Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:38 AM - Hard Starting CJ (JL2A)
2. 05:15 AM - Re: Hard Starting CJ (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 07:53 AM - Engine Question (DaBear@damned.org)
4. 08:16 AM - Re: Engine Question (Hans Oortman)
5. 08:32 AM - Re: Engine Question (DaBear@damned.org)
6. 09:33 AM - Re: Engine Question (Walter Lannon)
7. 09:46 AM - Re: Engine Question (George S. Coy)
8. 10:19 AM - Re: Engine Question (Hans Oortman)
9. 06:58 PM - Re: Hard Starting CJ (Justin Drafts)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Hard Starting CJ |
We have operated 6 different HS6As over the years and this one is by far the hardest
to start, when ambient temperatures are below 15C or so
Primer: the little 'atomizer' on supercharger inlet may be blocked/missing
Shower of sparks: it works, at least, as with magnetos at 0 the engine will still
fire. Could it be weak though? In need of overhaul perhaps?
Carb: I don't know?! My instincts are it is not this as once it is running and
warm everything is fine
Battery: Tests above 28 volts
Anyone have any other suggestions?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459506#459506
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting CJ |
Regarding the shower of sparks, I have seen this problem many times over
the years where either an M14 or Huosai engine has become difficult to
start. One of the things I would definitely try is testing thestarting
coil/shower of sparksthis way and applies to both the Huosai and M14
engines. You will need another person to help you with this:
1 - Make sure the main air valve is off
2 - Deplete the air in the pneumatic system FORWARD of the main air
valve by squeezing the brake handle until you can no longer hear the
"swoosh" sound when you release the brake handle.
3 - With the mags off, remove the mag cover from the left mag. Then
remove the starting coil wire from the distributor cap by loosening the
staking screw on the underside of the cap closest to the center of the
distributor cap. Now gently pull out the starting coil wire.
4 - Next, have the person assisting you hold the starting coil wire with
a pair of _insulated pliers_ with the end of thewire about 1/2"-3/8"
away from any metal on the engine.
5 - In the cockpit, turn on the BATTERY and IGNITION switches and press
the START BUTTON. The engine will not rotate because you have depleted
the air in the systemthat would normally be injected into the air start
distributor and air injectors. Observe the spark from the starting coil
wire between the end of the wire and the metal/ground. It should
normally jump about 3/8-1/2". If it does notand you have to move the
wire closer to ground to get the spark to jump to ground, remove the
starting coil wire from starting coil and pull the wire out of its loom.
This wire is a 7mm twisted, metal core wire. You can sometimes find a
suitable length of 7 mm wire at a local small engine shop (lawn mower
and lawn tractor repair shop) or you can order it on-line at
http://www.mfgsupply.com/24-8775.html. Many times the original rubber
wire cover becomes brittle and cracks and thus arcs to ground inside of
the braided shield. If it arcs to ground inside the shield, then
obviously the spark from the starting coil will not reach the
distributor cap, rotor or spark plugs.
6 - Lastly, you can also open up the cover on the starting coil and find
the points. Sometimes these points willbuild a mound on one side. This
mound can be removed with a point file. There is also a small thumb
wheel which adjusts the pointgap for the maximum spark. You canadjust
for max spark while one person holds the starting coil wire close to
ground and turns the thumb wheel (you can do this on the CJ, but not the
52 because of the starting coil's location) and the other person in the
cockpit is pressing the START button, just like when you were testing
it. To accomplish this on the 52, one must remove the starting coil
"box" from the back side of the firewall andperform the adjustment of
the points on the bench. You will need a 24V battery on the bench to
test the starting coil. No other way to do iton the 52.
Hope this helps. MOST IMPORTANTLY, be certain to deplete the air in the
system with the main air valve off BEFORE you press the START button to
prevent any rotation of the engine/propeller.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 8/15/2016 6:37 AM, JL2A wrote:
>
> We have operated 6 different HS6As over the years and this one is by far the
hardest to start, when ambient temperatures are below 15C or so
>
> Primer: the little 'atomizer' on supercharger inlet may be blocked/missing
>
> Shower of sparks: it works, at least, as with magnetos at 0 the engine will still
fire. Could it be weak though? In need of overhaul perhaps?
>
> Carb: I don't know?! My instincts are it is not this as once it is running and
warm everything is fine
>
> Battery: Tests above 28 volts
>
> Anyone have any other suggestions?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459506#459506
>
>
Message 3
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Yak Folks,
Note: I don't have a CJ6 anymore.
But I know someone who just over temp'd his engine. For about 5 min the
CHTs in 4 cylinders were over 460F/420C and 2 reached 489F. The engine
is now running rough on the ground. He is not flying it until fixed.
So, what is the consensus? OH the whole thing? Replace the Cylinders?
Throw it in the trash and buy new?
Bear
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Question |
In my humble opinion as a European I believe that 460F is NOT 420C but: 238
degrees...that is a lot different than 420C... :-)
I have had that as well and it gave no problems what so ever. According to
our engineer what happens after a "real" high cilinder head temp is that the
valve sockets are severely damaged and an exceptional high consumption of
oil will be the result. If that is not the case have the compression checked
and fly on....assuming that the 238C is correct, which is not an exceptional
temp. There is no stronger engine than the M14P.
Fly safe.
Hans O.
Op 15-08-16 16:53, DaBear@damned.org <dabear@damned.org> schreef:
>
> Yak Folks,
>
>
> Note: I don't have a CJ6 anymore.
>
> But I know someone who just over temp'd his engine. For about 5 min the
> CHTs in 4 cylinders were over 460F/420C and 2 reached 489F. The engine
> is now running rough on the ground. He is not flying it until fixed.
>
> So, what is the consensus? OH the whole thing? Replace the Cylinders?
> Throw it in the trash and buy new?
>
>
> Bear
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Question |
yes, sorry mistype... 464F/240C
On 8/15/2016 11:15 AM, Hans Oortman wrote:
>
> In my humble opinion as a European I believe that 460F is NOT 420C but: 238
> degrees...that is a lot different than 420C... :-)
> I have had that as well and it gave no problems what so ever. According to
> our engineer what happens after a "real" high cilinder head temp is that the
> valve sockets are severely damaged and an exceptional high consumption of
> oil will be the result. If that is not the case have the compression checked
> and fly on....assuming that the 238C is correct, which is not an exceptional
> temp. There is no stronger engine than the M14P.
>
> Fly safe.
>
> Hans O.
>
>
> Op 15-08-16 16:53, DaBear@damned.org <dabear@damned.org> schreef:
>
>>
>> Yak Folks,
>>
>>
>> Note: I don't have a CJ6 anymore.
>>
>> But I know someone who just over temp'd his engine. For about 5 min the
>> CHTs in 4 cylinders were over 460F/420C and 2 reached 489F. The engine
>> is now running rough on the ground. He is not flying it until fixed.
>>
>> So, what is the consensus? OH the whole thing? Replace the Cylinders?
>> Throw it in the trash and buy new?
>>
>>
>> Bear
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Question |
Replace or overhaul the two high temp cylinders. If overhaul, ensure the
cyl. is checked for out of round, correct choke etc., and pistons NDT
inspected.
Five minutes is a very long time at 254 deg.C.
Operating range for the Huosai is 120 to 230 deg.C, normal cruise in the
range of 150 to 170, T/O and climb 170 to 200.
Unlike P&W, Huosai does not give a short term Max. allowable. The P&W
limit is 260.
Being Canadian I no longer recognize or understand that other strange (may I
say goofy?) means of describing temperature.
Cheers;
Walt
-----Original Message-----
From: DaBear@damned.org
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 7:53 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Engine Question
Yak Folks,
Note: I don't have a CJ6 anymore.
But I know someone who just over temp'd his engine. For about 5 min the
CHTs in 4 cylinders were over 460F/420C and 2 reached 489F. The engine
is now running rough on the ground. He is not flying it until fixed.
So, what is the consensus? OH the whole thing? Replace the Cylinders?
Throw it in the trash and buy new?
Bear
Message 7
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It is my understanding that the severe overtemp can cause the interference fit
between the aluminum head and the steel barrel to fail in the future. I recommend
replacing the cylinders. We have seen this in the past.
George
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Engine Question
Replace or overhaul the two high temp cylinders. If overhaul, ensure the
cyl. is checked for out of round, correct choke etc., and pistons NDT inspected.
Five minutes is a very long time at 254 deg.C.
Operating range for the Huosai is 120 to 230 deg.C, normal cruise in the
range of 150 to 170, T/O and climb 170 to 200.
Unlike P&W, Huosai does not give a short term Max. allowable. The P&W limit
is 260.
Being Canadian I no longer recognize or understand that other strange (may I say
goofy?) means of describing temperature.
Cheers;
Walt
-----Original Message-----
From: DaBear@damned.org
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 7:53 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Engine Question
Yak Folks,
Note: I don't have a CJ6 anymore.
But I know someone who just over temp'd his engine. For about 5 min the CHTs in
4 cylinders were over 460F/420C and 2 reached 489F. The engine is now running
rough on the ground. He is not flying it until fixed.
So, what is the consensus? OH the whole thing? Replace the Cylinders?
Throw it in the trash and buy new?
Bear
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Question |
I apologize Bear..I thought it concerned a M14P but you were talking about a
Housai....Forget what I said with exception of the conversion into
Centigrade... :-)
Hans O.
Op 15-08-16 16:53, DaBear@damned.org <dabear@damned.org> schreef:
>
> Yak Folks,
>
>
> Note: I don't have a CJ6 anymore.
>
> But I know someone who just over temp'd his engine. For about 5 min the
> CHTs in 4 cylinders were over 460F/420C and 2 reached 489F. The engine
> is now running rough on the ground. He is not flying it until fixed.
>
> So, what is the consensus? OH the whole thing? Replace the Cylinders?
> Throw it in the trash and buy new?
>
>
> Bear
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Hard Starting CJ |
This may not be the culprit, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to give the
spark plugs a thorough inspection & cleaning.
Again, not likely to be the main culprit, but I've found it a relatively
easy chore and freshly cleaned plugs will only help.
My 2 cents worth,
Justin
N280NC
On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 5:14 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> Regarding the shower of sparks, I have seen this problem many times over
> the years where either an M14 or Huosai engine has become difficult to
> start. One of the things I would definitely try is testing thestarting
> coil/shower of sparksthis way and applies to both the Huosai and M14
> engines. You will need another person to help you with this:
> 1 - Make sure the main air valve is off
> 2 - Deplete the air in the pneumatic system FORWARD of the main air valve
> by squeezing the brake handle until you can no longer hear the "swoosh"
> sound when you release the brake handle.
> 3 - With the mags off, remove the mag cover from the left mag. Then
> remove the starting coil wire from the distributor cap by loosening the
> staking screw on the underside of the cap closest to the center of the
> distributor cap. Now gently pull out the starting coil wire.
> 4 - Next, have the person assisting you hold the starting coil wire with
a
> pair of _insulated pliers_ with the end of thewire about 1/2"-3/8" away
> from any metal on the engine.
> 5 - In the cockpit, turn on the BATTERY and IGNITION switches and press
> the START BUTTON. The engine will not rotate because you have depleted th
e
> air in the systemthat would normally be injected into the air start
> distributor and air injectors. Observe the spark from the starting coil
> wire between the end of the wire and the metal/ground. It should normally
> jump about 3/8-1/2". If it does notand you have to move the wire closer t
o
> ground to get the spark to jump to ground, remove the starting coil wire
> from starting coil and pull the wire out of its loom. This wire is a 7mm
> twisted, metal core wire. You can sometimes find a suitable length of 7
mm
> wire at a local small engine shop (lawn mower and lawn tractor repair sho
p)
> or you can order it on-line at http://www.mfgsupply.com/24-8775.html.
> Many times the original rubber wire cover becomes brittle and cracks and
> thus arcs to ground inside of the braided shield. If it arcs to ground
> inside the shield, then obviously the spark from the starting coil will n
ot
> reach the distributor cap, rotor or spark plugs.
> 6 - Lastly, you can also open up the cover on the starting coil and find
> the points. Sometimes these points willbuild a mound on one side. This
> mound can be removed with a point file. There is also a small thumb wheel
> which adjusts the pointgap for the maximum spark. You canadjust for max
> spark while one person holds the starting coil wire close to ground and
> turns the thumb wheel (you can do this on the CJ, but not the 52 because
of
> the starting coil's location) and the other person in the cockpit is
> pressing the START button, just like when you were testing it. To
> accomplish this on the 52, one must remove the starting coil "box" from t
he
> back side of the firewall andperform the adjustment of the points on the
> bench. You will need a 24V battery on the bench to test the starting coil
.
> No other way to do iton the 52.
>
> Hope this helps. MOST IMPORTANTLY, be certain to deplete the air in the
> system with the main air valve off BEFORE you press the START button to
> prevent any rotation of the engine/propeller.
> Dennis
>
> A. Dennis Savarese
> 334-546-8182 (mobile)
> www.yak-52.com
> Skype - Yakguy1
>
> On 8/15/2016 6:37 AM, JL2A wrote:
>
>>
>> We have operated 6 different HS6As over the years and this one is by far
>> the hardest to start, when ambient temperatures are below 15=C3=82=C2=B0
C or so
>>
>>
>> Primer: the little 'atomizer' on supercharger inlet may be blocked/missi
ng
>>
>> Shower of sparks: it works, at least, as with magnetos at 0 the engine
>> will still fire. Could it be weak though? In need of overhaul perhaps?
>>
>> Carb: I don't know?! My instincts are it is not this as once it is
>> running and warm everything is fine
>>
>> Battery: Tests above 28 volts
>>
>> Anyone have any other suggestions?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459506#459506
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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