thank God for muscle memory and First Officers.......
>>
>> --------
>> Keith McKinley
>> 700HS
>> X26 Sebastian, FL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423610#423610
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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k">http://forums.matronics.com
==========
e -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 |
May 201
Ditto, Bear!
Blitz Fox
415-307-2405
> On May 24, 2014, at 6:22 AM, "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> Well said Randy
>
> Walt
>
> From: DaBear
> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 11:47 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ..
. 18 May 201
>
> So I think there are multiple parts to this.
>
> This *IS* a forum for debate. If we can=99t sit around and debate p
oints to find the best answer, this forum is useless. If we expect someone t
o come with a question or comment and we should just all nod our heads in ag
reement to the first answer, etc. Then what service are we bringing? Debat
e is a good thing, personal attacks are NOT.
>
> When someone posts a different opinion, they are NOT attacking someone, qu
estioning their man/woman-hood/parentage, etc. It=99s a different opi
nion. We need to stop getting our underwear in a bunch from some perceived s
light because of how the text is read.
>
> Example; some people get personally upset at curse words, others use them l
ike adjectives throughout their speech. Go to NYC and the F bomb is used in
saying good morning and how the )(*)& are you? Down south, that would be f
rowned upon in a huge way.
>
> The words are just bunches of letters and you should understanding the mea
ning before getting upset. And in the case of the forum, they are bunches o
f letters and bunches of words. People typically respond on this forum quic
kly, without a lot of proof reading and without worry in how their quickly w
orded response will be received. Take 80-95% of what is on this forum as p
eople trying to help. Otherwise, you might as well get off the internet bec
ause it is this way across thousands of forums.
>
> As to this thread, 11 skydivers didn=99t die because of a gear up la
nding. We=99ve discussed multiple options to prevent gear up landings
including experimental squat switches, horns, and modified knobs. While al
l those are good ideas of things to help, they will NOT prevent ALL gear up l
andings.
>
>
> Sooo
>
> Give each other a hug, say you are sorry and let the spirited debate conti
nue.
>
> Or not
>
> Bear
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp
> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 1:12 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ..
. 18 May 201
>
> Why, gentlemen do we, more times than not end up pissing off the original p
oster who I am sure only had the best intentions? If we keep this up the li
st will be populated only by those who do not believe the the axiom "if you c
an't say something nice don't say anything at all". After all is said and d
one, what have you accomplished?
>
> Doug Sapp
>
>
> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Michael B. Cavanagh <mikecavanagh1@hotmai
l.com> wrote:
il.com>
>
> The point to this website is to share information, not debate and degrade o
thers trying to share good ideas. I agree with you that the shape of the g
ear handle is no help when you've forgotten there is a handle at all. Stayi
ng current and proficient is your best defense. I never said knobs were a c
ure. Losing SA, and that is what forgetting the gear is about, is helped by
being in front of the airplane and not being overly distracted when out of t
he ordinary things happen. No one is immune to forgetting the gear, and the
re is no one solution for preventing it. Read my paragraph again. That said
, I'm dropping this website and you won't hear from me again, Mr. Mark G. B
itterlich. AMF
> On May 23, 2014, at 9:33 AM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bit
terlich@navy.mil> wrote:
>
k.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >
> > I think the point here is that having different shaped knobs can indeed h
elp keep you from grabbing the wrong lever and thinking you put the gear dow
n when it fact you did not. I don't personally believe that is an issue in
the Yaks, maybe for the 52? Possible I guess. That said, I don't have any
stinking flaps on the YAK-50, so it would not help me one little bit either
Michael B. Cavanagh.
> >
> > The point Keith made is perfectly apt, and that is that ANYONE in ANY ma
ke, model, series, of aircraft (unless it is down and welded) can be the vic
tim of landing with the gear up, or not carefully noting that all THREE (or i
n my case TWO) green lights are on, etc. There have been many cases where I
have been on short final and have said to myself: "Did I check the gear or n
ot?" I don't hesitate, I look at them AGAIN. After it has happened to YOU,
either some very close call, or actually scraping and skidding down the run
way, you tend to become paranoid about it, which is probably a good thing.
> >
> > Point is, the shape of the knob has no bearing on just simply forgetting
to lower the dang gear, which is what Keith was alluding to and did not, in
my opinion justify your publically written denigrating response, but then I
have been guilty of that as well, so I have no room to talk.
> >
> > By the way, Keith *IS* one of the smart people.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> > N50YK N66PW
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@
matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael B. Cavanagh
> > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:15 PM
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium .
.. 18 May 201
> >
> > --> <mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Nobody said it would. But some pretty smart people seem to think it hel
ps. You're right, probably would not help you one bit.
> > On May 22, 2014, at 3:40 PM, keithmckinley <cetopfed@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Wheel "shmeel", ball, knob whatever. Not gonna save your ass, even clos
e. Hell, I flew a plane that had a button for gear up and one for gear down.
Look, it can happen to anyone, I'm sorry it happened to this guy and I'm so
rry it happened to that guy (on video) who had an absolute cherry CJ with an
d M-14 and big prop....but hey, at least he got the flaps down.....
> >>
> >> I can say without a doubt I have whipped into the break (CJ and Miltary
) and did a tight 180 to land and after landing thought I'm not sure if I ev
er checked the gear. Maybe I did subconsciously, maybe not. In any case, tha
nk God for muscle memory and First Officers.......
> >>
> >> --------
> >> Keith McKinley
> >> 700HS
> >> X26 Sebastian, FL
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Read this topic online here:
> >>
> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423610#423610
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ==========
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> MS -
> k">http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> e -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Vibrating control |
Hi All
Just an update on the vibrations.
The propshop did a static balance and wala the vibration is now gone.
Thanks for all the help guys.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423748#423748
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