Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:54 AM - Re: Advise Needed re Cowl Repair (aerostar6)
2. 01:13 AM - Re: Advise Needed re Cowl Repair (aerostar6)
3. 01:14 AM - Re: Advise Needed re Cowl Repair (aerostar6)
4. 01:22 AM - Re: Auto wiring issues (Lancer)
5. 04:45 AM - Re: Re: Auto wiring issues (Chanock Richka)
6. 04:45 AM - Re: Re: Auto wiring issues (A. Dennis Savarese)
7. 05:00 AM - Re: Re: Auto wiring issues (Kurt Howerton)
8. 05:07 AM - Re: Re: Auto wiring issues (A. Dennis Savarese)
9. 06:11 AM - Re: Re: Auto wiring issues (bill wade)
10. 06:45 AM - Re: Re: Auto wiring issues (cjpilot710)
11. 12:38 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Re: Auto wiring issues (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
12. 01:15 PM - 1988 CJ-6A for sale (Adrian Coop Cooper)
13. 01:15 PM - 1988 CJ-6A for sale (Adrian Coop Cooper)
14. 01:15 PM - 1988 CJ-6A for sale (Adrian Coop Cooper)
15. 02:03 PM - Yak52 600 hour maintenance schedule (fishface68)
16. 02:08 PM - Re: Re: Auto wiring issues (Chanock Richka)
17. 06:24 PM - Nanchang Cowl Gills (Jay McIntyre)
18. 07:06 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Re: Auto wiring issues (Jon Blake)
19. 07:18 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Re: Auto wiring issues (Bill Geipel)
20. 07:35 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Re: Auto wiring issues (Ernest Martinez)
21. 08:34 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Re: Auto wiring issues (Jan Mevis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Advise Needed re Cowl Repair |
I had a similar problem last year, albeit a chord wise crack. My problem was the
reinforcing tube that runs around the circumference of the leading edge had
a crack propagating from one of the holes drilled to allow rivet installation.
The crack had actually fractured through 50% of the tube, allowing the skin to
flex and crack. I drilled out the rivets and removed the section of tube which
was affected, and cut away a large patch of the skin.
I would like to tell you that I then fabricated a new section of skin/doubler,
fashioned it to exactly follow the whole contour and replaced it, but it was well
beyond my skills.
I got a mechanic at my airline to take it away and do the honours!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455523#455523
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| Subject: | Re: Advise Needed re Cowl Repair |
....and here's the finished article.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455524#455524
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| Subject: | Re: Advise Needed re Cowl Repair |
Oops! Wrong picture, that's another repair - standby.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455525#455525
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| Subject: | Re: Auto wiring issues |
I have been flying a Nanchang for 13 years and never had to change 1 plug in all
that time so I can't see the advantage. Can anyone say what the motivation was
to change theirs and what changes they noticed with the auto plugs and leads.
Thanks
--------
You can run but you can't hide
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455526#455526
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| Subject: | Re: Auto wiring issues |
You absolutely right. The Russian excellent engineering. I did install auto
plugs and wires, and no additional benefits except more radio noise.
Yak driver 52cy
On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 4:22 AM, Lancer <lrob4783@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
> I have been flying a Nanchang for 13 years and never had to change 1 plug
> in all that time so I can't see the advantage. Can anyone say what the
> motivation was to change theirs and what changes they noticed with the auto
> plugs and leads.
>
> Thanks
>
> --------
> You can run but you can't hide
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455526#455526
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Auto wiring issues |
The problem was never the plugs.=C2- It was the wiring harness.=C2- The
original rubber plug wire rubber deteriorates inside the braided shields.
=C2- Once the deterioration starts the plug wire arcs to the braided shie
ld (ground) and you know what that does. A misfire.=C2- If one wants to r
etain the original harness configuration, the only way to fix that problem
is to pull a new wire through the wiring harness.=C2- If you've never don
e that before, I can tell you its not a fun job especially if the new wire
separates from the old wire while pulling it through the harness.=C2- Bee
n there, done that, got the T-shirt.
I'll let the people who have the automotive conversion kit comment on what
they found advantageous.
Dennis=C2-
From: Lancer <lrob4783@bigpond.net.au>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 4:22 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Auto wiring issues
I have been flying a Nanchang for 13 years and never had to change 1 plug i
n all that time so I can't see the advantage. Can anyone say what the motiv
ation was to change theirs and what changes they noticed with the auto plug
s and leads.
Thanks
--------
You can run but you can't hide
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455526#455526
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Auto wiring issues |
Just had the auto wiring installed in my CJ just a few months ago. Easier starts,
smoother running, slight improvement in fuel efficiency (that one may be in
my head, but I appear to have dropped from 14 to 13 gph)
Kurt Howerton
916-282-9231
http://cj6.scitechsys.com
> On Apr 27, 2016, at 4:22 AM, Lancer <lrob4783@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
>
> I have been flying a Nanchang for 13 years and never had to change 1 plug in
all that time so I can't see the advantage. Can anyone say what the motivation
was to change theirs and what changes they noticed with the auto plugs and leads.
>
> Thanks
>
> --------
> You can run but you can't hide
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455526#455526
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Auto wiring issues |
What radio do you have in your airplane?=C2- Could it be a Becker?=C2-
The 57mm round model 4201?Dennis
From: Chanock Richka <crichka@gmail.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Auto wiring issues
You absolutely right. The Russian excellent engineering. I did install auto
plugs and wires, and no additional benefits except more radio noise.=C2-
Yak driver 52cy =C2- =C2-
On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 4:22 AM, Lancer <lrob4783@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
I have been flying a Nanchang for 13 years and never had to change 1 plug i
n all that time so I can't see the advantage. Can anyone say what the motiv
ation was to change theirs and what changes they noticed with the auto plug
s and leads.
Thanks
--------
You can run but you can't hide
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455526#455526
List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigat
or?Yak-List
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
b Site -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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| Subject: | Re: Auto wiring issues |
Mr Lancer that falls under if it ain't broke don't fix it !!! You will now
when to fix it, when you have Hot run-ups and your motor runs ruff on one m
ag kind of like a fouled plug or your flying along and the engine starts ba
ckfiring and losing power till then fly on my friend fly on.=C2-Bill Wade
N4450Y Yak 52
From: Lancer <lrob4783@bigpond.net.au>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 4:22 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Auto wiring issues
I have been flying a Nanchang for 13 years and never had to change 1 plug i
n all that time so I can't see the advantage. Can anyone say what the motiv
ation was to change theirs and what changes they noticed with the auto plug
s and leads.
Thanks
--------
You can run but you can't hide
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455526#455526
S -
WIKI -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Auto wiring issues |
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| Subject: | Re: Auto wiring issues |
First. I have never in my entire lifetime heard of someone going 13 years on
one set of spark plugs. Let me take that back. I did park a car once and it
sat 10 years, and then I junked it. It never had a plug change in 10 years either.
But plugs do wear out, like anything else. 13 years is pretty much an
amazing statement.
My point is, that if you fly any Russian Radial what is considered a normal amount
of hours each year, you are not going to get 13 years out of one set of plugs.
Not on ANY spark plug on ANY engine! If the gent that said that wants
to insist on it being accurate, so be it. But that would also imply that anyone
who does NOT get 13 years out of their plugs must be doing something wrong.
I change my NGK plugs EVERY YEAR! I do not wait for things to go bad in airplanes.
I try to fix them before they get to the point where they are totally
inoperative, or I am stuck somewhere with an engine that won't start, because
that has happened to me, and I did not enjoy it.
Which brings us to the statement: "If it ain't broke don't fix it". Well yes,
to a certain degree, but ..... If my engine appears to be running good, should
I not do a compression check during the Conditional? If my engine is running
fine, should I never change the oil and run it for 13 years as well?
No. And the writer was NOT implying that, but I had to mention it. But realize
that if you run on the original wires and plugs a normal number of hours per
year, they are going to fail, and hopefully when you are not far from home.
Hopefully it will be a slight miss, and not a totally dead cylinder, or a dead
TWO cylinders.
I have a lot of experience with plug wires on M-14 engines. A LOT. I could go
into the engineering design differences between solid wires with rubber insulation
that have to be sealed in a metal tube to work (Faraday Shield) without
tearing up electronics in every direction, compared to those used in every automobile
engine made in modern times. Guess which ones work better? I put silicone
racing wires in my M-14 as soon as they came out, right after I helped
a friend do the same change on a Sukhoi SU-26 that belonged to a world renowned
aerobatic pilot. I then observed better idling, easier starting, along with
MASSIVELY CHEAPER spark plug changes. Anyone have the going price of a brand
new Russian plug? How about 18 of them? Anyone ever read the articles on
Chinese versus Russian plugs? (Which by the way are also unverified). Are people
here aware of what can happen if you drop a Russian plug and then install
it?
Factually there is more RF noise escaping from modern plug wires than there is
from ANY plug wire that is totally enclosed in a Faraday Shield, which is the
original Russian design, because that is the technology that they had, and that
is the technology that they used. But what also goes along with that fact
is how susceptible the radio itself is to RF noise. In that regard, not all radios
are created equal, just like not all spark plug wires are.
Look at it this way. If you refuse to take immunizations, and you lead a healthy
life for years and then catch some terrible disease, is it the fault of not
eradicating the disease from the planet, or the fact that you refused to take
the immunization? You could look at it either way.
There are a TON of benefits to using racing automotive silicone spark plugs wires,
and also automobile plugs. A HUGE downside is if you have an existing radio
that worked fine right up until the increase in noise came along. So the person
that has that happen personally, refuses to consider changing the radio,
but instead sits there and blames the spark plug wires and plugs themselves,
and then gets on this forum and says that the new wires and plugs offered no improvement
in engine performance at all, and just increased noise. Folks, that
is a poor soul guy venting his frustration and is NOT accurate information.
I get it that someone went back to Russian wires and plugs. I get it that
this made the radio noise go away. I get it that anyone would be frustrated
with that whole experience! And if I was in that persons shoes and did the same
thing, I might feel the same way.
But FACTUALLY, automotive plugs are better than Russian M-14 engine plugs. They
are cheaper (by a huge amount). You have a SELECTION of heat ranges that
allow you to tune the plugs to the engine. They are cheap enough to be consumable,
as it is easier/cheaper/ more practical to purchase new ones than it is
to buy a spark plug cleaner, and then go through re-gapping, pressure testing,
annealing the washers, etc. They are also easier to inspect and determine combustion
temperature impacts, thus changing heat ranges.
Wires: They are for the most part much more separated, thus reducing the chance
of cross-firing. Changing one wire is a matter of minutes versus hours. The
Russian wires have plug ends that need to be assembled. More spare parts required.
Automotive wires are consumable. You don't fix them. You throw them
away, and AGAIN save time and money. The new wires and new plugs fire more consistently
and have a much more reliable spark. This is most noticed with improvements
in idling RPM, thus also extending engine life, versus a mis-firing,
rough running engine. The consistency also places less strain in the mag coil.
With the plugs always being in a new condition, and changed every year, starting
becomes easier and more reliable. Less chance of running out of air and
being left in some hole with no high pressure air, and then propping an M-14
for the first time in your life.
But they do introduce some additional RF noise. If you have a radio that is highly
susceptible to that (and I've seen a number of the Becker radios that are.
Not *ALL* but some....) then you might not want to do this mod. If you are
thinking about it, ask around to those that have your exact model of radio first
and see how they are doing with it.
The reason I am writing is to pass accurate information. This will bother some
people. To those that it does, I hope you will get over it.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 7:41 AM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Auto wiring issues
The problem was never the plugs. It was the wiring harness. The original rubber
plug wire rubber deteriorates inside the braided shields. Once the deterioration
starts the plug wire arcs to the braided shield (ground) and you know what
that does. A misfire. If one wants to retain the original harness configuration,
the only way to fix that problem is to pull a new wire through the wiring
harness. If you've never done that before, I can tell you its not a fun job
especially if the new wire separates from the old wire while pulling it through
the harness. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.
I'll let the people who have the automotive conversion kit comment on what they
found advantageous.
Dennis
________________________________
From: Lancer <lrob4783@bigpond.net.au>
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 4:22 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Auto wiring issues
I have been flying a Nanchang for 13 years and never had to change 1 plug in all
that time so I can't see the advantage. Can anyone say what the motivation was
to change theirs and what changes they noticed with the auto plugs and leads.
Thanks
--------
You can run but you can't hide
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455526#455526
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
Message 12
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| Subject: | 1988 CJ-6A for sale |
Hi folks, age is catching up with me and it's time to down size.
My very well equipped CJ is for sale. Please see my listing on Barnstormers.
Thanks.
Coop
--------
Coop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455561#455561
Message 13
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| Subject: | 1988 CJ-6A for sale |
Hi folks, age is catching up with me and it's time to down size.
My very well equipped CJ is for sale. Please see my listing on Barnstormers.
Thanks.
Coop
--------
Coop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455562#455562
Message 14
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| Subject: | 1988 CJ-6A for sale |
Hi folks, age is catching up with me and it's time to down size.
My very well equipped CJ is for sale. Please see my listing on Barnstormers.
Thanks.
Coop
--------
Coop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455563#455563
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| Subject: | Yak52 600 hour maintenance schedule |
Hi all does anyone out there have a 600 hour maintenance schedule for the yak 52?
This is the schedule for the airframe re life at 600 hours, 3500 landings or
16 years whichever comes first.
Many thanks!
Regards Pat
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455564#455564
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| Subject: | Re: Auto wiring issues |
Russian radio. did not have noise with original harness
On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:06 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> What radio do you have in your airplane? Could it be a Becker? The 57mm
> round model 4201?
> Dennis
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Chanock Richka <crichka@gmail.com>
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 27, 2016 7:42 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Yak-List: Re: Auto wiring issues
>
> You absolutely right. The Russian excellent engineering. I did install
> auto plugs and wires, and no additional benefits except more radio noise.
> Yak driver 52cy
>
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 4:22 AM, Lancer <lrob4783@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
>
> I have been flying a Nanchang for 13 years and never had to change 1 plug
> in all that time so I can't see the advantage. Can anyone say what the
> motivation was to change theirs and what changes they noticed with the auto
> plugs and leads.
>
> Thanks
>
> --------
> You can run but you can't hide
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455526#455526
>
>
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Nanchang Cowl Gills |
Hi all,
Anyone out there have a set of cowl gills lying around that they might not
need after fitting an M-14?
Ideally after two sets...
On a different note, would anyone have contact details or know of who owns
the white Yak-7 N7YK?
http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/000932600.html
I would like to talk with them about oil cooling on this machine...
In all instances, please PM me at cjaviator@gmail,com
Thanks, Jay
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Auto wiring issues |
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Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Auto wiring issues |
I knew the calm was to good to last.
Sent from my iPad
> On Apr 28, 2016, at 10:53, Jon Blake <jblake207@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Well, for the record... And without calling others a liar, I have over 900
hours on my current stock plugs in my stock 285HP CJ and they don't look li
ke footballs yet. Installed them in 2005, rotate and clean at every annual. S
o I completely believe the man when he says he has 13 years on his plugs... I
n fact, I have no reason NOT to believe him.
>
> The airplane I owned before the CJ was a Mooney 201 with almost 1000 hours
on one set of plugs and about 8 years. Additionally, I helped maintain that
airplane after I sold it for an additional 2 years without installing new p
lugs. So plugs will last a long time if properly maintained, cleaned, gapped
, rotated each year or 100 hours like on the Mooney.
>
> So now you've heard of two people going 13 and 11 years on a set of stock p
lugs...in radial engines. In a regularly flying airplane (CJ) and not a car s
itting for 10 years. And before you make some statement about how I too must
be telling an untruth, come on over and I'll show you the plugs, engine and
maintenance records. I bought a set of new plugs from Jim Selby Sr. In 200
6 and they still sit in the locker unused.
>
> The gentleman didn't imply that others should get 13 years out of their pl
ugs... He simply stated that he's gotten 13 years and asked a question about
the advantage of the auto plug conversion. He simply asked the WHY... So wi
thout belittling anyone, the real answer on a forum intended to inform and e
ducate should have been... Well, in short, the answer Dennis provided.
>
> So Lancer, the answer to your question is this... Well, at least for me...
I've been running my stock Chinese spark plugs for 11 years (~900 hours) wi
th no issues...and plan to continue until they become unserviceable. Keep '
em clean and rotated. When you start having issues look at the wires first a
s Dennis suggests. I helped a friend change one p lead on his stock CJ engin
e and that solved his problem.
>
> Also for the record, if you drop ANY spark plug... Russian, Chinese or Ame
rican (REM 38/40) toss it in the trash... For that matter...even if you drop
a NGK plug on concrete toss it in the trash before you install in your airp
lane, motorcycle or even lawn mower. The ceramic coating around the electrod
e breaks and energy is lost once dropped and damaged. The only way to tell f
or certain is pressure testing if you have access to the equipment. When yo
ur plugs start looking like a football, or wont pass the pressure test or ma
g drop is too great...ask an A&P and follow his advice...or change them out.
.. One way You can tell if the plugs/wires are not firing correctly is CHT o
r external temperature tester/probe.
>
> I'm not an aero or mechanical engineer, but I am an A&P... Many are correc
t when they say it's easier to simply replace the plugs each year at the ann
ual, but that is also an expensive option...easy, but more expensive. In fac
t, I did just that when doing the annual condition inspection on a friend's C
J last fall.
>
> Hope this helps and encourages you.
>
> JB
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
>
>
> "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
>
bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> First. I have never in my entire lifetime heard of someone going 13 year
s on one set of spark plugs. Let me take that back. I did park a car once
and it sat 10 years, and then I junked it. It never had a plug change in 1
0 years either. But plugs do wear out, like anything else. 13 years is pr
etty much an amazing statement.
>
> My point is, that if you fly any Russian Radial what is considered a norma
l amount of hours each year, you are not going to get 13 years out of one s
et of plugs. Not on ANY spark plug on ANY engine! If the gent that said th
at wants to insist on it being accurate, so be it. But that would also impl
y that anyone who does NOT get 13 years out of their plugs must be doing som
ething wrong. I change my NGK plugs EVERY YEAR! I do not wait for things
to go bad in airplanes. I try to fix them before they get to the point whe
re they are totally inoperative, or I am stuck somewhere with an engine that
won't start, because that has happened to me, and I did not enjoy it.
>
> Which brings us to the statement: "If it ain't broke don't fix it". Wel
l yes, to a certain degree, but ..... If my engine appears to be running g
ood, should I not do a compression check during the Conditional? If my eng
ine is running fine, should I never change the oil and run it for 13 years a
s well? No. And the writer was NOT implying that, but I had to mention it
. But realize that if you run on the original wires and plugs a normal num
ber of hours per year, they are going to fail, and hopefully when you are no
t far from home. Hopefully it will be a slight miss, and not a totally dead
cylinder, or a dead TWO cylinders.
>
> I have a lot of experience with plug wires on M-14 engines. A LOT. I cou
ld go into the engineering design differences between solid wires with rubbe
r insulation that have to be sealed in a metal tube to work (Faraday Shield)
without tearing up electronics in every direction, compared to those used i
n every automobile engine made in modern times. Guess which ones work bett
er? I put silicone racing wires in my M-14 as soon as they came out, right
after I helped a friend do the same change on a Sukhoi SU-26 that belonged
to a world renowned aerobatic pilot. I then observed better idling, easier
starting, along with MASSIVELY CHEAPER spark plug changes. Anyone have the
going price of a brand new Russian plug? How about 18 of them? Anyone eve
r read the articles on Chinese versus Russian plugs? (Which by the way are a
lso unverified). Are people here aware of what can happen if you drop a Rus
sian plug and then install it?
>
> Factually there is more RF noise escaping from modern plug wires than ther
e is from ANY plug wire that is totally enclosed in a Faraday Shield, which i
s the original Russian design, because that is the technology that they had,
and that is the technology that they used. But what also goes along with t
hat fact is how susceptible the radio itself is to RF noise. In that regard
, not all radios are created equal, just like not all spark plug wires are.
>
> Look at it this way. If you refuse to take immunizations, and you lead a
healthy life for years and then catch some terrible disease, is it the faul
t of not eradicating the disease from the planet, or the fact that you refus
ed to take the immunization? You could look at it either way.
>
> There are a TON of benefits to using racing automotive silicone spark plug
s wires, and also automobile plugs. A HUGE downside is if you have an exist
ing radio that worked fine right up until the increase in noise came along.
So the person that has that happen personally, refuses to consider changing
the radio, but instead sits there and blames the spark plug wires and plugs
themselves, and then gets on this forum and says that the new wires and plu
gs offered no improvement in engine performance at all, and just increased n
oise. Folks, that is a poor soul guy venting his frustration and is NOT ac
curate information. I get it that someone went back to Russian wires and p
lugs. I get it that this made the radio noise go away. I get it that any
one would be frustrated with that whole experience! And if I was in that pe
rsons shoes and did the same thing, I might feel the same way.
>
> But FACTUALLY, automotive plugs are better than Russian M-14 engine plugs
. They are cheaper (by a huge amount). You have a SELECTION of heat range
s that allow you to tune the plugs to the engine. They are cheap enough to b
e consumable, as it is easier/cheaper/ more practical to purchase new ones t
han it is to buy a spark plug cleaner, and then go through re-gapping, press
ure testing, annealing the washers, etc. They are also easier to inspect an
d determine combustion temperature impacts, thus changing heat ranges.
>
> Wires: They are for the most part much more separated, thus reducing the c
hance of cross-firing. Changing one wire is a matter of minutes versus hour
s. The Russian wires have plug ends that need to be assembled. More spare p
arts required. Automotive wires are consumable. You don't fix them. You t
hrow them away, and AGAIN save time and money. The new wires and new plugs f
ire more consistently and have a much more reliable spark. This is most not
iced with improvements in idling RPM, thus also extending engine life, versu
s a mis-firing, rough running engine. The consistency also places less stra
in in the mag coil. With the plugs always being in a new condition, and cha
nged every year, starting becomes easier and more reliable. Less chance of r
unning out of air and being left in some hole with no high pressure air, and
then propping an M-14 for the first time in your life.
>
> But they do introduce some additional RF noise. If you have a radio that i
s highly susceptible to that (and I've seen a number of the Becker radios th
at are. Not *ALL* but some....) then you might not want to do this mod. I
f you are thinking about it, ask around to those that have your exact model o
f radio first and see how they are doing with it.
>
> The reason I am writing is to pass accurate information. This will bother
some people. To those that it does, I hope you will get over it.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 7:41 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Auto wiring issues
>
> The problem was never the plugs. It was the wiring harness. The original
rubber plug wire rubber deteriorates inside the braided shields. Once the d
eterioration starts the plug wire arcs to the braided shield (ground) and yo
u know what that does. A misfire. If one wants to retain the original harne
ss configuration, the only way to fix that problem is to pull a new wire thr
ough the wiring harness. If you've never done that before, I can tell you i
ts not a fun job especially if the new wire separates from the old wire whil
e pulling it through the harness. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.
>
>
> I'll let the people who have the automotive conversion kit comment on what
they found advantageous.
>
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Lancer <lrob4783@bigpond.net.au>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 4:22 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Auto wiring issues
>
>
>
> I have been flying a Nanchang for 13 years and never had to change 1 plug i
n all that time so I can't see the advantage. Can anyone say what the motiva
tion was to change theirs and what changes they noticed with the auto plugs a
nd leads.
>
> Thanks
>
> --------
> You can run but you can't hide
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455526#455526
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List>
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
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>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Auto wiring issues |
How bout that Trump, I bet he could make spark plugs great again. He would
make spark plugs WIN, and so great, they'd be terrific. His spark plugs
would be so Winning.......believe him, they would be the so winningest
spark plugs your heads would spin. Since all other spark plugs are the
worst ever! He would make a deal with spark plugs and make them pay for
themselves......Believe it.
On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 10:17 PM, Bill Geipel <l129bs@gmail.com> wrote:
> I knew the calm was to good to last.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Apr 28, 2016, at 10:53, Jon Blake <jblake207@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Well, for the record... And without calling others a liar, I have over 900
> hours on my current stock plugs in my stock 285HP CJ and they don't look
> like footballs yet. Installed them in 2005, rotate and clean at every
> annual. So I completely believe the man when he says he has 13 years on his
> plugs... In fact, I have no reason NOT to believe him.
>
> The airplane I owned before the CJ was a Mooney 201 with almost 1000 hours
> on one set of plugs and about 8 years. Additionally, I helped maintain that
> airplane after I sold it for an additional 2 years without installing new
> plugs. So plugs will last a long time if properly maintained, cleaned,
> gapped, rotated each year or 100 hours like on the Mooney.
>
> So now you've heard of two people going 13 and 11 years on a set of stock
> plugs...in radial engines. In a regularly flying airplane (CJ) and not a
> car sitting for 10 years. And before you make some statement about how I
> too must be telling an untruth, come on over and I'll show you the plugs,
> engine and maintenance records. I bought a set of new plugs from Jim Selby
> Sr. In 2006 and they still sit in the locker unused.
>
> The gentleman didn't imply that others should get 13 years out of their
> plugs... He simply stated that he's gotten 13 years and asked a question
> about the advantage of the auto plug conversion. He simply asked the WHY...
> So without belittling anyone, the real answer on a forum intended to inform
> and educate should have been... Well, in short, the answer Dennis provided.
>
> So Lancer, the answer to your question is this... Well, at least for me...
> I've been running my stock Chinese spark plugs for 11 years (~900 hours)
> with no issues...and plan to continue until they become unserviceable.
> Keep 'em clean and rotated. When you start having issues look at the wires
> first as Dennis suggests. I helped a friend change one p lead on his stock
> CJ engine and that solved his problem.
>
> Also for the record, if you drop ANY spark plug... Russian, Chinese or
> American (REM 38/40) toss it in the trash... For that matter...even if you
> drop a NGK plug on concrete toss it in the trash before you install in your
> airplane, motorcycle or even lawn mower. The ceramic coating around the
> electrode breaks and energy is lost once dropped and damaged. The only way
> to tell for certain is pressure testing if you have access to the
> equipment. When your plugs start looking like a football, or wont pass the
> pressure test or mag drop is too great...ask an A&P and follow his
> advice...or change them out... One way You can tell if the plugs/wires are
> not firing correctly is CHT or external temperature tester/probe.
>
> I'm not an aero or mechanical engineer, but I am an A&P... Many are
> correct when they say it's easier to simply replace the plugs each year at
> the annual, but that is also an expensive option...easy, but more
> expensive. In fact, I did just that when doing the annual condition
> inspection on a friend's CJ last fall.
>
> Hope this helps and encourages you.
>
> JB
>
> *Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID*
>
>
> "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
>
> mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> First. I have never in my entire lifetime heard of someone going 13
> years on one set of spark plugs. Let me take that back. I did park a car
> once and it sat 10 years, and then I junked it. It never had a plug change
> in 10 years either. But plugs do wear out, like anything else. 13 years
> is pretty much an amazing statement.
>
> My point is, that if you fly any Russian Radial what is considered a
> normal amount of hours each year, you are not going to get 13 years out of
> one set of plugs. Not on ANY spark plug on ANY engine! If the gent that
> said that wants to insist on it being accurate, so be it. But that would
> also imply that anyone who does NOT get 13 years out of their plugs must be
> doing something wrong. I change my NGK plugs EVERY YEAR! I do not wait
> for things to go bad in airplanes. I try to fix them before they get to
> the point where they are totally inoperative, or I am stuck somewhere with
> an engine that won't start, because that has happened to me, and I did not
> enjoy it.
>
> Which brings us to the statement: "If it ain't broke don't fix it".
> Well yes, to a certain degree, but ..... If my engine appears to be
> running good, should I not do a compression check during the Conditional?
> If my engine is running fine, should I never change the oil and run it for
> 13 years as well? No. And the writer was NOT implying that, but I had to
> mention it. But realize that if you run on the original wires and plugs a
> normal number of hours per year, they are going to fail, and hopefully when
> you are not far from home. Hopefully it will be a slight miss, and not a
> totally dead cylinder, or a dead TWO cylinders.
>
> I have a lot of experience with plug wires on M-14 engines. A LOT. I
> could go into the engineering design differences between solid wires with
> rubber insulation that have to be sealed in a metal tube to work (Faraday
> Shield) without tearing up electronics in every direction, compared to
> those used in every automobile engine made in modern times. Guess which
> ones work better? I put silicone racing wires in my M-14 as soon as they
> came out, right after I helped a friend do the same change on a Sukhoi
> SU-26 that belonged to a world renowned aerobatic pilot. I then observed
> better idling, easier starting, along with MASSIVELY CHEAPER spark plug
> changes. Anyone have the going price of a brand new Russian plug? How
> about 18 of them? Anyone ever read the articles on Chinese versus Russian
> plugs? (Which by the way are also unverified). Are people here aware of
> what can happen if you drop a Russian plug and then install it?
>
> Factually there is more RF noise escaping from modern plug wires than
> there is from ANY plug wire that is totally enclosed in a Faraday Shield,
> which is the original Russian design, because that is the technology that
> they had, and that is the technology that they used. But what also goes
> along with that fact is how susceptible the radio itself is to RF noise.
> In that regard, not all radios are created equal, just like not all spark
> plug wires are.
>
> Look at it this way. If you refuse to take immunizations, and you lead a
> healthy life for years and then catch some terrible disease, is it the
> fault of not eradicating the disease from the planet, or the fact that you
> refused to take the immunization? You could look at it either way.
>
> There are a TON of benefits to using racing automotive silicone spark
> plugs wires, and also automobile plugs. A HUGE downside is if you have an
> existing radio that worked fine right up until the increase in noise came
> along. So the person that has that happen personally, refuses to consider
> changing the radio, but instead sits there and blames the spark plug wires
> and plugs themselves, and then gets on this forum and says that the new
> wires and plugs offered no improvement in engine performance at all, and
> just increased noise. Folks, that is a poor soul guy venting his
> frustration and is NOT accurate information. I get it that someone went
> back to Russian wires and plugs. I get it that this made the radio noise
> go away. I get it that anyone would be frustrated with that whole
> experience! And if I was in that persons shoes and did the same thing, I
> might feel the same way.
>
> But FACTUALLY, automotive plugs are better than Russian M-14 engine
> plugs. They are cheaper (by a huge amount). You have a SELECTION of heat
> ranges that allow you to tune the plugs to the engine. They are cheap
> enough to be consumable, as it is easier/cheaper/ more practical to
> purchase new ones than it is to buy a spark plug cleaner, and then go
> through re-gapping, pressure testing, annealing the washers, etc. They are
> also easier to inspect and determine combustion temperature impacts, thus
> changing heat ranges.
>
> Wires: They are for the most part much more separated, thus reducing the
> chance of cross-firing. Changing one wire is a matter of minutes versus
> hours. The Russian wires have plug ends that need to be assembled. More
> spare parts required. Automotive wires are consumable. You don't fix
> them. You throw them away, and AGAIN save time and money. The new wires
> and new plugs fire more consistently and have a much more reliable spark.
> This is most noticed with improvements in idling RPM, thus also extending
> engine life, versus a mis-firing, rough running engine. The consistency
> also places less strain in the mag coil. With the plugs always being in a
> new condition, and changed every year, starting becomes easier and more
> reliable. Less chance of running out of air and being left in some hole
> with no high pressure air, and then propping an M-14 for the first time in
> your life.
>
> But they do introduce some additional RF noise. If you have a radio that
> is highly susceptible to that (and I've seen a number of the Becker radios
> that are. Not *ALL* but some....) then you might not want to do this
> mod. If you are thinking about it, ask around to those that have your
> exact model of radio first and see how they are doing with it.
>
> The reason I am writing is to pass accurate information. This will bother
> some people. To those that it does, I hope you will get over it.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 7:41 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Auto wiring issues
>
> The problem was never the plugs. It was the wiring harness. The original
> rubber plug wire rubber deteriorates inside the braided shields. Once the
> deterioration starts the plug wire arcs to the braided shield (ground) and
> you know what that does. A misfire. If one wants to retain the original
> harness configuration, the only way to fix that problem is to pull a new
> wire through the wiring harness. If you've never done that before, I can
> tell you its not a fun job especially if the new wire separates from the
> old wire while pulling it through the harness. Been there, done that, got
> the T-shirt.
>
>
> I'll let the people who have the automotive conversion kit comment on what
> they found advantageous.
>
>
> Dennis
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Lancer <lrob4783@bigpond.net.au>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 4:22 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Auto wiring issues
>
>
>
> I have been flying a Nanchang for 13 years and never had to change 1 plug
> in all that time so I can't see the advantage. Can anyone say what the
> motivation was to change theirs and what changes they noticed with the auto
> plugs and leads.
>
> Thanks
>
> --------
> You can run but you can't hide
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455526#455526
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List>
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
> http://www============================================================================================================================================================p;
> -Matt Dralle, Lis=====================================================
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Auto wiring issues |
Spot on, Mark!
About 10 years ago, I replaced the original Russian wiring harness with
the solution from Dennis.
I immediately had a much smoother running engine.
Two to three percent drops in stead of >5 what I always had, even with
brand-new very expensive Russian plugs.
But also more noise on my Russian radios.
So I changed the radio. I installed a Becker.
No noise problems at all.
Jan
On 27/04/16 21:36, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD"
<owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
><mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
>First. I have never in my entire lifetime heard of someone going 13
>years on one set of spark plugs. Let me take that back. I did park a
>car once and it sat 10 years, and then I junked it. It never had a plug
>change in 10 years either. But plugs do wear out, like anything else.
>13 years is pretty much an amazing statement.
>
>My point is, that if you fly any Russian Radial what is considered a
>normal amount of hours each year, you are not going to get 13 years out
>of one set of plugs. Not on ANY spark plug on ANY engine! If the gent
>that said that wants to insist on it being accurate, so be it. But that
>would also imply that anyone who does NOT get 13 years out of their plugs
>must be doing something wrong. I change my NGK plugs EVERY YEAR! I do
>not wait for things to go bad in airplanes. I try to fix them before
>they get to the point where they are totally inoperative, or I am stuck
>somewhere with an engine that won't start, because that has happened to
>me, and I did not enjoy it.
>
>Which brings us to the statement: "If it ain't broke don't fix it".
>Well yes, to a certain degree, but ..... If my engine appears to be
>running good, should I not do a compression check during the Conditional?
> If my engine is running fine, should I never change the oil and run it
>for 13 years as well? No. And the writer was NOT implying that, but I
>had to mention it. But realize that if you run on the original wires
>and plugs a normal number of hours per year, they are going to fail, and
>hopefully when you are not far from home. Hopefully it will be a slight
>miss, and not a totally dead cylinder, or a dead TWO cylinders.
>
>I have a lot of experience with plug wires on M-14 engines. A LOT. I
>could go into the engineering design differences between solid wires with
>rubber insulation that have to be sealed in a metal tube to work (Faraday
>Shield) without tearing up electronics in every direction, compared to
>those used in every automobile engine made in modern times. Guess which
>ones work better? I put silicone racing wires in my M-14 as soon as they
>came out, right after I helped a friend do the same change on a Sukhoi
>SU-26 that belonged to a world renowned aerobatic pilot. I then observed
>better idling, easier starting, along with MASSIVELY CHEAPER spark plug
>changes. Anyone have the going price of a brand new Russian plug? How
>about 18 of them? Anyone ever read the articles on Chinese versus
>Russian plugs? (Which by the way are also unverified). Are people here
>aware of what can happen if you drop a Russian plug and then install it?
>
>
>Factually there is more RF noise escaping from modern plug wires than
>there is from ANY plug wire that is totally enclosed in a Faraday Shield,
>which is the original Russian design, because that is the technology that
>they had, and that is the technology that they used. But what also goes
>along with that fact is how susceptible the radio itself is to RF noise.
>In that regard, not all radios are created equal, just like not all spark
>plug wires are.
>
>Look at it this way. If you refuse to take immunizations, and you lead
>a healthy life for years and then catch some terrible disease, is it the
>fault of not eradicating the disease from the planet, or the fact that
>you refused to take the immunization? You could look at it either way.
>
>There are a TON of benefits to using racing automotive silicone spark
>plugs wires, and also automobile plugs. A HUGE downside is if you have
>an existing radio that worked fine right up until the increase in noise
>came along. So the person that has that happen personally, refuses to
>consider changing the radio, but instead sits there and blames the spark
>plug wires and plugs themselves, and then gets on this forum and says
>that the new wires and plugs offered no improvement in engine performance
>at all, and just increased noise. Folks, that is a poor soul guy
>venting his frustration and is NOT accurate information. I get it that
>someone went back to Russian wires and plugs. I get it that this made
>the radio noise go away. I get it that anyone would be frustrated with
>that whole experience! And if I was in that persons shoes and did the
>same thing, I might feel the same way.
>
>But FACTUALLY, automotive plugs are better than Russian M-14 engine
>plugs. They are cheaper (by a huge amount). You have a SELECTION of
>heat ranges that allow you to tune the plugs to the engine. They are
>cheap enough to be consumable, as it is easier/cheaper/ more practical
>to purchase new ones than it is to buy a spark plug cleaner, and then go
>through re-gapping, pressure testing, annealing the washers, etc. They
>are also easier to inspect and determine combustion temperature impacts,
>thus changing heat ranges.
>
>Wires: They are for the most part much more separated, thus reducing the
>chance of cross-firing. Changing one wire is a matter of minutes versus
>hours. The Russian wires have plug ends that need to be assembled. More
>spare parts required. Automotive wires are consumable. You don't fix
>them. You throw them away, and AGAIN save time and money. The new wires
>and new plugs fire more consistently and have a much more reliable spark.
> This is most noticed with improvements in idling RPM, thus also
>extending engine life, versus a mis-firing, rough running engine. The
>consistency also places less strain in the mag coil. With the plugs
>always being in a new condition, and changed every year, starting becomes
>easier and more reliable. Less chance of running out of air and being
>left in some hole with no high pressure air, and then propping an M-14
>for the first time in your life.
>
>But they do introduce some additional RF noise. If you have a radio that
>is highly susceptible to that (and I've seen a number of the Becker
>radios that are. Not *ALL* but some....) then you might not want to do
>this mod. If you are thinking about it, ask around to those that have
>your exact model of radio first and see how they are doing with it.
>
>The reason I am writing is to pass accurate information. This will
>bother some people. To those that it does, I hope you will get over it.
>
>
>Mark Bitterlich
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
>Savarese
>Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 7:41 AM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Yak-List: Re: Auto wiring issues
>
>The problem was never the plugs. It was the wiring harness. The
>original rubber plug wire rubber deteriorates inside the braided shields.
> Once the deterioration starts the plug wire arcs to the braided shield
>(ground) and you know what that does. A misfire. If one wants to retain
>the original harness configuration, the only way to fix that problem is
>to pull a new wire through the wiring harness. If you've never done that
>before, I can tell you its not a fun job especially if the new wire
>separates from the old wire while pulling it through the harness. Been
>there, done that, got the T-shirt.
>
>
>I'll let the people who have the automotive conversion kit comment on
>what they found advantageous.
>
>
>Dennis
>
>
>________________________________
>
>From: Lancer <lrob4783@bigpond.net.au>
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 4:22 AM
>Subject: Yak-List: Re: Auto wiring issues
>
>
>
>I have been flying a Nanchang for 13 years and never had to change 1 plug
>in all that time so I can't see the advantage. Can anyone say what the
>motivation was to change theirs and what changes they noticed with the
>auto plugs and leads.
>
>Thanks
>
>--------
>You can run but you can't hide
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=455526#455526
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List>
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
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