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1. 09:29 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: M14 engine sale (Re: Thread Hi-Jacking) (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)
2. 05:27 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: M14 engine sale (Re: Thread Hi-Jacking) (cjpilot710@aol.com)
3. 07:09 PM - [Non-DoD Source] M14 engine sale (Re: Thread Hi-Jacking (727gs)
4. 10:09 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] M14 engine sale (Re: Thread Hi-Jacking& gear hand (cjpilot710@aol.com)
5. 10:47 PM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] M14 engine sale (Re: Thread Hi-Jacking (Ernest Martinez)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: M14 engine sale (re: Thread Hi-Jacking) |
Thanks to the folks who were nice enough to try to explain to Curt that my intentions
were honorable, I very much appreciate it. I'm sorry that those folks
strike you as "Creepy" Curt.
Some people, especially in most recent memory, immigrate to the United States and
Europe (and elsewhere) and when they get there expect those countries to conform
to their way of doing things. In some cases they want to implement their
own set of laws, and they go so far as to say it is because of their religion,
of which I have no doubt. When they don't get their way, they either pout,
yell or scream, make accusations against the very people that host them, and
in the end can even go so far as to get violent. Point of fact, they do not come
to a place and try to assimilate, they come to a place and complain if it
is not to their liking, and just the same as the place they just came from.
Curt, so far you have managed to denigrate four long time members of this list,
and have cast your own personal doubts on the whole group in toto, and let me
please point out that the Yak-List is worldwide in scope and membership. So
far ignoring it has not seemed to work. Apologizing has not seemed to work.
So I will try one last time to explain it, and then you can either be part of
the group, or not.
The main Raison d'tre for this list is simply to help other people with their airplanes,
typically Yak's or CJ-6's, and even the occasional Sukhoi! It wasn't
put here to help sell your engine or your airplane although such activity is
permitted as long as it does not interfere with the primary goals. It is sponsored
by the Matronics List Server, owned by Matt Dralle and his funding comes
both from out of his own pocket, and by donations from membership. I have
contributed money to be able to help people like yourself. In this case, a true
oxymoron.
The best thing for any new member of any list to do is to look back over the archives,
figure out how it operates, watch/look/listen and ask questions. Regardless
of history to date, no person here wishes you to leave, and I personally
am sorry that you have been so "offended" that you feel that you would have
never purchased your airplane if you had known about this list. That said, your
opinion is not shared by anyone else that I know of, and we have all learned
through the experiences of others much as I am sure you can, should you decide
to hang around.
FYI, there is nothing BUT "multi-posts" on this list. The thread oftentimes morphs
into totally new topics, some serious, some not. While not exactly the best
in "net etiquette" it is a case of "When in Rome do as the Romans do".
All of us offer individual bits of experience, some of us from professional association,
and others simply by owning and operating the product. I *KNOW* we
all wish to welcome you to the list and offer you the sum of all of our knowledge
and experience. In other words "Welcome Aboard" and congratulations on
purchasing a wonderful aircraft.
Mark Bitterlich
p.s. Apologies to Robert Graves. You are correct.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Curt_B
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 12:32 AM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Re: M14 engine sale
This is just getting creepy now with these side posts. Regardless of yourselves,
this engine and the Yak-52 are marvels of engineering that even simple minded
people, like myself, can maintain. I must say though, if I knew about this
group before I bought my airplane, I would have run far away. Y'all are hurting
value.
For example, an encouraging and supportive enthusiast's group would be excited
about an ad from an outsider, fresh meat, and say things like, 'an oil leak?,
oh the blower case, you can convert to a PF while you're in there', are the bearings
tight?, how was it preserved, oh, you'll pull a jug for inspection before
sale?'
I'm saying this sincerely, because I know we all love these Russian products, and
would hope we want others to experience what we experience. I also want to
understand that we all mean well, even those that are misunderstood.
I have no hard feelings for any of you guys, the world is what it is. But for
your own sake, you might open up to outsiders a little to encourage a broader
market, and not keep to yourselves. Best Regards P.S. if anybody can delete
this multi-post mess, please do, the original ad included. Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457625#457625
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: M14 engine sale (re: Thread Hi-Jacking) |
Well said Mark.
Now maybe we can straighten Curt out, as to the proper use MMO. ;-)
(BTW I hear its good for nightly facials) :-]
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 7/5/2016 4:30:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil writes:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Thanks to the folks who were nice enough to try to explain to Curt that
my
intentions were honorable, I very much appreciate it. I'm sorry that
those folks strike you as "Creepy" Curt.
Some people, especially in most recent memory, immigrate to the United
States and Europe (and elsewhere) and when they get there expect those
countries to conform to their way of doing things. In some cases they wa
nt to
implement their own set of laws, and they go so far as to say it is becau
se of
their religion, of which I have no doubt. When they don't get their way,
they either pout, yell or scream, make accusations against the very peopl
e
that host them, and in the end can even go so far as to get violent. Poi
nt
of fact, they do not come to a place and try to assimilate, they come to
a
place and complain if it is not to their liking, and just the same as the
place they just came from. Curt, so far you have managed to denigrate
four long time members of this list, and have cast your own personal doub
ts on
the whole group in toto, and let me please point out that the Yak-List is
worldwide in scope and membership. So far ignoring it has not seemed to
work. Apologizing has not seemed to work. So I will try one last time
to
explain it, and then you can either be part of the group, or not.
The main Raison d'=EAtre for this list is simply to help other people wit
h
their airplanes, typically Yak's or CJ-6's, and even the occasional Sukho
i!
It wasn't put here to help sell your engine or your airplane although
such activity is permitted as long as it does not interfere with the prim
ary
goals. It is sponsored by the Matronics List Server, owned by Matt Drall
e
and his funding comes both from out of his own pocket, and by donations
from
membership. I have contributed money to be able to help people like
yourself. In this case, a true oxymoron.
The best thing for any new member of any list to do is to look back over
the archives, figure out how it operates, watch/look/listen and ask
questions. Regardless of history to date, no person here wishes you to
leave, and
I personally am sorry that you have been so "offended" that you feel that
you would have never purchased your airplane if you had known about this
list. That said, your opinion is not shared by anyone else that I know
of,
and we have all learned through the experiences of others much as I am su
re
you can, should you decide to hang around.
FYI, there is nothing BUT "multi-posts" on this list. The thread
oftentimes morphs into totally new topics, some serious, some not. While
not
exactly the best in "net etiquette" it is a case of "When in Rome do as
the
Romans do".
All of us offer individual bits of experience, some of us from
professional association, and others simply by owning and operating the
product. I
*KNOW* we all wish to welcome you to the list and offer you the sum of
all
of our knowledge and experience. In other words "Welcome Aboard" and
congratulations on purchasing a wonderful aircraft.
Mark Bitterlich
p.s. Apologies to Robert Graves. You are correct.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Curt_B
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 12:32 AM
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Yak-List: Re: M14 engine sale
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Curt_B" <cbbur@earthlink.net>
This is just getting creepy now with these side posts. Regardless of
yourselves, this engine and the Yak-52 are marvels of engineering that ev
en
simple minded people, like myself, can maintain. I must say though, if
I knew
about this group before I bought my airplane, I would have run far away.
Y'all are hurting value.
For example, an encouraging and supportive enthusiast's group would be
excited about an ad from an outsider, fresh meat, and say things like, 'a
n oil
leak?, oh the blower case, you can convert to a PF while you're in there'
,
are the bearings tight?, how was it preserved, oh, you'll pull a jug for
inspection before sale?'
I'm saying this sincerely, because I know we all love these Russian
products, and would hope we want others to experience what we experience.
I also
want to understand that we all mean well, even those that are
misunderstood.
I have no hard feelings for any of you guys, the world is what it is. Bu
t
for your own sake, you might open up to outsiders a little to encourage
a
broader market, and not keep to yourselves. Best Regards P.S. if anybod
y
can delete this multi-post mess, please do, the original ad included.
Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457625#457625
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Message 3
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| Subject: | [Non-DoD Source] M14 engine sale (re: Thread Hi-Jacking |
Folks,
I gotta say, I'm kinda with Curt on this one. Some of you folks on this list can
come off as pretty pompous. When I first got on the list when trying to get
my CJ flying, I didn't get a lot of help, mostly preaching except for one or two
pretty helpful guys who were extremely generous with their time off list. Then,
when I foolishly asked about putting the gear handle in the neutral position,
the fun really started. Statements like "Ludicrous" and "You didn't know
how the system works" came flying back at me. Pretty strong language for a self-identified
newby asking for help as politely as I could think how. When I said
that some of the airplanes I fly at work had a neutral position, someone thought
it appropriate to point out that new Boeings don't any more. Kind of pissy,
I thought, but I needed the help.
If you guys want this group to grow, my suggestion would be to give some thought
to how your "advice" sounds from the other side. I can certainly see why Curt
was getting frustrated and why he vented his displeasure. Instead of a six paragraph
rambling response invoking immigration, Mr. Dralle, the history of the
archives, and Rome, perhaps a 'Sorry, didn't mean it that way" would have worked
better. That was the most convoluted near-apology I have ever read.
I've watched this go on in almost every forum, aircraft or otherwise, I've been
involved with and it is counter-productive. It always eventually dwindles down
to four or five guys spouting off their political views.
If he's was the only one talking like this, you could write that off as one disgruntled
person. He isn't. Every time someone gets pissed and leaves, everyone
loses.
"Straighten Curt out"? Really?
BTW, I ran into a couple of former Chinese military pilots last time I was at Langley.
I asked them about the gear handle. They said that SOP was to use the
neutral position after the gear came up. Couldn't tell me why, though.
Steve Jones
CJ-6a near Chicago
--------
Steve near Chicago
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457767#457767
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: [Non-DoD Source] M14 engine sale (re: Thread Hi-Jacking& |
gear hand
"pretty Pompous" I don't think so. What everybody on any internet should
remember that human communication is 90% visual (According to psychologist
and others who stare at humans) A raised eyebrow and slight twist of the
mouth means a total difference with the same words if there is a wrinkle
between the eyebrows. How can you express that in text? And how many of you
have seen a person talking on a phone using their hands to express
something? PhDs have been earned on that science so, lets leave it at that.
Now for the gear handle. Up or Neutral?- that is the question. I say it
don't matter UNLESS your CJ does not have up locks. And yes some CJs do
not have up locks. I've owned mine 22 years now. I got it right off the
boat from China and it had no up locks on it. I thought that was normal until
I got to know other airplanes. And we can and usually do here on the list
get into discussion on the pros and cons of where the gear handle should
go.
Some people like to point to "SOP"s as the proper and correct way to
operate an airplane. And I can point to a number of crash investigations where
following SOPs killed people, in some cases friends of mine. Shit happens
in 54 years of flying.
But the SOP of the CJ gear handle most likely will not lead to fatality.
If you analyzes the system, you do not need up locks IF you keep the gear
handle up all the time. If you put the gear neutral with - no up locks -
the pressure on the up side of the gear actuator will bleed off and the gear
will fall down. Why the Chinese wanted to put the handle in neutral _ I
don't know, because if you follow SOP before putting the gear down, you're
suppose to go from neutral to UP and than down. What you're doing is making
sure the UP side of the actuator is pressurized so that the gear does not
slam down, when you go to the down position.
Some folks like to point out that putting the handle in neutral save ware
on the seals. Actually seal ware only happens when the actuator piston
(thus the seals) is moving. Once the piston stops moving, the seals are - -
sealing.
Then there is the argument that it eases up the work load on the
compressor. I don't see that on this system. Because the pressure regulator
is
going to maintain the same pressure by either dumping it or by venting it into
the system.
In the years that I've owned a CJ I've only heard ONE time where going from
neutral direct to down made a difference - and that story is best told by
B.J. "Snookums" Kennamore. (who followed SOPs BTW).
Besides the attributes of MMO, this subject should will most likely rise
some comments (I say with smirking grin and joyful gleam in my eyes)
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 7/5/2016 10:10:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
727gs@att.net writes:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "727gs" <727gs@att.net>
Folks,
I gotta say, I'm kinda with Curt on this one. Some of you folks on this
list can come off as pretty pompous. When I first got on the list when trying
to get my CJ flying, I didn't get a lot of help, mostly preaching except
for one or two pretty helpful guys who were extremely generous with their
time off list. Then, when I foolishly asked about putting the gear handle in
the neutral position, the fun really started. Statements like "Ludicrous"
and "You didn't know how the system works" came flying back at me. Pretty
strong language for a self-identified newby asking for help as politely as I
could think how. When I said that some of the airplanes I fly at work had a
neutral position, someone thought it appropriate to point out that new
Boeings don't any more. Kind of pissy, I thought, but I needed the help.
If you guys want this group to grow, my suggestion would be to give some
thought to how your "advice" sounds from the other side. I can certainly see
why Curt was getting frustrated and why he vented his displeasure. Instead
of a six paragraph rambling response invoking immigration, Mr. Dralle, the
history of the archives, and Rome, perhaps a 'Sorry, didn't mean it that
way" would have worked better. That was the most convoluted near-apology I
have ever read.
I've watched this go on in almost every forum, aircraft or otherwise, I've
been involved with and it is counter-productive. It always eventually
dwindles down to four or five guys spouting off their political views.
If he's was the only one talking like this, you could write that off as
one disgruntled person. He isn't. Every time someone gets pissed and leaves,
everyone loses.
"Straighten Curt out"? Really?
BTW, I ran into a couple of former Chinese military pilots last time I was
at Langley. I asked them about the gear handle. They said that SOP was to
use the neutral position after the gear came up. Couldn't tell me why,
though.
Steve Jones
CJ-6a near Chicago
--------
Steve near Chicago
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457767#457767
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: [Non-DoD Source] M14 engine sale (re: Thread Hi-Jacking |
Just when I thought the horse stopped breathing.......
On Tuesday, July 5, 2016, 727gs <727gs@att.net> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I gotta say, I'm kinda with Curt on this one. Some of you folks on this
> list can come off as pretty pompous. When I first got on the list when
> trying to get my CJ flying, I didn't get a lot of help, mostly preaching
> except for one or two pretty helpful guys who were extremely generous with
> their time off list. Then, when I foolishly asked about putting the gear
> handle in the neutral position, the fun really started. Statements like
> "Ludicrous" and "You didn't know how the system works" came flying back at
> me. Pretty strong language for a self-identified newby asking for help as
> politely as I could think how. When I said that some of the airplanes I fly
> at work had a neutral position, someone thought it appropriate to point out
> that new Boeings don't any more. Kind of pissy, I thought, but I needed the
> help.
>
> If you guys want this group to grow, my suggestion would be to give some
> thought to how your "advice" sounds from the other side. I can certainly
> see why Curt was getting frustrated and why he vented his displeasure.
> Instead of a six paragraph rambling response invoking immigration, Mr.
> Dralle, the history of the archives, and Rome, perhaps a 'Sorry, didn't
> mean it that way" would have worked better. That was the most convoluted
> near-apology I have ever read.
>
> I've watched this go on in almost every forum, aircraft or otherwise, I've
> been involved with and it is counter-productive. It always eventually
> dwindles down to four or five guys spouting off their political views.
>
> If he's was the only one talking like this, you could write that off as
> one disgruntled person. He isn't. Every time someone gets pissed and
> leaves, everyone loses.
>
> "Straighten Curt out"? Really?
>
> BTW, I ran into a couple of former Chinese military pilots last time I was
> at Langley. I asked them about the gear handle. They said that SOP was to
> use the neutral position after the gear came up. Couldn't tell me why,
> though.
>
> Steve Jones
> CJ-6a near Chicago
>
> --------
> Steve near Chicago
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457767#457767
>
>
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