---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 12/26/15: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:20 AM - Re: Yak Tailwheel and tires FS (dcrogers11) 2. 08:38 AM - Re: First time buyer of a Yak 52 or Nanchang CJ-6 (skyjockey) 3. 09:38 AM - Re: Re: First time buyer of a Yak 52 or Nanchang CJ-6 (Bill Geipel) 4. 12:18 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: First time buyer of a Yak 52 or Nanchang CJ-6 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD) 5. 01:11 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: First time buyer of a Yak 52 or Nanchang CJ-6 (DaBear@damned.org) 6. 04:15 PM - Re: First time buyer of a Yak 52 or Nanchang CJ-6 (skyjockey) 7. 05:46 PM - Re: Re: First time buyer of a Yak 52 or Nanchang CJ-6 (Doug Zeissner) 8. 08:09 PM - Re: Housai SS exhaust system for sale (Stephen Jones) 9. 08:48 PM - Re: First time buyer of a Yak 52 or Nanchang CJ-6 (AcroGimp) 10. 09:50 PM - Re: First time buyer of a Yak 52 or Nanchang CJ-6 (skyjockey) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:09 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak Tailwheel and tires FS From: "dcrogers11" Sold! Thanks Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451415#451415 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:50 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: First time buyer of a Yak 52 or Nanchang CJ-6 From: "skyjockey" I need to fly in a CJ6 and T34 to make the decision! -------- warbird and lover of all things that go fast and upside down! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451416#451416 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:38:18 AM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: First time buyer of a Yak 52 or Nanchang CJ-6 From: Bill Geipel T-34 = No Aerobatics Big price No upside down Faster Target not so many Just a Bonanza CJ6 = Aerobatics 1/2 price Upside down Not so much Fighter Lots of fun folks and fly-ins Not just an airplane Yak = Best aerobatics 1/4 price Better upside down Not so much Best fighter Ditto Not just a CJ6 What are you trying to decide? On Dec 26, 2015, at 9:35, skyjockey wrote: > > I need to fly in a CJ6 and T34 to make the decision! > > -------- > warbird and lover of all things that go fast and upside down! > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451416#451416 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:18:07 PM PST US From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Re: First time buyer of a Yak 52 or Nanchang CJ-6 Having 900 hours in a T-34B, and 1000 or so in a YAK-50 (but none in a CJ-6 I am sad to report), I will say this. The T-34 has much more room, has a fairly high Vne, and uses all American parts (thus they are available), but they are not cheap, the FAA is keeping a close eye on them after a wing off light came on during that incident where some idiots were teaching dog-fighting skills to wanna-be's in airframes with many many thousands of hours on them yanking well over the max G limit of +6/-4 (at the time). That required one of several different kinds of spar mods and inspections. They are EASY to fly, have 3 axis trim and with 50 gallons have a decent range. The controls are balanced well, and include anti-servo's on the control surfaces. Many have engines upgraded to 520 or 550's with 3 bladed props. Needed, because with the stock 470, they were pretty much a dog at 2950 pounds gross. They will do aerobatics, but they do not maintain energy (when stock), and you have to constantly be aware of your degrading energy state. Many rudders have been sorta bent by folks doing snaps at too high an entry speed, and a lot of them have magnesium control surfaces, which need to be hawked carefully for corrosion. Some of have been re-skinned to aluminum. By the way, inverted flight in a T-34 is limited to something like 15 seconds. They use a dry sump engine and a 3 gallon oil tank. The oil is not returned to the tank when inverted and if you are not careful and roll upright after too long inverted without reducing to idle, you can actually do amazing things to the prop... like have it come off. The landing gear is tough, hard to hurt, and will take huge amounts of punishment. I saw one landed in a plowed field with no damage. They are extremely stable for formation flying and have excellent vis. Basically the T-34 will always be my most favorite airplane to own, overall....but that comes at a pretty darn steep price. I'd say the aerobatic capability of the CJ is in the same ball-park as the T-34. Cockpits are MUCH smaller, but can be modified. Both are trainers and had the same goals in mind, so their design features are on a par with each other. The CJ-6 is by FAR the more beautiful aircraft, and MUCH cheaper to own, and ... hey, it's got a radial! Like the T-34, the CJ is also somewhat underpowered, but is a stable formation platform. But to continue ... there are the YAK's and also the SU-29 if you have money. The SU-29 beats them all in my opinion. Again, small cockpits, but has range and will rip your lips off. It is the Ferrari of two seaters until you get to heavy iron and it does better aerobatics than anything else discussed. The YAK-52 has slightly bigger cockpits than the CJ, but less fuel. Slower than the CJ-6, but with comparable pilots will eat the CJ-6 alive in a dog fight, simply because it has more energy and is designed for it. It is a tractor of a Russian airplane. Has some spin characteristics that need to be experienced with an instructor, but not anything dangerous once you learn what's up. It was built to be an advanced trainer, meaning advanced aerobatics. It will even do tumbles. So if you ever think of getting serious about aerobatics, or dog-fighting, etc., etc., the YAK-52 is really the best choice. It can go cross country, but with more fuel stops and as I said is slower than the CJ. If you're a tall guy that likes a roomy cockpit and does not want an Experimental Category aircraft, the T-34 is the best choice. The CJ is middle ground in all catagories. It does everything, but is simply not the BEST at everything, but again, I think it is one of the best looking aircraft out there, and if I could fit into the darn thing, would probably own one, but with an M-14 installed! Single seaters like the 50, 55, 26, 31, etc., are a whole different category so need not be mentioned. Mark p.s. I will always LOVE the electric landing gear with manual emergency crank in the T-34 better than the pneumatic mess in the CJ's and Yaks. Simple and reliable and nothing LEAKS! :-) ________________________________ From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] on behalf of skyjockey [mixxalot@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2015 11:35 AM Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Re: First time buyer of a Yak 52 or Nanchang CJ-6 I need to fly in a CJ6 and T34 to make the decision! -------- warbird and lover of all things that go fast and upside down! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451416#451416 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:11:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Re: First time buyer of a Yak 52 or Nanchang CJ-6 From: "DaBear@damned.org" Mark, I've owned the Yak-52 and the CJ6, the 52 does NOT have a bigger cockpit than the CJ6. Maybe you meant to say the 50. BTW, with the rudder peddle mods and the malcom hood, you would fit in the CJ6. The CJ6 is a completely different airplane when the M14p is added and i have roughly 300 hours in the Yak-52 (2 years ownership), and 600-900 hours in the Stock CJ6 and M14P(f) CJ6 respectively. The CJ6 is a much better formation plane then the 52, the 52 is a much better acro plane. In my not so humble opinion. Bear On 12/26/2015 3:05 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD wrote: > > Having 900 hours in a T-34B, and 1000 or so in a YAK-50 (but none in a CJ-6 I am sad to report), I will say this. > > > The T-34 has much more room, has a fairly high Vne, and uses all American parts (thus they are available), but they are not cheap, the FAA is keeping a close eye on them after a wing off light came on during that incident where some idiots were teaching dog-fighting skills to wanna-be's in airframes with many many thousands of hours on them yanking well over the max G limit of +6/-4 (at the time). That required one of several different kinds of spar mods and inspections. > > > They are EASY to fly, have 3 axis trim and with 50 gallons have a decent range. The controls are balanced well, and include anti-servo's on the control surfaces. Many have engines upgraded to 520 or 550's with 3 bladed props. Needed, because with the stock 470, they were pretty much a dog at 2950 pounds gross. They will do aerobatics, but they do not maintain energy (when stock), and you have to constantly be aware of your degrading energy state. Many rudders have been sorta bent by folks doing snaps at too high an entry speed, and a lot of them have magnesium control surfaces, which need to be hawked carefully for corrosion. Some of have been re-skinned to aluminum. By the way, inverted flight in a T-34 is limited to something like 15 seconds. They use a dry sump engine and a 3 gallon oil tank. The oil is not returned to the tank when inverted and if you are not careful and roll upright after too long inverted without reducing to idle, you can actually do amazing t! > hings to the prop... like have it come off. > > > The landing gear is tough, hard to hurt, and will take huge amounts of punishment. I saw one landed in a plowed field with no damage. They are extremely stable for formation flying and have excellent vis. Basically the T-34 will always be my most favorite airplane to own, overall....but that comes at a pretty darn steep price. > > > I'd say the aerobatic capability of the CJ is in the same ball-park as the T-34. Cockpits are MUCH smaller, but can be modified. Both are trainers and had the same goals in mind, so their design features are on a par with each other. The CJ-6 is by FAR the more beautiful aircraft, and MUCH cheaper to own, and ... hey, it's got a radial! Like the T-34, the CJ is also somewhat underpowered, but is a stable formation platform. > > > But to continue ... there are the YAK's and also the SU-29 if you have money. The SU-29 beats them all in my opinion. Again, small cockpits, but has range and will rip your lips off. It is the Ferrari of two seaters until you get to heavy iron and it does better aerobatics than anything else discussed. > > > The YAK-52 has slightly bigger cockpits than the CJ, but less fuel. Slower than the CJ-6, but with comparable pilots will eat the CJ-6 alive in a dog fight, simply because it has more energy and is designed for it. It is a tractor of a Russian airplane. Has some spin characteristics that need to be experienced with an instructor, but not anything dangerous once you learn what's up. It was built to be an advanced trainer, meaning advanced aerobatics. It will even do tumbles. > > > So if you ever think of getting serious about aerobatics, or dog-fighting, etc., etc., the YAK-52 is really the best choice. It can go cross country, but with more fuel stops and as I said is slower than the CJ. If you're a tall guy that likes a roomy cockpit and does not want an Experimental Category aircraft, the T-34 is the best choice. The CJ is middle ground in all catagories. It does everything, but is simply not the BEST at everything, but again, I think it is one of the best looking aircraft out there, and if I could fit into the darn thing, would probably own one, but with an M-14 installed! > > > Single seaters like the 50, 55, 26, 31, etc., are a whole different category so need not be mentioned. > > > Mark > > > p.s. I will always LOVE the electric landing gear with manual emergency crank in the T-34 better than the pneumatic mess in the CJ's and Yaks. Simple and reliable and nothing LEAKS! :-) > > > ________________________________ > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] on behalf of skyjockey [mixxalot@yahoo.com] > Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2015 11:35 AM > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Re: First time buyer of a Yak 52 or Nanchang CJ-6 > > > I need to fly in a CJ6 and T34 to make the decision! > > -------- > warbird and lover of all things that go fast and upside down! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451416#451416 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:15:04 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: First time buyer of a Yak 52 or Nanchang CJ-6 From: "skyjockey" What am I trying to decide? Which plane I like best as price is similar for a nice CJ6 versus a nice T34. Right now I don't need advanced acro plane and for that an Extra or Pitts works better. I love the Yak but its range and cargo space is not that good for more than an hour flight. Perhaps someone who has owned both a CJ6 and a T34 might have some insights. Cost is similar. I see nice CJ6 for 120-150K and nice T34 in same price range. Fuel burn is similar and MX except for wing spar AD then would image similar as well. -------- warbird and lover of all things that go fast and upside down! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451420#451420 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:19 PM PST US From: Doug Zeissner Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: First time buyer of a Yak 52 or Nanchang CJ-6 All good aircraft, no bad choices. My criteria would be to get the type of aircraft that is active in your area. Having a group to fly with will increase your enjoyment immensely. Doug Z Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 26, 2015, at 4:11 PM, skyjockey wrote: > > > What am I trying to decide? > > Which plane I like best as price is similar for a nice CJ6 versus a nice T34. > > Right now I don't need advanced acro plane and for that an Extra or Pitts works better. I love the Yak but its range and cargo space is not that good for more than an hour flight. Perhaps someone who has owned both a CJ6 and a T34 might have some insights. Cost is similar. I see nice CJ6 for 120-150K and nice T34 in same price range. Fuel burn is similar and MX except for wing spar AD then would image similar as well. > > -------- > warbird and lover of all things that go fast and upside down! > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451420#451420 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:52 PM PST US From: Stephen Jones <727gs@att.net> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Housai SS exhaust system for sale Still got your exhaust for sale? Steve near Chicago Off list: 727gs@att.net ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:05 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: First time buyer of a Yak 52 or Nanchang CJ-6 From: "AcroGimp" pilotdog57(at)aol.com wrote: > All good aircraft, no bad choices. My criteria would be to get the type of aircraft that is active in your area. Having a group to fly with will increase your enjoyment immensely. > > Doug Z This times 1000. Find out what the guys in your area fly and for which you can get local maintenance support and parts. Also, keep in mind that the CJ and Yak are experimental which significantly opens up your options for mods (e.g., ADS-B, etc.), parts, etc. 'Gimp -------- Owner/Pilot N6209F 1987 Yak-52 COMM/ASEL/IFR/HP-Complex/TW Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=451423#451423 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:20 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: First time buyer of a Yak 52 or Nanchang CJ-6 From: "skyjockey" True well I live in San Diego but next year or two plan to buy land and private airstrip in a cheaper state like Arizona, Nevada, Oregon or maybe Florida. Not sure what community exists here and in the southwest? Julie Clark flies a T34 and she is one of the most famous airshow aerobatic pilots. -------- warbird and lover of all things that go fast and upside down! 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