---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/06/15: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:42 AM - Re: Re: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD) 2. 09:16 AM - Re: Re: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge (doug sapp) 3. 09:21 AM - Re: More Newby Questions (Justin Drafts) 4. 09:44 AM - Re: More Newby Questions (doug sapp) 5. 09:46 AM - Re: More Newby Questions (Greg Wrobel) 6. 10:26 AM - Re: More Newby Questions (jblake207@comcast.net) 7. 08:21 PM - Re: More Newby Questions (Roger Kemp) 8. 08:24 PM - Re: More Newby Questions (Roger Kemp) 9. 09:11 PM - Re: More Newby Questions (Walter Lannon) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:30 AM PST US From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge All true, but now just swap the gages from front to rear and verify. Simple logic. Maybe a little bit of a pain but kind of proves it one way or the other. I totally concur that it could be the wiring, as Frank mentioned below. I do not concur that it is because solder crept up the wire ... when the wire is properly tinned, it should have solder creeping up the wire. I have never worked on the CJ, so I cannot say for sure but most Russian cannon plugs include a backs-shell to prevent exactly what he was talking about .... but the issue with the Russian wiring that I have seen is most likely due to the solder/flux combination that they used. Typically there is a solder fracture (as Frank also pointed out) right at the wire to pin joint or slightly behind it. I have seen corrosion in these areas (need a good magnifying glass to see it) and this points to the flux really. If you ever end up having to re-solder these areas, pick a high quality solder and not something you bought from the now defunct "Radio Shack". I recommend Kester solder which includes the flux in the core. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Stelwagon Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2015 6:14 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge --> Not necessarily the gauge. Carefully unscrew the backshells from the connectors (sender and gauge) and inspect the wiring, don't twist the wires,. It is not uncommon to find a wire broken at the terminal. When soldered they can become brittle if solder crept up the wire and vibration will break them. Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harv" Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2015 1:45 PM Subject: Yak-List: Re: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge > > Update > > I removed the access panels and established which oil pressure sender > gives signal to front and rear cockpits respectively. Cleaned and swapped > cannon plugs and the rear reads fine with the front still being at fault. > I assume from this then the front cockpit triplex gauge is defective. > > Does anyone have a good gauge for sale? > > Also what function does the blanked off tube pushed onto the sender > serve?? > > Thanks > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444403#444403 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:16:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge From: doug sapp If Frank's fix doesn't do the job, I have new and used gauges in stock. But I would first swap the gauges as Mark suggested. Please contact me off list if you find you need a replacement triplex gauge. Doug On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 8:39 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD < mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote: > mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> > > All true, but now just swap the gages from front to rear and verify. > > Simple logic. Maybe a little bit of a pain but kind of proves it one way > or the other. > > I totally concur that it could be the wiring, as Frank mentioned below. > I do not concur that it is because solder crept up the wire ... when the > wire is properly tinned, it should have solder creeping up the wire. I > have never worked on the CJ, so I cannot say for sure but most Russian > cannon plugs include a backs-shell to prevent exactly what he was talking > about .... but the issue with the Russian wiring that I have seen is most > likely due to the solder/flux combination that they used. Typically there > is a solder fracture (as Frank also pointed out) right at the wire to pin > joint or slightly behind it. I have seen corrosion in these areas (need a > good magnifying glass to see it) and this points to the flux really. If > you ever end up having to re-solder these areas, pick a high quality solder > and not something you bought from the now defunct "Radio Shack". I > recommend Kester solder which includes the flux in the core. > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Stelwagon > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2015 6:14 PM > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge > > --> > > Not necessarily the gauge. Carefully unscrew the backshells from the > connectors (sender and gauge) and inspect the wiring, don't twist the > wires,. It is not uncommon to find a wire broken at the terminal. When > soldered they can become brittle if solder crept up the wire and vibration > will break them. > > Frank > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Harv" > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2015 1:45 PM > Subject: Yak-List: Re: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge > > > > > > Update > > > > I removed the access panels and established which oil pressure sender > > gives signal to front and rear cockpits respectively. Cleaned and swapped > > cannon plugs and the rear reads fine with the front still being at fault. > > I assume from this then the front cockpit triplex gauge is defective. > > > > Does anyone have a good gauge for sale? > > > > Also what function does the blanked off tube pushed onto the sender > > serve?? > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444403#444403 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- *Doug* You have to make up your mind about growing up and becoming a pilot. You can't do both. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: More Newby Questions From: Justin Drafts Good morning Steve- I've always had great success installing my stock Chinese sparkplugs at 240 inch-pounds, making sure to use Champion sparkplug thread lube and a new copper gasket/washer (Aircraft Spruce has them)upon each final installation. Fyi, Justin, N280NC On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:49 PM, Steve Jones <727gs@db3broadband.com> wrote: > In my effort to get the family CJ flying, I have a couple more questions. > > > -What is the torque for the spark plugs? I pulled, cleaned and tested > them. Anyone know what the gap is supposed to be? > > -How much oil is supposed to be in it? I drained the tank, nosecase, > strainer, and oil cooler. > > -Someone mentioned flapper valves between the fuel tanks and the header > tank. The only valve like that I could find in my manuals was a check valve > in the fuselage forward of the wing leading edge. Is that something I > should remove and clean? > > -What is the issue about fuel useage between the wing tanks? I've heard > that mentioned a couple times. > > > Thanks in advance, > > Steve near Chicago > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: More Newby Questions From: doug sapp Steve, Absolutely no disrespect meant but your line of questions leads me to guess that your CJ is out of conditional (annual). If this is the fact I would highly recommend that you hire a competent CJ mechanic and look over his shoulder while he does the required inspection. He will have the knowledge and the proper tools to do the job. I honestly believe that doing this will save you money and heart ache (not to mention wallet ache) in the long run. Doug Sapp On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 8:49 PM, Steve Jones <727gs@db3broadband.com> wrote: > In my effort to get the family CJ flying, I have a couple more questions. > > > -What is the torque for the spark plugs? I pulled, cleaned and tested > them. Anyone know what the gap is supposed to be? > > -How much oil is supposed to be in it? I drained the tank, nosecase, > strainer, and oil cooler. > > -Someone mentioned flapper valves between the fuel tanks and the header > tank. The only valve like that I could find in my manuals was a check valve > in the fuselage forward of the wing leading edge. Is that something I > should remove and clean? > > -What is the issue about fuel useage between the wing tanks? I've heard > that mentioned a couple times. > > > Thanks in advance, > > Steve near Chicago > > * > > > * > > -- *Doug* You have to make up your mind about growing up and becoming a pilot. You can't do both. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: More Newby Questions From: Greg Wrobel The CJ has fuel vents in the wing tanks located right behind fuel cap as observed from leading edge of wing. If you top off tanks, or fly out of trim, occasionally only one tank will feed and you could run out of fuel with one tank completely full. In flight, check your left and right tanks to insure proper feeding. Remember you might have to fly for at least 30 minutes before the gages come off the peg. If one is not feeding, then fly with the high fuel tank.... HIGH! (cross control flying). Some of us have added additional fuel vents in fuel caps or a more elaborate cockpit controlled venting system. This venting problem or lack of symmetrical fuel feed is NOT uncommon on the CJ. P.S Find the fuel vent port on bottom of wings, take off fuel caps and blow into the underwing vent. You should hear the air coming out of the fuel tanks to insure there is no blockage in the vent system. On Jul 6, 2015 11:23 AM, "Justin Drafts" wrote: > Good morning Steve- > > I've always had great success installing my stock Chinese sparkplugs at > 240 inch-pounds, making sure to use Champion sparkplug thread lube and a > new copper gasket/washer (Aircraft Spruce has them)upon each final > installation. > > Fyi, > Justin, N280NC > > On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:49 PM, Steve Jones <727gs@db3broadband.com> > wrote: > >> In my effort to get the family CJ flying, I have a couple more questions. >> >> >> >> -What is the torque for the spark plugs? I pulled, cleaned and tested >> them. Anyone know what the gap is supposed to be? >> >> -How much oil is supposed to be in it? I drained the tank, nosecase, >> strainer, and oil cooler. >> >> -Someone mentioned flapper valves between the fuel tanks and the header >> tank. The only valve like that I could find in my manuals was a check valve >> in the fuselage forward of the wing leading edge. Is that something I >> should remove and clean? >> >> -What is the issue about fuel useage between the wing tanks? I've heard >> that mentioned a couple times. >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Steve near Chicago >> >> * >> >> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:26:06 AM PST US From: jblake207@comcast.net Subject: Re: Yak-List: More Newby Questions Greg's description of the CJ fuel feeding issue is exactly correct.=C2- H is remedy is also correct... simply cross control for a couple minutes and then usually they will each feed equally (or almost equally) throughout the remainder of the flight.=C2- It's a little annoying at first, but just o ne of those idiosyncrasies of the CJ that you slowly learn to love and acce pt.=C2- Sort of like your new bride leaving the toilet seat down. :-) The one thing I would add to Greg's post is that he mentioned the vent on t he belly...=C2- Located nearer to the left wing slightly forward.=C2- I f memory serves, there was a CJ that had an engine failure due to fuel star vation about 10 years ago... due to=C2-mud dobbers or some other type bug nesting in that vent.=C2- When I heard that I installed=C2-(wrapped) a small wire mesh screen over the vent opening just in case.=C2- So far, n o bugs and no vent=C2-blockage.=C2-You might consider doing the same. =C2- G'luck JB=C2- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Wrobel" Sent: Monday, July 6, 2015 11:43:59 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: More Newby Questions The CJ has fuel vents in the wing tanks located right behind fuel cap as ob served from leading edge of wing. If you top off tanks, or fly out of trim, occasionally only one tank will feed and you could run out of fuel with on e tank completely full. In flight, check your left and right tanks to insur e proper feeding.=C2- Remember you might have to fly for at least 30 minu tes before the gages come off the peg. If one is not feeding, then fly with the high fuel tank.... HIGH! (cross control flying). Some of us have added additional fuel vents in fuel caps or a more elaborate cockpit controlled venting system. This venting problem or lack of symmetrical fuel feed is NO T uncommon on the CJ. P.S Find the fuel vent port on bottom of wings, take off fuel caps and blow int o the underwing vent. You should hear the air coming out of the fuel tanks to insure there is no blockage in the vent system. On Jul 6, 2015 11:23 AM, "Justin Drafts" < draftsjust417@gmail.com > wrote: Good morning Steve- I've always had great success installing my stock Chinese sparkplugs at 240 inch-pounds, making sure to use Champion sparkplug thread lube and a new c opper gasket/washer (Aircraft Spruce has them)upon each final installation. Fyi, Justin, N280NC On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:49 PM, Steve Jones < 727gs@db3broadband.com > wrot e:
In my effort to get the family CJ flying, I have a couple more questions. =C2- -What is the torque for the spark plugs? I pulled, cleaned and tested them. Anyone know what the gap is supposed to be? -How much oil is supposed to be in it? I drained the tank, nosecase, strain er, and oil cooler. -Someone mentioned flapper valves between the fuel tanks and the header tan k. The only valve like that I could find in my manuals was a check valve in the fuselage forward of the wing leading edge. Is that something I should remove and clean? -What is the issue about fuel useage between the wing tanks? I've heard tha t mentioned a couple times. =C2- Thanks in advance, Steve near Chicago et="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List tp:// forums.mat ronics.com _blank"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List tp://forums.matro nics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=== ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: More Newby Questions From: Roger Kemp 25 ft lbs. Doc Sent from my iPad > On Jul 6, 2015, at 11:18 AM, Justin Drafts wrote : > > Good morning Steve- > > I've always had great success installing my stock Chinese sparkplugs at 24 0 inch-pounds, making sure to use Champion sparkplug thread lube and a new c opper gasket/washer (Aircraft Spruce has them)upon each final installation. > > Fyi, > Justin, N280NC > >> On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:49 PM, Steve Jones <727gs@db3broadband.com> wrot e: >> In my effort to get the family CJ flying, I have a couple more questions. >> >> >> >> -What is the torque for the spark plugs? I pulled, cleaned and tested the m. Anyone know what the gap is supposed to be? >> >> -How much oil is supposed to be in it? I drained the tank, nosecase, stra iner, and oil cooler. >> >> -Someone mentioned flapper valves between the fuel tanks and the header t ank. The only valve like that I could find in my manuals was a check valve i n the fuselage forward of the wing leading edge. Is that something I should r emove and clean? >> >> -What is the issue about fuel useage between the wing tanks? I've heard t hat mentioned a couple times. >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Steve near Chicago >> >> >> >> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: More Newby Questions From: Roger Kemp Oops, sorry that was for the M14. Would assume the CJ would be similar. Doc Sent from my iPad > On Jul 6, 2015, at 11:18 AM, Justin Drafts wrote : > > Good morning Steve- > > I've always had great success installing my stock Chinese sparkplugs at 24 0 inch-pounds, making sure to use Champion sparkplug thread lube and a new c opper gasket/washer (Aircraft Spruce has them)upon each final installation. > > Fyi, > Justin, N280NC > >> On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:49 PM, Steve Jones <727gs@db3broadband.com> wrot e: >> In my effort to get the family CJ flying, I have a couple more questions. >> >> >> >> -What is the torque for the spark plugs? I pulled, cleaned and tested the m. Anyone know what the gap is supposed to be? >> >> -How much oil is supposed to be in it? I drained the tank, nosecase, stra iner, and oil cooler. >> >> -Someone mentioned flapper valves between the fuel tanks and the header t ank. The only valve like that I could find in my manuals was a check valve i n the fuselage forward of the wing leading edge. Is that something I should r emove and clean? >> >> -What is the issue about fuel useage between the wing tanks? I've heard t hat mentioned a couple times. >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Steve near Chicago >> >> >> >> et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:46 PM PST US From: "Walter Lannon" Subject: Re: Yak-List: More Newby Questions The generally accepted torque range for 14 mm spark plugs is 20 to 25 lb./ft. or 240 =93300 lb./in. Anything above 25/300 is likely to cause excessive stretching, insulator cracking and plug failure. Walt From: Roger Kemp Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 8:18 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: More Newby Questions 25 ft lbs. Doc Sent from my iPad On Jul 6, 2015, at 11:18 AM, Justin Drafts wrote: Good morning Steve- I've always had great success installing my stock Chinese sparkplugs at 240 inch-pounds, making sure to use Champion sparkplug thread lube and a new copper gasket/washer (Aircraft Spruce has them)upon each final installation. Fyi, Justin, N280NC On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:49 PM, Steve Jones <727gs@db3broadband.com> wrote: In my effort to get the family CJ flying, I have a couple more questions. -What is the torque for the spark plugs? I pulled, cleaned and tested them. Anyone know what the gap is supposed to be? -How much oil is supposed to be in it? I drained the tank, nosecase, strainer, and oil cooler. -Someone mentioned flapper valves between the fuel tanks and the header tank. The only valve like that I could find in my manuals was a check valve in the fuselage forward of the wing leading edge. Is that something I should remove and clean? -What is the issue about fuel useage between the wing tanks? I've heard that mentioned a couple times. Thanks in advance, Steve near Chicago et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D //forums.matronics.com D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.