Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:07 AM - Re: Re: Air Leak Advice (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
2. 08:56 AM - Re: Air Leak Advice (LawnDart)
3. 09:48 AM - FW: Re: Air Leak Advice (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
4. 10:17 AM - CJ6A Huosai engine roughness (Walter Lannon)
5. 10:22 AM - Re: Re: Air Leak Advice (Walter Lannon)
6. 10:29 AM - Re: Air Leak Advice (AcroGimp)
7. 11:41 AM - Cleaning out the Hangar-- Yak prop-- M14P Mags--etc (Kregg Victory)
8. 11:52 AM - Re: Air Leak Advice (LawnDart)
9. 12:19 PM - Re: Re: Air Leak Advice (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
10. 01:02 PM - Re: Re: Air Leak Advice (Sam Sax)
11. 02:20 PM - Re: Re: Air Leak Advice (Frank Stelwagon)
12. 02:24 PM - Re: Re: Air Leak Advice (Mark Davis)
13. 06:27 PM - Re: Re: Air Leak Advice (Walter Lannon)
14. 08:24 PM - WI Formation Clinic (Rico Jaeger)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
Gimp,
Roger that. FYI, the flares on the Russian lines are the same angle that we use
for our standard AN fittings. So if you can get your hands on some Russian
(Chinese?) metric fittings you can very easily make an aluminum line with AN on
one side and Russian metric on the other, which is what I did. That said, I
seem to remember someone on this list once mentioning a source for adapter fittings
that go from AN to Metric. I know Kimbal has them for the M-14 engine,
but not sure about a commercial source. I am lucky enough to have a hydraulic
line and fitting shop 300 feet from my office, so we just rigged them up.
I am wondering if Doup Sapp might have something in that regard... he is really
good source for parts. Failing that Jill? Anyway, you bring up a good point.
Sooner or later EVERYONE on this list is going to have to deal with an air
leak of some type. Adapters made for this purpose would probably be a hot selling
item ... until everyone had a set. :-) Lots of really imaginative ideas
have posted on the matter of air leaks. It is a common topic, which is why
everyone has so many good suggestions... they've been through it.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AcroGimp
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2015 9:19 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m wrote:
> Gimp,
>
> You can reverse pressurize the line by going all the way up to the firewall check-valve
and taking it off there. Back feeding it there will then also check
the snot valve for leaks.
>
> The compressor is pumping these lines up to 730 (or so) PSI. Your tire compressor
will do 120, ... maybe. The problem is that you want to reverse pressurize
the lines, then shut the valve and have everything totally silent listening,
or using soap and water looking for bubbles, or an ultrasonic leak detector
if you happen to be so lucky to have one of those, and better yet by watching
the line pressure and seeing how fast it decreases.
>
> However, when you try to check for leaks with a system that uses 730 PSI, at
120 PSI with a compressor that does not have a shut-off isolation valve, you
get to the point where you really don't conclusively have the answer.
>
> If you find the leak with 120 PSI, then GREAT!
>
> If you don't find the leak with 120 PSI of air, then that does not prove that
there is not a leak. You have to test "stuff" under the same operating conditions
that they experience in flight, or with the engine running (not easy).
>
> Point of fact: If you own a Russian or Chinese aircraft that starts and operates
using compressed air at 730 PSI, then you need to have a source of air at
that same pressure or above, typically a SCUBA bottle, but it can be whatever
you come up with really. If you don't have that available, then consider it
one of your highest priorities to obtain. You needed it.... yesterday, if you
get my point. It is just a matter of time until you run out of air and need
it for OTHER reasons. The really GOOD set-up is to have some kind of pressure
regulator with gage available. The same kind of thing welders have, but capable
of having outlet pressure controllable to 700 PSI or so. What I am trying
to suggest gracefully is that you not try to just use whatever you have. If
you want to test it right, then you need to test it with the right equipment
and not whatever you happen to have in the garage... some may not agree, but if
you pull that compressor off and find there is not!
hing wrong with it.... you will then know for LIFE what I am talking about.
>
> Question: How many hours are on that compressor?
>
> Put the glove on the air INTAKE and not the output. It should suck it in ....
I would not put it on the output first. Read what Dennis said to you in that
regard.
>
> With the right tests using the right equipment you will get definitive results.
Doing it with less than that and I will wish you "Good Luck" :-)
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> --
Thanks Mark. I do have a SCUBA bottle for servicing the aircraft, just don't have
a connection that would do the job as I understand it, didn't think to use
it for this. Don't have the regulating/pressure gauge but can probably put something
together looking at welder supplies. I am guessing you have a hose with
the male fitting and just plug into the b-nut on lines you want to check?
No worries about pushing for the right tools, that's why I am asking here.
'Gimp
--------
Owner/Pilot N6209F 1987 Yak-52
COMM/ASEL/IFR/HP-Complex/TW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441107#441107
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
You can make (with a lathe) a simple adapter to connect to the line at the compressor
going to the snot bottle.
Get some Al round stock (1/2 inch diameter, about 3 inch length), drill hole the
entire length. One end, tap for a schrader valve, the other end will need M12x1.0
threads and 37 deg to accept the b-nut on the line to the snot bottle.
Now a scuba bottle can connect and pressurize everything downstream. I made
one years ago and has been very valuable for troubleshooting.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441124#441124
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
Dave wanted me to emphasize the requirement of a pressure regulator when back feeding
lines to the compressor and he is absolutely correct. Applying unregulated
air from a Scuba tank delivering 2000 PSI (or more) of air to these lines
will likely cause damage and could indeed be quite dangerous. So "Word to the
Wise" be careful!
Point of fact: Never exceed maximum recommended operating pressure to any system.
For the YAK's and Sukes (not sure of CJ's) the max is 50 atmos, which equates
to 734 PSI or so.
-----Original Message-----
From: KingCJ6@aol.com [mailto:KingCJ6@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
Your suggestion that one use a pressure gauge/regulator for a scuba tank, while
mentioned may not be noticed. If one were to hook up a tank at a point that
didnt first route through the pop-off valve, it would likely blow out numerous
downstream valves/fittings at 2000+ psi.
My browser blocks my posts to the Yak list for some reason, so you may want to
re-emphasize your important suggestion.
Dave King
Message 4
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| Subject: | CJ6A Huosai engine roughness |
The problem is roughness between 1000 and 1300 RPM. Idle is smooth as
are all power settings above 1300. I would sure appreciate advice
from anyone who may have encountered this problem or has a better
understand of the carb. than I do.
The engine has approx. 70 hrs. since O=99haul (but at least 20
years!). The problem showed up fairly early and appears to be
gradually getting worse.
Thanks;
Walt
PS: If anyone needs a CJ Huosai propeller I have one for sale on
Barnstormers under =9CCJ6A Propeller=9D.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
Hi Mark;
CJ is the same.
Walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 9:47 AM
Subject: FW: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Dave wanted me to emphasize the requirement of a pressure regulator when
back feeding lines to the compressor and he is absolutely correct. Applying
unregulated air from a Scuba tank delivering 2000 PSI (or more) of air to
these lines will likely cause damage and could indeed be quite dangerous.
So "Word to the Wise" be careful!
Point of fact: Never exceed maximum recommended operating pressure to any
system. For the YAK's and Sukes (not sure of CJ's) the max is 50 atmos,
which equates to 734 PSI or so.
-----Original Message-----
From: KingCJ6@aol.com [mailto:KingCJ6@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
Your suggestion that one use a pressure gauge/regulator for a scuba tank,
while mentioned may not be noticed. If one were to hook up a tank at a
point that didnt first route through the pop-off valve, it would likely
blow out numerous downstream valves/fittings at 2000+ psi.
My browser blocks my posts to the Yak list for some reason, so you may want
to re-emphasize your important suggestion.
Dave King
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m wrote:
> Dave wanted me to emphasize the requirement of a pressure regulator when back
feeding lines to the compressor and he is absolutely correct. Applying unregulated
air from a Scuba tank delivering 2000 PSI (or more) of air to these lines
will likely cause damage and could indeed be quite dangerous. So "Word to
the Wise" be careful!
>
> Point of fact: Never exceed maximum recommended operating pressure to any system.
For the YAK's and Sukes (not sure of CJ's) the max is 50 atmos, which equates
to 734 PSI or so.
>
>
> --
Understood, I found a welding regulator that has PSI and ATM on the gage face and
would never apply unregulated 2000-3000 PSI tank air to lines that operate
at around 700. Issue now is fabbing a line that connects to the regulated output
and then can connect to the air lines on the Yak. One I figure it out I might
post up some photos and a drawing and parts list since I am hoping to be
able to cobble something together from COTS parts.
'Gimp
--------
Owner/Pilot N6209F 1987 Yak-52
COMM/ASEL/IFR/HP-Complex/TW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441129#441129
Message 7
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| Subject: | Cleaning out the Hangar-- Yak prop-- M14P Mags--etc |
I have overhauled 2 bladed props for Yaks- can ship assembled or
unassembled.
Also, I have new and overhauled mags
Instruments also
Contact me off list if interested.
Thanks,
Kregg Victory
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
Yes, your scuba tank should have a regulator and proper PSI hosing, blah, blah.
You should also wear safety glasses and tuck in your tie if you used the suggested
lathe.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441133#441133
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
In my opinion, belittling efforts to inject some safety into the discussion at
hand makes no sense at all.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LawnDart
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 2:52 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
Yes, your scuba tank should have a regulator and proper PSI hosing, blah, blah.
You should also wear safety glasses and tuck in your tie if you used the suggested
lathe.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441133#441133
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
Mark,
You're absolutely right! That is very much my opinion too!
Sam Sax
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 3:18 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
In my opinion, belittling efforts to inject some safety into the discussion
at hand makes no sense at all.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LawnDart
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 2:52 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
Yes, your scuba tank should have a regulator and proper PSI hosing, blah,
blah. You should also wear safety glasses and tuck in your tie if you used
the suggested lathe.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441133#441133
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
Don't use any of those items then we won't have to listen to you.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Apr 22, 2015, at 11:52, "LawnDart" <propwash@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Yes, your scuba tank should have a regulator and proper PSI hosing, blah, blah.
You should also wear safety glasses and tuck in your tie if you used the suggested
lathe.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441133#441133
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
Crack a 4,400 psi scuba tank full open and let us know how it turns out.
Pressure and volume are two different animals if you're feeding in high
pressure air into the system faster than the pressure relief valve can dump
it. Just because your cockpit gauge doesn't show an over pressure state
doesn't mean you're not exceeding the pressure limits of the system
somewhere between the fill port and the regulator due to restrictions in
flow. A regulator on a tank dodges that bullet. Personally, when a topic
goes beyond my level of interest, I just don't read it. Other times I read
it to catch something new I didn't know or some of the vast amount of things
I've learned and forgotten. Thanks to all who are regular contributors who
answer the same questions over and over and over and over....... Some of
them were mine. : )
Mark Davis
N44YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 1:18 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
In my opinion, belittling efforts to inject some safety into the discussion
at hand makes no sense at all.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LawnDart
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 2:52 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
Yes, your scuba tank should have a regulator and proper PSI hosing, blah,
blah. You should also wear safety glasses and tuck in your tie if you used
the suggested lathe.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441133#441133
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
And mine. Right on.
Walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Sax
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 1:02 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
Mark,
You're absolutely right! That is very much my opinion too!
Sam Sax
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 3:18 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
In my opinion, belittling efforts to inject some safety into the discussion
at hand makes no sense at all.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LawnDart
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 2:52 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
Yes, your scuba tank should have a regulator and proper PSI hosing, blah,
blah. You should also wear safety glasses and tuck in your tie if you used
the suggested lathe.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441133#441133
Message 14
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| Subject: | WI Formation Clinic |
John Casper is on board for the weekend preceding OSH! We have 3 Yaks commi
tted. Would love to hear from the CJ crowd! Bring your L-29 and leave us al
l in the dust! Heck=2C bring your L-39 and make the locals think all that "
duck n' cover" training will finally be put to good use! Come on=2C people!
Step up - Summer goes by too quickly to just read about everyone ELSE havi
ng fun! This is for old hands and (especially!) NEWBES! It doesn't get lowe
r pressure than this! I WILL MAKE YOU LOOK REALLY GOOD! :)
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau=2C WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1966 Cessna 150F ^/---//-X
N8558G //Hangar #35 / AUW
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //Hangar #21 / AUW
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