Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:19 AM - Re: Re: MT Prop TBO (Richard Goode)
2. 05:25 AM - Re: M14P mixture adjustment? (Richard Goode)
3. 06:55 AM - Re: AirVenture '14 / Pneumatic Puzzle Solved? (Rico Jaeger)
4. 07:02 AM - Re: AirVenture '14 / Pneumatic Puzzle Solved? (Gary Gabbard)
5. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: MT Prop TBO (Shaun Dawson)
6. 07:09 AM - Re: M14P mixture adjustment? (DaBear)
7. 07:33 AM - Re: Re: MT Prop TBO (Chris Ober)
8. 08:05 AM - Yak18T air leak (Michael Wikstrom)
9. 08:31 AM - Re: Yak18T air leak (Olivier Vigneron)
10. 09:19 AM - Re: Re: MT Prop TBO (Richard Goode)
11. 09:23 AM - Re: M14P mixture adjustment? (Richard Goode)
12. 10:05 AM - Re: Re: MT Prop TBO (Chris Ober)
13. 10:19 AM - Re: M14P mixture adjustment? (DaBear)
14. 10:48 AM - Re: AirVenture '14 / Pneumatic Puzzle Solved? (Jan Mevis)
15. 11:19 AM - Re: Re: MT Prop TBO (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
16. 02:37 PM - Re: MT Prop TBO (Egon)
17. 03:57 PM - Re: V530TA-D35 Overhaul requirement (Steve Geard)
18. 04:05 PM - Re: Aerobatics Impacts on Props (Steve Geard)
19. 06:19 PM - Re: AirVenture '14 / Pneumatic Puzzle Solved? (Roger Kemp)
20. 07:02 PM - Re: Re: Aerobatics Impacts on Props (Shaun Dawson)
21. 07:31 PM - Re: Re: Aerobatics Impacts on Props (Roger Kemp)
22. 09:17 PM - Looking for a flight in NZ (Joe)
23. 09:55 PM - Re: M14P mixture adjustment? (Todd McCutchan)
24. 10:15 PM - Re: Re: MT Prop TBO (Richard Goode)
25. 10:17 PM - Re: Re: MT Prop TBO (Richard Goode)
26. 10:21 PM - Re: Re: MT Prop TBO (Richard Goode)
27. 10:27 PM - Re: M14P mixture adjustment? (Richard Goode)
Message 1
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I will try to set some issues straight:
To make my position clear, I am biased in favour of MT props, firstly
because I sell them and secondly because I really believe they are good. For
me a really important aspect is that they are fully certificated and if you
have had, like me, a propeller failure on a "experimental" propeller you
certainly would never want to have it again!
Then, MT will overhaul any prop of theirs, however old or however much
beyond the TBO.
In terms of the Russian MT props, the situation is simply that MT gave a
licence to Speriot in Russia to make MTV-9 props, on the basis that they
would be given a certain royalty for each propeller produced. In the event,
the Russians only declared every second? third? Propeller that they made, so
clearly saved a huge amount on royalty fees! It took MT a while to realise
what was happening since these Russian props with serial numbers that had
never been declared to MT started coming back to the factory or MT overseas
agents for overhaul.
So MT decided to "black" all these Russian props, which simply means that
you cannot get them overhauled, and since the Russian factory is no longer
in business, owners of these props will end up with quite expensive
ornaments. Because of our relationship with MT they have allowed us to buy
some of these Russian props that they themselves have bought in, but
strictly for non-aviation use, and we have made a number of "wind machines"
with these props and M 14 P engines for film studios.
I have heard excellent reports of the Whirlwind propellers, but I will
always have the basic concern about the lack of certification and the test
program that this implies. Yurgis Kairis had a catastrophic failure when an
entire blade departed from his Whirlwind on his Sukhoi 31. The forces tore
the gearbox from the crankcase; broke most of the engine mounts and a lot of
other frame tubes. Fortunately he was at low altitude with a long runway
ahead. Having said that, I am sure that appropriate modifications were
subsequently made.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 8:17 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: MT Prop TBO
When MT blades are overhauled they are only done in Germany from what I
understand. The blades are stripped, inspected, repaired, re-glassed,
painted and a new stainless edge is installed and your time starts over..
The Hub can be overhauled in the states and all service bulletins are
complied with and there are some of those. At overhaul all the seals ,
bolts and basically anything that get wear or tightened is replaced.
I got the distinct impression that if you needed a repair after TBO that
would not happen per a agreement with MT. Same as the Russian MT , No
Service at all on those. Someone can correct me but that is what I ran
into.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427994#427994
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Message 2
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| Subject: | M14P mixture adjustment? |
Again, this does come back to the issue of the compensating (the Russians
call them suction jets) jets in the carburettor.
They go in sizes from 1.1 mm up to 2.1 mm, although midway in this range is
of course most common. As a "compensating" jet a larger jet results in a
leaner mixture and vice versa. They make a huge difference to CHT, and
should be changed so that the engine will remain just within the yellow on a
long climb out on a hot day. Indeed, if the engine is running too cool, the
jet is too small and you're wasting fuel.
Many owners change the jets between summer and winter which makes a lot of
sense.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaBear
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 1:04 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
I have not, both have been working fine for 3+ years. Also, I doubt that
both would have gone bad. Since the delta between them hasn't changed in 2
years, I can't see that it is both probes.
I'm not the only one I've heard with the issue. I know of at least 2 others
that run their M14PF (in a TW and a 52), get med-high CHTs, but the Oil
temps are low.
However, I'll figure out a way to check them, just to be sure. That is why
I asked it here.
Thanks,
Bear
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 12:24 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Bear,
Have you checked the calibration on your oil temp sending probe?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaBear
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2014 3:46 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
I wanted to get back to you Mark, Thanks for your thoughts, I didn't know
that about the flat engines. As to engine temps, however I'm not seeing
the same thing.
I understand what you are saying regarding very RICH engines. However, I'm
NOT having any problem seeing CHT's at 380-400 deg F (M14p manual says
428degF max continuous CHT temp) at level cruise. If I'm not careful, the
chts can rise fast on climb out. The engine gets warm enough. I'm seeing
OIL temp rise through engine of 25-26C but typically in cruise still only
see 124 deg F oil temp and that is with CHTs at 380-390 deg F. I really
wouldn't want to run the M14P at 400-428 deg F even though the book says its
ok.
So why the low OIL temps when CHT's are in the normal range?
I typically run at 2400RPM and full throttle on climb, 2400RPM and an inch
back from full throttle for everything else.
Bear
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 6:31 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Bear,
Regarding your design premises for flat engines, keep in mind this is only
true for those with a wet sump. For those with a dry sump, which is a
whole lot of them, such as the GSO-480 series for example, they too have an
external oil tank where most of the oil is outside of the engine case.
Just something to keep in mind. I also fly a UTVA-66 with a dry sump
GSO-480 with an auto-mixture adjust pressure carb. I can control EGT, and
thus CHT and oil temp with a simple push of the throttle by a VAST amount.
If I keep RPM up high (3200 or so) and pull the throttle back to say 38
inches (this is a blown engine remember, with max manifold of 48 inches), I
can run the EGT's right up into the danger area in seconds. I control CHT
and Oil Temp with the throttle... and that was an interesting lesson to
learn believe me.
I do not have the external temperature equipment that you have on my M-14P.
That said, oil temperature in M-14 engines flying aerobatics using the
standard probe locations and standard stock instrumentation has ALWAYS been
an issue (meaning they tend to run very high), and many attempts have been
made to address this in all models, such as cooler relocation, bigger
coolers, wing root changes to add the oil cooler there, etc.
Personally, my YAK-50 in hot weather will run the oil temp right into the
red if you let it. Such as on an extended climb. This is true for every
YAK and Sukhoi I have ever dealt with.
So your statement that the oil runs so cool as to not even boil off the
water runs counter to every single experience I have had with these engines.
The only time I have seen anything near to what you are talking about is
when the engines are run WAY WAY RICH. The amount of fuel you dump into
this engine makes a HUGE HUGE difference on engine temperature very much the
same as the UTVA-66. And the carbs between the two are very similar in the
way they work.
For my airplane, speed is the main issue. If I run high power settings in
the summer, I have to push the nose over and get some speed to get the oil
temp down. However, I am climbing at 85% or HIGHER at full throttle.
Yeah, I know a lot of folks like to baby these engines and that is fine, but
I have found them to run better when I push them hard. So far .....at over
800 hours, the only engine issues I have had were with leaded up exhaust
valves and that is when I was trying to be ever so careful with the engine.
Of course MMO fixed all that ....... but I think personally it was because I
started running the engine a lot harder and kept it hot. That opinion and 2
cents might buy you a glass of water, however that is what I do, and it
works for me. As for anyone else.... you're on your own. :-)
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] on behalf of DaBear
[dabear@damned.org]
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 3:40 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
Disclaimer NOTE: I'm just typing while my mind thinks, this is my opinion,
not an opinion of an expert. Although, I AM an expert ON my opinions. :)
In the flat engines, the oil is mostly in the engine and a little is in
cooler. In the CJ and Yak oil is mostly in the oil tank, with a little in
the engine and a little in the oil cooler. Therefore, the system has lower
temp oil overall through the process. It could be that the temp probe for
the flat engine is in the engine or on the outlet side. I couldn't get the
outlet side oil temps anywhere near 240DegF.
Also interesting is that in these engines, Housai, M14P and now my M14PF, it
has been extremely difficult to impossible to get the oil temp on the
outbound side of the engine up to 212deg F to "boil off" any
water/condensation from the oil. The oil temps in the system tend to run
cold even in the heat of summer. For example, running a week or so ago with
OAT around 90DegF, Altitude around 2-3k feet, airspeed at 145-150kts, power
at max continuous, oil inlet temps were 124degF with oil cooler door closed.
Oil outlet only got to 170degF. The oil cooler was changed (New) as of 800
hours ago, so it is warn. I'm running 25w60 . Climb up to 9-12k of
altitude and power back a little and its hard to keep the oil temps above
115degF
For people running the M14P and PF in the summer. What are you seeing for
CHT temps on initial take off, cruise, climb? What are the power settings
you are using when seeing these tempts?
Bear
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd McCutchan
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
Max sustain 167 F and max 15 min is 185 F vs my recommended 170 F and max
continuous 240 F.
That seeks like a big difference.
Is it due to Russian oil or radial engine?
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd@fastaircraft.com<mailto:todd@fastaircraft.com>
www.fastaircraft.com<http://www.fastaircraft.com/>
On Jul 9, 2014, at 10:06 AM, Robin Hou
<rmhou@yahoo.com<mailto:rmhou@yahoo.com>> wrote:
Bear's listed oil temps are the recommended minimum, not maximum. The format
makes the "Min" easy to miss.
On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:00 AM, Todd McCutchan
<todd@fastaircraft.com<mailto:todd@fastaircraft.com>> wrote:
Why are oil temps so much lower than flat six engines? Is this a radial
difference or a Russian oil difference?
On my IO-520 in my T-34 max oil is 240 F with 170 recommended.
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd@fastaircraft.com<mailto:todd@fastaircraft.com>
www.fastaircraft.com<http://www.fastaircraft.com/>
On Jul 9, 2014, at 9:12 AM, "DaBear"
<dabear@damned.org<mailto:dabear@damned.org>> wrote:
Just a reminder about Oil and CHT Temps ... here is the info from the M14P
manual.
Oil Temps
Engine Inlet
C
C
F
F
Recommended
50
65
122
149
Min Permissible
40
104
Max Sustain
75
167
Max 15 Min
85
185
Max Delta in/Out
50
122
32
CHT
32
Recommended
140
190
284
374
Min
120
248
Min Prolonged
140
284
Max Prolonged
220
428
Max 15 Min
240
464
That is the recommendation from the folks that built the M14P. I recommend
keeping CHTs well below 400 for engine life. But operation is up to you.
Bear
From:
owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.c
om> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
om> Goode
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 9:05 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
200 is acceptable in the climb, but I would not want more than that. In
passing, the temperature senders on the sparking plugs are not that
accurate, and it is worth cleaning them and the seat on the cylinder well,
and also, possibly, moving the sender to another cylinder to check.
You refer to a "bleed jet" - to avoid confusion the Russian manual calls it
a suction jet. It is made in sizes of 1.3 mm to 2.0 mm, and by virtue of
being a compensating jet a smaller jet richens the mixture. It affects the
engine at medium and full power settings but not at idle. It does make a big
difference to cylinder head temperatures, and indeed to fuel consumption. We
recommend to owners to change the jets between summer and winter, and to use
the biggest jet that is compatible with engine temperatures being
acceptable.
I don't understand what you mean by the jets being "in series". There is
only one.
Changing them is easy, and the jet has its size stamped in very small
letters on the end.
We have stocks of all the commonly used sizes.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com<http://www.russianaeros.com/>
From:
owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.c
om> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
om> Painter
Sent: 09 July 2014 12:06
Subject: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
Got a Yak-18T that shows head temps of 200 gage on initial climb. Seems a
bit high tho it cools down at cruise power. Have not yet verified gage
accuracy. Am wondering if its running a bit lean. I don't see a full power
enrichment circuit in the carburetor dwgs or any adjustment other than bleed
air jets (apparently in series which makes no sense) in the main circuit
plus an adjustment on the AMC diaphragm rod. So I have a few questions: 1)
does anyone have bleed air jet sets for sale? 2) are the jets actually in
series? 3) Do the jets affect the idle, main or full power circuits? How do
you establish a baseline in order to evaluate changes made to the mixture
short of a flow bench?
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
FlyWBA@gmail.com<mailto:FlyWBA@gmail.com>
FlyWBA.com<http://flywba.com/>
425-876-0865
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Subject: | AirVenture '14 / Pneumatic Puzzle Solved? |
Jan - Thank you for the "thanks!" 'Glad to share!
Jeff - My "Buck Fifty" is serial'd as 62658...so I think that makes the air
frames more like 3rd cousins... :)
Doc - You guys don't miss much. Opening the filter canister was a chapter i
n itself. Did you guys read anything lately about the Central WI EAA Chapte
r finishing Paul Poberezny's last project - a Baby Ace that he started the
Fall before his passing? (This was in an effort to get it to Paul's Tribute
at OSH - which they did) Well=2C that project and EAA Chapter are both bas
ed at my airport - Wausau Downtown Airport (AUW). Like most active airports
=2C there is one central hangar where the atmosphere (read that as the best
tools=2C refreshments=2C bakery=2C photographic tributes to the female for
m and healthy doses of "ribbing" balanced by genuine invaluable assistance)
is just - for some reason - conducive to being a natural hub of activity.
The 6 - 10 guys who burnt the midnight oil to finish the Baby Ace in time f
or AirVenture are mostly key players in the local aviation community...mach
inists=2C hobbyist engineers=2C wood workers=2C builders=2C mechanics / A&P
s=2C etc. While I put some time in on the "Sweetheart Project" Baby Ace als
o=2C they were well-aware I had my own personal deadlines drawing near: nam
ely putting the Yak on the EAA Warbird field. The Sunday I pulled the air c
leaner canister off my firewall=2C I tinkered for a bit in my hangar w/ zer
o success. So...I walked the 100 yards over to Rick's. As was the routine l
ately=2C the majority of the "super team" was busy bending metal on the Ace
. After a bit of catching up=2C I hit the work bench. When they noticed me
struggling (read THAT as "cursing profusely" and bleeding from multiple lac
erations) they became curious. Soon enough I had an audience. Predictably
=2C they started offering advice. I came back with "tried that - didn't wor
k" and "won't work - here's why" etc. When I said I was gonna run back to m
y hangar to grab more 22 mm sockets / wrenches=2C one of them said "Mind if
I try?" NOT AT ALL! As I walked out the door to spring back to my humble "
shop=2C" I was both elated and a tad embarrassed that I'd had to pull a "Da
d=2C can you get this?" Yet=2C I knew I was in great hands. Imagine my amaz
ement (and slight satisfaction) when I returned 15 minutes later to find AL
L of them gathered around the canister on the bench - which was still seale
d up TIGHT! They were staring at it like it just crashed through the hangar
roof. Well=2C to make a long story slightly shorter=2C we ended up making
a custom vice "cradle" to both support and lock up the lower body of the ca
nister so that there was absolutely no "give" to it whatsoever. Then with a
little heat=2C a 6-point quality=2C shallow socket and a 6' steel tube for
leverage...VOILA! The top released w/ an audible "crack." I had to laugh w
hen all of them cautiously peered inside like something was about to leap o
ut and attack. "THAT'S IT?!?" was their reaction to the element.
Yup. That was it.
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau=2C WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1966 Cessna 150F ^/---//-X
N8558G //
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
Subject: Re: Yak-List: AirVenture '14 / Pneumatic Puzzle Solved?
From: jan.mevis@informavia.be
Thanks for sharing!
From: Rico Jaeger <rocknpilot@hotmail.com>
" <yak52rs@nnex.net>
Subject: Yak-List: AirVenture '14 / Pneumatic Puzzle Solved?
Hi=2C All!
I just wanted to send out a big THANK YOU to all who stopped-by to introduc
e themselves / chat at OSH. Having a Warbird on the field at EAA was the re
alization of a lifelong dream for me - made even better by some great peopl
e pulling me into their circles. Redstar representation was respectable in
the air and on the ground=2C AEROSTARS ROCKED THE HOUSE (as usual) and I wa
s very proud to be (remotely) associated w/ it all!
For those of you who followed my many pneumatic trials and tribulations=2C
I believe I have finally found the answer. If you are able to recall=2C I b
rought my Yak home on a trailer from New Jersey to Central WI in November
=2C 2011. It had suffered a substantial engine fire. I believed at the time
I had purchased a firewall-back project and I would now need to find a sui
table FWF. But when we started cleaning it up=2C things looked more promisi
ng than we'd originally thought. Compression was solid and after a carb=2C
oil / fuel pump rebuild=2C ignition upgrade and all new hoses and wiring=2C
we had our 1st successful engine run on Easter Sunday=2C 2012. A few month
s later the plane was test flown by 2 local Yak pilots who said the pneumat
ic system was not meeting operational needs. After cleaning the fittings an
d de-gunking as much as possible=2C there was still no noticeable recharge
on ground-runs. I replaced the compressor w/ a recently rebuilt unit I purc
hased from a private party. After 1:40 of flight time=2C the compressor des
troyed itself. It sheared the four (4) studs that hold the compressor cylin
der to the base - and sent a snowfall of magnesium shavings into my oil sys
tem - as well as "painted" the entire right wing root and fuselage in oil.
We landed without incident. Convinced I had bought a bad compressor=2C I se
nt my original out to be rebuilt. After an oil change and screen-check=2C w
e fired up again and that compressor failed after 40 minutes of flight time
. We again had a safe landing. Same thing: the cylinder separated from the
base - actually shearing the studs - and there were magnesium shavings ever
ywhere=2C oil bath=2C etc. This time the compressor blew off the top segmen
t that retains the filter=2C as well as ripped through the safety wire hold
ing the output fittings and these parts were ejected and lost in flight. Th
ese were signs of a very violent demise. I sent out both compressors and th
ere were enough good parts to build one (1) functional compressor. I also s
ent out the shear coupling and "crucifix" off the firewall to verify the in
tegrity of the check valves=2C pop-off valve and air filter. Upon its retur
n=2C I re-installed it all and ran it on the ground=2C and it also started
to come apart. The cylinder had - once again - began to separate from the b
ase of the compressor. Although we caught it early=2C on the ground=2C and
this time the hold-down nuts had only begun to de-thread. I sent out that c
ompressor and it was reassembled and deemed airworthy. This time I also rep
laced the drive gear and shear coupling - thinking maybe there was some bad
geometry there - seeing as how there had been a fire and all - and the pri
or wrenching on the aircraft seemed both minimal and questionable. After a
few ground runs=2C the compressor held up - but there was no evidence of th
e air recharging. Once again=2C I started pulling air lines to confirm clea
r passage. All were good and there was no sign of any cracks=2C etc. I pull
ed the compressor AGAIN (Sadly - I have this routine DOWN!) to verify that
the shear coupling was intact. It was. There was no sign of any "hydro-lock
" - the popular analysis from many. There was no sign of oil starvation - t
he 2nd most popular off-site diagnosis. I then went through all the firewal
l components. The LAST item I pulled off and checked was the in-line air fi
lter at the bottom of the firewall cluster. The dime-sized "wafer" element
contained within was 100% blocked shut with an oily=2C rigid=2C carbon depo
sit. No air was capable of passing through it. For those unfamiliar w/ the
system=2C this filter is THE filter for the pneumatic system. It would appe
ar my Yak had suffered a "stroke." I pulled the element and temporarily re-
installed the filter housing. Upon run-up=2C there was an immediately notic
eable movement of the air gauge - the system was charging. I installed a ne
w element. Where as before=2C I never exceeded 1:40 of run time without the
compressor committing suicide=2C now - after 39 hours of issue-free run /
flight time=2C I feel reasonably safe in saying this was likely the cause o
f my many problems...a $17 air filter element. I believe it was constricted
when the plane came home. So some air was passing. And as the constriction
tightened=2C so did the life expectancy of the compressor diminish.
In sharing this info w/ a few other owners=2C the feedback was about a 70/3
0 split between "congrats" and "there's no way that was the problem." All I
can offer is my compressor finally seems content to both take off AND land
w/ the rest of the aircraft. I submit this info to the list in a humble at
tempt to possibly aid anyone encountering similar frustrations and consider
able cost. I am not in the league of many who truly "know" these planes - b
ut I have learned much simply through asking=2C experimenting and determina
tion. I was told several times by very qualified parties=2C "You are screwi
ng something up." I wish it had been that simple. I would've happily eaten
crow to abbreviate this nearly 2-year=2C expensive and frustrating trouble-
shooting journey. But suffice to say=2C I am THRILLED it would appear I fin
ally have a functional aircraft. Parking N21YK in Warbirds at OSH was a per
sonal victory that I would be hard-pressed to adequately put into words. It
was a wonderful experience to - at last - NOT be looking in from the outsi
de.
Next quest: FAST CARD! :)
Cheers=2C Y'all!
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau=2C WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1966 Cessna 150F ^/---//-X
N8558G //
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
=0A
=0A
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List=0A
com=0A
ronics.com/contribution=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
=0A
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: AirVenture '14 / Pneumatic Puzzle Solved? |
Good Fellowship.
Gary. LAS. CJ N22YK
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 5, 2014, at 6:53, Rico Jaeger <rocknpilot@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Jan - Thank you for the "thanks!" 'Glad to share!
>
> Jeff - My "Buck Fifty" is serial'd as 62658...so I think that makes the ai
rframes more like 3rd cousins... :)
>
> Doc - You guys don't miss much. Opening the filter canister was a chapter i
n itself. Did you guys read anything lately about the Central WI EAA Chapter
finishing Paul Poberezny's last project - a Baby Ace that he started the Fa
ll before his passing? (This was in an effort to get it to Paul's Tribute at
OSH - which they did) Well, that project and EAA Chapter are both based at m
y airport - Wausau Downtown Airport (AUW). Like most active airports, there i
s one central hangar where the atmosphere (read that as the best tools, refr
eshments, bakery, photographic tributes to the female form and healthy doses
of "ribbing" balanced by genuine invaluable assistance) is just - for some r
eason - conducive to being a natural hub of activity. The 6 - 10 guys who bu
rnt the midnight oil to finish the Baby Ace in time for AirVenture are mostl
y key players in the local aviation community...machinists, hobbyist enginee
rs, wood workers, builders, mechanics / A&Ps, etc. While I put some time in o
n the "Sweetheart Project" Baby Ace also, they were well-aware I had my own p
ersonal deadlines drawing near: namely putting the Yak on the EAA Warbird fi
eld. The Sunday I pulled the air cleaner canister off my firewall, I tinkere
d for a bit in my hangar w/ zero success. So...I walked the 100 yards over t
o Rick's. As was the routine lately, the majority of the "super team" was bu
sy bending metal on the Ace. After a bit of catching up, I hit the work benc
h. When they noticed me struggling (read THAT as "cursing profusely" and ble
eding from multiple lacerations) they became curious. Soon enough I had an a
udience. Predictably, they started offering advice. I came back with "tried t
hat - didn't work" and "won't work - here's why" etc. When I said I was gonn
a run back to my hangar to grab more 22 mm sockets / wrenches, one of them s
aid "Mind if I try?" NOT AT ALL! As I walked out the door to spring back to m
y humble "shop," I was both elated and a tad embarrassed that I'd had to pul
l a "Dad, can you get this?" Yet, I knew I was in great hands. Imagine my am
azement (and slight satisfaction) when I returned 15 minutes later to find A
LL of them gathered around the canister on the bench - which was still seale
d up TIGHT! They were staring at it like it just crashed through the hangar r
oof. Well, to make a long story slightly shorter, we ended up making a custo
m vice "cradle" to both support and lock up the lower body of the canister s
o that there was absolutely no "give" to it whatsoever. Then with a little h
eat, a 6-point quality, shallow socket and a 6' steel tube for leverage...VO
ILA! The top released w/ an audible "crack." I had to laugh when all of them
cautiously peered inside like something was about to leap out and attack. "
THAT'S IT?!?" was their reaction to the element.
>
> Yup. That was it.
>
> Rico Jaeger
> 915 S. 11th Ave.
> Wausau, WI. 54401
> 715.529.7426
> //
> 1966 Cessna 150F ^/---//-X
> N8558G //
> //
> 1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
> N21YK //
>
>
>
>
> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 08:28:39 +0200
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: AirVenture '14 / Pneumatic Puzzle Solved?
> From: jan.mevis@informavia.be
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
> Thanks for sharing!
>
> From: Rico Jaeger <rocknpilot@hotmail.com>
> Date: Monday 4 August 2014 20:35
> To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>, "yak52rs@nnex.net" <
yak52rs@nnex.net>
> Subject: Yak-List: AirVenture '14 / Pneumatic Puzzle Solved?
>
> Hi, All!
>
> I just wanted to send out a big THANK YOU to all who stopped-by to introdu
ce themselves / chat at OSH. Having a Warbird on the field at EAA was the re
alization of a lifelong dream for me - made even better by some great people
pulling me into their circles. Redstar representation was respectable in th
e air and on the ground, AEROSTARS ROCKED THE HOUSE (as usual) and I was ver
y proud to be (remotely) associated w/ it all!
>
> For those of you who followed my many pneumatic trials and tribulations, I
believe I have finally found the answer. If you are able to recall, I broug
ht my Yak home on a trailer from New Jersey to Central WI in November, 2011.
It had suffered a substantial engine fire. I believed at the time I had pur
chased a firewall-back project and I would now need to find a suitable FWF. B
ut when we started cleaning it up, things looked more promising than we'd or
iginally thought. Compression was solid and after a carb, oil / fuel pump re
build, ignition upgrade and all new hoses and wiring, we had our 1st success
ful engine run on Easter Sunday, 2012. A few months later the plane was test
flown by 2 local Yak pilots who said the pneumatic system was not meeting o
perational needs. After cleaning the fittings and de-gunking as much as poss
ible, there was still no noticeable recharge on ground-runs. I replaced the c
ompressor w/ a recently rebuilt unit I purchased from a private party. After
1:40 of flight time, the compressor destroyed itself. It sheared the four (
4) studs that hold the compressor cylinder to the base - and sent a snowfall
of magnesium shavings into my oil system - as well as "painted" the entire r
ight wing root and fuselage in oil. We landed without incident. Convinced I h
ad bought a bad compressor, I sent my original out to be rebuilt. After an o
il change and screen-check, we fired up again and that compressor failed aft
er 40 minutes of flight time. We again had a safe landing. Same thing: the c
ylinder separated from the base - actually shearing the studs - and there we
re magnesium shavings everywhere, oil bath, etc. This time the compressor bl
ew off the top segment that retains the filter, as well as ripped through th
e safety wire holding the output fittings and these parts were ejected and l
ost in flight. These were signs of a very violent demise. I sent out both co
mpressors and there were enough good parts to build one (1) functional compr
essor. I also sent out the shear coupling and "crucifix" off the firewall to
verify the integrity of the check valves, pop-off valve and air filter. Upo
n its return, I re-installed it all and ran it on the ground, and it also st
arted to come apart. The cylinder had - once again - began to separate from t
he base of the compressor. Although we caught it early, on the ground, and t
his time the hold-down nuts had only begun to de-thread. I sent out that com
pressor and it was reassembled and deemed airworthy. This time I also replac
ed the drive gear and shear coupling - thinking maybe there was some bad geo
metry there - seeing as how there had been a fire and all - and the prior wr
enching on the aircraft seemed both minimal and questionable. After a few gr
ound runs, the compressor held up - but there was no evidence of the air rec
harging. Once again, I started pulling air lines to confirm clear passage. A
ll were good and there was no sign of any cracks, etc. I pulled the compress
or AGAIN (Sadly - I have this routine DOWN!) to verify that the shear coupli
ng was intact. It was. There was no sign of any "hydro-lock" - the popular a
nalysis from many. There was no sign of oil starvation - the 2nd most popula
r off-site diagnosis. I then went through all the firewall components. The L
AST item I pulled off and checked was the in-line air filter at the bottom o
f the firewall cluster. The dime-sized "wafer" element contained within was 1
00% blocked shut with an oily, rigid, carbon deposit. No air was capable of p
assing through it. For those unfamiliar w/ the system, this filter is THE fi
lter for the pneumatic system. It would appear my Yak had suffered a "stroke
." I pulled the element and temporarily re-installed the filter housing. Upo
n run-up, there was an immediately noticeable movement of the air gauge - th
e system was charging. I installed a new element. Where as before, I never e
xceeded 1:40 of run time without the compressor committing suicide, now - af
ter 39 hours of issue-free run / flight time, I feel reasonably safe in sayi
ng this was likely the cause of my many problems...a $17 air filter element.
I believe it was constricted when the plane came home. So some air was pass
ing. And as the constriction tightened, so did the life expectancy of the co
mpressor diminish.
>
> In sharing this info w/ a few other owners, the feedback was about a 70/30
split between "congrats" and "there's no way that was the problem." All I c
an offer is my compressor finally seems content to both take off AND land w/
the rest of the aircraft. I submit this info to the list in a humble attemp
t to possibly aid anyone encountering similar frustrations and considerable c
ost. I am not in the league of many who truly "know" these planes - but I ha
ve learned much simply through asking, experimenting and determination. I wa
s told several times by very qualified parties, "You are screwing something u
p." I wish it had been that simple. I would've happily eaten crow to abbrevi
ate this nearly 2-year, expensive and frustrating trouble-shooting journey. B
ut suffice to say, I am THRILLED it would appear I finally have a functional
aircraft. Parking N21YK in Warbirds at OSH was a personal victory that I wo
uld be hard-pressed to adequately put into words. It was a wonderful experie
nce to - at last - NOT be looking in from the outside.
>
> Next quest: FAST CARD! :)
>
> Cheers, Y'all!
>
> Rico Jaeger
> 915 S. 11th Ave.
> Wausau, WI. 54401
> 715.529.7426
> //
> 1966 Cessna 150F ^/---//-X
> N8558G //
> //
> 1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
> N21YK //
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> com
> ronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> ==========
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
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>
Message 5
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I sort of see the logic in blacklisting the Russian MT props because of the
licensing issue, but at this point all that does is punish end consumers
who didn't know any better. That's too bad. Plus, they are leaving money
on the table. If I were in that situation, with a useless MT prop because
it was Russian and beyond TBO, I'd be livid, and there's no chance that I'd
go back and pet the dog that bit me. I'd end up going Whirlwind.
They be well suited to put together a program that would allow for overhaul
of those props. Perhaps charge enough to cover the license fee? I'm sure
the real scenario is more complicated than that, though...
Shaun
On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 5:18 AM, Richard Goode <
richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
> richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
>
> I will try to set some issues straight:
>
> To make my position clear, I am biased in favour of MT props, firstly
> because I sell them and secondly because I really believe they are good.
> For
> me a really important aspect is that they are fully certificated and if y
ou
> have had, like me, a propeller failure on a "experimental" propeller you
> certainly would never want to have it again!
>
> Then, MT will overhaul any prop of theirs, however old or however much
> beyond the TBO.
>
> In terms of the Russian MT props, the situation is simply that MT gave a
> licence to Speriot in Russia to make MTV-9 props, on the basis that they
> would be given a certain royalty for each propeller produced. In the even
t,
> the Russians only declared every second? third? Propeller that they made,
> so
> clearly saved a huge amount on royalty fees! It took MT a while to realis
e
> what was happening since these Russian props with serial numbers that had
> never been declared to MT started coming back to the factory or MT overse
as
> agents for overhaul.
>
> So MT decided to "black" all these Russian props, which simply means that
> you cannot get them overhauled, and since the Russian factory is no longe
r
> in business, owners of these props will end up with quite expensive
> ornaments. Because of our relationship with MT they have allowed us to bu
y
> some of these Russian props that they themselves have bought in, but
> strictly for non-aviation use, and we have made a number of "wind machine
s"
> with these props and M 14 P engines for film studios.
>
> I have heard excellent reports of the Whirlwind propellers, but I will
> always have the basic concern about the lack of certification and the tes
t
> program that this implies. Yurgis Kairis had a catastrophic failure when
an
> entire blade departed from his Whirlwind on his Sukhoi 31. The forces tor
e
> the gearbox from the crankcase; broke most of the engine mounts and a lot
> of
> other frame tubes. Fortunately he was at low altitude with a long runway
> ahead. Having said that, I am sure that appropriate modifications were
> subsequently made.
>
> Richard Goode
>
> Rhodds Farm
> Lyonshall
> Hereford
> HR5 3LW
> United Kingdom
> Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
> www.russianaeros.com
> I=99m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local
phone is
> +94 779 132 160.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 8:17 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: MT Prop TBO
>
>
> When MT blades are overhauled they are only done in Germany from what I
> understand. The blades are stripped, inspected, repaired, re-glassed,
> painted and a new stainless edge is installed and your time starts over..
> The Hub can be overhauled in the states and all service bulletins are
> complied with and there are some of those. At overhaul all the seals ,
> bolts and basically anything that get wear or tightened is replaced.
> I got the distinct impression that if you needed a repair after TBO that
> would not happen per a agreement with MT. Same as the Russian MT , No
> Service at all on those. Someone can correct me but that is what I ran
> into.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427994#427994
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by
> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
>
>
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>
Message 6
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| Subject: | M14P mixture adjustment? |
Richard,
My English may be a bit rusty, so I'm not sure I'm getting the point. :-)
1. is the top of the yellow (428 deg F / 220 deg C) or (464 deg F /240 deg
C) ??
2. If the CHT is at the top of the green (400 deg F/ 200 deg C), shouldn't
the Oil temp be well into the green and not the bottom (122 deg F / 50 deg
C)???
Just trying to understand....
Bear
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 8:24 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
--> <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
Again, this does come back to the issue of the compensating (the Russians
call them suction jets) jets in the carburettor.
They go in sizes from 1.1 mm up to 2.1 mm, although midway in this range is
of course most common. As a "compensating" jet a larger jet results in a
leaner mixture and vice versa. They make a huge difference to CHT, and
should be changed so that the engine will remain just within the yellow on a
long climb out on a hot day. Indeed, if the engine is running too cool, the
jet is too small and you're wasting fuel.
Many owners change the jets between summer and winter which makes a lot of
sense.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaBear
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 1:04 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
I have not, both have been working fine for 3+ years. Also, I doubt that
both would have gone bad. Since the delta between them hasn't changed in 2
years, I can't see that it is both probes.
I'm not the only one I've heard with the issue. I know of at least 2 others
that run their M14PF (in a TW and a 52), get med-high CHTs, but the Oil
temps are low.
However, I'll figure out a way to check them, just to be sure. That is why
I asked it here.
Thanks,
Bear
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 12:24 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Bear,
Have you checked the calibration on your oil temp sending probe?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaBear
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2014 3:46 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
I wanted to get back to you Mark, Thanks for your thoughts, I didn't know
that about the flat engines. As to engine temps, however I'm not seeing
the same thing.
I understand what you are saying regarding very RICH engines. However, I'm
NOT having any problem seeing CHT's at 380-400 deg F (M14p manual says
428degF max continuous CHT temp) at level cruise. If I'm not careful, the
chts can rise fast on climb out. The engine gets warm enough. I'm seeing
OIL temp rise through engine of 25-26C but typically in cruise still only
see 124 deg F oil temp and that is with CHTs at 380-390 deg F. I really
wouldn't want to run the M14P at 400-428 deg F even though the book says its
ok.
So why the low OIL temps when CHT's are in the normal range?
I typically run at 2400RPM and full throttle on climb, 2400RPM and an inch
back from full throttle for everything else.
Bear
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 6:31 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Bear,
Regarding your design premises for flat engines, keep in mind this is only
true for those with a wet sump. For those with a dry sump, which is a
whole lot of them, such as the GSO-480 series for example, they too have an
external oil tank where most of the oil is outside of the engine case.
Just something to keep in mind. I also fly a UTVA-66 with a dry sump
GSO-480 with an auto-mixture adjust pressure carb. I can control EGT, and
thus CHT and oil temp with a simple push of the throttle by a VAST amount.
If I keep RPM up high (3200 or so) and pull the throttle back to say 38
inches (this is a blown engine remember, with max manifold of 48 inches), I
can run the EGT's right up into the danger area in seconds. I control CHT
and Oil Temp with the throttle... and that was an interesting lesson to
learn believe me.
I do not have the external temperature equipment that you have on my M-14P.
That said, oil temperature in M-14 engines flying aerobatics using the
standard probe locations and standard stock instrumentation has ALWAYS been
an issue (meaning they tend to run very high), and many attempts have been
made to address this in all models, such as cooler relocation, bigger
coolers, wing root changes to add the oil cooler there, etc.
Personally, my YAK-50 in hot weather will run the oil temp right into the
red if you let it. Such as on an extended climb. This is true for every
YAK and Sukhoi I have ever dealt with.
So your statement that the oil runs so cool as to not even boil off the
water runs counter to every single experience I have had with these engines.
The only time I have seen anything near to what you are talking about is
when the engines are run WAY WAY RICH. The amount of fuel you dump into
this engine makes a HUGE HUGE difference on engine temperature very much the
same as the UTVA-66. And the carbs between the two are very similar in the
way they work.
For my airplane, speed is the main issue. If I run high power settings in
the summer, I have to push the nose over and get some speed to get the oil
temp down. However, I am climbing at 85% or HIGHER at full throttle.
Yeah, I know a lot of folks like to baby these engines and that is fine, but
I have found them to run better when I push them hard. So far .....at over
800 hours, the only engine issues I have had were with leaded up exhaust
valves and that is when I was trying to be ever so careful with the engine.
Of course MMO fixed all that ....... but I think personally it was because I
started running the engine a lot harder and kept it hot. That opinion and 2
cents might buy you a glass of water, however that is what I do, and it
works for me. As for anyone else.... you're on your own. :-)
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] on behalf of DaBear
[dabear@damned.org]
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 3:40 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
Disclaimer NOTE: I'm just typing while my mind thinks, this is my opinion,
not an opinion of an expert. Although, I AM an expert ON my opinions. :)
In the flat engines, the oil is mostly in the engine and a little is in
cooler. In the CJ and Yak oil is mostly in the oil tank, with a little in
the engine and a little in the oil cooler. Therefore, the system has lower
temp oil overall through the process. It could be that the temp probe for
the flat engine is in the engine or on the outlet side. I couldn't get the
outlet side oil temps anywhere near 240DegF.
Also interesting is that in these engines, Housai, M14P and now my M14PF, it
has been extremely difficult to impossible to get the oil temp on the
outbound side of the engine up to 212deg F to "boil off" any
water/condensation from the oil. The oil temps in the system tend to run
cold even in the heat of summer. For example, running a week or so ago with
OAT around 90DegF, Altitude around 2-3k feet, airspeed at 145-150kts, power
at max continuous, oil inlet temps were 124degF with oil cooler door closed.
Oil outlet only got to 170degF. The oil cooler was changed (New) as of 800
hours ago, so it is warn. I'm running 25w60 . Climb up to 9-12k of
altitude and power back a little and its hard to keep the oil temps above
115degF
For people running the M14P and PF in the summer. What are you seeing for
CHT temps on initial take off, cruise, climb? What are the power settings
you are using when seeing these tempts?
Bear
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd McCutchan
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
Max sustain 167 F and max 15 min is 185 F vs my recommended 170 F and max
continuous 240 F.
That seeks like a big difference.
Is it due to Russian oil or radial engine?
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd@fastaircraft.com<mailto:todd@fastaircraft.com>
www.fastaircraft.com<http://www.fastaircraft.com/>
On Jul 9, 2014, at 10:06 AM, Robin Hou
<rmhou@yahoo.com<mailto:rmhou@yahoo.com>> wrote:
Bear's listed oil temps are the recommended minimum, not maximum. The format
makes the "Min" easy to miss.
On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:00 AM, Todd McCutchan
<todd@fastaircraft.com<mailto:todd@fastaircraft.com>> wrote:
Why are oil temps so much lower than flat six engines? Is this a radial
difference or a Russian oil difference?
On my IO-520 in my T-34 max oil is 240 F with 170 recommended.
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd@fastaircraft.com<mailto:todd@fastaircraft.com>
www.fastaircraft.com<http://www.fastaircraft.com/>
On Jul 9, 2014, at 9:12 AM, "DaBear"
<dabear@damned.org<mailto:dabear@damned.org>> wrote:
Just a reminder about Oil and CHT Temps ... here is the info from the M14P
manual.
Oil Temps
Engine Inlet
C
C
F
F
Recommended
50
65
122
149
Min Permissible
40
104
Max Sustain
75
167
Max 15 Min
85
185
Max Delta in/Out
50
122
32
CHT
32
Recommended
140
190
284
374
Min
120
248
Min Prolonged
140
284
Max Prolonged
220
428
Max 15 Min
240
464
That is the recommendation from the folks that built the M14P. I recommend
keeping CHTs well below 400 for engine life. But operation is up to you.
Bear
From:
owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.c
om> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
om> Goode
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 9:05 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
200 is acceptable in the climb, but I would not want more than that. In
passing, the temperature senders on the sparking plugs are not that
accurate, and it is worth cleaning them and the seat on the cylinder well,
and also, possibly, moving the sender to another cylinder to check.
You refer to a "bleed jet" - to avoid confusion the Russian manual calls it
a suction jet. It is made in sizes of 1.3 mm to 2.0 mm, and by virtue of
being a compensating jet a smaller jet richens the mixture. It affects the
engine at medium and full power settings but not at idle. It does make a big
difference to cylinder head temperatures, and indeed to fuel consumption. We
recommend to owners to change the jets between summer and winter, and to use
the biggest jet that is compatible with engine temperatures being
acceptable.
I don't understand what you mean by the jets being "in series". There is
only one.
Changing them is easy, and the jet has its size stamped in very small
letters on the end.
We have stocks of all the commonly used sizes.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com<http://www.russianaeros.com/>
From:
owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.c
om> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
om> Painter
Sent: 09 July 2014 12:06
Subject: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
Got a Yak-18T that shows head temps of 200 gage on initial climb. Seems a
bit high tho it cools down at cruise power. Have not yet verified gage
accuracy. Am wondering if its running a bit lean. I don't see a full power
enrichment circuit in the carburetor dwgs or any adjustment other than bleed
air jets (apparently in series which makes no sense) in the main circuit
plus an adjustment on the AMC diaphragm rod. So I have a few questions: 1)
does anyone have bleed air jet sets for sale? 2) are the jets actually in
series? 3) Do the jets affect the idle, main or full power circuits? How do
you establish a baseline in order to evaluate changes made to the mixture
short of a flow bench?
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
FlyWBA@gmail.com<mailto:FlyWBA@gmail.com>
FlyWBA.com<http://flywba.com/>
425-876-0865
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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MT "blacked out" these propellers so now they are screwing their customers. My
prop was bought and installed by a MT prop shop in Illinois. MT tried to tell
me it shouldn't have been brought into the country. They were trying to blame
someone when it was one if their approved service companies that sold and installed
it! Now when I try to go back to the same company that installed it, they
won't touch it. They're telling me that MT won't allow it. They're using the
Russian made excuse to not servicing my prop. They allowed this prop to go to
a factory approved center, be installed, then refuse to service it?! What's to
stop them from using another excuse next time? I for one will not risk buying
another 'single use' prop only to be stuck with a wall ornament!
Chris
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 5, 2014, at 7:18 AM, "Richard Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
I will try to set some issues straight:
To make my position clear, I am biased in favour of MT props, firstly
because I sell them and secondly because I really believe they are good. For
me a really important aspect is that they are fully certificated and if you
have had, like me, a propeller failure on a "experimental" propeller you
certainly would never want to have it again!
Then, MT will overhaul any prop of theirs, however old or however much
beyond the TBO.
In terms of the Russian MT props, the situation is simply that MT gave a
licence to Speriot in Russia to make MTV-9 props, on the basis that they
would be given a certain royalty for each propeller produced. In the event,
the Russians only declared every second? third? Propeller that they made, so
clearly saved a huge amount on royalty fees! It took MT a while to realise
what was happening since these Russian props with serial numbers that had
never been declared to MT started coming back to the factory or MT overseas
agents for overhaul.
So MT decided to "black" all these Russian props, which simply means that
you cannot get them overhauled, and since the Russian factory is no longer
in business, owners of these props will end up with quite expensive
ornaments. Because of our relationship with MT they have allowed us to buy
some of these Russian props that they themselves have bought in, but
strictly for non-aviation use, and we have made a number of "wind machines"
with these props and M 14 P engines for film studios.
I have heard excellent reports of the Whirlwind propellers, but I will
always have the basic concern about the lack of certification and the test
program that this implies. Yurgis Kairis had a catastrophic failure when an
entire blade departed from his Whirlwind on his Sukhoi 31. The forces tore
the gearbox from the crankcase; broke most of the engine mounts and a lot of
other frame tubes. Fortunately he was at low altitude with a long runway
ahead. Having said that, I am sure that appropriate modifications were
subsequently made.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 8:17 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: MT Prop TBO
When MT blades are overhauled they are only done in Germany from what I
understand. The blades are stripped, inspected, repaired, re-glassed,
painted and a new stainless edge is installed and your time starts over..
The Hub can be overhauled in the states and all service bulletins are
complied with and there are some of those. At overhaul all the seals ,
bolts and basically anything that get wear or tightened is replaced.
I got the distinct impression that if you needed a repair after TBO that
would not happen per a agreement with MT. Same as the Russian MT , No
Service at all on those. Someone can correct me but that is what I ran
into.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427994#427994
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Dear Yak pilots,
Is there someone who could help me identify the cause and cure for an air
leak in my 18T.
Ref attached picture, I have a constant air leak at the bottom of the unit
shown with an arrow.
This part is located on the left side, inside the front inspection hatch
Once I shut the 'main air' this leak bleeds the 'main air' system in about
30 min. Emergency air is not affected.
With the engine running, the compressor fills the system faster than it
leaks out, so I should still be able to go flying,
But I'm not sure I should, if the leak gets worse??
A friend suggested that this unit should not normally have air pressure
inside, unless the emergency air is opened, leading to
believe that the problem might be elsewhere, a leaking shuttle valve?
Thanks
Michael Wikstrom
La Colle sur Loup (06)
France
Tel : +33 607 44 40 11
email: michael@wikstrom.cc
Yak 18T - F-HYAC
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Yak18T air leak |
Hi
It looks like as the air valve that permit to send air from the emergency
system. This valve contains a spring that can be stucked by dust and rust.
You have to remove the part, unscrew the big cap and wash the inside with
glycerine and alcohol. And the problem will be solve!
By
Olivier
2014-08-05 17:03 GMT+02:00 Michael Wikstrom <michael@wikstrom.cc>:
> Dear Yak pilots,
>
>
> Is there someone who could help me identify the cause and cure for an air
> leak in my 18T.
>
>
> Ref attached picture, I have a constant air leak at the bottom of the uni
t
> shown with an arrow.
> This part is located on the left side, inside the front inspection hatch
>
>
> Once I shut the =98main air=99 this leak bleeds the =98
main air=99 system in about
> 30 min. Emergency air is not affected.
>
> With the engine running, the compressor fills the system faster than it
> leaks out, so I should still be able to go flying,
>
> But I=99m not sure I should, if the leak gets worse??
>
>
> A friend suggested that this unit should not normally have air pressure
> inside, unless the emergency air is opened, leading to
> believe that the problem might be elsewhere, a leaking shuttle valve?
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Michael Wikstrom
>
> La Colle sur Loup (06)
>
> France
>
>
> Tel : +33 607 44 40 11
>
> email: michael@wikstrom.cc
>
>
> Yak 18T - F-HYAC
>
>
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Of course, I know nothing about the particular circumstances of your propeller.
But, are you saying that an official MT agent sold you this (Russian) propeller;
installed it and now won't support it? Or, are you saying that you obtained
the propeller and had it installed on your plane by an MT agent? If the first,
then I suggest they have a strong responsibility to continue to support it.
But I suspect the practicality is the second case, and if so, I would agree with
their position. To be specific, did they know what prop it was before installing
it?
Then, you are being rather simplistic to think that MT are going to look for reasons
not to service your prop why on earth would they do that, except in this
very particular case of removing props from service that were manufactured illegally;
did not have MT certification so were, by definition, not legally airworthy.
Richard
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is +94 779
132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Ober
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: MT Prop TBO
MT "blacked out" these propellers so now they are screwing their customers. My
prop was bought and installed by a MT prop shop in Illinois. MT tried to tell
me it shouldn't have been brought into the country. They were trying to blame
someone when it was one if their approved service companies that sold and installed
it! Now when I try to go back to the same company that installed it, they
won't touch it. They're telling me that MT won't allow it. They're using the
Russian made excuse to not servicing my prop. They allowed this prop to go to
a factory approved center, be installed, then refuse to service it?! What's to
stop them from using another excuse next time? I for one will not risk buying
another 'single use' prop only to be stuck with a wall ornament!
Chris
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 5, 2014, at 7:18 AM, "Richard Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
--> <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
I will try to set some issues straight:
To make my position clear, I am biased in favour of MT props, firstly because I
sell them and secondly because I really believe they are good. For me a really
important aspect is that they are fully certificated and if you have had, like
me, a propeller failure on a "experimental" propeller you certainly would never
want to have it again!
Then, MT will overhaul any prop of theirs, however old or however much beyond the
TBO.
In terms of the Russian MT props, the situation is simply that MT gave a licence
to Speriot in Russia to make MTV-9 props, on the basis that they would be given
a certain royalty for each propeller produced. In the event, the Russians
only declared every second? third? Propeller that they made, so clearly saved
a huge amount on royalty fees! It took MT a while to realise what was happening
since these Russian props with serial numbers that had never been declared to
MT started coming back to the factory or MT overseas agents for overhaul.
So MT decided to "black" all these Russian props, which simply means that you cannot
get them overhauled, and since the Russian factory is no longer in business,
owners of these props will end up with quite expensive ornaments. Because
of our relationship with MT they have allowed us to buy some of these Russian
props that they themselves have bought in, but strictly for non-aviation use,
and we have made a number of "wind machines"
with these props and M 14 P engines for film studios.
I have heard excellent reports of the Whirlwind propellers, but I will always have
the basic concern about the lack of certification and the test program that
this implies. Yurgis Kairis had a catastrophic failure when an entire blade
departed from his Whirlwind on his Sukhoi 31. The forces tore the gearbox from
the crankcase; broke most of the engine mounts and a lot of other frame tubes.
Fortunately he was at low altitude with a long runway ahead. Having said that,
I am sure that appropriate modifications were subsequently made.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 8:17 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: MT Prop TBO
When MT blades are overhauled they are only done in Germany from what I understand.
The blades are stripped, inspected, repaired, re-glassed, painted and a
new stainless edge is installed and your time starts over..
The Hub can be overhauled in the states and all service bulletins are complied
with and there are some of those. At overhaul all the seals , bolts and basically
anything that get wear or tightened is replaced.
I got the distinct impression that if you needed a repair after TBO that would
not happen per a agreement with MT. Same as the Russian MT , No Service at all
on those. Someone can correct me but that is what I ran into.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427994#427994
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| Subject: | M14P mixture adjustment? |
Firstly, different Russian aircraft seemed to have slightly different colour
coding for the CHT. All I was saying is that you should be looking for the
right compensating jets that will allow you to have a maximum continuous
climb out, and still remain within the yellow arc of CHT. If it rises beyond
that, then you should put in a smaller jet, for a richer mixture which will
make a significant difference.
Of course there is a correlation between CHT and oil temperature and if one
is high, it will take the other up a little amount. But not significantly. I
am only referring to CHT.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaBear
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 7:39 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
Richard,
My English may be a bit rusty, so I'm not sure I'm getting the point. :-)
1. is the top of the yellow (428 deg F / 220 deg C) or (464 deg F /240 deg
C) ??
2. If the CHT is at the top of the green (400 deg F/ 200 deg C), shouldn't
the Oil temp be well into the green and not the bottom (122 deg F / 50 deg
C)???
Just trying to understand....
Bear
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 8:24 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
--> <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
Again, this does come back to the issue of the compensating (the Russians
call them suction jets) jets in the carburettor.
They go in sizes from 1.1 mm up to 2.1 mm, although midway in this range is
of course most common. As a "compensating" jet a larger jet results in a
leaner mixture and vice versa. They make a huge difference to CHT, and
should be changed so that the engine will remain just within the yellow on a
long climb out on a hot day. Indeed, if the engine is running too cool, the
jet is too small and you're wasting fuel.
Many owners change the jets between summer and winter which makes a lot of
sense.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaBear
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 1:04 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
I have not, both have been working fine for 3+ years. Also, I doubt that
both would have gone bad. Since the delta between them hasn't changed in 2
years, I can't see that it is both probes.
I'm not the only one I've heard with the issue. I know of at least 2 others
that run their M14PF (in a TW and a 52), get med-high CHTs, but the Oil
temps are low.
However, I'll figure out a way to check them, just to be sure. That is why
I asked it here.
Thanks,
Bear
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 12:24 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Bear,
Have you checked the calibration on your oil temp sending probe?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaBear
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2014 3:46 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
I wanted to get back to you Mark, Thanks for your thoughts, I didn't know
that about the flat engines. As to engine temps, however I'm not seeing
the same thing.
I understand what you are saying regarding very RICH engines. However, I'm
NOT having any problem seeing CHT's at 380-400 deg F (M14p manual says
428degF max continuous CHT temp) at level cruise. If I'm not careful, the
chts can rise fast on climb out. The engine gets warm enough. I'm seeing
OIL temp rise through engine of 25-26C but typically in cruise still only
see 124 deg F oil temp and that is with CHTs at 380-390 deg F. I really
wouldn't want to run the M14P at 400-428 deg F even though the book says its
ok.
So why the low OIL temps when CHT's are in the normal range?
I typically run at 2400RPM and full throttle on climb, 2400RPM and an inch
back from full throttle for everything else.
Bear
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 6:31 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Bear,
Regarding your design premises for flat engines, keep in mind this is only
true for those with a wet sump. For those with a dry sump, which is a
whole lot of them, such as the GSO-480 series for example, they too have an
external oil tank where most of the oil is outside of the engine case.
Just something to keep in mind. I also fly a UTVA-66 with a dry sump
GSO-480 with an auto-mixture adjust pressure carb. I can control EGT, and
thus CHT and oil temp with a simple push of the throttle by a VAST amount.
If I keep RPM up high (3200 or so) and pull the throttle back to say 38
inches (this is a blown engine remember, with max manifold of 48 inches), I
can run the EGT's right up into the danger area in seconds. I control CHT
and Oil Temp with the throttle... and that was an interesting lesson to
learn believe me.
I do not have the external temperature equipment that you have on my M-14P.
That said, oil temperature in M-14 engines flying aerobatics using the
standard probe locations and standard stock instrumentation has ALWAYS been
an issue (meaning they tend to run very high), and many attempts have been
made to address this in all models, such as cooler relocation, bigger
coolers, wing root changes to add the oil cooler there, etc.
Personally, my YAK-50 in hot weather will run the oil temp right into the
red if you let it. Such as on an extended climb. This is true for every
YAK and Sukhoi I have ever dealt with.
So your statement that the oil runs so cool as to not even boil off the
water runs counter to every single experience I have had with these engines.
The only time I have seen anything near to what you are talking about is
when the engines are run WAY WAY RICH. The amount of fuel you dump into
this engine makes a HUGE HUGE difference on engine temperature very much the
same as the UTVA-66. And the carbs between the two are very similar in the
way they work.
For my airplane, speed is the main issue. If I run high power settings in
the summer, I have to push the nose over and get some speed to get the oil
temp down. However, I am climbing at 85% or HIGHER at full throttle.
Yeah, I know a lot of folks like to baby these engines and that is fine, but
I have found them to run better when I push them hard. So far .....at over
800 hours, the only engine issues I have had were with leaded up exhaust
valves and that is when I was trying to be ever so careful with the engine.
Of course MMO fixed all that ....... but I think personally it was because I
started running the engine a lot harder and kept it hot. That opinion and 2
cents might buy you a glass of water, however that is what I do, and it
works for me. As for anyone else.... you're on your own. :-)
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] on behalf of DaBear
[dabear@damned.org]
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 3:40 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
Disclaimer NOTE: I'm just typing while my mind thinks, this is my opinion,
not an opinion of an expert. Although, I AM an expert ON my opinions. :)
In the flat engines, the oil is mostly in the engine and a little is in
cooler. In the CJ and Yak oil is mostly in the oil tank, with a little in
the engine and a little in the oil cooler. Therefore, the system has lower
temp oil overall through the process. It could be that the temp probe for
the flat engine is in the engine or on the outlet side. I couldn't get the
outlet side oil temps anywhere near 240DegF.
Also interesting is that in these engines, Housai, M14P and now my M14PF, it
has been extremely difficult to impossible to get the oil temp on the
outbound side of the engine up to 212deg F to "boil off" any
water/condensation from the oil. The oil temps in the system tend to run
cold even in the heat of summer. For example, running a week or so ago with
OAT around 90DegF, Altitude around 2-3k feet, airspeed at 145-150kts, power
at max continuous, oil inlet temps were 124degF with oil cooler door closed.
Oil outlet only got to 170degF. The oil cooler was changed (New) as of 800
hours ago, so it is warn. I'm running 25w60 . Climb up to 9-12k of
altitude and power back a little and its hard to keep the oil temps above
115degF
For people running the M14P and PF in the summer. What are you seeing for
CHT temps on initial take off, cruise, climb? What are the power settings
you are using when seeing these tempts?
Bear
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd McCutchan
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
Max sustain 167 F and max 15 min is 185 F vs my recommended 170 F and max
continuous 240 F.
That seeks like a big difference.
Is it due to Russian oil or radial engine?
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd@fastaircraft.com<mailto:todd@fastaircraft.com>
www.fastaircraft.com<http://www.fastaircraft.com/>
On Jul 9, 2014, at 10:06 AM, Robin Hou
<rmhou@yahoo.com<mailto:rmhou@yahoo.com>> wrote:
Bear's listed oil temps are the recommended minimum, not maximum. The format
makes the "Min" easy to miss.
On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:00 AM, Todd McCutchan
<todd@fastaircraft.com<mailto:todd@fastaircraft.com>> wrote:
Why are oil temps so much lower than flat six engines? Is this a radial
difference or a Russian oil difference?
On my IO-520 in my T-34 max oil is 240 F with 170 recommended.
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd@fastaircraft.com<mailto:todd@fastaircraft.com>
www.fastaircraft.com<http://www.fastaircraft.com/>
On Jul 9, 2014, at 9:12 AM, "DaBear"
<dabear@damned.org<mailto:dabear@damned.org>> wrote:
Just a reminder about Oil and CHT Temps ... here is the info from the M14P
manual.
Oil Temps
Engine Inlet
C
C
F
F
Recommended
50
65
122
149
Min Permissible
40
104
Max Sustain
75
167
Max 15 Min
85
185
Max Delta in/Out
50
122
32
CHT
32
Recommended
140
190
284
374
Min
120
248
Min Prolonged
140
284
Max Prolonged
220
428
Max 15 Min
240
464
That is the recommendation from the folks that built the M14P. I recommend
keeping CHTs well below 400 for engine life. But operation is up to you.
Bear
From:
owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.c
om> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
om> Goode
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 9:05 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
200 is acceptable in the climb, but I would not want more than that. In
passing, the temperature senders on the sparking plugs are not that
accurate, and it is worth cleaning them and the seat on the cylinder well,
and also, possibly, moving the sender to another cylinder to check.
You refer to a "bleed jet" - to avoid confusion the Russian manual calls it
a suction jet. It is made in sizes of 1.3 mm to 2.0 mm, and by virtue of
being a compensating jet a smaller jet richens the mixture. It affects the
engine at medium and full power settings but not at idle. It does make a big
difference to cylinder head temperatures, and indeed to fuel consumption. We
recommend to owners to change the jets between summer and winter, and to use
the biggest jet that is compatible with engine temperatures being
acceptable.
I don't understand what you mean by the jets being "in series". There is
only one.
Changing them is easy, and the jet has its size stamped in very small
letters on the end.
We have stocks of all the commonly used sizes.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com<http://www.russianaeros.com/>
From:
owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.c
om> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
om> Painter
Sent: 09 July 2014 12:06
Subject: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
Got a Yak-18T that shows head temps of 200 gage on initial climb. Seems a
bit high tho it cools down at cruise power. Have not yet verified gage
accuracy. Am wondering if its running a bit lean. I don't see a full power
enrichment circuit in the carburetor dwgs or any adjustment other than bleed
air jets (apparently in series which makes no sense) in the main circuit
plus an adjustment on the AMC diaphragm rod. So I have a few questions: 1)
does anyone have bleed air jet sets for sale? 2) are the jets actually in
series? 3) Do the jets affect the idle, main or full power circuits? How do
you establish a baseline in order to evaluate changes made to the mixture
short of a flow bench?
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
FlyWBA@gmail.com<mailto:FlyWBA@gmail.com>
FlyWBA.com<http://flywba.com/>
425-876-0865
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 12
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It was purchased from Aircraft Propeller Services, Inc. in Wheeling, IL. They are
a MT approved shop listed on the MT website for certified service shops. Needing
service I called them and they informed me that even though they sold it,
they cannot service it. They knew exactly what it was (Russian) when they sold
it. Only now under direction from MT in Florida (corporate USA) they cannot
service the prop. They said they use to be able to service them. Now they can
not. It's as simple as that.
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 5, 2014, at 11:18 AM, "Richard Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
Of course, I know nothing about the particular circumstances of your propeller.
But, are you saying that an official MT agent sold you this (Russian) propeller;
installed it and now won't support it? Or, are you saying that you obtained
the propeller and had it installed on your plane by an MT agent? If the first,
then I suggest they have a strong responsibility to continue to support it.
But I suspect the practicality is the second case, and if so, I would agree with
their position. To be specific, did they know what prop it was before installing
it?
Then, you are being rather simplistic to think that MT are going to look for reasons
not to service your prop why on earth would they do that, except in this
very particular case of removing props from service that were manufactured illegally;
did not have MT certification so were, by definition, not legally airworthy.
Richard
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is +94 779
132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Ober
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: MT Prop TBO
MT "blacked out" these propellers so now they are screwing their customers. My
prop was bought and installed by a MT prop shop in Illinois. MT tried to tell
me it shouldn't have been brought into the country. They were trying to blame
someone when it was one if their approved service companies that sold and installed
it! Now when I try to go back to the same company that installed it, they
won't touch it. They're telling me that MT won't allow it. They're using the
Russian made excuse to not servicing my prop. They allowed this prop to go to
a factory approved center, be installed, then refuse to service it?! What's to
stop them from using another excuse next time? I for one will not risk buying
another 'single use' prop only to be stuck with a wall ornament!
Chris
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 5, 2014, at 7:18 AM, "Richard Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
--> <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
I will try to set some issues straight:
To make my position clear, I am biased in favour of MT props, firstly because I
sell them and secondly because I really believe they are good. For me a really
important aspect is that they are fully certificated and if you have had, like
me, a propeller failure on a "experimental" propeller you certainly would never
want to have it again!
Then, MT will overhaul any prop of theirs, however old or however much beyond the
TBO.
In terms of the Russian MT props, the situation is simply that MT gave a licence
to Speriot in Russia to make MTV-9 props, on the basis that they would be given
a certain royalty for each propeller produced. In the event, the Russians
only declared every second? third? Propeller that they made, so clearly saved
a huge amount on royalty fees! It took MT a while to realise what was happening
since these Russian props with serial numbers that had never been declared to
MT started coming back to the factory or MT overseas agents for overhaul.
So MT decided to "black" all these Russian props, which simply means that you cannot
get them overhauled, and since the Russian factory is no longer in business,
owners of these props will end up with quite expensive ornaments. Because
of our relationship with MT they have allowed us to buy some of these Russian
props that they themselves have bought in, but strictly for non-aviation use,
and we have made a number of "wind machines"
with these props and M 14 P engines for film studios.
I have heard excellent reports of the Whirlwind propellers, but I will always have
the basic concern about the lack of certification and the test program that
this implies. Yurgis Kairis had a catastrophic failure when an entire blade
departed from his Whirlwind on his Sukhoi 31. The forces tore the gearbox from
the crankcase; broke most of the engine mounts and a lot of other frame tubes.
Fortunately he was at low altitude with a long runway ahead. Having said that,
I am sure that appropriate modifications were subsequently made.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 8:17 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: MT Prop TBO
When MT blades are overhauled they are only done in Germany from what I understand.
The blades are stripped, inspected, repaired, re-glassed, painted and a
new stainless edge is installed and your time starts over..
The Hub can be overhauled in the states and all service bulletins are complied
with and there are some of those. At overhaul all the seals , bolts and basically
anything that get wear or tightened is replaced.
I got the distinct impression that if you needed a repair after TBO that would
not happen per a agreement with MT. Same as the Russian MT , No Service at all
on those. Someone can correct me but that is what I ran into.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427994#427994
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Message 13
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| Subject: | M14P mixture adjustment? |
Thanks Richard.
Ok, for those here on the list, what are you using for CHT temps on your
M14P (and PF)?
Bear
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 12:22 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
--> <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
Firstly, different Russian aircraft seemed to have slightly different colour
coding for the CHT. All I was saying is that you should be looking for the
right compensating jets that will allow you to have a maximum continuous
climb out, and still remain within the yellow arc of CHT. If it rises beyond
that, then you should put in a smaller jet, for a richer mixture which will
make a significant difference.
Of course there is a correlation between CHT and oil temperature and if one
is high, it will take the other up a little amount. But not significantly. I
am only referring to CHT.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaBear
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 7:39 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
Richard,
My English may be a bit rusty, so I'm not sure I'm getting the point. :-)
1. is the top of the yellow (428 deg F / 220 deg C) or (464 deg F /240 deg
C) ??
2. If the CHT is at the top of the green (400 deg F/ 200 deg C), shouldn't
the Oil temp be well into the green and not the bottom (122 deg F / 50 deg
C)???
Just trying to understand....
Bear
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 8:24 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
--> <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
Again, this does come back to the issue of the compensating (the Russians
call them suction jets) jets in the carburettor.
They go in sizes from 1.1 mm up to 2.1 mm, although midway in this range is
of course most common. As a "compensating" jet a larger jet results in a
leaner mixture and vice versa. They make a huge difference to CHT, and
should be changed so that the engine will remain just within the yellow on a
long climb out on a hot day. Indeed, if the engine is running too cool, the
jet is too small and you're wasting fuel.
Many owners change the jets between summer and winter which makes a lot of
sense.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaBear
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 1:04 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
I have not, both have been working fine for 3+ years. Also, I doubt that
both would have gone bad. Since the delta between them hasn't changed in 2
years, I can't see that it is both probes.
I'm not the only one I've heard with the issue. I know of at least 2 others
that run their M14PF (in a TW and a 52), get med-high CHTs, but the Oil
temps are low.
However, I'll figure out a way to check them, just to be sure. That is why
I asked it here.
Thanks,
Bear
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2014 12:24 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Bear,
Have you checked the calibration on your oil temp sending probe?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaBear
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2014 3:46 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
I wanted to get back to you Mark, Thanks for your thoughts, I didn't know
that about the flat engines. As to engine temps, however I'm not seeing
the same thing.
I understand what you are saying regarding very RICH engines. However, I'm
NOT having any problem seeing CHT's at 380-400 deg F (M14p manual says
428degF max continuous CHT temp) at level cruise. If I'm not careful, the
chts can rise fast on climb out. The engine gets warm enough. I'm seeing
OIL temp rise through engine of 25-26C but typically in cruise still only
see 124 deg F oil temp and that is with CHTs at 380-390 deg F. I really
wouldn't want to run the M14P at 400-428 deg F even though the book says its
ok.
So why the low OIL temps when CHT's are in the normal range?
I typically run at 2400RPM and full throttle on climb, 2400RPM and an inch
back from full throttle for everything else.
Bear
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 6:31 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Bear,
Regarding your design premises for flat engines, keep in mind this is only
true for those with a wet sump. For those with a dry sump, which is a
whole lot of them, such as the GSO-480 series for example, they too have an
external oil tank where most of the oil is outside of the engine case.
Just something to keep in mind. I also fly a UTVA-66 with a dry sump
GSO-480 with an auto-mixture adjust pressure carb. I can control EGT, and
thus CHT and oil temp with a simple push of the throttle by a VAST amount.
If I keep RPM up high (3200 or so) and pull the throttle back to say 38
inches (this is a blown engine remember, with max manifold of 48 inches), I
can run the EGT's right up into the danger area in seconds. I control CHT
and Oil Temp with the throttle... and that was an interesting lesson to
learn believe me.
I do not have the external temperature equipment that you have on my M-14P.
That said, oil temperature in M-14 engines flying aerobatics using the
standard probe locations and standard stock instrumentation has ALWAYS been
an issue (meaning they tend to run very high), and many attempts have been
made to address this in all models, such as cooler relocation, bigger
coolers, wing root changes to add the oil cooler there, etc.
Personally, my YAK-50 in hot weather will run the oil temp right into the
red if you let it. Such as on an extended climb. This is true for every
YAK and Sukhoi I have ever dealt with.
So your statement that the oil runs so cool as to not even boil off the
water runs counter to every single experience I have had with these engines.
The only time I have seen anything near to what you are talking about is
when the engines are run WAY WAY RICH. The amount of fuel you dump into
this engine makes a HUGE HUGE difference on engine temperature very much the
same as the UTVA-66. And the carbs between the two are very similar in the
way they work.
For my airplane, speed is the main issue. If I run high power settings in
the summer, I have to push the nose over and get some speed to get the oil
temp down. However, I am climbing at 85% or HIGHER at full throttle.
Yeah, I know a lot of folks like to baby these engines and that is fine, but
I have found them to run better when I push them hard. So far .....at over
800 hours, the only engine issues I have had were with leaded up exhaust
valves and that is when I was trying to be ever so careful with the engine.
Of course MMO fixed all that ....... but I think personally it was because I
started running the engine a lot harder and kept it hot. That opinion and 2
cents might buy you a glass of water, however that is what I do, and it
works for me. As for anyone else.... you're on your own. :-)
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] on behalf of DaBear
[dabear@damned.org]
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 3:40 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
Disclaimer NOTE: I'm just typing while my mind thinks, this is my opinion,
not an opinion of an expert. Although, I AM an expert ON my opinions. :)
In the flat engines, the oil is mostly in the engine and a little is in
cooler. In the CJ and Yak oil is mostly in the oil tank, with a little in
the engine and a little in the oil cooler. Therefore, the system has lower
temp oil overall through the process. It could be that the temp probe for
the flat engine is in the engine or on the outlet side. I couldn't get the
outlet side oil temps anywhere near 240DegF.
Also interesting is that in these engines, Housai, M14P and now my M14PF, it
has been extremely difficult to impossible to get the oil temp on the
outbound side of the engine up to 212deg F to "boil off" any
water/condensation from the oil. The oil temps in the system tend to run
cold even in the heat of summer. For example, running a week or so ago with
OAT around 90DegF, Altitude around 2-3k feet, airspeed at 145-150kts, power
at max continuous, oil inlet temps were 124degF with oil cooler door closed.
Oil outlet only got to 170degF. The oil cooler was changed (New) as of 800
hours ago, so it is warn. I'm running 25w60 . Climb up to 9-12k of
altitude and power back a little and its hard to keep the oil temps above
115degF
For people running the M14P and PF in the summer. What are you seeing for
CHT temps on initial take off, cruise, climb? What are the power settings
you are using when seeing these tempts?
Bear
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd McCutchan
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
Max sustain 167 F and max 15 min is 185 F vs my recommended 170 F and max
continuous 240 F.
That seeks like a big difference.
Is it due to Russian oil or radial engine?
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd@fastaircraft.com<mailto:todd@fastaircraft.com>
www.fastaircraft.com<http://www.fastaircraft.com/>
On Jul 9, 2014, at 10:06 AM, Robin Hou
<rmhou@yahoo.com<mailto:rmhou@yahoo.com>> wrote:
Bear's listed oil temps are the recommended minimum, not maximum. The format
makes the "Min" easy to miss.
On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:00 AM, Todd McCutchan
<todd@fastaircraft.com<mailto:todd@fastaircraft.com>> wrote:
Why are oil temps so much lower than flat six engines? Is this a radial
difference or a Russian oil difference?
On my IO-520 in my T-34 max oil is 240 F with 170 recommended.
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd@fastaircraft.com<mailto:todd@fastaircraft.com>
www.fastaircraft.com<http://www.fastaircraft.com/>
On Jul 9, 2014, at 9:12 AM, "DaBear"
<dabear@damned.org<mailto:dabear@damned.org>> wrote:
Just a reminder about Oil and CHT Temps ... here is the info from the M14P
manual.
Oil Temps
Engine Inlet
C
C
F
F
Recommended
50
65
122
149
Min Permissible
40
104
Max Sustain
75
167
Max 15 Min
85
185
Max Delta in/Out
50
122
32
CHT
32
Recommended
140
190
284
374
Min
120
248
Min Prolonged
140
284
Max Prolonged
220
428
Max 15 Min
240
464
That is the recommendation from the folks that built the M14P. I recommend
keeping CHTs well below 400 for engine life. But operation is up to you.
Bear
From:
owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.c
om> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
om> Goode
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 9:05 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
200 is acceptable in the climb, but I would not want more than that. In
passing, the temperature senders on the sparking plugs are not that
accurate, and it is worth cleaning them and the seat on the cylinder well,
and also, possibly, moving the sender to another cylinder to check.
You refer to a "bleed jet" - to avoid confusion the Russian manual calls it
a suction jet. It is made in sizes of 1.3 mm to 2.0 mm, and by virtue of
being a compensating jet a smaller jet richens the mixture. It affects the
engine at medium and full power settings but not at idle. It does make a big
difference to cylinder head temperatures, and indeed to fuel consumption. We
recommend to owners to change the jets between summer and winter, and to use
the biggest jet that is compatible with engine temperatures being
acceptable.
I don't understand what you mean by the jets being "in series". There is
only one.
Changing them is easy, and the jet has its size stamped in very small
letters on the end.
We have stocks of all the commonly used sizes.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com<http://www.russianaeros.com/>
From:
owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.c
om> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry
om> Painter
Sent: 09 July 2014 12:06
Subject: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
Got a Yak-18T that shows head temps of 200 gage on initial climb. Seems a
bit high tho it cools down at cruise power. Have not yet verified gage
accuracy. Am wondering if its running a bit lean. I don't see a full power
enrichment circuit in the carburetor dwgs or any adjustment other than bleed
air jets (apparently in series which makes no sense) in the main circuit
plus an adjustment on the AMC diaphragm rod. So I have a few questions: 1)
does anyone have bleed air jet sets for sale? 2) are the jets actually in
series? 3) Do the jets affect the idle, main or full power circuits? How do
you establish a baseline in order to evaluate changes made to the mixture
short of a flow bench?
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
FlyWBA@gmail.com<mailto:FlyWBA@gmail.com>
FlyWBA.com<http://flywba.com/>
425-876-0865
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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| Subject: | Re: AirVenture '14 / Pneumatic Puzzle Solved? |
Good for you that you can get help from experienced (and nice!) mechanics.
It's a bit the same over here.
In my club (Cercle des machines Volantes) the added experience of all the
retired mechanics that pass long days at the club, is also in the hundreds
of years!
And I'm always glad when they come over to help.
BR,
Jan
From: Rico Jaeger <rocknpilot@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: AirVenture '14 / Pneumatic Puzzle Solved?
Jan - Thank you for the "thanks!" 'Glad to share!
Jeff - My "Buck Fifty" is serial'd as 62658...so I think that makes the
airframes more like 3rd cousins... :)
Doc - You guys don't miss much. Opening the filter canister was a chapter in
itself. Did you guys read anything lately about the Central WI EAA Chapter
finishing Paul Poberezny's last project - a Baby Ace that he started the
Fall before his passing? (This was in an effort to get it to Paul's Tribute
at OSH - which they did) Well, that project and EAA Chapter are both based
at my airport - Wausau Downtown Airport (AUW). Like most active airports,
there is one central hangar where the atmosphere (read that as the best
tools, refreshments, bakery, photographic tributes to the female form and
healthy doses of "ribbing" balanced by genuine invaluable assistance) is
just - for some reason - conducive to being a natural hub of activity. The 6
- 10 guys who burnt the midnight oil to finish the Baby Ace in time for
AirVenture are mostly key players in the local aviation
community...machinists, hobbyist engineers, wood workers, builders,
mechanics / A&Ps, etc. While I put some time in on the "Sweetheart Project"
Baby Ace also, they were well-aware I had my own personal deadlines drawing
near: namely putting the Yak on the EAA Warbird field. The Sunday I pulled
the air cleaner canister off my firewall, I tinkered for a bit in my hangar
w/ zero success. So...I walked the 100 yards over to Rick's. As was the
routine lately, the majority of the "super team" was busy bending metal on
the Ace. After a bit of catching up, I hit the work bench. When they noticed
me struggling (read THAT as "cursing profusely" and bleeding from multiple
lacerations) they became curious. Soon enough I had an audience.
Predictably, they started offering advice. I came back with "tried that -
didn't work" and "won't work - here's why" etc. When I said I was gonna run
back to my hangar to grab more 22 mm sockets / wrenches, one of them said
"Mind if I try?" NOT AT ALL! As I walked out the door to spring back to my
humble "shop," I was both elated and a tad embarrassed that I'd had to pull
a "Dad, can you get this?" Yet, I knew I was in great hands. Imagine my
amazement (and slight satisfaction) when I returned 15 minutes later to find
ALL of them gathered around the canister on the bench - which was still
sealed up TIGHT! They were staring at it like it just crashed through the
hangar roof. Well, to make a long story slightly shorter, we ended up making
a custom vice "cradle" to both support and lock up the lower body of the
canister so that there was absolutely no "give" to it whatsoever. Then with
a little heat, a 6-point quality, shallow socket and a 6' steel tube for
leverage...VOILA! The top released w/ an audible "crack." I had to laugh
when all of them cautiously peered inside like something was about to leap
out and attack. "THAT'S IT?!?" was their reaction to the element.
Yup. That was it.
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau, WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1966 Cessna 150F ^/---//-X
N8558G //
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
Subject: Re: Yak-List: AirVenture '14 / Pneumatic Puzzle Solved?
From: jan.mevis@informavia.be
Thanks for sharing!
From: Rico Jaeger <rocknpilot@hotmail.com>
<yak52rs@nnex.net>
Subject: Yak-List: AirVenture '14 / Pneumatic Puzzle Solved?
Hi, All!
I just wanted to send out a big THANK YOU to all who stopped-by to introduce
themselves / chat at OSH. Having a Warbird on the field at EAA was the
realization of a lifelong dream for me - made even better by some great
people pulling me into their circles. Redstar representation was respectable
in the air and on the ground, AEROSTARS ROCKED THE HOUSE (as usual) and I
was very proud to be (remotely) associated w/ it all!
For those of you who followed my many pneumatic trials and tribulations, I
believe I have finally found the answer. If you are able to recall, I
brought my Yak home on a trailer from New Jersey to Central WI in November,
2011. It had suffered a substantial engine fire. I believed at the time I
had purchased a firewall-back project and I would now need to find a
suitable FWF. But when we started cleaning it up, things looked more
promising than we'd originally thought. Compression was solid and after a
carb, oil / fuel pump rebuild, ignition upgrade and all new hoses and
wiring, we had our 1st successful engine run on Easter Sunday, 2012. A few
months later the plane was test flown by 2 local Yak pilots who said the
pneumatic system was not meeting operational needs. After cleaning the
fittings and de-gunking as much as possible, there was still no noticeable
recharge on ground-runs. I replaced the compressor w/ a recently rebuilt
unit I purchased from a private party. After 1:40 of flight time, the
compressor destroyed itself. It sheared the four (4) studs that hold the
compressor cylinder to the base - and sent a snowfall of magnesium shavings
into my oil system - as well as "painted" the entire right wing root and
fuselage in oil. We landed without incident. Convinced I had bought a bad
compressor, I sent my original out to be rebuilt. After an oil change and
screen-check, we fired up again and that compressor failed after 40 minutes
of flight time. We again had a safe landing. Same thing: the cylinder
separated from the base - actually shearing the studs - and there were
magnesium shavings everywhere, oil bath, etc. This time the compressor blew
off the top segment that retains the filter, as well as ripped through the
safety wire holding the output fittings and these parts were ejected and
lost in flight. These were signs of a very violent demise. I sent out both
compressors and there were enough good parts to build one (1) functional
compressor. I also sent out the shear coupling and "crucifix" off the
firewall to verify the integrity of the check valves, pop-off valve and air
filter. Upon its return, I re-installed it all and ran it on the ground, and
it also started to come apart. The cylinder had - once again - began to
separate from the base of the compressor. Although we caught it early, on
the ground, and this time the hold-down nuts had only begun to de-thread. I
sent out that compressor and it was reassembled and deemed airworthy. This
time I also replaced the drive gear and shear coupling - thinking maybe
there was some bad geometry there - seeing as how there had been a fire and
all - and the prior wrenching on the aircraft seemed both minimal and
questionable. After a few ground runs, the compressor held up - but there
was no evidence of the air recharging. Once again, I started pulling air
lines to confirm clear passage. All were good and there was no sign of any
cracks, etc. I pulled the compressor AGAIN (Sadly - I have this routine
DOWN!) to verify that the shear coupling was intact. It was. There was no
sign of any "hydro-lock" - the popular analysis from many. There was no sign
of oil starvation - the 2nd most popular off-site diagnosis. I then went
through all the firewall components. The LAST item I pulled off and checked
was the in-line air filter at the bottom of the firewall cluster. The
dime-sized "wafer" element contained within was 100% blocked shut with an
oily, rigid, carbon deposit. No air was capable of passing through it. For
those unfamiliar w/ the system, this filter is THE filter for the pneumatic
system. It would appear my Yak had suffered a "stroke." I pulled the element
and temporarily re-installed the filter housing. Upon run-up, there was an
immediately noticeable movement of the air gauge - the system was charging.
I installed a new element. Where as before, I never exceeded 1:40 of run
time without the compressor committing suicide, now - after 39 hours of
issue-free run / flight time, I feel reasonably safe in saying this was
likely the cause of my many problems...a $17 air filter element. I believe
it was constricted when the plane came home. So some air was passing. And as
the constriction tightened, so did the life expectancy of the compressor
diminish.
In sharing this info w/ a few other owners, the feedback was about a 70/30
split between "congrats" and "there's no way that was the problem." All I
can offer is my compressor finally seems content to both take off AND land
w/ the rest of the aircraft. I submit this info to the list in a humble
attempt to possibly aid anyone encountering similar frustrations and
considerable cost. I am not in the league of many who truly "know" these
planes - but I have learned much simply through asking, experimenting and
determination. I was told several times by very qualified parties, "You are
screwing something up." I wish it had been that simple. I would've happily
eaten crow to abbreviate this nearly 2-year, expensive and frustrating
trouble-shooting journey. But suffice to say, I am THRILLED it would appear
I finally have a functional aircraft. Parking N21YK in Warbirds at OSH was a
personal victory that I would be hard-pressed to adequately put into words.
It was a wonderful experience to - at last - NOT be looking in from the
outside.
Next quest: FAST CARD! :)
Cheers, Y'all!
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau, WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1966 Cessna 150F ^/---//-X
N8558G //
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
com
ronics.com/contribution
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rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
==========
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Message 15
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When did you purchased this prop Chris? I ran into this issue myself in 2004/2005
time frame. If this shop sold you this prop AFTER that year, then I would
offer that they might have committed fraud, plain and simple. That is at least
my opinion based on conversations with MT, a few emails from Richard, and
more than a few folks in Russia.
And Richard... it would probably be a good thing if MT told the world about these
Russian props, that they included the details and their refusal to service
them at EVERY SERVICE CENTER OUT THERE, and also put word of it on their WEB SITE
along with a complete method by which to identify them.
This would be the responsable and professional thing to do in order to keep their
present and potential customers from being burnt. That would be a lot better
than an occasional email on the YAK List. That being said, this is yet another
reason why I look at MT somewhat askance. Hey, I get that it makes sense
to Germans.
Let's look at the facts. You say it was manufactured illegally, did not have
MT certification, and by definition is not airworthy.
But in reality, "If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a .... um...
ah... IT'S A GOOSE"...... well, how are people supposed to KNOW that?
I believe the reality is that ORIGINALLY Russia was supposed to be able to LEGALLY
manufacture these props, but "the deal fell through" and why that exactly
happened is open to a lot of hear-say and interpretation.
Chris got screwed. And MT holds part of the blame. The percentage to be determined.
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
on behalf of Chris Ober [christopherjober@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: MT Prop TBO
It was purchased from Aircraft Propeller Services, Inc. in Wheeling, IL. They are
a MT approved shop listed on the MT website for certified service shops. Needing
service I called them and they informed me that even though they sold it,
they cannot service it. They knew exactly what it was (Russian) when they sold
it. Only now under direction from MT in Florida (corporate USA) they cannot
service the prop. They said they use to be able to service them. Now they can
not. It's as simple as that.
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 5, 2014, at 11:18 AM, "Richard Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
Of course, I know nothing about the particular circumstances of your propeller.
But, are you saying that an official MT agent sold you this (Russian) propeller;
installed it and now won't support it? Or, are you saying that you obtained
the propeller and had it installed on your plane by an MT agent? If the first,
then I suggest they have a strong responsibility to continue to support it.
But I suspect the practicality is the second case, and if so, I would agree with
their position. To be specific, did they know what prop it was before installing
it?
Then, you are being rather simplistic to think that MT are going to look for reasons
not to service your prop why on earth would they do that, except in this
very particular case of removing props from service that were manufactured illegally;
did not have MT certification so were, by definition, not legally airworthy.
Richard
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com<http://www.russianaeros.com/>
Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is +94 779
132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Ober
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: MT Prop TBO
MT "blacked out" these propellers so now they are screwing their customers. My
prop was bought and installed by a MT prop shop in Illinois. MT tried to tell
me it shouldn't have been brought into the country. They were trying to blame
someone when it was one if their approved service companies that sold and installed
it! Now when I try to go back to the same company that installed it, they
won't touch it. They're telling me that MT won't allow it. They're using the
Russian made excuse to not servicing my prop. They allowed this prop to go to
a factory approved center, be installed, then refuse to service it?! What's to
stop them from using another excuse next time? I for one will not risk buying
another 'single use' prop only to be stuck with a wall ornament!
Chris
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 5, 2014, at 7:18 AM, "Richard Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
--> <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
I will try to set some issues straight:
To make my position clear, I am biased in favour of MT props, firstly because I
sell them and secondly because I really believe they are good. For me a really
important aspect is that they are fully certificated and if you have had, like
me, a propeller failure on a "experimental" propeller you certainly would never
want to have it again!
Then, MT will overhaul any prop of theirs, however old or however much beyond the
TBO.
In terms of the Russian MT props, the situation is simply that MT gave a licence
to Speriot in Russia to make MTV-9 props, on the basis that they would be given
a certain royalty for each propeller produced. In the event, the Russians
only declared every second? third? Propeller that they made, so clearly saved
a huge amount on royalty fees! It took MT a while to realise what was happening
since these Russian props with serial numbers that had never been declared to
MT started coming back to the factory or MT overseas agents for overhaul.
So MT decided to "black" all these Russian props, which simply means that you cannot
get them overhauled, and since the Russian factory is no longer in business,
owners of these props will end up with quite expensive ornaments. Because
of our relationship with MT they have allowed us to buy some of these Russian
props that they themselves have bought in, but strictly for non-aviation use,
and we have made a number of "wind machines"
with these props and M 14 P engines for film studios.
I have heard excellent reports of the Whirlwind propellers, but I will always have
the basic concern about the lack of certification and the test program that
this implies. Yurgis Kairis had a catastrophic failure when an entire blade
departed from his Whirlwind on his Sukhoi 31. The forces tore the gearbox from
the crankcase; broke most of the engine mounts and a lot of other frame tubes.
Fortunately he was at low altitude with a long runway ahead. Having said that,
I am sure that appropriate modifications were subsequently made.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com<http://www.russianaeros.com/>
Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 8:17 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: MT Prop TBO
When MT blades are overhauled they are only done in Germany from what I understand.
The blades are stripped, inspected, repaired, re-glassed, painted and a
new stainless edge is installed and your time starts over..
The Hub can be overhauled in the states and all service bulletins are complied
with and there are some of those. At overhaul all the seals , bolts and basically
anything that get wear or tightened is replaced.
I got the distinct impression that if you needed a repair after TBO that would
not happen per a agreement with MT. Same as the Russian MT , No Service at all
on those. Someone can correct me but that is what I ran into.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427994#427994
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Message 16
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Hi Richard.
Do you have more details on the blade failure Yurgis had with his Whirlwind, eg
when, prop model, any results of the investigation? As a Whirlwind owner,
I would be very interested to know what happened.
Cheers Egon.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428054#428054
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| Subject: | Re: V530TA-D35 Overhaul requirement |
Thank you Richard, thats a bit more reassuring.
I've still had my chut repacked tho. :-)
My 55m will have 400hrs by the end of this year, so we're gona take the wings off
and check the attachments, replace the bolts. We'll also have a really good
inspection of the hub. She's now got composite blades which are more accurate
and lighter than the original, not sure if that reduces the strain on the hub
or not? They are 4.5" longer.
Thank you for your posts.
Steve. NZ.
P.S. Do you have any oversize wing bolts for a 55m? I need 4 , not sure what size
to ream the holes?
--------
SteveO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428058#428058
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| Subject: | Re: Aerobatics Impacts on Props |
Thanks Mark. Yeah the front shaft seal is leaking a bit. A lot if I do a prolonged
flat spin.
A couple of people have mentioned worn engine mount rubber as a possible cause
for harmonic vibration. I shall look to replace them in the next service.
What do worn rubbers look like? The motor is very rigid and had no discernible
play in the engine frame.
Thank you for your post.
Anyone got a set of engine mount rubbers available?
--------
SteveO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428059#428059
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| Subject: | Re: AirVenture '14 / Pneumatic Puzzle Solved? |
Well Rico have to say I did not try the 6 foot steel tube for a torque lever
.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 5, 2014, at 8:53 AM, Rico Jaeger <rocknpilot@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Jan - Thank you for the "thanks!" 'Glad to share!
>
> Jeff - My "Buck Fifty" is serial'd as 62658...so I think that makes the ai
rframes more like 3rd cousins... :)
>
> Doc - You guys don't miss much. Opening the filter canister was a chapter i
n itself. Did you guys read anything lately about the Central WI EAA Chapter
finishing Paul Poberezny's last project - a Baby Ace that he started the Fa
ll before his passing? (This was in an effort to get it to Paul's Tribute at
OSH - which they did) Well, that project and EAA Chapter are both based at m
y airport - Wausau Downtown Airport (AUW). Like most active airports, there i
s one central hangar where the atmosphere (read that as the best tools, refr
eshments, bakery, photographic tributes to the female form and healthy doses
of "ribbing" balanced by genuine invaluable assistance) is just - for some r
eason - conducive to being a natural hub of activity. The 6 - 10 guys who bu
rnt the midnight oil to finish the Baby Ace in time for AirVenture are mostl
y key players in the local aviation community...machinists, hobbyist enginee
rs, wood workers, builders, mechanics / A&Ps, etc. While I put some time in o
n the "Sweetheart Project" Baby Ace also, they were well-aware I had my own p
ersonal deadlines drawing near: namely putting the Yak on the EAA Warbird fi
eld. The Sunday I pulled the air cleaner canister off my firewall, I tinkere
d for a bit in my hangar w/ zero success. So...I walked the 100 yards over t
o Rick's. As was the routine lately, the majority of the "super team" was bu
sy bending metal on the Ace. After a bit of catching up, I hit the work benc
h. When they noticed me struggling (read THAT as "cursing profusely" and ble
eding from multiple lacerations) they became curious. Soon enough I had an a
udience. Predictably, they started offering advice. I came back with "tried t
hat - didn't work" and "won't work - here's why" etc. When I said I was gonn
a run back to my hangar to grab more 22 mm sockets / wrenches, one of them s
aid "Mind if I try?" NOT AT ALL! As I walked out the door to spring back to m
y humble "shop," I was both elated and a tad embarrassed that I'd had to pul
l a "Dad, can you get this?" Yet, I knew I was in great hands. Imagine my am
azement (and slight satisfaction) when I returned 15 minutes later to find A
LL of them gathered around the canister on the bench - which was still seale
d up TIGHT! They were staring at it like it just crashed through the hangar r
oof. Well, to make a long story slightly shorter, we ended up making a custo
m vice "cradle" to both support and lock up the lower body of the canister s
o that there was absolutely no "give" to it whatsoever. Then with a little h
eat, a 6-point quality, shallow socket and a 6' steel tube for leverage...VO
ILA! The top released w/ an audible "crack." I had to laugh when all of them
cautiously peered inside like something was about to leap out and attack. "
THAT'S IT?!?" was their reaction to the element.
>
> Yup. That was it.
>
> Rico Jaeger
> 915 S. 11th Ave.
> Wausau, WI. 54401
> 715.529.7426
> //
> 1966 Cessna 150F ^/---//-X
> N8558G //
> //
> 1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
> N21YK //
>
>
>
>
> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2014 08:28:39 +0200
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: AirVenture '14 / Pneumatic Puzzle Solved?
> From: jan.mevis@informavia.be
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>
> Thanks for sharing!
>
> From: Rico Jaeger <rocknpilot@hotmail.com>
> Date: Monday 4 August 2014 20:35
> To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>, "yak52rs@nnex.net" <
yak52rs@nnex.net>
> Subject: Yak-List: AirVenture '14 / Pneumatic Puzzle Solved?
>
> Hi, All!
>
> I just wanted to send out a big THANK YOU to all who stopped-by to introdu
ce themselves / chat at OSH. Having a Warbird on the field at EAA was the re
alization of a lifelong dream for me - made even better by some great people
pulling me into their circles. Redstar representation was respectable in th
e air and on the ground, AEROSTARS ROCKED THE HOUSE (as usual) and I was ver
y proud to be (remotely) associated w/ it all!
>
> For those of you who followed my many pneumatic trials and tribulations, I
believe I have finally found the answer. If you are able to recall, I broug
ht my Yak home on a trailer from New Jersey to Central WI in November, 2011.
It had suffered a substantial engine fire. I believed at the time I had pur
chased a firewall-back project and I would now need to find a suitable FWF. B
ut when we started cleaning it up, things looked more promising than we'd or
iginally thought. Compression was solid and after a carb, oil / fuel pump re
build, ignition upgrade and all new hoses and wiring, we had our 1st success
ful engine run on Easter Sunday, 2012. A few months later the plane was test
flown by 2 local Yak pilots who said the pneumatic system was not meeting o
perational needs. After cleaning the fittings and de-gunking as much as poss
ible, there was still no noticeable recharge on ground-runs. I replaced the c
ompressor w/ a recently rebuilt unit I purchased from a private party. After
1:40 of flight time, the compressor destroyed itself. It sheared the four (
4) studs that hold the compressor cylinder to the base - and sent a snowfall
of magnesium shavings into my oil system - as well as "painted" the entire r
ight wing root and fuselage in oil. We landed without incident. Convinced I h
ad bought a bad compressor, I sent my original out to be rebuilt. After an o
il change and screen-check, we fired up again and that compressor failed aft
er 40 minutes of flight time. We again had a safe landing. Same thing: the c
ylinder separated from the base - actually shearing the studs - and there we
re magnesium shavings everywhere, oil bath, etc. This time the compressor bl
ew off the top segment that retains the filter, as well as ripped through th
e safety wire holding the output fittings and these parts were ejected and l
ost in flight. These were signs of a very violent demise. I sent out both co
mpressors and there were enough good parts to build one (1) functional compr
essor. I also sent out the shear coupling and "crucifix" off the firewall to
verify the integrity of the check valves, pop-off valve and air filter. Upo
n its return, I re-installed it all and ran it on the ground, and it also st
arted to come apart. The cylinder had - once again - began to separate from t
he base of the compressor. Although we caught it early, on the ground, and t
his time the hold-down nuts had only begun to de-thread. I sent out that com
pressor and it was reassembled and deemed airworthy. This time I also replac
ed the drive gear and shear coupling - thinking maybe there was some bad geo
metry there - seeing as how there had been a fire and all - and the prior wr
enching on the aircraft seemed both minimal and questionable. After a few gr
ound runs, the compressor held up - but there was no evidence of the air rec
harging. Once again, I started pulling air lines to confirm clear passage. A
ll were good and there was no sign of any cracks, etc. I pulled the compress
or AGAIN (Sadly - I have this routine DOWN!) to verify that the shear coupli
ng was intact. It was. There was no sign of any "hydro-lock" - the popular a
nalysis from many. There was no sign of oil starvation - the 2nd most popula
r off-site diagnosis. I then went through all the firewall components. The L
AST item I pulled off and checked was the in-line air filter at the bottom o
f the firewall cluster. The dime-sized "wafer" element contained within was 1
00% blocked shut with an oily, rigid, carbon deposit. No air was capable of p
assing through it. For those unfamiliar w/ the system, this filter is THE fi
lter for the pneumatic system. It would appear my Yak had suffered a "stroke
." I pulled the element and temporarily re-installed the filter housing. Upo
n run-up, there was an immediately noticeable movement of the air gauge - th
e system was charging. I installed a new element. Where as before, I never e
xceeded 1:40 of run time without the compressor committing suicide, now - af
ter 39 hours of issue-free run / flight time, I feel reasonably safe in sayi
ng this was likely the cause of my many problems...a $17 air filter element.
I believe it was constricted when the plane came home. So some air was pass
ing. And as the constriction tightened, so did the life expectancy of the co
mpressor diminish.
>
> In sharing this info w/ a few other owners, the feedback was about a 70/30
split between "congrats" and "there's no way that was the problem." All I c
an offer is my compressor finally seems content to both take off AND land w/
the rest of the aircraft. I submit this info to the list in a humble attemp
t to possibly aid anyone encountering similar frustrations and considerable c
ost. I am not in the league of many who truly "know" these planes - but I ha
ve learned much simply through asking, experimenting and determination. I wa
s told several times by very qualified parties, "You are screwing something u
p." I wish it had been that simple. I would've happily eaten crow to abbrevi
ate this nearly 2-year, expensive and frustrating trouble-shooting journey. B
ut suffice to say, I am THRILLED it would appear I finally have a functional
aircraft. Parking N21YK in Warbirds at OSH was a personal victory that I wo
uld be hard-pressed to adequately put into words. It was a wonderful experie
nce to - at last - NOT be looking in from the outside.
>
> Next quest: FAST CARD! :)
>
> Cheers, Y'all!
>
> Rico Jaeger
> 915 S. 11th Ave.
> Wausau, WI. 54401
> 715.529.7426
> //
> 1966 Cessna 150F ^/---//-X
> N8558G //
> //
> 1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
> N21YK //
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> com
> ronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> ==========
> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
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>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Aerobatics Impacts on Props |
"What do worn rubbers look like?"
<snicker>
Please nobody send him pictures. Please.
Shaun
On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Steve Geard <stevegeard@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
> Thanks Mark. Yeah the front shaft seal is leaking a bit. A lot if I do a
> prolonged flat spin.
> A couple of people have mentioned worn engine mount rubber as a possible
> cause for harmonic vibration. I shall look to replace them in the next
> service.
> What do worn rubbers look like? The motor is very rigid and had no
> discernible play in the engine frame.
> Thank you for your post.
>
> Anyone got a set of engine mount rubbers available?
>
> --------
> SteveO
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428059#428059
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Aerobatics Impacts on Props |
You know this topic could go two ways from here! So what's it going to be? P
ictures of Wrinkled used latex or crinkled cracked compressed black rubber.
;^)
VD
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 5, 2014, at 9:01 PM, Shaun Dawson <scdawson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "What do worn rubbers look like?"
>
> <snicker>
>
> Please nobody send him pictures. Please.
>
> Shaun
>
>
>> On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Steve Geard <stevegeard@xtra.co.nz> wrote
:
>>
>> Thanks Mark. Yeah the front shaft seal is leaking a bit. A lot if I do a p
rolonged flat spin.
>> A couple of people have mentioned worn engine mount rubber as a possible c
ause for harmonic vibration. I shall look to replace them in the next servi
ce.
>> What do worn rubbers look like? The motor is very rigid and had no discer
nible play in the engine frame.
>> Thank you for your post.
>>
>> Anyone got a set of engine mount rubbers available?
>>
>> --------
>> SteveO
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428059#428059
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> ==========
>> MS -
>> k">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> e -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>
>
>
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>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Looking for a flight in NZ |
Hi all,
I am former Yak-52 driver down in Wanaka New Zealand for a couple of weeks
working with the Canadian para ski team and was looking to get a slightly
higher perspective of my surroundings=2E
If there are any Yak or CJ drivers around I would vwry much like to purcha
se some alcohol free fuel for your bird as well as some additional fuel wit
h alcohol post flight=2E=2E=2E
Cheers,
Joe
fly_eaa@yahoo=2Ecom
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: M14P mixture adjustment? |
How much adjustment should be done thru the set screws vs changing jets?
Are there actual measurements / gauges to be used in a proper setup like the
re is on a Continental / Lycoming or is it just all "TLAR"?
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd@fastaircraft.com
www.fastaircraft.com
> On Aug 5, 2014, at 6:22 PM, "Richard Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.co
m> wrote:
>
s.com>
>
> Firstly, different Russian aircraft seemed to have slightly different colo
ur
> coding for the CHT. All I was saying is that you should be looking for the
> right compensating jets that will allow you to have a maximum continuous
> climb out, and still remain within the yellow arc of CHT. If it rises beyo
nd
> that, then you should put in a smaller jet, for a richer mixture which wil
l
> make a significant difference.
>
> Of course there is a correlation between CHT and oil temperature and if on
e
> is high, it will take the other up a little amount. But not significantly.
I
> am only referring to CHT.
>
> Richard Goode
>
> Rhodds Farm
> Lyonshall
> Hereford
> HR5 3LW
> United Kingdom
> Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
> www.russianaeros.com
> I=99m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local p
hone is
> +94 779 132 160.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaBear
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 7:39 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
>
>
> Richard,
>
> My English may be a bit rusty, so I'm not sure I'm getting the point. :-)
Message 24
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|
I am guessing that it was about 10 years ago, and I remember seeing the
fuselage under repair at Sukhoi. The extent of the damage was extraordinary,
and I suspect in a less strong aircraft and at altitude the results could
have been far worse.
As I wrote before, I have heard many good things about Whirlwind props, and
I'm sure they will be able to tell you exactly what happened and what they
have done to prevent any recurrence.
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Egon
Sent: 05 August 2014 22:36
Subject: Yak-List: Re: MT Prop TBO
Hi Richard.
Do you have more details on the blade failure Yurgis had with his Whirlwind,
eg when, prop model, any results of the investigation? As a Whirlwind owner,
I would be very interested to know what happened.
Cheers Egon.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428054#428054
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Message 25
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It is clear that MT has handled this poorly with a lack of communication - I
will see what I can do directly with them.
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: 05 August 2014 19:19
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: MT Prop TBO
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
When did you purchased this prop Chris? I ran into this issue myself in
2004/2005 time frame. If this shop sold you this prop AFTER that year, then
I would offer that they might have committed fraud, plain and simple. That
is at least my opinion based on conversations with MT, a few emails from
Richard, and more than a few folks in Russia.
And Richard... it would probably be a good thing if MT told the world about
these Russian props, that they included the details and their refusal to
service them at EVERY SERVICE CENTER OUT THERE, and also put word of it on
their WEB SITE along with a complete method by which to identify them.
This would be the responsable and professional thing to do in order to keep
their present and potential customers from being burnt. That would be a
lot better than an occasional email on the YAK List. That being said, this
is yet another reason why I look at MT somewhat askance. Hey, I get that
it makes sense to Germans.
Let's look at the facts. You say it was manufactured illegally, did not
have MT certification, and by definition is not airworthy.
But in reality, "If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a
.... um... ah... IT'S A GOOSE"...... well, how are people supposed to KNOW
that? I believe the reality is that ORIGINALLY Russia was supposed to be
able to LEGALLY manufacture these props, but "the deal fell through" and why
that exactly happened is open to a lot of hear-say and interpretation.
Chris got screwed. And MT holds part of the blame. The percentage to be
determined.
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] on behalf of Chris Ober
[christopherjober@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: MT Prop TBO
It was purchased from Aircraft Propeller Services, Inc. in Wheeling, IL.
They are a MT approved shop listed on the MT website for certified service
shops. Needing service I called them and they informed me that even though
they sold it, they cannot service it. They knew exactly what it was
(Russian) when they sold it. Only now under direction from MT in Florida
(corporate USA) they cannot service the prop. They said they use to be able
to service them. Now they can not. It's as simple as that.
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 5, 2014, at 11:18 AM, "Richard Goode"
<richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
--> <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
Of course, I know nothing about the particular circumstances of your
propeller. But, are you saying that an official MT agent sold you this
(Russian) propeller; installed it and now won't support it? Or, are you
saying that you obtained the propeller and had it installed on your plane by
an MT agent? If the first, then I suggest they have a strong responsibility
to continue to support it. But I suspect the practicality is the second
case, and if so, I would agree with their position. To be specific, did they
know what prop it was before installing it?
Then, you are being rather simplistic to think that MT are going to look for
reasons not to service your prop - why on earth would they do that, except
in this very particular case of removing props from service that were
manufactured illegally; did not have MT certification so were, by
definition, not legally airworthy.
Richard
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com<http://www.russianaeros.com/>
I'm currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Ober
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: MT Prop TBO
MT "blacked out" these propellers so now they are screwing their customers.
My prop was bought and installed by a MT prop shop in Illinois. MT tried to
tell me it shouldn't have been brought into the country. They were trying to
blame someone when it was one if their approved service companies that sold
and installed it! Now when I try to go back to the same company that
installed it, they won't touch it. They're telling me that MT won't allow
it. They're using the Russian made excuse to not servicing my prop. They
allowed this prop to go to a factory approved center, be installed, then
refuse to service it?! What's to stop them from using another excuse next
time? I for one will not risk buying another 'single use' prop only to be
stuck with a wall ornament!
Chris
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 5, 2014, at 7:18 AM, "Richard Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
wrote:
--> <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
I will try to set some issues straight:
To make my position clear, I am biased in favour of MT props, firstly
because I sell them and secondly because I really believe they are good. For
me a really important aspect is that they are fully certificated and if you
have had, like me, a propeller failure on a "experimental" propeller you
certainly would never want to have it again!
Then, MT will overhaul any prop of theirs, however old or however much
beyond the TBO.
In terms of the Russian MT props, the situation is simply that MT gave a
licence to Speriot in Russia to make MTV-9 props, on the basis that they
would be given a certain royalty for each propeller produced. In the event,
the Russians only declared every second? third? Propeller that they made, so
clearly saved a huge amount on royalty fees! It took MT a while to realise
what was happening since these Russian props with serial numbers that had
never been declared to MT started coming back to the factory or MT overseas
agents for overhaul.
So MT decided to "black" all these Russian props, which simply means that
you cannot get them overhauled, and since the Russian factory is no longer
in business, owners of these props will end up with quite expensive
ornaments. Because of our relationship with MT they have allowed us to buy
some of these Russian props that they themselves have bought in, but
strictly for non-aviation use, and we have made a number of "wind machines"
with these props and M 14 P engines for film studios.
I have heard excellent reports of the Whirlwind propellers, but I will
always have the basic concern about the lack of certification and the test
program that this implies. Yurgis Kairis had a catastrophic failure when an
entire blade departed from his Whirlwind on his Sukhoi 31. The forces tore
the gearbox from the crankcase; broke most of the engine mounts and a lot of
other frame tubes. Fortunately he was at low altitude with a long runway
ahead. Having said that, I am sure that appropriate modifications were
subsequently made.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com<http://www.russianaeros.com/>
I'm currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 8:17 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: MT Prop TBO
When MT blades are overhauled they are only done in Germany from what I
understand. The blades are stripped, inspected, repaired, re-glassed,
painted and a new stainless edge is installed and your time starts over..
The Hub can be overhauled in the states and all service bulletins are
complied with and there are some of those. At overhaul all the seals ,
bolts and basically anything that get wear or tightened is replaced.
I got the distinct impression that if you needed a repair after TBO that
would not happen per a agreement with MT. Same as the Russian MT , No
Service at all on those. Someone can correct me but that is what I ran
into.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427994#427994
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Message 26
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I would say that that is completely unacceptable, and that they have a strong moral
and commercial obligation to you to resolve the problem that they have created,
even if unwittingly.
I would also suggest that you write directly to Gerd Muhlbauer, the owner of MT
and complain directly.
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Ober
Sent: 05 August 2014 18:05
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: MT Prop TBO
It was purchased from Aircraft Propeller Services, Inc. in Wheeling, IL. They are
a MT approved shop listed on the MT website for certified service shops. Needing
service I called them and they informed me that even though they sold it,
they cannot service it. They knew exactly what it was (Russian) when they sold
it. Only now under direction from MT in Florida (corporate USA) they cannot
service the prop. They said they use to be able to service them. Now they can
not. It's as simple as that.
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 5, 2014, at 11:18 AM, "Richard Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
--> <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
Of course, I know nothing about the particular circumstances of your propeller.
But, are you saying that an official MT agent sold you this (Russian) propeller;
installed it and now won't support it? Or, are you saying that you obtained
the propeller and had it installed on your plane by an MT agent? If the first,
then I suggest they have a strong responsibility to continue to support it.
But I suspect the practicality is the second case, and if so, I would agree with
their position. To be specific, did they know what prop it was before installing
it?
Then, you are being rather simplistic to think that MT are going to look for reasons
not to service your prop why on earth would they do that, except in this
very particular case of removing props from service that were manufactured illegally;
did not have MT certification so were, by definition, not legally airworthy.
Richard
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is +94 779
132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Ober
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: MT Prop TBO
MT "blacked out" these propellers so now they are screwing their customers. My
prop was bought and installed by a MT prop shop in Illinois. MT tried to tell
me it shouldn't have been brought into the country. They were trying to blame
someone when it was one if their approved service companies that sold and installed
it! Now when I try to go back to the same company that installed it, they
won't touch it. They're telling me that MT won't allow it. They're using the
Russian made excuse to not servicing my prop. They allowed this prop to go to
a factory approved center, be installed, then refuse to service it?! What's to
stop them from using another excuse next time? I for one will not risk buying
another 'single use' prop only to be stuck with a wall ornament!
Chris
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 5, 2014, at 7:18 AM, "Richard Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
--> <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
I will try to set some issues straight:
To make my position clear, I am biased in favour of MT props, firstly because I
sell them and secondly because I really believe they are good. For me a really
important aspect is that they are fully certificated and if you have had, like
me, a propeller failure on a "experimental" propeller you certainly would never
want to have it again!
Then, MT will overhaul any prop of theirs, however old or however much beyond the
TBO.
In terms of the Russian MT props, the situation is simply that MT gave a licence
to Speriot in Russia to make MTV-9 props, on the basis that they would be given
a certain royalty for each propeller produced. In the event, the Russians
only declared every second? third? Propeller that they made, so clearly saved
a huge amount on royalty fees! It took MT a while to realise what was happening
since these Russian props with serial numbers that had never been declared to
MT started coming back to the factory or MT overseas agents for overhaul.
So MT decided to "black" all these Russian props, which simply means that you cannot
get them overhauled, and since the Russian factory is no longer in business,
owners of these props will end up with quite expensive ornaments. Because
of our relationship with MT they have allowed us to buy some of these Russian
props that they themselves have bought in, but strictly for non-aviation use,
and we have made a number of "wind machines"
with these props and M 14 P engines for film studios.
I have heard excellent reports of the Whirlwind propellers, but I will always have
the basic concern about the lack of certification and the test program that
this implies. Yurgis Kairis had a catastrophic failure when an entire blade
departed from his Whirlwind on his Sukhoi 31. The forces tore the gearbox from
the crankcase; broke most of the engine mounts and a lot of other frame tubes.
Fortunately he was at low altitude with a long runway ahead. Having said that,
I am sure that appropriate modifications were subsequently made.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 8:17 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: MT Prop TBO
When MT blades are overhauled they are only done in Germany from what I understand.
The blades are stripped, inspected, repaired, re-glassed, painted and a
new stainless edge is installed and your time starts over..
The Hub can be overhauled in the states and all service bulletins are complied
with and there are some of those. At overhaul all the seals , bolts and basically
anything that get wear or tightened is replaced.
I got the distinct impression that if you needed a repair after TBO that would
not happen per a agreement with MT. Same as the Russian MT , No Service at all
on those. Someone can correct me but that is what I ran into.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427994#427994
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Message 27
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| Subject: | M14P mixture adjustment? |
You really do need to know what you're doing before you start adjusting
the screws on the carburettor, because so much of the consequences are
interdependent between the different adjustments. The M 14 P manual in
theory contains everything you need to know, but I have seen people get
themselves into major complications!
However, changing the suction jets is simple; quick, and easily
reversible. Also the most simple method of controlling CHT, whether high
or low.
Richard
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd McCutchan
Sent: 06 August 2014 05:54
Subject: Re: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
How much adjustment should be done thru the set screws vs changing jets?
Are there actual measurements / gauges to be used in a proper setup like
there is on a Continental / Lycoming or is it just all "TLAR"?
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd@fastaircraft.com <mailto:todd@fastaircraft.com>
www.fastaircraft.com <http://www.fastaircraft.com>
On Aug 5, 2014, at 6:22 PM, "Richard Goode"
<richard.goode@russianaeros.com <mailto:richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
> wrote:
<richard.goode@russianaeros.com <mailto:richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
>
Firstly, different Russian aircraft seemed to have slightly different
colour
coding for the CHT. All I was saying is that you should be looking for
the
right compensating jets that will allow you to have a maximum continuous
climb out, and still remain within the yellow arc of CHT. If it rises
beyond
that, then you should put in a smaller jet, for a richer mixture which
will
make a significant difference.
Of course there is a correlation between CHT and oil temperature and if
one
is high, it will take the other up a little amount. But not
significantly. I
am only referring to CHT.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com>
I=99m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local
phone is
+94 779 132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaBear
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 7:39 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
<mailto:dabear@damned.org> >
Richard,
My English may be a bit rusty, so I'm not sure I'm getting the point.
:-)
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