Yak-List Digest Archive

Sat 03/14/15


Total Messages Posted: 8



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:06 AM - Yak 52 Weight and Balance. Help? (ZUDSJ)
     2. 10:00 AM - Air tanks (Ernest Martinez)
     3. 10:01 AM - Emergency Air Tank. (Ernest Martinez)
     4. 10:01 AM - Main Air Tank (Again) (Ernest Martinez)
     5. 10:01 AM - Emergency Air (Ernest Martinez)
     6. 10:01 AM - Re: Main Air Tank (Ernest Martinez)
     7. 08:23 PM - Re: Main Air Tank (Walter Lannon)
     8. 10:16 PM - Re: Main Air Tank (Roger Kemp)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:06:44 AM PST US
    Subject: Yak 52 Weight and Balance. Help?
    From: "ZUDSJ" <waferflex@gmail.com>
    Hi Yakmen Please could someone assist me with a workable Yak 52 weight and balance table. I tried figuring out the one on yakuk but can't make sense of it.Especially when I see that the excel spreadsheet says NOT OK when I am only 1 up with full tanks. In particular what I am interested in is calculating CG position with two up and a smoke system...Please could someone assist. Best Regards Jason Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=439352#439352


    Message 2


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    Time: 10:00:59 AM PST US
    Subject: Air tanks
    From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
    I thought I posted this to the list, but apparently I replied directly to someone. So for those of you who are interested. Nothing I've done here is of my own invention, all I'm doing is leveraging what the paintball community has been doing for years. For example, I have another idea for the emergency system that I'm contemplating. Firefighters use a much smaller Carbon Fiber bottle (98 Cu/In) for emergencies in case their main breathing apparatus fails. It is sometimes referred to as an "Oh Shit" bottle. It is meant to supply 5 min of breathing air. It weighs about 2 lbs and fits in the palm of your hand. These bottles have a working pressure of 4500 Lbs. Total volume of air in a cylinder is the result of initial volume multiplied by the pressure. For example our stock spherical bottle in our CJ has a water capacity of 3 liters, or about .1Cu/Ft. At 750 PSI that equates to about 5 Cu/Ft of air. The storage volume for a compressed gas can be calculated using Boyle's Law: *pa Va = pc Vc (1)* *where* *pa = atmospheric <http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/stp-standard-ntp-normal-air-d_772.html> pressure (14.7 psia,* *101.325 kPa**)* *Va = volume of the gas at atmospheric <http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/stp-standard-ntp-normal-air-d_772.html> pressure (cubic feet, cubic meter)* *pc = compressed pressure (psi,* *kPa**)* *Vc = volume of the gas at compressed pressure (cubic feet, cubic meter)* *e.g. 750 psi x .1Cu/Ft / 14.7 = 5.1 Cu/Ft* 5.1 Cu/Ft is the total volume of air that is required to blow down the gear and have some left for flaps and brakes. Now take the same equation and apply it to the mini bottle. .057 x 4500 / 14.7 = *17.4 Cu/Ft* ! This means that the tiny little bottle has the potential to hold 3 times the amount of air as our stock system. But wait you say....I can't use 4500 PSI in my system.......Well yes you're right whoever you are.. But the paintballers come to the rescue again. Their guns can't handle 4500 PSI either, but coincidentally they work at around 800 PSI. The paintballers have developed small regulators that screw into the bottle and reduce the pressure to the lower pressure usable in our airplanes. In order to use this you would give up charging the emergency system from the on board air system however. This would be a system where you would need to recharge after an emergency deployment. The bottle would be deployed in the cockpit replacing the emergency air valve and plumbed directly to the emergency circuit. Total loss systems were common in many airplanes, The Mig15 comes to mind. This setup however would eliminate several sources of problems/leaks including: The Air Valve (Can't hold emergency air?) The Check Valve (Can't get your gear up????) It would also eliminate the Tee from the main air system, and all the tubing and weight from the tail. So basically it is a much simpler system, albeit 1 shot, actually 3 shots. The bottle can be easily unscrewed for recharging at your local firehouse or paintball or scuba store (Yes 3000 PSI would work but not as many blows). During annual inspections when you're doing multiple blows you can just recharge from your own Scuba bottle to 3000 PSI a butt load of times. And best of all A brand new bottle and regulator is about $200, available on Amazon, and all it takes is a few adapters to fit in our airplane. The Main Air tank at 750 PSI contains 20 Cu/Ft of air. As a bonus you could carry a spare mini bottle in your luggage, which you could use to replace the emergency bottle after a blow, or in a pinch, you could fill your main air tank enough to get you started! It would be about 3 Cu/Ft short, but we've all started with less than full tanks. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AD77NYQ/ref=s9_simh_gw_p200_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=031NJAXFFBVH8WFXX30N&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=1970559082&pf_rd_i=desktop Now here are some caveats. Both solutions use the Carbon Fiber wrapped aluminum cylinders. The Carbon fiber is what allows the higher pressures. They have a DOT requirement for Hydro checking every 5 years. Steel cylinders are every 3 years. Carbon Fiber wrapped cylinders have a life limit of 15 years, but this is for commercial use at 4500 PSI. The main air bottle will never be pressurized beyond 750 PSI so it should last indefinitely. The emergency system would be fully pressurized, but I can spring for $200 bucks every 15 years. Ernie


    Message 3


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    Time: 10:01:00 AM PST US
    Subject: Emergency Air Tank.
    From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
    Sorry if this arrives multiple times. This was in response to DaBears post earlier, it never made it up. Nothing I've done here is of my own invention, all I'm doing is leveraging what the paintball community has been doing for years. For example, I have another idea for the emergency system that I'm contemplating. Firefighters use a much smaller Carbon Fiber bottle (98 Cu/In) for emergencies in case their main breathing apparatus fails. It is sometimes referred to as an "Oh Shit" bottle. It is meant to supply 5 min of breathing air. It weighs about 2 lbs and fits in the palm of your hand. These bottles have a working pressure of 4500 Lbs. Total volume of air in a cylinder is the result of initial volume multiplied by the pressure. For example our stock spherical bottle in our CJ has a water capacity of 3 liters, or about .1Cu/Ft. At 750 PSI that equates to about 5 Cu/Ft of air. The storage volume for a compressed gas can be calculated using Boyle's Law: *pa Va = pc Vc (1)* *where* *pa = atmospheric <http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/stp-standard-ntp-normal-air-d_772.html> pressure (14.7 psia,* *101.325 kPa**)* *Va = volume of the gas at atmospheric <http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/stp-standard-ntp-normal-air-d_772.html> pressure (cubic feet, cubic meter)* *pc = compressed pressure (psi,* *kPa**)* *Vc = volume of the gas at compressed pressure (cubic feet, cubic meter)* *e.g. 750 psi x .1Cu/Ft / 14.7 = 5.1 Cu/Ft* 5.1 Cu/Ft is the total volume of air that is required to blow down the gear and have some left for flaps and brakes. Now take the same equation and apply it to the mini bottle. .057 x 4500 / 14.7 = *17.4 Cu/Ft* ! This means that the tiny little bottle has the potential to hold 3 times the amount of air as our stock system. But wait you say....I can't use 4500 PSI in my system.......Well yes you're right whoever you are.. But the paintballers come to the rescue again. Their guns can't handle 4500 PSI either, but coincidentally they work at around 800 PSI. The paintballers have developed small regulators that screw into the bottle and reduce the pressure to the lower pressure usable in our airplanes. In order to use this you would give up charging the emergency system from the on board air system however. This would be a system where you would need to recharge after an emergency deployment. The bottle would be deployed in the cockpit replacing the emergency air valve and plumbed directly to the emergency circuit. Total loss systems were common in many airplanes, The Mig15 comes to mind. This setup however would eliminate several sources of problems/leaks including: The Air Valve (Can't hold emergency air?) The Check Valve (Can't get your gear up????) It would also eliminate the Tee from the main air system, and all the tubing and weight from the tail. So basically it is a much simpler system, albeit 1 shot, actually 3 shots. The bottle can be easily unscrewed for recharging at your local firehouse or paintball or scuba store (Yes 3000 PSI would work but not as many blows). During annual inspections when you're doing multiple blows you can just recharge from your own Scuba bottle to 3000 PSI a butt load of times. And best of all A brand new bottle and regulator is about $200, available on Amazon, and all it takes is a few adapters to fit in our airplane. The Main Air tank at 750 PSI contains 20 Cu/Ft of air. As a bonus you could carry a spare mini bottle in your luggage, which you could use to replace the emergency bottle after a blow, or in a pinch, you could fill your main air tank enough to get you started! It would be about 3 Cu/Ft short, but we've all started with less than full tanks. Now here are some caveats. Both solutions use the Carbon Fiber wrapped aluminum cylinders. The Carbon fiber is what allows the higher pressures. They have a DOT requirement for Hydro checking every 5 years. Steel cylinders are every 3 years. Carbon Fiber wrapped cylinders have a life limit of 15 years, but this is for commercial use at 4500 PSI. The main air bottle will never be pressurized beyond 750 PSI so it should last indefinitely. The emergency system would be fully pressurized, but I can spring for $200 bucks every 15 years. Ernie


    Message 4


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    Time: 10:01:00 AM PST US
    Subject: Main Air Tank (Again)
    From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
    Sorry if you are receiving this twice. Half my posts don't make it up and I only receive half the posts. I went to the Yaklist web archive to see if this post made it, but it didn't. And I missed Hoots reply to me. Anyway heres another try. thought I posted this to the list, but apparently I replied directly to someone. So for those of you who are interested. Nothing I've done here is of my own invention, all I'm doing is leveraging what the paintball community has been doing for years. For example, I have another idea for the emergency system that I'm contemplating. Firefighters use a much smaller Carbon Fiber bottle (98 Cu/In) for emergencies in case their main breathing apparatus fails. It is sometimes referred to as an "Oh Shit" bottle. It is meant to supply 5 min of breathing air. It weighs about 2 lbs and fits in the palm of your hand. These bottles have a working pressure of 4500 Lbs. Total volume of air in a cylinder is the result of initial volume multiplied by the pressure. For example our stock spherical bottle in our CJ has a water capacity of 3 liters, or about .1Cu/Ft. At 750 PSI that equates to about 5 Cu/Ft of air. The storage volume for a compressed gas can be calculated using Boyle's Law: *pa Va = pc Vc (1)* *where* *pa = atmospheric <http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/stp-standard-ntp-normal-air-d_772.html> pressure (14.7 psia,* *101.325 kPa**)* *Va = volume of the gas at atmospheric <http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/stp-standard-ntp-normal-air-d_772.html> pressure (cubic feet, cubic meter)* *pc = compressed pressure (psi,* *kPa**)* *Vc = volume of the gas at compressed pressure (cubic feet, cubic meter)* *e.g. 750 psi x .1Cu/Ft / 14.7 = 5.1 Cu/Ft* 5.1 Cu/Ft is the total volume of air that is required to blow down the gear and have some left for flaps and brakes. Now take the same equation and apply it to the mini bottle. .057 x 4500 / 14.7 = *17.4 Cu/Ft* ! This means that the tiny little bottle has the potential to hold 3 times the amount of air as our stock system. But wait you say....I can't use 4500 PSI in my system.......Well yes you're right whoever you are.. But the paintballers come to the rescue again. Their guns can't handle 4500 PSI either, but coincidentally they work at around 800 PSI. The paintballers have developed small regulators that screw into the bottle and reduce the pressure to the lower pressure usable in our airplanes. In order to use this you would give up charging the emergency system from the on board air system however. This would be a system where you would need to recharge after an emergency deployment. The bottle would be deployed in the cockpit replacing the emergency air valve and plumbed directly to the emergency circuit. Total loss systems were common in many airplanes, The Mig15 comes to mind. This setup however would eliminate several sources of problems/leaks including: The Air Valve (Can't hold emergency air?) The Check Valve (Can't get your gear up????) It would also eliminate the Tee from the main air system, and all the tubing and weight from the tail. So basically it is a much simpler system, albeit 1 shot, actually 3 shots. The bottle can be easily unscrewed for recharging at your local firehouse or paintball or scuba store (Yes 3000 PSI would work but not as many blows). During annual inspections when you're doing multiple blows you can just recharge from your own Scuba bottle to 3000 PSI a butt load of times. And best of all A brand new bottle and regulator is about $200, available on Amazon, and all it takes is a few adapters to fit in our airplane. The Main Air tank at 750 PSI contains 20 Cu/Ft of air. As a bonus you could carry a spare mini bottle in your luggage, which you could use to replace the emergency bottle after a blow, or in a pinch, you could fill your main air tank enough to get you started! It would be about 3 Cu/Ft short, but we've all started with less than full tanks. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AD77NYQ/ref=s9_simh_gw_p200_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=031NJAXFFBVH8WFXX30N&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=1970559082&pf_rd_i=desktop Now here are some caveats. Both solutions use the Carbon Fiber wrapped aluminum cylinders. The Carbon fiber is what allows the higher pressures. They have a DOT requirement for Hydro checking every 5 years. Steel cylinders are every 3 years. Carbon Fiber wrapped cylinders have a life limit of 15 years, but this is for commercial use at 4500 PSI. The main air bottle will never be pressurized beyond 750 PSI so it should last indefinitely. The emergency system would be fully pressurized, but I can spring for $200 bucks every 15 years. Ernie


    Message 5


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    Time: 10:01:01 AM PST US
    Subject: Emergency Air
    From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
    Guys if this post is actually making it up, can you let me know. I'm not having success posting to the list today. Thanks! Nothing I've done here is of my own invention, all I'm doing is leveraging what the paintball community has been doing for years. For example, I have another idea for the emergency system that I'm contemplating. Firefighters use a much smaller Carbon Fiber bottle (98 Cu/In) for emergencies in case their main breathing apparatus fails. It is sometimes referred to as an "Oh Shit" bottle. It is meant to supply 5 min of breathing air. It weighs about 2 lbs and fits in the palm of your hand. These bottles have a working pressure of 4500 Lbs. Total volume of air in a cylinder is the result of initial volume multiplied by the pressure. For example our stock spherical bottle in our CJ has a water capacity of 3 liters, or about .1Cu/Ft. At 750 PSI that equates to about 5 Cu/Ft of air. The storage volume for a compressed gas can be calculated using Boyle's Law: *pa Va = pc Vc (1)* *where* *pa = atmospheric <http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/stp-standard-ntp-normal-air-d_772.html> pressure (14.7 psia,* *101.325 kPa**)* *Va = volume of the gas at atmospheric <http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/stp-standard-ntp-normal-air-d_772.html> pressure (cubic feet, cubic meter)* *pc = compressed pressure (psi,* *kPa**)* *Vc = volume of the gas at compressed pressure (cubic feet, cubic meter)* *e.g. 750 psi x .1Cu/Ft / 14.7 = 5.1 Cu/Ft* 5.1 Cu/Ft is the total volume of air that is required to blow down the gear and have some left for flaps and brakes. Now take the same equation and apply it to the mini bottle. .057 x 4500 / 14.7 = *17.4 Cu/Ft* ! This means that the tiny little bottle has the potential to hold 3 times the amount of air as our stock system. But wait you say....I can't use 4500 PSI in my system.......Well yes you're right whoever you are.. But the paintballers come to the rescue again. Their guns can't handle 4500 PSI either, but coincidentally they work at around 800 PSI. The paintballers have developed small regulators that screw into the bottle and reduce the pressure to the lower pressure usable in our airplanes. In order to use this you would give up charging the emergency system from the on board air system however. This would be a system where you would need to recharge after an emergency deployment. The bottle would be deployed in the cockpit replacing the emergency air valve and plumbed directly to the emergency circuit. Total loss systems were common in many airplanes, The Mig15 comes to mind. This setup however would eliminate several sources of problems/leaks including: The Air Valve (Can't hold emergency air?) The Check Valve (Can't get your gear up????) It would also eliminate the Tee from the main air system, and all the tubing and weight from the tail. So basically it is a much simpler system, albeit 1 shot, actually 3 shots. The bottle can be easily unscrewed for recharging at your local firehouse or paintball or scuba store (Yes 3000 PSI would work but not as many blows). During annual inspections when you're doing multiple blows you can just recharge from your own Scuba bottle to 3000 PSI a butt load of times. And best of all A brand new bottle and regulator is about $200, available on Amazon, and all it takes is a few adapters to fit in our airplane. The Main Air tank at 750 PSI contains 20 Cu/Ft of air. As a bonus you could carry a spare mini bottle in your luggage, which you could use to replace the emergency bottle after a blow, or in a pinch, you could fill your main air tank enough to get you started! It would be about 3 Cu/Ft short, but we've all started with less than full tanks. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AD77NYQ/ref=s9_simh_gw_p200_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=031NJAXFFBVH8WFXX30N&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=1970559082&pf_rd_i=desktop Now here are some caveats. Both solutions use the Carbon Fiber wrapped aluminum cylinders. The Carbon fiber is what allows the higher pressures. They have a DOT requirement for Hydro checking every 5 years. Steel cylinders are every 3 years. DOT dictates that Carbon Fiber wrapped cylinders have a life limit of 15 years, but this is for commercial use at 4500 PSI. The main air bottle will never be pressurized beyond 750 PSI so it should last indefinitely. The emergency system would be fully pressurized, but I can spring for $200 bucks every 15 years. Ernie


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:01:02 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Main Air Tank
    From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
    Sam, Good question. Unfortunately High Pressure tanks have to be seamless so a drain port is not a possibility. This is why it's important to keep your air dryer serviced. But since it's aluminum rust isn't an issue. Would have to make it part of the annual service routine to remove and dump. Ernie On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 12:58 AM, Sam Sax <cd001633@mindspring.com> wrote: > Ernie, > > > Would a Drain port be needed here as in the original tank for draining > moisture/water? > > > Sam > > > *From:* owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Ernest Martinez > *Sent:* Thursday, March 12, 2015 6:15 PM > *To:* yak-list > *Subject:* Yak-List: Main Air Tank > > > Here are pics of the tank I fashioned for my plane. > > > Specs: > > > Drager 4500 PSI 60 min Carbon Fiber Wrapped Aluminum Tank. > > Weight 10 lbs > > Length 21" > > Diameter 7" > > Hydro Tested to 7500 PSI. > > > Fittings: > > Stainless Steel SCBA to NPT Adapter > > NPT to AN #4 Male Adapter. > > > This should fit in the same bracket where the stock tanks lives. All thats > left is to create an aluminum tube pigtail with an AN B-Nut on one end and > the Chinese Nut on the other. > > > [image: Inline image 1][image: Inline image 2] > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:23:23 PM PST US
    From: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: Main Air Tank
    Ernie; =9CSince it=99s aluminum rust isn=99t an issue=9D. That may be the case but only if it is pure aluminum which is protected from corrosion by it=99s own oxide layer. If it is an alloy that protection is seriously degraded depending on the alloy composition and strength. Pure aluminum has a strength something like cheddar cheese. However if the entire strength of the tank is derived from the carbon fibre wrapping then pure aluminum would be suitable. Something to consider. Walt From: Ernest Martinez Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 4:36 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Main Air Tank Sam, Good question. Unfortunately High Pressure tanks have to be seamless so a drain port is not a possibility. This is why it's important to keep your air dryer serviced. But since it's aluminum rust isn't an issue. Would have to make it part of the annual service routine to remove and dump. Ernie On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 12:58 AM, Sam Sax <cd001633@mindspring.com> wrote: Ernie, Would a Drain port be needed here as in the original tank for draining moisture/water? Sam From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 6:15 PM To: yak-list Subject: Yak-List: Main Air Tank Here are pics of the tank I fashioned for my plane. Specs: Drager 4500 PSI 60 min Carbon Fiber Wrapped Aluminum Tank. Weight 10 lbs Length 21" Diameter 7" Hydro Tested to 7500 PSI. Fittings: Stainless Steel SCBA to NPT Adapter NPT to AN #4 Male Adapter. This should fit in the same bracket where the stock tanks lives. All thats left is to create an aluminum tube pigtail with an AN B-Nut on one end and the Chinese Nut on the other.


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:16:06 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Main Air Tank
    From: Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc@me.com>
    Line pressure from the compressor before entering the pop- off valve. Miss t yped the word line. Came over as lone. Sorry poor proof reading, Doc Sent from my iPad > On Mar 13, 2015, at 8:23 AM, Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com> wrote: > > Not quite sure I understand your question. Are you referring to the main a ir tank or the emergency tank scenario I illustrated? > > Nothing changes WRT to the main air tank mod. Its just a simple replacemen t. The air pressure in the tank would be whatever you have your pressure rel ief valve set to, generally 50 bar or about 750 PSI. > > With the emergency tank, there is no input to the emergency bottle. It is s tandalone with just output to the emergency circuit. The pressure in the bot tle is 4500 PSI, regulated down to 800 PSI. > > Ernie > >> On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc@me.com> wrote: >> What is the lone pressure from the compressor to the tank? >> Doc >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On Mar 13, 2015, at 5:16 AM, Bill Geipel <l129bs@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Air dryer filter as on airlines for paint gun? Cheap and easy before bot tle. >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On Mar 13, 2015, at 13:58, Sam Sax <cd001633@mindspring.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Ernie, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Would a Drain port be needed here as in the original tank for draining m oisture/water? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sam >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server @matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez >>>> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 6:15 PM >>>> To: yak-list >>>> Subject: Yak-List: Main Air Tank >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Here are pics of the tank I fashioned for my plane. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Specs: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Drager 4500 PSI 60 min Carbon Fiber Wrapped Aluminum Tank. >>>> >>>> Weight 10 lbs >>>> >>>> Length 21" >>>> >>>> Diameter 7" >>>> >>>> Hydro Tested to 7500 PSI. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Fittings: >>>> >>>> Stainless Steel SCBA to NPT Adapter >>>> >>>> NPT to AN #4 Male Adapter. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> This should fit in the same bracket where the stock tanks lives. All th ats left is to create an aluminum tube pigtail with an AN B-Nut on one end a nd the Chinese Nut on the other. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> <image002.jpg><image004.jpg> >>>> >>> >>> >>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List >>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> //forums.matronics.com >>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> >> >> >> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >




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