---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 10/24/15: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:02 AM - Breaking Action! (James Bancroft) 2. 03:15 AM - Re: Breaking Action! (Keith Pickford) 3. 06:22 AM - Re: Breaking Action! (jay-dub) 4. 09:38 AM - Re: Re: Breaking Action! (cjpilot710@aol.com) 5. 11:10 AM - Re: Re: Breaking Action! (Rico Jaeger) 6. 01:36 PM - Yak 55M vs Yak 55 (Jay Hodge) 7. 02:52 PM - Re: Breaking Action! (Jon Blake) 8. 03:48 PM - Re: Breaking Action! (Vic) 9. 04:11 PM - Re: Yak 55M vs Yak 55 (Epistaxis) 10. 05:16 PM - Re: Breaking Action! (Roger Kemp) 11. 05:16 PM - Re: Breaking Action! (Roger Kemp) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:02:31 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Breaking Action! From: James Bancroft Good morning all As a new Yak-52 chap, I'd very much appreciate some advice. When landing on grass, what's the best breaking technique to achieve the shortest landing distance......a constant squeeze, on and off application, something else? Also appreciate how you adjust you technique for wet grass. I'm thinking short grass runways in Enlandshire ;-) Cheers James. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:15:56 AM PST US From: Keith Pickford Subject: Re: Yak-List: Breaking Action! Start with a low tail landing for best aerodynamic breaking and then on and off squeezes on the brakes.A constant hold on the brakes can cause the whe els to lock up. =C2-(Just my thoughts) On Saturday, 24 October 2015 9:10 PM, James Bancroft wrote: om> Good morning all As a new Yak-52 chap, I'd very much appreciate some advice.=C2- When land ing on grass, what's the best breaking technique to achieve the shortest la nding distance......a constant squeeze, on and off application, something e lse?=C2- Also appreciate how you adjust you technique for wet grass. I'm thinking short grass runways in Enlandshire ;-) Cheers James. S - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:47 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: Breaking Action! From: "jay-dub" They let anyone onto this site these days! [Wink] If you really need to get it stopped, one big application will pull you up in a very short distance, although as with any other aircraft be cautious about locking a wheel. You'll have nothing left afterwards to taxi with though until they've cooled so plan to use the minimum you can. On grass, it slows down reasonably well of its own accord. -------- CJ and Yak-52 owner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448240#448240 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:38:28 AM PST US From: cjpilot710@aol.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Breaking Action! James, (good name BTW) With all aircraft stopping distance is very depend of initial energy at touch down. So the slower you are the shorter the distance. If you are stable, with no wind OR turbulence, a power on approach 10 kts above normal stall, will get you into 1,500' field over a 50' obstacle. Aim for a spot as close to the approach end of the runway as you can. After landing immediately close the throttle to idle and apply brake pressure until you feel the airplane decelerating then judge how much braking you'll need with what left in the landing distance. Keep the nose high after touch down until you run out of elevator control. One of my neighbor lands his SA16 Grumman Albatross on our 3200' grass strip and never uses more than 1,500' of it. Of course his approach speed is even higher. With airlines we use to apply a "wind component" to the published threshold speed for our weight. We would take 1/2 of the steady wind speed and add it to the threshold speed. Say the steady wind was 15kts, - we would add 7kts to our approach speed. If we had a gusty wind condition, say something 15kts gusts to 20kts, we would add the FULL gust component on top on the steady wind component. thus our finial approach speed would be X=Vth+7+5. I use this for my CJ still. Grass runways are forgiving and the same time traitorous. You can away with some side loads on touch down that you never would on a runway, particularly if its wet. At the same time, you could have the brakes locked and you might as well be on ice. Turning at a high taxi speeds on wet grass is asking for a real surprise when you try to turn that sucker with differential brakes. One the tires slide, and two the nose wheel will just slide across the grass. So departing a grass runway you want to keep your speed down and not be in a hurry. Grass is easy on tires. If you operate off grass strip as normal course, you'll find your tires will last though a lot more landings and takeoffs. Hard runways of course take off little bit of rubber all time even taxing. If you lock up the brakes on a hard runway you WILL have flat spot on your tires right than and there. A CJ pilot friend blew a tire by landing to fast on an unfamiliar hard surface runway that was over 3,000 feet long. On a grass strip, you'll get away with it. ASMOF you may end up damaging the grass strip. The length of the grass will make a HUGE difference in your landing and take off performance. Long grass will help you stop much sooner. You can guess what it will do to take off performance, which to me is the most dangerous scenario. Be comfortable and aware of your airplane at slow speeds. That means some practice a lot of 'slow flight' regimens with gear and flaps down. Most pilot get Yaks for the acro - all high speed and yanking and banking. Yet each flight need to land at a slow speed. No? Jim "Pappy" Goolsby In a message dated 10/24/2015 9:23:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, flyjnw@gmail.com writes: --> Yak-List message posted by: "jay-dub" They let anyone onto this site these days! [Wink] If you really need to get it stopped, one big application will pull you up in a very short distance, although as with any other aircraft be cautious about locking a wheel. You'll have nothing left afterwards to taxi with though until they've cooled so plan to use the minimum you can. On grass, it slows down reasonably well of its own accord. -------- CJ and Yak-52 owner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448240#448240 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:10:47 AM PST US From: Rico Jaeger Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Breaking Action! It was a cold, windy WI day 2 weeks ago...with several Red Stars already recovered, about-faced and idling - watching my approach, and one very capable check pilot in my back seat, I did my 1st grass landing in a Yak. The unfamiliarity of the strip and nasty crosswind caused beads of sweat and a pucker factor that was almost unbearable, and yet - it turned out to be a non-issue! On pavement, I will typically burn 2500' or so on rollout. So my concern over 2000' feet of grass was justified. But I actually had to add power to continue my rollout to get to the end and make room for the last guy landing. I'm now excitedly anticipating my next grass landing. Very smooth feel as the Yak 52 truly felt like it was in its element... Best of luck and remember to "wiggle your toes" as John Casper would say! :) ________________________________________ From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of jay-dub Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 8:19 AM Subject: Yak-List: Re: Breaking Action! They let anyone onto this site these days! [Wink] If you really need to get it stopped, one big application will pull you up in a very short distance, although as with any other aircraft be cautious about locking a wheel. You'll have nothing left afterwards to taxi with though until they've cooled so plan to use the minimum you can. On grass, it slows down reasonably well of its own accord. -------- CJ and Yak-52 owner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448240#448240 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:36:15 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Yak 55M vs Yak 55 From: "Jay Hodge" Hey Guys, For those of you who have flown both the 55 and the 55M, what are the differences? I've flown a M a number of times, but never had the opportunity to fly a straight 55. Thanks, Jay Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448248#448248 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:12 PM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: Breaking Action! From: Jon Blake QmVzdCBicmFraW5nIHByb2NlZHVyZSBvbiBncmFzcyBpbiBhbnkgYWlycGxhbmUgaXMgcHVtcGlu ZyBoZXIgZ2VudGx5IHVudGlsIHNoZSBzdG9wcy4uLiAKClNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBWZXJpem9uIFdp cmVsZXNzIDRHIExURSBEUk9JRAoKSmFtZXMgQmFuY3JvZnQgPGphbWVzYmFuY3JvZnRAYnRpbnRl cm5ldC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgoKPi0tPiBZYWstTGlzdCBtZXNzYWdlIHBvc3RlZCBieTogSmFtZXMg QmFuY3JvZnQgPGphbWVzYmFuY3JvZnRAYnRpbnRlcm5ldC5jb20+Cj4KPkdvb2QgbW9ybmluZyBh bGwKPgo+QXMgYSBuZXcgWWFrLTUyIGNoYXAsIEknZCB2ZXJ5IG11Y2ggYXBwcmVjaWF0ZSBzb21l IGFkdmljZS4gIFdoZW4gbGFuZGluZyBvbiBncmFzcywgd2hhdCdzIHRoZSBiZXN0IGJyZWFraW5n IHRlY2huaXF1ZSB0byBhY2hpZXZlIHRoZSBzaG9ydGVzdCBsYW5kaW5nIGRpc3RhbmNlLi4uLi4u YSBjb25zdGFudCBzcXVlZXplLCBvbiBhbmQgb2ZmIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uLCBzb21ldGhpbmcgZWxz ZT8gIEFsc28gYXBwcmVjaWF0ZSBob3cgeW91IGFkanVzdCB5b3UgdGVjaG5pcXVlIGZvciB3ZXQg Z3Jhc3MuCj4KPkknbSB0aGlua2luZyBzaG9ydCBncmFzcyBydW53YXlzIGluIEVubGFuZHNoaXJl IDstKQo+Cj5DaGVlcnMKPgo+SmFtZXMuCj4KPl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09Cj5fLT0gICAgICAgICAgLSBUaGUgWWFr LUxpc3QgRW1haWwgRm9ydW0gLQo+Xy09IFVzZSB0aGUgTWF0cm9uaWNzIExpc3QgRmVhdHVyZXMg TmF2aWdhdG9yIHRvIGJyb3dzZQo+Xy09IHRoZSBtYW55IExpc3QgdXRpbGl0aWVzIHN1Y2ggYXMg TGlzdCBVbi9TdWJzY3JpcHRpb24sCj5fLT0gQXJjaGl2ZSBTZWFyY2ggJiBEb3dubG9hZCwgNy1E YXkgQnJvd3NlLCBDaGF0LCBGQVEsCj5fLT0gUGhvdG9zaGFyZSwgYW5kIG11Y2ggbXVjaCBtb3Jl Ogo+Xy09Cj5fLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9ZYWst TGlzdAo+Xy09Cj5fLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQo+Xy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLSBNQVRST05JQ1MgV0VCIEZPUlVN UyAtCj5fLT0gU2FtZSBncmVhdCBjb250ZW50IGFsc28gYXZhaWxhYmxlIHZpYSB0aGUgV2ViIEZv cnVtcyEKPl8tPQo+Xy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQo+Xy09Cj5f LT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PQo+Xy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgIC0gTGlzdCBDb250cmlidXRpb24gV2ViIFNpdGUgLQo+Xy09 ICBUaGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHlvdXIgZ2VuZXJvdXMgc3VwcG9ydCEKPl8tPSAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIC1NYXR0IERyYWxsZSwgTGlzdCBBZG1pbi4KPl8tPSAgIC0tPiBodHRw Oi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0aW9uCj5fLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQo+Cj4KPgo ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:48:18 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: Breaking Action! From: "Vic" My advice would be NOT to brake right after touch down but let first drop the speed to below 80 kph . This way you can use wind and roll resistance for deceleration when it is most effective. Only then use the brakes for stopping, otherwise you may end up with no brakes for steering on shorter strips after you have heated them up by braking too early. Remember drum brakes , no discs ! Vic Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448252#448252 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:04 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak 55M vs Yak 55 From: "Epistaxis" Jay: The wing is shorter on the 55M = better roll rate/ the 55= better rate of climb... There are some minor systems changes as well. That's the simple explanation..... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=448253#448253 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: Breaking Action! From: Roger Kemp Hold the nose off after touchdown to aero brake. Stay off the brakes until y ou are ready to turn off the runway. RU drum brakes notoriously overheat lea ving you with brake fad if you heat them up with frequent braking for roll o ut. You will find yourself doing the emergency procedure for no brakes. Mags off and you are along for the ride. I hate form taxi where lead feels they n eed to look good for the crowd by doing a slow taxi. Heats my brakes up ever y time. Doc Sent from my iPad > On Oct 24, 2015, at 4:48 PM, Jon Blake wrote: > > Best braking procedure on grass in any airplane is pumping her gently unti l she stops... > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID > > > James Bancroft wrote: > om> > > Good morning all > > As a new Yak-52 chap, I'd very much appreciate some advice. When landing o n grass, what's the best breaking technique to achieve the shortest landing d istance......a constant squeeze, on and off application, something else? Al so appreciate how you adjust you technique for wet grass. > > I'm thinking short grass runways in Enlandshire ;-) > > Cheers > > James. > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > > > ky=C2=B7=C3=A8=C5=BE=C3=9B"=C3=8D=C3=AD=C5=93=C2=A2Z+=C3=93M4=C3=93G=C3=9A q=C3=A7(=C2=BA=C2=B8=C5=BE=C2=AEw=C2=B0r=B9=C2=AB=B0=C3=C3=93 =C3=1A=C2=90=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B4I=C5=A1=C5-Qh=C2=AE=C3=A9=9D =C2=B1=C3=ABax=C3=86=C2=AD=C2=AE=B0=C3=A2r=C3=82=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=91^j=C3 =9B=C2=ABz=C3=83Z=C2=BE(=1A=C2=B6=C5-=C3=AD=C2=A1=C2=BA=C3=A8=C3=82=C3=87=C2 =AD=C3=A9=C5=A1=C5=B8"=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=9B=C2=AD=C5-X=C2=AD=B0 =C3=AB,=C2=B9=C3=88Z=C2=B0=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B5I=C3J=C3=C3=ACr=C2=B8=C2=A9 =C2=B6*'=02=C2=B7!=C5-=C3=B7=99y=C2=C3=9C=9E:0=C5=BEZ=1Aw=C2 =B0=C3=9A=C3=88=1A=C3=A8=C3=82=C3=87=9A=C2=ABE=01=03=C3=A1=C2 =A2=C3=9A,=C2=C3=9Ejwf=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=A2=C2=B7=C5=A1 -=C2=B7=C5=B8-=C3=9Bi=C3=C3=BC0=C3=82f=C2=AD=C2=AE=B0 =C3=A2r=C3=87(=BA=C3=B3Z=C2=BE(=1A=C2=B6=C5-=C3=98jB=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=98 m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3=C3=83=0C&j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',r=B0=C25=C2=AB=C3 =A2=C2=81=C2=ABh=C2=AD-=C2=A4.+-=C3=BD=C2=A3M=13=C2=8D $=93=10 =11NEC=12I=C2=A9=C5=BE=9A=C2=B7=C5=A1=C2=B5=C3=8A'=C2=B5=C3=A9=C3=ADj[ (j=C3=B6=C2=A2=A2=C2=C3=A5z=C3=B8=C5=A1=C2=B6=17=93y=C2=B1h=C2 =AE=C3=A9=C2=ACj=1A=C3=9E~=1Bm=C2=A7=C3=C3=9F=C2=A2=C2=BB=C2=C2=B2f=C2 =AD=C2=AE=B0=C3=A2r=C3=87(=C5=A1=1Bm=C2=A7=C3=C3=9F=C2=A2=C2=BB=C2 =C2=B2f=C2=AD=C2=AE=B0=C3=A2r=C3=87(=BA=C3=B6=B9=C5-=C3=8B B=C2=A2{k=B0=C2=BB=C2=AD=C5-=B0=C3'y=C2=B4=C2=A2=C2=B5=C3=A4 =C3=A1jy2=C2=A2=C3=A7=C3=A8=C2=AF*.=C2=AE=07=C2=A7z=C2=BA.=C2=B2=C3=8B=C2=A9 =C2=C5-=C3=AD1=C2=ABm=0E=C2=B6=C2=A5=A2=C3=A2=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=90=1D =C5=A1)=C3=9A-=C2=B7=C5=B8-=C3=9Bi=C3=C3=BC0=C3=82f=C2=AD =C2=AE=B0=C3=A2r=C3=87(=BA=C3=B7(=C5=BE=C3=9A=C3=A2n=C3=ABb=C2=A2 xm=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3=C3=83=0C&j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',r=B0=C2r=B0 =C3=AD=C2=AE&=C3=AE=C2=B6*'=C3=BD=C2=AF=C3=9B=C3=BD=C3=BA'=C2=B7=C3=BAk{=C3=B6 =C3=A8w/=C3=A1=C2=B6i ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: Breaking Action! From: Roger Kemp Long down hill taxi's will do it too. Doc Sent from my iPad > On Oct 24, 2015, at 4:48 PM, Jon Blake wrote: > > Best braking procedure on grass in any airplane is pumping her gently unti l she stops... > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID > > > James Bancroft wrote: > om> > > Good morning all > > As a new Yak-52 chap, I'd very much appreciate some advice. When landing o n grass, what's the best breaking technique to achieve the shortest landing d istance......a constant squeeze, on and off application, something else? Al so appreciate how you adjust you technique for wet grass. > > I'm thinking short grass runways in Enlandshire ;-) > > Cheers > > James. > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > > > ky=C2=B7=C3=A8=C5=BE=C3=9B"=C3=8D=C3=AD=C5=93=C2=A2Z+=C3=93M4=C3=93G=C3=9A q=C3=A7(=C2=BA=C2=B8=C5=BE=C2=AEw=C2=B0r=B9=C2=AB=B0=C3=C3=93 =C3=1A=C2=90=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B4I=C5=A1=C5-Qh=C2=AE=C3=A9=9D =C2=B1=C3=ABax=C3=86=C2=AD=C2=AE=B0=C3=A2r=C3=82=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=91^j=C3 =9B=C2=ABz=C3=83Z=C2=BE(=1A=C2=B6=C5-=C3=AD=C2=A1=C2=BA=C3=A8=C3=82=C3=87=C2 =AD=C3=A9=C5=A1=C5=B8"=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=9B=C2=AD=C5-X=C2=AD=B0 =C3=AB,=C2=B9=C3=88Z=C2=B0=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B5I=C3J=C3=C3=ACr=C2=B8=C2=A9 =C2=B6*'=02=C2=B7!=C5-=C3=B7=99y=C2=C3=9C=9E:0=C5=BEZ=1Aw=C2 =B0=C3=9A=C3=88=1A=C3=A8=C3=82=C3=87=9A=C2=ABE=01=03=C3=A1=C2 =A2=C3=9A,=C2=C3=9Ejwf=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=A2=C2=B7=C5=A1 -=C2=B7=C5=B8-=C3=9Bi=C3=C3=BC0=C3=82f=C2=AD=C2=AE=B0 =C3=A2r=C3=87(=BA=C3=B3Z=C2=BE(=1A=C2=B6=C5-=C3=98jB=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=98 m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3=C3=83=0C&j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',r=B0=C25=C2=AB=C3 =A2=C2=81=C2=ABh=C2=AD-=C2=A4.+-=C3=BD=C2=A3M=13=C2=8D $=93=10 =11NEC=12I=C2=A9=C5=BE=9A=C2=B7=C5=A1=C2=B5=C3=8A'=C2=B5=C3=A9=C3=ADj[ (j=C3=B6=C2=A2=A2=C2=C3=A5z=C3=B8=C5=A1=C2=B6=17=93y=C2=B1h=C2 =AE=C3=A9=C2=ACj=1A=C3=9E~=1Bm=C2=A7=C3=C3=9F=C2=A2=C2=BB=C2=C2=B2f=C2 =AD=C2=AE=B0=C3=A2r=C3=87(=C5=A1=1Bm=C2=A7=C3=C3=9F=C2=A2=C2=BB=C2 =C2=B2f=C2=AD=C2=AE=B0=C3=A2r=C3=87(=BA=C3=B6=B9=C5-=C3=8B B=C2=A2{k=B0=C2=BB=C2=AD=C5-=B0=C3'y=C2=B4=C2=A2=C2=B5=C3=A4 =C3=A1jy2=C2=A2=C3=A7=C3=A8=C2=AF*.=C2=AE=07=C2=A7z=C2=BA.=C2=B2=C3=8B=C2=A9 =C2=C5-=C3=AD1=C2=ABm=0E=C2=B6=C2=A5=A2=C3=A2=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=90=1D =C5=A1)=C3=9A-=C2=B7=C5=B8-=C3=9Bi=C3=C3=BC0=C3=82f=C2=AD =C2=AE=B0=C3=A2r=C3=87(=BA=C3=B7(=C5=BE=C3=9A=C3=A2n=C3=ABb=C2=A2 xm=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3=C3=83=0C&j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',r=B0=C2r=B0 =C3=AD=C2=AE&=C3=AE=C2=B6*'=C3=BD=C2=AF=C3=9B=C3=BD=C3=BA'=C2=B7=C3=BAk{=C3=B6 =C3=A8w/=C3=A1=C2=B6i ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.