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1. 08:21 AM - Re: Air system Flush (Todd McCutchan)
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| Subject: | Re: Air system Flush |
Thunderbird Cylinder in Phoenix tests them for $25.
http://www.thunderbirdcylinder.com
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd@fastaircraft.com
www.fastaircraft.com
> On Aug 25, 2014, at 8:31 PM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc@me.com> wrote:
>
> Apple what a trip! DOT.
> DOC
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Aug 25, 2014, at 9:59 PM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc@me.com> wrote:
>>
>> By a place in LA. Have to dig back through my notes. I have the contact i
nfo in some of my junk. Working on a place in Ga. That will do it also since
they do not have to carry a DZoZt cert.
>> Doc
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Aug 25, 2014, at 4:10 PM, Gary Gabbard <ggg6@att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have had my air bottles hydro checked by Jill and Carl at M-14P. They
have a Way of doing it. Gary Gbbard. LAS. N22YK.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>> On Aug 25, 2014, at 10:40, Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Dennis,
>>>>
>>>> Currently looking for someone locally. Also perusing the archives for t
he size of the bottle fitting, unless someone already knows that off hand :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 1:32 PM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bel
lsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>> Call Doug. He can give you the name of the company that cleans and te
sts the bottles for the CJ. You can also call Jill at M14P and she can have
the bottles tested. I'm certain neither requires DOT approval.
>>>>> Dennis
>>>>> A. Dennis Savarese
>>>>> 334-285-6263
>>>>> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
>>>>> www.yak-52.com
>>>>> Skype - Yakguy1
>>>>>> On 8/25/2014 12:24 PM, Ernest Martinez wrote:
>>>>>> I have been enlightened through back channels of DOT approved hydro t
esters on the bottles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ernie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 1:19 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <m
ark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You might also consider a bore scope to look for signs of internal c
orrosion on the bottles themselves.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am not sure what you mean by saying the bottles are not "DOT appro
ved". Nothing in the aircraft is approved by anyone in this country, hence t
he Experimental status of the aircraft, and the whole reason for "Conditiona
l Inspections", which basically say to the FAA that the aircraft is in a saf
e "condition" to fly for another year.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is true that various owners have replaced the original bottles wi
th other designs, usually due to a lack of OEM parts. Regarding getting th
e stock bottles tested, my view boils down to the simple question of "should
you get them tested or not get them tested"? The answer (to me) is an ob
vious "yes", in that the bottle is removed, the interior inspected for corro
sion, and the bottle is tested to verify that it can hold recommended pressu
res safely. The goal is not to get a DOT certification of the bottle itself
, but to simply verify that it is safe using standard high pressure bottle p
rocedures.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I understand the IA's concern as his mind goes to standard aircraft c
ertification immediately and not Experimental. The actual issue might be th
at in certain cases hydro testing stations will refuse to do the
testing due to the lack of a DOT stamp on the bottle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the end it is up to the individual owner of the aircraft to make s
uch decisions working with the A&P mechanic in due course of his aircraft's m
aintenance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-ser
ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 12:56 PM
>>>>>>> To: yak-list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system Flush
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When you open up a diverter valve and see it encrusted with rust and
gunk, and the log books show repeated replacement of Flap and Gear valves a
nd actuators, then you assume that the air system was NOT maintained properl
y. So......I'm pulling all the diverters since they act like little sediment
traps, and rebuilding them all, AND I'm going to assume that all this rust a
nd gunk is throughout the air system. Which also means pulling the air bottl
es cause who knows what shape they're in and is probably the source of the r
ust. Log books say they were Hydro tested last year, but I don't believe any
thing that was written by a particular mechanic for a Well Known CJ importer
/builder/seller, after some of the things I've found.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually a very trusted IA that I know brought up an interesting poi
nt yesterday. How in the world can we legally get these bottles Hydro Tested
? They're not DOT approved. Maybe I'm missing something. I'm actually consid
ering just using Scuba bottles instead.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ernie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
IR, WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As regards "conflicting reports" when all else fails read th
e manual. Task cards indicate the exact amount of "what" and exactly "wher
e" a very small amount is to be put in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As far as injecting "Air Tool Oil", that is an urban legend t
hat can usually be traced back to some previous owner saying "He did it all t
he time", and if you go back still further, you can find it in the Yak List A
rchives going back 12 years or so ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is no instruction for "flushing the lines out", but if
that action was deemed necessary for whatever reason, the best course of ac
tion would be to isolate the line by disconnecting it at both ends, and then
blowing it out with an inert gas such as nitrogen. I'd be very curious as t
o how the pneumatic air lines in these aircraft would ever get to the point o
f needing "flushing", especially if filters are maintained.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That said, "Air Tool Oil" can indeed cause rapid deteriorati
on of the seals used in the landing gear actuators of a YAK-50. I know from
very close and up front personal experience in my aircraft after following t
hat advice from the YAK List recommendations, many many years ago which gave
me my first experience using Emergency Gear Blow Down.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But it is not really quite as simple as that. A lot of this
issue has to do with the age of the seals, and whether they have been repla
ced (actuators rebuilt) recently, and what material might have been used wit
h the new seals. Over time the original seals tend to harden. If a seal s
uch as this is exposed to Pneumatic Tool Oil, the seals will soften and then
break apart. This is why some folks who have put this "stuff" into their s
ystems have seen immediate failure and others have not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the end, I tend to stick with what the original manufactu
rer of these aircraft recommended and let everyone else deba
te the wisdom of putting a foreign substance into such a critical component a
s landing gear actuators. A smart move might be to remove, rebuild, and th
en replace all actuators on these aircraft on some type of scheduled basis, a
nd not fly them until failure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mark Bitterlich
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-
list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 8:32 AM
>>>>>>> To: yak-list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air system Flush
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm hearing conflicting reports about that. Not sure what is
accurate. I'll just use castor oil to be safe.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ernie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc@me
.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ernie,
>>>>>>> As I understand, the Chinese rubber does not like to
ol oil.
>>>>>>> Doc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 24, 2014, at 2:05 PM, Ernest Martinez <erniel
29@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone have any suggestions on flushing out t
he air lines of a CJ? I was just thinking of injecting a little tool oil jus
t beyond the desiccant, and disconnect the B-Nuts at all the actuators and t
hen empty a few scuba bottles through the systems while actuating the Gear a
nd Flap handles.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thoughts???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ernie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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>>>>>>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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>>>>>>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Y
ak-List
>>>>>>> ==========
>>>>>>> FORUMS -
>>>>>>> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>>>>> ==========
>>>>>>> b Site -
>>>>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>>>>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>>>> ==========
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ==========
>>>>>>> List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>>>>>>> ==========
>>>>>>> FORUMS -
>>>>>>> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>>>>> ==========
>>>>>>> b Site -
>>>>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>>>>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>>>> ==========
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>>>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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>>> ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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>>>
>>
>>
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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>> ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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>> //forums.matronics.com
>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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>>
>
>
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>
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