Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:21 AM - Re: Re: Air Leak Advice (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 10:17 AM - Re: Re: Air Leak Advice (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
3. 10:20 AM - Re: Re: Air Leak Advice (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
4. 10:25 AM - Re: Re: Air Leak Advice (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
5. 10:43 AM - Re: Re: Air Leak Advice (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
6. 10:48 AM - Re: Re: Air Leak Advice (George S. Coy)
7. 11:00 AM - Re: Re: Air Leak Advice (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
8. 01:01 PM - Re: Re: Air Leak Advice (A. Dennis Savarese)
9. 01:53 PM - Re: Air Leak Advice (AcroGimp)
10. 02:20 PM - Re: Air Leak Advice (AcroGimp)
11. 03:39 PM - Re: Re: Air Leak Advice (Roger Kemp)
12. 03:57 PM - Re: Re: Air Leak Advice (Roger Kemp)
13. 06:45 PM - Re: Air Leak Advice (AcroGimp)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
I'm not sure why anyone would use any type of "gasket maker" on the
compressor to accessory case gasket because; 1- the studs the compressor
mounts to are vertical and protrude from the accessory caseand I don't
see how the gasket could slide off the studs when installing the
compressor since it is place on the accessory case, not on the
compressor. 2- If one truly needed to hold the gasket in place, then
use fuel lube (also called Easy Turn) very sparingly.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/ezturnlube.php?clickkey=9406
> EZ Turn is a specialty lubricant/sealant used for fuel and oil line
> valves & is resistant to high temps. Especially effective where high
> octane fuels and aromatics are present. EZ Turn is also extremely
> efficient as a gasket paste & anti- seize agent. EZ Turn will not gum,
> crack or dry out. Each shipment is independently tested. Excellent for
> tapered plug valves, aircraft engine manufacturing, and marine
> applications. EZ Turn is the functional equivalent of fuel lube. 1 Lb.
> can
The problem I personally would have with any type of gasket maker,
especially one that hardens, is if you ever have to remove the
compressor in the future, removing the gasket compound from the
accessory case surface could present a problem.
FWIW,
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 4/23/2015 9:58 PM, Roger Kemp wrote:
>
> Not sure what Apple auto correct was trying to say?? "The sealant does not activate
until it is heated."
> Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 23, 2015, at 9:38 PM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc@me.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Sorry Mark, your answers did not show up on my email chain until now. Yes the
gasket can be put on backwards but is pretty obvious if you fit the gasket to
the base of the compressor first with Permatex 51813 anaerobic gasket maker.
The alignment of the oil holes will be intuitive and the sealant does not for
until it is heated.
>> Doc
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Apr 23, 2015, at 9:22 PM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc@me.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Gimp,
>>> Which gasket are you referring to? The aluminum crush washer on the check valve
or the gasket on the accessory drive case. It is real tough to get the gasket
forming the oil seal on base of the compressor as it mates to the accessory
case wrong. I guess if you really worked hard at it one could though.
>>> Doc
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>> On Apr 23, 2015, at 12:27 PM, AcroGimp <jlknolla@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Checked the logs and compressor has 41 hrs of operation.
>>>>
>>>> I have had a reverse rotation/dieseling event I think twice in about 15-16
flights, both times only a couple of blades but still it did happen. Last occurrence
was flight prior to flight where everything pumped up correctly, so 3
flights ago.
>>>>
>>>> When I overhauled the snot valve side check valve it was very dirty, the fill
side was clean, so I am planning to overhaul PRV and snot valve during this
down cycle, as well as putting a serious clean on the little piston valve in
the coupler at the bottom of the compressor.
>>>>
>>>> Until I remove the old compressor I won't know if it is a shear shaft issue
or something else but I will absolutely check the compressor gasket for the
oil passage. Would you guys go back to the mech for compensation if the gasket
was installed incorrectly (asking, first airplane and all)?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the support and info...
>>>>
>>>> 'Gimp
>>>>
>>>> --------
>>>> Owner/Pilot N6209F 1987 Yak-52
>>>> COMM/ASEL/IFR/HP-Complex/TW
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441181#441181
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
Yes there one on the 50 Doc. Maybe not on YOURS, but on the three others I have
had experience with ... yes.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
Yes, for the 52 but not the 50.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 23, 2015, at 3:27 PM, AcroGimp <jlknolla@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Another question, is there supposed to be a cooling horn pointed at the compressor?
Current install has a cooling tube from the front of the engine side that
just ends facing aft near the motor mount and could have had something on
it direct cooling air at the compressor but nothing I can see for this right now.
>
> Just curious...
>
> 'Gimp
>
> --------
> Owner/Pilot N6209F 1987 Yak-52
> COMM/ASEL/IFR/HP-Complex/TW
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441186#441186
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
When you pull the complete assembly apart in order to install a new compressor,
there are two gaskets Doc. They are not the same.
I do not use any form of gasket maker on these items.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
Sorry Mark, your answers did not show up on my email chain until now. Yes the gasket
can be put on backwards but is pretty obvious if you fit the gasket to the
base of the compressor first with Permatex 51813 anaerobic gasket maker. The
alignment of the oil holes will be intuitive and the sealant does not for until
it is heated.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 23, 2015, at 9:22 PM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc@me.com> wrote:
>
>
> Gimp,
> Which gasket are you referring to? The aluminum crush washer on the check valve
or the gasket on the accessory drive case. It is real tough to get the gasket
forming the oil seal on base of the compressor as it mates to the accessory
case wrong. I guess if you really worked hard at it one could though.
> Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 23, 2015, at 12:27 PM, AcroGimp <jlknolla@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Checked the logs and compressor has 41 hrs of operation.
>>
>> I have had a reverse rotation/dieseling event I think twice in about 15-16 flights,
both times only a couple of blades but still it did happen. Last occurrence
was flight prior to flight where everything pumped up correctly, so 3 flights
ago.
>>
>> When I overhauled the snot valve side check valve it was very dirty, the fill
side was clean, so I am planning to overhaul PRV and snot valve during this
down cycle, as well as putting a serious clean on the little piston valve in the
coupler at the bottom of the compressor.
>>
>> Until I remove the old compressor I won't know if it is a shear shaft issue
or something else but I will absolutely check the compressor gasket for the oil
passage. Would you guys go back to the mech for compensation if the gasket
was installed incorrectly (asking, first airplane and all)?
>>
>> Thanks for the support and info...
>>
>> 'Gimp
>>
>> --------
>> Owner/Pilot N6209F 1987 Yak-52
>> COMM/ASEL/IFR/HP-Complex/TW
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441181#441181
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
Excuse the lack of grammar check.
Yes, there originally was one on the 50, and I own both a 74 and 84 model, both
with cooling horns. Also on the one I ferried out to Ramona some years back.
Pictures if you want.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 1:17 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
Yes there one on the 50 Doc. Maybe not on YOURS, but on the three others I have
had experience with ... yes.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
Yes, for the 52 but not the 50.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 23, 2015, at 3:27 PM, AcroGimp <jlknolla@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Another question, is there supposed to be a cooling horn pointed at the compressor?
Current install has a cooling tube from the front of the engine side that
just ends facing aft near the motor mount and could have had something on
it direct cooling air at the compressor but nothing I can see for this right now.
>
> Just curious...
>
> 'Gimp
>
> --------
> Owner/Pilot N6209F 1987 Yak-52
> COMM/ASEL/IFR/HP-Complex/TW
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441186#441186
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
To be specific, there is something called an ACCESSORY DRIVE. It connects to the
COMPRESSOR. It also connects to the ENGINE. There is a gasket in-between
the engine and the accessory drive stage and then another gasket between the
drive and the compressor itself. When you order a new compressor, it does not
come with an accessory drive piece attached.
Thus two gaskets. And they look very close to being identical, except one has
a hole for an oil passage. I am not talking about putting on a gasket backwards.
I was talking about two gaskets.
Gimp, 40 hours is a very short period of time. One of things you have to consider
is the shaft shear point, which is essentially two "rivet" looking things
that hold the two pieces together. It has already been mentioned that these
are the pieces that shear causing the compressor to no longer be driven. Some
people decide to save money and just replace these rivet things with whatever
they can find at Advance Auto. Clearly, if this shear coupling was not replaced
by a new one, or by one that came from a good overhaul facility (Jill or
Coy) then you have no idea what was put in there. Take a close look. See if
it looks like some home-brew repair.
The next issue is your engine reversal on shut-down. That is a very bad thing
and needs to be halted and folks should be talking to you about that as a number
one priority. The fact that this is what might (or probably) was what caused
this shear coupling to let go indicates there is some serious force involved
here. Another weak area in this engine design is the ACCESSORY SHAFT GEAR DRIVE.
If this darn thing manages to twist, the first indication will be your
timing changing on the engine. If it does get damaged, you are talking yanking
the whole engine out. So you need to get this reverse rotation on shut down
resolved. A couple of things that comes to mind are:
1. You're not running auto gas are you?
2. What kind of plugs and wires are you using?
3. Check the timing. Even though you are shutting the mags OFF, ought of whack
timing impacts plug temps which could cause a run-on.
4. Engine running rich at idle... a whole slew of things can cause that.
5. Valve Lash.
Are you letting the engine cool down before you shut it off? Dennis, I know you
have something to add here. You're better on the engine than I am, and so are
a number of other people.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 1:19 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
When you pull the complete assembly apart in order to install a new compressor,
there are two gaskets Doc. They are not the same.
I do not use any form of gasket maker on these items.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
Sorry Mark, your answers did not show up on my email chain until now. Yes the gasket
can be put on backwards but is pretty obvious if you fit the gasket to the
base of the compressor first with Permatex 51813 anaerobic gasket maker. The
alignment of the oil holes will be intuitive and the sealant does not for until
it is heated.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 23, 2015, at 9:22 PM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc@me.com> wrote:
>
>
> Gimp,
> Which gasket are you referring to? The aluminum crush washer on the check valve
or the gasket on the accessory drive case. It is real tough to get the gasket
forming the oil seal on base of the compressor as it mates to the accessory
case wrong. I guess if you really worked hard at it one could though.
> Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 23, 2015, at 12:27 PM, AcroGimp <jlknolla@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Checked the logs and compressor has 41 hrs of operation.
>>
>> I have had a reverse rotation/dieseling event I think twice in about 15-16 flights,
both times only a couple of blades but still it did happen. Last occurrence
was flight prior to flight where everything pumped up correctly, so 3 flights
ago.
>>
>> When I overhauled the snot valve side check valve it was very dirty, the fill
side was clean, so I am planning to overhaul PRV and snot valve during this
down cycle, as well as putting a serious clean on the little piston valve in the
coupler at the bottom of the compressor.
>>
>> Until I remove the old compressor I won't know if it is a shear shaft issue
or something else but I will absolutely check the compressor gasket for the oil
passage. Would you guys go back to the mech for compensation if the gasket
was installed incorrectly (asking, first airplane and all)?
>>
>> Thanks for the support and info...
>>
>> 'Gimp
>>
>> --------
>> Owner/Pilot N6209F 1987 Yak-52
>> COMM/ASEL/IFR/HP-Complex/TW
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441181#441181
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
And just to confuse things, we have in inventory an alternator drive for
those who do not use air compressors and want a backup alternator IFR.
George Coy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 1:43 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
To be specific, there is something called an ACCESSORY DRIVE. It connects
to the COMPRESSOR. It also connects to the ENGINE. There is a gasket
in-between the engine and the accessory drive stage and then another gasket
between the drive and the compressor itself. When you order a new
compressor, it does not come with an accessory drive piece attached.
Thus two gaskets. And they look very close to being identical, except one
has a hole for an oil passage. I am not talking about putting on a gasket
backwards. I was talking about two gaskets.
Gimp, 40 hours is a very short period of time. One of things you have to
consider is the shaft shear point, which is essentially two "rivet" looking
things that hold the two pieces together. It has already been mentioned
that these are the pieces that shear causing the compressor to no longer be
driven. Some people decide to save money and just replace these rivet
things with whatever they can find at Advance Auto. Clearly, if this shear
coupling was not replaced by a new one, or by one that came from a good
overhaul facility (Jill or Coy) then you have no idea what was put in there.
Take a close look. See if it looks like some home-brew repair.
The next issue is your engine reversal on shut-down. That is a very bad
thing and needs to be halted and folks should be talking to you about that
as a number one priority. The fact that this is what might (or probably)
was what caused this shear coupling to let go indicates there is some
serious force involved here. Another weak area in this engine design is the
ACCESSORY SHAFT GEAR DRIVE. If this darn thing manages to twist, the first
indication will be your timing changing on the engine. If it does get
damaged, you are talking yanking the whole engine out. So you need to get
this reverse rotation on shut down resolved. A couple of things that comes
to mind are:
1. You're not running auto gas are you?
2. What kind of plugs and wires are you using?
3. Check the timing. Even though you are shutting the mags OFF, ought of
whack timing impacts plug temps which could cause a run-on.
4. Engine running rich at idle... a whole slew of things can cause that.
5. Valve Lash.
Are you letting the engine cool down before you shut it off? Dennis, I know
you have something to add here. You're better on the engine than I am, and
so are a number of other people.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 1:19 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
When you pull the complete assembly apart in order to install a new
compressor, there are two gaskets Doc. They are not the same.
I do not use any form of gasket maker on these items.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
Sorry Mark, your answers did not show up on my email chain until now. Yes
the gasket can be put on backwards but is pretty obvious if you fit the
gasket to the base of the compressor first with Permatex 51813 anaerobic
gasket maker. The alignment of the oil holes will be intuitive and the
sealant does not for until it is heated.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 23, 2015, at 9:22 PM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc@me.com> wrote:
>
>
> Gimp,
> Which gasket are you referring to? The aluminum crush washer on the check
valve or the gasket on the accessory drive case. It is real tough to get the
gasket forming the oil seal on base of the compressor as it mates to the
accessory case wrong. I guess if you really worked hard at it one could
though.
> Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 23, 2015, at 12:27 PM, AcroGimp <jlknolla@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Checked the logs and compressor has 41 hrs of operation.
>>
>> I have had a reverse rotation/dieseling event I think twice in about
15-16 flights, both times only a couple of blades but still it did happen.
Last occurrence was flight prior to flight where everything pumped up
correctly, so 3 flights ago.
>>
>> When I overhauled the snot valve side check valve it was very dirty, the
fill side was clean, so I am planning to overhaul PRV and snot valve during
this down cycle, as well as putting a serious clean on the little piston
valve in the coupler at the bottom of the compressor.
>>
>> Until I remove the old compressor I won't know if it is a shear shaft
issue or something else but I will absolutely check the compressor gasket
for the oil passage. Would you guys go back to the mech for compensation if
the gasket was installed incorrectly (asking, first airplane and all)?
>>
>> Thanks for the support and info...
>>
>> 'Gimp
>>
>> --------
>> Owner/Pilot N6209F 1987 Yak-52
>> COMM/ASEL/IFR/HP-Complex/TW
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441181#441181
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 7
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|
| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
Cool.
George, what is the proper name of the piece between the engine itself and the
compressor drive assembly? Is it a mounting BLOCK, or just what? I called it
an accessory drive, which is not really correct. What is the name of that piece
can you tell me please?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George S. Coy
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 1:48 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
And just to confuse things, we have in inventory an alternator drive for those
who do not use air compressors and want a backup alternator IFR.
George Coy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 1:43 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
To be specific, there is something called an ACCESSORY DRIVE. It connects
to the COMPRESSOR. It also connects to the ENGINE. There is a gasket
in-between the engine and the accessory drive stage and then another gasket between
the drive and the compressor itself. When you order a new compressor, it
does not come with an accessory drive piece attached.
Thus two gaskets. And they look very close to being identical, except one
has a hole for an oil passage. I am not talking about putting on a gasket backwards.
I was talking about two gaskets.
Gimp, 40 hours is a very short period of time. One of things you have to
consider is the shaft shear point, which is essentially two "rivet" looking things
that hold the two pieces together. It has already been mentioned that these
are the pieces that shear causing the compressor to no longer be
driven. Some people decide to save money and just replace these rivet
things with whatever they can find at Advance Auto. Clearly, if this shear coupling
was not replaced by a new one, or by one that came from a good overhaul
facility (Jill or Coy) then you have no idea what was put in there.
Take a close look. See if it looks like some home-brew repair.
The next issue is your engine reversal on shut-down. That is a very bad thing
and needs to be halted and folks should be talking to you about that as a number
one priority. The fact that this is what might (or probably) was what caused
this shear coupling to let go indicates there is some serious force involved
here. Another weak area in this engine design is the ACCESSORY SHAFT GEAR DRIVE.
If this darn thing manages to twist, the first indication will be your
timing changing on the engine. If it does get damaged, you are talking yanking
the whole engine out. So you need to get
this reverse rotation on shut down resolved. A couple of things that comes
to mind are:
1. You're not running auto gas are you?
2. What kind of plugs and wires are you using?
3. Check the timing. Even though you are shutting the mags OFF, ought of whack
timing impacts plug temps which could cause a run-on.
4. Engine running rich at idle... a whole slew of things can cause that.
5. Valve Lash.
Are you letting the engine cool down before you shut it off? Dennis, I know you
have something to add here. You're better on the engine than I am, and so are
a number of other people.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 1:19 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
When you pull the complete assembly apart in order to install a new
compressor, there are two gaskets Doc. They are not the same.
I do not use any form of gasket maker on these items.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
Sorry Mark, your answers did not show up on my email chain until now. Yes the gasket
can be put on backwards but is pretty obvious if you fit the gasket to the
base of the compressor first with Permatex 51813 anaerobic gasket maker. The
alignment of the oil holes will be intuitive and the sealant does not for until
it is heated.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 23, 2015, at 9:22 PM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc@me.com> wrote:
>
>
> Gimp,
> Which gasket are you referring to? The aluminum crush washer on the
> check
valve or the gasket on the accessory drive case. It is real tough to get the gasket
forming the oil seal on base of the compressor as it mates to the accessory
case wrong. I guess if you really worked hard at it one could though.
> Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 23, 2015, at 12:27 PM, AcroGimp <jlknolla@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Checked the logs and compressor has 41 hrs of operation.
>>
>> I have had a reverse rotation/dieseling event I think twice in about
15-16 flights, both times only a couple of blades but still it did happen.
Last occurrence was flight prior to flight where everything pumped up correctly,
so 3 flights ago.
>>
>> When I overhauled the snot valve side check valve it was very dirty,
>> the
fill side was clean, so I am planning to overhaul PRV and snot valve during this
down cycle, as well as putting a serious clean on the little piston valve in
the coupler at the bottom of the compressor.
>>
>> Until I remove the old compressor I won't know if it is a shear shaft
issue or something else but I will absolutely check the compressor gasket for the
oil passage. Would you guys go back to the mech for compensation if the gasket
was installed incorrectly (asking, first airplane and all)?
>>
>> Thanks for the support and info...
>>
>> 'Gimp
>>
>> --------
>> Owner/Pilot N6209F 1987 Yak-52
>> COMM/ASEL/IFR/HP-Complex/TW
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441181#441181
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
Shear coupling.Dennis
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
To: "yak-list@matronics.com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 12:59 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
itterlich@navy.mil>
Cool.
George, what is the proper name of the piece between the engine itself and
the compressor drive assembly?=C2- Is it a mounting BLOCK, or just what?
=C2- I called it an accessory drive, which is not really correct.=C2- W
hat is the name of that piece can you tell me please?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@mat
ronics.com] On Behalf Of George S. Coy
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 1:48 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
And just to confuse things, we have in inventory an alternator drive for th
ose who do not use air compressors and want a backup alternator IFR.
George Coy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark
G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 1:43 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
To be specific, there is something called an ACCESSORY DRIVE.=C2- It conn
ects
to the COMPRESSOR.=C2- It also connects to the ENGINE.=C2- There is a g
asket
in-between the engine and the accessory drive stage and then another gasket
between the drive and the compressor itself.=C2- When you order a new co
mpressor, it does not come with an accessory drive piece attached.
Thus two gaskets.=C2- And they look very close to being identical, except
one
has a hole for an oil passage.=C2- I am not talking about putting on a ga
sket backwards.=C2- I was talking about two gaskets.
Gimp, 40 hours is a very short period of time.=C2- One of things you have
to
consider is the shaft shear point, which is essentially two "rivet"=C2- l
ooking things that hold the two pieces together.=C2- It has already been
mentioned that these are the pieces that shear causing the compressor to no
longer be
driven.=C2- Some people decide to save money and just replace these rivet
things with whatever they can find at Advance Auto.=C2- Clearly, if this
shear coupling was not replaced by a new one, or by one that came from a go
od overhaul facility (Jill or Coy) then you have no idea what was put in th
ere.
Take a close look.=C2- See if it looks like some home-brew repair.
The next issue is your engine reversal on shut-down.=C2- That is a very b
ad thing and needs to be halted and folks should be talking to you about th
at as a number one priority.=C2- The fact that this is what might (or pro
bably) was what caused this shear coupling to let go indicates there is som
e serious force involved here.=C2- Another weak area in this engine desig
n is the ACCESSORY SHAFT GEAR DRIVE.=C2- If this darn thing manages to tw
ist, the first indication will be your timing changing on the engine.=C2-
If it does get damaged, you are talking yanking the whole engine out.=C2
- So you need to get
this reverse rotation on shut down resolved.=C2- A couple of things that
comes
to mind are:
1.=C2- You're not running auto gas are you?
2.=C2- What kind of plugs and wires are you using?
3.=C2- Check the timing.=C2- Even though you are shutting the mags OFF,
ought of whack timing impacts plug temps which could cause a run-on.
4. Engine running rich at idle... a whole slew of things can cause that.
5.=C2- Valve Lash.
Are you letting the engine cool down before you shut it off?=C2- Dennis,
I know you have something to add here.=C2- You're better on the engine th
an I am, and so are a number of other people.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark
G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 1:19 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
When you pull the complete assembly apart in order to install a new
compressor, there are two gaskets Doc.=C2- They are not the same.
I do not use any form of gasket maker on these items.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
Sorry Mark, your answers did not show up on my email chain until now. Yes t
he gasket can be put on backwards but is pretty obvious if you fit the gask
et to the base of the compressor first with Permatex 51813 anaerobic gasket
maker. The alignment of the oil holes will be intuitive and the sealant do
es not for until it is heated.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 23, 2015, at 9:22 PM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc@me.com> wrote:
>
>
> Gimp,
> Which gasket are you referring to? The aluminum crush washer on the
> check
valve or the gasket on the accessory drive case. It is real tough to get th
e gasket forming the oil seal on base of the compressor as it mates to the
accessory case wrong. I guess if you really worked hard at it one could tho
ugh.
> Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 23, 2015, at 12:27 PM, AcroGimp <jlknolla@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Checked the logs and compressor has 41 hrs of operation.
>>
>> I have had a reverse rotation/dieseling event I think twice in about
15-16 flights, both times only a couple of blades but still it did happen.
Last occurrence was flight prior to flight where everything pumped up corre
ctly, so 3 flights ago.
>>
>> When I overhauled the snot valve side check valve it was very dirty,
>> the
fill side was clean, so I am planning to overhaul PRV and snot valve during
this down cycle, as well as putting a serious clean on the little piston v
alve in the coupler at the bottom of the compressor.
>>
>> Until I remove the old compressor I won't know if it is a shear shaft
issue or something else but I will absolutely check the compressor gasket f
or the oil passage.=C2- Would you guys go back to the mech for compensati
on if the gasket was installed incorrectly (asking, first airplane and all)
?
>>
>> Thanks for the support and info...
>>
>> 'Gimp
>>
>> --------
>> Owner/Pilot N6209F 1987 Yak-52
>> COMM/ASEL/IFR/HP-Complex/TW
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441181#441181
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
S -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
Mark, I'll get back to the kick-back issue shortly.
I have all 6 bolts off and the banjo disconnected but one of the guys has mentioned
recalling a sleeve or something between the compressor and the accessory
case that can drop down into the case.
We're breaking for lunch but want to go ahead and get this thing pulled today since
we are weathered out (yes, really, in San Diego, really).
Anything else we need be aware of when we go to pull it off?
Thanks in advance.
'Gimp
--------
Owner/Pilot N6209F 1987 Yak-52
COMM/ASEL/IFR/HP-Complex/TW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441252#441252
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m wrote:
>
>
> 1. You're not running auto gas are you?
> 2. What kind of plugs and wires are you using?
> 3. Check the timing. Even though you are shutting the mags OFF, ought of whack
timing impacts plug temps which could cause a run-on.
> 4. Engine running rich at idle... a whole slew of things can cause that.
> 5. Valve Lash.
>
> Are you letting the engine cool down before you shut it off? Dennis, I know
you have something to add here. You're better on the engine than I am, and so
are a number of other people.
>
> Mark
>
>
> --
1 - 100LL only
2 - Auto conversion
3 - Seems to be running fine but will check
4 - Will check
5 - Would need to check
Has not been overly hot on shutdown but I could pay more attention.
'Gimp
--------
Owner/Pilot N6209F 1987 Yak-52
COMM/ASEL/IFR/HP-Complex/TW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441255#441255
Message 11
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|
| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
Mark, Mine never had one. I am putting One from Doug on now. Dennis, the Permatex
anaerobic remains gummy like fuel lube. You can remove the gasket with it
if done carefully.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 24, 2015, at 12:16 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
wrote:
>
>
> Yes there one on the 50 Doc. Maybe not on YOURS, but on the three others I
have had experience with ... yes.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 10:25 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
>
>
> Yes, for the 52 but not the 50.
> Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 23, 2015, at 3:27 PM, AcroGimp <jlknolla@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Another question, is there supposed to be a cooling horn pointed at the compressor?
Current install has a cooling tube from the front of the engine side
that just ends facing aft near the motor mount and could have had something on
it direct cooling air at the compressor but nothing I can see for this right
now.
>>
>> Just curious...
>>
>> 'Gimp
>>
>> --------
>> Owner/Pilot N6209F 1987 Yak-52
>> COMM/ASEL/IFR/HP-Complex/TW
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441186#441186
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
Mark,
Copy. When I pulled mine it was the entire compressor from the drive shaft as it
mated to the accessory drive case. Have not pulled it apart otherwise but will
look at it tomorrow in that I have a complete compressor in my spares stock.
My parts catalog is in the cabinet in my hanger. I will look at it also.
By the way, my louvers are not even slotted (notched) for a trumpet to be mounted.
Mine is a 74 also. There is a hole in the baffles for air to pass through
though.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 24, 2015, at 5:39 PM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc@me.com> wrote:
>
>
> Mark, Mine never had one. I am putting One from Doug on now. Dennis, the Permatex
anaerobic remains gummy like fuel lube. You can remove the gasket with it
if done carefully.
> Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 24, 2015, at 12:16 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
wrote:
>>
>>
>> Yes there one on the 50 Doc. Maybe not on YOURS, but on the three others I
have had experience with ... yes.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 10:25 PM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Air Leak Advice
>>
>>
>> Yes, for the 52 but not the 50.
>> Doc
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Apr 23, 2015, at 3:27 PM, AcroGimp <jlknolla@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Another question, is there supposed to be a cooling horn pointed at the compressor?
Current install has a cooling tube from the front of the engine side
that just ends facing aft near the motor mount and could have had something on
it direct cooling air at the compressor but nothing I can see for this right
now.
>>>
>>> Just curious...
>>>
>>> 'Gimp
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Owner/Pilot N6209F 1987 Yak-52
>>> COMM/ASEL/IFR/HP-Complex/TW
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441186#441186
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: Air Leak Advice |
Got the compressor off, it was the shear plate. Verified compressor itself is
still healthy. Also verified gasket installed correctly and in great shape.
Will repair/replace the shear plate and get a cooling horn for the compressor then
re-install with new crush washers.
Next issue will be retime and check idle mix.
Thanks all for the support so far, especially the Yak Collection guys here in San
Diego for the assist.
More later.
'Gimp
--------
Owner/Pilot N6209F 1987 Yak-52
COMM/ASEL/IFR/HP-Complex/TW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=441269#441269
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