Today's Message Index:
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1. 06:47 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] M-14P for sale (Curt_B)
2. 10:23 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: M-14P for sale (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
3. 10:31 AM - Re: Re: M-14P for sale (John Warwick)
4. 01:53 PM - Re: M-14P for sale (Curt_B)
5. 02:28 PM - Re: Re: M-14P for sale (Todd McCutchan)
6. 02:34 PM - Re: M-14P for sale (Curt_B)
7. 06:36 PM - Re: M14 engine sale (Frank Stelwagon)
8. 06:52 PM - Re: Re: M14 engine sale (Robert Graves)
9. 09:33 PM - Re: M14 engine sale (Curt_B)
10. 11:04 PM - Official Yak-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
11. 11:09 PM - Official Yak-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: [Non-DoD Source] M-14P for sale |
This is not my ad and these are fantastic engines. Please refer to
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=16762702
for discussion and replies and ignore this thread that should be deleted. Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457587#457587
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: M-14P for sale |
Curt,
I am starting to honestly believe you are talking about me. If you are, I never
"hijacked your add". You posted an engine for sale with an oil leak.
I asked where the oil leak was. In a later message I said it was important to
know that, as an oil leak it could be from a rod broken poking through a hole
in the block, hence an oil leak. That was what is called a "tongue in cheek"
statement. In the off chance that someone would think I was serious, I then
posted in another message that what I said was meant as humor.
So if in fact you are referring to that thread, get over it dude. On this list
people who have been here for DECADES know each other and occasional joke around.
It is called having fun. It was not meant to be having fun AT YOUR EXPENSE!
Bottom line, you put an engine up for sale, and mentioned "pulled for an oil leak"
and left it at that. You eventually mention that it was an oil leak from
a Supercharger section due to studs failing under load as determined by a metallurgist.
Good for you.
I have no doubt of your honesty, I have no doubt the engine can be repaired, but
candidly, the repair effort requires more than fixing what initially was just
"an oil leak". It now means replacing all the studs on the supercharger section
and reassembling the engine. In most cases this means a repair center,
or a very good mechanic. With that level of effort, personally I would just use
the engine as a core and have it totally overhauled, but that is just me.
No need to refer to me as "that guy". My name is Mark Bitterlich, I never posted
a "duplicate" and I never said these engines are bad and throw rods. However,
if you want to discuss that subject, the fact is that these engines DO THROW
RODS, normally after a hydraulic lock where they get BENT when someone tries
to start one without first getting the oil out. It has happened MANY MANY times.
Anyone with an radial engine knows about this ... or should. And ....
they create a heck of an oil leak. Hence the joke.
I have no problem with you selling your engine here, and I hope you find an interested
buyer. But since I have not seen you on this list before a few weeks
ago, you might consider not putting words in people's mouths, and then complaining
about things they never said.
Again, I am personally sorry for getting your feathers in an uproar, now please
move on and sell your engine ... which by the way I was interested in, but not
anymore. And yes, I think the world of these engines too, which anyone who
knows me realized decades ago.
r/s,
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Curt_B
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 2:29 AM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Re: M-14P for sale
Some joker hijacked my ad by posting a duplicate with the same title claiming that
these engines are bad and throw rods. Not to mention sabotaging my effort
to find a good place for this engine that I have for sale. Never met the guy,
have no idea what he has against these engines, so please religate him to the
trash pile. I've operated two of these engines now and have nothing but praise
for them.
I responded to a legitimate question on his counterfeit post that anyone interested
would like to see answered here. So I've copied the question, and response
here.
The leak is between the blower and the power section. A couple of studs wouldn't
take torque. Pulled the engine to replace the studs and found a zero time one
in the meantime. Our metallurgist said the studs failed in fatigue.
Q: Fatigue or over torqued?
Yes, it is an outstanding engine.
R: Fatigued. The metallurgist showed the striation propagation, crack growth,
typical of fatigue. The stud elongation caused it to lose torque. When I went
to re-torque to stop the oil leak, the remaining 5-10 percent of the intact cross
sectional area failed. Looked at the break, didn't see the tattletale 45 deg
fracture typical of torsion failure and asked the metallurgist. He said the
fatigue occurred over a significant amount of time. Thanks.
Why are these clowns around on here, causing extra effort for a simple ad.
Do Y'all have an avenue to filter these trouble makers out.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457577#457577
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: M-14P for sale |
Like
On Friday, July 1, 2016, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
> mark.bitterlich@navy.mil <javascript:;>>
>
> Curt,
>
> I am starting to honestly believe you are talking about me. If you are,
> I never "hijacked your add". You posted an engine for sale with an oil
> leak. I asked where the oil leak was. In a later message I said it was
> important to know that, as an oil leak it could be from a rod broken poking
> through a hole in the block, hence an oil leak. That was what is called a
> "tongue in cheek" statement. In the off chance that someone would think I
> was serious, I then posted in another message that what I said was meant as
> humor.
>
> So if in fact you are referring to that thread, get over it dude. On this
> list people who have been here for DECADES know each other and occasional
> joke around. It is called having fun. It was not meant to be having fun
> AT YOUR EXPENSE!
>
> Bottom line, you put an engine up for sale, and mentioned "pulled for an
> oil leak" and left it at that. You eventually mention that it was an oil
> leak from a Supercharger section due to studs failing under load as
> determined by a metallurgist. Good for you.
>
> I have no doubt of your honesty, I have no doubt the engine can be
> repaired, but candidly, the repair effort requires more than fixing what
> initially was just "an oil leak". It now means replacing all the studs on
> the supercharger section and reassembling the engine. In most cases this
> means a repair center, or a very good mechanic. With that level of effort,
> personally I would just use the engine as a core and have it totally
> overhauled, but that is just me.
>
> No need to refer to me as "that guy". My name is Mark Bitterlich, I never
> posted a "duplicate" and I never said these engines are bad and throw
> rods. However, if you want to discuss that subject, the fact is that these
> engines DO THROW RODS, normally after a hydraulic lock where they get BENT
> when someone tries to start one without first getting the oil out. It has
> happened MANY MANY times. Anyone with an radial engine knows about this
> ... or should. And .... they create a heck of an oil leak. Hence the
> joke.
>
> I have no problem with you selling your engine here, and I hope you find
> an interested buyer. But since I have not seen you on this list before a
> few weeks ago, you might consider not putting words in people's mouths, and
> then complaining about things they never said.
>
> Again, I am personally sorry for getting your feathers in an uproar, now
> please move on and sell your engine ... which by the way I was interested
> in, but not anymore. And yes, I think the world of these engines too,
> which anyone who knows me realized decades ago.
>
> r/s,
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com <javascript:;> [mailto:
> owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Curt_B
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 2:29 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com <javascript:;>
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Re: M-14P for sale
>
> <javascript:;>>
>
> Some joker hijacked my ad by posting a duplicate with the same title
> claiming that these engines are bad and throw rods. Not to mention
> sabotaging my effort to find a good place for this engine that I have for
> sale. Never met the guy, have no idea what he has against these engines,
> so please religate him to the trash pile. I've operated two of these
> engines now and have nothing but praise for them.
>
> I responded to a legitimate question on his counterfeit post that anyone
> interested would like to see answered here. So I've copied the question,
> and response here.
>
> The leak is between the blower and the power section. A couple of studs
> wouldn't take torque. Pulled the engine to replace the studs and found a
> zero time one in the meantime. Our metallurgist said the studs failed in
> fatigue.
>
> Q: Fatigue or over torqued?
> Yes, it is an outstanding engine.
>
> R: Fatigued. The metallurgist showed the striation propagation, crack
> growth, typical of fatigue. The stud elongation caused it to lose torque.
> When I went to re-torque to stop the oil leak, the remaining 5-10 percent
> of the intact cross sectional area failed. Looked at the break, didn't see
> the tattletale 45 deg fracture typical of torsion failure and asked the
> metallurgist. He said the fatigue occurred over a significant amount of
> time. Thanks.
>
> Why are these clowns around on here, causing extra effort for a simple ad.
> Do Y'all have an avenue to filter these trouble makers out.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457577#457577
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: M-14P for sale |
Geez, now this guy's on my post claiming this engine's a core, sight unseen. Can
someone tell me how to delete this ad so no one is unduly influenced by this
guy's remarks while I try to sell it elsewhere? It's obvious that no one will
be interested in it now. Thanks. Sorry about that, was hoping some hands-on
kid would see this as an economical way to move up a level.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457609#457609
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: M-14P for sale |
No one is hijacking your ad. Mark is a long time poster and is invariably ve
ry helpful to those needing it. He gave you his opinion; that's all.
This is a message board / email list. The original message is often included
in replies.
The clarification on why the engine was leaking is helpful.
As a suggestion you may also want to include things like last compression ch
eck, total hours, hours since major overhaul, and hours since top overhaul, s
torage condition, location, and price.
I believe you would need to log into the web version of this in order to del
ete your post but I am not sure that is even possible.
Good luck on the sale. I'm sure this has all just been a misunderstanding.
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd@fastaircraft.com
www.fastaircraft.com
> On Jul 1, 2016, at 1:52 PM, Curt_B <cbbur@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> Geez, now this guy's on my post claiming this engine's a core, sight unsee
n. Can someone tell me how to delete this ad so no one is unduly influenced
by this guy's remarks while I try to sell it elsewhere? It's obvious that n
o one will be interested in it now. Thanks. Sorry about that, was hoping s
ome hands-on kid would see this as an economical way to move up a level.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457609#457609
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: M-14P for sale |
All the same, I'd like this thread deleted. Thanks, Curt
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457613#457613
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: M14 engine sale |
Every engine that is removed can be considered a core. Some removed
engines sit around for a long time, should be rebuilt. Some are removed
for reasons that require major work-a core. There is nothing wrong with
the term core, it is an engine that the new owner will have to make a
decision on usage, install as is, rebuild totally or do a top. It is
just a piece of mechanical material that requires a choice be made.
Frank
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: M14 engine sale |
Girls, let it go!
GiddyUp,
Bob
On Jul 1, 2016, at 9:30 PM, "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon@earthlink.net> wr
ote:
> Every engine that is removed can be considered a core. Some removed engine
s sit around for a long time, should be rebuilt. Some are removed for reason
s that require major work-a core. There is nothing wrong with the term core
, it is an engine that the new owner will have to make a decision on usage, i
nstall as is, rebuild totally or do a top. It is just a piece of mechanical
material that requires a choice be made.
>
> Frank
==========================
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: M14 engine sale |
This is just getting creepy now with these side posts. Regardless of yourselves,
this engine and the Yak-52 are marvels of engineering that even simple minded
people, like myself, can maintain. I must say though, if I knew about this
group before I bought my airplane, I would have run far away. Y'all are hurting
value.
For example, an encouraging and supportive enthusiast's group would be excited
about an ad from an outsider, fresh meat, and say things like, 'an oil leak?,
oh the blower case, you can convert to a PF while you're in there', are the bearings
tight?, how was it preserved, oh, you'll pull a jug for inspection before
sale?'
I'm saying this sincerely, because I know we all love these Russian products, and
would hope we want others to experience what we experience. I also want to
understand that we all mean well, even those that are misunderstood.
I have no hard feelings for any of you guys, the world is what it is. But for
your own sake, you might open up to outsiders a little to encourage a broader
market, and not keep to yourselves. Best Regards P.S. if anybody can delete
this multi-post mess, please do, the original ad included. Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457625#457625
Message 10
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The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Yak-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Yak-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Yak-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Yak-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Yak-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Yak-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Yak-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Yak-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Yak-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Yak-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Yak
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Yak-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Yak-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Yak-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Yak-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Yak-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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| Subject: | Official Yak-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Yak-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Yak-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Yak-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Yak-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Yak-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Yak-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Yak-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Yak-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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