Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:11 AM - Yak 18 T Gyro Horizon Indicator (Mark Willard)
2. 08:53 AM - Re: Yak 18 T Gyro Horizon Indicator (Richard Goode)
3. 08:58 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Tank Repairs (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
4. 09:07 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Tank Repairs (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
5. 09:48 AM - Re: Yak 18 T Gyro Horizon Indicator (doug sapp)
6. 11:17 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Tank Repairs (Roger Kemp)
7. 11:59 AM - Re: Yak 18 T Gyro Horizon Indicator (Hans Oortman)
8. 05:40 PM - Re: Yak 18 T Gyro Horizon Indicator (Mark Willard)
9. 10:11 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Tank Repairs (Walter Lannon)
10. 11:22 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Tank Repairs (John Fischer)
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| Subject: | Yak 18 T Gyro Horizon Indicator |
Wondering if anyone on the list has any experience on the 11225 gyro horizon indicator
on Yak 18T's. I have traced by elimination a fault to the dash mounted
indicator. I then disassembled the instrument and have found 1 of the 2 amplifiers
/ drive units in the rear of the unit is the source of the short circuit.
Can anyone suggest source or spares or may have a surplus unit that I could
purchase. Going to all this trouble as I want to keep the aircraft as original
as possible.
Mark
Sent from my iPad
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| Subject: | Yak 18 T Gyro Horizon Indicator |
When they are working, these horizons are a beautiful bit of kit. But they
can be a nightmare when they start going wrong, and my personal view is that
it is a mistake to be a slave to originality! Another angle to remember is
that, in total, it is an extremely heavy instrument in that you first of all
need a DC/AC inverter; a very big remote gyro behind the cockpit and then,
finally, the display instrument.
If you get rid of all of those and replace it with something electronic like
a Dynon 10 you will save a huge amount of weight; give yourself solid-state
reliability, and add other features which the original instrument does not
have!
Just my personal view.
Richard Goode
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Willard
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 5:40 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Yak 18 T Gyro Horizon Indicator
Wondering if anyone on the list has any experience on the 11225 gyro horizon
indicator on Yak 18T's. I have traced by elimination a fault to the dash
mounted indicator. I then disassembled the instrument and have found 1 of
the 2 amplifiers / drive units in the rear of the unit is the source of the
short circuit. Can anyone suggest source or spares or may have a surplus
unit that I could purchase. Going to all this trouble as I want to keep the
aircraft as original as possible.
Mark
Sent from my iPad
--
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Repairs |
Dale,
I do not believe anyone recommended "sloshing compound", which by the way, I would
not recommend either.
What was recommended was Pro Seal which is an 8802 MILSPEC based compound which
is specifically created (and used extensively in the military) to seal a leak
of this exact type. This is an external sealant, and is not put inside the
tank. The only caution is to follow the instructions to the letter regarding
cleaning and prep of surfaces.
I would NOT recommend "welding it" given the nature and location of this leak for
a variety of reasons.
Welding these type of tanks is tricky business and FYI, I have used 8802 sealant
on a tank leak in my 50 that has passed muster for 14 years without a problem.
I think that kind of speaks for itself, also given that we used the exact
same stuff on multiple military aircraft.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 6:35 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Fuel Tank Repairs
Weld it. You will be damn sorry you used sloshing compound down the road.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428580#428580
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Repairs |
Dale,
OK, I take it back... some less than bright person unnamed somewhere along the
line did recommend sloshing compound. Ooops. Sorry. I had to go back reading
through all of the message strings to get it out of the original message
Rico wrote.
Rico,
If you want to weld it, there is an old trick that actually works to prevent tank
explosions... basically the proper way to do this is to constantly vent the
tank with an inert gas like water pumped nitrogen to displace fuel fumes. If
you really want to do it right, there is a compound sold that you put in the
tank, fill it full of water and let it sit for about a week. The old time welders
trick is to put a hose on the exhaust of a running car, lawn mower, etc.,
, and put that hose inside of the fuel tank. The carbon monoxide gas will displace
and absorb oxygen and a spark will not cause the tank to explode. This
actually works, and I have done it myself. Take some brass "you know what"
to do it though.
The best fix under the circumstances is ProSeal or any 8802 based compound. Never-the-less,
the tank still is going to need to be cleaned down to bare metal
and thus using the exhaust fumes into the tank trick is still a good idea even
if all you're using on the thing is a wire brush. Whatever you do, do something...
even filling it full of water while prepping it. It is real bomb waiting
to go off otherwise.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Fuel Tank Repairs
Dale,
I do not believe anyone recommended "sloshing compound", which by the way, I would
not recommend either.
What was recommended was Pro Seal which is an 8802 MILSPEC based compound which
is specifically created (and used extensively in the military) to seal a leak
of this exact type. This is an external sealant, and is not put inside the
tank. The only caution is to follow the instructions to the letter regarding
cleaning and prep of surfaces.
I would NOT recommend "welding it" given the nature and location of this leak for
a variety of reasons.
Welding these type of tanks is tricky business and FYI, I have used 8802 sealant
on a tank leak in my 50 that has passed muster for 14 years without a problem.
I think that kind of speaks for itself, also given that we used the exact
same stuff on multiple military aircraft.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 6:35 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Fuel Tank Repairs
Weld it. You will be damn sorry you used sloshing compound down the road.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428580#428580
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 18 T Gyro Horizon Indicator |
Mark,
I have one, please contact me off list
Best,
Doug Sapp
509-826-4610
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 5:10 AM, Mark Willard <vindscreenmw@bigpond.com>
wrote:
>
> Wondering if anyone on the list has any experience on the 11225 gyro
> horizon indicator on Yak 18T's. I have traced by elimination a fault to
> the dash mounted indicator. I then disassembled the instrument and have
> found 1 of the 2 amplifiers / drive units in the rear of the unit is the
> source of the short circuit. Can anyone suggest source or spares or may
> have a surplus unit that I could purchase. Going to all this trouble as I
> want to keep the aircraft as original as possible.
>
> Mark
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Repairs |
Ditto. ProSealed my main tank in the 50 5 years ago. Works great. After cleaning
the tank down to bar metal, I applied a dye penetrant to re-define the crack.
Then sanded the surface with coarse sand paper to rough up the surface real
well. I then applied Pro Seal to the external surface ( the part I hand sanded
down to bare metal).
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 18, 2014, at 10:56 AM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
wrote:
>
>
> Dale,
>
> I do not believe anyone recommended "sloshing compound", which by the way, I
would not recommend either.
>
> What was recommended was Pro Seal which is an 8802 MILSPEC based compound which
is specifically created (and used extensively in the military) to seal a leak
of this exact type. This is an external sealant, and is not put inside the
tank. The only caution is to follow the instructions to the letter regarding
cleaning and prep of surfaces.
>
> I would NOT recommend "welding it" given the nature and location of this leak
for a variety of reasons.
>
> Welding these type of tanks is tricky business and FYI, I have used 8802 sealant
on a tank leak in my 50 that has passed muster for 14 years without a problem.
I think that kind of speaks for itself, also given that we used the exact
same stuff on multiple military aircraft.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale
> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 6:35 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Fuel Tank Repairs
>
>
> Weld it. You will be damn sorry you used sloshing compound down the road.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428580#428580
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 18 T Gyro Horizon Indicator |
I am replacing mine in my YAK52 with the new Ultra EFIS of AvMap, 200
grams(!) of high tech with all the functionality you can imagine in one
single instrument.....
I agre with Richard, replace it with modern electronics..
Hans O.
PH-YAK
Op 18-08-14 17:52, Richard Goode <richard.goode@russianaeros.com> schreef:
> <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
>
> When they are working, these horizons are a beautiful bit of kit. But they
> can be a nightmare when they start going wrong, and my personal view is that
> it is a mistake to be a slave to originality! Another angle to remember is
> that, in total, it is an extremely heavy instrument in that you first of all
> need a DC/AC inverter; a very big remote gyro behind the cockpit and then,
> finally, the display instrument.
>
> If you get rid of all of those and replace it with something electronic like
> a Dynon 10 you will save a huge amount of weight; give yourself solid-state
> reliability, and add other features which the original instrument does not
> have!
>
> Just my personal view.
>
> Richard Goode
> Rhodds Farm
> Lyonshall
> Hereford
> HR5 3LW
> United Kingdom
> Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
> www.russianaeros.com
> Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
> +94 779 132 160.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Willard
> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 5:40 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Yak 18 T Gyro Horizon Indicator
>
>
> Wondering if anyone on the list has any experience on the 11225 gyro horizon
> indicator on Yak 18T's. I have traced by elimination a fault to the dash
> mounted indicator. I then disassembled the instrument and have found 1 of
> the 2 amplifiers / drive units in the rear of the unit is the source of the
> short circuit. Can anyone suggest source or spares or may have a surplus
> unit that I could purchase. Going to all this trouble as I want to keep the
> aircraft as original as possible.
>
> Mark
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by
> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 18 T Gyro Horizon Indicator |
Richard,
Thanks for you reply re Yak 18T A.I. I am not a slave to originality, its my
wife's aeroplane, guess it makes me her slave.
Tried to sell her on the Dynon last time we were at Oshkosh, no luck.
Have had a couple of offers though for used units off the list
Thanks
Mark Willard
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 19, 2014, at 1:52 AM, "Richard Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
wrote:
>
>
> When they are working, these horizons are a beautiful bit of kit. But they
> can be a nightmare when they start going wrong, and my personal view is that
> it is a mistake to be a slave to originality! Another angle to remember is
> that, in total, it is an extremely heavy instrument in that you first of all
> need a DC/AC inverter; a very big remote gyro behind the cockpit and then,
> finally, the display instrument.
>
> If you get rid of all of those and replace it with something electronic like
> a Dynon 10 you will save a huge amount of weight; give yourself solid-state
> reliability, and add other features which the original instrument does not
> have!
>
> Just my personal view.
>
> Richard Goode
> Rhodds Farm
> Lyonshall
> Hereford
> HR5 3LW
> United Kingdom
> Tel: +94 (0) 81 241 5137 (Sri Lanka)
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
> www.russianaeros.com
> Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
> +94 779 132 160.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Willard
> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 5:40 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Yak 18 T Gyro Horizon Indicator
>
>
> Wondering if anyone on the list has any experience on the 11225 gyro horizon
> indicator on Yak 18T's. I have traced by elimination a fault to the dash
> mounted indicator. I then disassembled the instrument and have found 1 of
> the 2 amplifiers / drive units in the rear of the unit is the source of the
> short circuit. Can anyone suggest source or spares or may have a surplus
> unit that I could purchase. Going to all this trouble as I want to keep the
> aircraft as original as possible.
>
> Mark
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by
> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Repairs |
Mark;
There are a number of aerospace fuel tank sealants that meet MIL S 8802.
Pro Seal is a PPG product. I believe PPG and the traditional DE-Soto
products (PR 1422, etc.) are now all under the same banner as PRC (Products
Research Corp.)
All that meet MIL S 8802 are intended for internal sealing of integral fuel
tanks.
That is not to say that they cannot be used externally given correct surface
preparation. But sealing of a crack in this manner is questionable in that
they are (and need to be) flexible and in no way will they stop a crack from
progressing if the forces causing the crack are still extant.
I too would not recommend sloshing compounds.
Walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 8:56 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Fuel Tank Repairs
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Dale,
I do not believe anyone recommended "sloshing compound", which by the way, I
would not recommend either.
What was recommended was Pro Seal which is an 8802 MILSPEC based compound
which is specifically created (and used extensively in the military) to seal
a leak of this exact type. This is an external sealant, and is not put
inside the tank. The only caution is to follow the instructions to the
letter regarding cleaning and prep of surfaces.
I would NOT recommend "welding it" given the nature and location of this
leak for a variety of reasons.
Welding these type of tanks is tricky business and FYI, I have used 8802
sealant on a tank leak in my 50 that has passed muster for 14 years without
a problem. I think that kind of speaks for itself, also given that we used
the exact same stuff on multiple military aircraft.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 6:35 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Fuel Tank Repairs
Weld it. You will be damn sorry you used sloshing compound down the road.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428580#428580
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Repairs |
Rico,
I once TIG welded an aluminum top fuel racing fuel tank. I stop drilled the cracks
to relieve the stresses. Then filled the tank 3/4 full of water and, purged
with carbon dioxide, before TIG welding the crack.
Later in the Air Force, as a fuel system mechanic, I used the 8802 sealants to
seal fuel tanks on aircraft. Probably the easiest method for you to use would
be the 8802 sealant method. Follow the directions for prepping the area. Attempt
to locate the ends of the cracks, and stop drill them to relieve the stress.
(Sometimes when you drill what you believe to be the end, you discover the crack
continues past your drill point. If so, continue drilling a little bit further
until you locate the end), (another procedure I have used welding cast iron,
is to use a small disc and open the crack to locate the end).
While we normally used the sealant inside the tanks. but occasionally a field expedient
repair was to use it outside to stop the leak. Then when we got more
time, we would enter the tank and do leak path analysis and scrap the sealant
inside the tank and reseal. One leak on a KC-135, showed up approx 10' away from
where the leak was inside the tank.
I believe the sealant will outlive your using the aircraft, and if not it would
be simple to redo the repair again.
Good luck
John Fischer
Yak-52, N213YA
BT-13, project
L-5, project (x3)
PT-19, project (x2)
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 18, 2014, at 10:09 PM, "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Mark;
>
> There are a number of aerospace fuel tank sealants that meet MIL S 8802. Pro
Seal is a PPG product. I believe PPG and the traditional DE-Soto products (PR
1422, etc.) are now all under the same banner as PRC (Products Research Corp.)
> All that meet MIL S 8802 are intended for internal sealing of integral fuel tanks.
> That is not to say that they cannot be used externally given correct surface
preparation. But sealing of a crack in this manner is questionable in that they
are (and need to be) flexible and in no way will they stop a crack from progressing
if the forces causing the crack are still extant.
> I too would not recommend sloshing compounds.
>
> Walt
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 8:56 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Fuel Tank Repairs
>
>
> Dale,
>
> I do not believe anyone recommended "sloshing compound", which by the way, I
would not recommend either.
>
> What was recommended was Pro Seal which is an 8802 MILSPEC based compound which
is specifically created (and used extensively in the military) to seal a leak
of this exact type. This is an external sealant, and is not put inside the
tank. The only caution is to follow the instructions to the letter regarding
cleaning and prep of surfaces.
>
> I would NOT recommend "welding it" given the nature and location of this leak
for a variety of reasons.
>
> Welding these type of tanks is tricky business and FYI, I have used 8802 sealant
on a tank leak in my 50 that has passed muster for 14 years without a problem.
I think that kind of speaks for itself, also given that we used the exact
same stuff on multiple military aircraft.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale
> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 6:35 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Fuel Tank Repairs
>
>
> Weld it. You will be damn sorry you used sloshing compound down the road.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428580#428580
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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