Today's Message Index:
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1. 03:25 PM - Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 2014 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
2. 03:28 PM - Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
3. 03:29 PM - Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 20 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 |
May 2014
Etienne,
PLEASE TAKE THIS CONVERSATION OFF LIST.
The Yak List is not here for your personan agenda.
Thank you. Further such communication will be copied to the List owner with a
complaint.
Mark Bitterlich
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
on behalf of Etienne Verhellen [janie@yak52.fr]
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2014 5:29 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May
2014
1. Yak-52 belly landings in Belgium ... continued.
2. Mr Jan MEVIS from Belgium ...
If you don't feel like reading this ...
Good for you, go for a walk and enjoy the day.
If you continue, don't come back complaining afterwards.
THIS is THE internet !!!!! And a 'free' world ...
==============================================
Regarding the last Yak-52 belly landing in Belgium (EBNM) last Sunday,
some interesting informations to be shared on the Yak-List.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/96986043@N08/14044351540/in/photostream/lightbox/
And this is straight from the horse's mouth [Exclamation] [Embarassed]
__________________________________________________________
Thank you for your message, no one hurt.
There was a gear indication problem through the flight
and I cycled the gear twice.
There was then an engine problem with CHT going to 300 C
and oil to 120C.
As these are values that are close to the engine seizing I needed to land ASAP.
The rest is history.
The only damage to the aircraft is the prop everything else is fine.
There is a lot of oil on the right wing so I think the engine will need examining.
There was not much oil left when I checked it after the flight so let's see what
is found.
Best regards
Arthur.
_____________________________________________________________
Humm ... Quite a few issues here ... To say the least [Exclamation] [Exclamation]
[Exclamation]
But ...
# What kind of indication problems [Question] [Rolling Eyes] Light bulbs [Question]
Soldiers [Question]
What did cycling the gear twice achieve ??
# CHT going to 300 degrees and oil temperature to 120 degrees [Exclamation] [Exclamation]
http://fanairplane.free.fr/affichage2.php?img=7323
Indeed well into the red and a serious problem with your M-14P my friend !
# The only damage to the aircraft is the prop ... Really [Question] [Question]
# Everything else is fine .... [Exclamation] [Exclamation] YOU MUST BE KIDDING
[Evil or Very Mad]
[Arrow] [Arrow]
We are voting in Belgium and in Europe today ...
My friend Jan Mevis wrote above :
PS: I will not respond on eventual replies from Etienne Verhellen. GOOD.
Maybe he will also stop with his petty complaints to the world !
But since we are voting today Mr Jan MEVIS' friends need to know he is politically
active,
stood for election a few times and consequently people
everywhere have the right to know who he is and the values he represents.
He is a member of a extreme-right fascist Belgian political party called the Vlaams
Belang (VB) :
http://www.vlaamsbelang2006.be/1/3/60/540
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlaams_Belang
http://www.resistances.be/vmo2.html
http://rechtsactueel.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/roger5.jpg?w=640&h=480
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Flemish_Militants
Jan MEVIS' militant website :
http://www.vlaamsemilitantenorde.com<http://www.vlaamsemilitantenorde.com/>
Chilling to say the least ...
Time to call a spade a spade.
Tomorrow Monday, the 26th of May 2014 is also Memorial Day.
Let's remember the men who died while serving in the United States and Allied
Armed Forces in Europe fighting the Nazi regime.
Thanks to their sacrifice we are able to vote again today.
(And fly Russian Yaks freely).
THANK YOU.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423761#423761
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 |
May 201
Bear,
Discussions of incidents is one thing. Using the list as a public agenda to attack
specific people is another thing.
The former is good. The latter is not to be encouraged or tolerated.
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
on behalf of Byron M Fox [byronmfox@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18
May 201
Ditto, Bear!
Blitz Fox
415-307-2405
On May 24, 2014, at 6:22 AM, "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@shaw.ca<mailto:wlannon@shaw.ca>> wrote:
Well said Randy
Walt
From: DaBear<mailto:dabear@damned.org>
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 11:47 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18
May 201
So I think there are multiple parts to this.
This *IS* a forum for debate. If we cant sit around and debate points to find
the best answer, this forum is useless. If we expect someone to come with a question
or comment and we should just all nod our heads in agreement to the first
answer, etc. Then what service are we bringing? Debate is a good thing,
personal attacks are NOT.
When someone posts a different opinion, they are NOT attacking someone, questioning
their man/woman-hood/parentage, etc. Its a different opinion. We need to
stop getting our underwear in a bunch from some perceived slight because of
how the text is read.
Example; some people get personally upset at curse words, others use them like
adjectives throughout their speech. Go to NYC and the F bomb is used in saying
good morning and how the )(*)& are you? Down south, that would be frowned
upon in a huge way.
The words are just bunches of letters and you should understanding the meaning
before getting upset. And in the case of the forum, they are bunches of letters
and bunches of words. People typically respond on this forum quickly, without
a lot of proof reading and without worry in how their quickly worded response
will be received. Take 80-95% of what is on this forum as people trying
to help. Otherwise, you might as well get off the internet because it is this
way across thousands of forums.
As to this thread, 11 skydivers didnt die because of a gear up landing. Weve discussed
multiple options to prevent gear up landings including experimental squat
switches, horns, and modified knobs. While all those are good ideas of things
to help, they will NOT prevent ALL gear up landings.
Sooo
Give each other a hug, say you are sorry and let the spirited debate continue.
Or not
Bear
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18
May 201
Why, gentlemen do we, more times than not end up pissing off the original poster
who I am sure only had the best intentions? If we keep this up the list will
be populated only by those who do not believe the the axiom "if you can't say
something nice don't say anything at all". After all is said and done, what
have you accomplished?
Doug Sapp
On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Michael B. Cavanagh <mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com<mailto:mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com>> wrote:
The point to this website is to share information, not debate and degrade others
trying to share good ideas. I agree with you that the shape of the gear handle
is no help when you've forgotten there is a handle at all. Staying current
and proficient is your best defense. I never said knobs were a cure. Losing
SA, and that is what forgetting the gear is about, is helped by being in front
of the airplane and not being overly distracted when out of the ordinary things
happen. No one is immune to forgetting the gear, and there is no one solution
for preventing it. Read my paragraph again. That said, I'm dropping this
website and you won't hear from me again, Mr. Mark G. Bitterlich. AMF
On May 23, 2014, at 9:33 AM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil<mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>> wrote:
>
> I think the point here is that having different shaped knobs can indeed help
keep you from grabbing the wrong lever and thinking you put the gear down when
it fact you did not. I don't personally believe that is an issue in the Yaks,
maybe for the 52? Possible I guess. That said, I don't have any stinking
flaps on the YAK-50, so it would not help me one little bit either Michael B.
Cavanagh.
>
> The point Keith made is perfectly apt, and that is that ANYONE in ANY make, model,
series, of aircraft (unless it is down and welded) can be the victim of
landing with the gear up, or not carefully noting that all THREE (or in my case
TWO) green lights are on, etc. There have been many cases where I have been
on short final and have said to myself: "Did I check the gear or not?" I don't
hesitate, I look at them AGAIN. After it has happened to YOU, either some
very close call, or actually scraping and skidding down the runway, you tend
to become paranoid about it, which is probably a good thing.
>
> Point is, the shape of the knob has no bearing on just simply forgetting to lower
the dang gear, which is what Keith was alluding to and did not, in my opinion
justify your publically written denigrating response, but then I have been
guilty of that as well, so I have no room to talk.
>
> By the way, Keith *IS* one of the smart people.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK N66PW
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Michael B. Cavanagh
> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:15 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com<mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18
May 201
>
> --> <mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com<mailto:mikecavanagh1@hotmail.com>>
>
> Nobody said it would. But some pretty smart people seem to think it helps.
You're right, probably would not help you one bit.
> On May 22, 2014, at 3:40 PM, keithmckinley <cetopfed@gmail.com<mailto:cetopfed@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>>
>> Wheel "shmeel", ball, knob whatever. Not gonna save your ass, even close. Hell,
I flew a plane that had a button for gear up and one for gear down. Look,
it can happen to anyone, I'm sorry it happened to this guy and I'm sorry it happened
to that guy (on video) who had an absolute cherry CJ with and M-14 and
big prop....but hey, at least he got the flaps down.....
>>
>> I can say without a doubt I have whipped into the break (CJ and Miltary) and
did a tight 180 to land and after landing thought I'm not sure if I ever checked
the gear. Maybe I did subconsciously, maybe not. In any case, thank God for
muscle memory and First Officers.......
>>
>> --------
>> Keith McKinley
>> 700HS
>> X26 Sebastian, FL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423610#423610
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 |
May 20
I actually thought the same thing myself Bill. The comment was made "tongue in
cheek".
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
on behalf of Bill Geipel [l129bs@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 5:43 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18
May 20
Please, not again.
On May 24, 2014, at 11:01, "LawnDart" <propwash@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [quote="mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m"]
> So tell me again why it is important to wear a Flight Suit in your War Bird?
Why, SAFETY of course! What other reason could there be?
> [/quote]
>
> The one grand divide that will keep a generation away from Red Star.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423705#423705
>
>
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