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1. 07:13 AM - Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Multigrade oils (Mark Davis)
2. 11:33 AM - Re: Phillips 25W-60 converting to Shell W100Plus (Roger Kemp)
Message 1
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Whatever the proper term is, I'm sure the one I used was the wrong one.
Must be the 100+ degree heat out here in Kansas and lack of proper hydration
with adult beverages. Next time I'm sticking with more technical terms like
"doo-hickey"! : )
Mark Davis
N44YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV NAVAIR, WD
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 8:09 PM
Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Multigrade oils
--> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Then it is likely that you have this device in your oil cooler. :-)
Mark
p.s. Screw the term, I got your meaning.
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] on behalf of Mark Davis
[markdavis@wbsnet.org]
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Multigrade oils
Mark, maybe I used the wrong term, but the oil temp comes up into band and
then drops out of band low the first time it opens. It doesn't appear to be
gradual at all. It typically happens during engine run up. It's noticeable
and I wait for it to open and warm back up before I add takeoff power. I
use a restrictor plate on the oil cooler inlet for cold weather. Once the
initial slug of cold oil is circulated the oil temp stays stable as
regulated by air flow over the cylinders and through the oil cooler.
Mark Davis
N44YK
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 20, 2016, at 7:11 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
>
> --> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Mark, you used the term "thermister" when I think you meant something
called a "veritherm". Are you sure your oil cooler actually has one? It is
pretty easy to tell on a regular day with normal temps. Watch your oil
temp. As the engine runs during your warmup, does the oil temp climb slowly
into the green?
>
>
> Or does it sit there with oil temps all the way to the left, and then ...
more or less... climb quickly into the green, and then DROP back down into
the yellow? If the former, you have no veritherm in the oil cooler. If the
latter, you probably do.
>
>
> A lot has been said about pre-heating the engine, and NOT pre-heating the
oil cooler. Without a veritherm, the consensus is that when you start the
engine, even with pre-heated oil in the oil tank, and even with a pre-heated
sump, there is the possibility of a big slug of cold oil sitting in the oil
cooler and then being pumped into the engine. Lots of "oh crap" stories
ensue. I have no knowledge of this happen, but several folks swear that it
has, so there you go.
>
>
> With the veriterm installed in the oil cooler, oil is BY-PASSED past the
oil cooler. No big slug of cold oil. As the oil temp comes up, the
veritherm opens... SLOWLY and that slug of cold oil is more or less
"carefully" added to the warm oil already in the engine. Exactly as your
thermostat in your car works. I mean EXACTLY.
>
>
> So it is kind of important to know whether your oil cooler has a a
veritherm (thermostate) or not.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
> p.s. Most 50's, 52's and 55's, and Sukes, came without one.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] on behalf of Mark Davis
> [markdavis@wbsnet.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 10:49 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] RE: Yak-List: Multigrade oils
>
> Thanks Richard. I always appreciate your time to answer questions!
>
> Mark Davis
> N44YK
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
> Goode
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 4:21 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Multigrade oils
>
> Russian say that any start below +5C should have a degree of preheat.
>
> I understand your concern about the fuel, but my gut feeling is that it is
not a serious concern. Firstly, I don't think that the fuel is going to
expand significantly, but if you are concerned, it would be easy to put a
small plastic tube onto the tank overflow and guide any fuel well away from
the heat.
>
> I understand your issue about the oil cooler, but again if you heat cooler
and engine and oil tank, and your ambient temperature is at least minus 5C,
then I'm sure you won't have a problem. Anything much below that, then I
think you need to have the aircraft in a hangar to do the job properly.
However, I have seen Russians starting these engines at -25C (and outside!),
but using big hot air burners, so they clearly are not worried about fire!
>
> I don't know what Shell themselves recommend, but personally I would go to
120 at over 30 C ambient.
>
> I have never heard of anyone in Europe using MMO, which is not to say it
doesn't work!
>
> Richard Goode Aerobatics
> Rhodds Farm
> Lyonshall
> Hereford
> HR5 3LW
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
> www.russianaeros.com<http://www.russianaeros.com/<http://www.russianae
> ros.com%3chttp//www.russianaeros.com/>>
>
> From:
> owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matro
> nics.com> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Mark Davis
> Sent: 19 July 2016 21:57
> To: yak-list@matronics.com<mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Multigrade oils
>
> Richard,
> My YAK is in an unheated hangar and I do occasionally fly in temps as
low at 35 degrees. Engine heat is easy at home base, but warming the oil
cooler excessively concerns me as some of the heat will rise up into the
fuel tank area and potentially cause expansion on a full tank of cold fuel
which could lead to venting, putting fuel near the electric heat source.
I've been told that straight weight oils can cause issues when the
thermister opens the first time and the engine tries to push the cold oil to
the engine. Any comments on that? Also, what is your general guideline
temperature on when to switch from 100 to 120 Aeroshell? I really would
prefer to be running the straight weight oils, but have avoided them as I
occasionally take my YAK to Colorado up in the mountains where overnight
temperatures can drop below freezing in the spring and fall. Less leaks
would be nice.
>
> As to Jill's comment on adding MMO to Phillips XC 25W60, I had exhaust
valve issues three years in a row, one resulting in replacing a jug while
running straight XC 25W60. Jill suggested adding MMO to the Phillips and I
haven't had an issue since beginning that practice five years ago. As they
say, you mileage may vary.
>
> Mark Davis
> N44YK
>
>
> From:
> owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matro
> nics.com> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Richard Goode
> Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 9:49 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com<mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Multigrade oils
>
> These engines were never designed to use oils that are as thin as the
multigrades, which is why they do leak oil when multigrade are used. Also,
the advantages are relatively small, unless you are operating in very cold
temperatures, when, in any case you should pre-heat. But, compared to
automotive use, cold starts are relatively infrequent.
>
> Another issue that is often ignored is that these engines can corrode
badly (particularly in the cylinders) if left without being run frequently.
Indeed the official Russian documentation says that the engines should have
short-term conservation if not used every week! From this point of view, as
someone else has remarked, Aeroshell plus is very good because it has
specific anti-corrosion additives.
>
> Richard Goode Aerobatics
> Rhodds Farm
> Lyonshall
> Hereford
> HR5 3LW
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
> www.russianaeros.com<http://www.russianaeros.com/<http://www.russianae
> ros.com%3chttp//www.russianaeros.com/>>
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by
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> clean.
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Phillips 25W-60 converting to Shell W100Plus |
It's all those loose nuts.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 18, 2016, at 11:49 PM, cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
> I've always used W100 or W120. Each time I've used 25W60, I get oil lea
ks. And it seem to come from every where on the engine. I do not know
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
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