Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:02 PM - Re: Re: loss of main air (Roger Kemp)
2. 01:12 PM - Flight manual needed (Alan Cockrell)
3. 01:59 PM - Re: Re: loss of main air (Roger Kemp)
4. 01:59 PM - Re: Flight manual needed (Richard Hess)
5. 02:46 PM - Re: Removing Gills (Roger Kemp)
6. 02:50 PM - Re: Re: Very slow air leak...how to find it (Roger Kemp)
7. 02:52 PM - Re: Flight manual needed (Roger Kemp)
8. 03:07 PM - Re: Removing Gills (ronpenrose)
9. 06:37 PM - Re: Re: Removing Gills (Roger Kemp)
10. 07:33 PM - Re: Flight manual needed (Roger Kemp)
11. 07:54 PM - Re: Prop needed (barryhancock)
12. 07:56 PM - Spins, particularly in a Yak-52 (barryhancock)
13. 08:15 PM - Re: Spins, particularly in a Yak-52 (Robin Hou)
14. 09:35 PM - Re: Spins, particularly in a Yak-52 (barryhancock)
15. 11:43 PM - Re: Spins, particularly in a Yak-52 (Nigel Willson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: loss of main air |
Another option. Counter clockwise one turn to adjust your PPP off valve then go
fly the plane. Between start and taxi you will bleed the tank down 1-1.5 ATM.
AND, you having fun too.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 10, 2014, at 8:56 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
wrote:
>
>
> If you don't care to use the brakes there is another way, but using the brakes
is a much better idea! Safer too!
>
> My Yak-50 does not have air brakes, they have been converted to hydraulic toe
brakes, so I had to come up with a simple way to do what you are trying to do.
>
> If you look at the pressure relief/pop-off valve that Dennis has described, you
will note that it is connected to an assembly of one way check valves with
a filter in the middle. This assembly looks like the letter "H" with a check
valve in each half leg of the letter "H". This is the central "meeting point"
of all the air line in the YAK-50. One line comes in from the engine air compressor
and goes through a check valve, another line comes in from the external
fill port, and goes through a check valve. Then you have lines going OUT
of the "H" each one ALSO through a check valve, and one of these goes to your
main air bottle and one of these goes to your emergency air bottle.
>
> The two going OUT are most AWAY from the pressure relief/pop-off valve, I.E.
they are the two that are closest to the middle of the firewall and the two are
aligned vertically.
>
> One line goes out going UP and the other line goes out coming DOWN. The question
is which goes to which, I ALWAYS forget.....so I have them MARKED in my
airplane! What you do is to carefully remove the safety wire to the lines that
screw onto the actual check valves. These are aluminum lines that you remove
with a wrench. You want to be very very careful here. If they are tight,
do not just put a wrench on these fittings and apply Gorilla force! You will
end up twisting the whole assembly, bending lines and fixtures in the process.
If you look closely you can see where you can put another wrench on the check
valve itself so that as you turn the one open end wrench, you can apply opposite
force on the other wrench to keep from bending the whole mess up!
>
> Now realize that this whole thing is somewhat dangerous. You are messing with
lines that have OVER 800 PSI on them, if you have those bottles filled to "6"
on the gage, which represents 60 atmospheres. Wear goggles. Be careful. You
only want to crack open these lines just a tiny bit until you hear air hissing.
You can then slowly bleed down both the MAIN and the EMERGENCY bottles (one
fitting at a time) since if you have one filled to 60, you should have them
BOTH filled to 60, since the YAK-50 pressurizes both bottles from the engine
compressor, unlike the 52 which only fills the main bottle from the engine compressor.
>
> Please exercise extreme caution when doing this... Or..... Better yet, let
an A&P do it.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2014 9:42 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: loss of main air
>
> Turn the main air valve on and move the flaps up and down a few times.
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
> www.yak-52.com
> Skype - Yakguy1
> On 11/9/2014 8:34 AM, yakxx21 wrote:
>
>
>
> Oh..that's straight forward..thanks....
>
> Is there any way to let the air out without putting the brake on and a
thousand times ??
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433212#433212
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Flight manual needed |
Gents,
Does any one have the information requested in the question below? Todd Gunther
is an NTSB investigator who is working on the final report of George Myers' crash
of September 2012. If you have this I can forward it to Todd, or you may
do so.
Thanks,
Alan
Do you have a complete copy of the YAK 52 Flight Handbook?
The copy we have is not complete.
In the chapter titled: "YAK-52. Assistance Materials For Lectures On
Aerobatics," on Page 69, under "SLOW (Aileron) ROLL" the information is
partially missing including the section on "Common Mistakes."
It appears we have the rest (i.e. Loops, Split-S, Immelman, etc.).
Thank you,
Todd
Todd Gunther
Air Safety Investigator
National Transportation Safety Board
45065 Riverside Parkway
Ashburn, VA 20147
(O): 571-223-3924
(F): 202-558-4260
Email:todd.gunther@ntsb.gov
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: loss of main air |
Apple Autocorrect? WTF is PPP off valve?!! Supposed to say pop off valve!
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 11, 2014, at 3:02 PM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc@me.com> wrote:
>
>
> Another option. Counter clockwise one turn to adjust your PPP off valve then
go fly the plane. Between start and taxi you will bleed the tank down 1-1.5 ATM.
AND, you having fun too.
> Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Nov 10, 2014, at 8:56 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
wrote:
>>
>>
>> If you don't care to use the brakes there is another way, but using the brakes
is a much better idea! Safer too!
>>
>> My Yak-50 does not have air brakes, they have been converted to hydraulic toe
brakes, so I had to come up with a simple way to do what you are trying to do.
>>
>> If you look at the pressure relief/pop-off valve that Dennis has described,
you will note that it is connected to an assembly of one way check valves with
a filter in the middle. This assembly looks like the letter "H" with a check
valve in each half leg of the letter "H". This is the central "meeting point"
of all the air line in the YAK-50. One line comes in from the engine air
compressor and goes through a check valve, another line comes in from the external
fill port, and goes through a check valve. Then you have lines going OUT
of the "H" each one ALSO through a check valve, and one of these goes to your
main air bottle and one of these goes to your emergency air bottle.
>>
>> The two going OUT are most AWAY from the pressure relief/pop-off valve, I.E.
they are the two that are closest to the middle of the firewall and the two are
aligned vertically.
>>
>> One line goes out going UP and the other line goes out coming DOWN. The question
is which goes to which, I ALWAYS forget.....so I have them MARKED in my
airplane! What you do is to carefully remove the safety wire to the lines that
screw onto the actual check valves. These are aluminum lines that you remove
with a wrench. You want to be very very careful here. If they are tight,
do not just put a wrench on these fittings and apply Gorilla force! You will
end up twisting the whole assembly, bending lines and fixtures in the process.
If you look closely you can see where you can put another wrench on the check
valve itself so that as you turn the one open end wrench, you can apply opposite
force on the other wrench to keep from bending the whole mess up!
>>
>> Now realize that this whole thing is somewhat dangerous. You are messing with
lines that have OVER 800 PSI on them, if you have those bottles filled to "6"
on the gage, which represents 60 atmospheres. Wear goggles. Be careful.
You only want to crack open these lines just a tiny bit until you hear air hissing.
You can then slowly bleed down both the MAIN and the EMERGENCY bottles
(one fitting at a time) since if you have one filled to 60, you should have them
BOTH filled to 60, since the YAK-50 pressurizes both bottles from the engine
compressor, unlike the 52 which only fills the main bottle from the engine compressor.
>>
>> Please exercise extreme caution when doing this... Or..... Better yet, let
an A&P do it.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2014 9:42 AM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: loss of main air
>>
>> Turn the main air valve on and move the flaps up and down a few times.
>>
>> A. Dennis Savarese
>> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
>> www.yak-52.com
>> Skype - Yakguy1
>> On 11/9/2014 8:34 AM, yakxx21 wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Oh..that's straight forward..thanks....
>>
>> Is there any way to let the air out without putting the brake on and a
thousand times ??
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433212#433212
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Flight manual needed |
Sorry I don't have one
Richard Hess
C 404-964-4885
> On Nov 11, 2014, at 14:11, Alan Cockrell <yakpilot@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> Gents,
> Does any one have the information requested in the question below? Todd Gunther
is an NTSB investigator who is working on the final report of George Myers'
crash of September 2012. If you have this I can forward it to Todd, or you may
do so.
> Thanks,
> Alan
>
>
> Do you have a complete copy of the YAK 52 Flight Handbook?
>
> The copy we have is not complete.
>
> In the chapter titled: "YAK-52. Assistance Materials For Lectures On
> Aerobatics," on Page 69, under "SLOW (Aileron) ROLL" the information is
> partially missing including the section on "Common Mistakes."
>
> It appears we have the rest (i.e. Loops, Split-S, Immelman, etc.).
>
> Thank you,
>
> Todd
>
> Todd Gunther
> Air Safety Investigator
> National Transportation Safety Board
> 45065 Riverside Parkway
> Ashburn, VA 20147
> (O): 571-223-3924
> (F): 202-558-4260
> Email:todd.gunther@ntsb.gov
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Removing Gills |
Taking those bolts loose will not let you remove you oil tube ( the snout you refer
to). Look at shaft of you oil tube. You will see a nut at the base of the
polished tip that pushes oil into and out of the piston in the prop hub. Take
the appropriate Mexican Speed wrench (adjustable) to loosen it. Careful, there
is washer at the base. Put a clean rag in you prop shaft to keep FOD out.
You will have to remove all of those slotted safety wire screws around the ring
that supported the defection plate at the base of the hub that you have already
removed.
At the 0530 position you will see two ~8 mm bolts that on the back side attaches
to a lever that opens and closes you gills. That all has to come off.
Then if you look around the base of louvers there are ? 11 mm bolts the bolt the
ring to the nose case. Slowly loosen them all together so you are going loosen
one a little, move to the next one, then the next one until you have all the
walked around the ring. That is because over the top of the bolts is a slot
in the perpendicular ring that prevents the bolts from backing completely out
if they loosened in flight.
You also have to take those cooling trumpets off. You will have to take the outer
ring braces loose that attach the ring to the nine cylinders. Do not lose those
spacers at the base of those L brackets that mounts them to the stud on the
cylinders. Impossible to find replacements.
Now that all of that is disconnected you can remove the louvers from the prop hub.
Look at your prop hub. You will see two flat sides on an otherwise round flange.
You will basically lift up the base ring behind the flange over one of
those flat sides in the flange. You then rotate the ring around the flange like
you would remove a lid from a gallon of paint if you intended to use the lide
again that is. Yes I am talking about warping the base ring to slide it off
the prop flange.
Sure you still want to do this?
Have fun.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 10, 2014, at 7:46 AM, ronpenrose <rpenrose@kc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi all. I am a relatively new Yak owner since July. I am in the process of dismantling
a few things for painting and having a problem figuring out how to remove
the gills framework. I have removed the prop and hub. I am thinking the
snout and the cast piece in front of gills needs to come off but cannot figure
out how to remove. I did remove the four bolts at the base of the snout but it
will not budge and cautious of using too much persuasion.
>
> I have attached pic.
>
> Any hints to going the last mile on this greatly appreciated.
>
> --------
> Ron Penrose
> YAK-52 N352BW
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433318#433318
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_20141110_074357_282.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Very slow air leak...how to find it |
On the YAK 50, the Chinese check valves work also. Did not know about Goerge rebuilding
the check valves until after I had replaced mine with brand new ones
Doug Sapp.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 10, 2014, at 9:45 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
wrote:
>
>
> After a day or two of not flying... open the snot valve. If you hear a loud
hiss of air, you more than likely have air leaking through the check valves and
back into the compressor line.
>
> Next, use external air to fill both tanks. Then (one at a time) remove the
lines coming into the check valve assembly (described in a previous email) that
are coming from the engine compressor to the check valve assembly. If you
want, you can take a balloon and put it over the fitting of the check valve you
just removed the line from coming from the engine, to snot valve, to check valve
assembly. Tie it on there tight and leave it for a few hours and see if
it blows up.
>
> If nothing happens, you can go back to the external fill port and put soapy water
there... look for air coming out the external fill port. This checks THAT
check valve. You could also take off the fitting going to the external fill
port at the check valve assembly and use the balloon trick again.
>
> Realize if you have air coming out of EITHER of these, you also will a check
valve bad going to one of the two AIR tanks.
>
> If you decide you have a check valve leaking, send all four to George Coy and
his son, and they will rebuild them for you.
>
>
> That's a little bit of a start to get you going anyway.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yakxx21
> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 10:06 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Very slow air leak...how to find it
>
>
> why would temperature effect it ?....looking at the diagram it seems it can only
go back to the charging point (which its not) or leak around the tank itself
(cant see any soapy leaks) or lose something through the check valve going
to engine driven compressor and Im not sure how to check that
>
> also im not sure if the SNOT valve would affect it if left open----or if not
sealing correctly....
>
> finally I suppose I could change the pressure release rubber again....
>
> frustrating
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433323#433323
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Flight manual needed |
Alan,
Let me look tonight.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 11, 2014, at 3:11 PM, Alan Cockrell <yakpilot@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> Gents,
> Does any one have the information requested in the question below? Todd Gunther
is an NTSB investigator who is working on the final report of George Myers'
crash of September 2012. If you have this I can forward it to Todd, or you may
do so.
> Thanks,
> Alan
>
>
> Do you have a complete copy of the YAK 52 Flight Handbook?
>
> The copy we have is not complete.
>
> In the chapter titled: "YAK-52. Assistance Materials For Lectures On
> Aerobatics," on Page 69, under "SLOW (Aileron) ROLL" the information is
> partially missing including the section on "Common Mistakes."
>
> It appears we have the rest (i.e. Loops, Split-S, Immelman, etc.).
>
> Thank you,
>
> Todd
>
> Todd Gunther
> Air Safety Investigator
> National Transportation Safety Board
> 45065 Riverside Parkway
> Ashburn, VA 20147
> (O): 571-223-3924
> (F): 202-558-4260
> Email:todd.gunther@ntsb.gov
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Removing Gills |
Doc,
Thanks. Way more effort than I had hoped. While very tedious, I may elect to paint
in place, not ideal but a lot of masking tape, small brush work, etc. may
be my choice. Thanks for taking the time for your detailed response.
Ron
--------
Ron Penrose
YAK-52 N352BW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433404#433404
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Removing Gills |
Welcome. Getting ready to re-hang my engine on the 50 and the the louver fun begins
in reverse of what I wrote.
If you are going to paint them you really do need to pull them off the engine.
Them you can degrease them and strip them. We pulled the axels out of mine and
painted the individual vanes.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 11, 2014, at 5:07 PM, ronpenrose <rpenrose@kc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> Doc,
>
> Thanks. Way more effort than I had hoped. While very tedious, I may elect to
paint in place, not ideal but a lot of masking tape, small brush work, etc. may
be my choice. Thanks for taking the time for your detailed response.
> Ron
>
> --------
> Ron Penrose
> YAK-52 N352BW
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433404#433404
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Flight manual needed |
Alan,
I have the original RU translation. So they call it fast rolling and hesitation
rolls.
Which do you need.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 11, 2014, at 3:11 PM, Alan Cockrell <yakpilot@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> Gents,
> Does any one have the information requested in the question below? Todd Gunther
is an NTSB investigator who is working on the final report of George Myers'
crash of September 2012. If you have this I can forward it to Todd, or you may
do so.
> Thanks,
> Alan
>
>
> Do you have a complete copy of the YAK 52 Flight Handbook?
>
> The copy we have is not complete.
>
> In the chapter titled: "YAK-52. Assistance Materials For Lectures On
> Aerobatics," on Page 69, under "SLOW (Aileron) ROLL" the information is
> partially missing including the section on "Common Mistakes."
>
> It appears we have the rest (i.e. Loops, Split-S, Immelman, etc.).
>
> Thank you,
>
> Todd
>
> Todd Gunther
> Air Safety Investigator
> National Transportation Safety Board
> 45065 Riverside Parkway
> Ashburn, VA 20147
> (O): 571-223-3924
> (F): 202-558-4260
> Email:todd.gunther@ntsb.gov
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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|
Ernie,
I have two sets that were overhauled a Santa Monica Propeller. I don't see your
email but you can email me directly at
bhancock (at) worldwidewarbirds.com
Cheers,
Barry
--------
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
(877) 869-6458
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433416#433416
Message 12
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| Subject: | Spins, particularly in a Yak-52 |
Gang,
Having recently acquired a Pitts S2C with an eye on competition, I've been having
a discussion on the IAC exploder regarding spin recovery techniques. It has
been quite interesting and informative. During the discussion our friend Richard
Goode chimed in about the Yak-52, which had been brought up briefly. With
Richard's permission, I am reposting his direct email to me regarding the peculiarities
of the Yak-52. Here is the thread...and anyone considering aerobatics
in a Yak-52 should read this closely...
Hi Barry,
Yes, on one hand I don't want to give the 52 a bad name, which it does not deserve.
On the other, it really can bite the unwary hence my repeating this issue
of training with someone competent, and that means with in-depth 52 experience.
I sold a 52 to a pair of Dutch airline pilots, and although we demonstrated
all the basic manoeuvres, we very strongly insisted that they should get proper
instruction from Gena Elfimov, a brilliant 52 instructor who then lived in
the UK.
Unfortunately, and totally by chance, some other Dutch customers of mine, to whom
I had sold a Sukhoi 29, invited Martin Stahlik, who had just come seventh in
the World Championship to come and instruct them on the Sukhoi, in which he
was very experienced since we had sold him a 26. Sadly, the owners of the 52 also
asked him to fly with them and instruct on the 52; they went into a deliberate
flat spin at 6000 foot and went all the way down into the ground killing
Martin and the Dutch pilot.
When I heard about this, I was very surprised that Martin had agreed to instruct
on the 52, since he was a Czech and would have trained on Zlins. In the end,
the accident investigators never found his logbooks, but it was fairly clear
he'd never been in a 52 until the fatal flight and that was one of the best pilots
in the world!
Best wishes
Richard
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
From: Barry Hancock [mailto:bhancock@worldwidewarbirds.com]
Sent: 10 November 2014 16:25
Cc: jdf@fellp.com; Aerobatics Exploder
Subject: Re: [Acro] I get it now
Hey Richard. Glad you jumped in here. In the Red Star community I have long been
an advocate of proper spin training, particularly in the -52. My training
with Sergei Boriak and another gent from Kazakstan (whos name I dont recallhe
spoke no english, but was fluent in airplane) only reinforced the need for full
spin training in the Yak-52 prior to aerosregardless of what spin training
you had in the past. As your paper mentions, the stick and rudder forces are
substantial and it would be easy to confuse the force required for jammed controls
with a pilot not accustomed to these factors.
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
Making your aviation dreams a reality since 2000
see our new web site at: worldwidewarbirds.com
cell 801.899.5313
--------
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
(877) 869-6458
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433417#433417
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Spins, particularly in a Yak-52 |
How about CJ's? Anything special we CJ drivers should be aware of?=0A=0AI h
ave done spins in my CJ but only for 1 to 2 turns. It seems to recover itse
lf well once controls are released. Does the spin get more difficult to rec
over after more turns?=0A=0A=0AOn Tuesday, November 11, 2014 8:05 PM, barry
hancock <bhancock@worldwidewarbirds.com> wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0A--> Yak-List me
ssage posted by: "barryhancock" <bhancock@worldwidewarbirds.com>=0A=0AGang,
=0A=0AHaving recently acquired a Pitts S2C with an eye on competition, I've
been having a discussion on the IAC exploder regarding spin recovery techn
iques. It has been quite interesting and informative. During the discussi
on our friend Richard Goode chimed in about the Yak-52, which had been brou
ght up briefly. With Richard's permission, I am reposting his direct email
to me regarding the peculiarities of the Yak-52. Here is the thread...and
anyone considering aerobatics in a Yak-52 should read this closely...=0A
=0AHi Barry,=0A=0AYes, on one hand I don't want to give the 52 a bad name,
which it does not deserve. On the other, it really can bite the unwary =C3
=A2=82=AC=9C hence my repeating this issue of training with someon
e competent, and that means with in-depth 52 experience. I sold a 52 to a p
air of Dutch airline pilots, and although we demonstrated all the basic man
oeuvres, we very strongly insisted that they should get proper instruction
from Gena Elfimov, a brilliant 52 instructor who then lived in the UK.=0A
=0AUnfortunately, and totally by chance, some other Dutch customers of mine
, to whom I had sold a Sukhoi 29, invited Martin Stahlik, who had just come
seventh in the World Championship to come and instruct them on the Sukhoi,
in which he was very experienced since we had sold him a 26. Sadly, the ow
ners of the 52 also asked him to fly with them and instruct on the 52; they
went into a deliberate flat spin at 6000 foot and went all the way down in
to the ground killing Martin and the Dutch pilot.=0A=0AWhen I heard about t
his, I was very surprised that Martin had agreed to instruct on the 52, sin
ce he was a Czech and would have trained on Zlins. In the end, the accident
investigators never found his logbooks, but it was fairly clear he'd never
been in a 52 until the fatal flight =C3=A2=82=AC=9C and that was
one of the best pilots in the world!=0A=0ABest wishes=0A=0ARichard=0A=0ARic
hard Goode Aerobatics=0ARhodds Farm=0ALyonshall=0AHereford=0AHR5 3LW=0A=0AT
el: +44 (0) 1544 340120=0AFax: +44 (0) 1544 340129=0Awww.russianaeros.com
=0A=0AFrom: Barry Hancock [mailto:bhancock@worldwidewarbirds.com] =0ASent:
10 November 2014 16:25=0ATo: Richard Goode=0ACc: jdf@fellp.com; Aerobatics
Exploder=0ASubject: Re: [Acro] I get it now=0A=0AHey Richard. Glad you jum
ped in here. In the Red Star community I have long been an advocate of pro
per spin training, particularly in the -52. My training with Sergei Boriak
and another gent from Kazakstan (who=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s name I don
=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2t recall=C3=A2=82=AC=C2he spoke no english, b
ut was fluent in airplane) only reinforced the need for full spin training
in the Yak-52 prior to aeros=C3=A2=82=AC=C2regardless of what spin tr
aining you had in the past. As your paper mentions, the stick and rudder f
orces are substantial and it would be easy to confuse the force required fo
r jammed controls with a pilot not accustomed to these factors.=0A=0ABarry
Hancock=0AWorldwide Warbirds, Inc.=0A=C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93Making your aviat
ion dreams a reality since 2000=C3=A2=82=AC=0Asee our new web site at: w
orldwidewarbirds.com=0Acell 801.899.5313=0A=0A--------=0ABarry Hancock=0AWo
rldwide Warbirds, Inc.=0A(877) 869-6458=0Awww.worldwidewarbirds.com=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/view
=========
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Spins, particularly in a Yak-52 |
Hi Robin,
Good on you for actually spinning your CJ. It's surprising to me how many people
have not done it. A CJ that has proper CG is a stable and "normal" spinning
airplane in my experience. I've spun at least a dozen different CJs and if
anything they have a tendency to want to come out into a spiral after a couple
of rotations. Need to be careful about that as G's can start mounting quickly
= not good. Both PARE and Beggs-Muller techniques work well in the CJ (if you
don't know what those are, time to read up...and maybe get some instruction
while your at it ;) ).
One of the things that contributes to the Yak-52 spin characteristics are the way
that the aileron's are attached. They continue to get air flow over them,
which is what makes the stick forces so high in an accelerated flat spin. The
CJ doesn't have that issue.
To be honest the CJ isn't a great spinning airplane for the reasons mentioned above...which
is good if you aren't interested in multiple turn spins. And for
that reason I've never done upright flat spins in it. All of my accelerated
and flat spins have been in a Yak-50/52. Talking about it makes me want to go
try it in a CJ, tho'. ;) That being said, I know there area some on this list
that have and hopefully they will chime in.
I don't remember the numbers in a Yak-52, but they are probably not too different
than the Pitts. I did a bunch of spins in the Pitts last week and an upright
flat spin yields about 16 turns and 5000' of altitude loss in one minute.
Again, point being is everyone should get spin instruction from a well qualified
instructor in their type (reference Richard's story). Even if you never spin
your plane again, it will save your life if you somehow end up in that situation...which
has happened in our community to a number of very "experienced" (i.e.
high time in type) pilots who spun in only because they never sought proper
training.
Fly safely!
Barry
--------
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433420#433420
Message 15
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| Subject: | Spins, particularly in a Yak-52 |
Yes, spin recovery training is a must in a Yak52 before you do aeros.
Done mine almost as soon as I got the aircraft, and now have done oodles of spins
over the past 16 years of flying the Yak52.
In particular flat spin recovery, experimenting with various recovery techniques,
noting the behaviour of the aircraft and associated height loss.
Even more important is learning the situations that get you into one in the first
place.
Happy to provide the training if I'm closer to anyone on the list (UK)
(We start at 10,000 feet, and chutes are a must!)
Regards,
Nigel Willson
Flying Instructor/Examiner and Display Pilot
_________________________________________________
email: nigel@yakdisplay.com
mobile: (+44) 7809 116676
web:http://yakdisplay.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of barryhancock
Sent: 12 November 2014 03:56
Subject: Yak-List: Spins, particularly in a Yak-52
--> <bhancock@worldwidewarbirds.com>
Gang,
Having recently acquired a Pitts S2C with an eye on competition, I've been having
a discussion on the IAC exploder regarding spin recovery techniques. It has
been quite interesting and informative. During the discussion our friend Richard
Goode chimed in about the Yak-52, which had been brought up briefly. With
Richard's permission, I am reposting his direct email to me regarding the peculiarities
of the Yak-52. Here is the thread...and anyone considering aerobatics
in a Yak-52 should read this closely...
Hi Barry,
Yes, on one hand I don't want to give the 52 a bad name, which it does not deserve.
On the other, it really can bite the unwary hence my repeating this issue
of training with someone competent, and that means with in-depth 52 experience.
I sold a 52 to a pair of Dutch airline pilots, and although we demonstrated
all the basic manoeuvres, we very strongly insisted that they should get proper
instruction from Gena Elfimov, a brilliant 52 instructor who then lived in
the UK.
Unfortunately, and totally by chance, some other Dutch customers of mine, to whom
I had sold a Sukhoi 29, invited Martin Stahlik, who had just come seventh in
the World Championship to come and instruct them on the Sukhoi, in which he
was very experienced since we had sold him a 26. Sadly, the owners of the 52 also
asked him to fly with them and instruct on the 52; they went into a deliberate
flat spin at 6000 foot and went all the way down into the ground killing
Martin and the Dutch pilot.
When I heard about this, I was very surprised that Martin had agreed to instruct
on the 52, since he was a Czech and would have trained on Zlins. In the end,
the accident investigators never found his logbooks, but it was fairly clear
he'd never been in a 52 until the fatal flight and that was one of the best pilots
in the world!
Best wishes
Richard
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
From: Barry Hancock [mailto:bhancock@worldwidewarbirds.com]
Sent: 10 November 2014 16:25
Cc: jdf@fellp.com; Aerobatics Exploder
Subject: Re: [Acro] I get it now
Hey Richard. Glad you jumped in here. In the Red Star community I have long been
an advocate of proper spin training, particularly in the -52. My training
with Sergei Boriak and another gent from Kazakstan (whos name I dont recallhe
spoke no english, but was fluent in airplane) only reinforced the need for full
spin training in the Yak-52 prior to aerosregardless of what spin training
you had in the past. As your paper mentions, the stick and rudder forces are
substantial and it would be easy to confuse the force required for jammed controls
with a pilot not accustomed to these factors.
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
Making your aviation dreams a reality since 2000 see our new web site at: worldwidewarbirds.com
cell 801.899.5313
--------
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
(877) 869-6458
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=433417#433417
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