---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 07/21/15: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:55 AM - Re: Sticky valve? (A. Dennis Savarese) 2. 06:27 AM - Re: Sticky valve? (Roger Kemp) 3. 06:47 AM - More Newby Questions (Stephen Jones) 4. 06:53 AM - Re: More Newby Questions (Richard Hess) 5. 06:54 AM - Re: Osh2015 (727gs@db3broadband.com) 6. 07:48 AM - Re: Housai engine and M-14P parts wanted (ADRIAN HALE) 7. 10:35 AM - Re: Osh2015 (cjpilot710) 8. 03:28 PM - YAK-50 landing gear actuators overhaul time. (Gordon Price) 9. 06:47 PM - Re: YAK-50 landing gear actuators overhaul time. (A. Dennis Savarese) 10. 07:06 PM - Re: YAK-50 landing gear actuators overhaul time. (Gordon Price) 11. 08:00 PM - Romanian IAR-823 (Frank) 12. 11:11 PM - Re: YAK-50 landing gear actuators overhaul time. (Jan Mevis) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:55:18 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Sticky valve? When was the last time the gear actuators and diverter valves were overhaul ed? What may be happening is the air pressure from the DOWN side of the act uator is going by the seals in the actuator and out the UP side which goes back to the gear selector.Dennis From: JL2A To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 11:18 PM Subject: Yak-List: Sticky valve? On a cold morning if the gear lever is selected down and main air turned on it hisses out the selector for a while then stops. This morning it just di dn't stop, figuring I have a sticky one way valve somewhere (what I get for following manufacturers castor oil recommendation I suspect) Anyone got a tip best place to start looking? For a CJ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445005#445005 S - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:13 AM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: Sticky valve? From: Roger Kemp Yep. Dennis is right. Doc Sent from my iPad > On Jul 21, 2015, at 6:49 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote: > > When was the last time the gear actuators and diverter valves were overhau led? What may be happening is the air pressure from the DOWN side of the act uator is going by the seals in the actuator and out the UP side which goes b ack to the gear selector. > Dennis > > From: JL2A > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 11:18 PM > Subject: Yak-List: Sticky valve? > > > On a cold morning if the gear lever is selected down and main air turned o n it hisses out the selector for a while then stops. This morning it just di dn't stop, figuring I have a sticky one way valve somewhere (what I get for f ollowing manufacturers castor oil recommendation I suspect) > > Anyone got a tip best place to start looking? For a CJ > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.ronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List" targe t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/N - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - http > > > > > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:35 AM PST US From: Stephen Jones <727gs@att.net> Subject: Yak-List: More Newby Questions I have a couple more quick questions. First off, is there going to be a Cj/Yak Forum at OSH? Second, is there anyone around that might be interested in checking me out in their CJ? Of course I'd cover any costs and expenses. I'd like to be ready to go when our airplane comes out of its condition inspection and it's been several years since I flew one. In fact, I'll be at OSH all week and then some. Anyone available up there? Thanks for your time, Steve Jones N76187 Near Chicago ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:38 AM PST US From: Richard Hess Subject: Re: Yak-List: More Newby Questions Steve I have access to both a standard CJ and one with an M14P. You can reach me o ff list. Richard Hess C 404-964-4885 > On Jul 21, 2015, at 9:44 AM, Stephen Jones <727gs@att.net> wrote: > > > I have a couple more quick questions. > > First off, is there going to be a Cj/Yak Forum at OSH? > > Second, is there anyone around that might be interested in checking me out in their CJ? Of course I'd cover any costs and expenses. I'd like to be rea dy to go when our airplane comes out of its condition inspection and it's be en several years since I flew one. > In fact, I'll be at OSH all week and then some. Anyone available up there? > > Thanks for your time, > Steve Jones > N76187 > Near Chicago > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:39 AM PST US From: 727gs@db3broadband.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Osh2015 Where is the RPA tent? Steve On 2015-07-19 06:21, Russ wrote: > > I'll be at OSH on Thursday. > See you at the RPA tent > > Russ 'Bull' > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:38 AM PST US From: ADRIAN HALE Subject: Re: Yak-List: Housai engine and M-14P parts wanted Would you consider an AI14R, It has one hour since first overhaul. A.A. Hale Tulsa Okla. USA On Jul 15, 2015, at 3:00 AM, Jay McIntyre wrote: > Hi all... > I am in the market for a good 285HP Housai. > All offers will be considered but ideally the engine will be 1st or second life. > It will need to be shipped to New Zealand. > > Also in the market for a serviceable M-14P accessory section. We don't require magnetos and so forth, just an otherwise complete section. > > Please contact me off line at cjaviator@gmail.com > > Regards, Jay > New Zealand > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:35:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: Osh2015 From: cjpilot710 SnVzdCBub3J0aCBvZiB0aGUgV2FyIGJpcmQgYnJpZWZpbmcgYnVpbGRpbmcuIMKgQmVoaW5kIHRo ZSBiaWcgUlZzLgoKClNlbnQgdmlhIHRoZSBTYW1zdW5nIEdBTEFYWSBTwq40LCBhbiBBVCZUIDRH IExURSBzbWFydHBob25lCgo8ZGl2Pi0tLS0tLS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIG1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0tLS08 L2Rpdj48ZGl2PkZyb206IDcyN2dzQGRiM2Jyb2FkYmFuZC5jb20gPC9kaXY+PGRpdj5EYXRlOjA3 LzIxLzIwMTUgIDA4OjUxICAoR01ULTA2OjAwKSA8L2Rpdj48ZGl2PlRvOiB5YWstbGlzdEBtYXRy b25pY3MuY29tIDwvZGl2PjxkaXY+Q2M6ICA8L2Rpdj48ZGl2PlN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBZYWstTGlz dDogT3NoMjAxNSA8L2Rpdj48ZGl2Pgo8L2Rpdj4tLT4gWWFrLUxpc3QgbWVzc2FnZSBwb3N0ZWQg Ynk6IDcyN2dzQGRiM2Jyb2FkYmFuZC5jb20KCldoZXJlIGlzIHRoZSBSUEEgdGVudD8KClN0ZXZl CgpPbiAyMDE1LTA3LTE5IDA2OjIxLCBSdXNzIHdyb3RlOgo+IC0tPiBZYWstTGlzdCBtZXNzYWdl IHBvc3RlZCBieTogUnVzcyA8ZHVuY2FuMTU3NEBnbWFpbC5jb20+Cj4gCj4gSSdsbCBiZSBhdCBP U0ggb24gVGh1cnNkYXkuCj4gU2VlIHlvdSBhdCB0aGUgUlBBIHRlbnQKPiAKPiBSdXNzICdCdWxs Jwo+IAoKXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgIC0gVGhlIFlhay1MaXN0IEVtYWlsIEZvcnVtIC0KXy09 IFVzZSB0aGUgTWF0cm9uaWNzIExpc3QgRmVhdHVyZXMgTmF2aWdhdG9yIHRvIGJyb3dzZQpfLT0g dGhlIG1hbnkgTGlzdCB1dGlsaXRpZXMgc3VjaCBhcyBMaXN0IFVuL1N1YnNjcmlwdGlvbiwKXy09 IEFyY2hpdmUgU2VhcmNoICYgRG93bmxvYWQsIDctRGF5IEJyb3dzZSwgQ2hhdCwgRkFRLApfLT0g UGhvdG9zaGFyZSwgYW5kIG11Y2ggbXVjaCBtb3JlOgpfLT0KXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cu bWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0b3I/WWFrLUxpc3QKXy09Cl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09Cl8tPSAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgIC0gTUFUUk9OSUNTIFdFQiBGT1JVTVMgLQpfLT0gU2FtZSBncmVhdCBjb250ZW50IGFsc28g YXZhaWxhYmxlIHZpYSB0aGUgV2ViIEZvcnVtcyEKXy09Cl8tPSAgIC0tPiBodHRwOi8vZm9ydW1z Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20KXy09Cl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09Cl8tPSAgICAgICAgICAgICAtIExpc3QgQ29udHJpYnV0 aW9uIFdlYiBTaXRlIC0KXy09ICBUaGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHlvdXIgZ2VuZXJvdXMgc3VwcG9ydCEK Xy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLU1hdHQgRHJhbGxlLCBMaXN0IEFkbWlu LgpfLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbgpfLT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQoK Cgo ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:28:01 PM PST US From: Gordon Price Subject: Yak-List: YAK-50 landing gear actuators overhaul time. It is time to share an adrenaline moment and some good luck in my YAK 50. As part of my airshow routine I do a final pass with the landing gear down. I put the gear down below 150 kph. I did not get a green light on the right side. The light tested OK. I asked the airboss if the gear was down.yes it was. It was the end of the routine and I had a 10 minute flight back to Owen Sound airport. Wondering about this, should I leave them, should I retract them, I decided to retract them. At the airport I put the gear down, got 2 green lights and landed uneventfully. We checked the gear visually and the micro switches. That is when we found out they we wired backwards, but they were working fine. Left means right. I guess they were facing backwards during installation. A puzzle. I flew the air show the next day and all was routine. except the weather. The following week I flew another short demo flight, put the gear down and no right green light. Since I had good luck last time retracting and extending I did the same. No green light on the right side again, meaning it was a downlock problem on the left gear. The light out checked OK. The air pressure was now just under 3. The emergency system was 5.5. The ground confirmed both gear were down. Should I use the emergency system? I thought long and fast since there was not a lot of fuel available and it was a very busy airport scene. I had sufficient air pressure to extend the gear with the main system gear. Why then use an alternate air system? To me, it was a downlock problem. Would the extra pressure help that? I was not sure. So I decided to try and jar the gear into the locked position first. I got the speed back to about 110 kph getting the nose up and angle gear forward, then bounced the left gear on the runway ready for an immediate go-around. I heard a snap caught the green light out of the corner of my eye and landed with 2 green lights. Ground observers confirmed the left wheel moved back about an inch or two, then snapped forward. I called Dennis, as I always do when I have a problem, and as usual, he had the solution. Pull the actuators and send them to Jill at M14P Inc. So we did. We got the actuators back and finally got them installed. Not an easy job. The gear swing is certainly a lot more violent now. It was a good thing that we had one person holding each wing tip down on the jacks during the swing. We havent bothered to rewire them yet and I have not flown the airplane yet. I spoke to Jill and the first thing she said was You dodged a bullet. Apparently, during the initial test, they blew the end off the left actuator with only 300psi. I am so glad I did not use the emergency system and ram in all 850 psi. If the end had blown off in the air what a mess. Jill put on the last remaining new actuator cap and they are looking for more supply. So that is my story. Comments criticisms are most welcome. That is the way we all learn. I dont have all the answers but I sure had some good luck this time. And yes we will be removing the actuators in 5 years for another overhaul. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:15 PM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK-50 landing gear actuators overhaul time. From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Gordon, it's not necessary to rewire the gear lights. Simply unscrew the lamp holder knurled nuts, slide the lamp holders back thru the instrument panel and swap their positions. Dennis Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 21, 2015, at 5:24 PM, Gordon Price wrote: > > > It is time to share an adrenaline moment and some good luck in my YAK 50. > > As part of my airshow routine I do a final pass with the landing gear down. I put the gear down below 150 kph. I did not get a green light on the right side. The light tested OK. I asked the airboss if the gear was down.yes it was. It was the end of the routine and I had a 10 minute flight back to Owen Sound airport. Wondering about this, should I leave them, should I retract them, I decided to retract them. At the airport I put the gear down, got 2 green lights and landed uneventfully. > > We checked the gear visually and the micro switches. That is when we found out they we wired backwards, but they were working fine. Left means right. I guess they were facing backwards during installation. A puzzle. > > I flew the air show the next day and all was routine. except the weather. > > The following week I flew another short demo flight, put the gear down and no right green light. Since I had good luck last time retracting and extending I did the same. No green light on the right side again, meaning it was a downlock problem on the left gear. The light out checked OK. The air pressure was now just under 3. The emergency system was 5.5. The ground confirmed both gear were down. > > Should I use the emergency system? I thought long and fast since there was not a lot of fuel available and it was a very busy airport scene. I had sufficient air pressure to extend the gear with the main system gear. Why then use an alternate air system? To me, it was a downlock problem. Would the extra pressure help that? I was not sure. So I decided to try and jar the gear into the locked position first. > > I got the speed back to about 110 kph getting the nose up and angle gear forward, then bounced the left gear on the runway ready for an immediate go-around. I heard a snap caught the green light out of the corner of my eye and landed with 2 green lights. Ground observers confirmed the left wheel moved back about an inch or two, then snapped forward. > > I called Dennis, as I always do when I have a problem, and as usual, he had the solution. Pull the actuators and send them to Jill at M14P Inc. So we did. > > We got the actuators back and finally got them installed. Not an easy job. The gear swing is certainly a lot more violent now. It was a good thing that we had one person holding each wing tip down on the jacks during the swing. We havent bothered to rewire them yet and I have not flown the airplane yet. > > I spoke to Jill and the first thing she said was You dodged a bullet. > > Apparently, during the initial test, they blew the end off the left actuator with only 300psi. > > I am so glad I did not use the emergency system and ram in all 850 psi. If the end had blown off in the air what a mess. > > Jill put on the last remaining new actuator cap and they are looking for more supply. > > So that is my story. Comments criticisms are most welcome. That is the way we all learn. > > I dont have all the answers but I sure had some good luck this time. > > And yes we will be removing the actuators in 5 years for another overhaul. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:01 PM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK-50 landing gear actuators overhaul time. From: Gordon Price Why is it that I cant think of something so simple! Thanks Dennis > On Jul 21, 2015, at 9:42 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote: > > > Gordon, it's not necessary to rewire the gear lights. Simply unscrew the lamp holder knurled nuts, slide the lamp holders back thru the instrument panel and swap their positions. Dennis > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 21, 2015, at 5:24 PM, Gordon Price wrote: >> >> >> It is time to share an adrenaline moment and some good luck in my YAK 50. >> >> As part of my airshow routine I do a final pass with the landing gear down. I put the gear down below 150 kph. I did not get a green light on the right side. The light tested OK. I asked the airboss if the gear was down.yes it was. It was the end of the routine and I had a 10 minute flight back to Owen Sound airport. Wondering about this, should I leave them, should I retract them, I decided to retract them. At the airport I put the gear down, got 2 green lights and landed uneventfully. >> >> We checked the gear visually and the micro switches. That is when we found out they we wired backwards, but they were working fine. Left means right. I guess they were facing backwards during installation. A puzzle. >> >> I flew the air show the next day and all was routine. except the weather. >> >> The following week I flew another short demo flight, put the gear down and no right green light. Since I had good luck last time retracting and extending I did the same. No green light on the right side again, meaning it was a downlock problem on the left gear. The light out checked OK. The air pressure was now just under 3. The emergency system was 5.5. The ground confirmed both gear were down. >> >> Should I use the emergency system? I thought long and fast since there was not a lot of fuel available and it was a very busy airport scene. I had sufficient air pressure to extend the gear with the main system gear. Why then use an alternate air system? To me, it was a downlock problem. Would the extra pressure help that? I was not sure. So I decided to try and jar the gear into the locked position first. >> >> I got the speed back to about 110 kph getting the nose up and angle gear forward, then bounced the left gear on the runway ready for an immediate go-around. I heard a snap caught the green light out of the corner of my eye and landed with 2 green lights. Ground observers confirmed the left wheel moved back about an inch or two, then snapped forward. >> >> I called Dennis, as I always do when I have a problem, and as usual, he had the solution. Pull the actuators and send them to Jill at M14P Inc. So we did. >> >> We got the actuators back and finally got them installed. Not an easy job. The gear swing is certainly a lot more violent now. It was a good thing that we had one person holding each wing tip down on the jacks during the swing. We havent bothered to rewire them yet and I have not flown the airplane yet. >> >> I spoke to Jill and the first thing she said was You dodged a bullet. >> >> Apparently, during the initial test, they blew the end off the left actuator with only 300psi. >> >> I am so glad I did not use the emergency system and ram in all 850 psi. If the end had blown off in the air what a mess. >> >> Jill put on the last remaining new actuator cap and they are looking for more supply. >> >> So that is my story. Comments criticisms are most welcome. That is the way we all learn. >> >> I dont have all the answers but I sure had some good luck this time. >> >> And yes we will be removing the actuators in 5 years for another overhaul. >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:31 PM PST US From: Frank Subject: Yak-List: Romanian IAR-823 I am selling my IAR823. It is a Romanian airforce trainer. 4 place, stick controls, and it's aerobatic. 160 hrs on lycoming IO540. Call me off list Frank Surfas 530-622-4462 Located in northern ca. Sent from my iPad ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:43 PM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK-50 landing gear actuators overhaul time. From: Jan Mevis Hi Gordon, I always listen carefully when the gear extends. You can hear (or feel) the locking so I don't rely only upon the green lights. These Yak 50 actuators are one of the issues where the 50 is very different compared to the Yak 52. IMHO the system has been improved on the 52. The 52 has a separate small locking actuator. On the 50, the whole actuator moves for locking and unlocking. Tuning this is not so easy. The original Russian maintenance manual (DOSAAF 1979) says that you may only have three complete swings using the emergency bottle. After that, a complete overhaul of the landing gear is imperative. I had to use it once when the main pressure feed line collapsed (between the snot bottle and the cross). The full unrestricted blow of the emergency bottle is indeed impressive. BR, Jan (Yak 50 F-AZUK). On 22/07/15 04:01, "Gordon Price" wrote: > >Why is it that I cant think of something so simple! > >Thanks Dennis > >> On Jul 21, 2015, at 9:42 PM, A. Dennis Savarese >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Gordon, it's not necessary to rewire the gear lights. Simply unscrew >>the lamp holder knurled nuts, slide the lamp holders back thru the >>instrument panel and swap their positions. Dennis >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jul 21, 2015, at 5:24 PM, Gordon Price wrote: >>> >>> >>> It is time to share an adrenaline moment and some good luck in my YAK >>>50. >>> >>> As part of my airshow routine I do a final pass with the landing gear >>>down. I put the gear down below 150 kph. I did not get a green light >>>on the right side. The light tested OK. I asked the airboss if the >>>gear was down.yes it was. It was the end of the routine and I had a >>>10 minute flight back to Owen Sound airport. Wondering about this, >>>should I leave them, should I retract them, I decided to retract them. >>>At the airport I put the gear down, got 2 green lights and landed >>>uneventfully. >>> >>> We checked the gear visually and the micro switches. That is when we >>>found out they we wired backwards, but they were working fine. Left >>>means right. I guess they were facing backwards during installation. A >>>puzzle. >>> >>> I flew the air show the next day and all was routine. except the >>>weather. >>> >>> The following week I flew another short demo flight, put the gear down >>>and no right green light. Since I had good luck last time retracting >>>and extending I did the same. No green light on the right side again, >>>meaning it was a downlock problem on the left gear. The light out >>>checked OK. The air pressure was now just under 3. The emergency >>>system was 5.5. The ground confirmed both gear were down. >>> >>> Should I use the emergency system? I thought long and fast since >>>there was not a lot of fuel available and it was a very busy airport >>>scene. I had sufficient air pressure to extend the gear with the main >>>system gear. Why then use an alternate air system? To me, it was a >>>downlock problem. Would the extra pressure help that? I was not sure. >>>So I decided to try and jar the gear into the locked position first. >>> >>> I got the speed back to about 110 kph getting the nose up and angle >>>gear forward, then bounced the left gear on the runway ready for an >>>immediate go-around. I heard a snap caught the green light out of >>>the corner of my eye and landed with 2 green lights. Ground observers >>>confirmed the left wheel moved back about an inch or two, then snapped >>>forward. >>> >>> I called Dennis, as I always do when I have a problem, and as usual, >>>he had the solution. Pull the actuators and send them to Jill at M14P >>>Inc. So we did. >>> >>> We got the actuators back and finally got them installed. Not an easy >>>job. The gear swing is certainly a lot more violent now. It was a good >>>thing that we had one person holding each wing tip down on the jacks >>>during the swing. We havent bothered to rewire them yet and I have >>>not flown the airplane yet. >>> >>> I spoke to Jill and the first thing she said was You dodged a >>>bullet. >>> >>> Apparently, during the initial test, they blew the end off the left >>>actuator with only 300psi. >>> >>> I am so glad I did not use the emergency system and ram in all 850 >>>psi. If the end had blown off in the air what a mess. >>> >>> Jill put on the last remaining new actuator cap and they are looking >>>for more supply. >>> >>> So that is my story. Comments criticisms are most welcome. That is >>>the way we all learn. >>> >>> I dont have all the answers but I sure had some good luck this time. >>> >>> And yes we will be removing the actuators in 5 years for another >>>overhaul. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.