Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:10 AM - Re: Oil shutoff valve (cjpilot710@aol.com)
2. 03:35 AM - Re: Oil shutoff valve (jlpartington@reagan.com)
3. 08:01 AM - Re: Oil shutoff valve (Roger Kemp)
4. 08:25 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Oil shutoff valve (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
5. 09:35 AM - Re: Oil shutoff valve (Walter Lannon)
6. 11:18 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Oil shutoff valve (Roger Kemp)
7. 03:48 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Oil shutoff valve (cjpilot710@aol.com)
8. 06:38 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Oil shutoff valve (jlpartington@reagan.com)
9. 08:36 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Oil shutoff valve (Roger Kemp)
10. 08:46 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Oil shutoff valve (cjpilot710@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Oil shutoff valve |
Be very careful about using the valve. Forgetting to open the valve
before engine start has caused the wrecking of at least 2 engines that I
personally know of. I guarantee you, its an expensive experience. I am not
familiar with Kinball's valve, but if there is a way to brake the starter
solenoid electrical circuit while the valve is closed, DO IT. Also, you should
have a nice big OIL low pressure light in conspicuous place of the front
panel. Better yet a big red light on the front panel showing the valve is
closed. If the valve is electrically open or closed, try to make sure the
light for the valve position, uses a different power source. And get into the
habit of checking your oil pressure gage several times after starting.
The distraction of being rushed to make a takeoff time for an event, thus
missing the fact that the valve was still closed will lead to the expense of
an overhaul.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 2/24/2016 3:49:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jlpartington@reagan.com writes:
I just bought a Oil shut off valve from Jim Kimball Enterprises for my
CJ-6.
Has anyone installed one? Suggestions/pictures/help...
Jim (Pooh) Partington
817 917 6806
_
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Oil shutoff valve |
=0AJim put a starter halting switch on the valve. Suggestions on mounting
location, seems that it could be placed in a couple of places.=0A-----Origi
nal Message-----=0AFrom: cjpilot710@aol.com=0ASent: Thursday, 25 February,
2016 2:57am=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: Oil shuto
ff valve=0A=0A=0A=0ABe very careful about using the valve. Forgetting to o
pen the valve before engine start has caused the wrecking of at least 2 eng
ines that I personally know of. I guarantee you, its an expensive experien
ce. I am not familiar with Kinball's valve, but if there is a way to brake
the starter solenoid electrical circuit while the valve is closed, DO IT.
Also, you should have a nice big OIL low pressure light in conspicuous pla
ce of the front panel. Better yet a big red light on the front panel showi
ng the valve is closed. If the valve is electrically open or closed, try t
o make sure the light for the valve position, uses a different power source
. And get into the habit of checking your oil pressure gage several times
after starting. The distraction of being rushed to make a takeoff time for
an event, thus missing the fact that the valve was still closed will lead
to the expense of an overhaul.=0A =0AJim "Pappy" Goolsby=0A =0A=0AIn a mess
age dated 2/24/2016 3:49:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jlpartington@reagan
.com writes:=0AI just bought a Oil shut off valve from Jim Kimball Enterpri
ses for my CJ-6.=0A =0AHas anyone installed one? Suggestions/pictures/help
...=0A =0A =0AJim (Pooh) Partington=0A817 917 6806=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_
=0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Oil shutoff valve |
Pappy,
As you and I both know in our advance degenerative brain cell states KISS st
ill works best. Open the sump drain after shut down ( preferably drained int
o a clean gas can but optional) and pull (12 to 14)blades weekly to help cha
se away the hydraulic lock gremlin. If it is going to sit for longer than a m
onth without flying then pull the plugs out of the bottom three cylinders. T
hat is what the YAK maintenance manual calls for. Introducing another proced
ure into the loop only means one more opportunity to screw the pooch.
IMHO,
DOC
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 25, 2016, at 2:57 AM, cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
>
> Be very careful about using the valve. Forgetting to open the valve befor
e engine start has caused the wrecking of at least 2 engines that I personal
ly know of. I guarantee you, its an expensive experience. I am not familia
r with Kinball's valve, but if there is a way to brake the starter solenoid e
lectrical circuit while the valve is closed, DO IT. Also, you should have a
nice big OIL low pressure light in conspicuous place of the front panel. B
etter yet a big red light on the front panel showing the valve is closed. I
f the valve is electrically open or closed, try to make sure the light for t
he valve position, uses a different power source. And get into the habit of
checking your oil pressure gage several times after starting. The distract
ion of being rushed to make a takeoff time for an event, thus missing the fa
ct that the valve was still closed will lead to the expense of an overhaul.
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
> In a message dated 2/24/2016 3:49:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jlparting
ton@reagan.com writes:
> I just bought a Oil shut off valve from Jim Kimball Enterprises for my CJ-
6.
>
> Has anyone installed one? Suggestions/pictures/help...
>
>
> Jim (Pooh) Partington
> 817 917 6806
>
>
>
>
>
> _
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Oil shutoff valve |
Doc, I suggest you re-read what Pappy is saying because he is DEAD ON THE MONEY
AND EXACTLY CORRECT. His post has nothing to do with sump drains or pulling
engines through, or engines sitting around for a while. It has to do with the
dangers and benefits of oil shut off valves. Dangers being most important.
But since you posted it ......
I drain sumps into any old can and then trash the oil. Once oil comes out of an
engine, I never put it back in. Ever. You can, others can, I do not. I will
never pull plugs and leave them out of a cylinder no matter what any manual
says. It invites moisture intrusion and corrosion. Let the oil fill those
cylinders up over a period of months. Fine with me. Pull plugs when you next
want to go flying and drain the oil and then pull through with those plugs out.
That's what my manual says to do, although admittedly I wrote it.
Have a nice day. :-)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 11:00 AM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Oil shutoff valve
Pappy,
As you and I both know in our advance degenerative brain cell states KISS still
works best. Open the sump drain after shut down ( preferably drained into a clean
gas can but optional) and pull (12 to 14)blades weekly to help chase away
the hydraulic lock gremlin. If it is going to sit for longer than a month without
flying then pull the plugs out of the bottom three cylinders. That is what
the YAK maintenance manual calls for. Introducing another procedure into the
loop only means one more opportunity to screw the pooch.
IMHO,
DOC
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 25, 2016, at 2:57 AM, cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
Be very careful about using the valve. Forgetting to open the valve before engine
start has caused the wrecking of at least 2 engines that I personally know
of. I guarantee you, its an expensive experience. I am not familiar with Kinball's
valve, but if there is a way to brake the starter solenoid electrical
circuit while the valve is closed, DO IT. Also, you should have a nice big OIL
low pressure light in conspicuous place of the front panel. Better yet a big
red light on the front panel showing the valve is closed. If the valve is
electrically open or closed, try to make sure the light for the valve position,
uses a different power source. And get into the habit of checking your oil
pressure gage several times after starting. The distraction of being rushed to
make a takeoff time for an event, thus missing the fact that the valve was still
closed will lead to the expense of an overhaul.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 2/24/2016 3:49:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jlpartington@reagan.com
writes:
I just bought a Oil shut off valve from Jim Kimball Enterprises for my CJ-6.
Has anyone installed one? Suggestions/pictures/help...
Jim (Pooh) Partington
817 917 6806
_
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Oil shutoff valve |
Jim;
I have installed the Kimball shut off valve on my own and one other CJ.
The valve itself is well made and should provide long term service but
unless you are an aircraft maintenance professional and capable of
recognizing the specific pitfalls of this installation I would not even
consider installing it.
You will find that Kimball will not get involved in any manner with the
installation. For the same reasons I too will avoid any remote advice
to potential installers other than describing the areas I have
identified as questionable.
If you wish to discuss further contact me directly.
Walt
From: jlpartington@reagan.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 12:39 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Oil shutoff valve
I just bought a Oil shut off valve from Jim Kimball Enterprises for my
CJ-6.
Has anyone installed one? Suggestions/pictures/help...
Jim (Pooh) Partington
817 917 6806
_
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Oil shutoff valve |
Mark,
Thanks for pointing that out. Guess I could have had a V8.
I understood what Pappy said perfectly well. What I suggested was not adding another
step to the hydraulic lock prevention check-list. It is one more piece of
technology that can fail. Pappy can speak on the experience of having to rebuild
an engine due to zero oil pressure after shut off valve failure.
Bottom line, it is your personal choice as to how complicated you want to make
your check-list. What ever floats your boat or blows your skirt up.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 25, 2016, at 10:24 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
wrote:
>
>
> Doc, I suggest you re-read what Pappy is saying because he is DEAD ON THE MONEY
AND EXACTLY CORRECT. His post has nothing to do with sump drains or pulling
engines through, or engines sitting around for a while. It has to do with
the dangers and benefits of oil shut off valves. Dangers being most important.
>
> But since you posted it ......
>
> I drain sumps into any old can and then trash the oil. Once oil comes out of
an engine, I never put it back in. Ever. You can, others can, I do not. I
will never pull plugs and leave them out of a cylinder no matter what any manual
says. It invites moisture intrusion and corrosion. Let the oil fill those
cylinders up over a period of months. Fine with me. Pull plugs when you next
want to go flying and drain the oil and then pull through with those plugs
out. That's what my manual says to do, although admittedly I wrote it.
>
> Have a nice day. :-)
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 11:00 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Oil shutoff valve
>
> Pappy,
> As you and I both know in our advance degenerative brain cell states KISS still
works best. Open the sump drain after shut down ( preferably drained into a
clean gas can but optional) and pull (12 to 14)blades weekly to help chase away
the hydraulic lock gremlin. If it is going to sit for longer than a month without
flying then pull the plugs out of the bottom three cylinders. That is what
the YAK maintenance manual calls for. Introducing another procedure into the
loop only means one more opportunity to screw the pooch.
> IMHO,
> DOC
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Feb 25, 2016, at 2:57 AM, cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Be very careful about using the valve. Forgetting to open the valve before
engine start has caused the wrecking of at least 2 engines that I personally
know of. I guarantee you, its an expensive experience. I am not familiar with
Kinball's valve, but if there is a way to brake the starter solenoid electrical
circuit while the valve is closed, DO IT. Also, you should have a nice big
OIL low pressure light in conspicuous place of the front panel. Better yet
a big red light on the front panel showing the valve is closed. If the valve
is electrically open or closed, try to make sure the light for the valve position,
uses a different power source. And get into the habit of checking your
oil pressure gage several times after starting. The distraction of being rushed
to make a takeoff time for an event, thus missing the fact that the valve was
still closed will lead to the expense of an overhaul.
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
> In a message dated 2/24/2016 3:49:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jlpartington@reagan.com
writes:
>
> I just bought a Oil shut off valve from Jim Kimball Enterprises for my
CJ-6.
>
>
>
> Has anyone installed one? Suggestions/pictures/help...
>
>
>
>
>
> Jim (Pooh) Partington
>
> 817 917 6806
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Oil shutoff valve |
I'll put in what was my experience with an oil tank shut off valve. The
system came off a military helicopter, and that I bought from Bill
Blackwell. The system was wired to prevent starting the engine with the valve
closed. There was also a green (valve open) and red (valve closed) lights on
the panel. The system worked loyally for at least 1,900 hours. One day when
getting ready to fly for a memorial service, we (I actually) got rushed.
I "opened" the valve with the electrical switch and got a green light.
Cleared the prop, and hit the starter button. The solenoid open and engine
started. At this point I had a distraction (never mind what - my fault). As
a result I did not notice that I had NO oil pressure after start. AAMOF I
didn't look it until I notice my prop wasn't responding during the run up.
To late. I surmise that the gears in the motor of the valve had sheared
and did not open the valve. They were bad on inspection. I believe the
wiring that was suppose to be the protection against starting the engine with
the valve closed was actually hook into the bi directional motor in the
unit and not the valve position itself.
Besides a lot guff from the wife and $**,***.oo, and another "learning
experience", I now have a 100 hour since zero overhaul from Barrett that I am
very please with. Plus the high compression pistons put out 388 hp which
medicates a little of the bruised ego.
Yes I still have a oil tank shut off valve. However, I modified the old
valve, so that I open and closed it manually with a push pull cable. Next
to the knob are a red & green lights that are now actived by micro switches
mount on the valve itself. This is the first stage of the mod since I will
incorporate the solenoid wiring later. Right now I pay very close
attention to what I am doing. Which is what one is supposed to do - - - - right?
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 2/25/2016 2:18:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
f16viperdoc@me.com writes:
Mark,
Thanks for pointing that out. Guess I could have had a V8.
I understood what Pappy said perfectly well. What I suggested was not
adding another step to the hydraulic lock prevention check-list. It is one more
piece of technology that can fail. Pappy can speak on the experience of
having to rebuild an engine due to zero oil pressure after shut off valve
failure.
Bottom line, it is your personal choice as to how complicated you want to
make your check-list. What ever floats your boat or blows your skirt up.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 25, 2016, at 10:24 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Doc, I suggest you re-read what Pappy is saying because he is DEAD ON
THE MONEY AND EXACTLY CORRECT. His post has nothing to do with sump drains
or pulling engines through, or engines sitting around for a while. It has
to do with the dangers and benefits of oil shut off valves. Dangers being
most important.
>
> But since you posted it ......
>
> I drain sumps into any old can and then trash the oil. Once oil comes
out of an engine, I never put it back in. Ever. You can, others can, I do
not. I will never pull plugs and leave them out of a cylinder no matter
what any manual says. It invites moisture intrusion and corrosion. Let the
oil fill those cylinders up over a period of months. Fine with me. Pull
plugs when you next want to go flying and drain the oil and then pull
through with those plugs out. That's what my manual says to do, although
admittedly I wrote it.
>
> Have a nice day. :-)
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 11:00 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Oil shutoff valve
>
> Pappy,
> As you and I both know in our advance degenerative brain cell states
KISS still works best. Open the sump drain after shut down ( preferably
drained into a clean gas can but optional) and pull (12 to 14)blades weekly to
help chase away the hydraulic lock gremlin. If it is going to sit for longer
than a month without flying then pull the plugs out of the bottom three
cylinders. That is what the YAK maintenance manual calls for. Introducing
another procedure into the loop only means one more opportunity to screw the
pooch.
> IMHO,
> DOC
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Feb 25, 2016, at 2:57 AM, cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Be very careful about using the valve. Forgetting to open the valve
before engine start has caused the wrecking of at least 2 engines that I
personally know of. I guarantee you, its an expensive experience. I am not
familiar with Kinball's valve, but if there is a way to brake the starter
solenoid electrical circuit while the valve is closed, DO IT. Also, you
should have a nice big OIL low pressure light in conspicuous place of the
front panel. Better yet a big red light on the front panel showing the valve
is closed. If the valve is electrically open or closed, try to make sure
the light for the valve position, uses a different power source. And get
into the habit of checking your oil pressure gage several times after
starting. The distraction of being rushed to make a takeoff time for an event,
thus missing the fact that the valve was still closed will lead to the expense
of an overhaul.
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
> In a message dated 2/24/2016 3:49:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jlpartington@reagan.com writes:
>
> I just bought a Oil shut off valve from Jim Kimball Enterprises
for my CJ-6.
>
>
>
> Has anyone installed one? Suggestions/pictures/help...
>
>
>
>
>
> Jim (Pooh) Partington
>
> 817 917 6806
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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|
| Subject: | Re: Oil shutoff valve |
=0AGreat lesson and story, thanks. I chose the manual valve, where did you
mount your valve? Seems to be several options, or not. =0A =0AMy my othe
r question was is it worth it. I think you answered that one=0A =0A-----Or
iginal Message-----=0AFrom: cjpilot710@aol.com=0ASent: Thursday, 25 Februar
y, 2016 5:47pm=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: [Non-DoD Source]
Re: Yak-List: Oil shutoff valve=0A=0A=0A=0AI'll put in what was my experie
nce with an oil tank shut off valve. The system came off a military helico
pter, and that I bought from Bill Blackwell. The system was wired to preve
nt starting the engine with the valve closed. There was also a green (valv
e open) and red (valve closed) lights on the panel. The system worked loya
lly for at least 1,900 hours. One day when getting ready to fly for a memo
rial service, we (I actually) got rushed. I "opened" the valve with the el
ectrical switch and got a green light. Cleared the prop, and hit the start
er button. The solenoid open and engine started. At this point I had a di
straction (never mind what - my fault). As a result I did not notice that
I had NO oil pressure after start. AAMOF I didn't look it until I notice m
y prop wasn't responding during the run up. To late. I surmise that the g
ears in the motor of the valve had sheared and did not open the valve. The
y were bad on inspection. I believe the wiring that was suppose to be the
protection against starting the engine with the valve closed was actually h
ook into the bi directional motor in the unit and not the valve position it
self.=0A =0ABesides a lot guff from the wife and $**,***.oo, and another "l
earning experience", I now have a 100 hour since zero overhaul from Barrett
that I am very please with. Plus the high compression pistons put out 388
hp which medicates a little of the bruised ego.=0A =0AYes I still have a o
il tank shut off valve. However, I modified the old valve, so that I open
and closed it manually with a push pull cable. Next to the knob are a red
& green lights that are now actived by micro switches mount on the valve it
self. This is the first stage of the mod since I will incorporate the sole
noid wiring later. Right now I pay very close attention to what I am doing
. Which is what one is supposed to do - - - - right? =0A =0A =0AJim "Pappy
" Goolsby=0A =0A=0AIn a message dated 2/25/2016 2:18:29 P.M. Eastern Standa
mp <f16viperdoc@me.com>=0A=0AMark,=0AThanks for pointing that out. Guess I
could have had a V8. =0AI understood what Pappy said perfectly well. What I
suggested was not adding another step to the hydraulic lock prevention che
ck-list. It is one more piece of technology that can fail. Pappy can speak
on the experience of having to rebuild an engine due to zero oil pressure a
fter shut off valve failure.=0ABottom line, it is your personal choice as t
o how complicated you want to make your check-list. What ever floats your b
oat or blows your skirt up. =0ADoc=0A=0ASent from my iPad=0A=0A> On Feb 25,
2016, at 10:24 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich@navy
IV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>=0A> =0A> Doc, I suggest you re-re
ad what Pappy is saying because he is DEAD ON THE MONEY AND EXACTLY CORRECT
. His post has nothing to do with sump drains or pulling engines through,
or engines sitting around for a while. It has to do with the dangers and
benefits of oil shut off valves. Dangers being most important. =0A> =0A>
But since you posted it ...... =0A> =0A> I drain sumps into any old can an
d then trash the oil. Once oil comes out of an engine, I never put it back
in. Ever. You can, others can, I do not. I will never pull plugs and l
eave them out of a cylinder no matter what any manual says. It invites moi
sture intrusion and corrosion. Let the oil fill those cylinders up over a
period of months. Fine with me. Pull plugs when you next want to go flyin
g and drain the oil and then pull through with those plugs out. That's wha
t my manual says to do, although admittedly I wrote it. =0A> =0A> Have a n
ice day. :-) =0A> =0A> Mark=0A> =0A> =0A> -----Original Message-----=0A>
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp=0A> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016
11:00 AM=0A> To: yak-list@matronics.com=0A> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Y
ak-List: Oil shutoff valve=0A> =0A> Pappy,=0A> As you and I both know in ou
r advance degenerative brain cell states KISS still works best. Open the su
mp drain after shut down ( preferably drained into a clean gas can but opti
onal) and pull (12 to 14)blades weekly to help chase away the hydraulic loc
k gremlin. If it is going to sit for longer than a month without flying the
n pull the plugs out of the bottom three cylinders. That is what the YAK ma
intenance manual calls for. Introducing another procedure into the loop onl
y means one more opportunity to screw the pooch.=0A> IMHO,=0A> DOC=0A> =0A>
Sent from my iPad=0A> =0A> On Feb 25, 2016, at 2:57 AM, cjpilot710@aol.com
wrote:=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Be very careful about using the valve
. Forgetting to open the valve before engine start has caused the wrecking
of at least 2 engines that I personally know of. I guarantee you, its an
expensive experience. I am not familiar with Kinball's valve, but if there
is a way to brake the starter solenoid electrical circuit while the valve
is closed, DO IT. Also, you should have a nice big OIL low pressure light
in conspicuous place of the front panel. Better yet a big red light on the
front panel showing the valve is closed. If the valve is electrically ope
n or closed, try to make sure the light for the valve position, uses a diff
erent power source. And get into the habit of checking your oil pressure g
age several times after starting. The distraction of being rushed to make
a takeoff time for an event, thus missing the fact that the valve was still
closed will lead to the expense of an overhaul.=0A> =0A> Jim "Pappy
" Goolsby =0A> =0A> In a message dated 2/24/2016 3:49:42 P.M. Easter
n Standard Time, jlpartington@reagan.com writes:=0A> =0A> I just bou
ght a Oil shut off valve from Jim Kimball Enterprises for my CJ-6.=0A> =0A>
=0A> =0A> Has anyone installed one? Suggestions/pictures/h
elp...=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Jim (Pooh) Parti
ngton=0A> =0A> 817 917 6806=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>
=0A> =0A> =0A> _=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>
========================; n
bsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE to find Gifts nbsp; List k you
for p; -Matt Dralle, List =========
=============== e ties Day ======
================= - MATRONIC
S WEB FORUMS ====================
=== - List Contribution Web Site sp;
========================
===0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Oil shutoff valve |
Mark,
Sorry, I did not finish my sentence. "Pull the plugs out of the bottom three
cylinders before starting it again to allow trapped oil to drain." Did not m
ean to imply leaving the cylinders open to ambient air without installing a d
esiccant filter that can be purchased from aircraft spruce. Was being called
to the procedure suit as I was writing.
=46rom personal experience when my YAK sits for over a month even with the s
ump drain open and draining into a plastic catch can oil still collects in t
he bottom three cylinders. Most commonly in #6 with it yielding the most vol
ume when uncorked.
No I do not pour the oil collected from the sump back into the tank. I thou
ght about it but after thinking more decided Phillips oil in the quart bottl
e offered more peace of mind than saving a few bucks on oil. Too high of a r
isk for contamination. To date have found one dead mouse, a dead starling, a
nd one mouse swimming in my exhaust stack drain buckets. The hanger cat is h
ell on interlopers. No, she does not like MMO either.
Question. Do you leave your intake drain open when the aircraft sits? If so t
hen is the system not open and exposed to ambient air?
We all want to prevent damage to our engines. Bottomline, nothing is perfe
ct nor fool proof.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 25, 2016, at 8:37 PM, jlpartington@reagan.com wrote:
>
> Great lesson and story, thanks. I chose the manual valve, where did you m
ount your valve? Seems to be several options, or not.
>
> My my other question was is it worth it. I think you answered that one
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cjpilot710@aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, 25 February, 2016 5:47pm
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Oil shutoff valve
>
> I'll put in what was my experience with an oil tank shut off valve. The s
ystem came off a military helicopter, and that I bought from Bill Blackwell.
The system was wired to prevent starting the engine with the valve closed.
There was also a green (valve open) and red (valve closed) lights on the p
anel. The system worked loyally for at least 1,900 hours. One day when get
ting ready to fly for a memorial service, we (I actually) got rushed. I "op
ened" the valve with the electrical switch and got a green light. Cleared t
he prop, and hit the starter button. The solenoid open and engine started.
At this point I had a distraction (never mind what - my fault). As a resul
t I did not notice that I had NO oil pressure after start. AAMOF I didn't l
ook it until I notice my prop wasn't responding during the run up. To late.
I surmise that the gears in the motor of the valve had sheared and did not
open the valve. They were bad on inspection. I believe the wiring that wa
s suppose to be the protection against starting the engine with the valve cl
osed was actually hook into the bi directional motor in the unit and not the
valve position itself.
>
> Besides a lot guff from the wife and $**,***.oo, and another "learning exp
erience", I now have a 100 hour since zero overhaul from Barrett that I am v
ery please with. Plus the high compression pistons put out 388 hp which med
icates a little of the bruised ego.
>
> Yes I still have a oil tank shut off valve. However, I modified the old v
alve, so that I open and closed it manually with a push pull cable. Next to
the knob are a red & green lights that are now actived by micro switches mo
unt on the valve itself. This is the first stage of the mod since I will in
corporate the solenoid wiring later. Right now I pay very close attention t
o what I am doing. Which is what one is supposed to do - - - - right?
>
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
> In a message dated 2/25/2016 2:18:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, f16viperd
oc@me.com writes:
>
> Mark,
> Thanks for pointing that out. Guess I could have had a V8.
> I understood what Pappy said perfectly well. What I suggested was not addi
ng another step to the hydraulic lock prevention check-list. It is one more p
iece of technology that can fail. Pappy can speak on the experience of havin
g to rebuild an engine due to zero oil pressure after shut off valve failure
.
> Bottom line, it is your personal choice as to how complicated you want to m
ake your check-list. What ever floats your boat or blows your skirt up.
> Doc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Feb 25, 2016, at 10:24 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bi
tterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
> >
k.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> >
> > Doc, I suggest you re-read what Pappy is saying because he is DEAD ON TH
E MONEY AND EXACTLY CORRECT. His post has nothing to do with sump drains o
r pulling engines through, or engines sitting around for a while. It has to
do with the dangers and benefits of oil shut off valves. Dangers being mos
t important.
> >
> > But since you posted it ......
> >
> > I drain sumps into any old can and then trash the oil. Once oil comes o
ut of an engine, I never put it back in. Ever. You can, others can, I do n
ot. I will never pull plugs and leave them out of a cylinder no matter wha
t any manual says. It invites moisture intrusion and corrosion. Let the oi
l fill those cylinders up over a period of months. Fine with me. Pull plug
s when you next want to go flying and drain the oil and then pull through wi
th those plugs out. That's what my manual says to do, although admittedly I
wrote it.
> >
> > Have a nice day. :-)
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@
matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
> > Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 11:00 AM
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Oil shutoff valve
> >
> > Pappy,
> > As you and I both know in our advance degenerative brain cell states KIS
S still works best. Open the sump drain after shut down ( preferably drained
into a clean gas can but optional) and pull (12 to 14)blades weekly to help
chase away the hydraulic lock gremlin. If it is going to sit for longer tha
n a month without flying then pull the plugs out of the bottom three cylinde
rs. That is what the YAK maintenance manual calls for. Introducing another p
rocedure into the loop only means one more opportunity to screw the pooch.
> > IMHO,
> > DOC
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > On Feb 25, 2016, at 2:57 AM, cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Be very careful about using the valve. Forgetting to open the valve b
efore engine start has caused the wrecking of at least 2 engines that I pers
onally know of. I guarantee you, its an expensive experience. I am not fam
iliar with Kinball's valve, but if there is a way to brake the starter solen
oid electrical circuit while the valve is closed, DO IT. Also, you should h
ave a nice big OIL low pressure light in conspicuous place of the front pane
l. Better yet a big red light on the front panel showing the valve is close
d. If the valve is electrically open or closed, try to make sure the light f
or the valve position, uses a different power source. And get into the habi
t of checking your oil pressure gage several times after starting. The dist
raction of being rushed to make a takeoff time for an event, thus missing th
e fact that the valve was still closed will lead to the expense of an overha
ul.
> >
> > Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
> >
> > In a message dated 2/24/2016 3:49:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jlpa
rtington@reagan.com writes:
> >
> > I just bought a Oil shut off valve from Jim Kimball Enterprises f
or my CJ-6.
> >
> >
> >
> > Has anyone installed one? Suggestions/pictures/help...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim (Pooh) Partington
> >
> > 817 917 6806
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ========================
; nbsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE to find Gifts nbsp; List k yo
u for p; -Matt Dralle, List ==========
============== e ties Day ========
=============== - MATRONICS WEB FO
RUMS =======================
- List Contribution Web Site sp; ===
======================
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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|
| Subject: | Re: Oil shutoff valve |
The valve is on the bottom of the oil tank. I had to remove the oil tank
and weld up extra material so as to beef up the bottom. At the time we
felt it was a little weak in that area.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 2/25/2016 11:37:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
f16viperdoc@me.com writes:
Mark,
Sorry, I did not finish my sentence. "Pull the plugs out of the bottom
three cylinders before starting it again to allow trapped oil to drain." Did
not mean to imply leaving the cylinders open to ambient air without
installing a desiccant filter that can be purchased from aircraft spruce. Was
being
called to the procedure suit as I was writing.
From personal experience when my YAK sits for over a month even with the
sump drain open and draining into a plastic catch can oil still collects in
the bottom three cylinders. Most commonly in #6 with it yielding the most
volume when uncorked.
No I do not pour the oil collected from the sump back into the tank. I
thought about it but after thinking more decided Phillips oil in the quart
bottle offered more peace of mind than saving a few bucks on oil. Too high of
a risk for contamination. To date have found one dead mouse, a dead
starling, and one mouse swimming in my exhaust stack drain buckets. The hanger
cat is hell on interlopers. No, she does not like MMO either.
Question. Do you leave your intake drain open when the aircraft sits? If
so then is the system not open and exposed to ambient air?
We all want to prevent damage to our engines. Bottomline, nothing is
perfect nor fool proof.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 25, 2016, at 8:37 PM, _jlpartington@reagan.com_
(mailto:jlpartington@reagan.com) wrote:
Great lesson and story, thanks. I chose the manual valve, where did you
mount your valve? Seems to be several options, or not.
My my other question was is it worth it. I think you answered that one
-----Original Message-----
From: _cjpilot710@aol.com_ (mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com)
Sent: Thursday, 25 February, 2016 5:47pm
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Oil shutoff valve
I'll put in what was my experience with an oil tank shut off valve. The
system came off a military helicopter, and that I bought from Bill
Blackwell. The system was wired to prevent starting the engine with the valve
closed. There was also a green (valve open) and red (valve closed) lights on
the panel. The system worked loyally for at least 1,900 hours. One day when
getting ready to fly for a memorial service, we (I actually) got rushed.
I "opened" the valve with the electrical switch and got a green light.
Cleared the prop, and hit the starter button. The solenoid open and engine
started. At this point I had a distraction (never mind what - my fault).
As a result I did not notice that I had NO oil pressure after start. AAMOF
I didn't look it until I notice my prop wasn't responding during the run
up. To late. I surmise that the gears in the motor of the valve had sheared
and did not open the valve. They were bad on inspection. I believe the
wiring that was suppose to be the protection against starting the engine
with the valve closed was actually hook into the bi directional motor in the
unit and not the valve position itself.
Besides a lot guff from the wife and $**,***.oo, and another "learning
experience", I now have a 100 hour since zero overhaul from Barrett that I am
very please with. Plus the high compression pistons put out 388 hp which
medicates a little of the bruised ego.
Yes I still have a oil tank shut off valve. However, I modified the old
valve, so that I open and closed it manually with a push pull cable. Next
to the knob are a red & green lights that are now actived by micro switches
mount on the valve itself. This is the first stage of the mod since I will
incorporate the solenoid wiring later. Right now I pay very close
attention to what I am doing. Which is what one is supposed to do - - - - right?
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 2/25/2016 2:18:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
_f16viperdoc@me.com_ (mailto:f16viperdoc@me.com) writes:
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <_f16viperdoc@me.com_
(mailto:f16viperdoc@me.com) >
Mark,
Thanks for pointing that out. Guess I could have had a V8.
I understood what Pappy said perfectly well. What I suggested was not
adding another step to the hydraulic lock prevention check-list. It is one more
piece of technology that can fail. Pappy can speak on the experience of
having to rebuild an engine due to zero oil pressure after shut off valve
failure.
Bottom line, it is your personal choice as to how complicated you want to
make your check-list. What ever floats your boat or blows your skirt up.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 25, 2016, at 10:24 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
<_mark.bitterlich@navy.mil_ (mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil) > wrote:
>
<_mark.bitterlich@navy.mil_ (mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil) >
>
> Doc, I suggest you re-read what Pappy is saying because he is DEAD ON
THE MONEY AND EXACTLY CORRECT. His post has nothing to do with sump drains
or pulling engines through, or engines sitting around for a while. It has
to do with the dangers and benefits of oil shut off valves. Dangers being
most important.
>
> But since you posted it ......
>
> I drain sumps into any old can and then trash the oil. Once oil comes
out of an engine, I never put it back in. Ever. You can, others can, I do
not. I will never pull plugs and leave them out of a cylinder no matter
what any manual says. It invites moisture intrusion and corrosion. Let
the oil fill those cylinders up over a period of months. Fine with me. Pull
plugs when you next want to go flying and drain the oil and then pull
through with those plugs out. That's what my manual says to do, although
admittedly I wrote it.
>
> Have a nice day. :-)
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: _owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Roger Kemp
> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 11:00 AM
> To: _yak-list@matronics.com_ (mailto:yak-list@matronics.com)
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Oil shutoff valve
>
> Pappy,
> As you and I both know in our advance degenerative brain cell states
KISS still works best. Open the sump drain after shut down ( preferably
drained into a clean gas can but optional) and pull (12 to 14)blades weekly to
help chase away the hydraulic lock gremlin. If it is going to sit for longer
than a month without flying then pull the plugs out of the bottom three
cylinders. That is what the YAK maintenance manual calls for. Introducing
another procedure into the loop only means one more opportunity to screw the
pooch.
> IMHO,
> DOC
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Feb 25, 2016, at 2:57 AM, _cjpilot710@aol.com_
(mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com) wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Be very careful about using the valve. Forgetting to open the valve
before engine start has caused the wrecking of at least 2 engines that I
personally know of. I guarantee you, its an expensive experience. I am not
familiar with Kinball's valve, but if there is a way to brake the starter
solenoid electrical circuit while the valve is closed, DO IT. Also, you
should have a nice big OIL low pressure light in conspicuous place of the
front panel. Better yet a big red light on the front panel showing the valve
is closed. If the valve is electrically open or closed, try to make sure
the light for the valve position, uses a different power source. And get
into the habit of checking your oil pressure gage several times after
starting. The distraction of being rushed to make a takeoff time for an event,
thus missing the fact that the valve was still closed will lead to the
expense of an overhaul.
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
> In a message dated 2/24/2016 3:49:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
_jlpartington@reagan.com_ (mailto:jlpartington@reagan.com) writes:
>
> I just bought a Oil shut off valve from Jim Kimball Enterprises
for my CJ-6.
>
>
>
> Has anyone installed one? Suggestions/pictures/help...
>
>
>
>
>
> Jim (Pooh) Partington
>
> 817 917 6806
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _
>
>
>
>
>
> ========================; nbsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE to
find Gifts nbsp; List k you for p; -Matt Dralle, List
======================== e ties Day ======================= - MATRONICS
WEB
FORUMS ======================= - List Contribution Web Site sp;
=========================
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