Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:35 AM - Re: Oil (Jim)
2. 08:03 AM - Re: Re: Pressure Problem (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
3. 08:59 AM - Re: Re: Pressure Problem (Warren Hill)
4. 09:30 AM - Re: Oil (Roger Baker)
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| Subject: | Re: Pressure Problem |
Hi Warren, thanks for the feedback, and I am glad that you were able to use the
knowledge to good advantage! That said, sorry you had to replace all three
gear actuators! Holy Cow! On the other hand, you are probably a lot safer
now than you were before... and I am not talking "safety for the sake of safety"
I am talking about having a landing accident!
Like your "old joke". I'll use that one!
Take care and I hope it's quite a while before anything else decides it needs to
be fixed!
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Warren Hill
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Pressure Problem
Mark,
Wanted to thank you for the insights below. Had several episodes of an intermittent
in-flight gear up problem associated with loud hissing from the forward cockpit
gear actuator selector. Long story short, the problem ended up being a
main gear actuator seal. Ended up eventually replacing all three gear actuators.
Problem solved. Great explanation that helped me figure this one out.
The tired old joke is that we fly these airplanes to see what needs to be fixed
next.
Warren Hill
N464TW
Mesa, AZ
On Jun 25, 2014, at 9:10 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
wrote:
> --> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Actually Keith, the gear selector in the YAK is something you really need to
know in detail. When I first got my 50, I noticed that the gear handle "had
a leak". I removed it from the aircraft, took it all apart, and there was not
a darn thing wrong with it. This was about 14 years ago.
>
> I reverse engineered every single air-line in that darn thing and finally figured
it out, which it today pretty much common knowledge.
>
> You're right about the port but it is important to know that the air you hear
venting is coming from the OPPOSITE SIDE of the actuators that you are trying
to pressurize. In other words, picture this: If you have an actuator and push
on it in one direction, the internal plunger is going to push air OUT the other
side! And that air has to go SOMEPLACE and that "someplace" is out the
vent you are talking about.
>
> So when you put the gear handle DOWN, air goes in and forces the actuators to
move. The air on the OPPOSITE side of that piston is then pushed out of the
actuator, up through the air lines, to the gear actuator and out the vent.
>
> An important things to realize about this.
>
> The actuators are internally sealed (in the YAK-50) with rubber Chevron Seals.
These can fail, meaning they will leak. This is of course a very bad thing
and needs to be corrected immediately. How do you know it is happening?
Because when the gear goes down (or up) and the handle is left in that position,
air pressure is constantly fed to the piston in the actuator. If the internal
seals leak, the air will come out the opposite side of the actuator, go up
the air-lines to the gear actuator handle and HISS out of the vent port constantly.
This can leak you to believe you have a bad gear actuator selector when
in fact you have a serious problem in your gear actuator(s)!
>
> So bottom line, if you hear air hissing out of the gear actuator lever in the
cockpit, do not immediately assume there is a leak in the gear selector, instead
check to see if it is coming out of the VENT in which case, suspect a leaking
gear actuator seal.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> keithmckinley
> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 9:30 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Pressure Problem
>
>
> The gear and flap selector valve has a small port that will vent air when the
selector is moved from one position to the other. I've had one of these selector
valves leak so bad through this port I could not build full pressure.
> If you have started playing with the ones in the rear cockpit you may start there.
>
> Mine was a CJ and I believe the selectors are the same in a Yak
>
> --------
> Keith McKinley
> 700HS
> X26 Sebastian, FL
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425447#425447
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Pressure Problem |
Mark,
Thanks. My A&P guy was able to identify the failed main gear actuator, but recommended
that we also replace the others as they were looking quite rough. Now
that its done Im glad we made this extra effort as the gear swing is a thing of
beauty. The plan is to rebuild the old ones and keep them on the shelf for the
other members of our group. We now have six CJs on the field and five of us
are in the same very large hanger, with lots of spare parts. To paraphrase it
sometimes takes a community to own a CJ.
All the best,
Warren
On Jul 16, 2014, at 8:02 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
wrote:
>
> Hi Warren, thanks for the feedback, and I am glad that you were able to use the
knowledge to good advantage! That said, sorry you had to replace all three
gear actuators! Holy Cow! On the other hand, you are probably a lot safer
now than you were before... and I am not talking "safety for the sake of safety"
I am talking about having a landing accident!
>
> Like your "old joke". I'll use that one!
>
> Take care and I hope it's quite a while before anything else decides it needs
to be fixed!
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Warren Hill
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 3:03 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Pressure Problem
>
>
> Mark,
>
> Wanted to thank you for the insights below. Had several episodes of an intermittent
in-flight gear up problem associated with loud hissing from the forward
cockpit gear actuator selector. Long story short, the problem ended up being
a main gear actuator seal. Ended up eventually replacing all three gear actuators.
Problem solved. Great explanation that helped me figure this one out.
>
> The tired old joke is that we fly these airplanes to see what needs to be fixed
next.
>
> Warren Hill
> N464TW
> Mesa, AZ
>
>
> On Jun 25, 2014, at 9:10 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
wrote:
>
>> --> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>> Actually Keith, the gear selector in the YAK is something you really need to
know in detail. When I first got my 50, I noticed that the gear handle "had
a leak". I removed it from the aircraft, took it all apart, and there was not
a darn thing wrong with it. This was about 14 years ago.
>>
>> I reverse engineered every single air-line in that darn thing and finally figured
it out, which it today pretty much common knowledge.
>>
>> You're right about the port but it is important to know that the air you hear
venting is coming from the OPPOSITE SIDE of the actuators that you are trying
to pressurize. In other words, picture this: If you have an actuator and push
on it in one direction, the internal plunger is going to push air OUT the
other side! And that air has to go SOMEPLACE and that "someplace" is out the
vent you are talking about.
>>
>> So when you put the gear handle DOWN, air goes in and forces the actuators to
move. The air on the OPPOSITE side of that piston is then pushed out of the
actuator, up through the air lines, to the gear actuator and out the vent.
>>
>> An important things to realize about this.
>>
>> The actuators are internally sealed (in the YAK-50) with rubber Chevron Seals.
These can fail, meaning they will leak. This is of course a very bad thing
and needs to be corrected immediately. How do you know it is happening?
Because when the gear goes down (or up) and the handle is left in that position,
air pressure is constantly fed to the piston in the actuator. If the internal
seals leak, the air will come out the opposite side of the actuator, go up
the air-lines to the gear actuator handle and HISS out of the vent port constantly.
This can leak you to believe you have a bad gear actuator selector when
in fact you have a serious problem in your gear actuator(s)!
>>
>> So bottom line, if you hear air hissing out of the gear actuator lever in the
cockpit, do not immediately assume there is a leak in the gear selector, instead
check to see if it is coming out of the VENT in which case, suspect a leaking
gear actuator seal.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> keithmckinley
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 9:30 AM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Pressure Problem
>>
>>
>> The gear and flap selector valve has a small port that will vent air when the
selector is moved from one position to the other. I've had one of these selector
valves leak so bad through this port I could not build full pressure.
>> If you have started playing with the ones in the rear cockpit you may start
there.
>>
>> Mine was a CJ and I believe the selectors are the same in a Yak
>>
>> --------
>> Keith McKinley
>> 700HS
>> X26 Sebastian, FL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425447#425447
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Warren E. Hill, MD, FACS
East Valley Ophthalmology
5620 East Broadway Road
Mesa, AZ 85206
hill@doctor-hill.com
www.doctor-hill.com
Message 4
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Next time I get a bad case of acme, I'll try to remember that.......
__________________________________________________________________
On Jul 16, 2014, at 7:34 AM, Jim wrote:
> This guy will be really glad to hear there is a cure for it...
>
> http://youtu.be/S2VXOd3uXh8
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: cjpilot710@aol.com
> Date:07/15/2014 12:08 PM (GMT-07:00)
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil
>
> It cures acme you know.
>
> In a message dated 7/15/2014 9:19:36 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jblake207@comcast.net writes:
> Use the MMO Ernie, but only if you wear a flight suit and helmet. :-)
JB
>
> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: "Yak-List" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 3:04:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil
>
> Thanks Pappy, Walt, Jan,
>
> I do remember having a lot more oil pour out of my exhaust during prop
pull thru, with the X/C.
>
> W120 it is then.
>
> Should I use MMO? Just kidding, :) No really, I'm just kidding.
>
> Ernie
>
> On Tuesday, July 15, 2014, Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be> wrote:
> Excellent Walt!
>
> Jan
>
> From: Walter Lannon <wlannon@shaw.ca>
> Date: Tuesday 15 July 2014 08:36
> To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil
>
> Hi Ernie;
>
> I would recommend that you stay with the Aeroshell W oils. Your
location does not experience severe temperature changes so W100 winter
and W120 summer should be just fine.
>
> With just one exception all of the approved aviation (piston) engine
oils are mineral oils. This includes the Phillips X/C 20W50 and 25W60.
As far as I know, the only difference (if you can refer to it as such)
between radial and opposed engine oils is the recommended viscosity.
There is no such thing as an aviation detergent oil (though I believe
there was, briefly, some 60 + years ago). There are three basic
varieties of aviation mineral oils. 1. No additives (straight) e.g: 100
SUS or 50 SAE. 2. An ashless dispersant additive (AD oils) e.g: W100/
W50. ( the W is used by Aeroshell & Phillips other companies may have
different designators)
> 3. Multi-Grade AD oils with a viscosity modifier added e.g:
Phillips X/C 25W60, Aeroshell 15W50. Both use SAE viscosity numbers
(60 SAE = 120 SUS).
>
> The exception referred to above is the Aeroshell multi-grade. It is a
50% synthetic. It appears to be a very good oil for relatively modern
opposed engines but I would not use it in any radial. Apparently it
has been improved over the years but:- I used it in an E225 Continental
years ago and found (compared to the previous W100) the oil pressure
dropped, oil temp. increased and, over time, it seeped right through
the crankcase! About the same time a friend put it in his Harvard
(R1340) and shortly after parked it for about 3 months. When he
returned there was no oil left.
>
> Personally I have been using 25W60 for some time in CJ=92s and
Harvard=92s primarily due to the seasonal temperature change ( '10C to
40C).
>
> Walt
>
>
> From: Ernest Martinez
> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 3:13 PM
> To: yak-list
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil
>
> I'm currently on Aeroshell W100. But I'm in Florida and wondering if
W120 would be better for the hot weather here. But I have to say that
this is one of the driest Housai motors I've seen.
>
> Ernie
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Jim <jim@jimivey.com> wrote:
> Ernie,
>
> You didn't specify if the Aeroshell your airplane has been using was
W100, W120 or a multi-grade . I use Aeroshell W120 and found it best
for my high temperature environment. Years ago I got smart and tried
multi-weight and even worse added Lenkite. The thing leaked out oil
like shit out of a Christmas goose. Went back to Aeroshell W120 and
haven't looked back.
>
> Even more important would be an engine (unlike yours) that had been
run on non-detergent mineral oil. A good way to die would be switching
from straight mineral oil to detergent oil (AD). I know somebody that
had a total catastrophic failure when he switched to AD oil and the
detergent did it's job and loosened up all the "sleeping" gunk and
deposits in the engine which plugged the oil system. Over Lake
Washington.
>
> It is never a good idea to switch horses midstream (say after 100SMOH
or so) when it comes to oil.
>
> Jim
>
>
> On 7/14/2014 1:37 PM, DaBear wrote:
> Ernie,
>
>
> I=92ve used the 25/60 multi-weight oil for both of my M14=92s and I
did switch from the 100W that the previous owner used to the 25w60 for
the Housai. That said, I wouldn=92t switch from 100W unless you really
had a reason. One thing with the 100w is that since many of the flat
engine airplanes use it, it is easier to find while travelling.
>
>
> Good luck with the new CJ
>
>
> Bear
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest
Martinez
> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 1:15 PM
> To: yak-list
> Subject: Yak-List: Oil
>
>
> In my previous CJ I used to use the Phillips 25/60 Radial Engine Oil
and was happy with it. My new plane has been running AeroShell all of
it's US life ( 12+ years) and it's a strong, very dry, motor thats
working just fine with excellent oil analysis trends.
>
>
> My first thought was to switch to the Phillips at next oil change, but
then my 2nd thought was "if it aint broke don't fix it".
>
>
> I was hoping to get some thoughts on this, since I'm not sure what
makes "Radial Engine Oil" any different than flat engine oil.
>
>
> Ernie
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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Roger E. Baker, Managing Director
Panadero Energy Components, LLC
dba PEC AirAssist
760/809-5506
760/730-9244
760/454-4595 fax
f4ffm2@roadrunner.com
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