Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:00 AM - Re: loss of main air (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
2. 07:06 AM - Fw: loss of main air (KingCJ6@aol.com)
3. 08:52 AM - Advice Needed (michaelrorth)
4. 09:06 AM - Re: Advice Needed (doug sapp)
5. 09:51 AM - Re: Advice Needed (Hank Gibson)
6. 10:34 AM - M14B into CJ6 (Richard Goode)
7. 11:51 AM - Re: M14B into CJ6 (Pappy)
8. 01:09 PM - Re: M14B into CJ6 (Pappy)
9. 02:26 PM - Re: Advice Needed (Roger Kemp)
10. 02:49 PM - Re: Advice Needed (A. Dennis Savarese)
11. 07:13 PM - Re: Advice Needed (Michael Orth)
12. 08:47 PM - Re: Advice Needed (Roger Kemp)
Message 1
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| Subject: | loss of main air |
If you happen to have a source of compressed air (no more than 750 PSI, but even
less will work, and the correct adapter fittings, do this:
Disconnect any fitting downstream of the snot valve, .... even at the snot valve
itself is OK... on the downstream side.
Connect the air to blow BACKWARDS through the snot valve to the engine air compressor.
After you apply pressure, listen for leaks and use whatever method you have on
hand to find them. This will find most leaks, including at the Banjo fitting,
without having to take the whole mess apart. Remember that if you take the
whole Banjo fitting apart, you are going to need new aluminum crush washers.
If you fail to replace them, you are just asking for more leaks. Trust me on
this one. You can tighten them up and POSSIBLY get them to seal again, but just
not a wise move.
I've done the above to find leaks in this section more than once on Yaks and Sukes,
but never on a CJ. Never worked on a CJ sorry to say.
If you can't find any leaks, and you cannot get the thing to pressurize, then you
probably have the one way poppet valve in the Banjo itself that is not seating,
and air is going back into the compressor itself. Again all the previous
advice from everyone else is correct, take it apart and clean it thoroughly.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Holoman
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 10:42 PM
Subject: Yak-List: loss of main air
If You are losing air from the compressor to the snot valve, you need to look for
a leak starting at the banjo fitting, flare fittings at both ends of your steel
line and or your check valve leaving your compressor that can be plugged
up. Any one or a combination of the above mentioned has to be the problem if otherwise
your system is holding pressure.
Good luck, Mike
________________________________
From: l129bs@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: loss of main air
snot valve not seating properly.
On Oct 28, 2014, at 3:19 AM, Philip Nicholson <pednicholson@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
I have replaced my main air valve and flap handle valve recently.
No issues immediately thereafter. Air system behaved normally.
A month later, and three flights in a row, I have not been able to generate
over 30 bars. It just stays there. When I land, I bleed off an additional
five with flaps and brakes etc. With the engine off and Main air open, I use
an external tank to fill to 50 bars. I hear no hissing whatsoever. Also of
note, my snot valve after landing has little to no pressure. Goo just slowly
drips/oozes out.
Any thoughts on where to start?
Thanks,
Phil Nicholson
CJ6A - C-FEPN
pednicholson@gmail.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
Message 2
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| Subject: | loss of main air |
Before any of this process, I'd suggest you first check the spring that
keeps the valve closed. I've seen this come loose, or not have enough
tension on several CJ's, which causes exactly this problem.
Dave King
____________________________________
From: mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
Sent: 10/28/2014 6:18:11 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time
Subj: RE: Yak-List: loss of main air
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
If you happen to have a source of compressed air (no more than 750 PSI,
but even less will work, and the correct adapter fittings, do this:
Disconnect any fitting downstream of the snot valve, .... even at the snot
valve itself is OK... on the downstream side.
Connect the air to blow BACKWARDS through the snot valve to the engine air
compressor.
After you apply pressure, listen for leaks and use whatever method you
have on hand to find them. This will find most leaks, including at the Banjo
fitting, without having to take the whole mess apart. Remember that if
you take the whole Banjo fitting apart, you are going to need new aluminum
crush washers. If you fail to replace them, you are just asking for more
leaks. Trust me on this one. You can tighten them up and POSSIBLY get them
to seal again, but just not a wise move.
I've done the above to find leaks in this section more than once on Yaks
and Sukes, but never on a CJ. Never worked on a CJ sorry to say.
If you can't find any leaks, and you cannot get the thing to pressurize,
then you probably have the one way poppet valve in the Banjo itself that is
not seating, and air is going back into the compressor itself. Again all
the previous advice from everyone else is correct, take it apart and clean
it thoroughly.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Holoman
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 10:42 PM
Subject: Yak-List: loss of main air
If You are losing air from the compressor to the snot valve, you need to
look for a leak starting at the banjo fitting, flare fittings at both ends of
your steel line and or your check valve leaving your compressor that can
be plugged up. Any one or a combination of the above mentioned has to be
the problem if otherwise your system is holding pressure.
Good luck, Mike
________________________________
From: l129bs@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: loss of main air
snot valve not seating properly.
On Oct 28, 2014, at 3:19 AM, Philip Nicholson <pednicholson@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hello,
I have replaced my main air valve and flap handle valve recently. No
issues immediately thereafter. Air system behaved normally.
A month later, and three flights in a row, I have not been able to
generate over 30 bars. It just stays there. When I land, I bleed off an
additional five with flaps and brakes etc. With the engine off and Main air open,
I use an external tank to fill to 50 bars. I hear no hissing whatsoever.
Also of note, my snot valve after landing has little to no pressure. Goo
just slowly drips/oozes out.
Any thoughts on where to start?
Thanks,
Phil Nicholson
CJ6A - C-FEPN
pednicholson@gmail.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution
==========
rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
Message 3
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I have an M-462RF (very similar to an M-14) which will eventually be installed
in a Murphy Moose.
The time has come to have an engine mounting assembly fabricated using the mounting
ring that came with the engine.
How is the best way to remove the existing ring from the engine so that I can send
it out for fabricating the entire mounting assembly?
Looks to me like I need to remove at least one of the magnetos, the compressor,
fuel pump, generator, and carburetor.
How is the best way to ensure that these parts can be reinstalled with the proper
alignments and timing?
Thanks,
Michael
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432413#432413
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Advice Needed |
Michael,
I have installed a M462RF in my CJ6 and may be able to help. Call me.
Doug Sapp 509-826-4610
On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:51 AM, michaelrorth <mosurf@xplornet.com> wrote:
>
> I have an M-462RF (very similar to an M-14) which will eventually be
> installed in a Murphy Moose.
>
> The time has come to have an engine mounting assembly fabricated using the
> mounting ring that came with the engine.
>
> How is the best way to remove the existing ring from the engine so that I
> can send it out for fabricating the entire mounting assembly?
>
> Looks to me like I need to remove at least one of the magnetos, the
> compressor, fuel pump, generator, and carburetor.
>
> How is the best way to ensure that these parts can be reinstalled with the
> proper alignments and timing?
>
> Thanks,
> Michael
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432413#432413
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Advice Needed |
Hi Michael-
In the process of Housai to M14P conversion and just removed YAK ring for th
e CJ ring and you do need to remove both Mags and the oil pump but it will f
it over the compressor and carb. If you have the Russian mag wrench (long e
xtension 13 mm I think), it is useful for the mag nut next to the ring (very
tight). Flipping the motor so it is nose down makes working on the aft por
tion/accessories and mount much easier and below is a pic of what I used (th
anks Pappy). Fab a plate with the prop flange hole pattern and a jack stand o
n a sturdy pallet on wheels and u can spin motor around and move easily. Re
fer to George Coy's tutorial on mag timing...let me know if you need it.
More ways to skin this cat but it all worked for me; of course the key part o
f all this is your hoist system...Hope this helps.- Hoot
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 28, 2014, at 11:51 AM, "michaelrorth" <mosurf@xplornet.com> wrote:
>
>
> I have an M-462RF (very similar to an M-14) which will eventually be insta
lled in a Murphy Moose.
>
> The time has come to have an engine mounting assembly fabricated using the
mounting ring that came with the engine.
>
> How is the best way to remove the existing ring from the engine so that I c
an send it out for fabricating the entire mounting assembly?
>
> Looks to me like I need to remove at least one of the magnetos, the compre
ssor, fuel pump, generator, and carburetor.
>
> How is the best way to ensure that these parts can be reinstalled with the
proper alignments and timing?
>
> Thanks,
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432413#432413
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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Message 6
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I would be grateful to hear from anyone who has done this conversion, since
we have only put the "B" into Yaks.
Comparing the "B" to the "P", it would seem to be about 15 mm longer behind
the mounting ring (and this is after machining off the original hydraulic
drive), and the magnetos are approximately 20 mm behind the original "P"
position. Does this cause any fitting problems in relation to the engine
mount tubes?
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
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PQoK
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Advice Needed |
Hoot is correct. Just need to pull the mags. Do not recall having to pull my oil
pump to remove my ring. Has been a couple of years since I rebuilt my M14 though.
On second thought, no I did not pull the oil pump.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Oct 28, 2014, at 11:40 AM, Hank Gibson <hkgibby@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Michael-
>
> In the process of Housai to M14P conversion and just removed YAK ring for the
CJ ring and you do need to remove both Mags and the oil pump but it will fit
over the compressor and carb. If you have the Russian mag wrench (long extension
13 mm I think), it is useful for the mag nut next to the ring (very tight).
Flipping the motor so it is nose down makes working on the aft portion/accessories
and mount much easier and below is a pic of what I used (thanks Pappy).
Fab a plate with the prop flange hole pattern and a jack stand on a sturdy pallet
on wheels and u can spin motor around and move easily. Refer to George
Coy's tutorial on mag timing...let me know if you need it.
> <image.jpeg>
>
> More ways to skin this cat but it all worked for me; of course the key part of
all this is your hoist system...Hope this helps.- Hoot
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 28, 2014, at 11:51 AM, "michaelrorth" <mosurf@xplornet.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I have an M-462RF (very similar to an M-14) which will eventually be installed
in a Murphy Moose.
>>
>> The time has come to have an engine mounting assembly fabricated using the mounting
ring that came with the engine.
>>
>> How is the best way to remove the existing ring from the engine so that I can
send it out for fabricating the entire mounting assembly?
>>
>> Looks to me like I need to remove at least one of the magnetos, the compressor,
fuel pump, generator, and carburetor.
>>
>> How is the best way to ensure that these parts can be reinstalled with the proper
alignments and timing?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432413#432413
> ===================================
> ===================================
> ===================================
> ===================================
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
>
> </b></font></pre>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Advice Needed |
The mag hold down nuts are 14mm. For the front nut, many people,
including me, make a wrench from an inexpensive 14mm combination (open
end-box end) wrench. Heat the shank of the wrench and bend it at about
a 120 degree angle. When cooled, cut off the open end of the wrench a
couple of inches in from the open end. Use the box end wrench for easy
access to the front mag nut. BTW, the cylinder base nut wrench (which
is also 14mm) works very nicely on the top and bottom mag hold down nuts.
When removing the mags, here's a pretty simple way for you to remove and
reinstall the mags without having to re-time them. This assumes you do
not rotate the prop flange in any way after the mags are removed.
- Remove the mag cover and rotate the engine until the leading finger on
the rotor in the counter clockwise direction points directly at the
scribe mark on the cover mating surface of the mag. This is the timing
mark for #4 cylinder. On the left mag, the scribe mark is at the 2
o'clock position or just above the high voltage stick. On the right mag
it's just below the high voltage stick or 8 o'clock position.
- Clean the base of the mag around the lower edge where it mates with
the accessory case using a solvent or avgas and let it dry a minute or two.
- Using a Sharpie pen, make 3 vertical lines approximately 1/4" apart
between the base of the mag and the accessory case.
- Remove the mag hold down nuts and remove the mag from the accessory case.
- Put a piece of duct tape across the rotor and down on to the side of
the mag to keep the rotor in position for when you pull the mag.
- When reinstalling the mag, precisely line up the 3 vertical marks on
the accessory case with the marks on the base of the mag.
- Reinstall the hold down nuts.
Hope this helps.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 10/28/2014 4:25 PM, Roger Kemp wrote:
>
> Hoot is correct. Just need to pull the mags. Do not recall having to pull my
oil pump to remove my ring. Has been a couple of years since I rebuilt my M14
though.
> On second thought, no I did not pull the oil pump.
> Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Oct 28, 2014, at 11:40 AM, Hank Gibson <hkgibby@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Michael-
>>
>> In the process of Housai to M14P conversion and just removed YAK ring for the
CJ ring and you do need to remove both Mags and the oil pump but it will fit
over the compressor and carb. If you have the Russian mag wrench (long extension
13 mm I think), it is useful for the mag nut next to the ring (very tight).
Flipping the motor so it is nose down makes working on the aft portion/accessories
and mount much easier and below is a pic of what I used (thanks Pappy).
Fab a plate with the prop flange hole pattern and a jack stand on a sturdy
pallet on wheels and u can spin motor around and move easily. Refer to George
Coy's tutorial on mag timing...let me know if you need it.
>> <image.jpeg>
>>
>> More ways to skin this cat but it all worked for me; of course the key part
of all this is your hoist system...Hope this helps.- Hoot
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 28, 2014, at 11:51 AM, "michaelrorth" <mosurf@xplornet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I have an M-462RF (very similar to an M-14) which will eventually be installed
in a Murphy Moose.
>>>
>>> The time has come to have an engine mounting assembly fabricated using the
mounting ring that came with the engine.
>>>
>>> How is the best way to remove the existing ring from the engine so that I can
send it out for fabricating the entire mounting assembly?
>>>
>>> Looks to me like I need to remove at least one of the magnetos, the compressor,
fuel pump, generator, and carburetor.
>>>
>>> How is the best way to ensure that these parts can be reinstalled with the
proper alignments and timing?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432413#432413
>> ===================================
>> ===================================
>> ===================================
>> ===================================
>>
>> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>>
>>
>> </b></font></pre>
>
>
Message 11
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|
| Subject: | Re: Advice Needed |
Hi Roger,
Thank you for your reply and advice.
Much appreciated,
Michael
Michael Orth
mosurf@xplornet.com
(250) 243-0013
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp" <f16viperdoc@me.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Advice Needed
>
> Hoot is correct. Just need to pull the mags. Do not recall having to
pull my oil pump to remove my ring. Has been a couple of years since I
rebuilt my M14 though.
> On second thought, no I did not pull the oil pump.
> Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Oct 28, 2014, at 11:40 AM, Hank Gibson <hkgibby@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Michael-
>>
>> In the process of Housai to M14P conversion and just removed YAK ring
for the CJ ring and you do need to remove both Mags and the oil pump but
it will fit over the compressor and carb. If you have the Russian mag
wrench (long extension 13 mm I think), it is useful for the mag nut next
to the ring (very tight). Flipping the motor so it is nose down makes
working on the aft portion/accessories and mount much easier and below
is a pic of what I used (thanks Pappy). Fab a plate with the prop flange
hole pattern and a jack stand on a sturdy pallet on wheels and u can
spin motor around and move easily. Refer to George Coy's tutorial on
mag timing...let me know if you need it.
>> <image.jpeg>
>>
>> More ways to skin this cat but it all worked for me; of course the
key part of all this is your hoist system...Hope this helps.- Hoot
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 28, 2014, at 11:51 AM, "michaelrorth" <mosurf@xplornet.com>
wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I have an M-462RF (very similar to an M-14) which will eventually be
installed in a Murphy Moose.
>>>
>>> The time has come to have an engine mounting assembly fabricated
using the mounting ring that came with the engine.
>>>
>>> How is the best way to remove the existing ring from the engine so
that I can send it out for fabricating the entire mounting assembly?
>>>
>>> Looks to me like I need to remove at least one of the magnetos, the
compressor, fuel pump, generator, and carburetor.
>>>
>>> How is the best way to ensure that these parts can be reinstalled
with the proper alignments and timing?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432413#432413
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face=3D"courier
new,courier">
>>
>>
>> </b></font></pre>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
10/28/14
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
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|
| Subject: | Re: Advice Needed |
Welcome Michael. Good luck
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Oct 28, 2014, at 9:10 PM, Michael Orth <mosurf@xplornet.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Roger,
>
> Thank you for your reply and advice.
>
> Much appreciated,
>
> Michael
>
> Michael Orth
> mosurf@xplornet.com
> (250) 243-0013
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Kemp" <f16viperdoc@me.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 2:25 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Advice Needed
>
> >
> > Hoot is correct. Just need to pull the mags. Do not recall having to pul
l my oil pump to remove my ring. Has been a couple of years since I rebuilt m
y M14 though.
> > On second thought, no I did not pull the oil pump.
> > Doc
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >> On Oct 28, 2014, at 11:40 AM, Hank Gibson <hkgibby@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Michael-
> >>
> >> In the process of Housai to M14P conversion and just removed YAK ring f
or the CJ ring and you do need to remove both Mags and the oil pump but it w
ill fit over the compressor and carb. If you have the Russian mag wrench (l
ong extension 13 mm I think), it is useful for the mag nut next to the ring (
very tight). Flipping the motor so it is nose down makes working on the aft
portion/accessories and mount much easier and below is a pic of what I used
(thanks Pappy). Fab a plate with the prop flange hole pattern and a jack st
and on a sturdy pallet on wheels and u can spin motor around and move easily
. Refer to George Coy's tutorial on mag timing...let me know if you need it
.
> >> <image.jpeg>
> >>
> >> More ways to skin this cat but it all worked for me; of course the key p
art of all this is your hoist system...Hope this helps.- Hoot
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Oct 28, 2014, at 11:51 AM, "michaelrorth" <mosurf@xplornet.com> wro
te:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I have an M-462RF (very similar to an M-14) which will eventually be i
nstalled in a Murphy Moose.
> >>>
> >>> The time has come to have an engine mounting assembly fabricated using
the mounting ring that came with the engine.
> >>>
> >>> How is the best way to remove the existing ring from the engine so tha
t I can send it out for fabricating the entire mounting assembly?
> >>>
> >>> Looks to me like I need to remove at least one of the magnetos, the co
mpressor, fuel pump, generator, and carburetor.
> >>>
> >>> How is the best way to ensure that these parts can be reinstalled with
the proper alignments and timing?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Michael
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Read this topic online here:
> >>>
> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=432413#432413
> >> ==========
> >> ==========
> >> ==========
> >> ==========
> >>
> >> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face=3D"courier new,courier"
>
> >>
> >>
> >> </b></font></pre>
> >
> >
> > ==========
> > Yak-List Email browse
> > Photoshare, and much href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> > bsp; via the href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matron
ics.com
> > ==========
> > bsp; - generous support!
> > bsp; href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">htt
p://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > ==========
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 10/28/14
> >
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
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