Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:01 AM - Re: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts. (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
2. 09:00 AM - Re: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts. (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
3. 09:11 AM - Re: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts. (Ernest Martinez)
4. 12:11 PM - WI Pre-OSH Formation Clinic (Rico Jaeger)
5. 01:49 PM - Re: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts. (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
6. 06:49 PM - Re: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts. (Roger Kemp)
7. 06:59 PM - Re: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts. (Roger Kemp)
8. 07:31 PM - Re: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts. (Walter Lannon)
9. 11:03 PM - Official Yak-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
10. 11:09 PM - Official Yak-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts. |
Well.. Doc, I think there might have been a misunderstanding somewhere along the
line. This is not a reasonable explanation.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.
As explained by the Lithuanian engineers the massive discharge with the heat induced
break down of the capacitor in the coil results in arcing in the distributor
cap so that discharge flows / jumps to the next cylinder in line on the intake
stroke. With the intake valve open when that aberrant discharge arrives
the spark will consume the supercharger contents. The backfire is most likely
through the carb when the charge is consumed.
The pilots of the aircraft in formation with me said they saw a sudden belch of
black smoke from under the chin of my bird. I felt the hesitation as well as
saw the momentary hesitation of the prop slowing. Then the engine picked back
up like nothing occurred. Have had that happen twice since owning my 52. Did
an airborne mag check the second time with the engine quitting on selection of
the #1 mag. In both cases changing the mag coils resolved the problem.
Litaurus and Termikus are the bearers of that tidbit of info. Made sense to me
then and now.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On May 31, 2015, at 3:38 AM, JL2A <info@flyingwarbirds.com.au> wrote:
>
>
> I'm with Egon, getting an engine anywhere near 200C on the ground is very hard
on them, let alone 250C. Without the proper cooling airflow wrapping around
the cylinders they are getting unevenly hot, with hotspots that may exceed the
temperature of where the thermocouple is placed.
>
> I've got to ask - what are we talking about lighting the whole supercharger 'charge'
on fire?
>
> Do they mean the spark is so advanced it lights off way early and the flame front
travels backwards through the induction system? Is this even physically at
anything above starting RPM?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442829#442829
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts. |
What should be keep in mind here is that Doc is actually talking about hear-say
information and that he is not an expert in this particular field. Medicine
yes. High voltage coil theory not necessarily.
A break down between the primary and secondary winding of a coil will never cause
a high voltage discharge. A break down occurs when the primary shorts to
the secondary. When this happens, the primary winding can no longer produce the
magnetic field that is necessary to induce the high voltage in the secondary.
So a break down in the coil being an explanation for this event is pretty
much out of the question. Once coil winding insulation breaks down there is
a pretty much a flash-over and the short circuit remains permanent. I.E. It
USUALLY stops working, it does not become intermittent. Realize that the failure
mode of these Mag Coils is common and has occurred multiple times across
platforms. So it is a USUAL failure mode and not a rare event.
Something you also need to be aware of Doc is that you are talking to a gentleman
who helped design and manufacture a replacement coil for the Russian design
and is intimately familiar with how it works. To a lesser degree, so am I.
I respect Jan's knowledge in this field and so should anyone else speaking to
him. He has been to all these places, he has been to Russia, he has talked face
to face with many engineers about the design of this particular part. I consider
anyone who has made replacement coils for this mag to be an expert.
Energy from the high voltage system in the magneto increasing to the point where
it "flashes" across to an adjacent point internal to the mag cap is also very
unlikely because of two things:
1. High energy goes to the path of least resistance. An air gap represents a
huge amount of resistance. It can happen, but not likely because of an INCREASE
in high voltage output, simply because there is no FAILURE mode that can cause
that. So flash over is not happening.
2. If it were to happen, there would be a carbon trail showing that it happened
in the cap. Inspection has proven that not to be the case.
Investigation of failed coils has been undertaken by a number of people, including
Jill and gang at M14P.com (as well as Jan Mevis). M14P's determination was
that in many cases the internal CAPACITOR in the coil had failed. One then
has to ask what that capacitor does, and what could be the by-product of it failing.
Anyone who has driven an older model car with a distributor, points, CAPACITOR
(also called a CONDENSOR) and rotor and external coil can pretty much understand
what is going on with a mag. The only difference is that the external high
voltage coil in a CAR has the primary driven by (usually) 12 Volts DC, whereas
a mag uses permanent magnets to generate a magnetic field instead of a battery
to produce the same effect in an autotransformer. This design feature allows
it to produce spark energy with no external power input, which is the whole
idea. The engine runs even with a total electrical failure. It is however
a limitation as well, as it is hard to match the new high energy designs found
in totals designs. Aircraft mags don't put out anything near what an MSD ignition
can, which is why I designed a method to put that exact system into these
aircraft and offered the idea to anyone who wanted to run with it. By the
way, Jan Mevis prototyped that installation design.
But we come back to the capacitor. Caps do have a failure mode where they can
change value over time and with heat. What does the cap do?
Quote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_system
The capacitor has two functions. Its main function is to form a series resonant
circuit with the ignition coil. During resonance, energy is repeatedly transferred
to the secondary side until the energy is exhausted.[2] As a result of this
resonance the duration of the spark is sustained and so implements a good
flame front in the air/fuel mixture. The capacitor, by default minimizes arcing
at the contacts at the point of opening. This reduces contact burning and maximizes
point life.
Unquote:
The real clue as to how it works is this statement: "Its main function is to form
a series resonant circuit with the ignition coil" If you understand "resonance"
in Alternating Current (AC) theory, the light bulb should come on about
now.
If anyone would like this email to become another page longer, we can discuss the
fact that with a failed condenser now the coil is instantly energized producing
a moving magnetic field, which induces energy into the secondary when the
points OPEN *AND* CLOSE. Although much weaker, it then would be possible to
get a plug to fire when it never was meant to fire. And that could cause bad
things to happen. As in "way too advanced" as I mentioned earlier in another
email (which is why I suspected this might be happening). This event would cause
the engine to lose a huge amount of power, all at once and would indeed cause
big puffs of black smoke out of the exhaust.
On a side note, igniting the fuel mixture in a Supercharger (usually called a Supercharger
Backfire) is a really REALLY bad thing. On race cars, this normally
causes the blower to literally be blown right off the top of the motor. Given
that our blowers are not running nearly that kind of pressure, it still would
be the kind of event that would get attention, with flames and smoke coming
back out of the carb. I do not think that is happening in the discussed event.
Mark
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.
Jan,
I personally do not know what is breaking down in the coil between the primary
and secondary windings that causes the aberrant high voltage discharge. I do not
know how the Russians build their secondary winding pies or how they insulate
them. Is it an internal resistor that fails, is it the waxed cardboard insulation
or the break down of the rubberized insulation that results in the current
leakage. Is it internal heat build up and air bubble expansion that allows
internal arching I do not know. I just know I was told there is a breakdown and
that results in an aberrant spark that causes an impressive internal backfire
with momentary engine pause that causes an eye opening experience.
I personally accepted what Litaurus and Termikus said because it made sense it
its simplified term. It is kind of like me telling a cancer patient suffering
from intractable pain that I can put a catheter in their subarachnoid space in
their spinal canal that infuses micro-milliliters of narcotic and local anesthetic
into the cerebrospinal fluid with the tip of the catheter over the dermatonal
segment that corresponds to their afferent pain input into level three
and seven of the Rexed Lamina in the posterior horn of the cord. Using that combination
we will be blocking nocioceptive and neuropathic pain.
All they care about is their pain going to be better controlled and they are not
going to be gorked on drugs in their last months or days. Litaurus's explanation
fits the simplified answer. All I wanted was does changing the coil out stop
the problem. It did in my case. I now have two spare coils sitting in my spares
cabinet.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On May 31, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc@me.com> wrote:
>
>
> As explained by the Lithuanian engineers the massive discharge with the heat
induced break down of the capacitor in the coil results in arcing in the distributor
cap so that discharge flows / jumps to the next cylinder in line on the
intake stroke. With the intake valve open when that aberrant discharge arrives
the spark will consume the supercharger contents. The backfire is most likely
through the carb when the charge is consumed.
> The pilots of the aircraft in formation with me said they saw a sudden belch
of black smoke from under the chin of my bird. I felt the hesitation as well
as saw the momentary hesitation of the prop slowing. Then the engine picked back
up like nothing occurred. Have had that happen twice since owning my 52. Did
an airborne mag check the second time with the engine quitting on selection
of the #1 mag. In both cases changing the mag coils resolved the problem.
> Litaurus and Termikus are the bearers of that tidbit of info. Made sense to me
then and now.
> Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On May 31, 2015, at 3:38 AM, JL2A <info@flyingwarbirds.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm with Egon, getting an engine anywhere near 200C on the ground is very hard
on them, let alone 250C. Without the proper cooling airflow wrapping around
the cylinders they are getting unevenly hot, with hotspots that may exceed the
temperature of where the thermocouple is placed.
>>
>> I've got to ask - what are we talking about lighting the whole supercharger
'charge' on fire?
>>
>> Do they mean the spark is so advanced it lights off way early and the flame
front travels backwards through the induction system? Is this even physically
at anything above starting RPM?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442829#442829
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts. |
> WRT the comment "A break down between the primary and secondary winding of
> a coil will never cause a high voltage discharge."
I'm not asking for another page of an explanation but....
If the primary of a transformer i.e. coil... is energized AND the primary
winding fails, i.e opens....then the field will collapse onto the secondary
and you WILL have a high voltage discharge.
I am not commenting on the rest of this thread, or the problem being
discussed herewith.
Ernie
Message 4
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| Subject: | WI Pre-OSH Formation Clinic |
Hi Guys
We are trying to crank up this event and are hoping for a solid turn out. (
Obviously) So far=2C we have 6 planes loosely committed. I would love to do
uble or even triple that. I realize I'm a "little fish" in the Redstar Sea
- but that doesn't diminish my passion=2C enthusiasm and respect for all th
at can be done to heighten the positive profile of the organization as well
as increase knowledge and safety awareness. I will do my very best to assi
st and accommodate any of you solely for the privilege of sharing airspace
with you. Suffice to say - no one who flies in will be forgotten as far as
food=2C shelter=2C good spirits and friendship.
I've spent my entire adult life dreaming of being a Warbird pilot. It was g
oing to happen by 25...then 35...then 45. Well=2C better late than never -
and still no less grateful. (Probably more so!) Flying my 150 into EAA for
the 1st time years ago was a big step for me. Bringing my -52 last year - a
nd parking in Warbirds=2C was another. Each year=2C I watch the gaggle of R
ed Stars pass over hallowed ground at OSH - 1st in impressive arrivals=2C t
hen in airshow formations. When I clap for them=2C I clap for "family." I w
atch the pilots taxi in to their parking spots behind the T-6's and climb o
ut grinning - maybe due to pride=2C but probably due to the unique honor of
doing something every young man dreams of - but few achieve. Flying at OSH
is akin to driving at Indy - at least in my eyes. Maybe someday I'll join
you in those big fly by's - maybe not. But at least know that I want to lea
rn. I want to improve. I want to be better than I am at this moment.
My Pop never saw me fly. I would trade 10 years of life just to have taken
him up once. So my flying is a tribute to the lifelong musician who's feet
never left the ground=2C from his son - who's feet never want to touch it..
.the man who pushed me to reach - no matter how "for out" that goal may be.
..never give up.
Whether this clinic happens or not - just know you have a friend and a fan
in WI. And thank you for the inspiration you have instilled by example...
Wausau=2C WI (AUW)July 15th - 18th
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau=2C WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1966 Cessna 150F ^/---//-X
N8558G //Hangar #35 / AUW
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //Hangar #21 / AUW
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts. |
The problem being discussed was focused on a primary to secondary short. Not
the primary failing open.
That said, yes... you are correct. If the points were closed, and the flux field
was at maximum, and then suddenly the primary opened, there would indeed be
a single spark discharge.
At that point, the coil primary would remain open, and that mag would then be totally
dead. High Voltage coil windings do not open and then fix themselves
and start working again.
The rest of the thread explained what component does exhibit those tendencies and
what such a failure would cause.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2015 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.
WRT the comment "A break down between the primary and secondary winding
of a coil will never cause a high voltage discharge."
I'm not asking for another page of an explanation but....
If the primary of a transformer i.e. coil... is energized AND the primary winding
fails, i.e opens....then the field will collapse onto the secondary and you
WILL have a high voltage discharge.
I am not commenting on the rest of this thread, or the problem being discussed
herewith.
Ernie
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts. |
Followed by the KaWhomp!
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 1, 2015, at 11:10 AM, Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>> WRT the comment "A break down between the primary and secondary winding o
f a coil will never cause a high voltage discharge."
>
> I'm not asking for another page of an explanation but....
>
> If the primary of a transformer i.e. coil... is energized AND the primary w
inding fails, i.e opens....then the field will collapse onto the secondary a
nd you WILL have a high voltage discharge.
>
> I am not commenting on the rest of this thread, or the problem being discu
ssed herewith.
>
> Ernie
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts. |
Thanks Mark.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 1, 2015, at 3:48 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
wrote:
>
>
> The problem being discussed was focused on a primary to secondary short. Not
the primary failing open.
>
> That said, yes... you are correct. If the points were closed, and the flux
field was at maximum, and then suddenly the primary opened, there would indeed
be a single spark discharge.
>
> At that point, the coil primary would remain open, and that mag would then be
totally dead. High Voltage coil windings do not open and then fix themselves
and start working again.
>
> The rest of the thread explained what component does exhibit those tendencies
and what such a failure would cause.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2015 12:11 PM
> To: yak-list
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts.
>
>
>
>
> WRT the comment "A break down between the primary and secondary winding
of a coil will never cause a high voltage discharge."
>
>
> I'm not asking for another page of an explanation but....
>
> If the primary of a transformer i.e. coil... is energized AND the primary winding
fails, i.e opens....then the field will collapse onto the secondary and you
WILL have a high voltage discharge.
>
> I am not commenting on the rest of this thread, or the problem being discussed
herewith.
>
> Ernie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops. starts. |
Mark;
I have been trying to get my head around this theory of a "massive
discharge" etc. but have been too busy of late to sit down and think it
through. So far it just doesn't compute.
I have had only one coil failure in forty years of playing with radial
engines. That was in a Harvard with Bosch mags. That mag simply quit
working, not intermittent, no bangs or whatever just simply and permanently
dead.
Right now dead tired and another full day tomorrow.
Cheers;
Walt
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2015 8:00 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops.
starts.
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Well.. Doc, I think there might have been a misunderstanding somewhere
along the line. This is not a reasonable explanation.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Engine roughness, as in stops. starts. stops.
starts.
As explained by the Lithuanian engineers the massive discharge with the heat
induced break down of the capacitor in the coil results in arcing in the
distributor cap so that discharge flows / jumps to the next cylinder in line
on the intake stroke. With the intake valve open when that aberrant
discharge arrives the spark will consume the supercharger contents. The
backfire is most likely through the carb when the charge is consumed.
The pilots of the aircraft in formation with me said they saw a sudden
belch of black smoke from under the chin of my bird. I felt the hesitation
as well as saw the momentary hesitation of the prop slowing. Then the engine
picked back up like nothing occurred. Have had that happen twice since
owning my 52. Did an airborne mag check the second time with the engine
quitting on selection of the #1 mag. In both cases changing the mag coils
resolved the problem.
Litaurus and Termikus are the bearers of that tidbit of info. Made sense to
me then and now.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On May 31, 2015, at 3:38 AM, JL2A <info@flyingwarbirds.com.au> wrote:
>
>
> I'm with Egon, getting an engine anywhere near 200C on the ground is very
> hard on them, let alone 250C. Without the proper cooling airflow wrapping
> around the cylinders they are getting unevenly hot, with hotspots that
> may exceed the temperature of where the thermocouple is placed.
>
> I've got to ask - what are we talking about lighting the whole
> supercharger 'charge' on fire?
>
> Do they mean the spark is so advanced it lights off way early and the
> flame front travels backwards through the induction system? Is this even
> physically at anything above starting RPM?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442829#442829
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Official Yak-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
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email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "yak-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Yak-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Yak-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/yak-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Yak-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Yak-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Yak-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Yak-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Yak-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Yak-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Yak-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Yak-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Yak-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Yak-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Yak-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Yak
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Yak-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Yak-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Yak-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Yak-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Yak-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Official Yak-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Yak-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Yak-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Yak-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Yak-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Yak-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Yak-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Yak-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Yak-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Other Matronics Email List Services
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