Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:17 AM - Re: Main Air Tank (Bill Geipel)
2. 03:21 AM - Re: Main Air Tank (Bill Geipel)
3. 04:44 AM - Re: Main Air Tank (Ernest Martinez)
4. 05:23 AM - Re: Main Air Tank (Ernest Martinez)
5. 05:28 AM - Re: Main Air Tank (Kelley Monroe)
6. 06:16 AM - Re: Main Air Tank (Roger Kemp)
7. 06:24 AM - Re: Main Air Tank (Ernest Martinez)
8. 11:28 AM - Re: Main Air Tank (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
9. 11:48 AM - Re: Main Air Tank (Rico Jaeger)
10. 12:45 PM - Re: -52 Interior Sidewall Upholstery (YAKY52)
11. 01:06 PM - Main air Tank Update (Ernest Martinez)
12. 01:29 PM - Re: Emergency Air (Ernest Martinez)
13. 07:00 PM - Re: Main Air Tank (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
14. 07:17 PM - Re: Re: Emergency Air (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Main Air Tank |
Air dryer filter as on airlines for paint gun? Cheap and easy before bottle.
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 13, 2015, at 13:58, Sam Sax <cd001633@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> Ernie,
>
> Would a Drain port be needed here as in the original tank for draining moi
sture/water?
>
> Sam
>
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 6:15 PM
> To: yak-list
> Subject: Yak-List: Main Air Tank
>
> Here are pics of the tank I fashioned for my plane.
>
> Specs:
>
> Drager 4500 PSI 60 min Carbon Fiber Wrapped Aluminum Tank.
> Weight 10 lbs
> Length 21"
> Diameter 7"
> Hydro Tested to 7500 PSI.
>
> Fittings:
> Stainless Steel SCBA to NPT Adapter
> NPT to AN #4 Male Adapter.
>
> This should fit in the same bracket where the stock tanks lives. All thats
left is to create an aluminum tube pigtail with an AN B-Nut on one end and t
he Chinese Nut on the other.
>
> <image002.jpg><image004.jpg>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Main Air Tank |
Don't just have one machined. Have a couple just in case. (In case I need one!)
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 13, 2015, at 07:15, Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Here are pics of the tank I fashioned for my plane.
>
> Specs:
>
> Drager 4500 PSI 60 min Carbon Fiber Wrapped Aluminum Tank.
> Weight 10 lbs
> Length 21"
> Diameter 7"
> Hydro Tested to 7500 PSI.
>
> Fittings:
> Stainless Steel SCBA to NPT Adapter
> NPT to AN #4 Male Adapter.
>
> This should fit in the same bracket where the stock tanks lives. All thats left
is to create an aluminum tube pigtail with an AN B-Nut on one end and the Chinese
Nut on the other.
>
> <IMG_0095_2.jpg><IMG_0096_2.jpg>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Main Air Tank |
Sam,
Good question. Unfortunately High Pressure tanks have to be seamless so a
drain port is not a possibility. This is why it's important to keep your
air dryer serviced. But since it's aluminum rust isn't an issue. Would have
to make it part of the annual service routine to remove and dump.
Ernie
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 12:58 AM, Sam Sax <cd001633@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Ernie,
>
>
> Would a Drain port be needed here as in the original tank for draining
> moisture/water?
>
>
> Sam
>
>
> *From:* owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Ernest Martinez
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 12, 2015 6:15 PM
> *To:* yak-list
> *Subject:* Yak-List: Main Air Tank
>
>
> Here are pics of the tank I fashioned for my plane.
>
>
> Specs:
>
>
> Drager 4500 PSI 60 min Carbon Fiber Wrapped Aluminum Tank.
>
> Weight 10 lbs
>
> Length 21"
>
> Diameter 7"
>
> Hydro Tested to 7500 PSI.
>
>
> Fittings:
>
> Stainless Steel SCBA to NPT Adapter
>
> NPT to AN #4 Male Adapter.
>
>
> This should fit in the same bracket where the stock tanks lives. All thats
> left is to create an aluminum tube pigtail with an AN B-Nut on one end and
> the Chinese Nut on the other.
>
>
> [image: Inline image 1][image: Inline image 2]
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Main Air Tank |
Bill,
I didn't machine it, you can buy the adapter on Ebay for $35.
Ernie
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 6:20 AM, Bill Geipel <l129bs@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Don't just have one machined. Have a couple just in case. (In case I need
> one!)
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Mar 13, 2015, at 07:15, Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Here are pics of the tank I fashioned for my plane.
> >
> > Specs:
> >
> > Drager 4500 PSI 60 min Carbon Fiber Wrapped Aluminum Tank.
> > Weight 10 lbs
> > Length 21"
> > Diameter 7"
> > Hydro Tested to 7500 PSI.
> >
> > Fittings:
> > Stainless Steel SCBA to NPT Adapter
> > NPT to AN #4 Male Adapter.
> >
> > This should fit in the same bracket where the stock tanks lives. All
> thats left is to create an aluminum tube pigtail with an AN B-Nut on one
> end and the Chinese Nut on the other.
> >
> > <IMG_0095_2.jpg><IMG_0096_2.jpg>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 5
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|
Has anyone had work done at Eagle Works Aviation/Dan Payne in Hixon
Tennessee?
Thanks Kelley Monroe
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Main Air Tank
Don't just have one machined. Have a couple just in case. (In case I need
one!)
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 13, 2015, at 07:15, Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Here are pics of the tank I fashioned for my plane.
>
> Specs:
>
> Drager 4500 PSI 60 min Carbon Fiber Wrapped Aluminum Tank.
> Weight 10 lbs
> Length 21"
> Diameter 7"
> Hydro Tested to 7500 PSI.
>
> Fittings:
> Stainless Steel SCBA to NPT Adapter
> NPT to AN #4 Male Adapter.
>
> This should fit in the same bracket where the stock tanks lives. All thats
left is to create an aluminum tube pigtail with an AN B-Nut on one end and
the Chinese Nut on the other.
>
> <IMG_0095_2.jpg><IMG_0096_2.jpg>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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|
| Subject: | Re: Main Air Tank |
What is the lone pressure from the compressor to the tank?
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 13, 2015, at 5:16 AM, Bill Geipel <l129bs@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Air dryer filter as on airlines for paint gun? Cheap and easy before bottl
e.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Mar 13, 2015, at 13:58, Sam Sax <cd001633@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>> Ernie,
>>
>> Would a Drain port be needed here as in the original tank for draining mo
isture/water?
>>
>> Sam
>>
>>
>>
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
>> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 6:15 PM
>> To: yak-list
>> Subject: Yak-List: Main Air Tank
>>
>> Here are pics of the tank I fashioned for my plane.
>>
>> Specs:
>>
>> Drager 4500 PSI 60 min Carbon Fiber Wrapped Aluminum Tank.
>> Weight 10 lbs
>> Length 21"
>> Diameter 7"
>> Hydro Tested to 7500 PSI.
>>
>> Fittings:
>> Stainless Steel SCBA to NPT Adapter
>> NPT to AN #4 Male Adapter.
>>
>> This should fit in the same bracket where the stock tanks lives. All that
s left is to create an aluminum tube pigtail with an AN B-Nut on one end and
the Chinese Nut on the other.
>>
>> <image002.jpg><image004.jpg>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Main Air Tank |
Not quite sure I understand your question. Are you referring to the main
air tank or the emergency tank scenario I illustrated?
Nothing changes WRT to the main air tank mod. Its just a simple
replacement. The air pressure in the tank would be whatever you have your
pressure relief valve set to, generally 50 bar or about 750 PSI.
With the emergency tank, there is no input to the emergency bottle. It is
standalone with just output to the emergency circuit. The pressure in the
bottle is 4500 PSI, regulated down to 800 PSI.
Ernie
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc@me.com> wrote:
> What is the lone pressure from the compressor to the tank?
> Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Mar 13, 2015, at 5:16 AM, Bill Geipel <l129bs@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Air dryer filter as on airlines for paint gun? Cheap and easy before
> bottle.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Mar 13, 2015, at 13:58, Sam Sax <cd001633@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> Ernie,
>
>
> Would a Drain port be needed here as in the original tank for draining
> moisture/water?
>
>
> Sam
>
>
> *From:* owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>] *On Behalf Of *Ernest Martinez
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 12, 2015 6:15 PM
> *To:* yak-list
> *Subject:* Yak-List: Main Air Tank
>
>
> Here are pics of the tank I fashioned for my plane.
>
>
> Specs:
>
>
> Drager 4500 PSI 60 min Carbon Fiber Wrapped Aluminum Tank.
>
> Weight 10 lbs
>
> Length 21"
>
> Diameter 7"
>
> Hydro Tested to 7500 PSI.
>
>
> Fittings:
>
> Stainless Steel SCBA to NPT Adapter
>
> NPT to AN #4 Male Adapter.
>
>
> This should fit in the same bracket where the stock tanks lives. All thats
> left is to create an aluminum tube pigtail with an AN B-Nut on one end and
> the Chinese Nut on the other.
>
>
> <image002.jpg><image004.jpg>
>
>
> *
>
> D============================================
> ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List>
> D============================================
> //forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> D============================================
> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> D============================================
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 8
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Another difference between the YAK-50 and YAK-52 original design.
On the 52, the emergency bottle is only filled via the aircrafts external fill
port. Main bottle is filled by either the external fill port, or the engine compressor.
On the YAK-50, both bottles are filled by the engine compressor or the external
fill port.
Not sure why they were designed differently, but that said the 52 emergency bottle
is a one shot kind of thing, once it empty, it's empty. On the 50, you can
close it, wait for it to pump up in-flight and try it again.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Main Air Tank
Not quite sure I understand your question. Are you referring to the main air tank
or the emergency tank scenario I illustrated?
Nothing changes WRT to the main air tank mod. Its just a simple replacement. The
air pressure in the tank would be whatever you have your pressure relief valve
set to, generally 50 bar or about 750 PSI.
With the emergency tank, there is no input to the emergency bottle. It is standalone
with just output to the emergency circuit. The pressure in the bottle is
4500 PSI, regulated down to 800 PSI.
Ernie
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc@me.com> wrote:
What is the lone pressure from the compressor to the tank?
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 13, 2015, at 5:16 AM, Bill Geipel <l129bs@gmail.com> wrote:
Air dryer filter as on airlines for paint gun? Cheap and easy before
bottle.
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 13, 2015, at 13:58, Sam Sax <cd001633@mindspring.com> wrote:
Ernie,
Would a Drain port be needed here as in the original tank
for draining moisture/water?
Sam
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 6:15 PM
To: yak-list
Subject: Yak-List: Main Air Tank
Here are pics of the tank I fashioned for my plane.
Specs:
Drager 4500 PSI 60 min Carbon Fiber Wrapped Aluminum Tank.
Weight 10 lbs
Length 21"
Diameter 7"
Hydro Tested to 7500 PSI.
Fittings:
Stainless Steel SCBA to NPT Adapter
NPT to AN #4 Male Adapter.
This should fit in the same bracket where the stock tanks
lives. All thats left is to create an aluminum tube pigtail with an AN B-Nut
on one end and the Chinese Nut on the other.
<image002.jpg><image004.jpg>
D============================================
ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
D============================================
//forums.matronics.com
D============================================
ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
D============================================
et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 9
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|
Mark=2C
Does the 50 also have shuttle valves?
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau=2C WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1966 Cessna 150F ^/---//-X
N8558G //Hangar #35 / AUW
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //Hangar #21 / AUW
> From: mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Main Air Tank
> Date: Fri=2C 13 Mar 2015 18:27:59 +0000
>
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Another difference between the YAK-50 and YAK-52 original design.
>
> On the 52=2C the emergency bottle is only filled via the aircrafts extern
al fill port. Main bottle is filled by either the external fill port=2C or
the engine compressor.
>
> On the YAK-50=2C both bottles are filled by the engine compressor or the
external fill port.
>
> Not sure why they were designed differently=2C but that said the 52 emerg
ency bottle is a one shot kind of thing=2C once it empty=2C it's empty. On
the 50=2C you can close it=2C wait for it to pump up in-flight and try it
again.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
> Sent: Friday=2C March 13=2C 2015 9:23 AM
> To: yak-list
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Main Air Tank
>
> Not quite sure I understand your question. Are you referring to the main
air tank or the emergency tank scenario I illustrated?
>
> Nothing changes WRT to the main air tank mod. Its just a simple replaceme
nt. The air pressure in the tank would be whatever you have your pressure r
elief valve set to=2C generally 50 bar or about 750 PSI.
>
> With the emergency tank=2C there is no input to the emergency bottle. It
is standalone with just output to the emergency circuit. The pressure in th
e bottle is 4500 PSI=2C regulated down to 800 PSI.
>
>
> Ernie
>
> On Fri=2C Mar 13=2C 2015 at 9:15 AM=2C Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc@me.com> wr
ote:
>
>
> What is the lone pressure from the compressor to the tank?
> Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Mar 13=2C 2015=2C at 5:16 AM=2C Bill Geipel <l129bs@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>
>
> Air dryer filter as on airlines for paint gun? Cheap and
easy before bottle.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Mar 13=2C 2015=2C at 13:58=2C Sam Sax <cd001633@mindsp
ring.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Ernie=2C
>
>
>
> Would a Drain port be needed here as in the origi
nal tank for draining moisture/water?
>
>
>
> Sam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto
:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
> Sent: Thursday=2C March 12=2C 2015 6:15 PM
> To: yak-list
> Subject: Yak-List: Main Air Tank
>
>
>
> Here are pics of the tank I fashioned for my plan
e.
>
>
>
> Specs:
>
>
>
> Drager 4500 PSI 60 min Carbon Fiber Wrapped Alumi
num Tank.
>
> Weight 10 lbs
>
> Length 21"
>
> Diameter 7"
>
> Hydro Tested to 7500 PSI.
>
>
>
> Fittings:
>
> Stainless Steel SCBA to NPT Adapter
>
> NPT to AN #4 Male Adapter.
>
>
>
> This should fit in the same bracket where the sto
ck tanks lives. All thats left is to create an aluminum tube pigtail with a
n AN B-Nut on one end and the Chinese Nut on the other.
>
>
>
> <image002.jpg><image004.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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=3D=3D=3D=3D
> ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D
> //forums.matronics.com
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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> ot=3B">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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>
>
>
>
>
> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: -52 Interior Sidewall Upholstery |
this is what i have done to my Yak to refresh the battered interiors and add some
more pocktets to have a decent handy storage for charts etc.
The Yak is Yellow so black leather with Yellow sticking.
:D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439326#439326
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/yak52_interiors_101.jpg
Message 11
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| Subject: | Main air Tank Update |
Well, I'm typing this in hopes that maybe it'll make it to the list since
nothing else I've posted has made it up.
I went to the hangar today to measure the spot where the main tank lives,
and my tank is too long to put it in the same place. Theres only about 17"
of clearance there and my tank is 22", so it's NOT a direct replacement.
But in my case this will work just as well, My smoke system, battery and
ELT are mounted on a deck above where the tank is anyway and it would be a
real pain to have to remove all this crap every time I want to Hydro my air
tank, and being able to Hydro test it locally is one of the main reasons
for this conversion. So I'm just going to mount my tank up in front of my
Smoke Tank and Battery box. This will make it super simple to remove, and
it will not detract from my baggage space at all.
Ernie
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Emergency Air |
Guys if this post is actually making it up, can you let me know. I'm not
> having success posting to the list today. Thanks!
>
>
> Nothing I've done here is of my own invention, all I'm doing is leveraging
> what the paintball community has been doing for years.
>
> For example, I have another idea for the emergency system that I'm
> contemplating. Firefighters use a much smaller Carbon Fiber bottle (98
> Cu/In) for emergencies in case their main breathing apparatus fails. It is
> sometimes referred to as an "Oh Shit" bottle. It is meant to supply 5 min
> of breathing air. It weighs about 2 lbs and fits in the palm of your hand.
>
> These bottles have a working pressure of 4500 Lbs. Total volume of air in
> a cylinder is the result of initial volume multiplied by the pressure. For
> example our stock spherical bottle in our CJ has a water capacity of 3
> liters, or about .1Cu/Ft. At 750 PSI that equates to about 5 Cu/Ft of air.
>
> The storage volume for a compressed gas can be calculated using Boyle's
> Law:
>
> *pa Va = pc Vc (1)*
>
> *where*
>
> *pa = atmospheric pressure (14.7 psia,* *101.325 kPa**)*
>
> *Va = volume of the gas at atmospheric pressure (cubic feet, cubic meter)*
>
> *pc = compressed pressure (psi,* *kPa**)*
>
> *Vc = volume of the gas at compressed pressure (cubic feet, cubic meter)*
>
> *e.g. 750 psi x .1Cu/Ft / 14.7 = 5.1 Cu/Ft*
>
> 5.1 Cu/Ft is the total volume of air that is required to blow down the
> gear and have some left for flaps and brakes.
>
> Now take the same equation and apply it to the mini bottle. .057 x 4500 /
> 14.7 = *17.4 Cu/Ft* !
>
> This means that the tiny little bottle has the potential to hold 3 times
> the amount of air as our stock system.
>
> But wait you say....I can't use 4500 PSI in my system.......Well yes
> you're right whoever you are.. But the paintballers come to the rescue
> again. Their guns can't handle 4500 PSI either, but coincidentally they
> work at around 800 PSI. The paintballers have developed small regulators
> that screw into the bottle and reduce the pressure to the lower pressure
> usable in our airplanes.
>
> In order to use this you would give up charging the emergency system from
> the on board air system however. This would be a system where you would
> need to recharge after an emergency deployment. The bottle would be
> deployed in the cockpit replacing the emergency air valve and plumbed
> directly to the emergency circuit. Total loss systems were common in many
> airplanes, The Mig15 comes to mind.
>
> This setup however would eliminate several sources of problems/leaks
> including:
> The Air Valve (Can't hold emergency air?)
> The Check Valve (Can't get your gear up????)
> It would also eliminate the Tee from the main air system, and all the
> tubing and weight from the tail. So basically it is a much simpler system,
> albeit 1 shot, actually 3 shots.
>
> The bottle can be easily unscrewed for recharging at your local firehouse
> or paintball or scuba store (Yes 3000 PSI would work but not as many blows).
>
> During annual inspections when you're doing multiple blows you can just
> recharge from your own Scuba bottle to 3000 PSI a butt load of times.
>
> And best of all A brand new bottle and regulator is about $200, available
> on Amazon, and all it takes is a few adapters to fit in our airplane.
>
> The Main Air tank at 750 PSI contains 20 Cu/Ft of air. As a bonus you
> could carry a spare mini bottle in your luggage, which you could use to
> replace the emergency bottle after a blow, or in a pinch, you could fill
> your main air tank enough to get you started! It would be about 3 Cu/Ft
> short, but we've all started with less than full tanks.
>
> Now here are some caveats.
>
> Both solutions use the Carbon Fiber wrapped aluminum cylinders. The Carbon
> fiber is what allows the higher pressures. They have a DOT requirement for
> Hydro checking every 5 years. Steel cylinders are every 3 years.
>
> DOT dictates that Carbon Fiber wrapped cylinders have a life limit of 15
> years, but this is for commercial use at 4500 PSI. The main air bottle will
> never be pressurized beyond 750 PSI so it should last indefinitely. The
> emergency system would be fully pressurized, but I can spring for $200
> bucks every 15 years.
>
> Ernie
>
Message 13
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Yes, it does.
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
on behalf of Rico Jaeger [rocknpilot@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 2:48 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Main Air Tank
Mark,
Does the 50 also have shuttle valves?
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau, WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1966 Cessna 150F ^/---//-X
N8558G //
Hangar #35 / AUW
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
Hangar #21 / AUW
> From: mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Main Air Tank
> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 18:27:59 +0000
>
>
> Another difference between the YAK-50 and YAK-52 original design.
>
> On the 52, the emergency bottle is only filled via the aircrafts external fill
port. Main bottle is filled by either the external fill port, or the engine
compressor.
>
> On the YAK-50, both bottles are filled by the engine compressor or the external
fill port.
>
> Not sure why they were designed differently, but that said the 52 emergency bottle
is a one shot kind of thing, once it empty, it's empty. On the 50, you can
close it, wait for it to pump up in-flight and try it again.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 9:23 AM
> To: yak-list
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Main Air Tank
>
> Not quite sure I understand your question. Are you referring to the main air
tank or the emergency tank scenario I illustrated?
>
> Nothing changes WRT to the main air tank mod. Its just a simple replacement.
The air pressure in the tank would be whatever you have your pressure relief valve
set to, generally 50 bar or about 750 PSI.
>
> With the emergency tank, there is no input to the emergency bottle. It is standalone
with just output to the emergency circuit. The pressure in the bottle
is 4500 PSI, regulated down to 800 PSI.
>
>
> Ernie
>
> On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc@me.com> wrote:
>
>
> What is the lone pressure from the compressor to the tank?
> Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Mar 13, 2015, at 5:16 AM, Bill Geipel <l129bs@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Air dryer filter as on airlines for paint gun? Cheap and easy before bottle.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Mar 13, 2015, at 13:58, Sam Sax <cd001633@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ernie,
>
>
> Would a Drain port be needed here as in the original tank for draining moisture/water?
>
>
> Sam
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 6:15 PM
> To: yak-list
> Subject: Yak-List: Main Air Tank
>
>
> Here are pics of the tank I fashioned for my plane.
>
>
> Specs:
>
>
> Drager 4500 PSI 60 min Carbon Fiber Wrapped Aluminum Tank.
>
> Weight 10 lbs
>
> Length 21"
>
> Diameter 7"
>
> Hydro Tested to 7500 PSI.
>
>
> Fittings:
>
> Stainless Steel SCBA to NPT Adapter
>
> NPT to AN #4 Male Adapter.
>
>
> This should fit in the same bracket where the stock tanks lives. All thats left
is to create an aluminum tube pigtail with an AN B-Nut on one end and the Chinese
Nut on the other.
>
>
> <image002.jpg><image004.jpg>
>
>
> D============================================
> ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> D============================================
> //forums.matronics.com
> D============================================
> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> D============================================
>
>
> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>======================
&g====================
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Emergency Air |
Go for it Ernie.
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
on behalf of Ernest Martinez [erniel29@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 4:28 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Emergency Air
Guys if this post is actually making it up, can you let me know. I'm not having
success posting to the list today. Thanks!
Nothing I've done here is of my own invention, all I'm doing is leveraging what
the paintball community has been doing for years.
For example, I have another idea for the emergency system that I'm contemplating.
Firefighters use a much smaller Carbon Fiber bottle (98 Cu/In) for emergencies
in case their main breathing apparatus fails. It is sometimes referred to
as an "Oh Shit" bottle. It is meant to supply 5 min of breathing air. It weighs
about 2 lbs and fits in the palm of your hand.
These bottles have a working pressure of 4500 Lbs. Total volume of air in a cylinder
is the result of initial volume multiplied by the pressure. For example
our stock spherical bottle in our CJ has a water capacity of 3 liters, or about
.1Cu/Ft. At 750 PSI that equates to about 5 Cu/Ft of air.
The storage volume for a compressed gas can be calculated using Boyle's Law:
pa Va = pc Vc (1)
where
pa = atmospheric pressure (14.7 psia, 101.325 kPa)
Va = volume of the gas at atmospheric pressure (cubic feet, cubic meter)
pc = compressed pressure (psi, kPa)
Vc = volume of the gas at compressed pressure (cubic feet, cubic meter)
e.g. 750 psi x .1Cu/Ft / 14.7 = 5.1 Cu/Ft
5.1 Cu/Ft is the total volume of air that is required to blow down the gear and
have some left for flaps and brakes.
Now take the same equation and apply it to the mini bottle. .057 x 4500 / 14.7
= 17.4 Cu/Ft !
This means that the tiny little bottle has the potential to hold 3 times the amount
of air as our stock system.
But wait you say....I can't use 4500 PSI in my system.......Well yes you're right
whoever you are.. But the paintballers come to the rescue again. Their guns
can't handle 4500 PSI either, but coincidentally they work at around 800 PSI.
The paintballers have developed small regulators that screw into the bottle and
reduce the pressure to the lower pressure usable in our airplanes.
In order to use this you would give up charging the emergency system from the on
board air system however. This would be a system where you would need to recharge
after an emergency deployment. The bottle would be deployed in the cockpit
replacing the emergency air valve and plumbed directly to the emergency circuit.
Total loss systems were common in many airplanes, The Mig15 comes to mind.
This setup however would eliminate several sources of problems/leaks including:
The Air Valve (Can't hold emergency air?)
The Check Valve (Can't get your gear up????)
It would also eliminate the Tee from the main air system, and all the tubing and
weight from the tail. So basically it is a much simpler system, albeit 1 shot,
actually 3 shots.
The bottle can be easily unscrewed for recharging at your local firehouse or paintball
or scuba store (Yes 3000 PSI would work but not as many blows).
During annual inspections when you're doing multiple blows you can just recharge
from your own Scuba bottle to 3000 PSI a butt load of times.
And best of all A brand new bottle and regulator is about $200, available on Amazon,
and all it takes is a few adapters to fit in our airplane.
The Main Air tank at 750 PSI contains 20 Cu/Ft of air. As a bonus you could carry
a spare mini bottle in your luggage, which you could use to replace the emergency
bottle after a blow, or in a pinch, you could fill your main air tank enough
to get you started! It would be about 3 Cu/Ft short, but we've all started
with less than full tanks.
Now here are some caveats.
Both solutions use the Carbon Fiber wrapped aluminum cylinders. The Carbon fiber
is what allows the higher pressures. They have a DOT requirement for Hydro checking
every 5 years. Steel cylinders are every 3 years.
DOT dictates that Carbon Fiber wrapped cylinders have a life limit of 15 years,
but this is for commercial use at 4500 PSI. The main air bottle will never be
pressurized beyond 750 PSI so it should last indefinitely. The emergency system
would be fully pressurized, but I can spring for $200 bucks every 15 years.
Ernie
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